13 ms·

Daydream Is Google’s Android-Powered VR Platform

183 points by T-A 10y ago

drzaiusapelord 10y ago
What's the usage scenario here? I'm just not seeing mobile VR as a usable thing. Does Google expect people to carry goggles around everywhere they go like they do their phone? Worse, the crummy graphics and low framerate in the video seems like a recipe for VR sickness. I have a Vive at home and its wonderful for gaming, if a bit undercook and still unable to deliver a pixel density that makes me happy (Vive2 perhaps?), but I can't imagine a phone remotely competing with that still underpowered experience. I can see AR projection built into one's existing glasses a la Google Glass or perhaps what MS is doing with AR, but VR is a totally different beast. Comfort, performance, fov, pixel density, graphics quality, audio quality, "presence," etc really matter. I just don't see Google pulling that off and even if they got close, who exactly is clamoring for VR phones? I suspect Google has just become too mobile centric and is shoehorning in whatever is hot into its Android line and seeing what sticks (instead of refining Android to be a better experience it seems). I'm not sure if that's wise. VR seems to be more at home attached to a powerful computer in a safe indoor space where people can feel free to move around without injury and get a high quality VR experience. You shouldn't be doing VR at the bus stop.
- gshulegaard 10y ago
  For me, I would be most excited about the lecture applications. For example, what if every TED talk had a VR broadcast so you could slap on your goggles and "attend" it. This goes for conference key notes or college lectures. Anything where Physical attendance is a barrier and not a key component of the experience I think would benefit from a lightweight VR experience like this.
  - libraryatnight 10y ago
    BlizzCon etc virtual tickets just got a lot more interesting in your scenario :)
    - GFischer 10y ago
      Well, the entire pay-per-view field really :) , NBA finals are already on VR, imagine that for all other sports. They're not ready yet: http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/28/a-live-nba-game-is-cool-in-vr-but-dont-sell-off-your-season-tickets-yet/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/28/a-live-nba-game-is-cool-in-... but it's definitely coming.
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    Why not just use a real VR headset then? When the prices come down on this stuff it'll just be seen as another peripheral for your computer. It won't be this enthusiast toy. Are you walking around with your VR mask everywhere you go just in case you see a TED talk you like? That seems incredibly inconvenient. Even a low profile mask is a fairly bulky item. I think attaching a phone to your face is going to give a subpar experience compared to a dedicated device. I still don't see a use case here that's going to get people excited. Especially after the largely milquetoast reception smartwatches have gotten. VR masks are about 1,000x more geeky than those. Image conscious people aren't going to be putting them on their face to consume content in public.
    - ctdonath 10y ago
      For the same reason people bought iPods instead of audiophile stereos: yes, the quality was inferior, but there is a great value to "here, now". Just minutes ago a co-worker grabbed the office Cardboard VR and slapped in his phone, and watched some of the Google I/O keynote. Cheap. Easy. Portable. Low res, but there he was virtually at the presentation. People will get used to the oddity of VR just as they did with cell phones, hands free ear pieces, SIRI, coffee shop computing, etc and will get over self driving cars. My Dodo Case Cardboard VR folds up and fits nicely in my messenger bag. And I like my Apple Watch, thank you very much. Yours is a naysaying template I've heard for nearly every new technology for decades, and here we are with most all those things now ubiquitous.
      - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
        >eople bought iPods instead of audiophile stereos iPods fit in pockets. VR headsets don't. Did you even bother to look at the Google reference design? Its a huge headset and controller. Those aren't convenient mobile things. They're not remotely portable like a phone or ipod is.
        ctdonath 10y ago
        Read the rest of my post. They still have a place without having to be tied to a computer. Like I said, we have a Cardboard at the office, same dimensions you object to, easy to have around, easy to share, cheap, no dedicated computer needed. There are more phones in the office capable of using the head mount than there are people. Need more head mounts? cheap order from Amazon, arrive in two days. No hassle of sharing a computer for it, just pop in your phone. And like I said, some units do fold up convenient for travel.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    > For example, what if every TED talk had a VR broadcast so you could slap on your goggles and "attend" it. No thanks. I currently would rather read a paper than youtube a lecture. I would surely rather read a paper than strap a $600 device to my head.
