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Samsung is imploding in China
- smegel 11y agoKoreans are also extremely image conscious and love parading around with prestigious international luxury brands - possibly even more so than the Chinese. They are also extremely proud of Korea as a nation and tend to favor Korean brands in everything other than luxury prestige goods. And Samsung is basically their national icon. So I imagine the average Korean must be quite in conflict when buying a smartphone - the recognized international symbol of smartphone prestige and luxury (the iPhone) vs the nationalistic Galaxy. But given their booming economy, I guess many just buy both...
- smil 11y agoSame as any nationality, ever.
- Zirro 11y agoCertainly not everywhere. In many nations people scoff at their local brands in favor of international ones, and people tend to buy what is popular and offers more features, regardless of where the company is based.
- wonderingwhere 11y ago> In many nations people scoff at their local brands maybe because it's shit and that people know they can't be lied to?
- collyw 11y agoI have certainly seen truth in this with regards to beer. I moved to Spain a few years ago, and was drinking San Miguel. Someone asked me, "Why are you drinking that crap?" "This is San Miguel, premium lager" "No its not, that's the crap struff" Its marketed as a Premium lager in the UK. Likewise in Mexico, Corona is the bog standard crap lager, yet it is sold as a moderately expensive lager in many other countries.
- smil 11y agoAnd Budweiser is sold as premium in Europe, Asia.
- collyw 11y agoNah, even we know it is shit.
- soylentcola 11y agoYeah, the "import" tag does seem to work that way. I guess the idea is that something worth importing from overseas must offer something you can't get for less at home. In reality, it's a great way to rebrand and market. When I studied abroad in Ireland back in the 90's, Guinness was generally as cheap as any other mainstream domestic beer (about £2 a pint at the local) while Budweiser was a more expensive import. Here in the states, Bud is your cheap, bog-standard beer...not a discount brand but nothing a "beer fan" would care about. And they brand Stella Artois and Carling as fancy import beer over here but everyone I know from Europe jokes that those are the sorts of beers you get when you just want to get drunk and get in fights. Then there's Fosters....do they even sell that in Australia? Not super popular over here in the US but it's still marketed as some sort of quality import while I've never met an Aussie who touches the stuff.
- smil 11y agoIt goes both ways. Swedes really liked Ericsson phones. They also really liked Nokia phones. Finns really liked Nokia phones. They also really like iPhones. Americans really like iPhones. They also really like Samsung Galaxies. Etc.
- smil 11y agoDownvoters, look up Dunning-Kruger.
- kijin 11y agoIt's not that simple. Many Koreans adore Samsung as a national icon, and it is indeed true that Samsung's electronics division alone accounts for a sizable percentage of Korea's GDP. But there are also a lot of Koreans who resent Samsung and go out of their way to avoid buying from them. The influence of chaebol [1] on the Korean economy and politics is a contentious topic, often split along ideological lines. In addition, the smartphone market in South Korea is extremely convoluted. Sticker prices are artificially inflated, and manufacturers, carriers, and retailers all throw around arbitrary discounts as a weapon to steal their competitors' customers. For a lot of people who just want a phone that works, the choice has less to do with the brand or the features, and more to do with whichever model happens to be the best deal at any given hour. Nobody praises anyone for buying a Galaxy or chastises anyone for buying an iPhone. And if you don't like either, you just buy LG. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol
- soylentcola 11y ago> Sticker prices are artificially inflated, and manufacturers, carriers, and retailers all throw around arbitrary discounts as a weapon to steal their competitors' customers. Sounds fairly similar to the state of the US market (minus the competing part). Devices marketed as "flagships" sell for $600-800+ but carriers use heavy discounts to get people to sign long service contracts. Lots of people would rather spend $200 up front and sign a 2-year contract for $90/mo than spend $400-500 up front with a SIM and $30-45/mo prepaid service. Since you're in a contract, you only really have to think about it every two years and at that point, most find it easier to just re-up, drop another $200, and get whatever the current must-have device is.
