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I completely agree with the author of the article. Apple is the real-world incarnation of the economic premise of Huxley's "A Brave New World". This was just th

by waspleg 11y ago

I completely agree with the author of the article. Apple is the real-world incarnation of the economic premise of Huxley's "A Brave New World". This was just the mask dropping for a second to pander to the faithful. I'd like to add, as someone who works at K12 public high school, that I've seen the reality of the article played out. My building is 100% free lunch, most are extremely poor, and yet there is a sizable number with new iphones. Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such. In American society poverty is associated with failure on many levels. We have our caste system as much as India, only ours is economic, and enforced ruthlessly with endless class warfare - largely in one direction.

zepto 11y ago
You and the author make the assumption that smartphones are commodities of equal value. This may not be true. Additionally the author takes Schiller's comments out of context. He went on to explain that the reason they think the new iPad will appeal to the people who have old windows computers is that it is more suited to a world which has the internet. The implication is that nobody, including Apple, has actually offered a product that has enough extra value for PC owners to decide to buy until now. The awkwardness and insinuations about class are just being read in by the author.
rileymat2 11y ago
I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I would want to give up. The utility of the device is incredible: Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography. If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. It would be a great way to improve their lives for a somewhat modest cost. I am not sure it is all for looks. Maybe we could quibble about whether they should have an iPhone or some cheaper smartphone. I am just saying, it could be more for utility than image.
- bwindels 11y ago
  I know I would, Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring are also my primary use cases, but there are devices that cost a lot less than an iPhone that do those things just as good or even better.
- jwoah12 11y ago
  You just described the functionality of every single phone on the market, though. Almost all of which are much less expensive than the iPhone.
  - Retric 11y ago
    A SE is $399, sure you can get an ok phone for less than that. But, ED: even if that's significantly more than a 'cheap' phone it's not that expensive compared to a cellphone plan. People look at things as symptoms, but it's mostly ongoing costs that are real issues.
    - falcolas 11y ago
      Cheap phones are actually in the $60 price range. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Prevail-White-Mobile/dp/B00SHZJ6BO http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Prevail-White-Mobile/dp... http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-640-Annual-Contract/dp/B012CKVZ18 http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-640-Annual-Contract/dp/B01...
      - Retric 11y ago
        I thought those where locked/discounted phones. First is: Boost (67.99), or Sprint prepaid (104$) Second is: AT&T Go Phone only. But, it looks like you can get a new unlocked smartphone for 60$. http://www.amazon.com/BLU-Advance-5-0-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp/B018IZ0VLQ/ http://www.amazon.com/BLU-Advance-5-0-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp...
        falcolas 11y ago
        Gotta love regional pricing. I see Galaxy phone as $57, the Lumia is $44. That they are locked to a particular provider makes them not really any different than your average phone. They do have the advantage of not locking you into a 2+ year contract. Nice find on the BLU though.
        andrewpi 11y ago
        I bought a prepaid Moto E for $39.99 and activated it on Ringplus (a Sprint MVNO that offers free data/text/minutes every month) as a backup phone.
- merpnderp 11y ago
  Especially when the iPhone's cost is calculated over the lifetime of the device and the quality of the hardware. Apple's latest iOS version 9.3 just dropped. And the 5 year old iPhone 4s along with every iPad except the original just got that update. What other device would be safe to use with personal information and be just as usable after 5 years? At the original full price that comes to around $80/year. With the additional street cred of owning an iPhone?
  - tdkl 11y ago
    Sorry, but claiming 4 year old devices are usable with iOS 9 is a joke. The rule of a thumb with iPhones is that you update n+1 version your phone shipped with. Anything more kills the performance to almost a standstill. I won't go into the debate if it's intentionally or not, but as sure isn't with much added value.
    - merpnderp 11y ago
      You say that, but the guy sitting right behind me happily used his 4s until last month. And he's a heavy app user, installing all sorts of stuff, from flight tracking, weird weather apps, bird watching, whatever. I'm not sure if that counts as a joke from where I'm from.
      - tdkl 11y ago
        There, a test on the 4S : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J6R0NnqOzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J6R0NnqOzc If you look at it this way - all that's changed are "clients", the data displayed is the same for both. But only on one phone the system experience is enjoyable. I guess Schiller forgot about that they once had a good optimized mobile OS.
  - sz4kerto 11y ago
    One of my friend is not particularly well off, to say the least. Until a month or so ago he had been using a HTC Desire that he got for free from somebody. He used email, mapping, alarm clock, calendar, instant messaging. On a 5 year old phone.
- noxToken 11y ago
  >I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I would want to give up. If you have an iPhone and then become poor, sure. You probably won't get ahead much by getting rid of your iPhone. If you're already poor, then an iPhone (not a smartphone) is definitely a luxury. There are capable smartphones for much cheaper then an iPhone that could get the job done. That's what GP was likely getting at. >If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. I am not aware of a socialized plan to put phone in the hands of poor people, but they are getting increasingly cheaper. You can get Samsung Galaxy line (not the flagship model) phones from cheap, prepaid carriers. Wi-Fi is becoming increasingly available, which makes the limited data plans not that bad of a drawback.
  - JohnBooty 11y ago
    > If you're already poor, then an iPhone (not a smartphone) is definitely a luxury. It's not wrong, nor necessarily economically irresponsible, for "poor" people to have a few nice things. Assuming a lifespan of 3 years, the cost difference between a $600 phone and a $300 phone is barely more than $0.25 per day - and probably even less, considering that iPhones have a higher resale value. Maybe that "poor person" carrying an iPhone just forgoes $0.25 or $0.50 of other niceties per day so they can afford that iPhone and those $100 shoes - or maybe they just work in a city, because you can literally find that much money on the ground every day if you keep your eyes peeled. If a person routinely made such purchases, to the detriment of their well-being, certainly that could be a problem. But unless we know somebody's full financial picture we should not presume to make such a judgement.
    - em3rgent0rdr 11y ago
      I don't think the OP's criticism is on the "poor person", but rather on the fact that Apple's business model and marketing scheme is premised on a false need to buy some new "revolutionary" iThing which actually offers little or no functional benefit over a perfectly fine older PC or less-powerful android.
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- throwanem 11y ago
  With a little forethought and initial investment, you don't have to decide between giving up an iPhone and continuing to pay three figures monthly for the privilege of using it. Consider: Sprint - ostensibly free phone, $120/mo for a 2-year contract: $2880 all told, and you don't have a choice but to pay all of it Ting - $500 up front for 64G iPhone SE, avg. $27.50/mo for the same period: $1160 all told, and you can stop service any time if things get bad enough that you have to Sure, if you can't make the initial nut, it's not an option - but you're talking about being suddenly broke or close to it, which is the situation in which I found myself last year, and which motivated me to put some thought into better options for mobile service. The more I look at it, the more it seems to me that mobile contracts, at least in the US and at least for single phones, are every bit as much for suckers as rent-to-own shops are.
