27 ms·

I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

• komali2 11y ago
  My only fear is that ultimateGuitarTabs will use these developments to make visiting their site on mobile even more of a hellish experience.
• Kjeldahl 11y ago
  Good post. There's one other challenge though and that is access to native GUI widgets. Just having an app icon and appearing in the task switcher simply isn't enough. It's one of the problems React Native tries to solve, although I have to admit I'm not impressed with it so far. With the momentum Javascript is having I wouldn't be surprised if most vendors will release "native" javascript bindings to their platforms anyway, which hopefully will remove the last missing piece for "native experiences" using Javascript on iOS and Android (and for that sake, Windows 10 and OSX).
  • WorldMaker 11y ago
    For what it is worth, Windows has had "native" JS bindings since Windows 8/Windows Phone 8.1. The Windows 10 store added support for server-hosted JS apps, which was the last puzzle piece in the support system as a lot of web developers still love their existing/preferred server host/backend language/deployment pattern.
  • endemic 11y ago
    To be honest, I've been hoping that Google would lead the way with JS API bindings... Cordova is pretty nice these days, but it would also be nice not to deal with it.
• frobware 11y ago
  Sadly, the web is an accessibility nightmare. If that changes, then sure, I could move too. But there's a lot that modern versions of iOS get right regarding accessibility, stuff that I wish google/android would do too.
  • rimantas 11y ago
    with the latest webdev trends it is extremely unlikely this will improve any time soon. There was a time (~10-15) years ago when separation of concenrs and accessibility did matter, now it is just a js frameworks bloodbath.
    • spankalee 11y ago
      Some "frameworks" put a ton of work into accessibility. The Polymer team's entire element catalog is accessible with ARIA integration done with assistance from Chrome's dedicated accessibility engineers. We even provide reusable abstractions that make writing your own accessible elements easier, like iron-a11y-announcer and iron-a11y-keys. Accessibility was a big topic at our last Polymer Summit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6yLWihykVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6yLWihykVA
      • frobware 11y ago
        Thanks for the link - was really interesting, particularly the introduction which explains why accessibility is so important and the number of people that it touches.
  • ryao 11y ago
    I am not a professional web developer, but I used LAMP to make a decent size website using standards conformant XHTML/CSS without table hacks with PHP and MySQL for forms when I was in high school. I wrote the markup by hand, so I made certain to place content first so that 56k modems would load it quickly and web browsers for the the blind would not read navigation bars before the actual content. At the time, I assumed that JavaScript was not always available because people eithet either turned it off to eliminate the Javascript engine as an an exploit vector or were using browsers that did not support it because they were blind. Consequently, I considered requiring JavaScript for a webpage to load properly to be bad practice. Even if I assume JavaScript is everywhere, I have yet to hear of how one would make things dependent on it accessible to the blind. I know that people will make webpages that require it regardless of whether the blind can view them or not, but I still feel that is bad practice.
• Polarity 11y ago
  i switched to linux (elemntary) last year after years of osx. feels good and fast.
  • headShrinker 11y ago
    I might switch if my job was only coding, but I handle a lot of graphics as well, and that just doesn't fly on linux. On a side note, it's frustrating that everything I want to do on linux requires me to download 5 packages and recompile a binary... I guess that's just me...
• Jerry2 11y ago
  >So, instead of opening my text editor I placed an order for a Nexus 6P Nexus 6P is notorious for atrocious build quality. It bends easier than a bar of chocolate. [0] Google should do a recall on these things. It bends a lot easier than an old iPhone 6 plus. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3cWVdLqXCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3cWVdLqXCg Edit: I see Google fanboys decided to downvote this comment instead of engaging in a debate. This is not in the spirit of Hacker News. I know HN has a lot of Google employees who are extremely touchy but come on.. be objective once is a while
  • ihsw 11y ago
    Anecdotal evidence here -- ordered mine on launch day, been using daily it for a few months. No issues whatsoever. FYI I have a case and I don't know anyone that uses a phone without a case.
    • takno 11y ago
      Interesting on case usage. I'd say virtually everybody I know with an iPhone has it in a case, but for other devices it's maybe 20% of people I know who use one. All anecdotal, and every mall I go in has a hundred shops selling them, I've just always wondered who's buying them
      • matwood 11y ago
        I've never used a case on any of my phones whether iPhone or Nexus. I did use the iPhone 4 bumper they gave out because it was free and I liked the little ridge that let me lay the phone face down.
        • takno 11y ago
          I'm using a bumper-style case myself just because it came with the phone, and the phone has a glass back and razor sharp edges which is really just bad design.
  • itp 11y ago
• lucian1900 11y ago
  I like native apps. I'm still annoyed there's no native desktop Hangouts app and how many things Atom gets wrong.
  • ngrilly 11y ago
    > how many things Atom gets wrong Like what? I'm starting using it and I'd like to know.
    • lucian1900 11y ago
      The biggest issue is the performance difference. It takes an entire second to syntax highlight a new file and large files are unusable. Almost all interactions have a noticeable delay, including typing. Scrolling is painfully slow. At least on OS X, it's by far the app with the largest energy impact. It's the only other thing that competes with Chrome. Besides that, it doesn't use native UI elements where it could. Plugins don't add top menu items, the folder view on the left isn't a native treeview, it renders its own (slow) scrollbars, it doesn't respect native text rendering settings like line height or font hinting, pop-ups overlap in surprising ways (sometimes scroll bars are above them) and can't easily leave the main window, various elements move around unexpectedly when scrolling to an edge.
      • ngrilly 11y ago
        Those are good points. What would you use instead?
        • kasabali 11y ago
          Sublime Text, Textmate, vim, Emacs...
          • ngrilly 11y ago
            The usual suspects :-) (Except TextMate that I see less and less cited in discussions.)
• itp 11y ago
  Wow. I'm a long time Android user and probably pay more attention than most, and I had no idea web apps had gotten quite this nice. Currently the only web app / web shortcut I have installed is the HackerWeb app[0], which is nice but clearly not taking advantage of all of the functionality it could. I "installed" Flipkart Lite and the Voice Memos demo app to see the state of the world. Clearly it's possible to build some really nice web apps these days! I hope to see more of it moving forward. [0] https://hackerwebapp.com/ https://hackerwebapp.com/
  • cheeaun 11y ago
    Hi! Creator of HackerWeb here, just wondering what kind of additional functionality that you're expecting?
    • itp 11y ago
      Hey! Sorry if that comment came out a bit harsh; I definitely didn't mean it to. As evidenced by the fact that I continue to use the web app over any of the native options, I'm obviously a pretty happy user. So, random thoughts/feedback: - I wish I could login, comment, maybe even receive comment notifications? Although the last would clearly be an improvement on HN itself. - I wish I had some preferences available to me, e.g. always open links externally vs. inside the app itself. (I can long-press on a link and select "open in Chrome" of course.) - Flipkart has some pretty slick animations. The primary thing that jars me about HackerWeb is how abrupt everything is compared to native apps. Obviously nothing huge; just stuff I didn't know was even possible. Anyway, let me at least grab this opportunity to thank you for your work!
      • lewisl9029 11y ago
        > I wish I could login, comment, maybe even receive comment notifications? AFAIK authenticated user actions (logging in/commenting/profile management/etc) are simply not exposed through the official HN API. I don't think there's much third party developers can do about that, unfortunately. But yes, web apps have come a long way. Apple treating web apps as second-class citizens will probably still pose a huge barrier to widespread adoption for quite some time though.
