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June Intelligent Oven
- zoba 11y agoAny idea why an oven needs an "NVIDIA Tegra K1 with 2.3 GHz quad-core processor and 192 CUDA GPU cores"? Seems like overkill?
- jcromartie 11y agoTo stream video from the full HD camera. Now, any idea why an oven needs a full HD camera?
- rodeoclown 11y agoThe camera is to recognize what recipe you put in the oven. Not sure if full HD was required, but maybe they found it gave better accuracy for the cost difference.
- RyanZAG 11y agoSo you can show off your food cooking on your phone to (hopefully) envious commoners who can't afford to spend whatever this costs on an oven. - Signed, an envious commoner.
- mattdotc 11y agoTheir 'special' price is $1500 if you pre-order. Looks like they want to charge double that after their promo period ends. Any good cook is not going to need some gimmicky gadget like this and will likely stay clear of this. You could get so many other great tools and more useful gadgety things for what they're asking. Immersion circulator, anyone?
- lambdaelite 11y agoI picked up an Anova a few months ago for $150. That might be the best bang for the buck kitchen purchase I've made. Certainly ranks up there with a stand mixer and microplane.
- VLM 11y ago"other great tools" I probably have $1500 in cookware and my knife collection and large stand mixer and just cooking stuff in general, but if you buy quality it lasts decades (or at least it used to), which might be a slightly longer time horizon than the typical gadget, or in this case, toaster oven.
- mattdotc 11y agoAgreed one hundred percent. I try to stay away from single-purpose gadgets, myself, out of desire to save space, but there are a few things I look forward to buying in a few years' time. A few (2-4?) good knives (full tang), a honing steel, a large wood cutting board, and a knife block would likely be the first things I'd recommend someone starting out to get, along with a basic knife skills class. In addition to buying quality items, caring for them properly will definitely serve you well.
- scottmwinters 11y agoThis thing is cool, really cool. So the novelty factor easily makes it worth more than another toaster oven. But I can go get another toaster oven on Amazon for 5% of that, so..yea, staying clear
- adam-a 11y agoApparently it can recognize what you put inside it from the camera. You can also stream the video to your iPhone - allowing you to post time lapses of your roast chicken to Vine I suppose.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> You can also stream the video to your iPhone - allowing you to post time lapses of your roast chicken to Vine I suppose. I think the main selling point of streaming HD video is it allows you to check visual indicators of doneness without walking over to the oven.
- MrBuddyCasino 11y ago> allowing you to post time lapses of your roast chicken to Vine I suppose People constantly post their nice-looking food to Facebook, I'm sure this will be its main purpose.
- danbruc 11y agoTo be able to identify the food you put into it using machine vision. Now, any idea why an oven needs to identify the food you put into it?
- bhartzer 11y agoI don't think any computer out there can properly identify the food that I attempt to cook...
- pdabbadabba 11y agoPerhaps not. But it definitely can't without a camera.
- athenot 11y agoImage recognition with visible spectrum is pretty limited. I can put a egg-based or sugar-based glaze on something and it will turn brown faster, without making the meat cook any faster. What might be more interesting is a gas-phase chromatography which analyses the vapors and deduces the various reactions going on. But that's going to be severely over-kill (and incredibly priced).
- VLM 11y agoPersonally if I were writing the firmware I'd put in color correction based on a DSP filter of the last couple minutes of heating element power (because everything looks falsely red under a red heating element) and then analyze the color corrected image to brown/broil my chow such that its perfectly browned while not incinerated. Sometimes there isn't much time difference between browned and burned, think of caramels, etc. Likewise I feel microwave ovens should have a microphone to sell captured conversation data to corporations and the NSA ... oh wait strike that ... I mean analyze the sound of popping popcorn and stop the oven at a time that optimized the poppping yield while optimistically minimizing burning. Given the bifurcation of the american economy into a small number of uber rich and a vast number of dirt poor, its hard to sell a $3000 oven when that represents a substantial portion of a line cook's annual salary. If you only use it a hundred times its cheaper to hire a cook either directly or indirectly via a restaurant owner. The uber rich could afford $30K or $300K so you're leaving cash on the table, and the average $30K/yr joe6pack will never be able to afford it. The game plan could be to monetize as much as possible in the short term before the Chinese clones arrive at walmart for $99 rather than being a sustainable luxury goods business. Or maybe not.
