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Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum
- nthitz 12y agoMore details from gwerm here http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/30tudk/psa_5_reddit_accounts_subpoenaed_by_ice/ http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/30tudk/psa_5...
- NhanH 12y agoIs that the same gwern with the blogs that showed up on HN from time to time?
- zethraeus 12y agoyes
- gwern 12y agoYes.
- nickysielicki 12y agogwern, you're the man.
- atmosx 12y agoThe reply was kinda spooky and epic :-) Good luck with everything.
- nickysielicki 12y agoWe (speaking as a netizen) need Usenet 2.0; eg: something that can fulfill the role of reddit that is decentralized/distributed. Perhaps reddit can even transition into being a reader (a la google reader) for people that don't want to set up their own node. I'm not saying that drug discussion is the quintessential act that deserves to be protected, but I am worried that the government has such an easy avenue to get this information. What happens when it's something far more political? What happens when they serve a gag order alongside their subpoena? What happens when the people talking aren't technically inclined, and don't use Tor? (By the way, I would bet these people were using Tor and this subpoena is useless.)
- maxerickson 12y agoThe way one of them vaporized their reddit presence (from what I could tell from a few minutes looking at the time), they didn't feel very safe about the information they may have leaked.
- dogecoinbase 12y ago(By the way, I would bet these people were using Tor and this subpoena is useless.) Based on how poor the opsec of previous darknet admins has been, I see no reason to assume theirs was any better.
- atmosx 12y agoYou can't register via Tor on HN. I wonder if you can do that on reddit. Then there's always the email account thing, but if you were careful from day one, you could get away with it. Hosting AMAs is both stupid and provocative IMHO when you're a drug dealer.
- ethbro 12y ago> Hosting AMAs is both stupid and provocative IMHO when you're a drug dealer. Unless your endgame, as would seem entirely reasonable as a logical illicit dealer, is pump sales and dump the entire business as quickly as possible. In which case the additional attention and growth might offset the additional risk over short time horizons.
- Leynos 12y agoReddit doesn't require an email address to create an account.
- mmcru 12y agoi agree. recently i desired to create an online community for a small game that probably wouldn't have many users or posts. subreddits are fantastic for that type of thing, and i like the ease of use and PRAW, however, handing over all of the community's data to conde nast isn't something i'm interested in. what i'd like is a tool with which to create online communities, which would consist of a message board with upvotes/downvotes, user profiles, and perhaps a small chat system, with good mobile integration. as you said, it should be decentralized. it should also be as secure as possible without requiring non-standard software like TOR.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- jjulius 12y agoOne would assume that the users of deep web-related subreddits would take just as many precautions to protect their privacy when using Reddit as they do when on the deep web. Just because you don't actually conduct illegal activity via Reddit doesn't mean that it's impossible for someone to connect the dots to your deep web forum account(s) with enough effort. If people turned out to truly be that foolish then I will have little, if any, sympathy for them.
- dublinben 12y ago>One would assume One would be quite foolish to assume strong OpSec from drug seekers and their enablers. We've seen case after case resulting from these busts with absolutely trivial investigations necessary to locate the defendants.
- cwkoss 12y agoNot a /r/DarkNetMarket customer, but I read it to keep the pulse on that section of the Bitcoin economy. You're very right. Every few months someone posts a "tails is overkill, here's my (misconfigured insecure) mobile TOR setup that is just as good". I'd wager many darknetmarkets customers aren't keeping tor properly up to date either.
- dublinben 12y agoSecurity is hard and not fun. Especially when you're high.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y agoAnd you need only slip up once. If you were sloppy at the start and straightened up later, too bad, the feds know who you are now.
- vonklaus 12y agoRight, you are certainly correct about security, I personally pay it pretty loose. As a consumer, I assume that it is possible (and even probable) i am being monitored at some points. However, the people who have the level of technology to do the monitoring are probably not the people who make arrests for $30 of narcotics.
- dmschulman 12y agoWow, Gwern from gwern.net is implicated in this. No idea he moderates that subreddit. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out considering Gwern has a few essays on self-experimentation with drugs and discloses they were purchased from Darknet vendors. Despite the articles pertaining to illicit substances the experiments in question were exceedingly academic (like much of Gwern's writings).
- jrockway 12y agoThe feds don't have that good of a case against Gwern, if they even wanted to prosecute him for simple possession. He could be writing fiction, for all they know; to convict him in court, they'd have to prove that he possesses illegal substances, which he has presumably consumed by now. I'm not a lawyer but I don't foresee much prison time in Gwern's future. There are bigger fish to fry.
- rudolf0 12y agoI suspect they were just interested in interrogating Gwern for what he knew about some of the market operators and various schemes related to them. It's possible they might've planned to use some of his drug purchases and position in the community as leverage to get him to talk, but I strongly doubt they're interested in prosecuting him.