• rimantas 11y ago
  It would be nice if guy stuck to coherent argument. Meanwhile he talks about "monarch enforcing a 30% tax.", about iOS developers barely making any money. Ok, so where are the numbers, how much money did he make with his "installable web apps" on Android?
• jarjoura 11y ago
  I think apps are in a lull right now because most were abandoned and left users feeling jittery about pouring their lives into them. Also few apps spent the effort to take advantage of working offline. If I'm in the subway, I'm basically unable to use anything except games. Although the last couple of games I couldn't play because they were trying to connect to an Ad server that would fail and so the game wouldn't progress.
  • Jtsummers 11y ago
    Not just to ad servers. Some games that have no need for online-only modes are starting to function that way as well. I suspect it was thoughtlessness on the part of the developers ("When would someone ever be without the internet?" "When they're on a cross-country flight!"). This reminds me, I should find a comment box on their site and suggest they fix this, it was incredibly frustrating being barred from a game I bought to play in single player mode just because I was 30k feet in the air.
    • rifung 11y ago
      I assume it requires the internet so that people can't pirate it or make sure you're on the latest update? I can understand the frustration you're facing but also sympathize for people who are trying to make a living from selling apps.
      • Jtsummers 11y ago
        It's antagonistic behavior towards users and unnecessary for most apps to be always-online. This is the difference between "I'd recommend this to friends" and "screw these guys". The primary reason I buy board and card game apps is to play offline when traveling, usually with other people, versus carting around 100lbs of games. If a simple hot seat version of your game requires an internet connection, you're doing it wrong.
        • rifung 11y ago
          I agree that it's annoying because I like to play games on the bus where I also don't have internet. I'm just saying that in a way, this was caused by people pirating too much software. I wish I had a solution which didn't require the apps to go online but I don't.
• criddell 11y ago
  And then somebody in management asks why the new app is missing so many features on his brand new iPhone. In fact, all the C-level folks and board members are primarily iPhone and iPad users and none of them are happy that so many goodies are missing. If you aren't worried about provided a first class experience to your iOS customers, then build for Chrome + Android. Although, that sounds a little like "build for IE6 + Windows" 15 years ago.
  • untog 11y ago
    > If you aren't worried about provided a first class experience to your iOS customers, then build for Chrome + Android. Although, that sounds a little like "build for IE6 + Windows" 15 years ago. Except that Android is the open one that is implementing agreed upon standards, and Apple is the laggard left behind.
    • TomBombadildoze 11y ago
      > Apple is the laggard left behind citation needed
      • deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      • untog 11y ago
        The article itself cites things like the lack of support for WebRTC and Service Workers.
        • toomuchtodo 11y ago
          I can't find a single iOS app I use that needs either of these.
          • untog 11y ago
            I'm not sure if you're trolling or sincere here. Of course iOS apps don't need them, they are native. We are talking about the capabilities of the iOS Safari browser.
• milge 11y ago
  I also went from iOS to Android (iPhone 4s -> Nexus 5x). I had my 4s for 5 years and loved it. I'd still have it if it weren't for iOS 9 being too big to install and verizon overcharging. I've developed apps on both. Some apps have to be apps to use sensors and devices built into the phones. A lot of apps could probably get away with being mobile sites. Doubly so with some of the new html technologies being introduced by the W3C. Because Android and iPhone are owned by companies, they can move fast. The web has to accommodate for many more devices. So web standards move slower. In the time apps have become huge, a lot has been added to web standards. But I'm guessing most people haven't noticed. My guess is people are used to using frameworks and have abstracted themselves away from the basics. As a challenge to the reader, see what you can build in only JS/HTML/CSS with no server side. You'll be pleasantly surprised by what you can accomplish.
• ryao 11y ago
  > WebBluetooth (yup, talking to bluetooth devices from JS on a webpage) This sounds like a great new attack vector for the black hats of tommorrow. There are just some things that a web browser should not do. Exposing things that previously required escape from sandbox attacks is one of them.
  • untog 11y ago
    > There are just some things that a web browser should not do. Exposing things that previously required escape from sandbox attacks is one of them. Why is it any different from an app doing it, though? There will be the same permission prompts etc.
    • kec 11y ago
      I visit far more websites in a day than I use strange new apps. Apps also don't suffer from XSS.
      • Guvante 11y ago
        > I visit far more websites in a day than I use strange new apps. From the article you have to "install" the web application for any of these features to be available. > Apps also don't suffer from XSS. From websites sure, but they do from other apps.
        • ryao 11y ago
          > From the article you have to "install" the web application for any of these features to be available. As far as the article is concerned, rendering a webpage as if it were an app takes away functionality (mainly, the ability to interact with the address bar). It does not discuss the security of web 2.0 features and it certainly does not claim that these features are only available when the webpage is pretending to be an app. > From websites sure, but they do from other apps. iOS uses capsiculum to isolate applications while Android uses SELinux. They aren't executing each others' code.
• RunawayGalaxy 11y ago
  Didn't need a whole blog post. The necessity of moving files would have been sufficient.
• minionslave 11y ago
  I just realized that half of the applications I have on my phone can't be used without a data connection. What happens when I lose signal. The cloud is nice, but I need some offline in my life too.
  • collyw 11y ago
    I have an Ubutu phone, and most of the apps are web based. Its quite a good user experience (way better than Andorid or ios in my opinion, apart from the lack of apps). However, when I went abroad and turned off the data connection it became pretty useless. No offline maps, as the web based apps won't even startup without a data connection.
• hackuser 11y ago
  A bit OT: I'd like a mobile platform that provides confidentiality (from both government draget and commercial spying) and end-user control. These seem like fundementals of any platform, at least as user options, but I haven't found it: * iOS seems to have some confidentiality, though are users really protected from commercial spying? Of course end-user control is very limited. * Android provides some end-user control if you root your phone, but it's complicated to utilize. Confidentiality is awful; there are a never-ending number of holes and leak, AFAICT, many built into the OS. No fork (i.e., ROM) of Android seems to focus on confidentiality, though I'm curious whether Blackberry's Priv locks down the OS in addition to the hardware. * Basebands are neither confidential nor provide end-user control, in any phones outside of FOSS projects, AFAIK. * Mobile service providers also are an omnipresent risk. --- I suspect a decent solution to the baseband and mobile service problem is the following, but I haven't tried it and I know it has some weaknesses: * a hosted VPN service that provides a firewall (the firewall is needed to filter outbound connections from your phone) * a cellular router that's pre-paid, tethered to the phone to isolate the baseband from the rest of your handheld computer * VOIP service for voice and SMS/MMS
  • Silhouette 11y ago
    I'm curious whether Blackberry's Priv locks down the OS in addition to the hardware. So am I, but when I read their site about it around the time it launched, there were so many loopholes and weasel words in the information about security features that I ran away. FWIW, the most obvious warning sign was that they were very hot on telling you about potentially insecure things being done on your device, but I couldn't find a single definitive statement that their software actually let you do anything to prevent those things from happening, nor any reference to tools or controls that seemed like they might do so, on their entire site. It also appeared to be based on an older version of Android that didn't have some of the more recent advances in per-app per-function privilege controls, suggesting that they might actually be worse in this respect than recent devices from other providers would be just with the latest off-the-shelf Android release.
• untog 11y ago
  I agree with pretty much everything in this article - I firmly believe that we're due a "post-app" world where progressively enhanced web sites provide 95% of the functionality we require. But we're not there yet - I'd love to see better WebView integration into native UI components (UINavigationController and the like), to provide things like swipe-to-go-back, which is monumentally hard to do on the web. But hey. Maybe, just maybe, we'll end up back in a world were cross-platform development is viable. If Apple lets us.