- dhess 11y agoDoubles as a heating element?
- emranemran 11y agoThey're going to need some serious volume to source those K1s from nvidia.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> Any idea why an oven needs an "NVIDIA Tegra K1 with 2.3 GHz quad-core processor and 192 CUDA GPU cores"? Obviously, to power the food identification, analysis, and cooking program recommendation system that makes it a "Smart Oven".
- untog 11y agoStill seems like overkill, though. Just like the "beverage identification" in Vessyl, it presumably adds a reasonable amount to the cost of the thing (as well as another breakable component) when selecting "A chicken leg" in an app or something would be sufficient.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> Just like the "beverage identification" in Vessyl, it presumably adds a reasonable amount to the cost of the thing (as well as another breakable component) when selecting "A chicken leg" in an app or something would be sufficient. Selecting common recipes from the console is a fairly common feature even in inexpensive microwaves and toaster ovens. Moving that to a phone app isn't really much of a comparative selling point, and its cheap and easy for existing incumbents in the market to replicate. Onboard identification is much more of a unique feature. Sure, it adds quite a bit to the cost, but -- as long as it remains relatively unique -- it probably adds more to the appeal and potential selling price than to the cost.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- dragonwriter 11y ago> Obviously none of us know the price breakdown but it adds to a cost that will total $3000 for non pre-orders. Even if it's a very useful feature, that much money for an oven that is too small to cook a meal for a family ensures it will not reach a mass market. The first popular countertop microwave oven was sold in 1967 at a price that is equivalent to about $3,500 now. New tech in appliances is often very expensive; the early adopters (as in many fields) are people that aren't very price sensitive if there are new features that aren't available elsewhere. Anyway, a countertop oven that can handle up to 11"x16" baking dishes isn't too small to cook a family meal, so even if your premise was correct, its not really applicable to the device in question.
- bryanlarsen 11y agoThe oven can tell the difference between beef and pork. http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/9/8751947/june-oven-identify-your-food http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/9/8751947/june-oven-identify-...
- CHY872 11y agonVidia positioned the K1 towards the automotive industry (for all of driver assistance, computer vision etc) [0]. Since control systems there will be similar to control systems with this oven (knobs, dials etc) I'd imagine that there's simplifications there; furthermore there'll be decent product support etc. SoCs cost at most like $20 each (if you have scale, which these guys won't)); the cost amounts from elsewhere. They'll form a comparatively small part of the total cost (which they can iterate on in later editions) but that make things simpler overall. If they wanted to, they could just include dev boards in the devices; at $300 it would only be 10% of the price. [0] - on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc/2014/presentations/S4412-tegra-k1-automotive-industry.pdf
- Mister_Snuggles 11y agoPerhaps that is the heating element
- mey 11y agoUsually I downvote or ignore snarky comments on HN as the site tries to keep things on topic and somewhat constructive, but I have to admit I had a good laugh at this.
- jerrysievert 11y agoI have one of these, it doesn't run very warm at all (yes, I recognize that was a snarky comment). I was wondering the same thing, but am thinking that it could be part of the food recognition engine.
- rpcope1 11y agoCame here to say, this seems like a job for a low power 16-bit or 32-bit MCU, probably not that Tegra chip. Or are we Bitcoin mining while we cook dinner?
- aaron695 11y ago> Any idea why an oven needs an "NVIDIA Tegra K1 with 2.3 GHz quad-core processor and 192 CUDA GPU cores"? Seems like overkill? This is why this oven exists??? Or do we think image recognition and AI is easy and can be programmed up on a weekend on a phone?
- adam-a 11y agoSeems like a fun idea, and it potentially allows really precise cooking with the internal probes too. Hopefully they don't go to overboard with the social media and wireless connection and focus on making something practical in the kitchen. For example, including over the air updates. I am imagining an XBox like scenario where you just want to cook dinner but you have to wait 20 minutes for it to update.
