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Valve has put Ultimate General: Gettysburg on the Steam store main page
- Dylan16807 11y agoWha? Oh, there's context not on this page, it looks like Apple decided confederate flags are verboten in depictions of the civil war. Sigh.
- tribaal 11y agoThanks for the context, I really didn't understand why that showed up on the front page :)
- fennecfoxen 11y ago> Oh, there's context not on this page, it looks like Apple decided confederate flags are verboten in depictions of the civil war. I wonder if they'd do any better replacing them with swastikas.
- zamalek 11y agoContext: http://rt.com/usa/269779-apple-civil-war-games/ http://rt.com/usa/269779-apple-civil-war-games/ Apple and other "major retailers" are pulling anything that includes the Confederate flag as content from their stores because, as we well know, the best way to respond to intolerance is to bury our heads in the sand.
- Mithaldu 11y agoMore context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9777854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9777854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779699
- benihana 11y agoThank you. I had no idea why this was showing up so high, but I was fairly sure it had something to do with outrage over something.
- blfr 11y agoPuritanism never dies. It only gets sillier.
- adventured 11y agoIt's not puritanism. Every culture in the world behaves this way about different topics.
- izacus 11y agoApple, the world's babysitter O.o (Why would a corporation willingly want to play this babysitting game? Doesn't that expose them to bunch of liability?)
- ghaff 11y agoThey're not so much babysitting as pro-actively trying to get out ahead of what they fear could become a PR problem. The situation right now is there's a lot of legitimate public outcry and pressure to remove the confederate battle flag from being flown by government institutions in the South. This is expanding to various stores stopping selling the flag and even calls for renaming military bases called after Southern generals. I'm not saying that I agree with Apple here but I can understand them wanting to avoid any possibility of getting sucked into the controversy.
- AlexandrB 11y agoAs someone who thinks the Confederate flag is a powerful racist symbol, this doesn't make a lick of sense. No one is pulling WWII games even though plenty feature the Nazi flag. Mentioning a thing is not equivalent to endorsing it, this is like burning history books because they also depict the Confederate flag.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- Mithaldu 11y agoI wish people would stop saying that. The idea that swastikas in german games are illegal is unfounded, since no court ever opined on it and to any modern rational person the law text includes games, since it specifically says swastikas serving the purpose of art are fine. More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779987
- AlexandrB 11y agoI think that racists will always find symbols to rally around [1]. Theres a greater danger, I think, in bestowing so much power on a symbol that its use must be tightly controller. Regular people committed the atrocities of WWII, not a piece of cloth. Forgetting that is dangerous. Evil is not a magical force, it's something every human being is capable of under the right (wrong?) circumstances [2]. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/us/on-facebook-dylann-roof-charleston-suspect-wears-symbols-of-white-supremacy.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/us/on-facebook-dylann-roof... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing
- zamalek 11y agoAgreed. If we had truly put this stuff behind us we would be able to defiantly stare down those symbols; instead Apple has cowered in fear: which is arguably handing a victory to intolerance. We will have truly won when we can look at those symbols as nothing more than pieces of history: no emotion either positive or negative would be derived. We have won when we are so far removed from what those symbols mean that we simply cannot comprehend them. If Apple's actions are anything to go by, that war never actually ended. These problems need to be faced, not made as though they don't exist.
- pmorici 11y agoIt's sad that no one seems to have bothered to read the history behind the confederate flag and why it is associated with racism so strongly to begin with. It isn't because it was used by the confederate army during the civil war. It was only one of many flags used by the confederacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Display_at_South_Carolina.27s_state_capitol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_State... The confederate flag wasn't all that common in the south until the civil rights movement in the 1950's and 60's at which point southern legislatures specifically started adopting it as a symbol of their opposition to the federal government's efforts to force southern states to end segregation and enforce the civil rights legislation. In other words it was adopted by the anti civil rights movement explicitly to represent their racist cause. That is why it was put on the South Carolina state house and incorporated into flags of other southern states. That is why it is disingenuous to say it was placed there for 'historical' reasons. Apple's apparent banning of all use of that flag in any context shows a lack of understanding for why it's problematic to begin with and an ignorance of the history of the civil rights movement.
- pdabbadabba 11y agoThanks for pointing this out. The history may not be quite as clear as you (and Wikipedia) say. But regardless, it's good for more people to know that these flags haven't just been flying there peacefully ever since the end of the civil war. Here's a fairly thorough discussion: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/22/eugene-robinson/confederate-flag-wasnt-flown-south-carolina-state-/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/22/...
