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Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router
- xd1936 11y agoThere's also a contest going on to win one, if you can think of a creative way to use the new IFTTT integration. http://blog.ifttt.com/post/143084444158/onhub-on-ifttt http://blog.ifttt.com/post/143084444158/onhub-on-ifttt
- rdegges 11y agoOnHub is one of the best routers I've ever owned. I've been buying custom router hardware for years -- I even went as far as building my own OpenBSD / PFsense router way back when, but nothing I've ever built (or bought!) has given me the same reliability / stability / speed as the OnHub. I'm seriously impressed with it. Also: the OnHub management app for mobile is AMAZING. It is so cool. Awesome product. Really great to see them put more effort into it and support integrations with IFTTT :D
- thrownaway2424 11y agoI haven't seen my OnHub since I turned it on last year. This puts it well ahead of all other wifi access points I have owned.
- jhoechtl 11y agoI haven't seen my Asus ac68 ever since. Reading these comments all the way down leaves the impression as the hefty overpriced OnHub is the only reliable wifi router on earth.
- semi-extrinsic 11y agoI haven't seen my $50 Buffalo N300 since I bought it, flashed and configured dd-wrt on it about 2 years ago.
- thrownaway2424 11y agoYour N300 is not getting security updates, but my OnHub is.
- semi-extrinsic 11y agoPray tell, security updates for what? My router has all WAN-side management features etc. turned off, WPS is turned off and it has a long random WPA passphrase. Unless someone breaks into my apartment, there just isn't a significant potential for security risks that I'm aware of.
- delroth 11y agoUnless you also disable execution of Javascript on all the devices that connect to your network (including your phones, set-top boxes, etc.), these devices can be used to attack your router from the LAN. Just use Javascript to autosubmit a form with action="http://192.168.1.1/exploitable/endpoint/" http://192.168.1.1/exploitable/endpoint/" (you can autodetect the IP, look for Javascript port scanners on Google) and you're in. And before you say that DD-WRT is not $WEIRD_CHINESE_BRAND and obviously doesn't have such vulnerabilities on its HTTP interface that can be accessed without auth, see https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-9341/product_id-16564/Dd-wrt-Dd-wrt.html https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-9341... for some real examples, including "getting root by sending an HTTP query that doesn't require any authentication". In fact, for that remote root exploit, disabling Javascript execution wouldn't even help that much, because it can be triggered through e.g. <img src="..."/> on any HTML page you visit (with some guessing required for the IP address, but there are only so many IPs people commonly use for their gateway).
- shiftpgdn 11y agoDD-WRT allows you to set access control lists. A simple protection would be only allow device with X MAC address to see the admin page(s). That device could be a virtual machine that only exists to manage the router.
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- stordoff 11y agoSame here - Asus RT-AC68U running DD-WRT has a current uptime >100 days and noticed no problems with it during that. The only downside is lack of auto-updates, but for my setup I'm not too concerned about that (WAN-side management features are disabled, and is behind another router anyway; occasional manual updates mostly mitigate LAN-side attacks [and web UI is usually disabled which prevents most of them anyway])
- cmrdporcupine 11y agoThanks. I work on the iOS mobile app, it's nice to hear positive feedback. Out of curiosity, are you using Android or iOS?
- rdegges 11y agoUsing the Android app on my Nexus 6p. Absolutely love it. Please pass along kudos to the Android / onHub teams! <33
- untog 11y agoCurious: what do you do with the management app? I have an Apple Airport thing and had a similar experience - years of buying cheap routers then suddenly I had one that "just works". To the point that I haven't had to open/use the administration panel in an absolute age.
- potatolicious 11y agoThe management app is a pretty neat way to set up a router - it certainly beats futzing around with a shitty HTML UI. Other than that I've found it useful for testing WiFi signal strength - in old brick buildings you can get unintuitive dead spots, and the app lets you put your phone somewhere and test signal quality.
- greggman 11y agoActually I have the opposite experience. I need to use my routers at events for all kinds of situations. If the router uses html I can configure it regardless of os and having to go find an app. I also often use the router without internet (only need lan) which means no internet to download an app Apps to configure routers are an anti-feature IMO
- cmrdporcupine 11y agoThe app also gives you insights into what's happening with your OnHub -- per device traffic sums, speed tests, alerts, etc. And we're constantly improving it. IMHO that's the real win with the OnHub; the router itself is constantly upgraded with up to date firmware with security updates and new features. And the mobile app that administrates it is constantly getting new features. Maybe I should transfer to marketing.