    - gshulegaard 10y ago
      Having completed my undergrad degree without attending most lectures by just by reading text books and papers, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the value of a lecture and a clear and concise presentation on a complex topic. Granted at my university, many of the lecturers were un-inspired/English as a second language, but there are presenters which can provide clarity and communicate understanding through lecture. One of my favorite presenters, for example, is David Beazley who has several presentations/examinations on the Python GIL I found very useful. As another Python example, I also found Andrew Montalenti's overview of multi-processing in Python quite enjoyable as well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVBLF0ohcrE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVBLF0ohcrE). Finally, Sal Khan was such an inspired presenter that he founded Khan Academy (https://www.khanacademy.org/ https://www.khanacademy.org/) based on his great success teaching mathematics to his younger relatives and their classmates through YouTube videos.
  - dave2000 10y ago
    How is a vr Ted talk different from watching it on YouTube? Aren't they essentially 2d events?
    - gshulegaard 10y ago
      I find one of the biggest challenges of YouTube being the editing between presentations slides and videos of the presenter. Being able to look at a stage as if you were in attendance from the audience would alleviate this challenge greatly (at least for me). This has utility for note taking as well.
      - toast0 10y ago
        Having used a gear VR (briefly), I would not want to try to read text from a slide displayed in it. It would be better to have the video feed of the presenter and a video (or text!) feed of the slides and be able to show both and maybe switch between them -- i could imagine showing one in a big rectangle and the other in a small rectangle. I'm pretty sure I've watched corporate internal presentations with this style of UI -- it's quite useful.
      - tiziano88 10y ago
        Well you don't need VR to solve that problem for sure. Either better editing or just recording slides and presenter separately and allow the viewer to switch between them (or see both at the same time) on a regular display would completely solve the issue.
- drcode 10y ago
  80% of the Vive experience at 1/10th the cost.
  - 6x9equals42 10y ago
    Screen wise maybe, but I would value positional tracking at more than 20%. Not being able to lean in for a closer look (much less move around) is a big immersion breaker on the GearVR
- bkmn 10y ago
  Yes, but VR needs something that's better than Google Cardboard, but more open than GearVR. I expect Android VR to become the "lowest common denominator VR experience".
  - delphinius81 10y ago
    The fact that there is a controller for input instead of having to tap my forehead will increase usability a ton. Though I hope they provide a way to clip the controller to the HMD when not using it.
- vthallam 10y ago
  Guess you are only thinking in the perspective of a power user who enjoys high quality games on the VR. But, Google wants to make this a utility by having one connected to your phone and let them enjoy the Youtube VR content, small games, netflix etc. I don't think carrying a small headset with me a problem and hope it evolve into a foldable/compact stuff.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- detaro 10y ago
  People who want to play with it, but don't want to spend 800-2000 dollars on a "real" VR setup?
- vikascoder 10y ago
  Augmented Reality headsets will be the "every day use" thing. After trying out Microsoft Hololens, I am very very impressed with what these kind of headsets can bring to the table.
  - shostack 10y ago
    Not only that, but as technology improves and miniaturizes, I fully expect the distinction between "VR devices" and "AR devices" to disappear. In the future we will be able to switch between them at will and the worlds will blur. Imagine walking through an AR doorway overlaid in your home, where you can see a beach on the other side. You walk through and magically are on said beach. You turn around and the door is gone--the illusion is complete. More realistically, I see AR increasingly taking the form of your "main screen" with notifications, browser windows, etc. all accessible from there and just taking up visual space in your FOV. If you decide you want to focus on work or engage in another more immersive experience (movie watching, gaming, etc.), you slip into VR mode and suddenly the distractions are gone. Again, lots needs to happen to get us there, but I see the blending of the devices as inevitable once the form factor is popularized. My guess is it will take something as sexy and revolutionary as the first iPhone to get this to go mainstream since you are right in that most people will not carry a giant headset around.