  - uptown 11y ago
    Buy pre-used phone (~$50 for an older-gen device). Use pre-paid phone service. (~$40/month). Doesn't need to be expensive if you're willing to forgo the latest and 'greatest'. I use pre-paid Verizon anyway since it's the best deal for my usage pattern.
  - raisedbyninjas 11y ago
    Project Fi is a prepaid service and allows you to finance the phone. Currently the cheapest is $200 for the Nexus 5x.
  - goldbrick 11y ago
    Or, if you live in a city with ubiquitous wifi, buy an iPod touch and use Google Voice/Hangouts. $200 up front, free/mo thereafter.
- andrepd 11y ago
  A <100$ smartphone can do all of those things.
- matthewaveryusa 11y ago
  I'm with you on this one. I've never owned an iphone because I'm cheap, but when you see a poor person with an iphone it's not a phone they have in their hands -- it's _the_ only device they have to connect to the internet and communicate. That being said, you can get a motorola G lte for 100 bucks.
- deleted 11y ago
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- smarx007 11y ago
  First, let's get the internet part clear. Mobile internet is consistently more expensive that fixed line (in xUSSR at least). And as somebody with more than 1 degree, I can tell you that you don't need an iphone map, phone, alarm, or camera functionality to make your life better, while internet and email on a mobile device is counterproductive. If you really want to save money and get better, go buy a core 2 duo desktop pc for less than $100 and a simple internet connection. Turn on the pomodoro. Turn off your phone. Reply to all your emails. Get some quality study/work time.
  - bryondowd 11y ago
    Well, I pay $5 for the limited data plan on my phone, here in the US (Walmart Family Mobile). That's on top of $25/mo primary line and $20/mo additional lines. The cheapest internet line for my home I could find was around $30 at a promotional rate, which bumped up to $45 after a year. Yes, I can get more data per dollar out of that $45 line, but aside from entertainment purposes, I can get by on my 1GB of data. Or I could bump it to 5GB for another $10 and that would get me by on everything short of regular streaming or large downloads. So, being frugal, it does make sense in some cases to just get a cheap phone with a data plan, even more so if you don't need a home PC, as many poor folk.
    - smarx007 11y ago
      I now live in EU and can relate to your experiences. But when I was referring to what struggling folk need, I meant what can really improve their position. And I hope you understand that it's not something like 9gag, but udacity. And udacity is a pain on a tablet (let alone phone) if you do the exercises.
      - bryondowd 11y ago
        Well, a phone is enough for many useful services. Putting in applications, gathering information, etc. Then there's tethering for a cheap internet solution if you can get a hold of a desktop/laptop. But really, if we're talking about improving one's lot through education, the best bet would probably be a local community college, which should have their own computer rooms. I don't know much about udacity and the like, but I'm not sure there's a route there for people in my neck of the woods, at least. Any local tech jobs want a Bachelor's degree.
- xlm1717 11y ago
  >If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. It sure as hell won't be iPhones we get into the hands of the poor. There are regional mvno's/prepaid carriers here who pretty much give away cheap android phones to get on their cheap plans.
- akerro 11y ago
  >Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography. Soo... It does exactly the same as my LG with Android 2.2 that costed me ~$70 2.5 years ago?
- widowlark 11y ago
  I think you're off base. There are plenty of devices out there (android, windows phone) which have all the utility of the iPhone, but cost half the price of the iPhone (or less). To suggest that an iPhone is the only device capable of these things and therefore is a fixed cost is incorrect, IMO
- kbart 11y ago
  " Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography." All these are easily available for a fraction of iPhone's/iPad's price.
- rdtsc 11y ago
  I have money and the utility of iPhone is what I don't want. Instead opted for a cheap Moto G basic model 4-5 years ago and still happy with it.
- jinst8gmi 11y ago
  > I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I would want to give up. Poor is when you have to dig through other peoples' trash to find food (I see this every week). I'm pretty sure you you really ended up poor you wouldn't give a damn about your iPhone except to sell it to buy food.
- spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
  But can get a nice Motorola for £150 and a £7 month sim - you dont need a Iphone do do all that
- chetanahuja 11y ago
  "Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography." You realize those features are not unique to iPhone... right? "Maybe we could quibble about whether they should have an iPhone or some cheaper smartphone. I am just saying, it could be more for utility than image." The whole point is that buying an iPhone as opposed to an equally capable cheaper smartphone is done for branding and image.
- virtualritz 11y ago
  Why do you need an iPhone for that? A Moto G will do all of that, at a fraction of the price.
- sametmax 11y ago
  you can live with none of that. You can have internet at school on a needing basic. You don't need it in your pocket. You can live without mapping, a dumb phone with alarm clock and be done with it. If you live by the cent, no, the iPhone is not a priority. I didn't have a smartphone before 4 months ago, and it was fine. And if you are at school, then it's even easier. The biggest problem is the social isolation, since now a lot of kids interactions are going through apps.
- tagrun 11y ago
  A 50$ Android smartphone can do all of those, and more.
ff10 11y ago
Why is it Apple that's a real-world incarnation of Huxley's world? Why is it not the whole society itself (including Apple as a very prominent figure) – as you aptly described with your observations – that is the real real-world incarnation of the Brave New World?
BackPropagate 11y ago
Ok, then! Let's move on to Phase Two of "Internet Mob Rules". Let's start a change.org petition and Brendan-Eich him out of of his job for being insensitive.
kdamken 11y ago
I'd disagree, no one is forcing people to buy iPhones. If the kids all have iPhones, then they have parents who aren't very good at not buying things they can't afford and teaching their kids that worth doesn't come from possessions.
- Ntrails 11y ago
  At a guess a lot of the phones are bought on payment plans with carriers - so the up front cost is relatively manageable but you're paying for 2 years. This kind of deal is much much harder to value correctly and for sure people are looking at it as a "we can find $40 a month" rather than "that's equivalent to a price of $900 - can we afford that?".
  - kdamken 11y ago
    I'm sad that I can't disagree with you. Most people don't realize how much those monthly (and daily) expenses add up. A huge failing of our society is that we don't teach people how to be responsible with money. All they see are ads telling them to buy more, spend all your money, keep up with the Joneses. Either you have parents who teach you, or you figure it out on your own. And for the poorer people, it's just a cycle where they don't know, so their kids don't know.
    - Scea91 11y ago
      I just wonder sometimes if it is really that hard to figure this on their own. We can't teach every basic thing to everyone. I would hope that people are able to figure such obvious things on their own. It is really strange that they don't.
      - kdamken 11y ago
        Most people just don't know any better. And when the social norm is spending all your money (and then some) on things you don't need, most people don't even realize there's another option. I myself didn't realize until I stumbled upon Mr. Money Mustache two years ago (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/), and it kind of woke me up. Now I buy way less, save at least half my income every month, and am overall much happier.