  • aembleton 11y ago
    I just tried the https://www.pokedex.org/ https://www.pokedex.org/ site on Chrome for Android, and I could add it to my home screen, but that doesn't add it to my app drawer. That is annoying, I don't want it on my home screen but it seems to be the only way to turn it into a 'native app'. I don't think Progressive Web Apps are ready for the mainstream, but I'm hopeful that in the next few years we can get there.
    • untog 11y ago
      Interesting, I see the same thing, though it hadn't occurred to me. Seems easily fixable, though I agree that we're not there yet. However, I have uninstalled the Facebook app from my phone, and now receive push notifications from the mobile website, which I have on my home screen. It's a fantastic experience.
    • nolanl 11y ago
      (I'm the author of Pokedex.org.) Unfortunately it's a limitation of the Android platform; you can't add arbitrary launch activities at runtime. So the Chrome team is unable to fix this AFAIK. However, you could imagine a future release of Android that sports a custom homescreen app that just includes Chrome progressive webapps in the main app drawer. Or someone might be able to write a third-party homescreen app already that does that. (Not sure if Chrome exports that data though TBH.) Also, FWIW, the "add to homescreen" is really just icing on the cake - even without it, PWAs save data locally and are launchable offline. If you remove Pokedex.org from your homescreen, you'll notice you can still navigate to https://pokedex.org https://pokedex.org while in airplane mode, and Chrome still reports some 6MB of Pokémon data as being stored on your device. (It remains to be seen whether this is a bug or a feature... but we'll see how many PWAs abuse it.)
• hackergary 11y ago
  Sounds like someone trying to force web apps to do native apps' jobs. When something like React Native bridges web languages and full native benefits/performance.
  • bryanlarsen 11y ago
    You're right, that's exactly what he wants to do. Why shouldn't he be able to? It works great on Android.
    • roosterjm2k2 11y ago
      Because, when you try to use the wrong tool for the job, you don't get to blame the tool...
• jonlunsford 11y ago
  I also just made the exact same switch, after years of wanting more control over my hardware without jailbreaking, I just want to install f.lux for crying out loud! As a web dev, i'm very excited to loose the chains of iOS :)
  • aikinai 11y ago
    How did Android help you with f.lux? Apple just came out with a f.lux copy built into iOS, while none of the alternatives on Android work without rooting.
    • obsurveyor 11y ago
      Night Shift only supports iPhone 5s(no 5 or 5c) and above(including the SE), iPad mini 2+, iPad Air 1+, iPad Pro and the 6th gen iPod touch.
    • collyw 11y ago
      I installed another program that does the same thing, without any need to root my Android.
      • aikinai 11y ago
        There aren't any programs that do the same thing without rooting. Android doesn't have any APIs that allow you to change the color temperature, so all of the non-root apps just add a transparent red overlay on top of the screen. I know this area well since it's one thing I was really looking forward to when I got an Android phone and I was very disappointed.
      • JustSomeNobody 11y ago
        Similar != Same
    • calebsurfs 11y ago
      CF.lumen works well on Android, especially if you disable notifications
• Splendor 11y ago
  If you want to argue that I shouldn't expect my user to have the newest iPhone you shouldn't also list WebBluetooth as a pro. My user probably doesn't have a device that supports it either.
• dimillian 11y ago
  Show me on good mobile web app that is - Useful - Work offline - Fast - Don't have weird glitches
  • deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  • owencm 11y ago
    http://www.flipkart.com/ http://www.flipkart.com/
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• 64bitbrain 11y ago
  If I ever get a Android phone, it will be Nexus series. I had an HTC and I waited ages for Android 4 update because AT&T didn't had there "customized" version, with bunch of useless apps on it. On the other hand, my friend was able to upgrade to latest version of Android, because he was using Nexus. I switched to an iPhone and I loved it. Better battery life, and clean installation.
• kalleboo 11y ago
  My main exposure to Chrome web apps is Hangouts on Chrome for Mac and half the time I shut it down and choose to use the native app on my phone instead due to the poor, non-native UI and the battery life impact of Chrome. edit: the other shiny Google Web App example, Google Docs, doesn't work either. In Safari it likes to drops keys, and the last time I used it in Chrome (last autumn), it would either crash the whole tab, or freeze it up long enough for it to tell me it gave up and that I should just copy the content and paste into a new document It seems we're re-living the nightmare of Java "cross-platform compatibility" but with an even worse programming language. > In fact, I think Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) actually have a huge leg-up on native apps because you can start using them immediately > There’s just so much less friction for users to start using them Every web app I've used has required a painful sign-up process, which is usually where I bail out of the process. Way more friction than an app store install.
  • lucasmullens 11y ago
    Why would a PWA have a sign-up process when a native app wouldn't?
  • treehau5 11y ago
    > Every web app I've used has required a painful sign-up process, which is usually where I bail out of the process. Way more friction than an app store install. That signup process can be made better. Nothing fixes the pains of having to download a large app over a potentially slow/spotty network, sacrifice an unknown amount of privacy, then having to twiddle a variable amount of options to get the thing to stop sending you notifications about every single action or event, then after a week of use, having to re-download the large app again because of updates.
    • task_queue 11y ago
      With today's web apps, I can only sympathize with the examples that deal with file size. The others still apply to using web services.
    • kalleboo 11y ago
• lcfcjs 11y ago
  Android sucks so bad, i hate having to develop for it. I pity all those who have disillusioned themselves into liking a substandard mobile operating system. Have you guys not tried iOS? It will change your life.
• nostromo 11y ago
  Putting your development preferences ahead of your customer's preferences is a recipe for failure.
• kev009 11y ago
  I did the opposite and can't believe how much better my life had gotten because my iPhone is just a simple tool that I use for communications and don't think about it as a project. With Android, I always wanted to tweak silly things and run Cyanogenmod because the handset firmware was always so bad and vulnerable. On several occasions I'd bricked my phone requiring hours of recovery, or had transient failures of cell service and communications issues. I guess if you have the right level of discipline, apathy, or use a Nexus device that may be more Apples to Apples (harhar).
  • tsunamifury 11y ago
    There is an entire book written about this trade off called "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintaince" One of the major themes is the author and his best friend comparing how they interact with their bikes and the meaning they get from either tinkering, or not having to tinker, with them.
  • taesu 11y ago
    These things that you mentioned, you didn't really have to do. Buy a nexus, and it's as clean as it gets. What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? I do agree though, that those samsung/lg/etc phone have lots crapwares + carrier crapwares.
    • kev009 11y ago
      I made a trade off, being a FreeBSD person I am one degree removed from a lot of the xnu/iOS team and trust them to do the right thing. Empirically it seems like they quickly ship updates for vulns and support phones for beyond their typical first world lifespan. I also trust Apple to worry about the baseband firmware for the lifespan, whereas that is completely unmaintained on all other handsets especially once you use a custom ROM.
    • stcredzero 11y ago
      What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? Actually, this is a pattern that many products follow, as they evolve from a newly tinkered thing pioneered by enthusiasts to a mature consumer device. There is much more "freedom" in 80's and 90's audio equipment. (And markedly higher build quality. Bargain stuff I bought as a teenager is now lauded on ebay as the good old stuff, "built like a tank.") However, there are also a lot more cables to deal with. The progression is like this: 1) Pure tinkering, no standards 2) Enthusiast market, standards, high modularity/complexity 3) Prepackaged experience, no modularity Cars also followed this pattern, come to think of it.