- kijin 11y agoIt's a bit different. Flagship models typically have an inflated sticker price in the $1000 range, and a long-term contract is only one component (and a rather insignificant one) of the overall discount. Manufacturers and retailers often add arbitrary discounts and rebates on top of it, so if you're really lucky, you can get a brand new flagship phone for free. But the next person will have to pay $700 for it, even with the same contract, while the store across the street sells it for $400 because they're getting a big rebate from the carrier this week. And most of the above are straightforward discounts and rebates, not something that is sneaked into the monthly plan like in the U.S. The price of the phone after the discount is divided by 24 or 30 and tacked onto the phone bill as a separate line item. You can pay it off anytime you want. The government is trying to regulate the industry into making the pricing structure more transparent to customers, but the general consensus is that the government is failing.
- na85 11y agoThe Samsung-branded Android is horrible, though. I really think Google's permissiveness in allowing vendors to bundle their crapware really kills any prestige the brand might have had. iOS really isn't anything special, but when compared to the literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones, it's hard not to make a favourable comparison in favour of Apple's operating system. I used to think Android had bad performance until I got my first Nexus-series device, at which point I realized that "Vanilla Android" is actually a pretty good OS. It's bothersome that seemingly nobody's out there making this point. Samsung's insistence on bundling crapware is killing Android.
- jon-wood 11y agoI'm always amazed at the crap that people put up with on Android phones. My Moto G is half as powerful as my wife's Samsung, and feels massively more responsive, and I don't have to put up with their god awful UI "enhancements".
- nkoren 11y agoThis. When my Galaxy S3 went for a swim, I "downgraded" to a first-generation Moto G. The lack of crapware and Samsung "enhancements" makes it a far better phone -- for less than half the price. Unless their OS philosophy changes, there's no way I'd buy Samsung again.
- WatchDog 11y ago> literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones Since when do Samsung literally put dogshit on their phones?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ghshephard 11y agoHe was commenting on the (mis)use of "literal", which, in the english language, has shifted it's meaning from "taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory" - to it's new (recent) sense which is used to "emphasize strongly this metaphor/allegory."
- wonderingwhere 11y agoYou've accurately stereotyped but no Korean I know would be in conflict...I mean for a minute I thought you were talking about North Korea.
- Caprinicus 11y agoNorth koreans prefer the iPhone because the logo resembles something edible
- fishgil 11y agoKorean here. I know you are generalising but there are a lot of Koreans who hate Samsung. They are above the law, the Lee family is like the aristocrats before the French revolution, wield monopolistic powers and are a big bully. Problem is, Koreans don't have a lot of choices when it comes to phones. You could either buy a Samsung phone, which are extremely cheap, have a big screen, nice colours and are overall good phones, or you could buy an LG which is seen to be inferior in every aspect. Then you have Apple and honestly, a lot of people do choose Apple but the price of a typical Samsung is so much cheaper. So I guess a lot of Koreans buy Samsung because they don't really have another choice. Re your comment about Koreans being image conscious and materialistic, I could not agree with you anymore. We are the most materialistic race on the planet probably. Not to mention proud. So it's like: fuck you Samsung but thanks for making Korean a little bit more relevant in the tech industry.
- soup10 11y agoSamsung makes a lot of the components for the iPhone and other smartphones. Even if their branded devices crater, they'll be fine.
- threeseed 11y agoApple routinely bounces back and forth between suppliers. I would imagine Samsung would much prefer the guaranteed income into their components division from Samsung phone sales rather than intermittent incomes from Apple.
- dhfromkorea 11y agoOne more Korean here. "fuck you Samsung but thanks for making Korean a little bit more relevant in the tech industry."\n -> I would have concurred 3-5 years ago, but I disagree now. I think now Samsung is the bottleneck which functions as an engineer hog and nefariously undermines their productivity/potential. Take Tizen. An Army of 1,000+ developers have been working on it for years. What do they have now? I am living in Finland which used to be the country of Nokia and the country is rebuilding itself post-Nokia. South Korea can do the same "without Samsung".
