14 ms·

Periscope by Twitter

224 points by knowbody 12y ago

knowbody 12y ago
In my opinion what Meerkat did wrong was not making relationship with Twitter. The reason why they got blocked are simple: - v1 of Meerkat was posting on user's behalf without permission, auto-follow @Meerkat on sign-up, sending Twitter notifications without permission. - user's social graph cannot be ported to the 3rd party apps - recreating commenting network using Twitter's API This is why I am not surprised Twitter blocked them. They say: "you don't shit, where you eat".
- smackfu 12y ago
  If Twitter already bought a competitor, why would they make a relationship with Meerkat?
  - minimaxir 12y ago
    Twitter bought Periscope after Meerkat got press, although it may not have been a cause-and-effect relationship. (M&As take time.) EDIT: See joeblau's comment below.
    - joeblau 12y ago
      I think Twitter bought Periscope (In January Sometime) before Meerkat launched (Early March), but Twitter didn't disclose the acquisition until after Meerkat launched (Mid March). http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/09/twitter-reportedly-buys-streaming-video-app-periscope/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/09/twitter-reportedly-buys-st...
- mbesto 12y ago
  Meerkat is doing just alright the $21M in their bank (despite being blocked).
  - knowbody 12y ago
    I'm happy for them. Don't get me wrong, I love meerkat, it's a great app. Periscope looks like a one night hack for me. My point is that their entire app relies entirely on Twitter.
    - testingonprod 12y ago
      To me, Meerkat is the one that looks like a one night hack...
- Y_Not 12y ago
  Sounds a lot like this blog post: www.twizoo.com/meerkat Also picked up by Business Insider: http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-meerkat-saga-shows-the-danger-of-bas-2015-3 http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-meerkat-saga-shows-the-dan... But yes, agreed. Don't shit where you eat.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ryandvm 12y ago
It's weird how these app fads go. I used to work for a company in Charleston, SC that has been doing live streaming for almost a year now (http://stre.am/ http://stre.am/). They got some press out of SXSW, but without a voice in the Si Valley echo chamber, I suspect they're going to get crowded out.
- iMark 12y ago
  I think live video streaming for mobile is going to be far more than a fad. I believe we're very close to a tipping point, where all will take is a single high profile case (imagine someone live streaming an instance of police brutality for example) for the technology to reach a mass audience.
  - ihuman 12y ago
    > someone live streaming an instance of police brutality Hasn't that been done for many instances already? People have been live streaming from Ferguson, Egypt, etc.
    - BYWallace 12y ago
      These new apps are bringing a much more streamlined, accessible method for anyone with a smartphone. People in Ferguson or Egypt likely had a more complex set-up or were posting pre-recorded footage.
      - djhunt 12y ago
        Maybe only more complex in that they cost $ to livestream, but I could sit in front of my Roku and watch multiple live streams of Ferguson protests on UStream.
  - untog 12y ago
    imagine someone live streaming an instance of police brutality for example) What's the case for the "live" part, though? If you imagined everyone at a Ferguson protest live streaming their experience it would be utterly overwhelming. Much better instead for people to edit the sections that are actually interesting and post them to YouTube/LiveLeak/whatever. I don't see how livestreaming adds much.
aikah 12y ago
Didn't they just shut down a service that did the same by blocking their twitter api access or am I mixing stuff up ?
- tartuffe78 12y ago
  Yea, Meerkat was shut down for spammy practices apparently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207271
  - minimaxir 12y ago
    The app wasn't shut down, but one feature (auto-follow) was cut off. Periscope does not use this feature either. All the other spammy app practices remain.
whistlerbrk 12y ago
I don't like the message Twitter sends with the semi-walled garden. Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but this to me says "develop on our platform and if you come up with a good idea and we like what you do we'll just do it ourselves"
- nothrabannosir 12y ago
  Not saying that's never true, but in this specific case there's just no way Twitter went from zero to release with this app since meerkat launched. A company the size of Twitter doesn't do weekend hackathons for important launches like this. Not that I know of, at least. Add to that the obviousness of this app, and bayesian chances are pretty high they just came up with it concurrently but were later with the release. EDIT: It also explains why Twitter went so draconian on Meerkat. EDIT2: But I'd have to add: yeah, Twitter's behavior is chilling. The way they cracked down on Meerkat, and now just try to play this launch off as if nothing happened, it's disingenuous. Just come out and say it, Twitter: you used your technically justified power over Meerkat to gain competitive advantage. EDIT3: A friend tells me they didn't develop this app, they just bought it. Makes even more sense.
  - talkingquickly 12y ago
    Yep they purchased Periscope earlier this month. http://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-acquires-live-video-streaming-startup-periscope-1425938498> http://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-acquires-live-video-stre...
  - minimaxir 12y ago
    > Not saying that's never true, but in this specific case there's just no way Twitter went from zero to release with this app since meerkat launched. A company the size of Twitter doesn't do weekend hackathons for important launches like this. Not that I know of, at least. Periscope had been in a closed beta for months before they were purchased. I'm surprised no media has ever tried the angle of Meerkat being a Periscope clone. http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/26/abre-los-ojos/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/26/abre-los-ojos/
  - 12y ago
austenallred 12y ago