• viseztrance 11y ago
  Meanwhile, on the desktop google music doesn't work without flash installed, and there's no desktop client in sight. Great times.
  • criddell 11y ago
    Google Play Music is why I installed Chrome. If I play music from Firefox, after 6 hours, my machine gets choppy and slow. Looking at Task Manager (in Windows 10) it will show me that Firefox is using around 1.4 GB. So, I use Chrome for music. Edit: And printing. When I need to print I always use Chrome because Firefox's printing is pretty broken.
    • JBReefer 11y ago
      Yeah but at least they're FINALLY getting rid of add-ons in Firefox. Priorities, you know.
• stcredzero 11y ago
  I don’t know whether or not this type of app was actually intended to be the primary mechanism for 3rd party dev to build apps for iOS but regardless… This was basically said by Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall during a WWDC keynote.
  • cromulent 11y ago
    I think this is the one: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/11iPhone-to-Support-Third-Party-Web-2-0-Applications.html http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/11iPhone-to-Support-...
• wnevets 11y ago
  The fact apple has to take so many features from android speaks for itself.
• t3ra 11y ago
  I am always surprised when people say things like CHROME is bringing X API. Take a look at these HTML5 Web APIs : https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API They have been here since sometime now! and Mozilla built a whole operating system around them which is has "Progressive Web Apps" in its core!
  • takno 11y ago
    Primarily because Firefox on Android doesn't yet support any of the technology being discussed in the article, or indeed most of the technologies on the page you linked to.
    • JBReefer 11y ago
      Also no one uses it
    • zanny 11y ago
      It has great webrtc support, at least. It also supports Firefox Market Apps being installed with native app launchers and views.
• exabrial 11y ago
  Galaxy S7 is far superior to any of the iPhones. Take it outside in the rain
  • zanny 11y ago
    Samsung is even learning from Apple with the locked bootloaders and no root. Why have users own the devices you sell them when you can just keep owning them while people pay for them?
• killerbat00 11y ago
  cached: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rRv0tBaqYygJ:https://joreteg.com/blog/why-i-switched-to-android+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rRv0tB...
• greatlakes 11y ago
  I think the differentiating factor here is Chrome's push to support and utilize the Service Worker API (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Wor...). The opportunity for web apps to have an offline experience and utilize push notifications is not only exciting but game changing for the web platform as a whole.
• alexkavon 11y ago
  I have to say that I'm all for web apps and web based apps using things like Cordova or what not, but recently my company's app has been hitting some walls. There are a lot of great things those systems can do and they're great for starting out. However in the long run you might as well consider developing native or developing using something Xaramin (which will probably be even more free soon). Native development just provides a less kludgy of developing. My company will be making the switch soon in this light. EDIT: I'd also like to say that the reason it's tough to develop for the web is languages like Javascript, sure it's getting better very slowly, but it also doesn't really allow for other languages to run in the browser and probably won't in the future. Sure you can compile, but why compile to JS and use a web view and work around conflicts while developing an app, when you can use a typed language and access APIs that work?
• brotoss 11y ago
  I want to switch back to Android soooooooo so badly. But iMessage is too damn convenient.
  • pawelkomarnicki 11y ago
    You know what's even more convenient? Google Hangouts ;-)
• ar0 11y ago
  TLDR: Chrome on Android supports Service Workers and WebRTC while Safari on iOS does not. This means Android these days is better suited for fully-fledged web applications that do not require a native app (or at least a native app wrapper).
  • wvenable 11y ago
    I think the flaw in the argument is that web applications that only run well on a single platform (Android) aren't really web applications. In that case you might as well build a native app.
• daxfohl 11y ago
  Web apps are okay but really there just needs to be a better way of 'using' native apps. A 'yes I want to use you now but no I don't want to install you' button.
• Touche 11y ago
  I'm amazed when I go to webdev conferences and see 90% iPhones, including many of the most prominent "javascript celebrities". Then I tell myself that just because you work on something doesn't mean you are passionate about it. I'm passionate about the web and couldn't imagine using an OS where all major features get delivered 4 or 5 years after creation (like IndexedDB was).
  • acdha 11y ago
    It depends on what you value – some features take awhile to show up on iOS but others are implemented relatively quickly, so there's both a question of which specific features actually benefit you and how much it's worth to have a much faster experience in general. The Android phones tend to perform much worse because the vendors chose to add multiple slow cores while Apple adds fewer faster cores — and since JavaScript is single-threaded, that adds up to a rather substantial difference: https://meta.discourse.org/t/the-state-of-javascript-on-android-in-2015-is-poor/33889 https://meta.discourse.org/t/the-state-of-javascript-on-andr... got a lot of attention last fall and the situation is generally still true — the Samsung S7 was even slower than its predecessor when it launched (https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/709448306771025920 https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/709448306771025920) depending on which version you happen to buy. A lot of people just don't want to have to deal with that when they can pay roughly the same amount of money and get a good, consistent experience. Yes, he dismisses that as “not all of your users have an iPhone 6s” but that ignores the fact that even the flagship Android phones were struggling to match the performance of iPhones which were multiple generations older, greatly extending the usable life of the phone, and that performance issues are quite notoriously user-visible. Yes, it's possible that with optimization heroics you might be able to get close to 60fps even on an old Android phone but it's expensive and most sites don't bother. The other thing to remember is that people who care about this also tend to care a lot about security (or work at places which do). The Android experience is less dismal but it still requires a lot of of micromanagement and questions about whether e.g. enabling encryption will slow your phone down noticeably (i.e. parity with the iPhone 3GS from 2009) or whether the fingerprint authentication has been implemented competently (it's complicated – see e.g. https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-15/materials/us-15-Zhang-Fingerprints-On-Mobile-Devices-Abusing-And-Leaking-wp.pdf https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-15/materials/us-15-Zhang-Fi...). Again, if you aren't primarily working on this exact problem you might quite reasonably choose not to have to add “phone security analyst and sysadmin” to your workload.
• __m 11y ago
  After 7 years of people switching from android to iOS or vice versa, i stopped reading blog posts about it
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• BuckRogers 11y ago
  I did the opposite. 7 years of Android to iOS. I'll never go back unless Apple somehow swaps the experience to be more like Android phones, and less like iOS is. But I don't really care about that. I just want my phone to work, to make calls and not fail or slowdown. Not be another computer I have to maintain. iOS in my experience is a great choice if that's the goal. He hit the nail on the head at the end. Native React and similar tools are going to simply help the app stores. I have no qualm with app stores as I'm not a webapp diehard. Just use what makes sense. I never think that is Javascript and take the exact opposite view of the author. I use JS only when I absolutely have to. I prefer to build native platform experiences, which if you're doing more than a CRUD app many times you have to do anyway. I'd work with C#, Swift, Rust, Python and their associated ecosystems before trying to JS All The Things. I find that concept very anti-democratic and regressive. The Javascript diehard mentality will come to it's final death throes once wasm hits V2 and allows every language the chance to work in the browser. Then the web will truly progress as the author states. Developers will be freed to use whatever they want. Swift on the server, iOS and browser. Let programming platforms and tooling duel it out, not hand the crown to a PL that was created in 1 week. I choose Python, but everyone should be able to use whatever they want as well. For me, that's the real "progressive web app".