ultramancool 11y ago
I'm not so sure about that. I could fairly easily afford a new iPhone or some other flagship device like that. Yet if I were to buy a new phone right now... factory refurb Nexus 5 on for $150 USD is probably the most tempting option. If the cheap ass option does everything you'll need, you still don't waste money on the more expensive one. I'm guessing this combination more than likely just boils down to some people who aren't very good at making financial decisions...
- zanny 11y ago
  You can get a refurbished Moto G 2013 for $35. I have a huge number of people in my extended family on those, since they are not techies and just want a good phone.
  - wstrange 11y ago
    We have two in the family as well. They are solid, good quality phones. Best value on the market today.
    - ams6110 11y ago
      I have one as do two of my kids. $10/month for Republic Wireless, and we're set.
PaulHoule 11y ago
I had to drive to the ghetto to get a prepaid phone that works on the Verizon network but people from the ghetto drive to the fake Verizon store to get their smartphone.
ethbro 11y ago
The K12 public school (I'm assuming Title 1 from the free lunches) comment struck especially close to home. A few years ago, in helping my mother get ready for a new year of kindergarten teaching at a similar school, she asked if I could do anything about the computers (slow, unreliable, etc etc). ... In ~2013, the best processor of the four machine lot was a 2.8ghz P4. With 2GB of RAM. It had obviously been cobbled together by a well-meaning local computer shop, as it used quality components, and yes, this was kindergarten. But still, my mother and her like occasionally liked to show kinds YouTube videos to reinforce lessons. When the OLPC project came out there were a fair amount of notes about how technological progress can make things better or cheaper, and corporations always choose better (because margins, capturing value, avoiding commodity status, etc etc). But that thrust leaves a lot of people ill-served.
- ido 11y ago
  Surely that pentium 4 has no trouble showing youtube videos?
  - lfowles 11y ago
    Single core is a lot worse than I remembered. I had booted up my wife's college desktop with a P4 in it. Pretty unusable experience, I eventually gave up on trying to reinstall Windows before giving it away.
  - makomk 11y ago
    Pentium 4's pretty bad by modern standards, unfortunately. It's well over a decade old and wasn't all that great even when it was introduced. I think the cut-off for "good enough to be used today" is somewhere around the Core 2 Duo which was introduced a decade ago and was a huge step up from the Pentium 4.
- FD3SA 11y ago
  That well meaning computer shop probably assumed someone would understand that you could throw Lubuntu on that computer and have it work flawlessly. The common mistake people make is trying to run modern, bloated software on old computers.
norea-armozel 11y ago
Conspicuous consumption is the perennial vice of our species. Pyramids, Cathedrals, fast cars, diamond jewelry, fancy suits, and now iPads and iPhones. I swear as much effort goes into these things I think we could've at least solved the problem of starvation by now.
- s_q_b 11y ago
  I've often thought conspicuous consumption is largely just a message to the world of one's fitness as a mate. If so, sexual selection produces some very interesting and complex but functionally "useless" objects.
  - norea-armozel 11y ago
    I think there's plenty of ways to signal you're a good provider or good in bed without throwing the entire viability of both into money pits of useless junk. It just takes more skull sweat to figure that out on a case-by-case basis.
    - s_q_b 11y ago
      Sure, but now you're just showcasing a different skill set that has high survival utility, namely cognitive ability. My hypothesis is that complex cognitive activities are one way humans measure fitness as a mate. Conspicuous consumption implies, "Hey, not only was I able to acquire all of this shiny stuff, I have so much I can afford to use it on useless things."
Spooky23 11y ago
I would disagree that the iPhones in your school represent a keeping up with the Joneses. Smartphones are swiss army knives that provide a ton of benefit to folks without the resources to buy lots of different devices. Through the myriad of purchasing schemes available, the real cost difference between an iPhone/Galaxy and a cheap android device amounts to a couple of bucks a month. When I was a kid in the 90s, kids, even kids without lots of money, wasted lots of the money they have access to on music. That money spent on tapes and CDs is similar to a data plan. Except the data plan + wifi gives you access to a world of services from phone, texting, music, tv, etc. Personally, I think if I had very little in the way of resources, I would choose a smartphone investment over a TV, radio, and many other things. Its a high return product.
- omaranto 11y ago
  I agree that a smartphone can be a useful investment, but aren't iPhones really expensive (as are "flagship" Android phones)? My smartphone cost me about $90 unlocked, my wife's $130. I thought we were saving several hundreds of dollars compared to buying iPhones or a fancy Android phone.
cat-dev-null 11y ago
Absolutely true... as another anecdotal example, one of my mechanics in his 20's is also an Uber driver and has a brand new iPhone 6s Plus. Also, the prevalence of gold-collar workers splurging on old (and increasingly expensive to maintain) Lexus, Acuras, BMWs, Mercedes, etc. Contrast this with folks whom have wealth and do everything possible to look fashionably broke (or at least "if you've got it, hide it"): torn jeans, Urban Outfitter, etc. People tend to project the opposite of their insecurities, and in so doing, reveal them, consciously or not. Peter Thiel describes a number of bad pitches whereby founders describe how big they're unlikely to be, whereas projects with actual traction tend to feign smallness.
- erroneousfunk 11y ago
  A mechanic in his 20's who also drives an Uber? Sounds like exactly the sort of person who would probably be able to afford, and get tremendous value from, an iPhone 6s Plus. Mechanics make good money, and having a side income is all just extra cash for a guy in his 20's that probably doesn't have a lot in the way of bills. Super fast processor, latest GPS chip and assisted GPS software, extra large screen to view the map at a glance while driving... Most of the bad experiences I've had with Uber have been caused by problems with the driver's phone or GPS, not their car. Investing in good (and relatively cheap, all things considered) equipment is probably a wise move here. And I would't say Urban Outfitters looks "cheap" It looks like Urban Outfitters. The point of a brand new Joy Division "concert" shirt and torn jeans isn't to fool people. Jeans with a pattern of distress marks in front upper thigh and "patch" machine stitching on the back? Expensive (tacky, but expensive). Jeans where both knees have a horizontal split that's threatening to extend to the side seams? Cheap. I would argue that people with "wealth" haven't really been a big demographic at Urban Outfitters lately, anyway. "Understated" clothing brands like Everlane, Calvin Klein seem to be more popular in the US.
- bluecalm 11y ago
  Or they try to project image to differentiate themseves from the social class just below. It's ok for super rich to dress like a college student but not alike to upper middle class person as then the plan could backfire should people actually believe the projection. I remember a great essay about the phenomenon: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/
petra 11y ago
One thing most of us here might agree on - beyond everything else - the iPhone is a status symbol - carrying some social value. So one interesting question is - how can this be disrupted(by a phone costing half the price) ? Is it even possible ?
- majani 11y ago
  It'll just run out of fashion with time. 10 years ago, flip phones, slide up phones and two ways were the status symbols. Fashion is cyclical, maybe we'll see the return of the flip? :)
- SonicSoul 11y ago
  good question. by definition status is achieved by something hard to obtain. Either based on price ore availability? I can't even think of any example of the latter. Growing up all the "cool" things were out of my reach entirely based on cost..
