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Ronda Rousey fights like a statistical outlier
- pokstad 11y agoRousey is also the daughter of an outlier. Her mom was the first female US Judo champion.
- sleazebreeze 11y agoIsn't this basically the plot of Million Dollar Baby or Maximus's first fights in Gladiator? The fighter in both movies wins all their fights very quickly. The difference is that in Gladiator, he is told to slow down and give the crowd a spectacle. In Million Dollar Baby, nobody wants to fight her without extra participation money. I wonder what kind of pressure is being applied to Rousey by her manager, agent and fight organizers?
- krick 11y agoWell, I heard an opinion that the thing is pretty similar with what you said about "Gladiator". Basically, professional sport is business. For it to be profitable it must attract people (basically, to sell tickets, abut perhaps even more importantly — sell adds for higher prices). And to attract people it must entertain them. All this Ronda-centered marketing stuff (like this whole thread, actually) seems to do her well, but otherwise it's just not interesting to watch a fight that lasts for 15 seconds and ends with submission by the armbar. Every time.
- bmelton 11y ago> it's just not interesting to watch a fight that lasts for 15 seconds and ends with submission by the armbar. Every time. Three of her last four fights were KO or TKO. She can win with more than just the armbar. That said, I think you're underestimating the amount of people that tune in on the potential to see her lose. Rousey's skill attracts a lot of fans, but her attitude and status have definitely attracted plenty who would love to watch her get beat, as well.
- adventured 11y ago"Top male fighters are wary of facing her." First of all, that's false. Top male fighters, in an actual match, would injure her. It would not be entertaining, it would be almost disgustingly brutal. One need look no further than what Cristiane Justino - using performance enhancing drugs - did to her opponents, to understand. Pound for pound, top male fighters are going to be between 50% and 100% stronger than Ronda. I'm curious when this fantasy is going to stop being promoted? It seems to commonly be in every thread about her, across every site. Even more interesting, is to analyze the origins of it, why it exists, and why people feel the need to keep it going. I can't decide if it's mostly fetish (a male fantasy of being dominated physically), or something else entirely.
- jhou2 11y agoShe routinely wins against male fighters in her training studio. Pound for pound, she wins regardless of her gender and perceived weakness.
- adventured 11y agoThe article said: top male fighters. She does not routinely win against top male fighters. And if you watch the YouTube videos of what you're talking about, her training sessions against men, they are not going full-steam against her, and they almost always have very sizable weight advantages - which is rule #1 of what you never do in fighting (and why Ronda hasn't yet fought Cyborg). In the case of Ronda vs Cyborg, you're talking a few pounds of difference, and she refuses to fight due to that gap - so you're trying to tell me she's having no problem against guys 30 and 40 pounds heavier in training (fails the logic test right off). Pound for pound she does not win regardless.
- ridruejo 11y ago"and she refuses to fight due to that gap" Err ... if you want to challenge the champion, you go down to her weight, not the other way around.
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- bmelton 11y agoAs someone who has trained in MMA extensively, "the greats" tend to be those who embody this for long whiles in their careers before eventually (and generally, inevitably) regressing to the mean. Anderson Silva, Matt Hughes, BJ Penn are all common names to MMA devotees (or at least were as recently as a few years ago) , and each of them share the same trait -- they win when they aren't supposed to. I've never been remotely as good as any of them (nor Ronda Rousey), but eventually, when you defy the statistics for long enough, you become looked at as a modern-day Superman. Anderson Silva, for example, ran a hugely long undefeated streak in which he not only bested his opponents, but often embarrassed them before suddenly falling off the mark twice, and to the same opponent. As a result, he has fallen from grace as the once "best pound for pound fighter in the world" to almost average, depending on who you're talking to. Regardless, his fight record[1] tells the story of a man who simply knows how to win, except against Chris Weidman, and as such, is worth fearing, despite being older than average and much, much better than average. The point that I appear to be dancing around though, is that a guy on a 10-fight win streak seems invincible, while a guy on a 2-fight losing streak seems positively wimpy by comparison. Looking at the fighter's record on the whole is probably the best gauge of their talent, but as your statistical record approaches the mean, so does the level of fear you might otherwise instill, commensurately.