- umsm 11y agoI completely agree with untog. Apple's Airport device is so seamless that it's a pleasure to use. What kind of firmware / security updates do you get with OnHub? Aren't firmware updates dangerous if everything is working perfectly (the possibility to introduce issues)?
- wmf 11y agoThe app looks cool but it doesn't really do much (not that I need it to do anything).
- dan_quixote 11y agoSingle data point on custom router build reliability: I've been using IPFire/pfSense on a little passively cooled Celeron box for a couple years. It reliably hits the theoretical gigabit limit ~800Mb/s and has never once failed even while running intrusion detection. Coupled with a ~$150 wireless router-turned-access point, I have never had a single reliability issue.
- matt_wulfeck 11y agoHave you ever measured combined power usage of your two devices?
- sethrin 11y agoIn what circumstances do you foresee the power usage of networking equipment as having more than a notional impact on one's life? (Serious question)
- sirtaj 11y agoFor one: if you live in a place with unreliable power supply (as I do), it dictates how much backup time you get from your UPS.
- sethrin 11y agoTo clarify, when the power goes out, you are still able to get online? Otherwise it would seem like it would be somewhat pointless to have the networking equipment plugged into the UPS. I have worked online during a power outage using a cellular internet adapter, but obviously no UPS or router was involved there.
- what_ever 11y agoPower outages can be very local. So yes, you can use internet using UPS backup.
- mrbill 11y agoSame here.. Long string of custom built routers, pfsense with wifi, OpenWRT, etc... even at one point a very expensive Cisco industrial-class 2.4/5 AP. Now I have an Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite as my "core" router, and the OnHub acting as just-an-AP in bridge mode. It Just Works, and works better than any piece of wireless gear I've had before. My only "complaint" would be that I'm forced to use a mobile app for configuration - although in the OnHub subreddit, it was said a while back that a basic web UI was in development.
- NegativeLatency 11y agoWhy not get a ubiquity AP?
- mrbill 11y agoI had a Ubiquiti Unifi-LR (flashed with normal OpenWRT so I didn't have to use their Java-based management software for ONE access point) that worked great, but the OnHub works even better. The -LR was 802.11n-only. The Unifi-AC runs about $269, more than the OnHub. Looks like they now have a Unifi-AC-LITE, which is sub-$100, but it wasn't available when I got the OnHub that I know of.
- seanp2k2 11y agoInteresting. I was running pfsense since 2006 on a P4 box with PCI Intel pro NICs + WRT54G on DD-WRT, then on an AMD Geode-based HP thin client with an expansion board to give it PCI-E to use a Pro1000/MT card + Cisco Aironet 1200 from eBay that someone flashed LWAP FW onto and couldn't fix so they sold it as parts/not working ($50 IIRC, had to track down the right firmware, took a day of messing with it), and finally now an ERLite + Airport Express + Ubiquiti AP AC Pro. Power usage on the P4 sucked (>100w idle). The eBay thin clients did much better, usually around 20-40w, and the ERLite is lowest (and it's fanless). I ran a Cisco 2651XM for a while before any of this, but it maxed out doing NAT slower than my home connection was. Honestly though, I was just super excited to get something off-the-shelf for $100 that was stable, supported, low-power, and didn't require much administration. Messing with this stuff was a fun hobby and I learned a lot, but now I don't have as much time and it just needs to work.
- untog 11y ago> Messing with this stuff was a fun hobby and I learned a lot, but now I don't have as much time and it just needs to work. Fact of life right there. When I was younger I assembled my own PCs, researching the best CPU, case, etc. etc... these days I have a Macbook that I can't even open. Makes me a little sad, but I need something that I can rely on - and I don't really have the time to research and construct my own machine. I miss it a little, though. While is why it's really fun to play around with Arduino stuff. Reduces it down to harmless hobby level.
- deelowe 11y agoCan you explain this further? I'm running pfsense now and it's rock solid. Always has been. So, in that case are you saying that onhub is faster somehow?
- daurnimator 11y agoFWIW, I recently bought mikrotik hardware, and my god... it's so much better than the regular stuff I've been using for years. You need to be rather technical to use it IMO, but they're such a step above the rest you'd be mad not to buy one. e.g. model to get at the moment for home use: hAP ac. it's a 5 gigabit port router with ac wifi.