  - petra 11y ago
    That's a good way to look at it. Maybe Google can create a good $300 brand, but sells it only to people with certain qualities/experiences ? For example, if you volunteer - that could be one kind of status?
melling 11y ago
Gosh, I love a good nerd debate but I always feel like it's a complete waste of time. Maybe this time is different? Perhaps if people whine loud enough, Apple won't make jokes about people with 5 year old PC's. They're probably trying to get a piece of that Windows XP market. If you're using a > 5 year old XP box, there's a reasonable possibility that a new iPad Pro might satisfy your needs[1]; at least Apple wants you to consider it. Instead the political correct "people" of the world debate endlessly about the nuances, while not adding a bit of value themselves. 'Do you fucking know that there are some people in this world who would be grateful for that computer?!". I don't think Apple was talking to them but don't let that stop you from getting on a soapbox. Computers, and technology in general, are something that all kids should master before they're adults. Smartphones are great tools. Do some of that homework while you're between things. Learn another language (http://duolingo.com http://duolingo.com). Scratch that artistic itch, write a story, collaborate on school projects via the cloud, or work on a blog, even if no one reads it. Learn better English by debating on Reddit (not on HN, of course). Take lots of pictures and create movies. Also, there's nothing wrong with a good Android phone. Learn the differences well, and don't pick one phone like it's a religion. [1] No one said it works for everyone. Please don't explain all the use cases it doesn't handle.
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elipsey 11y ago
If you carefully read the fine article, you will notice that the author states: "There are really only two reasons why people might have a computer that’s more than five years old: 1. They can’t afford an upgrade. 2. They don’t need an upgrade." and then proceeds to examine and _dismiss_ #1 as a plausible motive for these comments. What he is complaining about is disposable hardware. I am also bothered by this trend, and I'm concerned that it may become more difficult over time to avoid it. I'm typing this on a T430 with a removable hard drive, two SSD's, new RAM, new keyboard, new screen, new fan, and new OS. Try that with MacBook. If _certain_ tech companies have their way it will be impossible to do anything useful with a machine that hasn't got a crypto-locked boot loader and soldered on hardware. It's debatable whether planned obsolescence is a motivating goal for this. (It is arguable that semi manufactures are mostly competing with their own older hardware, and they aren't competing as well as they used to; phones still improve like PC's in the 90's, but that's not sustainable in the long run.) In any case, planned obsolescence is at least a side effect of building non-upgradeable hardware, and that means you'll be compelled to throw away your hardware more often, whether you can afford to or not. For Apple, this means that 5 year old hardware _has_ to pathetic, and they obviously wouldn't admit that anyone else's is less pathetic than theirs.
- ok_craig 11y ago
  Not sure we read the same article. The author did not dismiss #1 as a plausible motive. He dismissed it as the likely motive, to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, from fear about what it would mean about them otherwise.
  - elipsey 11y ago
    "Door number two. What Schiller probably meant to suggest was that Apple’s targeting old PC users who simply haven’t felt compelled to update yet but could afford to." He said the second thing is what "What Schiller probably meant". Maybe this shouldn't reasonably be construed as a "dismissal". This interpretation is more generous towards Apple than supposing they mean to overtly mock the poor, and I supposed the author meant that this would be beneath them. Apparently that's debatable :)
- 11y ago
neovive 11y ago
Very true. It could also be due to the long-term contracts that parents commit to as part of the family plans with iPhones attached. It's just another monthly expense that has become like a hard to give up utility.
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mangeletti 11y ago
> Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such. This is not necessarily correct. A lot of people still regard iPhones and other high-end smartphones as being something of a luxury. They are a luxury when you compare them to what we need for survival (food, water, shelter), but there is something to be said about a small rectangular device that, once purchased, can provide nearly free: 1. entertainment 2. education (Wikipedia, etc.) 3. news 4. photography 5. social connection 6. documentation of events (note taking, video, etc.) 7. voice recording 8. calculator 9. more complex tools (graphing calculator, 12C, etc.) 10. flash light 11. access to e-commerce (save money on things you need) 12. e-readers (text books that might otherwise be cost-prohibitive) The list goes on, but, for all of its negatives, the value of a high-quality smartphone like an iPhone can't be over-stated. In fact, when you consider all the things it replaces, including entertainment, poor people almost cannot afford to not have a smartphone. Whether the additional value of an iPhone or other high-end device (Galaxy, etc.), compared to a low-end smartphone, pays for the increase in cost, is definitely debatable.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  Smartphone != iphone I spent $250 on mine and it is does everything meaningful that an iphone does. Iphone is definitely a luxury even among smartphones.
  - schnide05095 11y ago
    Correct. But look at who has a corner on the advertising. iPhones are still seen as another class above by many, if not most, people. Edit: Forgot to say, that by comparison, Android/Windows/whatever smartphones are relatively unknown.
    - reitoei 11y ago
      > Forgot to say, that by comparison, Android/Windows/whatever smartphones are relatively unknown. Huh? Android has nearly twice the market share of iOS: https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=1 https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share... > iPhones are still seen as another class above by many, if not most, people. This is severely anecdotal. But here's an anecdote from me to balance things out: where I come (and indeed within the industry I work in) most people look down on iPhones because they see them as uninteresting toy devices or devices for old people. Nobody I know would be 'impressed' by an iPhone. Something like a OnePlus One, Xiaomi Mi5 or even a Blackberry Z30 would have a lot more cool/novelty factor. iPhones got boring a long time ago. Much like the rest of Apple, it pains me to say.
puranjay 11y ago
My $500 Windows laptop is over 4 years old. I run Windows 7 on it and I'm in no mood to upgrade any time soon. Screw it. I can afford to buy any new computer tomorrow, but I'm not doing that because what I have works perfectly fine for my needs
wyager 11y ago
It's sort of presumptions to assume that many poor people have iPhones because they want to look cool. Perhaps they feel that the device is a worthwhile investment because it lets them have things like the Internet and email and messaging services and is liable to work properly.
stcredzero 11y ago
In American society poverty is associated with failure on many levels. We have our caste system as much as India, only ours is economic, and enforced ruthlessly with endless class warfare - largely in one direction. Something I've experienced all my life, and even more strongly since I came to the west coast and the Bay Area, is the out-sized and mis-labeled emphasis placed on signaling here. Supposedly smart and well-educated professionals will use what you wear and what terms you use as a proxy for actually listening and thinking about what one has said. Recent college grads are even worse. All societies have used class-based stereotypes as a means of regulating and preserving the status quo. However, what I've experienced in the Bay Area are people who tell themselves they are aware of this and are transcending these mechanisms while virulently and mindlessly engaging in them. Where have all the real intellectuals gone?