  • yepthatsreality 11y ago
    Couldn't agree more. I've been looking at Xaramin for a real hybrid development. React Natvie is interesting, but once again, JS...
• mostafaberg 11y ago
  >I don’t know about you, but the idea of having a fully capable web browser in my pocket was a huge part of the appeal. A: Both iOS and android have fully capable web browsers, I'm not sure what's missing here ? >I’m talking about stuff that QA should have caught, stuff that if anybody at Apple was actually building ? apps this way would have noticed before they released. A: They do pass QA, that's why features are removed >One quick example that bit me was how they broke the ability to link out to an external website from within an app running in “standalone” mode. target=_blank no longer worked. A: Thank god apple no longer allows that, how do you expect a tiny screen to have popups and switch web browser views when you click links ? this is a very bad UX. >We were running a chat product at the time, so anytime someone pasted a URL into chat it was essentially a trap. A: I'm not here to judge your decisions or why you did it that way, but IMHO a chat product doesn't really belong in a "web browser" >The message from Apple seemed clear: web apps are second-class citizens on iOS A: Exactly, and it is that way for many good reasons. I see you've mostly switched to android just so you can continue developing webapps, that's okay for you, but it's not a really good reason at all. Don't be like the people who where bashing apple when it decided to remove support for flash player, because that's one of the reasons the web has become the way it is today, i'm not an apple fanboy, i also did the switch from iOS to Android after around 7 years too.
  • ricardobeat 11y ago
    > Thank god apple no longer allows that, how do you expect a tiny screen to have popups and switch web browser views when you click links ? this is a very bad UX. I don't think you realize what he's talking about. Any mobile app has the ability to open links either sending them to the default browser or using a webview overlay. How is not being able to open any links at all a better user experience?
    • mostafaberg 11y ago
      1-You're wrong, any app can do that on iOS/Android. who says that you can't open links from an iOS app ? 2-He was specifically talking about webapps in "standalone" mode, he specifically mentioned using `target="_blank"`. that kind of behavior does not belong in mobile environments, actually i personally disallow that on my computer too, but that's personal choice.
• Synaesthesia 11y ago
  Apple have actually been always pretty excellent with Safari performance and features on iOS. They were impressive from the start and they have kept pace with Google with regard to JavaScript performance overall performance has usually been class-leading, rendering too. Ok they're missing WebRTC right now and workers, but I'm pretty sure WebRTC will come soon and workers too at some point.
• userium 11y ago
  We just today published a UX checklist for iOS and Android apps (https://stayintech.com/info/mobile_ux_checklist https://stayintech.com/info/mobile_ux_checklist). There are some good ideas on this thread that I can later add on that list! Hopefully useful for some of you.
• krzrak 11y ago
  Sidenote: I checked the Google's Project Fi - damn, it's expensive. For $20/month you get unlimited calls and texts, but you have to pay extra $10 for every 1GB of data. Here in Poland for $10 I get the same unlimited calls and texts plus 4GB of LTE included (and then you're limited to 1 Mbps - but you can take the $13 plan and get unlimited GBs too).
  • rhodysurf 11y ago
    Its pretty cheap by US standards.
    • zanny 11y ago
      You can get 1GB of 4G and unlimited 3G on Freedompop for $20, or unlimited everything (inc 4G) for about ~$70 on Sprint / T-Mobile.
      • __david__ 11y ago
        That sounds good but they seem super sketchy. They want my address, email and IMEI before they'll even show me what plans they have? No thanks.
  • banhfun 11y ago
    That's pretty good compared to other service providers. Also, if you pay for more data than you use, you get refunded whatever amount to didn't use e.g. I bought 4 GB of data but only used 1.2, so I get refunded $28. The downside to Project Fi is that you need to buy a Nexus 5X to get in, and there's significantly less coverage than Verizon.
    • mifrai 11y ago
      If it helps, currently if you buy the Nexus 5X from Project Fi, it is about $150 cheaper than retail (Google Store) value. https://fi.google.com/about/phones/ https://fi.google.com/about/phones/ - 16GB $199 / 32GB $249
  • 11y ago
• Negative1 11y ago
  Great writeup, thank you! I actually did the opposite. Owned a Nokia "smartphone" when I got my first gen iPhone. Stayed on for 2 more generations then switched to a Samsung Galaxy (reason: wanted to see what this whole Android thing was about). In every way it was a painful experience but I stuck with it for a few years. When I finally switched back to an iPhone I was like, wow, it just works. Forgot how that felt. I'm still a fan of Android and believe it does some things so much better. Google Now is actually incredibly cool (too useful to be creepy). Music library management was much better (I miss you so so much N7 player). eBook reading was also better (Moon+ is amazing). On the other hand, even as a power user (I program Android and iOS apps for a living) it frustrated me to no end. Android is here to stay (which is great) but from a usability (i.e. user friendliness) perspective it still has so much further to go.
• nilkn 11y ago
  This was a pretty interesting article, and from the title alone I had absolutely no idea this was actually a discussion about the relative merits of web apps and native apps on phones, with the main claim being that we've nearly reached the point where web apps are viable and that Android happens to support this better at the moment. I suspect many others were caught off guard too (and perhaps did not even read it), given how many comments here are just addressing the generic issue of iOS vs. Android and all the drama that comes along with someone emphatically announcing that they've at last switched to the other side. This is why I think that rhetoric phrased in terms of one camp vs. another is often greatly counter-productive.
• kdamken 11y ago
  My only issue with iOS is that Safari doesn't play WebM. You have to download and open them with the VLC app. I wish they would just accept that it's a solid format and adapt it, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
  • mmel 11y ago
    I have an iPad and am generally happy with it, but the lack of webm support is the main thing keeping me from considering an iPhone as my next phone.
• Exuma 11y ago
  I hate any title that begins with why. Seriously, no one cares. People have opinions. Even seeing 'why' makes certain I will not read your article. Let me guess the following without even reading... * several paragraphs of whining about things that are just personal preference. * making broad/generalized wide sweeping statements and stating them as fact * tons of rhetorical questions followed by over simplified answers in support of the other product * dripping with misguided enthusiasm, using lots of words in CAPS and BOLD.
  • xigency 11y ago
    Except you didn't read the article so you don't know that it is specifically related to web application development and not "things that are just personal preference." The article makes a list of web features that Apple has dropped from the iPhone or from Safari or has neglected to implement continuously over time, and provides real enthusiasm to developers.
  • Aissen 11y ago
    If he had titled "Android is currently the best mobile web platform", I'm not sure it would have been upvoted here and therefore less read. He made the right choice.
  • petercooper 11y ago
    Seriously, no one cares. Except there are hundreds of comments, upvotes, discussions on Twitter, etc.
  • dang 11y ago
    Actually we often take leading "Why" out of titles here, so we'll do so above. It's a form of bait, as anyone who's read the first chapter of Cialdini's "Influence" knows. (I think it's the first chapter; the one that quotes a study that turned out to hinge on the word "because".) But that said, please don't post comments of pure grumpiness. It just makes this a sour place.
• mladenkovacevic 11y ago
  Been with Android since forever, but the battle for security that Apple has recently been fighting on behalf of their customers is enough to make me want to start considering iOS devices in the future.
  • bognition 11y ago
    I'm in the same camp. I've had a dozen or so android phones starting with the moto droid. I suspect my next phone will be an iPhone, although its hard to justify the price difference between a Nexus 5X and the latest iPhone
• asai 11y ago
  The web is a patchwork of different frameworks, languages and standards without any clear direction as to where its heading. Why anyone would want to work with js is also beyond me.