- adwf 11y agoWell a huge amount of sport is about mentality, so winning a nice streak really does make people invincible. Also, I wouldn't necessarily characterise Silva as regressing to the mean, just getting old.
- balls187 11y ago> As someone who has trained in MMA extensively, "the greats" tend to be those who embody this for long whiles in their careers before eventually (and generally, inevitably) regressing to the mean. You can make the case that both age, and the sport evolves around them and they regressed towards the mean. Except for Anderson. I attribute his decline simply to no longer being motivated to train hard. In many of his later fights, he would "play around" and toy with fighters. With Weidman, that cost him a brutal knockout. The psychological damage compounded with his next fight, which was immediate rematch that ended up in brutally shattering his leg. For BJ Penn, there were a lot of questions about his motivations, and by time it seemed like he was properly motivated, the sport had passed him by. Despite all that, he is one of the few fighters that have belts in multiple weight classes, and beat Matt Hughes, and Gomi in their prime (you could argue he beat the piss out of GSP in their first match, despite it being a loss). Full Disclosure: BJ Penn is one of my favorite fighters of all time.
- zkhalique 11y agoAnna Kournikova also routinely beat people who had better technique in tennis. There is something to be said about indomitable willpower!
- BryanBeshore 11y agoRousey’s total cage time after 12 pro fights is 25 minutes and 36 seconds. She’s ended eight of her pro victories in less than one minute each. http://mmajunkie.com/2015/08/ufc-190-post-fight-facts-ronda-rousey-into-uncharted-territory-in-just-ufc-six-fights http://mmajunkie.com/2015/08/ufc-190-post-fight-facts-ronda-...
- bmelton 11y agoShe could have fought her last five fights within a single 5-minute round.
- ps4fanboy 11y agoWhy is HN increasingly turning into the front page of gender studies.
- JulianMorrison 11y agoBecause of you. Cf: Lewis's law.
- engi_nerd 11y agoThere's some analysis on the fivethirtyeight post that is linked to, and clearly this is a topic that interests a significant chunk of the visitors to HN. The plots in the post make no distinction between male and female MMA fighters. I'm not seeing the "gender studies" aspect that you refer to, and that bit of negativity is a little sour.
- petegrif 11y agoIt is really fascinating how many people take seriously the idea that Rousey would be remotely competitive with ANY decently trained MMA fighter. She wouldn't stand a chance. Period. End of story. Don't go there. This is nothing to do with how skilled she is, how motivated she is, or her track record. She is a fantastic highly trained mentally strong athlete. But she's not remotely strong enough to fight a trained man. Could she kick my ass? Absolutely. Could she kick your ass? Probably. But a trained guy? No! Emphatically not. With the best will in the world there are very real differences between the sexes that can't be glossed over. It may be great marketing to present her as someone who could beat guys at MMA but it isn't real.
- mistermann 11y agoThis is true, of course. But to me, the most impressive thing was how well female fighters technique is now. Even as recent as 5 years ago you could watch two females fighting, and they'd be fighting "like girls" to put it frankly, but now, their style is pretty much like any male fighter. I think some people rolled their eyes a bit when females first entered the sport, but now a female fight on a card is 100% legitimate and they are as great to watch as any other.
- Strom 11y agoCan you provide any examples of trained women vs trained men fighting in a martial arts competition? I haven't encountered such fights myself. If you haven't either then I do wonder, what exactly do you base your opinion on so strongly? I find it plausible that males have some advantage due to larger bones & muscles, but there's a long spectrum of skill between "decent" as you say, and what it takes to be a UFC champion. I don't think the extra muscle & bone mass will do much if you're unable to defend the elite level judo throws.
- oh_sigh 11y agoHas rousey ever used a judo throw in a match? The #1 time judo throws are used is when another person is trying to judo throw you(that is, in a judo competition)
- Splendor 11y agoShe's undoubtedly an outlier but I think that has more to do with the lack of parity in women's MMA. Men's MMA has had decades to reach it's current level of competition so it seems unfair to plot the performance of Ronda against all of MMA.