- hiddennetwork 11y agoWhat bothers me about this device is the necessity to have a live Google account, which takes in everything I surf in real time. I have serious reservations about this.
- ajonit 11y agoCreate an account just for this router and fwd incoming mails to your main email.
- nunez 11y agoHave you ever tried using an Apple AirPort Extreme? That's the router we're running with at home and it's been damn amazing. I haven't had to touch the thing since I bought it 1.5 years ago, and it's only been off three times during the time I've had it (all due to power outages). It's also ridiculously fast; I get almost all of my allocated throughput over Wi-Fi. It's amazing.
- ProAm 11y agoUntil they discontinue support and turn the service off in a 18 months. It's hard to put any faith in google products anymore, especially with the new alphabet revenue strategy put into place.
- godzillabrennus 11y agoAbsolutely this! I roll with Pfsense hardware because the software is open source. Even if CMB and crew sell or make it proprietary I know that with such a large community some of the contributors will just fork it. Too many ways for this Google gadget to be made a brick because they don't care about their customers.
- kyrra 11y agoThe opinions stated here are my own, not necessarily those of Google. If you are referring to Revolv, Nest/Revolv stopped selling the device the day Nest acquired them (Oct 2014), and they are also issuing refunds to anyone that contacts them[0]. The other major hardware cancel I know about was the Nexus Q which Google also provided a full refund for anyone that contacts them. Sure, Google could cancel it, but they seem to only do that with something if it was a total flop, and they then do what they can to fully refund whoever was effected. http://revolv.com/ http://revolv.com/
- maxerickson 11y agoThere was just a little bit of outrage over the revolv before they started doing what they could to refund people.
- skrebbel 11y agoI think the problem is more that many people feel that Google doesn't care about their customers, for a variety of reasons that I'm sure you can imagine. That's an image thing, and I'm sure you can come up with all kinds of historical facts on why that image is not right, or not right anymore, but that hardly helps fix the image. I think that if Google really wanted to fix that image, they could do revolutionary stuff like promise long term support, or publish a phone number. EDIT! westernmostcoy pointed out that actually they do, clearly, publish a phone number, which is pretty decent of them. I got the HN points anyway so it's too late now, but still, good to see! Maybe I should read a site before I criticize it.
- zyxley 11y agoI just wish more of these companies would add support for a locally runnable IFTTT equivalent, or at least something like MQTT support so you can bake your own.
- reportingsjr 11y agoThere is startup near me called losant[1] that pretty much does this. Their protocol is basically MQTT with a few small additions so if they /did/ shut down it wouldn't be quite as difficult to get up and running. Unfortunately all of the neat IFTTT style stuff is all on their servers. They don't have nearly as many inputs and ouputs as IFTTT yet, but it is still enough to do some pretty neat stuff. They have also made it really easy to do reasonably secure stuff with your own electronics. [1] Kind of difficult to find, because the just changed their name. http://losant.com http://losant.com
- tdicola 11y agoLook at running OpenWRT on a cheapo consumer router (I use a TP-Link router, but nowadays TP-Link is being stupid and shutting down the ability to load custom firmware so avoid them). You can install all kinds of packages like mosquitto MQTT server.
- crymer11 11y agoHuginn[0] support would be fantastic, but MQTT would definitely suffice. 0 - https://github.com/cantino/huginn https://github.com/cantino/huginn
- googlryas 11y agoYeah - I bought some belkin wemo devices, thinking that I could use their "smart" light switch to control an outlet on the other side of the room which it wasn't wired for. It ended up working, but because the comms had to go through IFTTT servers, the lag was something like 10-15 seconds, which is awful when you want to just turn on a light.
- nl 11y agoThe Wemo mobile app works on the local network and doesn't require IFTTT (?)
- jMyles 11y agoThis relies on an internet connection, right? So many of these sorts of products do, and it is infuriating. It makes them utterly inapplicable for many environments. I'm building a home in a school bus. There will most certainly be times when I don't have a good (or any) internet connection, but I still want local and customizable automation. My plan is to just roll my own with Raspberry PIs.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- olegious 11y agoI'm willing to bet that you represent a very small segment of the population and are thus not a target for this product. A product can't do everything and be the solution for everyone, each product has a target market and since you're in a niche, most products won't solve your problems.