    - orangecat 10y ago
      More realistically, I see AR increasingly taking the form of your "main screen" with notifications, browser windows, etc. all accessible from there and just taking up visual space in your FOV. If you decide you want to focus on work or engage in another more immersive experience (movie watching, gaming, etc.), you slip into VR mode and suddenly the distractions are gone. Yes. The games and immersive videos are cool, but I'm even more looking forward to replacing almost all dedicated displays with a pair of normal-looking glasses.
- mcantelon 10y ago
  Mobile VR wins with cost, rapid hardware iteration, portability. VR isn't a totally separate realm from AR... "mixed reality" is a buzzword about mixing the two. As for who's clamouring for VR phones, Samsung's Gear VR is doing very well (and Samsung mobile hardware is already used in Oculus products).
delphinius81 10y ago
Was anyone able to glean from the video if the controllers/HMD provided positional tracking, or just orientation tracking? Either way, a more open mobile VR platform sounds great (though a little disappointed in that Daydream feels like an "us-too" announcement). I was hoping they would announce solving positional tracking on a mobile device. Nothing all that earth shattering here at the moment. :/
- JacobKyle 10y ago
  It's definitely not positionally tracked, looks like it's just a nice imu + touchpad.
  - delphinius81 10y ago
    That's what I figured. Still better than tapping my forehead on the GearVR.
  - wuliwong 10y ago
    I don't know much about this space, how do you know it's definitely not positionally tracked? My reason is that they didn't talk about it, so I figure it isn't but I'm not certain.
    - JacobKyle 10y ago
      None of the controlled objects in VR responded to any of the positional movement. You can see that the wand / pole is just rotating around a center-point attached to the user. Positional tracking is a really challenging problem with a lot of limitations. If they were using computer vision to track the controller it would need to be held within the device's FOV and have identifiable elements such as a marker or LEDs. There are other approaches, but nothing I've seen that would work well on an HMD. I've been working with AR/VR for the better part of a decade, and controller tracking's come up several times. I can tell from my own work that the device they're showing off is IMU only. It's too bad, something equivalent to the Vive controllers for mobile VR would be fantastic. And at the end of the day - you're right. If it was spatially tracked then they definitely would have mentioned it.
JacobKyle 10y ago
The headset doesn't look different from other mobile VR devices. I was hoping/expecting to see something with tango integration for head tracking.
- dharma1 10y ago
  Perhaps not ready for prime time yet, hopefully later this year
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  I wonder if the headsets will ever get as small as a normal pair of glasses (or goggles)
  - KnightHawk3 10y ago
    I think due to how optics works the screen must be a little bit away from the face, most of the bulk is empty space.
mmanfrin 10y ago
We're less than 2 months away from the first real releases of VR equipment and already the ecosystem is fractured in to at least 4 different platforms/SDKs/styles: Oculus, SteamVR/OpenVR/Vive, Google Daydream, Playstation VR. I fear the fracturing will make total adoption lower and slower, as developers will have to choose sides or spend way more time developing for all platforms.
- amelius 10y ago
  Actually, I expected to hear more about VR after the releases. Could it be that the hype is over before it began?
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Or its a bunch of ideas thrown out there.. maybe 1 will stick and 3 will die. Sucks for early adopters with dead hardware, but if we in 2016 have the tech to make this work, our odds of hitting the money are pretty high right now.
  - dave2000 10y ago
    That's what always happens. I'm glad those brave early adopters are out there, making difficult and expensive decisions and then regretting it so I don't have to.
    - monk_e_boy 10y ago
      Ignore the hype. Save your cash. Wait for version 2.0 You'd think we would have learned this by now, but I'm still way too excited about the vive.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    The problem though is that the company able to push their product to win the market and the company with the best product probably won't be the same.