I have this strange sense of aversion to Periscope, even though I know it's not logical. It feels to me like Meerkat was a cool thing built by a bunch of my friends that took off, and then the big blood-sucking corporation (Twitter) tried to rip it off and make some money (even though that's not accurate). That probably stems from this conversation between Ben (the co-founder of Meerkat), and someone who was building something similar: http://austenallred.com/assets/ph-ben.png http://austenallred.com/assets/ph-ben.png > Pete: "I was working on the exact same app... kind of depressed right now. :(" > Ben: "PETE! What makes you think you're not capable of doing something better/different? It would be a very sad world if people just gave up on ideas. I can tell you that the live video space is still broken in terms of the distribution mechanism, and that obviously Meerkat is not perfect. There's a very good chance that anyone in the world could come up with a better product/perspective. Please, go back to code. That's how we'll all build things better together, even though we'll all work separately - we learn from each other." How can you not fall in love with that product/company?
- minimaxir 12y ago
  > How can you not fall in love with that product/company? For several reasons, mostly for destroying my Twitter feed in the name of "growth hacking." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9208429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9208429
  - dataker 12y ago
    Can you blame them? One way or the other, it was probably one of the only strategies available and ended up being successful. Unlike larger companies, they had to solve the chicken-and-egg problem to distribute the product.
    - encoderer 12y ago
      I'm of a mixed mind on this, but I will add clarity here: you are definitely condoning spam in the name of 'doing whatever it takes'.
noer 12y ago
Compared to Meercat, there's a better UI, more ways to explore users to find new content and not as much of a blank slate for new users. After using each less than 5 times, I sort of prefer periscope.
- kashjawed 12y ago
  most of the users I know who tried both apps agree that Periscope has far better UI. Meerkat has been crashing on my iPhone so I've given up on it.
hodgesmr 12y ago
Think about why, in a world with LiveStream, UStream, & YouTube Live Events, people see Meerkat as revolutionary. Also apply that question to Spotify vs Rhapsody.
- azinman2 12y ago
  Perhaps initial traction/buzz just nets bigger with the "right" initial users. There's also execution details as well in the product itself. But great q... maybe they just had the timing wrong?
- taozhuo 12y ago
  Because they take more than a few tap/clicks.
lawry 12y ago
Remember even if you mute your microphone, it's still possible to extract audio from the video you are streaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKXOucXB4a8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKXOucXB4a8
- rkuykendall-com 12y ago
  > it's still possible to extract audio from the video you are streaming, if you are perfectly still, streaming high resolution, lossless, 60FPS video of a single object very sensitive to vibrations in the air. You would have to be trying extremely hard to get a periscope video which could have audio extracted, if it's possible at all with all the compression involved.
  - lawry 12y ago
    I didn't took that into account, thanks! Still much more is nowadays possible then people realise. And it scares me how little some users care about privacy issues when uploading photo's/video's. Of course it doesn't means someone somewhere is going to try to harm you, but it's possible. It seems like the days where your username was anonymous and it was hard to track it back to you are over. Not sure if that's a good thing :(
dieg0 12y ago
Just streamed what I'm currently working on... felt odd, like letting 14 people into my office, one guy even asked a question "what are you coding?", it didn't have a way to reply by text... which makes sense as you can be either streaming correctly or typing correctly, which is why once that happened the stream got extremely shaky, [sorry for that other viewers] I think this has potential and it might take a unexpected turn once Carlos Danger gets the news
- darkstar999 12y ago
  Why would you type when you can just talk? Does it not do audio?
  - dieg0 12y ago
    Lol, I know, felt stupid after I got to that realization
sschueller 12y ago
No android version? At what market share does android have to be until companies do android first?
- hrnnnnnn 12y ago
  More than 75% apparently.
- auganov 12y ago
  Some [1] report that Apple pressures app developers into doing iOS-first releases. [1] http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple (search for "Pocket Casts" in the article to find the relevant paragraph.)
  - hullo 12y ago
    For every complaint of that which you can document, I could provide 100,000 developers who hunger for a closer relationship with Apple. It's a non-starter. Developer relations contact? Yes please.
- w4 12y ago
  It's not market share - it's revenue, demographics, usage patterns, and time to market that encourage iOS first over Android. While it is true that Android crushes iOS on global market share, the other factors are reversed in iOS's favor. For example: http://www.businessinsider.com/ios-android-shopping-2013-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/ios-android-shopping-2013-12 Intuitively, this makes a lot of sense. Many Android phones are substantially less expensive than comparable iPhones, and thus act as a stand in for an old Nokia or Ericsson. Those users that purchase inexpensive Android phones often aren't using it as a smartphone - it's just the free or cheap phone they get with their contract, and the use it as a phone first and foremost. This is in direct contrast to the iPhone, where Apple's advertising de-emphasises the "phone" part of the equation. This is further evidenced by the fact that expensive Android phones see comparable (or better!) engagement as compared to iPhones: http://info.localytics.com/blog/top_of_the_line_android_phones_show_40_percent_higher_engagement_than_iphones http://info.localytics.com/blog/top_of_the_line_android_phon... Also, keep in mind that the HN crowd is mostly interested US/Valley companies. Mobile market share numbers in the US are very different than global market share numbers, which leads to a lot of iOS first development in the US: http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Market-Rankings/comScore-Reports-January-2015-US-Smartphone-Subscriber-Market-Share http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Market-Rankings/comScore-Re... Hence why so many apps on HN seem to be iOS first. All of this having been said, if the rising trend in Android revenue and engagement keeps up, along with the improvements Google is making to its developer tooling, it's likely that we'll see Android first start to happen. Some of this trend can be seen in the Localytics analysis above, though it isn't the whole story - App Annie's recent report is a great overview: http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-retrospective-2014/ http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-retrospective-2014/ While there will almost certainly be some lag-time between the time that Android first becomes feasible (e.g. now-ish) and businesses actually going Android first due to psychological biases, once it becomes the more profitable option companies will choose it. Until then, iOS first wins.
