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Linux Foundation quietly drops community representation
- duncan_bayne 11y agoI've emailed the Foundation to ask them for the reasons for the change. I'll post any replies I get here.
- rogerbinns 11y agoI happened to be on the page for GPL violations by AllWinner today. That page also mentions AllWinner recently joining the Linux Foundation, and how their violations are getting worse! http://linux-sunxi.org/GPL_Violations http://linux-sunxi.org/GPL_Violations
- braiser 11y agoAllwinner used to distribute "SDKs" which was their Linux kernel with binary modules for components that they could not open-source. Allwinner is a fabless semiconductor company and they source components from different vendors. They did not know that they had to split the Linux kernel source tarball from those binary modules! That wiki page is not constructive.
- nona 11y agoDoesn't matter whether they are fabless, or what they knew and when. They distribute GPL'ed software, they're on the hook, and they need to abide by the rules. And after all this time and all the warnings they've received, it's not possible they're not aware of their obligations; they just choose to ignore it until the day someone actually sues them.
- rasz_pl 11y ago>They did not know please ...
- cyphar 11y agoI'd like to point out that Linus's tree has at least 100 GPL violations by my count (from proprietary firmware blobs in the IHEX format).
- geofft 11y agoIn the sense of firmware being redistributed under the GPL in a form that is not the preferred form of modification? I don't think that's a violation per se since you're not actually infringing anyone's copyrights, though yes, it seems like an abuse of the spirit of the GPL.
- cyphar 11y agoI'd like to point out that Linus's tree has at least 100 GPL violations by my count (from proprietary firmware blobs in the IHEX format).
- AstroJetson 11y agoPeople have asked for years, when will Linux be a real OS, when it gets on the desktop? No, when it part of underhanded dealings by large multi-national corporations. So Linux has finally arrived! Sorry to see it was the Linux Foundation, I've always had high hopes for them.
- myztic 11y agoI don't know where to begin. 0) Linux is just a kernel, so if taken literally, it never will be an OS. But I will roll with your terminology for now. 1) Linux was a Unix-like OS for tinkerers, programmers and soon for servers. A "real OS" is not defined by its availability on the Desktop. And indeed I very much used it exactly because of this, because I am a tinkerer who rather runs a Server OS on his private machines, that also allows him to do most Desktop-tasks with ease. 2) The voice of the Desktop camp inside of Linux is not ignored, if anything, the influence is too big. Think about systemd for example. This was not a move in order to run better on Servers, this was primarily Notebook and Server focused. The year of the Linux Desktop is not something we won't see because of evil big corporations, rather because it simply is not Linux's DNA to be that. (And side note: Because of systemd I see more and more people using *BSDs)
- krisdol 11y agoGP was pretty obviously tongue-in-cheek.
- tokenizerrr 11y ago> this was primarily Notebook and Server focused Do you perhaps mean something else here? Notebook and Desktop focused maybe?
- notalaser 11y agoTo be fair, notebooks and desktops ran fine without systemd for a long time. To this day, I'm convinced systemd got there just to give Red Hat a big enough foot in the door. Systemd is useful on servers, especially for the DevOps people. On a desktop, it solves no problem that cannot be -- and that has not been for years -- solved without it. I don't use it enough to question its technical merits. The fact that it was packaged in Debian and the world hasn't fallen over implies that people may be unhappy with it, but can still do their jobs, which would mean it's not that bad. But the necessity of its existence on notebooks and desktops is questionable at best. Edit: I know this is going to incite a lot of posts about how the times have changed and now storage devices aren't statical anymore and we NEED systemd. From a lot of people who are too young (or too recent Linux users) to remember the days when udev was still news. Guys, we've been easily hotplugging devices on Linux, on USB, SATA and PCI for about half a decade before systemd's first release (and not as easily but reliably, nonetheless, for at least seven or eight). We've been reliably booting and using Linux off a combination of USB and NFS filesystems for even more than that. All that yadda yadda about devices coming and going at boottime is not without its technical merits, but unless you boot your computer with its case open while frantically plugging and unplugging SATA drives, trust me, it's of absolutely no consequence. Devices appearing and disappearing dynamically used to be a problem. In 2.4. Do you remember the 2.4 kernel? That was (boy, does time pass...) more than ten years ago. Do you honestly think the smart people writing Linux sat on their thumbs for ten years while the arcane world of tape drives and 10 MB hard drives around them was giving way to this new world of magic SSDs and USB?
- theGimp 11y agoWow. Thanks for noticing and bringing this to our attention, Matthew. I, for one, am ready to drop my membership and stop supporting the foundation. Not that they care. A single platinum sponsor is worth 5,000 individual "supporters" to them, but it's a matter of principle -- it's a withdrawal of endorsement. What options do we have to give the community a voice as far as Linux governance goes?