- michaelbuckbee 10y ago
  The VR Ecosystem looks a lot like the console ecosystem, which has dealt with the problem by adopting SDKs like Unity or Unreal.
jimrandomh 10y ago
Have they said anything about latency or asynchronous timewarp? It's a bit too technical to make it into end-user marketing content, but for game developers ATW is a huge deal and it's an area where Cardboard was lagging way behind.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Well they have a certified device sticker... that sticker requires certain latencies. They did not reveal the numbers, but in theory that should be a big step.
  - pritambaral 10y ago
    I remember them mentioning in the keynote something about 20ms latency wrt. Daydream
- mtgx 10y ago
  No, but I think Imagination hinted at that in its new post: http://blog.imgtec.com/powervr/presence-in-virtual-reality-and-how-powervr-gpus-can-help http://blog.imgtec.com/powervr/presence-in-virtual-reality-a...
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  The potential to improve Android's audio latency is the main reason I'm interested in this latest development, could end up having positive knock on effects for the Linux audio in general too.
  - sirtaj 10y ago
    In this specific case, it's not Linux here that's the problem but Android itself. The kernel has been capable of near-millisecond audio latency for years, even more so with an RT-patched kernel. Google just hasn't cared much about audio latency so far, and their VM probably makes things worse.
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
DonHopkins 10y ago
>"A Daydream home screen will let people access apps and content while using the headset; an early look shows a whimsical forest landscape with the slightly low-poly look that Google has used in Cardboard apps." Google Bob! ;)
gregmac 10y ago
Wonder if they'll rename the screensaver in Android TV, also called 'Daydream'? [1] [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.backdrop https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...
- yohui 10y ago
  All Android devices had "Daydream" screensavers (Settings > Display > Daydream). In the latest Android N preview, it's been renamed to simply "Screen saver".
  - BHSPitMonkey 10y ago
    Going to be awfully confusing for consumers searching for "daydream" looking for VR content or screen savers and finding both: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=daydream&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=daydream&c=apps
    - spbaar 10y ago
      On the bright side, my daydream app will get some accidental installs!
- wvenable 10y ago
  I assumed they called in Daydream because they already had a trademark for that name. Like how Microsoft re-appropriated the Surface trademark.
moron4hire 10y ago
It's kind of disheartening to see how much negativity gets heaped towards VR on HN lately.
mcantelon 10y ago
TLDR: Google's following in Samsung's Gear VR footsteps with OS optimizations/additional sensors in devices to improve VR experience.
Lionleaf 10y ago
This is a big deal. It basically adds the two factors that made GearVR better than cardboard to any VR ready Android phone: OS integration and better IMU sensors. It basically puts high quality (but not cutting edge) VR in everyones pocket, all you need is a dumb holder with lenses. My prediction is that this will play a huge role in mass adoption of VR!
- joeyrideout 10y ago
  I completely agree. I thought Samsung/Oculus had gotten it right with the GearVR, but the performance improvements from a native, full-stack integration of VR functionality is giving me goosebumps. They even have a new spec which multiple vendors can get behind. I'm going to start researching this platform now and will invest my time as a developer in it as soon as possible. I predict that this will be a good platform to get behind. Perhaps I'm being naive, but in a space with as much market potential as VR, this vision has me incredibly excited. edit: One more thought: The hardware that they showed in the demo appears to be a step ahead of GearVR in usability as well. The headstrap isn't painfully assembled (my GearVR unit falls apart half the time I put it on) and it comes with input controllers. GearVR is woefully lacking in input options out of the box.
whatnotests 10y ago
God seriously VR right now is so lame. By now it should be way, way better. Whoever is driving this shit off the cliff - please just stop while you're ahead, go back to designing hospital websites or whatever it was before you tried your hand at this, and let someone else do the whole newfangled "VR" thing instead.
- dang 10y ago
  Your comments have unfortunately been breaking the HN guidelines quite a bit. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all.
  - whatnotests 10y ago
    So...only cheering is allowed from the peanut gallery?