by waspleg 11y ago

zepto 11y ago

You and the author make the assumption that smartphones are commodities of equal value. This may not be true. Additionally the author takes Schiller's comments out of context. He went on to explain that the reason they think the new iPad will appeal to the people who have old windows computers is that it is more suited to a world which has the internet. The implication is that nobody, including Apple, has actually offered a product that has enough extra value for PC owners to decide to buy until now. The awkwardness and insinuations about class are just being read in by the author.

rileymat2 11y ago

I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I would want to give up. The utility of the device is incredible: Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography. If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. It would be a great way to improve their lives for a somewhat modest cost. I am not sure it is all for looks. Maybe we could quibble about whether they should have an iPhone or some cheaper smartphone. I am just saying, it could be more for utility than image.

bwindels 11y ago
I know I would, Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring are also my primary use cases, but there are devices that cost a lot less than an iPhone that do those things just as good or even better.
jwoah12 11y ago
You just described the functionality of every single phone on the market, though. Almost all of which are much less expensive than the iPhone.
- Retric 11y ago
  A SE is $399, sure you can get an ok phone for less than that. But, ED: even if that's significantly more than a 'cheap' phone it's not that expensive compared to a cellphone plan. People look at things as symptoms, but it's mostly ongoing costs that are real issues.
  - falcolas 11y ago
    Cheap phones are actually in the $60 price range. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Prevail-White-Mobile/dp/B00SHZJ6BO http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Prevail-White-Mobile/dp... http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-640-Annual-Contract/dp/B012CKVZ18 http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-640-Annual-Contract/dp/B01...
    - Retric 11y ago
      I thought those where locked/discounted phones. First is: Boost (67.99), or Sprint prepaid (104$) Second is: AT&T Go Phone only. But, it looks like you can get a new unlocked smartphone for 60$. http://www.amazon.com/BLU-Advance-5-0-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp/B018IZ0VLQ/ http://www.amazon.com/BLU-Advance-5-0-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp...
      - falcolas 11y ago
        Gotta love regional pricing. I see Galaxy phone as $57, the Lumia is $44. That they are locked to a particular provider makes them not really any different than your average phone. They do have the advantage of not locking you into a 2+ year contract. Nice find on the BLU though.
      - andrewpi 11y ago
        I bought a prepaid Moto E for $39.99 and activated it on Ringplus (a Sprint MVNO that offers free data/text/minutes every month) as a backup phone.
merpnderp 11y ago
Especially when the iPhone's cost is calculated over the lifetime of the device and the quality of the hardware. Apple's latest iOS version 9.3 just dropped. And the 5 year old iPhone 4s along with every iPad except the original just got that update. What other device would be safe to use with personal information and be just as usable after 5 years? At the original full price that comes to around $80/year. With the additional street cred of owning an iPhone?
- tdkl 11y ago
  Sorry, but claiming 4 year old devices are usable with iOS 9 is a joke. The rule of a thumb with iPhones is that you update n+1 version your phone shipped with. Anything more kills the performance to almost a standstill. I won't go into the debate if it's intentionally or not, but as sure isn't with much added value.
  - merpnderp 11y ago
    You say that, but the guy sitting right behind me happily used his 4s until last month. And he's a heavy app user, installing all sorts of stuff, from flight tracking, weird weather apps, bird watching, whatever. I'm not sure if that counts as a joke from where I'm from.
    - tdkl 11y ago
      There, a test on the 4S : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J6R0NnqOzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J6R0NnqOzc If you look at it this way - all that's changed are "clients", the data displayed is the same for both. But only on one phone the system experience is enjoyable. I guess Schiller forgot about that they once had a good optimized mobile OS.
- sz4kerto 11y ago
  One of my friend is not particularly well off, to say the least. Until a month or so ago he had been using a HTC Desire that he got for free from somebody. He used email, mapping, alarm clock, calendar, instant messaging. On a 5 year old phone.
noxToken 11y ago
>I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I would want to give up. If you have an iPhone and then become poor, sure. You probably won't get ahead much by getting rid of your iPhone. If you're already poor, then an iPhone (not a smartphone) is definitely a luxury. There are capable smartphones for much cheaper then an iPhone that could get the job done. That's what GP was likely getting at. >If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. I am not aware of a socialized plan to put phone in the hands of poor people, but they are getting increasingly cheaper. You can get Samsung Galaxy line (not the flagship model) phones from cheap, prepaid carriers. Wi-Fi is becoming increasingly available, which makes the limited data plans not that bad of a drawback.
- JohnBooty 11y ago
  > If you're already poor, then an iPhone (not a smartphone) is definitely a luxury. It's not wrong, nor necessarily economically irresponsible, for "poor" people to have a few nice things. Assuming a lifespan of 3 years, the cost difference between a $600 phone and a $300 phone is barely more than $0.25 per day - and probably even less, considering that iPhones have a higher resale value. Maybe that "poor person" carrying an iPhone just forgoes $0.25 or $0.50 of other niceties per day so they can afford that iPhone and those $100 shoes - or maybe they just work in a city, because you can literally find that much money on the ground every day if you keep your eyes peeled. If a person routinely made such purchases, to the detriment of their well-being, certainly that could be a problem. But unless we know somebody's full financial picture we should not presume to make such a judgement.
  - em3rgent0rdr 11y ago
    I don't think the OP's criticism is on the "poor person", but rather on the fact that Apple's business model and marketing scheme is premised on a false need to buy some new "revolutionary" iThing which actually offers little or no functional benefit over a perfectly fine older PC or less-powerful android.
  - deleted 11y ago
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throwanem 11y ago
With a little forethought and initial investment, you don't have to decide between giving up an iPhone and continuing to pay three figures monthly for the privilege of using it. Consider: Sprint - ostensibly free phone, $120/mo for a 2-year contract: $2880 all told, and you don't have a choice but to pay all of it Ting - $500 up front for 64G iPhone SE, avg. $27.50/mo for the same period: $1160 all told, and you can stop service any time if things get bad enough that you have to Sure, if you can't make the initial nut, it's not an option - but you're talking about being suddenly broke or close to it, which is the situation in which I found myself last year, and which motivated me to put some thought into better options for mobile service. The more I look at it, the more it seems to me that mobile contracts, at least in the US and at least for single phones, are every bit as much for suckers as rent-to-own shops are.
- uptown 11y ago
  Buy pre-used phone (~$50 for an older-gen device). Use pre-paid phone service. (~$40/month). Doesn't need to be expensive if you're willing to forgo the latest and 'greatest'. I use pre-paid Verizon anyway since it's the best deal for my usage pattern.
- raisedbyninjas 11y ago
  Project Fi is a prepaid service and allows you to finance the phone. Currently the cheapest is $200 for the Nexus 5x.
- goldbrick 11y ago
  Or, if you live in a city with ubiquitous wifi, buy an iPod touch and use Google Voice/Hangouts. $200 up front, free/mo thereafter.
andrepd 11y ago
A <100$ smartphone can do all of those things.
matthewaveryusa 11y ago
I'm with you on this one. I've never owned an iphone because I'm cheap, but when you see a poor person with an iphone it's not a phone they have in their hands -- it's _the_ only device they have to connect to the internet and communicate. That being said, you can get a motorola G lte for 100 bucks.
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smarx007 11y ago
First, let's get the internet part clear. Mobile internet is consistently more expensive that fixed line (in xUSSR at least). And as somebody with more than 1 degree, I can tell you that you don't need an iphone map, phone, alarm, or camera functionality to make your life better, while internet and email on a mobile device is counterproductive. If you really want to save money and get better, go buy a core 2 duo desktop pc for less than $100 and a simple internet connection. Turn on the pomodoro. Turn off your phone. Reply to all your emails. Get some quality study/work time.
- bryondowd 11y ago
  Well, I pay $5 for the limited data plan on my phone, here in the US (Walmart Family Mobile). That's on top of $25/mo primary line and $20/mo additional lines. The cheapest internet line for my home I could find was around $30 at a promotional rate, which bumped up to $45 after a year. Yes, I can get more data per dollar out of that $45 line, but aside from entertainment purposes, I can get by on my 1GB of data. Or I could bump it to 5GB for another $10 and that would get me by on everything short of regular streaming or large downloads. So, being frugal, it does make sense in some cases to just get a cheap phone with a data plan, even more so if you don't need a home PC, as many poor folk.
  - smarx007 11y ago
    I now live in EU and can relate to your experiences. But when I was referring to what struggling folk need, I meant what can really improve their position. And I hope you understand that it's not something like 9gag, but udacity. And udacity is a pain on a tablet (let alone phone) if you do the exercises.
    - bryondowd 11y ago
      Well, a phone is enough for many useful services. Putting in applications, gathering information, etc. Then there's tethering for a cheap internet solution if you can get a hold of a desktop/laptop. But really, if we're talking about improving one's lot through education, the best bet would probably be a local community college, which should have their own computer rooms. I don't know much about udacity and the like, but I'm not sure there's a route there for people in my neck of the woods, at least. Any local tech jobs want a Bachelor's degree.
xlm1717 11y ago
>If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. It sure as hell won't be iPhones we get into the hands of the poor. There are regional mvno's/prepaid carriers here who pretty much give away cheap android phones to get on their cheap plans.
akerro 11y ago
>Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography. Soo... It does exactly the same as my LG with Android 2.2 that costed me ~$70 2.5 years ago?
widowlark 11y ago
I think you're off base. There are plenty of devices out there (android, windows phone) which have all the utility of the iPhone, but cost half the price of the iPhone (or less). To suggest that an iPhone is the only device capable of these things and therefore is a fixed cost is incorrect, IMO
kbart 11y ago
" Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography." All these are easily available for a fraction of iPhone's/iPad's price.
rdtsc 11y ago
I have money and the utility of iPhone is what I don't want. Instead opted for a cheap Moto G basic model 4-5 years ago and still happy with it.
jinst8gmi 11y ago
> I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I would want to give up. Poor is when you have to dig through other peoples' trash to find food (I see this every week). I'm pretty sure you you really ended up poor you wouldn't give a damn about your iPhone except to sell it to buy food.
spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
But can get a nice Motorola for £150 and a £7 month sim - you dont need a Iphone do do all that
chetanahuja 11y ago
"Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography." You realize those features are not unique to iPhone... right? "Maybe we could quibble about whether they should have an iPhone or some cheaper smartphone. I am just saying, it could be more for utility than image." The whole point is that buying an iPhone as opposed to an equally capable cheaper smartphone is done for branding and image.
virtualritz 11y ago
Why do you need an iPhone for that? A Moto G will do all of that, at a fraction of the price.
sametmax 11y ago
you can live with none of that. You can have internet at school on a needing basic. You don't need it in your pocket. You can live without mapping, a dumb phone with alarm clock and be done with it. If you live by the cent, no, the iPhone is not a priority. I didn't have a smartphone before 4 months ago, and it was fine. And if you are at school, then it's even easier. The biggest problem is the social isolation, since now a lot of kids interactions are going through apps.
tagrun 11y ago
A 50$ Android smartphone can do all of those, and more.