- mlinksva 11y agoYou might switch your support to http://sfconservancy.org/supporter/ http://sfconservancy.org/supporter/ (the other organization mentioned in the article, and a charity rather than a trade association).
- JoshTriplett 11y agoSeconded. They currently have a company matching donations through the end of the month, so now would be the perfect time to donate.
- theGimp 11y agoThank you for your recommendation.
- danieldk 11y agoWhat options do we have to give the community a voice as far as Linux governance goes? I think the consequences much more dire than 'just' losing a community voice, when you take VMWare and AllWinner into account. The Linux Foundation is basically a funnel for multiple cooperations to collectively pay the pay checks of some important kernel developers. In other words, some major kernel developers are now indirectly working for companies that make proprietary forks of Linux. If anything, it gives a lot of legitimacy to the actions of AllWinner and VMWare to the outside world.
- vasili111 11y agoOne option is to migrate to FreeBSD.
- vezzy-fnord 11y agoHas anyone ever believed the Linux Foundation to be anything besides an ad-hoc promotional vehicle targeted by and toward large players? Rob Landley sums it up well: http://landley.net/notes-2010.html#18-07-2010 http://landley.net/notes-2010.html#18-07-2010
- unexistance 11y agoit still doesn't work that way and the pointy-hair still doesn't get it and now they're taking over... time for a fork (yeah I wish it was that simple)
- rwmj 11y agoNot really disagreeing with you or the link you posted. But I will just say that LF organize many important Linux conferences[1]. I know from experience many years ago that organizing conferences is difficult, tedious, time-consuming and incredibly expensive. The LF conferences that I have been to have been very well run. [1] http://events.linuxfoundation.org/ http://events.linuxfoundation.org/
- myztic 11y agoI am sorry that I have to say this, but large parts of the GNU/Linux community are just irrational idealists hard to work with. Read the GPLv3, it's a great political document, and somewhere in there there also is a software license, hidden between the lines. Linus always said: He cares about the code back and otherwise not what vendors do with it. He is not in any sense one of those GNU-people about Software Freedom everywhere and for all. When the Free Software Foundation (FSF) created the GPLv3, indeed during the process, Linus already spoke out against it and said he would never ever use it[1]. He cited reasonable use-cases for which vendors have no other way than to not to give open access to devices, in part for example commercial license agreements. The GPLv3 - from the perspective of the FSF - fixes some vital flaws in GPLv2, from Linus' perspective however is just too strict, forbids use-cases Linux has been used before previously and is extremely anti-business and would hurt the Linux project. Whether this step of the Linux foundation is right or not, can't say for sure, but I totally understand it. A political anti-business pro-freedom-everywhere radical who already is involved in suing some of the companies she is supposed to work with on that said board? Sounds like a headache you would want to avoid at all costs. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaKIZ7gJlRU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaKIZ7gJlRU
- bcg1 11y agoLinus is not a god, and his proclamations are not gospel. He can crow all he likes about how he wishes he never used the GPL and how he is not political... but the truth is, no one knows what would have happened if he didn't use the GNU license or distribute GNU software. Its theoretically possible that his project would have died on the vine without members of the community who cared about those things and made considerable contributions. Nobody knows, not even Linus.
- myztic 11y agoLinux would have never been as successful if someone like rms would have called the shots. People still tinker with the GNU Hurd microkernel and it's less usable than Minix. Linus is also no god for me, but he is delightfully pragmatic, someone companies can work with, not against.
- vonklaus 11y agoWhile contingent on approval approval by executive director[0] if there are 5000 silver members they can reorganize into a 501(c) called MILF. Motivated influencers of the Linux Foundation. Then they could control s board seat. As the members of MILF, continue sexting (stakeholders engaging xplicitly in transparency and influence of GNU) they will be able to promote the communities ideals. Also, if stakeholders of enough platforms and software programs sign on, it would be a pretty big controversy if they didn't allow them to participate as an entity. As an outsider, it depends on te direction of the LF, but I would assume they would be receptive if there was a big change the community disagreed with, and spurred staleholders to organize and demand input back. Don't know the LF well enough to make an assumption. Assume there was good reason and not nefarious, but dont know [0]http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/bylaws http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/bylaws Section 3.4
- pcx 11y agoLF is corporate entity, but I always liked and supported it. I think I will drop my support for them if this is what it seems like it is. I want to wait till I hear LF's response to these claims.
- Animats 11y agoFirst the Wikimedia Foundation, now the Linux Foundation. "Membership" in a nonprofit is now about as meaningless as being an "AOL Member" was.
- throwaway7767 11y agoThe linux foundation is not a non-profit. But I'm curious about your statement about the wikimedia foundation, is their board not elected by general members?