  • thekingshorses 11y ago
    Website is just HTML, CSS, JS. Web is open, so other people developed different frameworks for their needs. It seems that goal of the web is to reach as many users as possible without relying on any 1 technology/company.
• Zigurd 11y ago
  TL;DR (applicable to all articles in both directions): Apple software quality has gone to crap. Android is an inconsistent mess and I hate $OEM or $CARRIER bloatware. In fact, both iOS and Android are usable. If you had one or the other issued to you by an employers, it would be fine. The only shocking thing is that there isn't a third and fourth choice with a vibrant device and app ecosystem.
• S_A_P 11y ago
  Im not sure what it is about articles like these that bother me so much. Is this guy some hacker hero that I should know? I dont care what the platform is, and this is nothing to do with iOS vs Android. I really cannot stand this "why I quit x" type of blog post. Is there a reason this guys opinion matters more than anyone elses? I know I could just ignore articles like this, but it does happen to be staring me in the face at the top of the list. At the risk of irony, I would much rather see a case made for improving something than a "I chose this because its better, and I know better than you" article.
  • apocalyptic0n3 11y ago
    I don't think there's anything wrong with the article; it's a personal blog and switching mobile platforms is a pretty significant change for most people. I'd be more surprised if someone with a personal blog _didn't_ write about it. That said, I don't see why it hit the frontpage of HN. It doesn't seem to add anything of benefit discussion-wise or show anything new in my opionion
    • SquareWheel 11y ago
      >That said, I don't see why it hit the frontpage of HN. It doesn't seem to add anything of benefit discussion-wise or show anything new in my opionion I upvoted it because it showed me how exciting progressive webapps can be. I was somewhat aware of them before, but hadn't realized how close they were to native apps. It's unfortunate about the title, because the comments devolved into arguing platform wars instead of discussing the ramifications of this new technology.
  • riquito 11y ago
    Ignore who the guy is, read the article, form an opinion. You may find it interesting.
  • juliand 11y ago
    It's just an opinion. It probably bothers you because you don't like what you're reading.
  • 11y ago
• mayoff 11y ago
  I can see this reasoning being right on the money, if you can be happy building web apps. Personally, I find that developing with web technologies is a miserable experience, and developing with iOS native technologies is a joy. YMMV.
• mrcwinn 11y ago
  The argument seems to be that app developers aren't doing very well on the app store, and you're looking to the free and open web as the place where vast sums of money will be made? For the vast majority of these apps, I beg to differ. The web plays by the same rules as the app ecosystem: it's very expensive to monetize, unless of course you are creating value for someone who has money and minimal friction when paying. "Unfortunately, the web platform itself wasn’t quite ready for the spotlight yet. It was sort of possible to build web apps that looked and performed like native apps..." Are you talking about 2007 or 2016? Native apps will always outperform non-native apps - and not because of any emotional or "political" reason - but for perfectly obvious technical reasons. Web apps have an extra layer between themselves and the hardware. Native apps do not (or, at least, the layer is much thinner). Even if web apps increase in speed another 100x, native apps will be right there too. Look, at the end of the day, use Android or iOS. I don't care. I've used both. But don't switch for this reason.
  • dhimes 11y ago
    Thank you for a comment that actually speaks to the content of the article. Unfortunately it's buried under people commenting about their thoughts as a user. Which may be to the author's point: Apple's suppression (intended or not) of the web-app ecosystem has helped make the iPhone experience the (apparent) gold standard in mobile. [Note: I'm just summarizing- I don't know because it's all I use.] But I empathize with the author's view. In fact, let's not ignore the fact that some companies that have perfectly useful web pages have dreadful iPhone apps, and in those cases the web experience (even on the phone) is superior. But when you think of the ideal, you are correct and native wins.
  • mastazi 11y ago
    > Web apps have an extra layer between themselves and the hardware. True but, on the other hand, native apps require extra steps to be taken by the user (go to the App Store, download the app) which somehow makes user acquisition harder. However we could also argue that once a native app is installed, that increases the chances of user retention, i.e. the user is more likely to use that service again.
  • hrktb 11y ago
• agentgt 11y ago
  For me "Continuity" [1] (ie phone call on computer if I can't find my iphone) is the killer feature for why I stick with Apple. I know there are is something sort of like it for Android but someone showed it to me and it didn't really work. [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204681 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204681
  • glitch003 11y ago
    if you're a project fi user (android only) this happens automatically through gmail. was a bit weird the first time my gmail rang :)
    • import 11y ago
      its not same with Apple's handoff. Apple not requires internet connections and "continues everything".
• listingboat 11y ago
  But Android users never update there OS and there is a lot of old Android OS versions to support, correct? Additionally, the device manufacturers control the OS distribution and what's included.
• deleted 11y ago
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• eranation 11y ago
  I'm a Java guy, open source advocate, I love to have "power user" features and I was an android guy since android came out. I recently made a move to iOS (iPhone 6), and I'm not looking back. It has much less features, it's a walled garden and all, I have to learn a new language (or two) to be able to develop apps for it (And pay $100), but the reason I like it so much is that it simply works. Not just the software side, my android devices always had more issues, my Galaxy S III spent 3 times being fixed at Samsung for different reasons, so far with the iPhone I had no software or hardware issues. And when my wife had battery issues with her iPhone 5c, instead of taking it for fixing they just gave her a new one on the spot and apologized for the inconvenience. Simple, do-one-thing and do it right devices, that simply work. This is a classic "do more with less", less features, nothing too exciting, but the little they have simply works.
  • mercutio2 11y ago
    For many years it wasn't possible to install self signed apps on iOS. But on recent iOS versions, you no longer have to pay $100 to install apps on your own personal iOS device, you just need a matching iCloud account to self-sign from Xcode.
• SiVal 11y ago
  Apple is just taking a page from Microsoft's old playbook, sabotaging the Web platform in order to prop up the competitiveness of its native platform. When MS owned the dominant platform, they made sure that the Web browser they shipped pre-installed on every Windows machine was always just good enough to claim to be a usable Web browser (or it might have driven people away from Windows), yet always bad enough to make the Web itself look bad compared to Windows. With the biggest benefit of the Web being its reach, anything that could limit the reach of new powers could hold back its spread, and MS did hold back its spread for years. At the same time Apple, having no leverage from their own native OS of the present, touted their hardware/OS/browser stack as the best way to use the platform of the future--the Web--to make themselves more relevant in a MS-dominated world and sell more hardware. They did a lot of good for the Web platform in the past. Fast forward to today: the iPhone ignited the explosion of mobile computing and made Windows' dominance of the desktop into being merely the biggest frog in a smaller and smaller pond. MS no longer had a monopoly to defend, repented for its sins, and began to build first-rate, evergreen browsers to stay relevant in the new world. (Competition is a wonderful thing.) And Apple took their place, not as the monopoly OS in the new, big pond, but as an OS that was a large enough part of it that it could make things "not work on the Web" by making them not work on iOS. They manage to frequently be behind in getting new things to work in Safari (cf: caniuse.com), while being careful not to be so far behind that it affects their reputation with the general public and weakens them in competition with Android, and they prohibit any superior browser from interfering with this delicate "hurt the Web without hurting yourself" strategy by banning all others from iOS. The result is that anything iOS Safari can't do, Web developers can't use: iOS Safari's shortcomings appear to be the Web's shortcomings, which can be overcome by committing to Apple-proprietary alternatives. They can't afford to fall too far behind, though, or conventional wisdom will gradually emerge that iOS isn't as good as Android at "Web stuff". And as "Web stuff" improves on other platforms, the Web matters more and more as does your reputation for supporting it. If developers, blogs, pundits would talk and post about it every time iOS Safari fails, yet again, to support some new Web technology, and even release some features that work nicely on Android/Chrome but require a native app on iOS, "because, you know, the iPhone's Web support is not very good, as everyone knows...", it will increase the pressure on Apple to shift the balance of "good but not too good" farther forward.