183 points by T-A 10y ago

What's the usage scenario here? I'm just not seeing mobile VR as a usable thing. Does Google expect people to carry goggles around everywhere they go like they do their phone? Worse, the crummy graphics and low framerate in the video seems like a recipe for VR sickness. I have a Vive at home and its wonderful for gaming, if a bit undercook and still unable to deliver a pixel density that makes me happy (Vive2 perhaps?), but I can't imagine a phone remotely competing with that still underpowered experience. I can see AR projection built into one's existing glasses a la Google Glass or perhaps what MS is doing with AR, but VR is a totally different beast. Comfort, performance, fov, pixel density, graphics quality, audio quality, "presence," etc really matter. I just don't see Google pulling that off and even if they got close, who exactly is clamoring for VR phones? I suspect Google has just become too mobile centric and is shoehorning in whatever is hot into its Android line and seeing what sticks (instead of refining Android to be a better experience it seems). I'm not sure if that's wise. VR seems to be more at home attached to a powerful computer in a safe indoor space where people can feel free to move around without injury and get a high quality VR experience. You shouldn't be doing VR at the bus stop.

gshulegaard 10y ago
For me, I would be most excited about the lecture applications. For example, what if every TED talk had a VR broadcast so you could slap on your goggles and "attend" it. This goes for conference key notes or college lectures. Anything where Physical attendance is a barrier and not a key component of the experience I think would benefit from a lightweight VR experience like this.
- libraryatnight 10y ago
  BlizzCon etc virtual tickets just got a lot more interesting in your scenario :)
  - GFischer 10y ago
    Well, the entire pay-per-view field really :) , NBA finals are already on VR, imagine that for all other sports. They're not ready yet: http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/28/a-live-nba-game-is-cool-in-vr-but-dont-sell-off-your-season-tickets-yet/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/28/a-live-nba-game-is-cool-in-... but it's definitely coming.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  Why not just use a real VR headset then? When the prices come down on this stuff it'll just be seen as another peripheral for your computer. It won't be this enthusiast toy. Are you walking around with your VR mask everywhere you go just in case you see a TED talk you like? That seems incredibly inconvenient. Even a low profile mask is a fairly bulky item. I think attaching a phone to your face is going to give a subpar experience compared to a dedicated device. I still don't see a use case here that's going to get people excited. Especially after the largely milquetoast reception smartwatches have gotten. VR masks are about 1,000x more geeky than those. Image conscious people aren't going to be putting them on their face to consume content in public.
  - ctdonath 10y ago
    For the same reason people bought iPods instead of audiophile stereos: yes, the quality was inferior, but there is a great value to "here, now". Just minutes ago a co-worker grabbed the office Cardboard VR and slapped in his phone, and watched some of the Google I/O keynote. Cheap. Easy. Portable. Low res, but there he was virtually at the presentation. People will get used to the oddity of VR just as they did with cell phones, hands free ear pieces, SIRI, coffee shop computing, etc and will get over self driving cars. My Dodo Case Cardboard VR folds up and fits nicely in my messenger bag. And I like my Apple Watch, thank you very much. Yours is a naysaying template I've heard for nearly every new technology for decades, and here we are with most all those things now ubiquitous.
    - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
      >eople bought iPods instead of audiophile stereos iPods fit in pockets. VR headsets don't. Did you even bother to look at the Google reference design? Its a huge headset and controller. Those aren't convenient mobile things. They're not remotely portable like a phone or ipod is.
      - ctdonath 10y ago
        Read the rest of my post. They still have a place without having to be tied to a computer. Like I said, we have a Cardboard at the office, same dimensions you object to, easy to have around, easy to share, cheap, no dedicated computer needed. There are more phones in the office capable of using the head mount than there are people. Need more head mounts? cheap order from Amazon, arrive in two days. No hassle of sharing a computer for it, just pop in your phone. And like I said, some units do fold up convenient for travel.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  > For example, what if every TED talk had a VR broadcast so you could slap on your goggles and "attend" it. No thanks. I currently would rather read a paper than youtube a lecture. I would surely rather read a paper than strap a $600 device to my head.
  - gshulegaard 10y ago
