5 ms·

Which is wildly successful and doesn't cost us taxpayers a dime. If our "leaders" stopped actively sabotaging the USPS, it could be doing even better.

yummyfajitas 11y ago
It was only wildly successful until our leaders "sabotaged" it by forcing it to obey standard actuarial practices. (Unlike the rest of the govt, the USPS is now required to fully fund it's pension plans.) See this comment for a more detailed explanation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6710602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6710602 Also, it's pretty hard not to be "wildly successful" when you get a legally enforced monopoly. Comcast is also "wildly successful", but we certainly don't want to expand that model.
- themartorana 11y ago
  Yes and no. It's a monopoly that can't charge what it takes to stay afloat. Raising prices or changing delivery schedules requires an act of Congress! No member of Congress wants to have to answer for that, so the price of sending a letter hundreds - if not thousands - of miles, to be hand-delivered remains under one-half of one dollar $USD. THAT IS INSANE. It's been argued, deftly, that even with a decline in volume for mass mailers, raising the price from $0.49 to $1 would not only put the USPTO all the way in the black but enable them to meet obligations for years to come. But convince Congress that it's a good idea...
  - refurb 11y ago
    Wait a second. I thought they would be profitable if it weren't for the pension funding? If so, then $0.49 per stamp is high enough.
  - SamReidHughes 11y ago
    They can make a profit by paying their workers less. This is really about the USPS workers' union vs. Congress.
    - themartorana 11y ago
      And your company could make more by paying you less. But that would be unfair, wouldn't it?
      - blfr 11y ago
        That's exactly what every profitable company does: pay their workers less than they otherwise could. The only alternative is to distribute all profit among employees. (And some people who believe that profiting from other people's work is immoral advocate just that.)
      - aianus 11y ago
        Not at all. In fact I would expect them to do so were it not for competitive offers from other employers.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
austenallred 11y ago
>Which is wildly successful and doesn't cost us taxpayers a dime You might want to double check your info on that one. The US Postal Service lost $32 Billion over the past four years. USPS losses: * 2011: $5.1 Billion * 2012: $15.9 Billion * 2013: $5.5 Billion * 2014: $5.5 Billion 2011/2012: http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/15/news/economy/postal-service-record-losses/ http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/15/news/economy/postal-service-... 2013: https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.htm https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.... 2014: https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2014/pr14_059.htm https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2014/pr14_059....
- binxbolling 11y ago
  My understanding was that almost all of that is due to the insane benefits and pension requirements placed on the USPS in 2006. Happy to be corrected if I'm offbase.
  - coryrc 11y ago
    The same ones private corporations are required to follow.
    - camgunz 11y ago
      The US doesn't require private corporations to offer a pension at all. If they do voluntarily, it's almost always a 401k. The USPS' pension funding forced on it by a "starve the beast" Congress is much different.
      - refurb 11y ago
        The US gov't sure as hell requires private corporations with pensions to make sure they are fully funded. The pension might be optional, but running an underfunded one is not.
        billyhoffman 11y ago
SeoxyS 11y ago
If it was wildly successful, how did we end up with tons of private competitors with a large market share (FedEx, UPS, DHL, OnTrac, etc). The U.S. Is one of the only countries where the state run postal service isn't sufficient. In Switzerland, for example, there is only the Swiss Post. Most countries, to my knowledge, operate with just one major postal network.
- themartorana 11y ago
  Because Microsoft, Dell, Apple, etc. can all exist and be wildly successful at the same time?
- Fomite 11y ago
  That awkward moment when you realize DHL is a German company. There's also a number of alternate services for the post in a number of other countries. FedEx is not a duplicate of the post - it's for sending small but high value things extremely fast. And between FedEx One Rate and FedEx Smart Post, it's pretty clear that they view USPS as a competitor to be respected.
- gohrt 11y ago
  There are many niches within the general category of "post". USPS's focus (and monopoly) is on first-class and bulk mail. How much cost/time does it cost Swiss Post to ship a package 4000km ? It's at least 3x the price of USPS: https://www.post.ch/en/private/a-z-of-subjects/prices-sending-and-receiving-mail/private-prices-sending-mail/private-international-letter-prices https://www.post.ch/en/private/a-z-of-subjects/prices-sendin...
  - darklajid 11y ago
    Erm. What are you comparing here? I read your comment as 'Given USPS can send a package over 4000km in the same country, let's compare that with international charges in Switzerland'¹. Is that correct? Because that would be a liiiittle bit misleading in my world and I'd like to compare Swiss international charges with a USPS delivery from New York to Reykjavik please. ① Apologies if that isn't the case. But 4000km just felt too close to the east coast to west coast distance.
yeukhon 11y ago
> Which is wildly successful and doesn't cost us taxpayers a dime. If you count in taxbreak and other benefits, it actually does, especially USPS finance is in decline.
snomad 11y ago
Which only survives by selling our addresses and delivering 100s of billions of pieces of spam to our mailbox. The legitimate mail for which i ostensibly exists is drying up quickly.
matwood 11y ago
> Which is wildly successful and doesn't cost us taxpayers a dime. You have to be kidding! The USPS is a disaster and barely works. I'm about to cancel my prime membership because Amazon started using the USPS although Amazon have finally got the message at least for my account and rarely use them now. Look up Prime and USPS if you want to see pages and pages just how bad service is with the USPS.
- phil21 11y ago
  I used to think people like you had to be lying, because my service with the USPS in the Minneapolis area growing up was absolutely stellar. The value on the dollar was by far the best, and the friendly counter agents would help you figure out how to ship something the way you want. Then I moved to Chicago and understood why the USPS gets such a bad rap. Lines a mile long, counter agents that can be called uncaring at best, tons of misdelivered/undelivered mail, etc. It was like two entirely different services. I'm since back in Minneapolis and the USPS here is just as reliable as UPS or Fedex. 9 out of 10 packages arrive on time, which is about average for all of them.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    Huh. I live in the cities and have always been happy with USPS and am always baffled by other peoples' complaints about it. Interesting to know it's because our local service is outstanding.
- checker 11y ago
  What if I told you that USPS was probably carrying some of your Prime packages for Fedex and you just didn't know about it? http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-mail-does-the-trick-for-fedex-ups-1407182247 http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-mail-does-the-trick-for-fede...
  - matwood 11y ago
    SmartPost and SurePost? Yeah, if I see that I call Amazon and tell them to cancel the order because basically I will not get the package. They simply refuse to bring packages to my door, even though according to the regulations they have to. I've tried talking to the local post master, but he avoids me ('he's in a meeting', 'I'll have him call you', 'Yeah, don't wait because he'll be awhile'). What's funny is that Amazon now has a special Sunday delivery service through the USPS and somehow they get delivered, but any other day of the week they do not. It's so bad, confusing and illogical sometimes I just laugh at the situation. But, it's only a situation that can happen in a government agency.
vonklaus 11y ago
poor b8, 1/10. Please try harder.

