25 ms·

Be Kind

• weeksie 11y ago
  Spot on. I think it's tough, particularly as a young guy, to hold back on being overly confrontational. I used to be horrible to be around, not just professionally, but in nearly every way. Super fighty and abrasive. I'd like to think that it was through mindful practice that I've managed to tame my aggression. Perhaps it is, partly. But the real reason that I'm a lot easier to get along with now probably has to do with aging out of the testosterone-flooded decade of my 20s.
  • aidenn0 11y ago
    I think it is mindful practice; I'm in my mid 30s and probably more abrasive than in my early 20s, despite having much less testosterone-fueled aggression.
    • weeksie 11y ago
      Ha! Perhaps. I'm sure it's a lot of things. I also grew up working on fishing boats in Alaska and what passed for civil discourse out there would be fighting words in most professional environments. Mindfulness is tough though. I've actually had to work pretty hard on being aware of my reactions and the intentions behind them. If I find myself getting upset, my face getting hot or my fingers tingling, then I ask myself what it is I want out of the situation I'm in. Usually the best way to get that is to take a deep breath and try to understand _why_ the other person doesn't understand my point of view. Of course, being aggressive is a very useful trait at times. Learning when to use that trait is the tricky part.
• grandalf 11y ago
  While the author may have been a very talented engineer, there are also a lot of mediocre engineers (and members of other professions) who happen to act like jerks. Don't assume that just because someone is crotchety, indignant, or combative that he/she is intelligent.
  • spb 11y ago
    I generally assume the opposite. If an engineer is outstanding, their actions can speak for themselves, and they won't have to put on airs; if an engineer is mediocre, their only option to hide it will be arrogance.
    • orand 11y ago
      There's a third type: the engineer who is outstanding but is addicted to being perceived as brilliant, so they layer extra arrogance on top, never conceding points, overstating facts and contributions, etc. to make themselves appear even more brilliant. When I encounter these types, I think to myself "If you just didn't feel compelled to overstate things, you'd be truly awesome."
• mankyd 11y ago
  I really like these two paragraphs towards the end: Being kind isn’t the same as being nice. It isn’t about superficial praise. It doesn’t mean dulling your opinions. And it shouldn’t diminish the passion with which you present them. Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence affects them. This get's missed a lot here on Hacker News. Many people are often hostile towards content creators or other commenters. It's perfectly OK to disagree with someone; but please consider doing so in a respectful and thoughtful tone. Remember that others often shut-down when they read criticism, even when well warranted. The way you phrase and present yourself defines whether you're giving criticism or critique.
  • drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    To be fair, this is also incredibly exhausting. Most peoples' reactions to things are arbitrary at best and constant worrying about how they will take something is just way too much BS to put into my day. I bought pretty deeply into this philosophy once and it just made me neurotic and quiet at a time of my life where those things very much hurt me. I think being selectively kind makes a lot more sense. I'm kind to children and animals and my loved ones. People at work, retail staff, etc should be prepared to not have their emotions constantly validated and deal with disagreement and other things that are unpleasant. I'm not one of those "grow a thick skin, jerk" types, but there's this cheap sentiment I see about how everyone needs to be more kind and compassionate, and when its not phoned in, it usually ends up as a way to take advantage of others. Its easy for celebrity millionaire Kurt Vonnegut to write about compassion and be quoted by tumblerinas and its totally another thing for some kid no one gives a shit about trying to make his way in the world try to live it. I find high-concept philosophies are often the playthings of the well-off and comfortable. If you're fighting for your living, its not a luxury most of us can have. Sadly, this often justifies hostility, but I think there's a sane middle-ground here, but curt statements like "be kind" just seems so classist and off-putting to me. Like a soccer mom telling me how wonderful the Maharishi is or how relaxing doing 4 hours of Yoga is (no, she doesnt work, her husband does) and after I got off a long shift and dealt with a lot of shit and a crappy commute. Cheap sentiment just doesn't resolve the fundamental issue facing humanity today and probably until our final extinction event: we are all competing for the very same resources and competition can sometimes be ugly. It doesn't need to be truly awful and we shouldn't be encouraged to be overly negative and vindictive, but conflict and disagreement happens on a certain level and pretending we can kindly make it go away is just being unrealistic about our fundamental economic beings. Kindness is often taken advantage of as one party feels obligated to engage in it moreso than the other. This is a fairly large problem in gender politics where we raise women to be kind and then they find themselves at a disadvantage to men in the workplace who don't have these values. Considering everyone here is visiting a hard-nosed libertarian-leaning entrepreneur forum about becoming wealthy quickly, but the second something pseudo-spiritual gets posted suddenly we're all Siddhartha under the Bodhi tree. We're not. If anything, the personality types here are very, very far from any sort of selfless ideal. Patting ourselves on the back because our six-figure salaries let us rise above the struggle doesn't mean the struggle doesn't exist and that struggle means acting in a rational, usually unkind way. High class pseudo-spirituality is such a hilariously hypocritical thing its a running gag on HBO's Silicon Valley, yet here we are Gavin Belson'ing it up. At least I'm honest with myself to say that, no, I'm not "kind" by these standards and that I will argue and fight with you when I feel its appropriate and more importantly -- I will not feel bad about it afterwards. Sadly, most of the replies to my comment are fairly unkind responses telling me how much of a horrible person I am, especially to retail staff even though I gave no concrete examples of how I act. How ironic. If anyone is truly interested, I meditate daily and follow Buddhist ideals. I just refuse to go to the yogi-like extremes of insincere self-love in an attempt to con my way out of the struggle of Samsara. Accepting the reality of who I am is real mindfulness and liberating, and that person is not this uber-kind enlightened being who is 'above it all' and I doubt anyone here reading this is either. If anything, if we're buying into cheap manufactured sentiment that just happens to be self-complimentary, I'd say we're fairly far from that ideal. The same way we point at the nasty evangelicals will hearts full of hate who pat each other on the back for being so pious. Lets not go that route, as tempting as it is. All the technology is showing you this message was made by sweatshop-style labor. We're just not kind.
• mavdi 11y ago
  People seem to underestimate this but I've learned this lesson myself the hard way. Your absolute most important skill is not to make a dick of yourself next to your co-workers. Even if it means doing things wrong for a while, it is essential you don't hurt feelings while slowly pushing for things to change.
• slvv 11y ago
  "Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence affects them." I think this advice is so apt and so needed. There's a perception that to be effective or powerful, one must also be harsh, stern, a little bit mean. That stems from a misunderstanding of what kindness is. Hopefully people will heed his advice!
• wehadfun 11y ago
  This guy has a 3 letter domain for his personal blog. How did he land that?
  • scott_karana 11y ago
    WHOIS shows this: Registered On February 08, 1999 I guess availability was better then, or he made some good cash in the .dot era and bought it outright from someone else?