- profinger 11y agoYou just saying that has elevated my blood pressure. Firefox does the same thing. GRRR haha
- london888 11y agoAre we now going to have ovens with social media accounts?
- jon-wood 11y agoWhy not? You can have it Instagram your dinner without even having to take it out of the oven.
- ykl 11y agoI want to hear John Syracusa do a review of this oven.
- brooklyndavs 11y agoDamn, someone beat to this joke!
- MBCook 11y agoI saw people mentioning him in tweets about this thing yesterday. The review of a Hamilton Beach from yesterday's ATP was good.
- lambdaelite 11y agoAt first glance it looks really neat, but I was disappointed to see that this doesn't have combi oven functionality. For the price I would guess this would retail at, I wouldn't be willing to buy this over a combi oven. edit: I missed that the MSRP is $3000. I was right, I'm not willing to consider this over a (for example) nice built-in Wolf combi oven in the same price bracket. I'll also argue most people would be better served with a combi oven over this device. There are some neat ideas here, but I don't get the appeal.
- bryantraywick 11y agoI have been thinking the same thing. For this price, for a so-called "smart" oven, there is no excuse that it's not a combi or cvap oven. I wouldn't consider purchasing any standalone oven appliance for this price unless it was combi or cvap. Before any other "smart" features I'd want: * Precise temperature control between ~100F-450F * Precise humidity control from 0%-100% relative humidity * Dry bulb temperature, wet bulb temperature, and an internal temperature probe (preferably up to 2 internal probes). * High temperature sear/broil If you want it to be "smart" then forget the camera identification and allow me simply select "roast chicken" and have it cook to an internal temperature of ~155F (165F if you so choose) at 100% humidity before automatically turning the humidity down to 0% and switching to broil to crisp the skin.
- lambdaelite 11y agoWell said—completely agree.
- lifekaizen 11y agoThat's how we built our app, you tell Cinder it's chicken and it's the time/temperature profile. You can also manually control temperature precisely from 70F to 525F, and the even high heat sear has amazed many chefs. We looked at steam but it's challenging because water reservoirs limit cooking time, or running plumbing is beyond reach for most homes (but something restaurants do). I'd like to build one in the future. Meanwhile, Cinder is $499 (email me for a HackerNews discount: eric@cindercooks.com).
- VLM 11y agoI think you could make a lot of money branching out into reflow oven land. Provide degrees C and controlled ramp up and ramp down rates. Time lapse video of the solder reflowing. Twitter integration "Hey I just reflowed a SMD PCB" Clearly you can make more profit off an individual reflow oven than an individual glorified toaster oven. Although you can sell more toaster ovens than reflow ovens. Well, probably. HOWEVER the insightful part is the reflow oven model is the same hardware with a different software load and probably a custom sticker that says something like "never for use with food after interior is contaminated" or similar. There may be some OSHA or FCC/EMI recert issues to sell a reflow oven (semi-)commercially instead of as a home toaster oven, but its probably pretty small potato costs. There are, of course, competitors in the world of toaster oven sized SMD reflow ovens. But this is a nice looking oven. However "The suggested MSRP for the June Intelligent Oven is $2,995" and even in reflow oven land thats kinda steep. Also talk to a metal worker who does powder coating. Another "converted toaster oven" job with peculiar temp control and ventilation issues. Again, you're a simple new software load on the same old hardware away from a new product in a new market. I believe powder coating would be pretty rough on the optics and the glass door, but it might work anyway if the user is careful. I suspect your hardware can't handle it but a desktop kiln for ceramics or enameling artwork is an interesting idea. Finally how good is your low temp control, could you "air sous vide" or just provide a stable environment for rising bread? low temp stability is harder than you'd think, probably. You may already be able to do this, it just didn't make the cut to the website.
- advertising 11y agoSeems superfluous. The instagram upload of the cookies was a̶n̶ ̶e̶y̶e̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶e̶r̶ well placed,
- cottonseed 11y ago> Reaches 350°F in 4 minutes and 15 seconds. Not going to work as a reflow oven, unfortunately.