- makomk 11y agoAs that article points out, all the Southern states that started flying that Confederate flag for the first time in the 50s and 60s in response to the civil rights movement claimed to be commemorating the civil war too. So it'd be hard for Apple to come up with a rule that excluded racists who were using it as an anti-civil-rights symbol but not actual civil war stuff, and they tend to err on the side of banning everything.
- zemanel 11y agoTrue. The best way to deal with darkness would be to let it out in the light.
- pdabbadabba 11y agoThis is not totally true. Apple has clarified that >We have removed apps from the App Store that use the Confederate flag in offensive or mean-spirited ways, which is in violation of our guidelines. We are not removing apps that display the Confederate flag for educational or historical uses. They are working to restore some games to the app store. http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/25/apple-bans-games-and-apps-featuring-the-confederate-flag/#.kfnr2m:HQpI http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/25/apple-bans-games-and-apps-f... Clearly Apple is struggling to draw a sensible line here -- which is probably going to be very tricky. And they certainly should have come up with a reasonable policy before banning things left and right. But, nonetheless, it is no longer correct to claim that >Apple and other "major retailers" are pulling anything that includes the Confederate flag as content
- doe88 11y agoAs much as Apple's decision is highly contestable, I don't know if it is worth trying to make a PR coup by implicitly backing a racist flag. I know I personally wouldn't want to be remembered as being that guy. Anyway, well done Valve, I guess, stick it it to big bad Apple. Edit: to illustrate my point a bit more I think there is a difference between simply proposing a game with historical flags in your store, which I think should always be allowed, and putting a controversial subject in front of your store for PR purpose. For me it's like saying: see, see in our store we have games with controvertial flags - come buy our games. I'm not confortable with that. Maybe I'm wrong though.
- cjslep 11y agoEdit: I misunderstood parent comment when crafting the below response. > a racist flag I'm curious, should all WW2 games be removed because of the facist swastika flag? Or games involving the cold war because of the communist flag with the Soviet Union? In both cases, atrocities that were an affront to humanity occurred with millions perishing in various camps. Which brings up another question: Why stop at video games? Board games physically print these symbols that could be taken offensively. I ask because I have Axis & Allies and Twilight Struggle sitting on a shelf right here, but don't consider myself facist, nor communist, nor insensitive. I don't have a civil war board game but I bet they physically print those symbols too.
- doe88 11y ago> should all WW2 games be removed I don't want to remove nothing, apparently you've misunderstood my comment. It wasn't the point I was trying to make at all.
- Kiro 11y agoYou should clarify your comment then.
- cjslep 11y agoSorry for misunderstanding. As someone who grew up in the South, I have grown to hear the phrase "a racist flag" as one of those trigger phrases that is politically loaded. I now realize your point is about being in questionable taste when using it as a PR stunt.
- hahainternet 11y agoAre the front page games chosen explicitly? I would have guessed they were automated but I have no evidence to suggest that.
- Lennu 11y agoI'm pretty sure Valve, like other online shops, have a content management team which optimizes the shop in all kinds of ways. Automation is probably heavily included but not completely running the shop.
- mwill 11y agoiirc, they used to be curated, over time organic features were added to promote popular games, and the social update brought the "Recommended for you" pages. You can tell explicit placement still goes on, as games that are in the news pop up, so do preorders of big titles, etc. If I had to imagine, how it works now is theres several buckets of candidates, such as popular new releases, curated features (IE "New DLC Available" or "Preorder Now", "New on Steam" etc), and Recommended For You, and a certain amount of titles are shown from each bucket every time the front page is shown.
- theandrewbailey 11y agoDepends on if you're logged in. Valve made a huge update in the past 12 months, where if you're logged in, that shows games (and games similar to those) that you don't have yet recommended by the people connected to you. On the Steam homepage in Steam, about half the games in the top carosel say "Recommended for you".
- jcfrei 11y agothis straw man argument against confederate flags doesn't deserve any further discussions.
- ZeroGravitas 11y agoSo, I'm not american, but I visited that page, and from the comments here I was expecting to see a confederate flag. Instead I see an old C90 style audio cassette? Also, my grasp of American history isn't great, but the south lost this war right? And this particular battle at Gettysburg. And the Gettysburg address is fairly famous. So, if not for the context of this being posted and then other comments here, I would assume this was a total non-event. Am I missing something? What's the supposed link between this and recent happenings with Apple store regulations and racist symbolism in the US? edit: answering my own question, this particular cross-platform game got removed from the Apple app store as they were unwilling to edit it to remove the confederate flag from the game believing they shouldn't fall under the content ban as it was only used in historical context. It's not clear to me if it's presence is anything but a coincidence as it seems to be a well regarded game anyway.