yummyfajitas 11y ago

It was only wildly successful until our leaders "sabotaged" it by forcing it to obey standard actuarial practices. (Unlike the rest of the govt, the USPS is now required to fully fund it's pension plans.) See this comment for a more detailed explanation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6710602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6710602 Also, it's pretty hard not to be "wildly successful" when you get a legally enforced monopoly. Comcast is also "wildly successful", but we certainly don't want to expand that model.

themartorana 11y ago
Yes and no. It's a monopoly that can't charge what it takes to stay afloat. Raising prices or changing delivery schedules requires an act of Congress! No member of Congress wants to have to answer for that, so the price of sending a letter hundreds - if not thousands - of miles, to be hand-delivered remains under one-half of one dollar $USD. THAT IS INSANE. It's been argued, deftly, that even with a decline in volume for mass mailers, raising the price from $0.49 to $1 would not only put the USPTO all the way in the black but enable them to meet obligations for years to come. But convince Congress that it's a good idea...
- refurb 11y ago
  Wait a second. I thought they would be profitable if it weren't for the pension funding? If so, then $0.49 per stamp is high enough.
- SamReidHughes 11y ago
  They can make a profit by paying their workers less. This is really about the USPS workers' union vs. Congress.
  - themartorana 11y ago
    And your company could make more by paying you less. But that would be unfair, wouldn't it?
    - blfr 11y ago
      That's exactly what every profitable company does: pay their workers less than they otherwise could. The only alternative is to distribute all profit among employees. (And some people who believe that profiting from other people's work is immoral advocate just that.)
    - aianus 11y ago
      Not at all. In fact I would expect them to do so were it not for competitive offers from other employers.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

austenallred 11y ago

>Which is wildly successful and doesn't cost us taxpayers a dime You might want to double check your info on that one. The US Postal Service lost $32 Billion over the past four years. USPS losses: * 2011: $5.1 Billion * 2012: $15.9 Billion * 2013: $5.5 Billion * 2014: $5.5 Billion 2011/2012: http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/15/news/economy/postal-service-record-losses/ http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/15/news/economy/postal-service-... 2013: https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.htm https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.... 2014: https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2014/pr14_059.htm https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2014/pr14_059....