    Having completed my undergrad degree without attending most lectures by just by reading text books and papers, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the value of a lecture and a clear and concise presentation on a complex topic. Granted at my university, many of the lecturers were un-inspired/English as a second language, but there are presenters which can provide clarity and communicate understanding through lecture. One of my favorite presenters, for example, is David Beazley who has several presentations/examinations on the Python GIL I found very useful. As another Python example, I also found Andrew Montalenti's overview of multi-processing in Python quite enjoyable as well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVBLF0ohcrE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVBLF0ohcrE). Finally, Sal Khan was such an inspired presenter that he founded Khan Academy (https://www.khanacademy.org/ https://www.khanacademy.org/) based on his great success teaching mathematics to his younger relatives and their classmates through YouTube videos.
- dave2000 10y ago
  How is a vr Ted talk different from watching it on YouTube? Aren't they essentially 2d events?
  - gshulegaard 10y ago
    I find one of the biggest challenges of YouTube being the editing between presentations slides and videos of the presenter. Being able to look at a stage as if you were in attendance from the audience would alleviate this challenge greatly (at least for me). This has utility for note taking as well.
    - toast0 10y ago
      Having used a gear VR (briefly), I would not want to try to read text from a slide displayed in it. It would be better to have the video feed of the presenter and a video (or text!) feed of the slides and be able to show both and maybe switch between them -- i could imagine showing one in a big rectangle and the other in a small rectangle. I'm pretty sure I've watched corporate internal presentations with this style of UI -- it's quite useful.
    - tiziano88 10y ago
      Well you don't need VR to solve that problem for sure. Either better editing or just recording slides and presenter separately and allow the viewer to switch between them (or see both at the same time) on a regular display would completely solve the issue.
drcode 10y ago
80% of the Vive experience at 1/10th the cost.
- 6x9equals42 10y ago
  Screen wise maybe, but I would value positional tracking at more than 20%. Not being able to lean in for a closer look (much less move around) is a big immersion breaker on the GearVR
bkmn 10y ago
Yes, but VR needs something that's better than Google Cardboard, but more open than GearVR. I expect Android VR to become the "lowest common denominator VR experience".
- delphinius81 10y ago
  The fact that there is a controller for input instead of having to tap my forehead will increase usability a ton. Though I hope they provide a way to clip the controller to the HMD when not using it.
vthallam 10y ago
Guess you are only thinking in the perspective of a power user who enjoys high quality games on the VR. But, Google wants to make this a utility by having one connected to your phone and let them enjoy the Youtube VR content, small games, netflix etc. I don't think carrying a small headset with me a problem and hope it evolve into a foldable/compact stuff.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
detaro 10y ago
People who want to play with it, but don't want to spend 800-2000 dollars on a "real" VR setup?
vikascoder 10y ago
Augmented Reality headsets will be the "every day use" thing. After trying out Microsoft Hololens, I am very very impressed with what these kind of headsets can bring to the table.
- shostack 10y ago
  Not only that, but as technology improves and miniaturizes, I fully expect the distinction between "VR devices" and "AR devices" to disappear. In the future we will be able to switch between them at will and the worlds will blur. Imagine walking through an AR doorway overlaid in your home, where you can see a beach on the other side. You walk through and magically are on said beach. You turn around and the door is gone--the illusion is complete. More realistically, I see AR increasingly taking the form of your "main screen" with notifications, browser windows, etc. all accessible from there and just taking up visual space in your FOV. If you decide you want to focus on work or engage in another more immersive experience (movie watching, gaming, etc.), you slip into VR mode and suddenly the distractions are gone. Again, lots needs to happen to get us there, but I see the blending of the devices as inevitable once the form factor is popularized. My guess is it will take something as sexy and revolutionary as the first iPhone to get this to go mainstream since you are right in that most people will not carry a giant headset around.
  - orangecat 10y ago
    More realistically, I see AR increasingly taking the form of your "main screen" with notifications, browser windows, etc. all accessible from there and just taking up visual space in your FOV. If you decide you want to focus on work or engage in another more immersive experience (movie watching, gaming, etc.), you slip into VR mode and suddenly the distractions are gone. Yes. The games and immersive videos are cool, but I'm even more looking forward to replacing almost all dedicated displays with a pair of normal-looking glasses.
mcantelon 10y ago
Mobile VR wins with cost, rapid hardware iteration, portability. VR isn't a totally separate realm from AR... "mixed reality" is a buzzword about mixing the two. As for who's clamouring for VR phones, Samsung's Gear VR is doing very well (and Samsung mobile hardware is already used in Oculus products).