• jamisteven 11y ago
  I for one could never go back to Android. iOS is just such a better user experience, much more fluid. Android feels like Cisco Voice's product lineup, all pieced together. fragmented applications and processes that dont work side-by-side with eachother. The other reason, which is huge to me, is the hardware. I am huge on how things feel in the hand and in my opinion apple's hardware is just far superior to anything offered for Android. Best thing I have seen hardware-wise was the Samsung Galaxy Alpha, and the Oneplus2. I miss the old Nokia days, e61/e62, that build quality was top notch, although running symbian made it a bit of a snail. I tried switching out of iOS and over to a nexus5 when it was released, I had pre-ordered it and was super excited for it to come in, but the hardware felt like total shit to me, and after a month I swapped back to iOS. Im still rocking an original iphone5 thats jailbroken, works better than that N5 any day of the week. Much like cars, it isnt about the size of the engine, or the tech it comes with, its about the whole package and how it all works together, as a unit.
  • jamisteven 11y ago
    Also worth mentioning, I think the design of the hardware on the new Iphone6 are a massive screwup. For instance how rounded the edges are, they should have a curvature, but not as drastic as it is currently. And the protruding lens from the back of the phone, jobs is surely rolling in his grave over that one.
  • deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  • klarrimore 11y ago
    Nexus 5 was like a $300 phone.
  • deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  • odbol_ 11y ago
    > fragmented applications and processes that dont work side-by-side with eachother Are you joking? I just tried to email some screenshots to myself from my iPhone. Couldn't do it. It only let me send one image at a time. There was literally no way to make multiple attachments, and if you are trying to attach something that's not in Camera roll, good luck! (I only went the email route because its 2016 and I still can't just send a file from my iPhone to my computer via Bluetooth). On Android, its a simple matter of selecting all the photos (in pretty much ANY gallery app, doesn't have to be the OS included one), and hitting share: I could send to my computer via Bluetooth, or attach to an email, in like 2 clicks. Android's interoperability and system for how apps can share data and work with each other is unparalleled. iOS has a long way to go on that front...
• merpnderp 11y ago
  The point about the full web app experience is a good one. And while Android's Nexus One left me high and dry on promises of continual updates and pushed me into my iPhone 4s from which I've never come back. If iOS doesn't get full support for service workers soon, I'll have to look again at Android.
• r0m4n0 11y ago
  Interesting opinion. I am struggling to think of a single standalone webapp I would benefit from... I use a few native apps that work flawlessly and the clean out of the box functionality for phone calls and web browsing. I guess I'll stick with IOS (shrug)
• nevir 11y ago
  Another iOS -> Android switcher here. I owned every iPhone up to and including an iPhone 6, and then switched to a Nexus 6. From my perspective, the two platforms (and when I talk about Android, I mean Android-on-a-Nexus) are pretty much homogenous. They look and feel very similar, behave similarly, etc, etc.
• brodo 11y ago
  Yay for intellectual diversity!
• vjeux 11y ago
  I want to clarify some points on React Native. Unlike what is commonly said, my goal with the project is to make the web better. A fundamental problem with the web as it exists right now is that as a "user", you cannot go one level deeper when you want/have to in order to provide a good experience. There's a big list of things like customizing image decoding/caching or extending layout part of css that is encoded in the browser and cannot be changed in userland. The way to solve your problem is to convince a browser vendor to implement a solution, then all the other browsers to support it and wait for years such that your userbase can use it. This loop is extremely long and involves a lot of conflicting interests and having to support it forever. The idea of React Native is to provide a subset of the web platform and hooks to drop down lower whenever you want to. For example, as a user you can use <Image> which behaves like a web <img> and be done with your day. But, if you want to use another image format, or manage your image cache differently then you can implement it and provide a <MyImage> component to the end user. The advantage is that each app can start building and experimenting with its own low-level infrastructure and replace pieces that the default platform doesn't do adequately for the use case they are trying to solve. Now, why is it good for the web? Since React Native primitives have been designed to work on the web with a small polyfill ( https://github.com/necolas/react-native-web https://github.com/necolas/react-native-web ), there's now a concrete way to improve the web platform without being a browser vendor. You can prototype with your ideas on React Native and when you figure that one is actually good, now start the process to ship it to the entire web platform. Kind of the same way you can prototype your js transforms with babel and then push them to tc39 to make them official. If React Native is as successful as I want it to be, the web platform is going to supports all the use cases that only React Native can provide today and we can just rm -rf the entire project and use the web.
• yegle 11y ago
  The author forgot a key point: webapp allows you to reuse cookies in browser so users don't need to login again from your app.
• rcarmo 11y ago
  I tried to do this a few years back and it was completely impossible to order anything from the Google store and have it delivered to Portugal. Although I routinely rebuilt Android to reflash my Nook Color and even rebuilt Android x86 for the "Magalhães" school laptops on a lark, I could not beg, borrow or steal an Android device with "proper", vanilla Android for myself without resorting to shady imports and zero warranty. So after a year of using an HTC One[1] and, later, a moderately vanilla LG 4, I quietly went back to the iPhone, got a Nexus 7 (2013) to scratch my occasional Android development itch, and haven't looked back. The ecosystem is _so_ much better, Safari on it (and my iPad) still knocks Chrome on Android out of the park from a user perspective, and I can tinker all I want on stuff like the Remix PC and the ODROID without having to put up with a lousy phone user experience. Would I use Android? Yes, for sure - but I wouldn't _like_ it. Would I develop for it? Sure, no problem. Did that for digital signage, even[2]. Would I develop for it _first_? Doubtful. The only serious money in it is in vertical (B2B) apps and suchlike. Would I develop web apps for it _first_? Like... are you serious? With the market being what it is? So although I "get" the article, I think it's not that realistic. [1]: http://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2013/10/20/2230 http://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2013/10/20/2230 [2]: https://github.com/rcarmo/android-signage-client https://github.com/rcarmo/android-signage-client
• mastazi 11y ago
  Just yesterday, I switched back to Android after 4 years of iOS and I am really really pleased. I especially like the interoperability between apps and the "draw over other apps" capability. In relation to the linked post: 1- I'm not 100% convinced that web-based apps are always the way to go on mobile platforms, there are many pros and cons. 2- While Chrome for Android supports a wider array of web standards[1], that difference doesn't (yet) seem very significant looking at various sources such as caniuse.com. I just wish Apple was working more actively on Safari develpment, both on desktop and mobile: they started from a very good position (e.g. the circa-2010 Safari for iOS was vastly better than the circa-2010 Android browser) and they are now rapidly losing ground. [1] http://caniuse.com/#compare=ios_saf+9.0-9.2,and_chr+49 http://caniuse.com/#compare=ios_saf+9.0-9.2,and_chr+49
• sjenson 11y ago
  Nearly all of the comments here are missing the point of this blog post. The author likes Progressive Web apps, they are important to him. He's moving to Android because it supports the web better. That's it. This isn't iOS vs Android and it certainly isn't web vs native. Yes, the article is critical of native apps (and the app store) so I can see how you'd go there but it's a distraction. I see this article as an"I want to use the best mobile web platform possible" argument.