  • mod 11y ago
    Domain Name: BOZ.COM Updated Date: 2014-04-25T14:55:25.00Z Creation Date: 1999-02-08T05:00:00.00Z In 1999 things were much, much different.
  • slyall 11y ago
    First registered in 1999. It used to be pretty easy to get random little .com domain names before they got real cheap and every single word, short string and misspelling got bought. eg I own a three letter .net that I don't even use.
  • mark-r 11y ago
    I have two different friends with 3 letter .com domains. It's all about being an early adopter.
• babababa 11y ago
  The author is self aware and empathetic. But even if he wasn't or his natural inclination was not to become more kind, it's a really good thing to fake (and will hopefully become natural over time). Being kind is the right thing to do even if you're selfish/looking out only for yourself. A lot of really smart jerks are held back because other people don't want to work with them. Even if they're promoted for their individual contributions, they will always be limited by how much they individually can achieve vs. as a team.
• buckbova 11y ago
  I'm definitely more patient than I was a decade ago, but I still have little use for useless people. I don't feel like I have to be kind to those who aren't motivated to contribute and do thoughtful work.
  • mapmap 11y ago
    I empathize with you. But be careful, the trouble is that those people fill their time at work with political games. They are dangerous to someone who wants to be head down doing great work.
  • rifung 11y ago
    If you read the article, the author is talking about his relationship with coworkers, so I'm going to assume we are talking about one's relationship with coworkers. That being the case, I certainly hope you don't think any of your coworkers are "useless." You don't have to be kind; you don't have to be anything. On the other hand, if you want to be a good engineer, with goodness defined as how much one contributes to the team/company, then you probably should be kind. If you feel like your teammate is unmotivated then it seems like if you want to be a good engineer you would do your best to motivate that person. Having an uncaring attitude towards your coworkers could well lower their motivation which would mean your net contribution to the team is lessened as well.
  • pcunite 11y ago
    "I still have little use for useless people" The trouble with this is that you could be wrong. They might be "useless" to you but not the rest of the world.
  • mfringel 11y ago
    The problem with useful/useless is how often you have to re-run the function with people you see more than once. Run it only once, and perma-store the info? Their state could change and you miss out on opportunities. Run it each time and behave accordingly? That doesn't work, either. People know when they're being used. Honestly, being kind all the time sounds like a lot less work.
  • crimsonalucard 11y ago
• eclipxe 11y ago
  The best manager I ever had (and continues to be my inspiration today) was also one of the kindest, genuine, and empowering people I've ever met. Not necessarily nice, but kind. The worst manager I ever had once told me "you're too kind to your team". He wore his ability to bring fear to a room like a badge of honor. I never worked harder and more passionately than under the first and I never felt more apathetic and unmotivated from work than under the second. A single data point, but something I'll never forget.
  • cgio 11y ago
    Surprisingly, the kindest manager I had (and still have) at the same time wears his ability to bring fear to a room in an impressively efficient way. I have never experienced a room transitioning from theoretical daydreaming to practical results so fast, just because someone enters it. Amazing skill if you use it appropriately and if it emanates from knowledge rather than being mean.
  • buckbova 11y ago
    Did the second manager fire you? He doesn't sound so unkind letting an apathetic unmotivated lead keep his or her job. It doesn't seem like we're getting the whole story here. That second manager might have been an ass, but it seems like he got the job done.
    • eclipxe 11y ago
      No, the second manager didn't fire me - my apathy and lack of motivation didn't keep the team from shipping or themselves being demotivated. A key thing the first manager taught me was that a good leader is able to keep their team motivated and moving forward in spite of problems above - shielding the team, etc. And the second wasn't an ass - he just used fear as a management technique. As opposed to the first manager that used empowerment and encouragement. I do see a fair share of managers that use fear/authority/power as a technique to get results, but for me (and I see for many other peers) it is counter productive in the long run. Respect earned from fear/position is short-lived. Respect earned from trust and empowerment will stay with people their entire careers and pay dividends.
  • 11y ago
• zk00006 11y ago
  This guy wants to be super cool and cover just everything. Be kind, be super programmer, have tattoo, write blog ... Thinking about the post, I quite understand why people don't want to work with such superheroes. Kind will not make it if it is one other thing you want to be good at. Don't show off too much will do.
  • eclipxe 11y ago
    That's kinda...uncalled for. Seems like you have personal issues with him? What does having a tattoo have to do with anything, or am I missing something?
    • zk00006 11y ago
      Personal? No sir.
  • S4M 11y ago
    Yep, that post has lots of humblebrag in it.
  • jonsterling 11y ago
    Glad somebody said it...
  • anon012012 11y ago
    I agree with the idea, maybe, but not the phrasing. You're quick to judge people you don't know, and shame them when they have the courage of sharing. At the end of the day, his post is on the front page, and it's doing good.
• benihana 11y ago
  This hits so close to home for me personally. I recently got some feedback that seemed very similar (it seemed much more useful and constructive than what boz got) and I recently had a similar realization about my friends putting up with me. Thanks for writing and publishing this. It's very good.
  • midnightmonster 11y ago
    If you received or find good ways to actually make these changes, please write about it.
    • benihana 11y ago
      Thanks for the encouragement, I think I might.
• midnightmonster 11y ago
  Author's 'before' picture is me very often. I'm nearly ego-less in pursuit of the truth--more than ready to be shown wrong myself--but that doesn't mean that coworkers and loved ones end up feeling good about the conversation. I hope he will write a "how to" follow up, because I would like to change, but I don't see how to do it in a way that doesn't sound impossibly exhausting. I'm hopeful that it actually is possible, though, because for 30+ years I had never been able to keep any space well-ordered for more than a few weeks, nor had any reason to think I ever would be able to. I read "the life changing magic of tidying up" and it turns out I can do it--I just needed to be taught how. This may not seem relevant, but it's been life-changing not so much to have a tidy office, but to learn that what I assumed was a fixed personal trait was changeable after all.
  • fsniper 11y ago
    I think reading, "How To Win Friends and Influence People " from Dale Carnegie helps. Took me years to understand soft skills are as much or more important than technical skills. (Fixed book's name)
    • spb 11y ago
      It's "How to Win Friends and Influence People", and it's one of Paul Graham's recommended books (see http://www.paulgraham.com/startupfaq.html http://www.paulgraham.com/startupfaq.html ), along with the Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin. There's also "7 Habits of Highly Effective People", which is often recommended in the same breath.
      • fsniper 11y ago
        Shoot, I wrote it correctly at first, and after checking for the authors correct name with google, I screwed and put it wrongly. That search is still open and the text is correct there. Actually, I don't know how I managed this screw up.