sharkweek 12y ago
I really like Periscope. It's clean, fun, and there is a lot of potential, especially with their Twitter distribution. Tried it out this morning and it was really smooth. Meerkat is great too, but clearly has an uphill battle for the next few months after the initial hype. They certainly have passionate initial fans though. I'd be curious to see with Facebook's dedication to video, especially highlighted at F8, if they would consider swooping up Meerkat right now and offer distribution through their ecosystems. This might just be me, but I have Twitter streaming all day, while I check Facebook maybe 2-3 times sporadically, so it might be a bit tougher to capture attention. But who knows, it will be really fascinating to watch. I'm assuming Grelock, their recent series B lead, would not be interested in selling so soon after their investment for anything less than 2x. Post-valuation was $52M, probably a few buyers out there at that price but who knows(Full details on their Series B: http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png)
- sholanozie 12y ago
  Yeah, this is going to be big. I wasn't convinced, but after actually tuning into a couple of broadcasts, Periscope's potential became immediately apparent.
- deveac 12y ago
  >Meerkat is great too, but clearly has an uphill battle for the next few months after the initial hype. I wonder about nuances of engagement on Periscope vs. Meerkat. Periscope's saved video is touted as a feature, but I've noticed that because Meerkat does not give me this option, when I get a notification for a stream I want to watch, I hustle to engage because it's live and I don't want to miss it. I have not used Periscope yet and will be checking it out, but I can absolutely envision a scenario where I get a Pscope notification and ignore it because there really is no urgency as it will be there later. And then those streams end up like just another article in my "read-it-later" apps. Saved and then forgotten because I've moved on, and the promise of what could be in that stream just isn't compelling enough to chase it down later. Saved video is what we already have everywhere all of the time. My guess is that Meerkat's inability to save the stream could be the killer feature.
650REDHAIR 12y ago
This is a good time for Facebook/Instagram to step up and buy Meerkat. This is also a great time for Meerkat to sell. To anyone who's willing to go above $50M.
- sharkweek 12y ago
  I agree but there is just no way their recent series B investors (Greylock) let them sell at a valuation of 50M - their post-val on that round was $52M (http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png), would be tough to sell on a "cut your losses" basis this early. But I do think Facebook could see the value being well above that, so who knows!
jug 12y ago
I hope this can help Twitter. It at least feels like one of those things that seems to be much more compatible with the immediacy of the Twitter culture than the Facebook one.
jabo 12y ago
I've been seeing ads for an analytics app called periscope: https://www.periscope.io https://www.periscope.io. For a second, I thought it was them before clicking through. Poor periscope.io.
- jewel 12y ago
  If you don't want this to happen to your startup, register for a trademark. Since both the twitter program and this analytics ones are apps in the same app stores, I imagine that trademark protection would be broad enough. Twitter's lawyers would have done a trademark search before going live with the app, so the problem would have likely been avoided entirely. Here is Twitter's registration from two weeks ago: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:2i5g3o.3.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:2i5...
mittbitt 12y ago
Saw this on Product Hunt too. They're getting everywhere huh?
normloman 12y ago
Love the screenshot. "Crazy sunset" Like there's this great sunset, and you can't enjoy it because you're busy tweeting it. And there are a handful of others who can't see the sunset because their looking down at their phones, receiving the tweet.
- jkestner 12y ago
  For better or worse, sunsets are just a social bridge. The value is, apparently, in sharing a moment with others. Both are ephemeral.
  - normloman 12y ago
    Sounds like you need to look at more sunsets.
    - hkailahi 12y ago
      This is a pretty useless and unnecessary attack. Sunsets make up a very large percentage of Instagram, Snapchat, and FB photos shared at my university, which shows apparent social value. Sure you may appreciate the experience of watching a sunset live, but clearly the social sharing aspect may be more important to others.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - normloman 12y ago
        Are you really gonna argue that sunsets aren't beautiful, and merely a form of social currency?
        hkailahi 12y ago
        What? I never said sunsets weren't beautiful. That's why people share them. I don't think of them as just a social bridge as the previous poster, but I was merely stating that sharing them can be the biggest value seen by others.
nakedrobot2 12y ago
The only real, but extremely useful, use case I see for this is for uploading video while it's being shot, because someone might take your phone away. For example, when filming the police, or filming any other disruptive / conflict type of event. What other reliable apps are there that can do this?
- JayLoFooBar 12y ago
  Google Hangout, or face time. : )
- nissehulth 12y ago
  bambuser.com
oimaz 12y ago
This is great. I really like the design and screenshot ability. Even though Meerkat seemed like the first mover in this space, looks like they might be beaten by periscope with a better execution
- joezydeco 12y ago
  I'd probably rethink the "heart" thing. Watching hearts flutter over a flaming collapsed building doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.
vermontdevil 12y ago
Anyone able to switch to front camera? Meekrat - you can. I prefer that so I can sign to camera while others watch.
- command_tab 12y ago
  Double-tap the video to flip to the other camera.
  - vermontdevil 12y ago
    Ah after you start broadcasting - me duh. But not very intuitive at first. Thanks!