  • ctvo 11y ago
    Exactly. I'm not sure why people are giving anecdotes about switching to iOS from Android like the blog post was about a personal device usage decision vs. a decision to switch developmental platform due to better support for the web. It's one of the better written blog posts, and has convinced me to look at PWAs. The future he outlines with seamless installations and cross-platform fallback IS something I want to get to.
  • megablast 11y ago
    Yes, but he sure did waffle on quite a lot until he got to that point. There was a lot of words with little reward in the beginning.
  • zippergz 11y ago
    The title invites debate about the platforms and pros/cons thereof. If the title were about progressive web apps, I suspect the entire discussion here would be different.
  • stephendedalus 11y ago
    You're absolutely correct. I participated in the above conversation because it's interesting, but you're right that it's missing the point. The original blog post is really thoughtful. I enjoyed it.
  • cbeach 11y ago
    I guess if the original poster had chosen a better title for his HN submission, like "Android's good for progressive web apps" he wouldn't have started a flame war. "I ditched iPhone for Android" is always going to rekindle the iPhone vs Android flame war. The original poster is to blame. It's a pity Android fans always feel the need to compare everything they do to Apple's software and devices. I guess it's the imposter syndrome that comes with being 2nd to the marketplace?
• RogueIMP 11y ago
  My first smart phone was an iPhone 4. After switching to the Galaxy S3, I was sold! Apple is good for users who was a device that is simple, set in it's was and easy to use. It makes it hard to break. Android makes a phone that has unlimited potential, but at your own risk. As an IT, I'm a tinkerer... so I prefer the later. :) All about preferences.
• agumonkey 11y ago
  All this makes me wonder if we should change the whole idea of device, users, business.
• ignoramous 11y ago
  I am not entirely sure if Android is the best mobile platform out there. Apple continues to innovate at an incredible pace on its hardware and software. It is untouchable as far as HCI is concerned, they just seem to get most of the UX right. Its amazing to see them make computers that work and behave like a charm. Pricing is unreasonable, TBH. And that's where Android eco-system has held an upper edge for too long now. Android as a platform, superior enough technology-wise, is terrible 'fragmentation' wise. Apple's laser sharp focus on UX around their entire line-up is commendable. To an extent, they think about their end-users at a level unparalleled at other tech companies-- not supporting flash, pushing aggressively ahead with ad-blocker support, adding a voice-enabled assistant, iCloud etc Apple's radical re-think of a smart-phone is a miracle. Almost everyone before them got it wrong. They are operating on some other level altogether. Google, I think except for Google Now and their notifications scheme on Android have mostly been playing a catch-up with iOS. I think Google faces the same issue with their Cloud offerings too. All the talk of the most advance platform/tech in the world and they still languish behind AWS and Azure.
  • pawelkomarnicki 11y ago
    Yeah the "Back" button in the top-left corner of a large device can be classified as a pinnacle of HCI and usability research ;-)
  • jeffbax 11y ago
    "It is untouchable as far as HCI is concerned" (among the "it just work's" argument, or the privacy advantages, generally superior ecosystem, etc) and yet "Pricing is unreasonable". The dissonance… is strong with nerds who think the only thing that contributes to a product's price is it's raw spec sheet (where again, Apple is generally quite a bit ahead). Clearly, things are not equal and Apple's sales mean millions are giving them a thumbs up in regard to their pricing being reasonable.
• zanny 11y ago
  I'm actually going to be on topic off topic, but I seriously hope that somehow we have celestial alignment and QML can somehow take off as the defacto networked app standard. HTML/CSS/JS is a document format, styling for said documents, and a language cooked up in a week to bake into a browser in the 90s. And the 90s language is the best part! QML is ground up meant to write interfaces in, and provide all kinds of critical functionality you would want on everything from mobile to televisions to toasters to your desktop: * Hardware acceleration everywhere. * DPI scaling. * Ability to write controls in native C++ or as composite elements in QML itself. * Signals and slots throughout all aspects of the framework, instead of callback hell. * Intuitive and first class animations support. * Native look and feel on almost all platforms through the Controls API, with the ability to restyle them however you want. * All aspects of the framework support network transparency. You can associate resources remotely or locally, and all the necessary properties to track loading and downloading are available, and the API handles component loading from web services much more intuitively than HTML script / css loading. I love QML a lot, and there is even a project called qmlweb to run it in the browser, but I really want to see http://test.org/app.qml http://test.org/app.qml be a thing. Having written my share of web applications and QML ones, I have no idea why anyone thinks spreading the design disaster of the traditional web to encompass all user software is the best we can achieve.
• incepted 11y ago
  > Of course I don’t know the full backstory, but it sure seemed like the original plan for 3rd party developers on iOS was to have us all just build apps using the web. Correct, there was no SDK on the first generation iPhone. It was a closed device, like all Apple devices. And that's how Jobs wanted it, he just thought that the idea of third party applications running on this device was pure absurdity. Then Android came out and Jobs had to adapt. > Apple made what turned out to be a really smart business decision: they released an iOS SDK and an App Store and the rest is history. Kind of. Apple made a really smart business decision: they realized that if they didn't match Android and provide an SDK as well, they would lose. So they followed suit. > The end result, for those of us still trying to build installable web apps for iOS was that with nearly every new iOS release some key feature that we were depending on broke. This makes it sound as if these features got accidentally broken. No, they were intentionally removed or crippled because they either threatened Apple's dominance or cut into their profits. You could call that another set of "really smart business decisions"
• abpavel 11y ago
  "I want the ability to create app-like experiences on the OS with web technology. Very little seems to be happening in that regard as far as I can tell" I'm not sure why this doesn't sound like a compelling reason for a switch. I find the maintenance aspect much more persuasive. Usually people are paid to do sysops, administering, maintaining and tinkering with OS. It's a job. And handsomely paid at that. Doing the sysops job and having to pay for it, just to maintain your own phone, seems like a bad economical proposition.
• alexchantavy 11y ago
  It'd be more accurate to title the article "Why Apple needs to treat Progressive Web Apps as first-class citizens". It's less about iOS-vs-Android than it is about eliminating friction between the web and mobile apps. I enjoyed this analysis very much but if the article wasn't so highly upvoted already I might have skipped over it due to the title.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• Jonasen 11y ago
  Late bloomer, you say? :)
• cdevs 11y ago
  He basically list all the reasons I've stayed away from android. As a tech toy it's fun to play with but as a everyday phone it scares the hell out of me security wise when every minute they are opening up the attack surface. So I've been with iPhone every since, it opens emails, reads text and webpages I barely open the App Store anymore. But I can see your side as I love writing code and tearing things apart to mod - I just decide my phone wouldn't be one.
• rachkovsky 11y ago
  How about in-app purchases? Wouldn't it be harder to implement low friction flow?
• pawelkomarnicki 11y ago
  For me these two platforms are more-or-less the same from a user perspective. There're some cosmetic changes, like notifications are handled better on Android by bundling them, instead of pinging for every single one of them. Apps are usually on both platforms, same with games. iOS users at my work seem interested and impressed by the Nexus 6P, some consider the possibility to switch someday. But it really doesn't matter as long as the device get the stuff done, does it? :P
• jshelly 11y ago
  These statements and arguments are so pointless these days. Use whatever you prefer and be happy.
• ianai 11y ago
  Speaking solely as a user, I don't want to run that sort of application.