- josteink 11y ago> So I imagine the average Korean must be quite in conflict when buying a smartphone - the recognized international symbol of smartphone prestige and luxury (the iPhone) vs the nationalistic Galaxy. I think you mean the one flavour of international symbol of smartphone prestige (Samsung Galaxy) vs another flavour of international symbol of smartphone prestige (iPhone). Outside silicon valley, Android is actually quite well perceived and you're not looked at as an hobo or weirdo for using anything not an iPhone. It may be hard to believe, but try to think differently every once in a while ;)
- scalayer 11y agoless than scientific surveyor here: I was all over Korea for a month last Summer and it definitely seemed that Samsung/LG phones were 90% of what I saw. Especially on the metro in Seoul. The few iPhones I saw were all older models. If you have something like an LG G3 and above, you can get LTE Advance speeds in Seoul which is quite astounding to experience. 300mbit on your phone!
- 72deluxe 11y agoDo they have sufficient storage on them to store all that data they're downloading? I notice that Apple is still offering 16GB devices which I can only imagine will be full within nanoseconds given LTE Advance speeds (although they probably don't sell the GSM model with 16GB, right?). Do Android devices still come in 16GB models over there? I am always saddened to see such small storage on devices. EDIT: Someone's on a downvote party for my comments today I think.
- bane 11y agoMost Koreans are interested in streaming services, not downloading. Streaming video, Podcasts, movies etc. On top of that the system works underground in the subway and on top of that there's digital tv everywhere also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcasting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcastin... Many phones in Korea support DMB (and it also works on the subway).
- 72deluxe 11y agoThanks, very informative.
- bane 11y agoMost Koreans have a love/hate relationship with Samsung. The family that runs it is generally not thought well of, but it's so pervasive a company that it's virtually impossible to avoid. The electronics division alone is larger than Apple, and you can almost go cradle to grave living in, wearing, driving, eating Samsung products made by their other sizable divisions. And your life insurance might also be from Samsung, so when you die, your funeral costs are covered.
- seunosewa 11y agoIn what sense is the Samsung Electronics division larger than Apple?
- yongjik 11y agoI'll just clarify one misconception: it's not really the case that iPhone is considered an international symbol of prestige and luxury. While they are expensive, they aren't that expensive, compared to Samsung phones. Anyone who can afford a top-line Samsung phone can easily afford an iPhone. In addition, South Korea's dreadful web ecosystem (you can't buy anything using Mac OS) has the effect of substantially reducing the appeal of Apple products. IMHO, using Apple products in Korea is more viewed as being "that weird guy who is being different just for the sake of being different" rather than having an "international symbol of prestige," whatever that means. (Of course both are exaggeration: people don't really care that much what kind phone you use.) Also there's the matter of Apple's customer service: for some reason they have a reputation of being absolutely horrible in Korea, which leads to fewer sales, which again makes Apple think it's not worth the trouble to set up decent customer service in Korea... * About Samsung being Korea's national icon.... haha serves me right for not fighting hard enough to throw its leaders into jail, I guess.
- devonkim 11y agoSamsung and LG are both chaebols and it's not like Hyundai will step up to the plate and challenge either of those two. And as another Korean, have to agree on how superficial Koreans can be. It just never made any sense how conformity and outward displays of success became so important culturally. It's tough for me to ever associate with other Koreans given these are literally the opposite of my own personal values, but I always have to wonder what some of the advantages or insights such a culture might have that I'm missing. Doesn't matter how much Korean I speak or read or even write... I just can't get it to gel with me. It's like reading the Bible for me and an atheist.
- brazzy 11y ago> This explosive growth — at Samsung's expense — is due to the breakout success of the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus. The larger size of the smartphone made it far more appealing, especially in Asian markets, and helped Apple generate the most profitable quarter of any company ever. Uhhh... Because Samsung doesn't have any phablets or 5 inch phones??? that explanation is so lame it makes the whole article look sketchy.
- saurik 11y agoI think the argument is that people were only willing to use the Android device because it had the large screen they wanted: as soon as Apple entered that corner of the market, so now, "with a large-screened iOS device available, consumers have turned away in huge numbers from high-end Android manufacturers like Samsung, with devastating results".
- geomark 11y agoI observed a bit of that effect here in Thailand. Apple is considered more prestigious by many Thais who are willing to spend a month's pay to buy an iphone. But many were quick to convert to Samsung when larger screens came out - the little iphone looked like a toy next to the big screen Samsungs so they handed down their little iPhones to younger siblings. Apple seemed silly to insist that people didn't want bigger screens. Now that they finally caved to the demand they are clawing back some market share from Samsung. And the Xiaomi Mi4 is coming to Thailand soon so Samsung is going to take another hit.