bluthru 12y ago
Strange that the "Start Broadcasting" button is "hang up" red.
- nav1 12y ago
  Well, "record" buttons also tend to be red.
  - ChrisLTD 12y ago
    Yep! Check out the "Record" button in the iOS Camera app, when you switch to video it changes the circle from white to red.
hkailahi 12y ago
There was a Forbes article on HN about Chris Sacca yesterday, and he's talking about it now - https://www.periscope.tv/w/VvV_yzk2fDY0OTI3wusAmiDk5lk8euhHxEvW1u1g7B3nhEOp4PpP9xhgHf8= https://www.periscope.tv/w/VvV_yzk2fDY0OTI3wusAmiDk5lk8euhHx.... I think it's pretty interesting, like a live AMA. EDIT: It's over now. It's certainly an interesting platform, and I do think it will catch on if celebrities start doing these types of AMA talks. Personally, I would love to watch someone like Sam, PG, or Fred Wilson do one.
Red_ 12y ago
Insight by Wired: http://www.wired.com/2015/03/periscope/ http://www.wired.com/2015/03/periscope/
than 12y ago
White Bear
kolev 12y ago
Looks like a lovely app, but I wonder why did they attempt to pollute the identity space with yet another username?! Let me give you an example of how this can work against them, which is applicable to other startups. Let's say, you're an early adopter and you got a nice Twitter username. Unfortunately, you're in the Android camp (me!). So, a new service comes up and some guy gets lucky enough to "steal" your username. You will then feel alienated from that service, because it doesn't solidify your identity. Same happened with Vine in the past. What's weird as these come out of a company that has invested so much into building a new identity as @username and now they are undermining their investment! Same happened with Facebook. They launched Slingshot, which invented yet another identity nomenclature. Not that I care about Slingshot, but if I did, it would unconsciously boycott it. I'm not talking about me personally (yeah, right!), but I'm just trying to think about possible scenarios. A smart and not so hard to accomplish thing even for the mobile first crowd would be to at least allow account creation on the web. How hard could that be? This way early adopters will blame themselves, not the service, for not being so "early" in the game. These are just some psychological aspects I wanted to share.
msie 12y ago
Oh wow, went to Appstore to look for it and it's Editor's Choice. Bam.
tbeutel 12y ago
This would be a killer app on Google Glass.
- tdkl 12y ago
  This is actually only a stepping stone to prepare people for possible 24/7 Glass surveillance.
ulisesrmzroche 12y ago
I run an Internet TV Station for Latin Indie Music Fans here in Austin (estereobit.tv), and one of the core services is live broadcasting, so these sort of apps interest me a lot. I tried Meerkat during SXSW, but yeah, I'm switching to Periscope. I had users complaining about broken streams, and how they couldn't get the video on time. This could have been due to internet traffic because it's off the charts during SXSW; I'm not sure how it does on smaller events. Reach worries me for sure. I don't know the details of how that is going down with Twitter though. Another thing that worries me is that I can't save videos. A good show can keep accumulating views forever so having that footage available is important. Quality is also a big problem. In low-light settings and with loud music, it's hard to get a good show with just the iPhone. I was thinking of investing in a good camera but I don't know how that would work with these apps. Does anyone have any ideas on how could I get through this hurdle?
teaneedz 12y ago
Are there any privacy issues using this app? Streams won't load for me unless I disable VPN. I'm not sure if that's an issue with my VPN or simply this app (Twitter) blocking / throttling VPN in general. Anyone else notice this issue?
tdkl 12y ago
Streaming mobile videos ? Great, because the world needed another level of narcissistic obsessive behaviour in the society.
msie 12y ago
Oh, I smell a lawsuit! http://periscopewebvideo.com/ http://periscopewebvideo.com/
msie 12y ago
So I'm guessing Periscope must use HTTP Live Streaming for video? https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/StreamingMediaGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Networ... : Important: iPhone and iPad apps that send large amounts of audio or video data over cellular networks are required to use HTTP Live Streaming.
naman34 12y ago
Disclaimer: I work for upclose.me I think Periscope is great. Other than the nice logo, Meerkat was always very rough around the edges, Periscope actually looks very nice in comparison. It also has less latency. We are obviously looking at the competition very seriously, here at upclose. For now, we have confidence in our ability to compete. Though we haven't managed to ride the hype wave like Meerkat and Periscope, we have steady growth. We are also the only platform that also exists on web and Android, and with virtually no latency. I would love to hear your thoughts on upclose
- WA 12y ago
  There's a typo in your URL. I think, it's pretty tough to compete with Twitter. Why? Because people see Twitter already as a micro-journalism platform and live-streaming is more or less live-journalism. Or at least, this is one way to use it and this helps to gain a lot of traction fast. I never tried any live streaming. If I were to start today, I'd use the platform with the most users and least effort to get into. Which is probably going to be Periscope.
  - tim333 12y ago
    I tried periscope and just now upclose.me. I like that you can I think stream to the web whereas periscope seems app only. Though upclose is not working for me after a minute or so - I'm on a slow connection in Vietnam though.
    - naman34 12y ago
      Hi Tim, video streaming usually needs a good internet connection. But with upclose, you should still be able to stream reliably to people near you, as we use a peer-to-peer streaming solution.
  - naman34 12y ago
    Thanks WA. Autocorrect can still bite you! I agree that it is tough to compete with twitter. They have money and a huge reach. Periscope will probably get some advantage when it comes to integration with Twitter. But there are also downsides to being tied to twitter. For example, I don't expect Periscope to every integrate with Facebook or any other competing platform. Upclose already works with Facebook. I'm not trying to say that this is going to be easy. I'm just saying that don't count us out yet.
taozhuo 12y ago
The killer feature of Periscope is real time communication and its massive distribution channel, which Meerkat lacks. If broadcasters don't see more than a few viewers, they lose interest immediately.

