9 ms·
AT&T fined $100M after slowing down its ‘unlimited’ data
- Zekio 11y agoThrottling speeds after a certain amount of data is not equal to unlimited... serves them right for using the "Unlimited" wrongly :)
- hueving 11y agoWell no amount is unlimited. Throttled or not, you will have a max throughput that will limit how much data you can download in a month. :)
- Zekio 11y agoThat is true, but in a sense an Unlimited plan should allow you to download&upload 24/7 at what ever the max speed is for the full duration of the plan, without throttling. Edited: gramma.
- slayed0 11y agoThat's a terrible argument. Would you say the same if they only allowed 100kb of data transfer before switching to a throttled service (@ 1/100th the original speed)? What you are doing is allowing them to draw a line in the sand and then standing by it and saying it is reasonable. This line should not exist and throttling should only occur when absolutely necessary (when the network is over-saturated). Even then, there should be reasonable expectations of them to not over-subscribe the network based on statistical projections of network use.
- japhyr 11y agoThe fine, which AT&T says it will fight, is the largest ever levied by the agency. Does anyone know how likely this fine is to stick? It sounds like a significant fine to me, but I wonder if these kind of fines are often appealed down.
- leesalminen 11y agoIt may seem significant to us mortals, however the fine is less than 1% of their revenue in 2014.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ProAm 11y agoNo one wants to lose 100M, no one.
- pyrocat 11y agoNo one wants to lose $1000, no one.
- KJasper 11y agoIf you can make 200M and have a risk of paying 100M in the worst case you still make 100M more than you would without doing it. So it's basically calculated risk for these companies.
- redblacktree 11y agoSure, but you would still prefer to never pay the 100M.
- KJasper 11y agoofcourse and they won't. Companies never pay the initial fine...
- unprepare 11y agoNot more than you would prefer to make the 200MM and risk losing 100MM of it. again calculated risk, if theres even a chance that they walk away with all 200mm, and no chance that they end up with 0 or less, then it's worth pursuing.
- istvan__ 11y agoWe should stop lawyers from re-defining words like unlimited. We should make sure that if somebody says unlimited in advertisment or product description it really means unlimited. I know, I am an idealist. :)
- smackfu 11y agoI had to take some training for a BigCo client, and they made a special point that you had to run marketing that used words like "free", "unlimited", and "lifetime" past a lawyer because you couldn't just fine print your way out of the common meanings.
- istvan__ 11y agoI understand that it is much easier to sell something with unlimited (even if it is not) or free (even if it is not).
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- hueving 11y agoSo what does unlimited mean then in your definition? Even before they throttle, you will be limited by the throughput of the cell tower.
- istvan__ 11y agoThis is not about the speed, more like about the volume of data. They limit you after you reached a limit that should have never reach because it was advertised limitless.
- revscat 11y agoInteresting question. "Unlimited: Wherein the amount of bandwidth, measured by megabits/s up/down, will not be artificially affected. While system outages or other technical limitations can at times affect throughput, at no point will AT&T or its subsidiaries place constraints upon throughput based upon the amount of data transferred over the course of one or more billing periods."
- deegles 11y agoMy unlimited plan gets throttled after 5GB usage. From what I understand, a 30GB family data plan won't get throttled until the 30GB are used up. If this is still true, how is it that throttling at 5GB is for "network management"?
- mfoy_ 11y agoBecause at that point the distinction is an arbitrary hand-wave, and they can just drop the point at which they start throttling lower and lower to save money.
- beambot 11y ago[Sorta OT...] Ugh, now we just need goad Comcast into improving their peering. It's pretty sad when the TV viewing experience is better via torrents than Netflix. Comcast is doing some serious throttling.... For me, the Netflix stream is all pixelated, yet we can pull the entire hour-long HD content via torrent in ~5 minutes. Something is amiss.
- MichaelGG 11y agoMaybe it's Netflix that needs better peering? I'm not on Comcast (trying from Central America) and Netflix regularly sucks (but is better than YouTube) whereas torrenting works fine.
- virtuallynathan 11y agoComcast doesn't do any throttling, and have tons of interconnection, including direct connectivity with Netflix. http://corporate.comcast.com/news-information/news-feed/comcast-and-netflix http://corporate.comcast.com/news-information/news-feed/comc...
- beambot 11y agohttp://qz.com/256586/the-inside-story-of-how-netflix-came-to-pay-comcast-for-internet-traffic/ http://qz.com/256586/the-inside-story-of-how-netflix-came-to...
- codazoda 11y agoT-Mobile throttles my "unlimited" family plan. The main number gets 3G and each additional gets 1G and then is throttled. Are they also on the radar or is it less of a problem for them because they give you the throttle data up-front (while still using the unlimited word). In reality, however, when you hit your limit it becomes almost unusable.