binxbolling 11y ago
My understanding was that almost all of that is due to the insane benefits and pension requirements placed on the USPS in 2006. Happy to be corrected if I'm offbase.
- coryrc 11y ago
  The same ones private corporations are required to follow.
  - camgunz 11y ago
    The US doesn't require private corporations to offer a pension at all. If they do voluntarily, it's almost always a 401k. The USPS' pension funding forced on it by a "starve the beast" Congress is much different.
    - refurb 11y ago
      The US gov't sure as hell requires private corporations with pensions to make sure they are fully funded. The pension might be optional, but running an underfunded one is not.
      - billyhoffman 11y ago

SeoxyS 11y ago

If it was wildly successful, how did we end up with tons of private competitors with a large market share (FedEx, UPS, DHL, OnTrac, etc). The U.S. Is one of the only countries where the state run postal service isn't sufficient. In Switzerland, for example, there is only the Swiss Post. Most countries, to my knowledge, operate with just one major postal network.

themartorana 11y ago
Because Microsoft, Dell, Apple, etc. can all exist and be wildly successful at the same time?
Fomite 11y ago
That awkward moment when you realize DHL is a German company. There's also a number of alternate services for the post in a number of other countries. FedEx is not a duplicate of the post - it's for sending small but high value things extremely fast. And between FedEx One Rate and FedEx Smart Post, it's pretty clear that they view USPS as a competitor to be respected.
gohrt 11y ago
There are many niches within the general category of "post". USPS's focus (and monopoly) is on first-class and bulk mail. How much cost/time does it cost Swiss Post to ship a package 4000km ? It's at least 3x the price of USPS: https://www.post.ch/en/private/a-z-of-subjects/prices-sending-and-receiving-mail/private-prices-sending-mail/private-international-letter-prices https://www.post.ch/en/private/a-z-of-subjects/prices-sendin...
- darklajid 11y ago
  Erm. What are you comparing here? I read your comment as 'Given USPS can send a package over 4000km in the same country, let's compare that with international charges in Switzerland'¹. Is that correct? Because that would be a liiiittle bit misleading in my world and I'd like to compare Swiss international charges with a USPS delivery from New York to Reykjavik please. ① Apologies if that isn't the case. But 4000km just felt too close to the east coast to west coast distance.

yeukhon 11y ago

> Which is wildly successful and doesn't cost us taxpayers a dime. If you count in taxbreak and other benefits, it actually does, especially USPS finance is in decline.

snomad 11y ago

Which only survives by selling our addresses and delivering 100s of billions of pieces of spam to our mailbox. The legitimate mail for which i ostensibly exists is drying up quickly.

matwood 11y ago

> Which is wildly successful and doesn't cost us taxpayers a dime. You have to be kidding! The USPS is a disaster and barely works. I'm about to cancel my prime membership because Amazon started using the USPS although Amazon have finally got the message at least for my account and rarely use them now. Look up Prime and USPS if you want to see pages and pages just how bad service is with the USPS.

phil21 11y ago
I used to think people like you had to be lying, because my service with the USPS in the Minneapolis area growing up was absolutely stellar. The value on the dollar was by far the best, and the friendly counter agents would help you figure out how to ship something the way you want. Then I moved to Chicago and understood why the USPS gets such a bad rap. Lines a mile long, counter agents that can be called uncaring at best, tons of misdelivered/undelivered mail, etc. It was like two entirely different services. I'm since back in Minneapolis and the USPS here is just as reliable as UPS or Fedex. 9 out of 10 packages arrive on time, which is about average for all of them.
- coldpie 11y ago
  Huh. I live in the cities and have always been happy with USPS and am always baffled by other peoples' complaints about it. Interesting to know it's because our local service is outstanding.
checker 11y ago
What if I told you that USPS was probably carrying some of your Prime packages for Fedex and you just didn't know about it? http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-mail-does-the-trick-for-fedex-ups-1407182247 http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-mail-does-the-trick-for-fede...
- matwood 11y ago
  SmartPost and SurePost? Yeah, if I see that I call Amazon and tell them to cancel the order because basically I will not get the package. They simply refuse to bring packages to my door, even though according to the regulations they have to. I've tried talking to the local post master, but he avoids me ('he's in a meeting', 'I'll have him call you', 'Yeah, don't wait because he'll be awhile'). What's funny is that Amazon now has a special Sunday delivery service through the USPS and somehow they get delivered, but any other day of the week they do not. It's so bad, confusing and illogical sometimes I just laugh at the situation. But, it's only a situation that can happen in a government agency.

vonklaus 11y ago

poor b8, 1/10. Please try harder.