      • beat 11y ago
        I did a lightning talk a while back called "7 Habits of Highly Effective DevOps", adapting the habits and the organization of them to doing DevOps well.
• cjdrake 11y ago
  Several well-known people in tech are notorious jerks. So I don't think being kind is a necessary condition for career success (though it can't hurt). But I suspect it's necessary to have a happy life.
  • sarreph 11y ago
    Many of such said 'jerks' are often the ones at the top, however: i.e. nobody above them to be put off their ability to communicate or display typical good teamwork.
  • buckbova 11y ago
    If you're great at what you do, you can afford to be an asshole. But it doesn't mean you have to be one.
  • bgun 11y ago
    Being well-known also means your worst moments get more attention than might be deserved. Even kind people have bad days, but a bad day for a Fortune 10 CEO can follow them for life. Maybe unfair, but it's one of the (more reasonable) reasons for the inflated paycheck.
  • Zelphyr 11y ago
    Imagine what they could achieve if they were kinder to people.
    • gnaritas 11y ago
      Or what they couldn't if they were. Sometimes being an asshole contributes to success rather than stymies it, see Linus and Linux.
• neverartful 11y ago
  Nice article. When did the golden rule get invalidated?
  • aidenn0 11y ago
    I don't know Boz, but having known others like him, I would say that many didn't actually violate the golden rule; people who are efficient and brash often not only don't mind, but expect others to act the same way.
  • thisisboz 11y ago
    The Golden Rule (treating others as you want to be treated) isn't actually very good. I prefer the Platinum Rule (treat others as THEY want to be treated)
    • duderific 11y ago
      Yes, the Golden Rule is good, because it assumes that you are the same as the other person (generally most people want to be treated with kindness and respect), rather than assuming that they are somehow different from you.
      • KaoruAoiShiho 11y ago
        Agree with the Platinum rule. If you meet a big variety of people you'll learn fast that they want to be treated differently. There's a lot of room for social or cultural differences in humanity. Just as an obvious example, the golden rule is why a lot of guys send dick pics.
    • applecore 11y ago
      The Platinum Rule isn't very good either. My preference is the converse of the Golden Rule: DON'T treat others as you would have them NOT treat you.
      • nostalgiac 11y ago
        How is the Platinum rule good? When would treating someone how they want to be treated go wrong? Your converse golden rule suffers the same problems as the golden rule - everyone should be treated individually, treating others the same as you expect people to treat you will not always work out as intended.
• alashley 11y ago
  Totally agree with the premise of this article. Being kind involves being empathetic and putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Most times, this involves taking a step back and not reacting in the moment (to the best of one's ability). Passion can be a good thing, but not without restraint and self-awareness.
• butterfi 11y ago
  Good for you Boz! Some people go their whole lives without learning that lesson. One of my favorite pieces of advice I ever received was "be direct, be specific, and be non-punishing." At the time, I thought it was trite advice, but its one of the more useful tidbits I've heard.
• aristus 11y ago
  This is a fantastic article from Boz. I have to be blunt in my criticism, however, as I imagine Boz would expect and appreciate. I had a few run-ins with him in the early 2010s and I don't see much evidence that he learned from these experiences or changed his basic working pattern. Or maybe he was even more raw before I met him. :) I learned very early on not to have anything Boz wanted nor to cross him. It's hard to judge the impact of what people don't say, once they get into the habit of not saying certain things around you.
  • thisisboz 11y ago
    Yup, this post is about the start of a journey that is still ongoing for me. It still takes work and I still lose focus and do poorly and tried to call that out at the end. To your specific point, I probably was even worse in 2008 than what you experienced in 2010. That's probably true at every point since. I'm getting better, but I am sure you can find people even in the last year who would say this post doesn't reflect the Boz they met. I believe those people are getting fewer and their experiences less bad, but I am definitely not great at this yet so the post should be taken as a belief I hold and a behavior I aspire to.
    • hckr1292 11y ago
      Thanks for the honesty and careful articulation! I find myself to be a bit of bulldog myself, and it's hard to change ingrained habits. Thanks for the reminder!
    • pdkl95 11y ago
      > Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. > the start of a journey that is still ongoing Then you still have a long way to go on that journey, because you apparently have no idea the damage you've done to the world with Facebook. You have help lead people into undermining their own privacy, straight into the hands of a surveillance state. So keep on that journey. Maybe in a few decades, when it is far too late, you'll realize how much you have hurt humanity. For the time being, I expect you'll just dismiss this entire post. /sigh/ I don't have many regrets in life, but you, "Boz", are one of them. I wish I never ran those 4-H programming projects, and never worked to get you interested in computers. It probably wouldn't have changed much, but maybe the problem we call "Facebook" would be just a little bit easier to fight.
• euphoria83 11y ago
  Not being kind also blinds you to other people's achievements.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  • consptheorist 11y ago
    I'm 100% logical/analytical with machines and 100% emotional/manipulative with people.
    • andrewstuart 11y ago
      It's not in your interests to be manipulative. People know when they are being manipulated, or they figure it out later and relationship rapidly goes out the window. You don't need to be manipulative with people to get what you want.
      • consptheorist 11y ago
        A realist here, I'm manipulative only with my foes. My friends and love interests I value them tremendously and I don't resort to such measures when dealing with them.
• kamilszybalski 11y ago
  Don't they also call this empathy. I think it's critically important to resist the temptation to fire back at someone the moment you think you disagree. Take a few seconds, repeat in your head what the other person has said, then repeat that back to the person, then formulate a response. Remember, the hardest thing to do is to control your emotions, especially during times where most people can't help but get defensive.
• fsk 11y ago
  I had a completely different interpretation of the incident at Facebook. He had developed some key features that were now important. Instead of mentoring him to work better with others, his boss demoted him. The boss was giving someone else a favor, making them the lead of this now-important project, some up-and-coming hotshot. He made up an excuse about "bad attitude", while just using it as cover for backstabbing him. The OP probably had big $$$ in unvested options, so he had to play along and play nice, instead of quitting on the spot.
  • thisisboz 11y ago
    I'm going to write a follow up about how I wasn't mad about the feedback as much as I was mad nobody had told me sooner. We were a young company and didn't really have a management or mentorship skillset yet. We would all develop that together in the ensuing years and this was a major part of my motivation for pushing for it.
    • fsk 11y ago
      I still say that someone gave you a shit sandwich, and tricked you into believing that it tasted good.
      • thisisboz 11y ago
        I'm a lot happier. If that's a trick, I'm not mad about it.
        • hinkley 11y ago
          Are they making you say this? Blink once for yes, two for no.