224 points by knowbody 12y ago

In my opinion what Meerkat did wrong was not making relationship with Twitter. The reason why they got blocked are simple: - v1 of Meerkat was posting on user's behalf without permission, auto-follow @Meerkat on sign-up, sending Twitter notifications without permission. - user's social graph cannot be ported to the 3rd party apps - recreating commenting network using Twitter's API This is why I am not surprised Twitter blocked them. They say: "you don't shit, where you eat".

smackfu 12y ago
If Twitter already bought a competitor, why would they make a relationship with Meerkat?
- minimaxir 12y ago
  Twitter bought Periscope after Meerkat got press, although it may not have been a cause-and-effect relationship. (M&As take time.) EDIT: See joeblau's comment below.
  - joeblau 12y ago
    I think Twitter bought Periscope (In January Sometime) before Meerkat launched (Early March), but Twitter didn't disclose the acquisition until after Meerkat launched (Mid March). http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/09/twitter-reportedly-buys-streaming-video-app-periscope/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/09/twitter-reportedly-buys-st...
mbesto 12y ago
Meerkat is doing just alright the $21M in their bank (despite being blocked).
- knowbody 12y ago
  I'm happy for them. Don't get me wrong, I love meerkat, it's a great app. Periscope looks like a one night hack for me. My point is that their entire app relies entirely on Twitter.
  - testingonprod 12y ago
    To me, Meerkat is the one that looks like a one night hack...
Y_Not 12y ago
Sounds a lot like this blog post: www.twizoo.com/meerkat Also picked up by Business Insider: http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-meerkat-saga-shows-the-danger-of-bas-2015-3 http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-meerkat-saga-shows-the-dan... But yes, agreed. Don't shit where you eat.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ryandvm 12y ago

It's weird how these app fads go. I used to work for a company in Charleston, SC that has been doing live streaming for almost a year now (http://stre.am/ http://stre.am/). They got some press out of SXSW, but without a voice in the Si Valley echo chamber, I suspect they're going to get crowded out.

iMark 12y ago
I think live video streaming for mobile is going to be far more than a fad. I believe we're very close to a tipping point, where all will take is a single high profile case (imagine someone live streaming an instance of police brutality for example) for the technology to reach a mass audience.
- ihuman 12y ago
  > someone live streaming an instance of police brutality Hasn't that been done for many instances already? People have been live streaming from Ferguson, Egypt, etc.
  - BYWallace 12y ago
    These new apps are bringing a much more streamlined, accessible method for anyone with a smartphone. People in Ferguson or Egypt likely had a more complex set-up or were posting pre-recorded footage.
    - djhunt 12y ago
      Maybe only more complex in that they cost $ to livestream, but I could sit in front of my Roku and watch multiple live streams of Ferguson protests on UStream.
- untog 12y ago
  imagine someone live streaming an instance of police brutality for example) What's the case for the "live" part, though? If you imagined everyone at a Ferguson protest live streaming their experience it would be utterly overwhelming. Much better instead for people to edit the sections that are actually interesting and post them to YouTube/LiveLeak/whatever. I don't see how livestreaming adds much.

aikah 12y ago

Didn't they just shut down a service that did the same by blocking their twitter api access or am I mixing stuff up ?

tartuffe78 12y ago
Yea, Meerkat was shut down for spammy practices apparently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9207271
- minimaxir 12y ago
  The app wasn't shut down, but one feature (auto-follow) was cut off. Periscope does not use this feature either. All the other spammy app practices remain.

whistlerbrk 12y ago

I don't like the message Twitter sends with the semi-walled garden. Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but this to me says "develop on our platform and if you come up with a good idea and we like what you do we'll just do it ourselves"

nothrabannosir 12y ago
Not saying that's never true, but in this specific case there's just no way Twitter went from zero to release with this app since meerkat launched. A company the size of Twitter doesn't do weekend hackathons for important launches like this. Not that I know of, at least. Add to that the obviousness of this app, and bayesian chances are pretty high they just came up with it concurrently but were later with the release. EDIT: It also explains why Twitter went so draconian on Meerkat. EDIT2: But I'd have to add: yeah, Twitter's behavior is chilling. The way they cracked down on Meerkat, and now just try to play this launch off as if nothing happened, it's disingenuous. Just come out and say it, Twitter: you used your technically justified power over Meerkat to gain competitive advantage. EDIT3: A friend tells me they didn't develop this app, they just bought it. Makes even more sense.
- talkingquickly 12y ago
  Yep they purchased Periscope earlier this month. http://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-acquires-live-video-streaming-startup-periscope-1425938498> http://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-acquires-live-video-stre...
- minimaxir 12y ago
  > Not saying that's never true, but in this specific case there's just no way Twitter went from zero to release with this app since meerkat launched. A company the size of Twitter doesn't do weekend hackathons for important launches like this. Not that I know of, at least. Periscope had been in a closed beta for months before they were purchased. I'm surprised no media has ever tried the angle of Meerkat being a Periscope clone. http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/26/abre-los-ojos/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/26/abre-los-ojos/
- 12y ago

austenallred 12y ago

I have this strange sense of aversion to Periscope, even though I know it's not logical. It feels to me like Meerkat was a cool thing built by a bunch of my friends that took off, and then the big blood-sucking corporation (Twitter) tried to rip it off and make some money (even though that's not accurate). That probably stems from this conversation between Ben (the co-founder of Meerkat), and someone who was building something similar: http://austenallred.com/assets/ph-ben.png http://austenallred.com/assets/ph-ben.png > Pete: "I was working on the exact same app... kind of depressed right now. :(" > Ben: "PETE! What makes you think you're not capable of doing something better/different? It would be a very sad world if people just gave up on ideas. I can tell you that the live video space is still broken in terms of the distribution mechanism, and that obviously Meerkat is not perfect. There's a very good chance that anyone in the world could come up with a better product/perspective. Please, go back to code. That's how we'll all build things better together, even though we'll all work separately - we learn from each other." How can you not fall in love with that product/company?