- darkstar999 11y agoThey tell you up front, so I don't think it's an issue. Technically it IS unlimited.
- pki 11y agoThe problem is that it's quite literally not fit for use. It's some completely fucked software rate limiting or something that produces insane packet loss, pages don't load at all, IRC barely works, ssh breaks up and dies. I don't mind being shaped to 5KB/s, but at least give me something resembling a consistent 5KB/s, not 12KB/s for two seconds and then 300 bytes/s (actual measurement) for the next half hour at 50% loss. It is quite literally unusable, even if unlimited. And I like Tmobile, but they don't even let me buy additional data.
- saryant 11y agoAre you talking about data above the 21GB limit on their "unlimited" plan or the 2G data you get after going above your data limits on the lower plans? I only pay for the 1GB plan but I haven't found it unusable when I go above that and I can buy a one-time increase if I like.
- pki 11y agoI'm on "Unlimited web" plan, but not 21GB.
- darkstar999 11y agoInteresting, I haven't had that much trouble after getting throttled by t-mobile. I can definitely feel it, but it doesn't completely break like that.
- rail2rail 11y ago> But consumers are unlikely to receive any money from the fine, which will go instead to the U.S. Treasury, said the agency official. Well why the hell not?? If we were the wronged party, should we not benefit from the settlement directly?
- csours 11y agoBecause its a fine, not a lawsuit. Even for a lawsuit, that would be like 50 cents per person, and most people would never claim it, especially former customers.
- briandear 11y agoIt shouldn't go into the general treasury, that's for sure. It should be earmarked for relevant infrastructure projects and not just pissed away.
- madaxe_again 11y agoIt'll be a cold day in hell before this sticks. They'll use every slippery tactic in the book to justify it and to fight it, they'll bribe^Wlobby the appropriate parties to legally define "unlimited" as "limited", and even if they are stuck with it, they'll just not pay. I mean, what, are they going to arrest executives? Give me a break. There's no recourse either way.
- pdabbadabba 11y ago> They'll use every slippery tactic in the book to justify it and to fight it, they'll bribe^Wlobby the appropriate parties to legally define "unlimited" as "limited" You don't think they tried this before they were fined?
- madaxe_again 11y agoOf course. The fine is just a step in the process towards them being exonerated, a mere formality.
- eli 11y ago$5 says you're wrong and AT&T does indeed pay a cash fine.
- allsystemsgo 11y agoI received a text just the other week from ATT letting me know I reached 75% of the 5GB network management threshold, and that I may experience reduced data speeds. Anything I can do about this now?
- baldfat 11y agoGENERAL PUBLIC can be swayed into not knowing that Internet Data is not a commodity. People treat Data like it needs to be grown and a limited resource that the ISP must harvest and think it is unfair that you use more for data usage. I try to explain that Data is more like a pipe and at certain times they can't get all the data through at the same time. So if this was about throttling for their network they would just do it during "Peak" times and not 24 hours a day. I still feel this is a move to charge per amount of data and not speed access.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- CRASCH 11y agoI think this falls under a reasonable interpretation of the unlimited. a reasonable person would understand that there are bandwidth limits both technological and environmental. A reasonable person would expect that the level of service they signed up for would continue or get better over time. I see two issues. One is that after a certain amount of data is used they limit bandwidth. If you limit something it is hard to call it unlimited. The other issue is that early on throttling was not in place. They specifically added throttling to entice users to switch to more lucrative data plans.
- TheLoneWolfling 11y agoI do not agree. I would potentially reluctantly agree, iff the throttling was only during peak hours and when things were actually overloaded. And if they had been doing so from the start. ("I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." is incredibly shady.) But they weren't on either of those things. They throttled after a certain amount of data per month, and it was a flat throttle.
- gubby 11y agoI disagree. That the word 'unlimited' exists in the language does not mean there must be a place and justification for it found in marketing material. The only reasonable interpretation of a word is its meaning; since there are no shortage of words to describe non-unlimited data plans, the mobile networks should use those instead.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoAnd yet PAM non-stick spray is marketed as 'fat free' when its 100% fat. And so on. Marketing has its own Brave New World rules.
- newobj 11y agoUmm, did they STOP throttling in addition to this settlement? It feels like they did. I was getting throttled like crazy in March and April (I have no internet at my house other than AT&T LTE for stupid reasons, so I have to tether all the time), but in May and June, I seem to mostly never get throttled anymore... or if I do it's much more modest. Anyone else notice a change?
- twoodfin 11y agoApparently they stopped throttling when the area you're connecting from is not experiencing congestion: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/05/07/att-scales-back-unlimited-data-throttling/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/05/07/att-scales-back-unlimite...