- jMyles 11y agoSure, a mobile solution like mine is a tiny portion. But there are many other reasons that the internet connectivity requirement might need to be a non-starter. Taken together, I suspect that these are a reasonable large minority; large enough, I imagine, to be a viable target audience.
- cheeze 11y agoSeriously... It's a router. Most people buy it so that they can get wireless internet. Needing to be connected to the internet for extra functionality isn't that odd in this case. I'd be willing to wager that 98% of people who own one of these have a persistent internet connection. If you live in a school bus, yeah, you're gonna have to make some compromises or roll your own sometimes.
- venomsnake 11y ago> To create Recipes for things you would like to happen automatically, just register and login at IFTTT.com (it’s free) and connect to the OnHub channel. Then start cooking up the Recipes that serve you best. Because OnHub on IFTTT works with so many products and services, there are lots of options for Recipes you can create. And why this needs to be cloud service? Instead of locally running demon on a raspberry pi?
- dannyr 11y agoMaybe to make it more accessible to normal people?
- fucking_tragedy 11y agoI know a dozens of normal people who need a router but no non-tech oriented person who knows, cares about or would find utility in IFTTT. Even if this was the case, a solution for normal people doesn't necessarily mean cloud based.
- kefka 11y agoI have my instances of Node-Red running on : 1. Home IoT controller 2. Public-facing webserver 3. At friend's house where my 3d printers are And they are all connected together via Tor for networking. Hidden Services are awesome, as they can semantically be treated as a huge ethernet hub (topologically speaking). And Node-Red can command and control other Node-Reds via other plugins. Edit: There's 474 different Nodes that Node-Red can use. And one node is node-red-contrib-npm, which exposes any npm module as a node to Node-Red. Which sums that up to about 250,000 nodes. http://flows.nodered.org/ http://flows.nodered.org/
- deprave 11y agoI cannot understand why anyone would buy hardware from Google. Chromecast for $35 a pop is as much as I'd be willing to pay from something that they could arbitrarily shut down.
- mankyd 11y agoIm curious how you think they'll shut your router off? Certainly, they could turn cloud based features such as this off, but the router itself?
- nxzero 11y agoWhat would stop them? EDIT: @sohailk, think you're missing the point, which is not if it's logical, but what literally would stop them from doing this? (Hardware, legal, etc.)
- sohailk 11y agocommon sense? locking down unnecessary software features is bad but not gamebreaking. locking down hardware would just be crazy.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- wmf 11y agoOnHub runs (effectively) ChromeOS and self-updates, so in theory Google could send an update that bricks it but they'd have to be stupid to invite that class action lawsuit.
- deprave 11y agoYour question rests on the assumption that it's "my" router, since it's a piece of physical hardware that I bought, and that it will continue to function after they shut down the cloud-based features that they used to lure customers in and justify the price tag. Past experience - most recently with Revolv - suggests that your assumption is wrong and Google has no problem bricking the device instead of letting it function without cloud support. In other words: When Google shuts down a product, it's 100% shut down. Hence, I cannot understand why anyone would buy non-throwaway hardware from them.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- Matthias247 11y agoRules that depend on the number of devices connected to a router? Doesn't seem like a very reliable concept.
- davidu 11y agoHow does IFTTT make money? I can't figure it out.
- nathancahill 11y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11378278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11378278
- mod 11y agoI read quite a bit of that and I'm not sure where it mentioned their revenue source. I did see some mention of funding, and of very small fees (relative to operating a company) for having your integration on their platform.
- some-guy 11y agoI tried OnHub, but unfortunately it didn't have the option to force 5Ghz over 2.4Ghz for devices without going through some hacks. Where I live, 2.4Ghz wireless has 10% packet loss on average, no matter which router I use. I'm happy that routers are finally getting the UX treatment they deserve, and their target market isn't for people who know the difference between the two, but OnHub should keep the nitty-gritty details accessible to power users if they so wish. I eventually had to return the router and go back to forcing 5Ghz on my old one.
- jethro_tell 11y agoDo you have a router that does this or do you normally just turn of the 2.4Ghz band?
- ploxiln 11y agoOn other wifi APs you can give different SSIDs to the 2.4GHz and 5GHz radios (and, on a ubiquity or other business-class AP, you can also add another SSID that spans both radios). Then you can have the client connect to the SSID which is available only on 5GHz (even as another client uses the SSID which is available on either).