minimaxir 12y ago
> How can you not fall in love with that product/company? For several reasons, mostly for destroying my Twitter feed in the name of "growth hacking." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9208429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9208429
- dataker 12y ago
  Can you blame them? One way or the other, it was probably one of the only strategies available and ended up being successful. Unlike larger companies, they had to solve the chicken-and-egg problem to distribute the product.
  - encoderer 12y ago
    I'm of a mixed mind on this, but I will add clarity here: you are definitely condoning spam in the name of 'doing whatever it takes'.

noer 12y ago

Compared to Meercat, there's a better UI, more ways to explore users to find new content and not as much of a blank slate for new users. After using each less than 5 times, I sort of prefer periscope.

kashjawed 12y ago
most of the users I know who tried both apps agree that Periscope has far better UI. Meerkat has been crashing on my iPhone so I've given up on it.

hodgesmr 12y ago

Think about why, in a world with LiveStream, UStream, & YouTube Live Events, people see Meerkat as revolutionary. Also apply that question to Spotify vs Rhapsody.

azinman2 12y ago
Perhaps initial traction/buzz just nets bigger with the "right" initial users. There's also execution details as well in the product itself. But great q... maybe they just had the timing wrong?
taozhuo 12y ago
Because they take more than a few tap/clicks.

lawry 12y ago

Remember even if you mute your microphone, it's still possible to extract audio from the video you are streaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKXOucXB4a8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKXOucXB4a8

rkuykendall-com 12y ago
> it's still possible to extract audio from the video you are streaming, if you are perfectly still, streaming high resolution, lossless, 60FPS video of a single object very sensitive to vibrations in the air. You would have to be trying extremely hard to get a periscope video which could have audio extracted, if it's possible at all with all the compression involved.
- lawry 12y ago
  I didn't took that into account, thanks! Still much more is nowadays possible then people realise. And it scares me how little some users care about privacy issues when uploading photo's/video's. Of course it doesn't means someone somewhere is going to try to harm you, but it's possible. It seems like the days where your username was anonymous and it was hard to track it back to you are over. Not sure if that's a good thing :(

dieg0 12y ago

Just streamed what I'm currently working on... felt odd, like letting 14 people into my office, one guy even asked a question "what are you coding?", it didn't have a way to reply by text... which makes sense as you can be either streaming correctly or typing correctly, which is why once that happened the stream got extremely shaky, [sorry for that other viewers] I think this has potential and it might take a unexpected turn once Carlos Danger gets the news

darkstar999 12y ago
Why would you type when you can just talk? Does it not do audio?
- dieg0 12y ago
  Lol, I know, felt stupid after I got to that realization

sschueller 12y ago

No android version? At what market share does android have to be until companies do android first?

hrnnnnnn 12y ago
More than 75% apparently.
auganov 12y ago
Some [1] report that Apple pressures app developers into doing iOS-first releases. [1] http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple (search for "Pocket Casts" in the article to find the relevant paragraph.)
- hullo 12y ago
  For every complaint of that which you can document, I could provide 100,000 developers who hunger for a closer relationship with Apple. It's a non-starter. Developer relations contact? Yes please.
w4 12y ago
It's not market share - it's revenue, demographics, usage patterns, and time to market that encourage iOS first over Android. While it is true that Android crushes iOS on global market share, the other factors are reversed in iOS's favor. For example: http://www.businessinsider.com/ios-android-shopping-2013-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/ios-android-shopping-2013-12 Intuitively, this makes a lot of sense. Many Android phones are substantially less expensive than comparable iPhones, and thus act as a stand in for an old Nokia or Ericsson. Those users that purchase inexpensive Android phones often aren't using it as a smartphone - it's just the free or cheap phone they get with their contract, and the use it as a phone first and foremost. This is in direct contrast to the iPhone, where Apple's advertising de-emphasises the "phone" part of the equation. This is further evidenced by the fact that expensive Android phones see comparable (or better!) engagement as compared to iPhones: http://info.localytics.com/blog/top_of_the_line_android_phones_show_40_percent_higher_engagement_than_iphones http://info.localytics.com/blog/top_of_the_line_android_phon... Also, keep in mind that the HN crowd is mostly interested US/Valley companies. Mobile market share numbers in the US are very different than global market share numbers, which leads to a lot of iOS first development in the US: http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Market-Rankings/comScore-Reports-January-2015-US-Smartphone-Subscriber-Market-Share http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Market-Rankings/comScore-Re... Hence why so many apps on HN seem to be iOS first. All of this having been said, if the rising trend in Android revenue and engagement keeps up, along with the improvements Google is making to its developer tooling, it's likely that we'll see Android first start to happen. Some of this trend can be seen in the Localytics analysis above, though it isn't the whole story - App Annie's recent report is a great overview: http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-retrospective-2014/ http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-retrospective-2014/ While there will almost certainly be some lag-time between the time that Android first becomes feasible (e.g. now-ish) and businesses actually going Android first due to psychological biases, once it becomes the more profitable option companies will choose it. Until then, iOS first wins.