- mumrah 11y agoI'm skeptical how a small form factor oven like this could provide even heating that is required for many kinds of baking, even if it has convection fans. Also, having such a small volume means that most of the heat will escape when the door opens making it difficult to get that crucial "oven spring" for bread baking. It seems like a perfectly acceptable (albeit pricy) alternative to a toaster over, however.
- lambdaelite 11y ago> Also, having such a small volume means that most of the heat will escape when the door opens... Supposedly, there's an air curtain to help with that problem. > It seems like a perfectly acceptable (albeit pricy) alternative to a toaster over, however. It may be an alternative to a toaster oven, but is that a good thing? Even the best toaster oven isn't very good, if you go by testing by Cooks Illustrated for example. I don't see how this one can perform any better given, as you point out, the physics limitations of a small oven.
- nathan_long 11y agoSensing the internal temperature of a roast and cooking until it's done is a nice idea. Convection and aesthetics are good. Efficiency is good. The HD camera, food detection, phone app, and touchscreen are waaaay overkill, in my opinion. I don't want to have to put my oven on the WiFi, and it shouldn't need software updates. The useful functions ought to be simple enough to code once and ship.
- warvair 11y ago"Over the air updates" via wi-fi? For an oven... I'm feeling a little luddite-y.
- compumike 11y agoThere's a market developing here within the "temperature controlled smart cooking" world, with the number of different engineering approaches growing rapidly. Y Combinator alone has funded three companies in this space already! Pantelligent (YC W13) - $199 - https://www.pantelligent.com/ https://www.pantelligent.com/ - smart frying pan plus smartphone app. Recipes are smart software & give you instructions to adjust on the fly to provide perfect results every time. Works for any dish you can cook in a frying pan (steak, salmon, eggs, veggies, ...). Cinder (YC W15) - $499 - https://cindercooks.com/ https://cindercooks.com/ - electric grill style countertop appliance with smart recipes on smartphone. Nomiku (YC W15) - $249 / $199 pre-order - http://www.nomiku.com/ http://www.nomiku.com/ - sous-vide water bath immersion circulator June Oven - $2995 / $1495 pre-order - https://juneoven.com/ https://juneoven.com/ - countertop electric oven style Consumers have a wide range of options and that's pretty amazing, because fundamentally, the technology (temperature controlled cooking) works great and it's something I believe a lot of people are going to want to have in their home. It's like "process control 101" -- time and temperature -- finally made it to the kitchen. (Disclosure: I'm an engineer & co-founder of Pantelligent. Words can not convey just how delicious a Pantelligent-cooked salmon or steak is. Paul Graham said, "This pan made the best salmon I've ever cooked. In fact, better than I've had in almost any restaurant." If you're skeptical, check out some of our hands-on reviews; we were recently on NBC TODAY Show, CBS This Morning, and Popular Science's "Top 10 Inventions of 2015". And if you're still skeptical and live in the SF Bay Area, email visit @ pantelligent.com and we'll see if we can schedule a visit to our Sunnyvale warehouse so you can try it out for yourself!)
- bryanlarsen 11y agoYou forgot Meld: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meld/meld-a-perfect-meal-every-time/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meld/meld-a-perfect-mea... ($129 pre-order) To me, it looks the most compelling because it's both the cheapest and most versatile. I backed both Pantelligent & Meld. But if Meld would have kickstarted first, I wouldn't have backed Pantelligent.
- compumike 11y agoThanks for your support Bryan! Meld is certainly interesting; manufacturing is going to be a challenge for them with a lot of moving parts, but in any case, it may work for some soups/stews types of dishes, but it won't be compatible with most of Pantelligent recipes (asparagus, eggs, crepes, pancakes, bacon). And a Meld-style internal temperature probe alone would be significantly worse than Pantelligent for foods like steak and salmon; I know that at first glance it seems like internal temperature is the temperature to measure and optimize for, but you also have to control the external/surface temperature or else it's "unobservable" and will lead to either undercooked or overcooked meats! You can not simply do feedback around the internal temperature. (That's one of the key engineering insights of Pantelligent.)