- xnull2guest 11y agoDoes anyone have an inside scoop as to whether there are political causes, given the rising tension between China and South Korea?
- notatoad 11y agoIt seems like the explanation is pretty simple - Samsung's competitors are delivering an extremely similar product for half the price. As these Chinese OEMs expand into other markets, Samsung is going to see this same trend happen worldwide. Apple takes the high-end, image-conscious market segment, and huawei and xaomi take the low end, and there isn't a whole lot of room for a high-price low-prestige product.
- xnull2guest 11y agoOkay, good to know it's just normal market dynamics. Thanks.
- mimighost 11y agoChina and South Korea are actually in their best relationship because of Japan's Abe government. I don't like the conspiracy theory behind it. Apparently, China and US are not getting along recently on a list of issues, like Russia and Internet dispute, while at the same time, Apple has reached its peak in terms of popularity in this market. Galaxy S5/Note 4 is a universal flop for Samsung in various of markets, in China, it faces even stronger competition from local players like Xiaomi and Huawei, whose products are cheaper and comparable in feature. Just that simple.
- dhfromkorea 11y agoChina and South Korea are actually in their best relationship because of Japan's Abe government => this statement is getting to be less true. Recently Xi Jinping met with Abe which came as a direct hit on the apologize-or-no-meeting hard line of the South Korean government. South Korea is budging to mend the diplomatic fences with Japan, lean back to the United States, and steps back from China a bit. The general perception here is that South Korea is not ready to go all-in for China.
- sureshv 11y agoI'm intrigued by the 42%+ marked as 'Other'?
- cubancigar11 11y agoThat would be Xiaomi and other local chinese brands.
- getsat 11y agoProbably also HTC and other "also ran" companies.
- anthony_romeo 11y agoActually, Xiaomi is on that list at #2, behind apple. There are several other local brands though.
- danmaz74 11y agoSo much for all those who said that Android is "only Samsung". In China there is an explosion of local brands which sell Android, and they're eroding Samsung in a still booming market. That's the fact.
- digi_owl 11y agoBasically Samsung is getting eaten from the bottom much like they did to Nokia a decade ago.
- adventured 11y agoEffectively the same thing Samsung did to Sony.
- megablast 11y agoWhen people said it, it was true. Even now Samsung make the majority of money in the Android world.
- danmaz74 11y agoYes, but the argument IIRC was that Samsung had attained an unassailable position, so Android being open wasn't really making any difference. Instead, in the latest ads that came to my mailbox (snail mail in Italy), I was struck by the fact that most of the advertised phones were from Chinese brands I had never heard of before...
- __Joker 11y agoSo much for the small hand of Asians making it difficult to work with bigger device argument, if we agree with this article's assumption that bigger iphone model has been appealing to Chinese market.
- diminish 11y agoI also read 3.5" iPhone was the perfect size ergonomic for Asian hands but Apple gave up years of ergonomic study in favor of larger screens if earlier some people were right. The true victim of phablets will be iPad and tablets IMHO.
- soup10 11y agoI think the iphone 6+ is about the size limit for fitting into pockets and holding it to your ear and taking pictures non awkwardly. Theyll need to figure out a way to physically expand and compact the screen to make a true universal device.
- bane 11y ago> but Apple gave up years of ergonomic study in favor of larger screens if earlier some people were right. It turns out Apple was optimizing for the wrong ergonomics. People want it to be more comfortable to see the screen, not use one hand. Huge phone have been the norm in Asia for years before they showed up in the West. The largest models available today still aren't available in the U.S.
- FooBarWidget 11y agoYou can just use both hands to work with a device. My (Chinese) parents prefer large screens because they have bad eyes.
- SCdF 11y agoApple taking 93% of all the profits in the smartphone industry is terrifying.