sharkweek 12y ago

I really like Periscope. It's clean, fun, and there is a lot of potential, especially with their Twitter distribution. Tried it out this morning and it was really smooth. Meerkat is great too, but clearly has an uphill battle for the next few months after the initial hype. They certainly have passionate initial fans though. I'd be curious to see with Facebook's dedication to video, especially highlighted at F8, if they would consider swooping up Meerkat right now and offer distribution through their ecosystems. This might just be me, but I have Twitter streaming all day, while I check Facebook maybe 2-3 times sporadically, so it might be a bit tougher to capture attention. But who knows, it will be really fascinating to watch. I'm assuming Grelock, their recent series B lead, would not be interested in selling so soon after their investment for anything less than 2x. Post-valuation was $52M, probably a few buyers out there at that price but who knows(Full details on their Series B: http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png)

sholanozie 12y ago
Yeah, this is going to be big. I wasn't convinced, but after actually tuning into a couple of broadcasts, Periscope's potential became immediately apparent.
deveac 12y ago
>Meerkat is great too, but clearly has an uphill battle for the next few months after the initial hype. I wonder about nuances of engagement on Periscope vs. Meerkat. Periscope's saved video is touted as a feature, but I've noticed that because Meerkat does not give me this option, when I get a notification for a stream I want to watch, I hustle to engage because it's live and I don't want to miss it. I have not used Periscope yet and will be checking it out, but I can absolutely envision a scenario where I get a Pscope notification and ignore it because there really is no urgency as it will be there later. And then those streams end up like just another article in my "read-it-later" apps. Saved and then forgotten because I've moved on, and the promise of what could be in that stream just isn't compelling enough to chase it down later. Saved video is what we already have everywhere all of the time. My guess is that Meerkat's inability to save the stream could be the killer feature.

650REDHAIR 12y ago

This is a good time for Facebook/Instagram to step up and buy Meerkat. This is also a great time for Meerkat to sell. To anyone who's willing to go above $50M.

sharkweek 12y ago
I agree but there is just no way their recent series B investors (Greylock) let them sell at a valuation of 50M - their post-val on that round was $52M (http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png http://i.imgur.com/9zOonad.png), would be tough to sell on a "cut your losses" basis this early. But I do think Facebook could see the value being well above that, so who knows!

jug 12y ago

I hope this can help Twitter. It at least feels like one of those things that seems to be much more compatible with the immediacy of the Twitter culture than the Facebook one.

jabo 12y ago

I've been seeing ads for an analytics app called periscope: https://www.periscope.io https://www.periscope.io. For a second, I thought it was them before clicking through. Poor periscope.io.

jewel 12y ago
If you don't want this to happen to your startup, register for a trademark. Since both the twitter program and this analytics ones are apps in the same app stores, I imagine that trademark protection would be broad enough. Twitter's lawyers would have done a trademark search before going live with the app, so the problem would have likely been avoided entirely. Here is Twitter's registration from two weeks ago: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:2i5g3o.3.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:2i5...

mittbitt 12y ago

Saw this on Product Hunt too. They're getting everywhere huh?

normloman 12y ago

Love the screenshot. "Crazy sunset" Like there's this great sunset, and you can't enjoy it because you're busy tweeting it. And there are a handful of others who can't see the sunset because their looking down at their phones, receiving the tweet.

jkestner 12y ago
For better or worse, sunsets are just a social bridge. The value is, apparently, in sharing a moment with others. Both are ephemeral.
- normloman 12y ago
  Sounds like you need to look at more sunsets.
  - hkailahi 12y ago
    This is a pretty useless and unnecessary attack. Sunsets make up a very large percentage of Instagram, Snapchat, and FB photos shared at my university, which shows apparent social value. Sure you may appreciate the experience of watching a sunset live, but clearly the social sharing aspect may be more important to others.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - normloman 12y ago
      Are you really gonna argue that sunsets aren't beautiful, and merely a form of social currency?
      - hkailahi 12y ago
        What? I never said sunsets weren't beautiful. That's why people share them. I don't think of them as just a social bridge as the previous poster, but I was merely stating that sharing them can be the biggest value seen by others.

nakedrobot2 12y ago

The only real, but extremely useful, use case I see for this is for uploading video while it's being shot, because someone might take your phone away. For example, when filming the police, or filming any other disruptive / conflict type of event. What other reliable apps are there that can do this?

JayLoFooBar 12y ago
Google Hangout, or face time. : )
nissehulth 12y ago
bambuser.com

oimaz 12y ago

This is great. I really like the design and screenshot ability. Even though Meerkat seemed like the first mover in this space, looks like they might be beaten by periscope with a better execution

joezydeco 12y ago
I'd probably rethink the "heart" thing. Watching hearts flutter over a flaming collapsed building doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

vermontdevil 12y ago

Anyone able to switch to front camera? Meekrat - you can. I prefer that so I can sign to camera while others watch.

command_tab 12y ago
Double-tap the video to flip to the other camera.
- vermontdevil 12y ago
  Ah after you start broadcasting - me duh. But not very intuitive at first. Thanks!

bluthru 12y ago

Strange that the "Start Broadcasting" button is "hang up" red.

nav1 12y ago
Well, "record" buttons also tend to be red.
- ChrisLTD 12y ago
  Yep! Check out the "Record" button in the iOS Camera app, when you switch to video it changes the circle from white to red.

hkailahi 12y ago

There was a Forbes article on HN about Chris Sacca yesterday, and he's talking about it now - https://www.periscope.tv/w/VvV_yzk2fDY0OTI3wusAmiDk5lk8euhHxEvW1u1g7B3nhEOp4PpP9xhgHf8= https://www.periscope.tv/w/VvV_yzk2fDY0OTI3wusAmiDk5lk8euhHx.... I think it's pretty interesting, like a live AMA. EDIT: It's over now. It's certainly an interesting platform, and I do think it will catch on if celebrities start doing these types of AMA talks. Personally, I would love to watch someone like Sam, PG, or Fred Wilson do one.