delphinius81 10y ago

Was anyone able to glean from the video if the controllers/HMD provided positional tracking, or just orientation tracking? Either way, a more open mobile VR platform sounds great (though a little disappointed in that Daydream feels like an "us-too" announcement). I was hoping they would announce solving positional tracking on a mobile device. Nothing all that earth shattering here at the moment. :/

JacobKyle 10y ago
It's definitely not positionally tracked, looks like it's just a nice imu + touchpad.
- delphinius81 10y ago
  That's what I figured. Still better than tapping my forehead on the GearVR.
- wuliwong 10y ago
  I don't know much about this space, how do you know it's definitely not positionally tracked? My reason is that they didn't talk about it, so I figure it isn't but I'm not certain.
  - JacobKyle 10y ago
    None of the controlled objects in VR responded to any of the positional movement. You can see that the wand / pole is just rotating around a center-point attached to the user. Positional tracking is a really challenging problem with a lot of limitations. If they were using computer vision to track the controller it would need to be held within the device's FOV and have identifiable elements such as a marker or LEDs. There are other approaches, but nothing I've seen that would work well on an HMD. I've been working with AR/VR for the better part of a decade, and controller tracking's come up several times. I can tell from my own work that the device they're showing off is IMU only. It's too bad, something equivalent to the Vive controllers for mobile VR would be fantastic. And at the end of the day - you're right. If it was spatially tracked then they definitely would have mentioned it.

JacobKyle 10y ago

The headset doesn't look different from other mobile VR devices. I was hoping/expecting to see something with tango integration for head tracking.

dharma1 10y ago
Perhaps not ready for prime time yet, hopefully later this year
monk_e_boy 10y ago
I wonder if the headsets will ever get as small as a normal pair of glasses (or goggles)
- KnightHawk3 10y ago
  I think due to how optics works the screen must be a little bit away from the face, most of the bulk is empty space.

mmanfrin 10y ago

We're less than 2 months away from the first real releases of VR equipment and already the ecosystem is fractured in to at least 4 different platforms/SDKs/styles: Oculus, SteamVR/OpenVR/Vive, Google Daydream, Playstation VR. I fear the fracturing will make total adoption lower and slower, as developers will have to choose sides or spend way more time developing for all platforms.

amelius 10y ago
Actually, I expected to hear more about VR after the releases. Could it be that the hype is over before it began?
brianwawok 10y ago
Or its a bunch of ideas thrown out there.. maybe 1 will stick and 3 will die. Sucks for early adopters with dead hardware, but if we in 2016 have the tech to make this work, our odds of hitting the money are pretty high right now.
- dave2000 10y ago
  That's what always happens. I'm glad those brave early adopters are out there, making difficult and expensive decisions and then regretting it so I don't have to.
  - monk_e_boy 10y ago
    Ignore the hype. Save your cash. Wait for version 2.0 You'd think we would have learned this by now, but I'm still way too excited about the vive.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  The problem though is that the company able to push their product to win the market and the company with the best product probably won't be the same.
michaelbuckbee 10y ago
The VR Ecosystem looks a lot like the console ecosystem, which has dealt with the problem by adopting SDKs like Unity or Unreal.