- CRConrad 11y agothrowaway7767 wrote: "The linux foundation is not a non-profit." As late as a month ago, it claimed to be: "SAN FRANCISCO, December 17, 2015 -The Linux Foundation, the nonprofit organization enabling mass innovation through open source..." (from the Block-chain page linked above, http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2015/12/linux-foundation-unites-industry-leaders-advance-blockchain http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2015... )
- throwaway7767 11y agoI stand corrected regarding the linux foundation, I was under the impression they were a company and not a non-profit. Thanks for the info.
- ghaff 11y agoThey're a 501(c)(6) trade association if you want to be technically correct. Which is different from 501(c)(3)'s which are what you normally think of as "non-profits" but it's still an exempt organization like a chamber of commerce. Fun fact: The NFL was a 501(c)(6) organization at one point because "professional football leagues" were specifically named in the IRS code but they voluntarily dropped their status.
- rmc 11y agoThe OpenStreetMap Foundation is still quite community driven.
- dvndvn 11y agoPlease forgive my ignorance. But does this corporate meddling in governance structure have anything to do with their recent corporations sponsored/bankrolled initiative "Designing Block chain for transactions". Which obviously calls for weeding out trouble making general public.
- sanswork 11y agoAre you confusing the Linux foundation with the Bitcoin foundation?
- emmelaich 11y agoI don't care what they do, but I don't want them calling themselves the Linux Foundation and I don't want them owning linux.com
- sqldba 11y agoTerrible. I was about to make a donation because I read that other article saying they fund NTP and other critical free software projects.
- jlgaddis 11y agoIf you were planning to donate because of NTP specifically, are you aware of the Network Time Foundation [0] that supports both the NTP Project (the original reference implementation), the Ntimed Project (phk's rewrite), and other related projects? [0]: http://www.networktimefoundation.org http://www.networktimefoundation.org
- logic 11y agoIf you're considering a donation, the Software Freedom Conservancy could certainly use your help as well. https://sfconservancy.org/ https://sfconservancy.org/
- linuxkerneldev 11y agoHow many of the "leadership" / "management", ie: the people raking the profits from this organization are coders? http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/leadership http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/leadership
- scandinavian 11y agoMike Woster - graduated cum laude with a B.S. in Computer Science and Honors Engineering from Texas A&M University Steve Westmorelander - He received his B.S in computer science from Louisiana Tech University. Westmoreland is based in Portland, Ore. Dan Cauchy - Dan earned a Bachelor’s degree in Electrical Engineering (with a Computer Engineering major) Dan Kohn - Dan received a bachelor's degree in Economics and Computer Science from the Honors program of Swarthmore College And all the fellows: Linus Greg Kroah-Hartman Till Kamppeter Richard Purdie Janina Sajka Weird question, don't see why the management have to be coders. They work for the foundation. The foundations pay plenty of the kernel developers.
- humanrebar 11y agoScott Meyers is a world-renowned expert on C++, but he's not a coder. > Weird question, don't see why the management have to be coders. Would Apple have been as successful if Jobs wasn't deep into technology and design? What about Gates? When your organization provides code, shouldn't the strategic leadership have a rich and up-to-date understanding of code in general and your organization's code in particular? All that being said, I don't know the above at all. As far as I know, they're all world class developers, but I haven't seen any evidence toward that end yet.
- linuxkerneldev 11y ago> The foundations pay plenty of the kernel developers. Do you mean directly? How many do they pay?
- linuxkerneldev 11y agoFull disclosure, I've never asked LF to pay me for my contributions, nor have they offered. None of the people I know who are lk contributors who I've just asked have gotten anything from LF. They have been solicited to pay to attend LF organized conferences.
- makomk 11y agoAh. From reading the comments, the would-be community representative Karen Sandler is the former Gnome Foundation executive director who caused them to run out of money by running outreach programs for women on behalf of far bigger organisations like Google and Mozilla, charging them less for admin than the actual costs incurred, and agreeing to pay participants upfront and get paid back later until it completely depleted the Gnome Foundation's financial reserves. As a result they could no longer fulfil their role of supporting Gnome development, had to go begging for more money, and Gnome developers who were expecting to have their costs paid for attending Gnome events got paid months late because they had to prioritize the non-Gnome payments. (I believe this also screwed over women who were involved in Gnome too.) Of course, mjg59 is a pretty loudly outspoken feminist activist, so I guess he's hardly going to object to all that.
- maweki 11y agoWhether the actual admin costs outweighed the admin fees is debatable. Otherwise, as you said, it was strictly a cash-flow problem and not one of general financial mismanagement. I think this issue should have been spotted by the board of directors but it didn't because it was common practice to do it this way (pay upfront, cash in later) and then the amount of outreach participants increased significantly without anybody in control thinking about all the implications that would have on the Foundation's cash-flow. And nobody really believed that increasing the amount of paid-for outreach-positions is a bad thing.