Red_ 12y ago

Insight by Wired: http://www.wired.com/2015/03/periscope/ http://www.wired.com/2015/03/periscope/

than 12y ago

White Bear

kolev 12y ago

Looks like a lovely app, but I wonder why did they attempt to pollute the identity space with yet another username?! Let me give you an example of how this can work against them, which is applicable to other startups. Let's say, you're an early adopter and you got a nice Twitter username. Unfortunately, you're in the Android camp (me!). So, a new service comes up and some guy gets lucky enough to "steal" your username. You will then feel alienated from that service, because it doesn't solidify your identity. Same happened with Vine in the past. What's weird as these come out of a company that has invested so much into building a new identity as @username and now they are undermining their investment! Same happened with Facebook. They launched Slingshot, which invented yet another identity nomenclature. Not that I care about Slingshot, but if I did, it would unconsciously boycott it. I'm not talking about me personally (yeah, right!), but I'm just trying to think about possible scenarios. A smart and not so hard to accomplish thing even for the mobile first crowd would be to at least allow account creation on the web. How hard could that be? This way early adopters will blame themselves, not the service, for not being so "early" in the game. These are just some psychological aspects I wanted to share.

msie 12y ago

Oh wow, went to Appstore to look for it and it's Editor's Choice. Bam.

tbeutel 12y ago

This would be a killer app on Google Glass.

tdkl 12y ago
This is actually only a stepping stone to prepare people for possible 24/7 Glass surveillance.

ulisesrmzroche 12y ago

I run an Internet TV Station for Latin Indie Music Fans here in Austin (estereobit.tv), and one of the core services is live broadcasting, so these sort of apps interest me a lot. I tried Meerkat during SXSW, but yeah, I'm switching to Periscope. I had users complaining about broken streams, and how they couldn't get the video on time. This could have been due to internet traffic because it's off the charts during SXSW; I'm not sure how it does on smaller events. Reach worries me for sure. I don't know the details of how that is going down with Twitter though. Another thing that worries me is that I can't save videos. A good show can keep accumulating views forever so having that footage available is important. Quality is also a big problem. In low-light settings and with loud music, it's hard to get a good show with just the iPhone. I was thinking of investing in a good camera but I don't know how that would work with these apps. Does anyone have any ideas on how could I get through this hurdle?

teaneedz 12y ago

Are there any privacy issues using this app? Streams won't load for me unless I disable VPN. I'm not sure if that's an issue with my VPN or simply this app (Twitter) blocking / throttling VPN in general. Anyone else notice this issue?

tdkl 12y ago

Streaming mobile videos ? Great, because the world needed another level of narcissistic obsessive behaviour in the society.

msie 12y ago

Oh, I smell a lawsuit! http://periscopewebvideo.com/ http://periscopewebvideo.com/

msie 12y ago

So I'm guessing Periscope must use HTTP Live Streaming for video? https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/StreamingMediaGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Networ... : Important: iPhone and iPad apps that send large amounts of audio or video data over cellular networks are required to use HTTP Live Streaming.

naman34 12y ago

Disclaimer: I work for upclose.me I think Periscope is great. Other than the nice logo, Meerkat was always very rough around the edges, Periscope actually looks very nice in comparison. It also has less latency. We are obviously looking at the competition very seriously, here at upclose. For now, we have confidence in our ability to compete. Though we haven't managed to ride the hype wave like Meerkat and Periscope, we have steady growth. We are also the only platform that also exists on web and Android, and with virtually no latency. I would love to hear your thoughts on upclose

WA 12y ago
There's a typo in your URL. I think, it's pretty tough to compete with Twitter. Why? Because people see Twitter already as a micro-journalism platform and live-streaming is more or less live-journalism. Or at least, this is one way to use it and this helps to gain a lot of traction fast. I never tried any live streaming. If I were to start today, I'd use the platform with the most users and least effort to get into. Which is probably going to be Periscope.
- tim333 12y ago
  I tried periscope and just now upclose.me. I like that you can I think stream to the web whereas periscope seems app only. Though upclose is not working for me after a minute or so - I'm on a slow connection in Vietnam though.
  - naman34 12y ago
    Hi Tim, video streaming usually needs a good internet connection. But with upclose, you should still be able to stream reliably to people near you, as we use a peer-to-peer streaming solution.
- naman34 12y ago
  Thanks WA. Autocorrect can still bite you! I agree that it is tough to compete with twitter. They have money and a huge reach. Periscope will probably get some advantage when it comes to integration with Twitter. But there are also downsides to being tied to twitter. For example, I don't expect Periscope to every integrate with Facebook or any other competing platform. Upclose already works with Facebook. I'm not trying to say that this is going to be easy. I'm just saying that don't count us out yet.

taozhuo 12y ago

The killer feature of Periscope is real time communication and its massive distribution channel, which Meerkat lacks. If broadcasters don't see more than a few viewers, they lose interest immediately.