- dsp1234 11y agoI'd like to see something like on the packages of food: "No artificial limiters added"
- sschueller 11y agoSwisscom in Switzerland sells unlimited data plans that are capped at different speeds depending on how much you pay per month. Just like a DSL or cable plan. I find this a lot more fair than selling unlimited that isn't. Or killing grandfathered accounts by capping them.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- twoodfin 11y agoI'll be shocked if after this AT&T continues to grandfather in their "Unlimited" plans. Which is too bad, because mine is a really great deal even treated as a 5GB/device plan.
- jdlyga 11y agoAT&T is still doing this as of yesterday. I just got a text that I've used 75% of my "unlimited" plan
- jsprogrammer 11y agoAdd it to the FCC's evidence pile.
- brotoss 11y agoYep, got this last week. Full text: ATT Free Msg: Your data has reached 75% of the 5GB network management threshold. If you exceed 5GB this month, you may experience reduced data speeds at times and in areas that are experiencing network congestion. Wi-Fi helps you avoid reduced speeds. For more info visit...
- mangeletti 11y agoTo put this into perspective: $100MM is 0.0759878% of AT&T's 2014 gross revenue, so less than 1/10th of 1%. That's like earning a $100,000/yr salary, and then paying a $75.99 fine. It's basically less than your average speeding ticket.
- angersock 11y agoReminds me of an old joke about Consolidated Edison: "A million bucks? They'll fine me well--a minute's income shot to hell."
- dragonwriter 11y ago> $100MM is 0.0759878% of AT&T's 2014 gross revenue Which is completely irrelevant. To the extent a revenue comparison is relevant, the relevant revenue isn't AT&T's 2014 gross revenue, its the revenue over the period of the activities covered by the fine attributable either to the unlimited data plans, or to other data plans to which people switch from unlimited plans once the slowdown was in place.
- mangeletti 11y agoThat is to suggest that past activities have no bearing on future earnings? If I cheat by committing a crime this year that saves me money, then continue earning more money each year from here out, all while squashing competitors, is the advantage I gained by cheating this year no longer relevant in 5 years?
- deadmik3 11y agoTrue, why does the time frame of one year matter? How long do they have to pay the fine?
- Alupis 11y agoIt's more than just a fine -- it's a precedent that tells AT&T et al this practice will not be tolerated. 5 years from now if AT&T resorts to this practice, you can bet the FCC et al will have no problems levying a much more severe consequence.
- deleted 11y ago
- calbear81 11y agoWhat's the likelihood this will lead to some type of compensation for unlimited data users that were throttled?
- revelation 11y agoWe need to stop calling this practice "slowing down" or "throttling". If you are slowed down, you'll be limited to 56kbit or less, by artifically induced packet loss. At this point, most websites and other internet services will just completely stop working as the massive packet loss suffocates any payload. It's like advertising unlimited miles on a rental car, then slowing it down to 5mph after 200 miles. Sure, the car still moves, but you can't practically use it for anything.
- d0ugie 11y agoBy the way, go here if you'd like to request a Project Fi invite: https://fi.google.com/signup https://fi.google.com/signup
- ytdht 11y agoI think AT&T should be fined (or be the target of class action lawsuit) for constantly lying to customers/future customers... the most common example being lying about u-verse being fiber-optic going to their customer's homes (while it only goes to a central box in the neighborhood).
- Alupis 11y ago> the most common example being lying about u-verse being fiber-optic going to their customer's homes (while it only goes to a central box in the neighborhood). And that doesn't even matter since no U-Verse internet speed even comes close to what a true fiber connection could carry (1Gbps+). In my area, the fastest U-Verse internet offered is 18Mbps down, so fiber or not, it's irrelevant.
- ytdht 11y agoI think that it is relevant even if the maximum offered speed by AT&T doesn't reach the full bandwidth that fiber optic could provide (one example is ping might be a lot lower on fiber optic, or customers think that they have the latest technology, or that costs should be lower with fiber optic, etc..., but the main one is lies, why lie if it doesn't matter)
- negrit 11y agoThe issue with this kind of fine is that the profit is greater than the fine so they will continue to do shady things like this. Also people in charge for approving this should be held accountable.
- adventured 11y agoThe premise is for the FCC's fine to also act as a warning shot. If AT&T doesn't change behavior, the next fine will be more. The FCC has claimed the high ground against AT&T and Verizon, as witnessed by the net neutrality victory.
- mamcx 11y agoThis is so sad. The fine is pay to somebody else than the victim. Is like when Intel get fine for screw AMD, and the money go to some EU institution: Why not pay it to the victim? That is what this is stupid, and a no-justice.
- anigbrowl 11y agoWell, it gives the victims standing to sue, but even then the attorneys will take about 35% and you'll probably just get a $20 credit on your bill or somesuch. And the FCC can use the money towards the universal service obligation by either subsidizing phone plans for the poor or encouraging the building of public access internet.