    • hellbanTHIS 11y ago
      Sounds like there weren't any grownups around, honestly. I'm also getting the feeling that it's a fire-happy kind of place, maybe I'm wrong but that could explain the note-passing childishness. Maybe they were afraid of getting canned if they talked back to you. I don't know if this is a lesson about being nice or a lesson about dealing with different personality types, I guess it depends on how much of an asshole you actually were. Personally I'd prefer an environment where you call my work "shit" and I say you have your head up your ass, it saves time and it's better than passive-aggressive weirdness and underhandedness but not everybody is like that. Any place where people are arbitrarily fired is going to be toxic though, the reaction from the CTO and a few other things I've heard about Facebook kind of makes me think that's what's going on.
• dcpdx 11y ago
  I'm currently re-reading the classic "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie, and one of the principles he outlines to win people over to your way of thinking is to "show respect for the other person's opinion. Never say 'you're wrong'." He tells a story from Ben Franklin's autobiography outlining how insolent and opinionated he used to be, to the point that nobody could stand being around him. One day, someone wiser and older pointed this out to him and from that moment, Franklin made it a point to never directly contradict people or positively assert his own opinions. Instead, he'd say things like "I may be wrong. Let's examine the facts." This warmed people up instead of immediately putting them on the defensive and completely changed the success he had in dealing with people. A little tact and diplomacy goes a long way towards persuading others towards your way of thinking. And you never have to say "you're wrong."
  • mark-r 11y ago
    An amazing story, when you consider that later in life Benjamin Franklin was a diplomat.
• pcarolan 11y ago
  amen
• jqm 11y ago
  I dunno. There's a balance. Kindness in some situations just isn't the right thing. But it certainly is in most situations.
• chrisbennet 11y ago
  I wonder how much of this inability to be nice to others/empathize is due to tech selection bias and how much is due to lack of socialization as children? Before computer games, etc., kids spent a lot more time playing outside with their friends in person.
• fideloper 11y ago
  IDK, maybe I'm forgetting what it's like to be earlier in a dev career (I'm 30), but how much I see "this resonates me" more than "duh" is a bit scary. I suppose we're all on a scale of ability to be empathetic (and can learn be more emphatic), but who goes into a job with this attitude? Cheers for learning! I just wish all of our upbringings could bring us this lesson earlier in life. Because...it should. You graduated Harvard, and got a job where you acted like you knew everything. I suppose that's typical of college grads everywhere though, I'm not trying to be too harsh.
• zallarak 11y ago
  This is a phenomenal read and a great reminder to be nice.
• brendangregg 11y ago
  Well written. Some companies have "no asshole" or "no brilliant jerks" policies to stop hiring or tolerating such behavior. Eg, it's included in the Netflix culture deck: http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664/35 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664/35 . That slide deck is promoted during the hiring process, and you are encouraged to study it. As Boz writes, you might not have thought it through before, and if you do, you can realize that being kind can mean being more productive than just being right. So perhaps having it in a culture deck, given to job applicants, could help some people make that realization before they walk in the door.
• balls187 11y ago
  They may forget what you said — but they will never forget how you made them feel. —Carl W. Buehner
• fixxer 11y ago
  I wonder how the community would evolve if commenting was simply turned off for a month? If karma could only be gained through up votes, you might see better submissions.
• istvan__ 11y ago
  I really like a presentation from Jeff Hackert in the subject: https://twitter.com/jchackert/status/330674979198861314 https://twitter.com/jchackert/status/330674979198861314
• spullara 11y ago
  Took a long time for me to learn this important lesson. You can be right and someone else be wrong and get the right outcome without hurting them.
• tptacek 11y ago
  Happy to be a data point: If you couldn't have guessed from my HN personality, this is me, as well. Different companies have had different ways of putting it; in the current incarnation, with Erin and Patrick, I'm called "Kanye", as in, "I'ma let you finish". Working on it!
  • joebeetee 11y ago
    I wouldn't have guessed that. I find your comments measured and thoughtful.
  • 0throwaway0 11y ago
    Don't change too much. Your comments are usually very critical and very technically correct, even if they might offend a project owner. Based on your HN personality, I know that you're a no-bullshit kind of guy, and that means that your company is at the top of my list for when I start looking for my next gig.
  • kabouseng 11y ago
    I agree with joebeetee, I don't perceive your comments as rude. For what it's worth, in the book "On assholes, a theory" the author states at some point, "How do I know if I am an asshole?". And the answer is that if you ask yourself this question, then very probably you aren't an asshole.
• drincruz 11y ago
  Great read. I was in a similar boat; reading Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" changed the way I interact with people a lot. Sasha Laundy's talk at PyCon 2015 is a great example of how to interact with other engineers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY14Er6JX2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY14Er6JX2s
• decisiveness 11y ago
  It's hard for me to say that being overly upset about someone else's argument winning over yours is not as significant a character flaw as sounding like a know it all. Should we be always singling out those born and developed with little empathy to appease those born and developed with high emotional sensitivity? It would serve both to put forth effort in improving their flaws.
• mucker 11y ago
  Baloney. What we have is a culture that has largely undermined the concept of constructive and well structured argument. One should read the exchanges between friendimies GK Chesterton and George Bernard Shaw. They respected each other and were friendly but if you read their output about each other they would be fired today. Why? We are pansies. We assume, wrongly, that argument about ideas and even light jabs at the person are tragic. They are not. Worse we have enshrined that into law in most places with "hostile work environments". Some ideas deserve to die and you only discover that through _vigorous_ debate. Do we have to be pricks about it? Probably not. Should we fire pricks that are often right? Absolutely not.
  • jasonwocky 11y ago
    > Some ideas deserve to die and you only discover that through _vigorous_ debate. Patently false.
    • oh_sigh 11y ago
      You should provide more insight. I understand that you disagree with the statement, but you aren't really doing anything to prove your point. Granted, the original poster didn't do much to prove their claim either.
      • jasonwocky 11y ago
        I thought it was obvious on its face that "vigorous debate" isn't the "only" way that bad ideas end up dying. In fact, plenty of bad ideas have come out of vigorous debate.
        • oh_sigh 11y ago
          The poster never said vigorous debate is the only way that bad ideas die. They said that vigorous debate is the only way that some bad ideas die.
  • ck425 11y ago
    That would work if people could disregard their feelings and considered only the logic of arguments. But that's not always possible, as much as we try feelings can't always be controlled (though learning to control them is definitely a worthy pursuit). By trying to be kind we're minimising the potential for feelings to get in the way of the logic. Sure it adds overhead but the advantage of this is that opinions and view that might otherwise not get expressed do. Also how many of those pricks that are often right actually are often right and how many are just so much of a prick no one wants to challenge them?