- some-guy 11y agoThe OnHub router has one SSID, but two BSSIDs that account for each frequency band. Unfortunately, some devices (such as iPhones) cannot choose one over the other, so I have been turning off 2.4Ghz in this case.
- jethro_tell 11y agoYou can't connect to the bssid with an iPhone?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- stsp 11y agoAn AP cannot prioritize 5 GHz over 2 GHz. It's up to the client to decide what to connect to.
- alexkavon 11y agoThis is also of note today too: http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/29/11535232/microsoft-flow-ifttt-competitor http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/29/11535232/microsoft-flow-if...
- rocky1138 11y agoIt was super annoying to set up the OnHub. Instead of a standard web interface, they require installation of a mobile app.
- matt_wulfeck 11y agoI'd take that any day over the insecure, circa 1999 web UI on my Asus router.
- Nullabillity 11y agoThere are many cases where native has advantages over web applications. Router config UI is about as far from that as possible.
- Animats 11y agoThe remote update "feature" means this has a built-in backdoor into your local network. So you don't want to install this in a law office, anywhere that has to be HIPAA compliant, or any environment requiring security.
- jethro_tell 11y agoWhy would you put this in a business? I suppose the same argument holds for space stations prisons but we haven't brought that up. The lack of remote updates for any router probably also means that it has a back door. There's a pretty extensive list of home router vulns out there already. Being HIPAA compliant is not generally an indication of a well secured network.
- randyrand 11y agoYou might run a home business
- jethro_tell 11y agoA home business that his HIPAA compliant?
- mikecb 11y agoYes, use juniper instead.
- dimino 11y agoSame with Chrome, though.
- copperx 11y agoWhich raises a question: WHICH router would you use in such an environment?
- morgante 11y agoThe gratuitous negativity of this article is entirely uncalled for. I would much rather that a device integrate with IFTTT and thus gain connectivity with the hundreds of services which IFTTT supports than for it to attempt to hand-roll integrations with a much smaller subset of services. In case anyone disputes my claim of gratuitous negativity: > Some smart home features finally come to OnHub, but using a non-Google ecosystem. > Its only real differentiators were the funky design, easy setup, and the promise of future updates. > Now with the IFTTT update, the OnHub finally supports some smart home features—but it's using someone else's ecosystem. > IFTTT is now the gateway for controlling other things in your house via the OnHub rather than using some kind of Google communication standard like we expected. > This is all still happening over Wi-Fi, too, so the OnHub is still not using any of the smart-home antennas it shipped with.
- detaro 11y agoIt's negativity, but I'm not convinced on the "gratuitous". They clearly mention the (IMHO reasonable) expectations compared to which this is negative.
- ericclemmons 11y agoShucks. I just bought eero over OnHub because the former seems to answer the multi- floor wireless solution than OnHub. I'm in a 4-story town home with PoE between floors, which works great, but Apple's AirPort Extreme + Express CONSISTENTLY stops resolving DNS while the wired connections are fine. Looks like I have another alternative if eero doesn't work...
- robbiemitchell 11y agoEvery time I read a story about IFTTT support, I want to shout "Please look at Zapier, it's so much better!" Really, it's so much better. Zapier = AWS Lambda with hundreds of pre-built integrations, webhooks for the rest, multi-step jobs, arbitrary code execution (JS and Python) ... all in a UI with monitoring that makes all the trouble go away.
- Oletros 11y agoPerhaps it is better, but it is very expensive if you want more than 5 zaps or 100 tasks/month. Right now, I have 25 recipes on IFTTT, if I would have the same number on Zapier I would have to pay $49/month.
- PerfectElement 11y agoWent in to look for a recipe and didn't find it: I want to be notified when any new device connects to my network. It seems pretty obvious to me and more useful than most recipes I've seen there.
- DonHopkins 11y agoWhere would "If This Then That" be if not without "Put That There"? [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyBEUyEtxQo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyBEUyEtxQo
- djhn 11y agoIs there a beginner guide for modern, home-use or pro-sumer quality, networking hardware in general, or device specific purchase recommendations for otherwise technically savvy people? Could someone please share a link? I've only ever used the hardware that comes for free with the contract from my cable operator, and I guess it works most of the time... but recently blind spots and and slow-speed-spots have been a nuisance.