- ianstallings 12y agoWarning: this opinion probably won't fit into the HN zeitgeist. If you commit a crime online don't be surprised when they seek to gain evidence against you. This isn't a liberty issue. This is a you're probably a criminal issue and law enforcement is coming after you. I don't protect drug dealers in my neighborhood because of their right to free speech and personal liberty so why would I protect these guys? It just always makes me chuckle when criminals won't face the fact that they are criminals. They'll deflect, ignore, and basically try anything to escape the reality - they broke the rules of society and now society wants to punish them. And just to give you a little background - I've done some time in a few bids for violence and drugs. I know what it means to be a criminal because I grew up as one. I have no pity. None. You should've made better decisions. I made a choice to leave that behind a long time ago, and you should too.
- betenoire 12y agoPlease have a little pity, you never know. But that's beside the point of this article I guess.
- jqm 12y ago"violence and drugs" One of these things is not like the other.
- guelo 12y agoThe reason I know you're lying is that anybody that I have met that has done any time says they wouldn't wish it on their worse enemy.
- ianstallings 12y agoI had a whole response here but I took it out. I'll put it this way - you don't know what you're talking about and my name is right there in my nick. Do some investigation then return and tell me I'm lying.
- guelo 12y agoOK tough guy. Maybe you just have a lot less empathy than the average criminal.
- jamisteven 12y agoNot sure how willing they will be to hand this over given the recent events surrounding A/Swartz' suicide.
- gwern 12y agoThey don't have any choice in the matter.
- robbyoconnor 12y agough.
- stefantalpalaru 12y agoIf you're having problems using Reddit through Tor, use HTTPS. Better yet, force the HTTPS redirections in the Reddit settings. This info is, of course, redundant or too late for the people talking about illegal activities on that particular subreddit, but it might come in handy for when they come searching for you.
- nl 12y agoNot sure why you are giving this advice. HTTPS won't do anything to stop a subpoena for IP information(?)
- MichaelGG 12y agoI believe he's saying that accessing Reddit using Tor with HTTP is sometimes problematic but using HTTPS can fix the problems. (It's been a while but I think that might mirror my own experience.)
- stefantalpalaru 12y agoThat's correct. Last time I tried it, Reddit was borking HTTP POST requests made through Tor. Now they seem to redirect everybody to HTTPS after login and the problem is solved.
- paganel 12y agoFrom NSWGreat's AMA linked in the article: > The Darknet is amazing, its changing the drug scene for the better. Its taking away the violence and the dangers that are inherit with buying drugs. Never thought about it this way, but as everyone is talking and writing endlessly about how taxi rides will be revolutionized by billion-dollar Silicon Valley start-ups I found this insight about the drug-market fascinating. Online selling of drugs probably means less deaths of young (mostly black) people fighting for "street corners" and also less people killed by the Mexican cartels.
- mattdotc 12y ago>Never thought about it this way I'm trying to be better about reading too much into a single comment, but I think this means that you either have a long-held belief on the 'war on drugs' (one way or the other) or that you've simply never given it any thought as it may be a matter which you may feel does not concern you (it actually affects almost everybody). In either case, here are a few materials that you might find interesting. Milton Friedman on the 'War on Drugs' (1 of 3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyystXOfDqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyystXOfDqo Noam Chomsky on the 'War on Drugs': http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199804--.htm http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199804--.htm To be honest, it's been a while since I've read/watched either of the above, and there might be a good amount of overlap between them.
- adventured 12y agoAlong with keeping prostitutes and their customers safer: http://www.wired.com/2015/02/redbook/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/redbook/ The Internet will always try to route around any roadblocks and form more efficient markets. Governments have to aggressive act to stop it from happening.
- hkmurakami 12y agoSimilar things have been said about Redbook, which was the prostitution equivalent. Discussing and "vetting" of customers allowed the (mostly) women to protect themselves better compared to soliciting "business" on street corners.
- FireBeyond 12y ago
- downandout 12y agoI actually predicted that this would happen [1]. That particular Evolution thread had a ton of very incriminating statements in it. This shouldn't be surprising; don't post in public forums talking about your highly illegal activities. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9229342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9229342
- NegatioN 12y agoI concede. :) I'm surprised so few are being targeted, now that they actually do something about it.
- downandout 12y agoI was actually surprised by the low number as well.
- gwern 12y agoThis is just what we know of, because I'm involved. As far as I know, none of the other 4 accounts have talked publicly about the subpoena, so that suggests most people keep quiet about such things.
- jacquesm 12y agoAny idea on Conde Nast's response to all this? If they were looking for an excuse to shutdown DNM then this would be it.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- NegativeK 12y agoReddit is a part of the parent company of Conde Nast; they've been siblings for a while.
- lurkinggrue 12y agoI hope they were going though two vpn's running in a virual machine.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- siddboots 12y agoOff topic, but is there a name for the fad of having side-pane elements perpetually zoom and fade in and out as I read a blog post? Is there a reason for it?
- anonbanker 12y agoif you don't assume that Reddit is under pervasive surveillance, you are making a huge mistake. you should probably assume the same of HN, or most things that don't live on I2P or Freenet.