• mucker 11y ago
  Baloney. What we have is a culture that has largely undermined the concept of constructive and well structured argument. One should read the exchanges between friendimies GK Chesterton and George Bernard Shaw. They respected each other and were friendly but if you read their output about each other they would be fired today. Why? We are pansies. We assume, wrongly, that argument about ideas and even light jabs at the person are tragic. They are not. Worse we have enshrined that into law in most places with "hostile work environments". Some ideas deserve to die and you only discover that through _vigorous_ debate. Do we have to be pricks about it? Probably not. Should we fire pricks that are often right? Absolutely not.
• sova 11y ago
  tremendous. truly.
• nickbauman 11y ago
  We get so caught up in what is the "correct" answer. We forget software is made by humans and almost always meant to make human lives better (in some cases make life even possible). So it makes sense to put humanity ahead of the work. Otherwise, isn't this the grandest conflict of mission?
• jasonwocky 11y ago
  I dunno. I'm not a big fan of the "be kind" angle on things. Too often that translates to, "Withhold the feedback you have for fear that you'll upset the other person." Or, "Don't tell anyone that you think you have a better idea than the one someone else is championing." I generally think that people are "too kind" at work in a lot of ways, and it leads to a lot of grousing and internal stress on the part of the people who have to bite their lip rather than contribute to their fullest. Rather than "Be Kind", I prefer the duo of, "Be Honest, but Be Thoughtful First".
  • andrewstuart 11y ago
    >>Withhold the feedback you have for fear that you'll upset the other person. No, that is you failing to have a voice. The appropriate thing to say is, in a calm a non-emotional manner, "I've got something to say on this but the strength of your communication is leading me to feel I'm not allowed to speak. That's not healthy so lets communicate better.". It's passive aggressive behaviour to say nothing then snipe from covert position of resentment because you feel you have not been listened to. You can take responsibility and speak without fear of the other person. I once worked with a very senior software developer who controlled the outcomes of the technical conversations by getting annoyed and shouting down what the other people thought. As a result people were cowed and did not want to say anything for fear he would get even more annoyed. I eventually had enough of it and whenever it happened I said "I'm sorry but I'm not okay with things going the way you say through being overbearing. I have just as much experience and knowledge as you so my opinion is just as valid on this stuff. If you want it to be your way you'll have to get there a different way than just being overbearing." He kept doing it, I kept saying it calmly. Eventually he started to become aware that he isn't the smartest, just the most overbearing.
  • pekk 11y ago
    It would be useful if people carefully considered their real motivations for their feedback, and whether it was really all correct and relevant. Feedback which hasn't passed a strong internal filter for whether it is basically constructive, objective and well-informed isn't worth voicing and really should be withheld. So I like that you say "be thoughtful."
• morgante 11y ago
  This is a fantastic post and hits really close to home. I'm currently going through almost the exact same situation, where I'm effectively being demoted due to my general lack of kindness. It's also important to note that if boz is anything like me, he probably had to be almost fired for the lesson to go through. For most of my life, people have been telling me I need to be kinder (especially my parents), but I've never cared until now. It's certainly held me back socially, but never professionally. I never received a worse grade for being unkind. I never lost out on a job opportunity (being unkind is different from being an asshole). Until getting demoted, I never felt kindness was relevant to success. It stings, but I've finally realized that I need to act on this. I'm re-reading Dale Carnegie and am, more importantly, trying to deliberately consider the emotional impact of everything I say. (If anyone has advice or resources, I'm all ears.) ----- I probably should have posted this on a throwaway, but decided to be transparent. Please be kind.
  • athenot 11y ago
    I find it easier to be kind when I try to see things from the perspective of the other person. I quickly put myself in their position & try to understand what would be helpful and what would be counter-productive. Observing and listening to others goes a long way. That needy coworker that's annoying may be craving affirmation: smile when appropriate and avoid blaming their identity for their actions ("you failed" vs. "your stuff doesn't work"). Or that boss who's asking for stupid reports all the time may in fact be under intense pressure from above. While handling the pressure is technically his job, giving him some ammo to help reduce uncertainty helps reduce his headache. Most religions have codified kindness as "do to others what you want them to do to you". From a networking / interop perspective, it's "be strict in what you provide and lenient in what you accept".
    • morgante 11y ago
      > Most religions have codified kindness as "do to others what you want them to do to you". I actually think the Golden Rule is very ineffective. Personally, I'd prefer if everyone got quickly to the point with me and said things quickly and plainly. While this is great for many engineers, some other people prefer a lot more subtlety.
• stonogo 11y ago
  Having never heard of this person before, I've done about ten minutes of research into who he is and why (in the words of his own about page) I should care. I've come up empty. It seems like he's got enough money now that he feels like engaging in some verbal philanthropy. That's fine, but does anyone have any concrete reasons I should prioritize reading his output over others?
  • ck425 11y ago
    That his article has over a 1000 points on HN is probably a pretty good reason if you tend to enjoy reading HN.
  • cdosborn 11y ago
    Perhaps, just judge the content.
• bsder 11y ago
  Don't know boz, but would probably like him. Hopefully I will bump into him someday. Somehow, I seem to get along with all of these "raging assholes" that everybody complains about when I meet them. They tend to do interesting stuff, are interesting to talk to, and, generally, aren't attempting to do active harm to you because they're too busy doing stuff. Of course, if they accidentally do something that harms me or ticks me off, I WILL TELL THEM. Normally, they are the first to apologize and help fix the issue they caused. I only flip someone into the true asshole category when I tell them what they did to cause me grief, and they don't try to make amends somehow.
  • pellaeon 11y ago
    I've also been holding the same view as you since teenage, I believe the world operates by continuous contradictions and compromises or amendments. I expect myself to honestly directly pointing out the wrong of others, but also to proactively recognize and amend my own faults when others point out. From my own recent experience and Boz's article, I am forced to realize that not just all people operates this way, I should simply adjust. Though I still genuinely believe this is the most efficient way for people to grow and improve, because this way eliminates all the overhead of misinterpretations. I guess Boz's personality is close to "the debater" http://www.16personalities.com/entp-personality http://www.16personalities.com/entp-personality and so do you and I.
• ofir_geller 11y ago
  bug report: In the article search type in some non English chars like : "אאא". JavaScript exception then breaks the search for good, this must be the first search you make.