- outsidetheparty 11y ago> Like cruise control on your car, June continually calculates the power needed to maintain a constant temperature So you say it has a thermostat in it, then? > Food cooks faster while using less energy than traditional ovens So you say it's a convection oven, then? > June sends you a push notification when your food is done. And you can customize your alerts so you aren’t disturbed you when you’re away from home. So you say I can disable the alert... that tells me dinner is ready... because I'm away from... um. Somebody didn't really think this one through, then?
- DanBC 11y ago> So you say I can disable the alert... that tells me dinner is ready... because I'm away from... um. Somebody didn't really think this one through, then? Ann doesn't want alerts from her oven when she's away from home. Bob, who is at home, will still need to use the oven.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> > Like cruise control on your car, June continually calculates the power needed to maintain a constant temperature > So you say it has a thermostat in it, then? Having a thermostat is not the same as continuously maintaining a constant temperature. Typical "dumb" ovens have thermostats, but they maintain a rough temperature by turning on, overshooting the target temperature, cutting the heat entirely, dropping substantially under the target temperature, and repeating that cycle. > So you say I can disable the alert... that tells me dinner is ready... because I'm away from... um. Somebody didn't really think this one through, then? There's often more than one person who lives in a home and may use an oven. Its quite possible for one of them to be away from home and not want notifications, while another is at home and using the oven.
- nathan_f77 11y agoThis looks really awesome. I probably won't be an early adopter, but I'm definitely looking forward to more smart kitchen appliances. I just hope they can all work together. It's kind of stupid if my frying pan, oven, and fridge all have their own competing recipe apps and databases.
- nviennot 11y agoThis reminds me of my DIY reflow oven: http://viennot.com/reflow_oven.pdf http://viennot.com/reflow_oven.pdf
- joshcanhelp 11y agoI've been a huge fan of toaster ovens for as long as I've been heating up food and just can't seem to find one that does what it needs to do well. It toasts too slow or it's the wrong size or heats unevenly. Seems like a simple problem to fix but I've been through 5 different ones over the last decade+ with mostly lame results. As such, this is _very_ appealing to me. I haven't owned a microwave in several years so the ability to reheat something while I'm somewhere else in the house is fantastic. A little pricey for me (not saying anything about the value, just a lot to spend) but I might just go for it.
- lambdaelite 11y agoIf you trust Cooks Illustrated, Breville's top end toaster oven ($250 on Amazon Prime) is at the top for toaster oven performance and works well. Have you tried that one? Personally, I'm more interested in auditioning Cuisinart's mini combi oven ($300 on Amazon Prime) before going all in on a built-in, but I haven't read any reviews I trust yet.
- Animats 11y agoIt's a reasonable idea, but it needs to cost $300 instead of $3000. Expect clones to be available in Shentzen at that price point by next year.
- compumike 11y agoYes and no; pure hardware clones are one thing, but high quality software, content, customer education about a new product category, and marketing are not categories that cloners have (yet) done particularly well. Beyond that, hardware lends itself to hard IP protection -- Pantelligent's technology is patent pending, and it's likely that other smart cooking products are as well.
- TheMagicHorsey 11y agoI wish they would give us the specs for the actual oven hardware ... as opposed to the specs for the computer in it.
- choward 11y agoSo it's "smart" and costs $3,000. Are there public APIs or am I at the complete mercy of their software?
- dmix 11y agoSo many of these consumer products and "IoT" deprioritize public APIs, it's a shame... They are missing out on potentially huge sub-communities.
- petegrif 11y agoIt's very ugly.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- kolev 11y agoAnother oversimplification of the culinary art, but this time - a costly one!
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- colept 11y agoThe warranty is only one year - not ideal for a $3000 counter top appliance.