- humanrebar 11y ago> ...it was strictly a cash-flow problem and not one of general financial mismanagement. I have no opinion on this particular case, but why doesn't a cash-flow problem count as a financial mismanagement problem?
- hga 11y agoAbsolutely, and in all the minimally smart organizations I've worked for it's something the financial people always keep foremost in their minds. Screw it up, and you have to lay off the people who are doing the work that'll pay for the next increment of the org's operations (or tell them "if thus and so happens we'll pay you, until then you're welcome to continue working, we're storing your paychecks in the safe", as happened with Lisp Machines Inc. a couple of months before TI started investing in us).
- effenponderousa 11y agoThey clearly have a for-profit mission. Linux means community, yet they have no community representation. Therefore, the foundation name is misleading. "The IT Chamber of Commerce", however, isn't a misleading name.
- chinathrow 11y agoReads like a well planned, step-by-step executed (hostile?) takeover of the full power over the board. Why am I not suprised?
- jwildeboer 11y agoOne (now supposedly former?) individual member from the Linux Foundation received a message from Paypal(!) indicating that the Linux Foundation is not going to take his membership fee any longer. No further explanation given, no communication from the Linux Foundation. "Dear <name redacted>, The Linux Foundation canceled your automatic payments. This means we'll no longer automatically draw money from your account to pay the merchant. If you have any questions, you may ask The Linux Foundation about this cancellation."
- throwawayOeig02 11y agoThat "in-depth argument" is absolutely loaded with hyperbole and newspeak: being a public figure can be a *VERY DANGEROUS* role. Karen Sandler has been under *VIGOROUS ATTACKS*—hate mail, public slandering, and more the *HATE* has not died down You still see *WRETCHED HIVES OF SCUM AND VILLAINY* like this blog post on a regular basis (warning: the comments over there are depressing) And let's rewrite history while we're at it: The whole point of an outreach program is to help restore a balance to this messed up I.T. industry of ours. Hmm, that's curious. I don't recall it ever being "balanced," but I guess if we bombard everyone with a lie for long enough it will eventually become a Truth. Then the author follows up: [...] if you are going to comment on my blog on this particular blog post, stay civil and think thrice about what you’re going to say. And don’t be so quick to pejoratively label me a “SJW” just because I’m personally standing up for someone here Let's call a spade a spade. The author is a SJW. Linux people are legitimately concerned about this Karen Sandler character, and they have every right to raise those concerns. But let's censor them and shame everyone into compliance because, well, that tactic actually works! We all fall for it.
- acdha 11y ago“SJW” is the modern equivalent of saying “commie” or “pinko”. It says nothing about the target but suggests your goal is to attack rather than contribute anything of value to the conversation.
- belorn 11y agoI often see terms like "patriarchy", "chauvinism", and "brogrammer" being used here on HN, which are also used to attack and inflame arguments. It would be good if both sides just stopped posting inflammatory terms.
- acdha 11y agoThe first two in your list are standard English words with well-defined meanings. You may or may not agree with their applicability in any particular situation but they weren't invented to serve as slurs. “brogrammer” is indeed not helpful.
- rndmind 11y agoI don't think I know what the "linux foundation" is . . and I've used linux for 7 years.
- oneJob 11y agoCan someone else please write up a substantial comment so that the top comment is not a bigoted feminist bashing, logical fallacy ridden comment. It's embarrassing.
- frindah 11y agoYou use 'SJW' as a slur. Then, you try to implant the idea that there are 'concerns' against a person. These are disgusting tactics from those at Gamergate.
- teddyh 11y agoAs are yours, when you try to implicate that Gamergate has anything to do with the comment in question.
- deelowe 11y agoThis crap has spread to the Linux community now too? Christ.
- acveilleux 11y agoIt hasn't spread there, it's been there all along simmering.
- deelowe 11y agoGamergate and SJW wasn't even a thing until a couple of years ago. To be clear, I'm referring to the allegiances and labeling more so than the conflict/discussion. I'm all for having a sensible dissuasion about the under representation of women in tech. I'm not for removing all nuance and resulting to name calling and wagon circling. The whole GG vs SJW is based on false pretenses to begin with, but I'm already deeper into this than I care to be, so I'll end the discussion here.
- Chris2048 11y agoThere is a basic set of requirements for a productive discussion that many SJWs eschew, hence you never want to have a "discussion" or debate with them. You want to absolutely remove them from any discussion in order to keep it productive. SJWs are a subset of feminists. Misogynists are a subset of GGers. Both need to opposed.
- 11y ago
- daveheq 11y agoIs one person with $5000 more valuable than 5000 people with $1? If you're a person without $5000, no; if you're a foundation, apparently.