• aethertap 11y ago
  I had almost that exact conversation with my boss a few years back (except for the part about almost getting fired). I was completely stunned that people thought I was indifferent to their ideas and bent on finding flaws, because I had actually made an effort not to do that for quite a while before the conversation. It turns out that, at least for me, navigating through people's sensitivities while having a technical discussion and making sure the truth is discovered is extremely difficult. The effect it had on me was to basically make me clam up, because I decided that pointing out issues that would eventually crop up was not worth the risk of alienating my coworkers. It's hard for me to say whether this was a net positive or negative in terms of overall productivity, because if my shutting up makes the team more cohesive, I can see how finding the problems for themselves would grow their strengths over time. On the other hand, we often make decisions now that I would have questioned before in the process of talking it out (that includes my own decisions often enough because the whole discussion process is chilled). Ultimately, we seem to have a more congenial team (at least on the surface) at the price of having more bugfixes to deal with. Very unclear to me whether I did the right thing, but I can't really think of another way to handle it. Edit to add: The other big effect I noticed after learning to let stuff go was that I generally feel a lot less invested in the projects now. Before, I would treat every project I was on like it was my baby, and now I feel much more like I'm just working on somebody else's thing. That's not necessarily a bad thing (my phrasing is poor above, but I'm too tired to fix it at the moment), because it probably more accurately represents the real situation. The sense of detachment does tend to mean that I don't push as hard to go beyond expectations though.
• dools 11y ago
  I came to the realisation about a year ago that I was pathologically obsessed with being right about everything. I discussed this with a good friends who pointed me at this stuff about phases of adult development: http://www.slideshare.net/mobile/MargoBoster/how-being-an-expert-can-stall-your-career http://www.slideshare.net/mobile/MargoBoster/how-being-an-ex...
• 20andup 11y ago
  I am not sure I agree 100% with this. If both people are working on a really hard problem and the argument is based on theory, then yes, you should be kind. But if a colleague routinely creates more work for you and he thinks he is a competent programmer when not, then being kind will only further stroke his ego. I am literally facing this at work. One of my colleague has an opinion on everything. Its quite frustrating because he is neither the most experienced person in the topic nor is he any good. I literally caught him using an if else statement for check whether a dictionary contained a key when one line would have done. Its programming 101, pick up a book and you will learn it in chapter 3. But he goes on saying he has 5 years in this industry... I am like okay bro. How he got a job is beyond me. In the end, kindness is a tool in EQ. You should use it when needed and be stern when another approach calls for it. Hiding your dissatisfaction just to be kind will do the company long-term dis-service. Especially to the code base.
  • shockzzz 11y ago
    Oh, the engineerian contrarian. A legend as old as time itself.
    • 20andup 11y ago
      :)
• iamcreasy 11y ago
  I am an Engineering major(I have been programming since I was 13), and I have a bad habit of over-analyzing everything. I never skim over the details, and I always try to dig into a topic as much as I can to make sure my interpretations are correct. Because of this attitude, I can not enjoy fantasy novels. They ask me to bridge the gap between multiple paragraphs with insufficient information. But at the same time, I am really comfortable with technical writing; no matter how complicated they are. My girlfriend tells me I am mean to people, and I am not very kind. But it can't be furthest from the truth(from my perspective). I have never had any intention to hurt anyone. Gosh! I don't even hurt an ant. All she tells me is that I am `good person`. So I asked her to demonstrate me some of the variants of conversation where I don't come of as an unkind person. I thought with enough examples, I'd able to extract a pattern. She has been trying this for the last couple of years. But it's not working. I am yet to find a pattern, and unless I find a pattern I don't know what the anti-pattern will be. The best solution I've found thus far is to smile and remain silent. But that can't be the only solution. So my question to HN crowd, How do I learn to be kind?
  • mberning 11y ago
    Kill your ego. That is step one.
  • siscia 11y ago
    I guess we are in the same ship... I believe to just don't care much about detail, someone is saying something that is not completely true ? As long as the main point is correct no one care about little detail. No be pedantic... Try to emphasasis with whoever know a little less than you, do you remember the last time you learned lets say closure ? They were hard at first ? What does it even means to return a function ? Now you use closure everyday. Whenever somebody ask you about closure remember how you felt the first time you were learning it ? "function than return another function" is true, but it does not help anybody who is learning... Why ? What is the point ? How it is possible ? When they should be used ? Go deeper in your explanation, it will make you more a mentor than a simple asoles that know a lot of pointless thing but does not what to help anybody... Also, I made the same mistake over and over... When somebody tell me something I am used to register just what they told me. It looks like that people wrap any single word in a huge contest that I never consider... So it may happens that if I say something in the wrong tone, other people think: "Ohhh he consider himself so smart that he said that in that nasty way... For sure he think I am stupid" and I sound mean... But definitely is not what I want... Anyway, I still have lot to learn...
• kind_throwaway 11y ago
  I've heard this feedback from time-to-time - generally a very nice guy, but I strive to be rational, ego-less and results-oriented. "Be Kind", I couldn't agree more, but here are 3 nuances I've had trouble reconciling when applying this mindset, maybe you've had experience that could be helpful? 1. Stress & Results. Sometimes being kind can get in the way, and directly lead to a loss of results or respect from others. You wouldn't be kind to someone trying to convince you not to run out of a burning building. As the author says "when I'm under stress.." "Because a lot of his value, when you’re making giant decisions for huge amounts of money, is saying, ‘Why aren’t you f-ing considering this and this and this?’" - Ben Horowitz on his A16Z partner from "Tomorrow’s Advance Man" in The New Yorker. There are times when we weight effectiveness above feelings when we think about impacting others, so where's the right line? What if one person's stress threshold is higher than another's? What if one employee is less stressed because they just don't care about your company that much? 2. Passive Aggressiveness. "but more inhibited members of the team avoid any discussions with him". In an ideal growth culture, every member is giving open feedback in context, in real-time. For someone seeking the "truth", nothing is more unkind that passive aggressive behavior. imo, the CTO f-ed up here.. instead of pointing the finger at Boz, should have focused on creating an environment where the process for resolution is true candor and real-time feedback for team improvement. That letter arose from a process of gossip, rolling into back-room conversations, rolling into a secret, anonymous survey, which led to a HR meeting w/ Boz. A better process is to set expectations for interactions and behavior amongst the whole team. It is cool that the CTO found a way to give some direct feedback and spur Boz's own thinking, just not best process outcome for team. Everyone needs to know how to respect one another's feelings.. both the guy who is callous, and the guy who is sensitive. A manager responding to the passive aggressiveness of a sensitive team member is naturally going to sympathize more, but the squeaky wheel doesn't point to the root cause and is, in fact, rewarding unkindness. 3. "Kids Crying for No Reason" - google it. Is it kind to take pictures and laugh at kids crying? Have you ever been in a situation where you felt your co-workers emotions were perhaps unwarranted, unnecessary, or misapplied? Does your employer screen employees for the appropriateness of their emotional reactions in the kinds of situations you will interact with them? How can you take responsibility for how your actions affect others if you have a co-worker who is upset about the workplace equivalent of "I flushed my poop before I could look at it"?
• diminoten 11y ago
  Whoa, this hit way too close to home...