ff10 11y ago

Why is it Apple that's a real-world incarnation of Huxley's world? Why is it not the whole society itself (including Apple as a very prominent figure) – as you aptly described with your observations – that is the real real-world incarnation of the Brave New World?

BackPropagate 11y ago

Ok, then! Let's move on to Phase Two of "Internet Mob Rules". Let's start a change.org petition and Brendan-Eich him out of of his job for being insensitive.

kdamken 11y ago

I'd disagree, no one is forcing people to buy iPhones. If the kids all have iPhones, then they have parents who aren't very good at not buying things they can't afford and teaching their kids that worth doesn't come from possessions.

Ntrails 11y ago
At a guess a lot of the phones are bought on payment plans with carriers - so the up front cost is relatively manageable but you're paying for 2 years. This kind of deal is much much harder to value correctly and for sure people are looking at it as a "we can find $40 a month" rather than "that's equivalent to a price of $900 - can we afford that?".
- kdamken 11y ago
  I'm sad that I can't disagree with you. Most people don't realize how much those monthly (and daily) expenses add up. A huge failing of our society is that we don't teach people how to be responsible with money. All they see are ads telling them to buy more, spend all your money, keep up with the Joneses. Either you have parents who teach you, or you figure it out on your own. And for the poorer people, it's just a cycle where they don't know, so their kids don't know.
  - Scea91 11y ago
    I just wonder sometimes if it is really that hard to figure this on their own. We can't teach every basic thing to everyone. I would hope that people are able to figure such obvious things on their own. It is really strange that they don't.
    - kdamken 11y ago
      Most people just don't know any better. And when the social norm is spending all your money (and then some) on things you don't need, most people don't even realize there's another option. I myself didn't realize until I stumbled upon Mr. Money Mustache two years ago (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/), and it kind of woke me up. Now I buy way less, save at least half my income every month, and am overall much happier.

ultramancool 11y ago

I'm not so sure about that. I could fairly easily afford a new iPhone or some other flagship device like that. Yet if I were to buy a new phone right now... factory refurb Nexus 5 on for $150 USD is probably the most tempting option. If the cheap ass option does everything you'll need, you still don't waste money on the more expensive one. I'm guessing this combination more than likely just boils down to some people who aren't very good at making financial decisions...

zanny 11y ago
You can get a refurbished Moto G 2013 for $35. I have a huge number of people in my extended family on those, since they are not techies and just want a good phone.
- wstrange 11y ago
  We have two in the family as well. They are solid, good quality phones. Best value on the market today.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    I have one as do two of my kids. $10/month for Republic Wireless, and we're set.