- tw04 11y agoYou might want to pick a different example. Intel paid AMD over a billion dollars as part of their settlement. The money they paid to the EU as a fine was on TOP of the money they paid AMD, not in lieu of.
- mamcx 11y agoAh, I don't know that detail.. good to know
- rasz_pl 11y agoThere are countries where you cant simply LIE in a commercial/promotional material. I remember the case of Apple being fined and their ad campaign pulled when they tried to claim selling “the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer” (PowerPC times). On the other hand in my country its ok for actors to lie about being doctors in commercials :/ ("Im a doctor and X is best for you")
- ianstallings 11y agoCan we classify this as a revenue generating legal briefing on the net neutrality issue? Or is that wishful thinking?
- fnordfnordfnord 11y agoIf this were a just world, in order to appeal the fine AT&T would have to first pay the fine, Net 30, and deal with the federal courts via an outsourced call-center in order to receive a credit on their account.
- jschwartzi 11y agoAnd the credit might or might not apply during the next three billing cycles. Is there anything else I can help you with today? No? Have a nice day!
- JoshGlazebrook 11y agoI kind of saw this coming after the whole Verizon fiasco when they tried to throttle their LTE network and the FCC and media made it a frenzy and they backed down. But then again, Verizon's main wireless spectrum they use for their base layer of their LTE network has the open access rules attached to them that pretty much forbids the throttling of any devices using the spectrum and forcing them to allow any device on their network that is capable of using it. I'm glad I still have my Verizon unlimited data plan. I renewed my contract (unlimited line is out of contract in August 2016), by using the transfer upgrade loophole last year. But they are the only carrier that does not throttle their LTE network at all, and also allow you to officially pay for unlimited tethering, something no other carrier has ever offered. On top of that the open access rules attached to the C block of the 700mhz spectrum they use lets me pop my sim card into a dedicated lte router, tablet, hotspot, etc. Even devices that Verizon stores refuse to activate for you like a T-Mobile bought iPhone, or any device that is not sold as "for verizon". It's unlocked and works on the network you can pop your sim card into it and it will just work.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- JoshGlazebrook 11y agoAfter 21GB they de-prioritize you. Even on the unlimited 4G LTE plan. That doesn't happen on Verizon, people push multiple terabytes a month on those plans and have no throttling or deprioritization of any kind. It's in the fine print: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html > *Unlimited 4G LTE customers who use more than 21 GB of data in a bill cycle will have their data usage de-prioritized compared to other customers for that bill cycle at locations and times when competing network demands occur, resulting in relatively slower speeds. See t-mobile.com/OpenInternet for details.
- myth_buster 11y agopeople push multiple terabytes a month on those plans and have no throttling or deprioritization of any kind. Interesting. I'm in the market for an unlimited plan and am vetting providers. It would be helpful if you could link to the info.
- random778 11y agoI'd like the fine to be in the form of refunding affected customers for the period they were defrauded.
- williesleg 11y agoSo that means our rates are going up again. So sick and tired of these hidden middle-class taxes.
- flippyhead 11y agoSo awesome.
- bede 11y agoT-Mobile UK (now largely assimilated by the EE mothership) comprehensively denied the existence of an 18-hours-a-day 4mbps throttle placed on its unlimited plans [1] for several years before getting in trouble with the regulators. As far as I'm aware they weren't even punished, which is a shame given how blatantly deceptive their practices were. This strikes me as a reasonable fine. Well done FCC. [1] http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/t-mobile-s-unlimited-full-monty-plan-is-actually-limited-for-16-hours-a-day-says-asa-1145215 http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobil...
- lewisl9029 11y agoAny idea what the legal landscape for these kinds of issues is like in Canada? Wind Mobile also advertises unlimited plans yet throttles starting at a mere 3GB... https://www.windmobile.ca/plans-and-devices/plans https://www.windmobile.ca/plans-and-devices/plans Granted, their true rates are still better than their big telecom counterparts, but I still find this distasteful as a marketing tactic.
- johnpococito 11y agonobody said unlimited mean fast internet all the time... and they inform in terms, internet speed will decrease! People must start using brain and start thinking or you will end like europe (government will forbid you everything and tell you everything what u can or not... how much u can earn and what kind of light bulb you are allowed to buy in shop... ehh).
- johnpococito 11y agonobody said unlimited mean fast internet all the time... and they inform in terms, internet speed will decrease! People must start using brain and start thinking or you will end like europe (government will forbid you everything and tell you everything what u can or not... how much u can earn and what kind of light bulb you are allowed to buy in shop... ehh).
- treha 11y agoWhat to the BURNED Customers Get? ZERO?
- ksec 11y agoOn a side note, I wonder if one day, 5G, or 6G even, will allow us to have Complete Wireless Broadband. No more Last Mile Wired connection. No longer need G.Fast or VDSL2. Just Wireless connection that gives you 100Mbps ( Real world ) with unlimited data.