• zxxz 11y ago
  I don't agree with the author. Did that my first sentence above just hurt the feelings of the author or or many of the readers over here? Please read on. This kind of philosophies (be kind-hearted, be tolerant etc) are the ones making humanity loose their natural vigor and push people into unnatural soft-minded, lame and vulnerable population. These self-restricting rules makes you neutral and weak against someone who goes by natural and wild instincts. This is what is happening in the case of extremism of different kinds. The natural attitude always wins. Be yourself. Be natural. Don't let your supremacy go without gains. Don't impose restrictions on yourself, just to please others. Look at this. The author says that the other people didn't like him because the author was always right and winning without regard to the feelings of the people who lost the argument. But still those people complain about the winner and forces the winner to mend his ways, just by holding team work to ransom, instead of improving their own thinking. And the author and his boss asks us to give in such unfair play. Sometimes I feel most of the men in the developed world are feminized (weakened or neutralized) by their schooling and social restrictions. They are forced to present themselves always in a very pleasant form to others, instead of their natural form. Being social and well-mannered is taken to a little too far, and creating the lame populations all over world. Please, let the better thought win and prevail. Don't let it loose to the unfair demands by the weak minds who don't want to accept the legitimate supremacy of others.
  • eclipxe 11y ago
    I don't think anyone thinks disagreement should lead to hurt feelings. There's a difference between being right and KIND and being right and a total ass. We live in a civil world and as much as you promote "natural vigor" as an anthesis to kindness, there are ways to have vigor and drive while also being kind and respected. Difficult? Yes, but as a society we should aspire to do great things while also having a regard for the feelings of the other people we share this planet with.
    • zxxz 11y ago
      My point is, you should not be unjust to others. And you should not be unjust to yourself. But you need not pretend to appease others just because they expect it. This messes up the whole communication. You are hiding your real feelings. They loose opportunity to learn and grow up. Infact this is more serious in case where the communication is across different cultures. People can't read the unsaid stuff. As a scoiety, we should learn to not get offended easily, not depend on kindness from others, or beg for regard. That's the strong and ideal society. That makes it easy to achieve great things, because we are not burdened by the task of checking if it hurts anyone's feelings and to modify our work to make everyone happy. BTW, whether somneone is being ass or not, also depends on your own expectations and pampering. Think again, about the roots of necessity for pleasing everyone.
• zxxz 11y ago
  I don't agree with the author. Did that my first sentence above just hurt the feelings of the author or many of the readers over here? Please read on. This kind of philosophies (be kind-hearted, be tolerant etc) are the ones making humanity loose their natural vigor and push people into unnatural soft-minded, lame and vulnerable population. These self-restricting rules makes you neutral and weak against someone who goes by natural and wild instincts. This is what is happening in the case of extremism of different kinds. The natural attitude always wins. Be yourself. Be natural. Don't let your supremacy go without gains. Don't impose restrictions on yourself, just to please others. Look at this. The author says that the people who lost their argument complain about the winner and forces the winner to mend his ways, just by holding team work to ransom, instead of improving their own thinking. And the author and his boss asks us to give in to such unfair play. Sometimes It appears that most of the men in the developed world are feminized (weakened or neutralized) by their schooling and social restrictions. They are forced to present themselves always in a very pleasant form to others, instead of their natural form. Being social and well-mannered is taken to a little too far, and creating the lame populations all over world, begging for likes, karma, votes, recognition, appreciation and pampering. This is not how a strong society evolves. Stop being childish all through your life. Please, let the better thought win and prevail. Don't let it loose to the unfair demands by the weak minds who don't want to accept the legitimate supremacy of others. Be manly. Because that is natural. And finally, if you feel that the above is a little too harsh, you haven't grown out of your pampered childhood yet.
• gesman 11y ago
  >> I’m still not as good as I’d like to be at any of this... ... >> But believing deeply that I am responsible for how I make others feel ... ... Don't make a guilt trip out of this. You're cool, smart and capable. Go ahead and conquer higher heights. Pleasing others neither been a winning nor beneficial strategy for anyone.
• nashashmi 11y ago
  I am sorry I did not come across this submission sooner today. There are lots of opinions being passed around here, and all of those opinions are being framed from the point the OP focused on: kindness. I am not sure if kindness is the right remedy. In fact I don't know what the right remedy is. But my insight is a little different here. These past couple of years I have been slowly reading a book called "The Multiplier." It has been a very difficult read, mostly because every page of every chapter has been a slap in the face. I am constantly having regrets over the past. The book is related to management, and in essence, it says that intelligent people get miscarried by their intelligence. And then the book gives situations upon situations and examples upon examples of how intelligent people are terrible managers. The book also says that the best possible thing for a team is to remove its most obnoxiously intelligent person. Similar to when you remove a queen from a chess board, the weight of winning and accomplishing great things now equally rests on the shoulders of all players, positioning everybody for growth. And if you are still reading, some quotes: one guy makes you feel like he is the most intelligent person in the world; his rival makes you feel like you are the most intelligent person in the world. I started off reading the book to know how to multiply my skills across my team, but the book was about how to multiply people to do more than they've ever done before.
  • kabouseng 11y ago
    Hi this sounds like a really interesting book. Would you mind sharing the link to the book on Amazon, searching for the "the multiplier" gives three possible books you might be talking about :D. Thanks in advance.
    • ck425 11y ago
      I think this is the book he's referring to: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multipliers-Best-Leaders-Everyone-Smarter/dp/0061964395 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multipliers-Best-Leaders-Everyone-Sm...
      • nashashmi 11y ago
        Yup that is the one.
• mpoloton 11y ago
  It requires courage and wisdom to openly accept feedback and reflect on yourself instead of playing the blame game in situations like this.
• ridgeguy 11y ago
  OT, but I want to thank everyone for their comments. I've found them unusually thoughtful and challenging. Merci.
• hellbanTHIS 11y ago
  Maybe this is a low blow but if there's one place that needs a little less kindness and a lot more truth it's the Facebook News Feed. It's real nice that they only show you news they think you'll like but it seems pretty irresponsible. If they really want to make the world a better place they should come up with some way of spotting some of the verifiably false news stories that get posted there. They could do it nicely, maybe: "Hey did you know this story may contain many factual errors? Check it out on Snopes.com!" Facebook could even set up their own fact checking service if they wanted to, it would be good PR for them. And it's important to be nice but you have to be able to say "this sucks" sometimes too. With a guy like this Boz who's doing a good job but has a natural inclination to steamroll people maybe they should have set him up with some sturdier folks and let them fight it out instead of creating an atmosphere where he's afraid of being fired for being direct. That sounds like poor management, IMO.
  • shaneofalltrad 11y ago
    That is an interesting perspective; "have set him up with sturdier folks". Coming from a construction background myself, I find I need to work on my behavior, as engineers are much more sensitive than construction workers and actually anyone I have ever worked with, even sales people. I work with another guy, who was a previous auto-mechanic and we get along great. Might make sense to add a study as to personalities, dynamics of these teams and what personality combinations make for the most successful teams.