PaulHoule 11y ago

I had to drive to the ghetto to get a prepaid phone that works on the Verizon network but people from the ghetto drive to the fake Verizon store to get their smartphone.

ethbro 11y ago

The K12 public school (I'm assuming Title 1 from the free lunches) comment struck especially close to home. A few years ago, in helping my mother get ready for a new year of kindergarten teaching at a similar school, she asked if I could do anything about the computers (slow, unreliable, etc etc). ... In ~2013, the best processor of the four machine lot was a 2.8ghz P4. With 2GB of RAM. It had obviously been cobbled together by a well-meaning local computer shop, as it used quality components, and yes, this was kindergarten. But still, my mother and her like occasionally liked to show kinds YouTube videos to reinforce lessons. When the OLPC project came out there were a fair amount of notes about how technological progress can make things better or cheaper, and corporations always choose better (because margins, capturing value, avoiding commodity status, etc etc). But that thrust leaves a lot of people ill-served.

ido 11y ago
Surely that pentium 4 has no trouble showing youtube videos?
- lfowles 11y ago
  Single core is a lot worse than I remembered. I had booted up my wife's college desktop with a P4 in it. Pretty unusable experience, I eventually gave up on trying to reinstall Windows before giving it away.
- makomk 11y ago
  Pentium 4's pretty bad by modern standards, unfortunately. It's well over a decade old and wasn't all that great even when it was introduced. I think the cut-off for "good enough to be used today" is somewhere around the Core 2 Duo which was introduced a decade ago and was a huge step up from the Pentium 4.
FD3SA 11y ago
That well meaning computer shop probably assumed someone would understand that you could throw Lubuntu on that computer and have it work flawlessly. The common mistake people make is trying to run modern, bloated software on old computers.

norea-armozel 11y ago

Conspicuous consumption is the perennial vice of our species. Pyramids, Cathedrals, fast cars, diamond jewelry, fancy suits, and now iPads and iPhones. I swear as much effort goes into these things I think we could've at least solved the problem of starvation by now.

s_q_b 11y ago
I've often thought conspicuous consumption is largely just a message to the world of one's fitness as a mate. If so, sexual selection produces some very interesting and complex but functionally "useless" objects.
- norea-armozel 11y ago
  I think there's plenty of ways to signal you're a good provider or good in bed without throwing the entire viability of both into money pits of useless junk. It just takes more skull sweat to figure that out on a case-by-case basis.
  - s_q_b 11y ago
    Sure, but now you're just showcasing a different skill set that has high survival utility, namely cognitive ability. My hypothesis is that complex cognitive activities are one way humans measure fitness as a mate. Conspicuous consumption implies, "Hey, not only was I able to acquire all of this shiny stuff, I have so much I can afford to use it on useless things."

Spooky23 11y ago

I would disagree that the iPhones in your school represent a keeping up with the Joneses. Smartphones are swiss army knives that provide a ton of benefit to folks without the resources to buy lots of different devices. Through the myriad of purchasing schemes available, the real cost difference between an iPhone/Galaxy and a cheap android device amounts to a couple of bucks a month. When I was a kid in the 90s, kids, even kids without lots of money, wasted lots of the money they have access to on music. That money spent on tapes and CDs is similar to a data plan. Except the data plan + wifi gives you access to a world of services from phone, texting, music, tv, etc. Personally, I think if I had very little in the way of resources, I would choose a smartphone investment over a TV, radio, and many other things. Its a high return product.

omaranto 11y ago
I agree that a smartphone can be a useful investment, but aren't iPhones really expensive (as are "flagship" Android phones)? My smartphone cost me about $90 unlocked, my wife's $130. I thought we were saving several hundreds of dollars compared to buying iPhones or a fancy Android phone.

cat-dev-null 11y ago

Absolutely true... as another anecdotal example, one of my mechanics in his 20's is also an Uber driver and has a brand new iPhone 6s Plus. Also, the prevalence of gold-collar workers splurging on old (and increasingly expensive to maintain) Lexus, Acuras, BMWs, Mercedes, etc. Contrast this with folks whom have wealth and do everything possible to look fashionably broke (or at least "if you've got it, hide it"): torn jeans, Urban Outfitter, etc. People tend to project the opposite of their insecurities, and in so doing, reveal them, consciously or not. Peter Thiel describes a number of bad pitches whereby founders describe how big they're unlikely to be, whereas projects with actual traction tend to feign smallness.

erroneousfunk 11y ago
A mechanic in his 20's who also drives an Uber? Sounds like exactly the sort of person who would probably be able to afford, and get tremendous value from, an iPhone 6s Plus. Mechanics make good money, and having a side income is all just extra cash for a guy in his 20's that probably doesn't have a lot in the way of bills. Super fast processor, latest GPS chip and assisted GPS software, extra large screen to view the map at a glance while driving... Most of the bad experiences I've had with Uber have been caused by problems with the driver's phone or GPS, not their car. Investing in good (and relatively cheap, all things considered) equipment is probably a wise move here. And I would't say Urban Outfitters looks "cheap" It looks like Urban Outfitters. The point of a brand new Joy Division "concert" shirt and torn jeans isn't to fool people. Jeans with a pattern of distress marks in front upper thigh and "patch" machine stitching on the back? Expensive (tacky, but expensive). Jeans where both knees have a horizontal split that's threatening to extend to the side seams? Cheap. I would argue that people with "wealth" haven't really been a big demographic at Urban Outfitters lately, anyway. "Understated" clothing brands like Everlane, Calvin Klein seem to be more popular in the US.
bluecalm 11y ago
Or they try to project image to differentiate themseves from the social class just below. It's ok for super rich to dress like a college student but not alike to upper middle class person as then the plan could backfire should people actually believe the projection. I remember a great essay about the phenomenon: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/

petra 11y ago

One thing most of us here might agree on - beyond everything else - the iPhone is a status symbol - carrying some social value. So one interesting question is - how can this be disrupted(by a phone costing half the price) ? Is it even possible ?