- jqm 11y agoI'm holding out for a kitchen system that orders and stocks the food, fetches it from the fridge, (at the touch of a button) prepares and plates it and then (most importantly) washes the dishes and puts them away. This current oven incarnation seems like more bother and expense than it would be worth. More stuff to get in the way and break. Not KISS at all. But then again I'm a good (and fast) cook and simply can't see how the smart oven would do anything to help. To be charitable, maybe this technological step is necessary to realize the dream of fully automated food preparation. I fully expect one day to see this dream fulfilled. And from this perspective a hearty round of applause for the inventors.
- bootload 11y agoDoes it recognise all my food? "Food ID uses the camera and sensors to recognize commonly cooked foods. The camera communicates with the NVIDIA K1 Quad-Core ARM Cortex and the NVIDIA Kepler GPU with 192 CUDA cores." ~ http://support.juneoven.com/article/69-how-does-food-id-work-does-it-really-recognize-all-my-food http://support.juneoven.com/article/69-how-does-food-id-work... How about an oven that: - cleans easier? - use less energy? - stop me getting burnt while extracting trays? - have simple ergonomic controls? - in-built smoke detection? - a loud timer? - warms up faster? These are all real-world problems that don't require software/hardware looking for a problem. I'm disappointed when I see the novelty approach taken to to solving problems of cooking. I thought this was already achieved with the microwave? Instead what I would really like to see is a way to determine if food is going off, contaminated and where it comes from. This kind of food-tech would rock!
- pcl 11y ago- warms up faster? The website claims a pretty fast pre-heat time of just under 5 minutes, which is probably mostly attributable to the compact size -- a smaller volume can be heated faster. I didn't notice anything about how the heating element works ongoing, though, so it's unclear whether that's just the time to heat the volume of air, or if the walls and ceiling are kicking off enough radiation to sustain cooking at that point. I'd assume the latter, given the price tag. - use less energy? I would expect this oven to use less energy than a traditional home oven, since they advertise consistent heating and good insulation, both of which tend to be lacking in most home kitchens. Again, the small volume will be an energy saver as well. - have simple ergonomic controls? They claim that it'll recognize the food when you put it in, and prepare it to your requested style based on their computer vision and machine learning algorithms.
- silencio 11y agoIn comparison to a toaster oven though, a lot of the non-smart functionality is moot. Even a middling toaster oven should offer a lot of the same savings/convenience, and a top-of-the-line one is a tenth of the MSRP (e.g. http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-oven-pro.html http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-oven-pro.html).
- wumbernang 11y agoAnother stupid product which exists for the sake of technology. $3000 for a fucking oven. Seriously. For that you can get a professional kitchen oven with decent warm up time, is easy to clean and serviceable for a couple of decades without too much effort. Also how does it see through the tinfoil over my chicken? Does it know the difference between a sirloin and a rib eye? Dear hardware startups: Stop taking random things and adding technology and $2000 to shaft some cash off people with loose credit habits. Build stuff that is fundamentally game changing. Now I know that's hard, and that's the point.
- roel_v 11y agoWhile the camera is useful if the image recognition works well, I don't see this things being as good as one of my Miele ovens. They heat up faster, have many automatic programs including with temperature probe, and with the steam oven I can cook vegetables and other things as well. That said, there is a lot of room on the software side to improve. I have 100 ideas that are 'easy' to implement that could life the Miele range to another level, but in my contacts with them, it seems like they are typical in that they're very hardware focused.
- malandrew 11y agoI don't know about this, but I would love a secure peripheral for controlling my oven over the internet that also had high quality thermometers. I particularly enjoy slow cooking meat all day, but need to budget time to come home before it nears my target temperature. If I could measure the temperature of the meat remotely and adjust my oven, that would be awesome (or even set a limit at which the oven will stop cooking and lower the temperature to keep the meat warm only). What I don't want is to buy an entire oven. I want to be able to buy a high quality oven/range like a Wolf and use such a device with a high quality oven of my choice.
- crimsonalucard 11y agoI need something smart enough to beat the microwave.
- phmagic 11y agoReminds me of Ronco's products: https://www.ronco.com/products/rotisserie-ovens/4000-stainless-rotisserie.html https://www.ronco.com/products/rotisserie-ovens/4000-stainle... Just set it and forget it