    • hellbanTHIS 11y ago
      Yeah programmers can be delicate. Maybe they used up all the sturdy folks they could find. "Dammit Boz that's the third dev you've broken this week! This time it's coming out of your salary!"
• nichochar 11y ago
  Funnily enough, his about page is entitled: "Who Are You and Why Should I Care?" Link: http://boz.com/about.html http://boz.com/about.html
• mdconner 11y ago
  Working at Facebook does not make you an authority on any of the things he's talking about...
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• diminoten2 11y ago
  Whoa, this hit too close to home...
• jackmaney 11y ago
  The older I get, the more amazed I am at how truly difficult it can be to be consistently kind.
• diminoten4 11y ago
  Whoa, this hit a little closer to home than I would have liked...
• fillskills 11y ago
  On of my co-founders advised me starting my first role as a CEO - "Listen." That one word changed how I perceive the world around me. Sidenote: this is one of the most beautiful sites I have ever seen
• PSeitz 11y ago
  Japan already does this (yes I mean the whole country)
• realrocker 11y ago
  Notice how it was OK for him to be mean while Facebook was growing up it's infrastructure. Being right unfortunately is a necessary evil for the first wave in any project. In the nascent stages a project often needs firm almost machine like guidance. As the project matures the sense of stability trickles down organically to it's members. Some make the transition well while others dont. Often the best of our champions don't make the cut. The author has rightly pointed out the importance of Kindness, but that's not enough. The leadership should also be kind and help these mean incumbents make the transition.
  • borski 11y ago
    I disagree. You can absolutely be a powerful leader with a powerful vision without being mean or being, for lack of a better term, an asshole. That doesn't mean you acquiesce or agree with everything everyone else says, it just means you lead by example and with a keen understanding of how what you say and do affects those around you, rather than ignoring that. It's similar to taking medication to treat the causes of an issue without being concerned with the side effects. It's totally cool if your headache goes away, but less cool if you then have seizures for 2 years. It's even worse if it makes those around you have seizures for 2 years, while your headache has gone away.
    • realrocker 11y ago
      I think being always right in this context means being less open to consensus and taking up more responsibility of execution. This could be very crucial in a fight or flight situation. Most of the time this is a very natural response to adverse situations. Like I said such a response has a very short shelf life. But being persistently in the same state long after the crunch time has passed is definitely not ok.
• duncanawoods 11y ago
  Has anyone tried Loving Kindness meditation? "Empty your mind" type of thing never did much for me but Loving Kindness meditation featured in New Scientist so I gave it a go out of curiosity. I found it remarkable. If you spend deliberate concentrated time imagining someone you know or might meet and them becoming happy, you later get a weird sense of joy when you do meet them. You anticipate and look forward to nice things happening to them and unconsciously strive to make that happen. What's fascinating is that it works with people you dislike/have trouble with. It really does foster empathy. Kindness when treated as just a behaviour will be an uphill struggle, there will be conflict between what you want to do versus a correction. However when your first instinct, your desire without thinking about it, is to be kind - its no bother.
• hit8run 11y ago
  I wonder how this could be news to someone? Usually you learn this at kindergarten.
• doctorstupid 11y ago
  And yet the opening paragraph of the about page is still fairly pretentious.
• igl 11y ago
  From my experience there are a few people in IT who can learn from this and start self-reflecting. They are NOT the majority but there are angry white sociopathic nerds. The monoculture is often criticized in the programming departments and being nice would be the first thing for diversity happen sooner.
• datashovel 11y ago
  There is such a fine line between "hearing" and "listening". In the same respect there is such a fine line between someone "being taught" something, and that same person "wanting to learn".
• ryan-allen 11y ago
  I don't necessarily think I'm 'that great engineer', but I sure could take this advice.
• borski 11y ago
  This is hard. It's something I struggle with because once you get the hang of it, it's actually pretty easy to convince other people to like you; it takes time to learn that too, but once you have the patterns down it's not that bad. What is infinitely harder is /actually/ respecting other people's opinions and beliefs, rather than simply making them think you are. These aren't the same thing, and are easy to confuse, in my experience. Be really careful, on your journey, to be watchful of that. I screwed that up and am still trying to figure out where the line lies.
• vamonopalmonte 11y ago
  whatevs this guy is called boz.
• vamonopalmonte 11y ago
  SHITLESS SHAIT
• pschastain 11y ago
  An excellent article. Unfortunately, you can't comment on it on the site without a Facebook account, and that I don't have.
• michaelvkpdx 11y ago
  Good post, but since learning how to be kind isn't on Google's list of things you need to know before becoming an engineer, it's not an important skill. Right, HN?
• morpheous 11y ago
  "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle". Something unfortunately, we all have to keep reminding ourselves off (Yes, I know it's difficult to remember that when dealing with a jerk!).
• ausjke 11y ago
  Well said. This is especially useful to some of the nice geek/nerds. I'm printing it out and put it on the wall for a while.
• vorg 11y ago
  But do you be kind to some of your coworkers all of the time, and all of your coworkers some of the time?
• pellaeon 11y ago
  It leaves me great ponder after reading the comments. After all, is "being kind" the general rule? Should it be a general rule? Or is it just an attitude towards certain kinds of personality (or the belief by people who have these personalities)? Recently read about the 16 personality types of psychology http://www.16personalities.com/personality-types http://www.16personalities.com/personality-types, I guess Boz is more of a "debater", like myself, who doesn't care much about the attitudes, instead we focus on the idea itself that is being conveyed, to fully understand it, and to dig out all implications and foundations. The article seems to encourage us to become more like the "diplomats", to understand people's feelings. Should I change? should we change? or should we just "be kind" to the sensitive people, and be ourself, ie. direct, honest but probably not kind, around other people? The doubt I have on being kind boils down to overhead, it leaves a huge hole to misinterpretations, and just as people say in the comments, sometimes people see your kindness as unimportance. For myself, I'd rather be offended then to be "protected by (mis)interpretations" of others on me. I hate to find out people specially crafting their speech in order to convince me. I am intelligent and mature enough to seperate the attitudes and the ideas of speech. Nevertheless, I do see the value of what's Boz suggesting, I guess being kind is maybe an overstatement, instead, being thoughtful is more conservative, and thus, a more general rule.
• thisisboz 11y ago
  I've been blown away by the thoughtfulness on this thread. For those who are interested, here is the first in a series of follow up posts about the same period of time in my life that gets into some of the very fair issues raised in this thread (namely, that Dustin really should have given me this feedback long before it got to the point of nearly getting fired) http://boz.com/articles/give-hard-feedback-fast.html http://boz.com/articles/give-hard-feedback-fast.html