- fenomas 11y agoThe game in the link is the same game Apple removed. So the story is that Steam is promoting the same game Apple blocked. The cassette tape seems to just be the graphic they're using for the top-page feature. The game's store page shows regular trailers screenshots.
- brudgers 11y agoConfederate flag controversies are a means of propagating the American myth that virulent American racism is a uniquely Southern trait and its primary form is based on proximate African ancestry. It's a comforting make believe that allows the American West off the hook in regard to indigenous peoples and Asian immigrants and Spanish speakers, and the states of the former Union off the hook for 100 postbellum years spent condoning Jim Crow and Federalizing its policies under the rationalization of sensitivity to well bread Southern sensibilities [not to mention the North's role in creating the events of the American West]. The current political motivation has far more to do with the shooting happening in a church [as was the case with the Birmingham bombing fifty years ago] than with some sudden realization that flying the Confederate flag represents an expression that going to war for the sake of preserving race based chattel slavery and the political advantage it afforded under the 3/5 clause of the US Constitution was a noble act. Were it nine black members of the Nation of Islam, Alabama wouldn't have pulled the Stars and Bars from the Statehouse this week...it's been flying a three wood from Dexter Avenue Baptist Church and the Southern Poverty Law Center for many years.
- theandrewbailey 11y agoSteam page: http://store.steampowered.com/app/306660/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/306660/ It looks like it's been available for about 8 months.
- viola11 11y agoSeems like they have like the maker put up a new cover image, pretty sure that stupid cassette tape wasn't the official cover image a week ago.
- xmoki 11y ago"We view apps different than books or songs, which we do not curate. If you want to criticize a religion, write a book. If you want to describe sex, write a book or a song, or create a medical app. It can get complicated, but we have decided to not allow certain kinds of content in the App Store." I can create a racist song or book and sell it, i cannot create an historical game.... WTF
- xmoki 11y ago"We view apps different than books or songs, which we do not curate. If you want to criticize a religion, write a book. If you want to describe sex, write a book or a song, or create a medical app. It can get complicated, but we have decided to not allow certain kinds of content in the App Store." I can create a racist song or book and sell it, i cannot create an historical game.... wtf logic
- Crito 11y agoI wonder what the reenactment community thinks of all of this.
- caseysoftware 11y agoBy refusing to show it - even in proper historical context - we're giving the Confederate flag more power. This is just the latest "he who shall not be named."
- protomyth 11y agoMy problem is Apple didn't pull books with a Confederate Flag on their cover. They pulled apps. I am getting a little sick of the stand that developers are not considered for the same creative protections that book authors are. Its bad enough that companies are designing machines that restrict the people who make those machines worth buying, but this constant harassment that no large company would think to apply to movies, tv shows, or books is discouraging.
- ionised 11y agoFor anyone interested, Ultimate General: Gettysburg is a game made by the well-known modder of the Total War series of games, DarthVader. His DarthMod series have been consistently rated as among the best, if not the best overhaul mods available for the series and rightly so. They are really fantastic.
- cmdrfred 11y agoFirst they came for the people who waved confederate flags, and I did not speak out— Because I did not wave a confederate flag.
- chinathrow 11y agoAnd then you realize that if we wouldn't have games about wars (be it civil war games or WWII games or whatnot), we wouldn't have this issue.
- paulhauggis 11y agoI'm wondering when this nonsense will stop. This game is a history lesson for kids. You can't rewrite history, even if you don't agree with what happened. This is the equivalent of digital book burning. Apple isn't removing all of the World War 2 games that contain Nazi symbols. I'm sure there are games that offend Native Americans and other minorities, but those aren't removed. Why? In a related note, this just happened: http://news.yahoo.com/vandals-target-confederate-monuments-half-dozen-states-053121976.html http://news.yahoo.com/vandals-target-confederate-monuments-h... "The graffiti reflects the racial tension that permeates post-Ferguson America" ...And it's excused. The reason I can't stand behind any of these latest protests is because it excuses criminal, savage, and animalistic behavior and this graffiti incident is just another example of it. I suspect in 10 years, our racial problems will not be any better. Mostly because the media and politicians continue to create a divide for their gain and people that question the reality, like me, are silenced long enough that they just stop participating.
- DanBC 11y agoDid you just call black people "savage" and "animals"?
- k__ 11y agoThe point here is, if you voice your opinion, your enemies will use this to voice how their opinion is different. You won't convince people with different opinions than your own to change, but just send them to your enemies.