jimrandomh 10y ago

Have they said anything about latency or asynchronous timewarp? It's a bit too technical to make it into end-user marketing content, but for game developers ATW is a huge deal and it's an area where Cardboard was lagging way behind.

brianwawok 10y ago
Well they have a certified device sticker... that sticker requires certain latencies. They did not reveal the numbers, but in theory that should be a big step.
- pritambaral 10y ago
  I remember them mentioning in the keynote something about 20ms latency wrt. Daydream
mtgx 10y ago
No, but I think Imagination hinted at that in its new post: http://blog.imgtec.com/powervr/presence-in-virtual-reality-and-how-powervr-gpus-can-help http://blog.imgtec.com/powervr/presence-in-virtual-reality-a...
ZenoArrow 10y ago
The potential to improve Android's audio latency is the main reason I'm interested in this latest development, could end up having positive knock on effects for the Linux audio in general too.
- sirtaj 10y ago
  In this specific case, it's not Linux here that's the problem but Android itself. The kernel has been capable of near-millisecond audio latency for years, even more so with an RT-patched kernel. Google just hasn't cared much about audio latency so far, and their VM probably makes things worse.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago

DonHopkins 10y ago

>"A Daydream home screen will let people access apps and content while using the headset; an early look shows a whimsical forest landscape with the slightly low-poly look that Google has used in Cardboard apps." Google Bob! ;)

gregmac 10y ago

Wonder if they'll rename the screensaver in Android TV, also called 'Daydream'? [1] [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.backdrop https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

yohui 10y ago
All Android devices had "Daydream" screensavers (Settings > Display > Daydream). In the latest Android N preview, it's been renamed to simply "Screen saver".
- BHSPitMonkey 10y ago
  Going to be awfully confusing for consumers searching for "daydream" looking for VR content or screen savers and finding both: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=daydream&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=daydream&c=apps
  - spbaar 10y ago
    On the bright side, my daydream app will get some accidental installs!
wvenable 10y ago
I assumed they called in Daydream because they already had a trademark for that name. Like how Microsoft re-appropriated the Surface trademark.

moron4hire 10y ago

It's kind of disheartening to see how much negativity gets heaped towards VR on HN lately.

mcantelon 10y ago

TLDR: Google's following in Samsung's Gear VR footsteps with OS optimizations/additional sensors in devices to improve VR experience.

Lionleaf 10y ago

This is a big deal. It basically adds the two factors that made GearVR better than cardboard to any VR ready Android phone: OS integration and better IMU sensors. It basically puts high quality (but not cutting edge) VR in everyones pocket, all you need is a dumb holder with lenses. My prediction is that this will play a huge role in mass adoption of VR!

joeyrideout 10y ago
I completely agree. I thought Samsung/Oculus had gotten it right with the GearVR, but the performance improvements from a native, full-stack integration of VR functionality is giving me goosebumps. They even have a new spec which multiple vendors can get behind. I'm going to start researching this platform now and will invest my time as a developer in it as soon as possible. I predict that this will be a good platform to get behind. Perhaps I'm being naive, but in a space with as much market potential as VR, this vision has me incredibly excited. edit: One more thought: The hardware that they showed in the demo appears to be a step ahead of GearVR in usability as well. The headstrap isn't painfully assembled (my GearVR unit falls apart half the time I put it on) and it comes with input controllers. GearVR is woefully lacking in input options out of the box.

whatnotests 10y ago

God seriously VR right now is so lame. By now it should be way, way better. Whoever is driving this shit off the cliff - please just stop while you're ahead, go back to designing hospital websites or whatever it was before you tried your hand at this, and let someone else do the whole newfangled "VR" thing instead.

dang 10y ago
Your comments have unfortunately been breaking the HN guidelines quite a bit. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all.
- whatnotests 10y ago
  So...only cheering is allowed from the peanut gallery?