majani 11y ago
It'll just run out of fashion with time. 10 years ago, flip phones, slide up phones and two ways were the status symbols. Fashion is cyclical, maybe we'll see the return of the flip? :)
SonicSoul 11y ago
good question. by definition status is achieved by something hard to obtain. Either based on price ore availability? I can't even think of any example of the latter. Growing up all the "cool" things were out of my reach entirely based on cost..
- petra 11y ago
  That's a good way to look at it. Maybe Google can create a good $300 brand, but sells it only to people with certain qualities/experiences ? For example, if you volunteer - that could be one kind of status?

melling 11y ago

Gosh, I love a good nerd debate but I always feel like it's a complete waste of time. Maybe this time is different? Perhaps if people whine loud enough, Apple won't make jokes about people with 5 year old PC's. They're probably trying to get a piece of that Windows XP market. If you're using a > 5 year old XP box, there's a reasonable possibility that a new iPad Pro might satisfy your needs[1]; at least Apple wants you to consider it. Instead the political correct "people" of the world debate endlessly about the nuances, while not adding a bit of value themselves. 'Do you fucking know that there are some people in this world who would be grateful for that computer?!". I don't think Apple was talking to them but don't let that stop you from getting on a soapbox. Computers, and technology in general, are something that all kids should master before they're adults. Smartphones are great tools. Do some of that homework while you're between things. Learn another language (http://duolingo.com http://duolingo.com). Scratch that artistic itch, write a story, collaborate on school projects via the cloud, or work on a blog, even if no one reads it. Learn better English by debating on Reddit (not on HN, of course). Take lots of pictures and create movies. Also, there's nothing wrong with a good Android phone. Learn the differences well, and don't pick one phone like it's a religion. [1] No one said it works for everyone. Please don't explain all the use cases it doesn't handle.

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elipsey 11y ago

If you carefully read the fine article, you will notice that the author states: "There are really only two reasons why people might have a computer that’s more than five years old: 1. They can’t afford an upgrade. 2. They don’t need an upgrade." and then proceeds to examine and _dismiss_ #1 as a plausible motive for these comments. What he is complaining about is disposable hardware. I am also bothered by this trend, and I'm concerned that it may become more difficult over time to avoid it. I'm typing this on a T430 with a removable hard drive, two SSD's, new RAM, new keyboard, new screen, new fan, and new OS. Try that with MacBook. If _certain_ tech companies have their way it will be impossible to do anything useful with a machine that hasn't got a crypto-locked boot loader and soldered on hardware. It's debatable whether planned obsolescence is a motivating goal for this. (It is arguable that semi manufactures are mostly competing with their own older hardware, and they aren't competing as well as they used to; phones still improve like PC's in the 90's, but that's not sustainable in the long run.) In any case, planned obsolescence is at least a side effect of building non-upgradeable hardware, and that means you'll be compelled to throw away your hardware more often, whether you can afford to or not. For Apple, this means that 5 year old hardware _has_ to pathetic, and they obviously wouldn't admit that anyone else's is less pathetic than theirs.

ok_craig 11y ago
Not sure we read the same article. The author did not dismiss #1 as a plausible motive. He dismissed it as the likely motive, to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, from fear about what it would mean about them otherwise.
- elipsey 11y ago
  "Door number two. What Schiller probably meant to suggest was that Apple’s targeting old PC users who simply haven’t felt compelled to update yet but could afford to." He said the second thing is what "What Schiller probably meant". Maybe this shouldn't reasonably be construed as a "dismissal". This interpretation is more generous towards Apple than supposing they mean to overtly mock the poor, and I supposed the author meant that this would be beneath them. Apparently that's debatable :)
11y ago

neovive 11y ago

Very true. It could also be due to the long-term contracts that parents commit to as part of the family plans with iPhones attached. It's just another monthly expense that has become like a hard to give up utility.

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mangeletti 11y ago

> Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such. This is not necessarily correct. A lot of people still regard iPhones and other high-end smartphones as being something of a luxury. They are a luxury when you compare them to what we need for survival (food, water, shelter), but there is something to be said about a small rectangular device that, once purchased, can provide nearly free: 1. entertainment 2. education (Wikipedia, etc.) 3. news 4. photography 5. social connection 6. documentation of events (note taking, video, etc.) 7. voice recording 8. calculator 9. more complex tools (graphing calculator, 12C, etc.) 10. flash light 11. access to e-commerce (save money on things you need) 12. e-readers (text books that might otherwise be cost-prohibitive) The list goes on, but, for all of its negatives, the value of a high-quality smartphone like an iPhone can't be over-stated. In fact, when you consider all the things it replaces, including entertainment, poor people almost cannot afford to not have a smartphone. Whether the additional value of an iPhone or other high-end device (Galaxy, etc.), compared to a low-end smartphone, pays for the increase in cost, is definitely debatable.

rorykoehler 11y ago
Smartphone != iphone I spent $250 on mine and it is does everything meaningful that an iphone does. Iphone is definitely a luxury even among smartphones.
- schnide05095 11y ago
  Correct. But look at who has a corner on the advertising. iPhones are still seen as another class above by many, if not most, people. Edit: Forgot to say, that by comparison, Android/Windows/whatever smartphones are relatively unknown.
  - reitoei 11y ago
    > Forgot to say, that by comparison, Android/Windows/whatever smartphones are relatively unknown. Huh? Android has nearly twice the market share of iOS: https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=1 https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share... > iPhones are still seen as another class above by many, if not most, people. This is severely anecdotal. But here's an anecdote from me to balance things out: where I come (and indeed within the industry I work in) most people look down on iPhones because they see them as uninteresting toy devices or devices for old people. Nobody I know would be 'impressed' by an iPhone. Something like a OnePlus One, Xiaomi Mi5 or even a Blackberry Z30 would have a lot more cool/novelty factor. iPhones got boring a long time ago. Much like the rest of Apple, it pains me to say.

puranjay 11y ago

My $500 Windows laptop is over 4 years old. I run Windows 7 on it and I'm in no mood to upgrade any time soon. Screw it. I can afford to buy any new computer tomorrow, but I'm not doing that because what I have works perfectly fine for my needs

wyager 11y ago

It's sort of presumptions to assume that many poor people have iPhones because they want to look cool. Perhaps they feel that the device is a worthwhile investment because it lets them have things like the Internet and email and messaging services and is liable to work properly.

stcredzero 11y ago

In American society poverty is associated with failure on many levels. We have our caste system as much as India, only ours is economic, and enforced ruthlessly with endless class warfare - largely in one direction. Something I've experienced all my life, and even more strongly since I came to the west coast and the Bay Area, is the out-sized and mis-labeled emphasis placed on signaling here. Supposedly smart and well-educated professionals will use what you wear and what terms you use as a proxy for actually listening and thinking about what one has said. Recent college grads are even worse. All societies have used class-based stereotypes as a means of regulating and preserving the status quo. However, what I've experienced in the Bay Area are people who tell themselves they are aware of this and are transcending these mechanisms while virulently and mindlessly engaging in them. Where have all the real intellectuals gone?