- castell 11y agoSamsung smartphone/tablet hardware is fine, but their Android "support" is a joke. No Android updates after a few weeks. Samsung still sells some Android 2.3.x and 4.1.x devices and most of their devices never received the 2.3->4 and 4->5 update. Some of their flagship devices are also a bit overpriced. They used to offer a replaceable battery and an SD-card slot, but its gone in their latest flagship S6 Edge as well. Many early Samsung smartphone/tablet customers turn away after their experiences. LG, HTC, Sony, Lenovo and many little known Chinese products are cheaper and usually better nowadays. Samsung TVs already use Bada/Tizen OS, and Samsung announced that their S5 flagship phone would be released also with Tizen. The question is why Samsung hasn't switched to Tizen yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada
- notwhereyouare 11y agoI just got my 5.0.1 update for Verizon Samsung S4. 5.0 has been out for how long, I'm thankful I didn't get the original included memory leak
- Nicholas_C 11y agoI believe I received it for my S4 (AT&T) about 3 weeks ago, and it's having trouble installing for whatever reason. I'm pretty peeved it took so long to get it and will probably switch back to Apple the next go around.
- felipeerias 11y ago> The question is why Samsung hasn't switched to Tizen yet? This might be one of the reasons: http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/enlightened/8795 http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/enlightened/8795
- pja 11y ago(hits Wikipedia) ... “The Enlightenment Foundation Libraries (EFL) are a set of free and open source graphics libraries that grew out of the development of the Enlightenment window manager” “...And did I mention EFL is the basis of all applications on Tizen?” Oh dear.
- ams6110 11y agoIn Apple's most recent earnings call, CEO Tim Cook used the term "switchers" five times (a record!), and indicated that Apple is targeting further down the market — into traditional Android territory — than it ever has before. Interesting, as this is something that is new to Apple. They've always been content to live at the top end of the market, selling quality (but expensive and high-margin) hardware. Are they risking their position as a status symbol of sorts? Once I'm no longer making a fashion statement by owning an iPhone, why would I pay a premium for one?
- adevine 11y agoFor most places in the US at least, given the ubiquity of the iPhone, I think the days of it being considered exclusive are long gone. If you want to make a fashion statement, there's always the 17k Apple Watch.
- rayiner 11y agoAt least in the U.S. an iPhone is a "status symbol" in the same way as Olive Garden is "fine dining." It's marketed as the premium option, but still priced such that most people can afford it.
- jpalomaki 11y agoAt least some of the german car makers have been able to keep the cake and eat it. It seems to be that the cheaper entry level models which many are not offering haven't destroyed the brand. Maybe the secret has been to make those cheap models distinct enough from the more expensive ones.
- sooheon 11y agoThis made me snort. Apparently other non-fashion based reasons are incomprehensible to straw men.
- anthony_romeo 11y agoInteresting. When I visited China last year, Samsung was the brand of phone I saw most often (which was apparently true given the data in this article). Yet when your competitors offer phones nearly as reliable and feature-full at half the price, it's no surprise there's a shift happening. Though the increase in Apple suggests that this is not only a concern of price (the price of high-end Samsung phones were comparable to the price of iPhones). Maybe it's a matter of Samsung products being somewhere in the middle. Apple's phones feel like they have better construction, and a greater level of prestige associated with them. Xiaomi's phones, again, have a solid construction and decent features (in some instances, more features) at a vastly lower price point than Samsung's phones. Maybe Samsung's phones right now don't satisfy the wants of either camp, and are hurting now as a result? Edit: Not to mention Apple finally competing on phone size.
- userbinator 11y agoWhen I visited China last year, Samsung was the brand of phone I saw most often I bet most of those were not real Samsungs, but generic clones with the Samsung name on them.
- inimino 11y agoDo you have a source for this, or are you just guessing? Samsung phones are popular in China from the mid-market to the high end, and I've never seen or heard of a fake Samsung. (Fake iPhones, yes.)
- userbinator 11y agoI've seen plenty of fake Samsung phones... the majority of them come out of the factory as unbranded generic Androids based on the MTK platform and look just like the Galaxy series; the vendor will ask if you want the Samsung logo on it (at no extra cost) when you buy one, and apply it then.
- inimino 11y ago
- codyZ 11y agoI slowly saw all of my Samsung-fan co-workers/partners transition to iPhones or atleast other Androids during my 2 year stay in Beijing. Ancedotal evidence at best but the quality of their phones and the software was subpar. I've had my Galaxy S2 for four years and only had to replace it last week. But their Samsung phones seemed extremely glitchy, would freeze at the most inappropriate times and have random battery issues.