8 ms·
Notes on 416 Days of Treadmill Desk Usage
- revelation 12y agoCache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DDBINgoJ-6AJ:nealstephenson.com/news/2015/03/09/notes-on-416-days-of-treadmill-desk-usage/&hl=en&gl=de&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DDBINgo...
- jsprogrammer 12y agoDidn't capture the images...
- dantheman 12y agoSurprising how few calories it burns, seems like a simple 30 minute walk would be better and have less of an impact.
- joe_the_user 12y agoI think the appeal of a treadmill desk is mostly avoiding sitting or just-standing at a desk, both of which have been shown to do damage to a body. It seems like the article kind of indicates to me that the ultimately the damage might be neither sitting nor standing nor walking but simply being absorbed in the computer while you let your body deteriorate.
- therealdrag0 12y agoFrom what I've read, exercising before or after work does NOT negate the negative health effects of sitting all day. It helps, but continuous sitting is still just terrible for us.
- patchu-michu 12y agoCare to expand? I thought the relationship between poor health outcomes and sitting was a correlation requiring further study to demonstrate causation? Interested to read any research that says otherwise
- therealdrag0 12y agoI don't remember coming across any research proving causation over correlation. From a quick Google search, there are a couple news articles (with direct links to the journal articles) about extra-curricular exercise not removing harms (which is all I meant to note in my OP): - http://qz.com/223160/why-not-even-exercise-will-undo-the-harm-of-sitting-all-day-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/ http://qz.com/223160/why-not-even-exercise-will-undo-the-har... - http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/health/sitting-will-kill-you/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/health/sitting-will-kill-you/
- rguzman 12y agoPeople think that sitting is very bad for you because it is correlated with all kinds of undesirable health outcomes. Does anyone know whether these effects disappear when controlling for level of activity?
- rosser 12y agoIt was my understanding that if you're largely sedentary, no amount of exercise can "make up" for that, and that the correlation with increased morbidity and mortality remains.
- jfoutz 12y agoWhat does largely sedentary mean? So, for example, running a marathon doesn't take much training. It averages about an hour per day, according to this [1]. The runners seem to be living "largely sedentary" lives, playing video games, watching TV, sitting for work, etc. It sure seems like running has some positive effects [2]. Are you saying that Stephenson's approach of walking slow most of the day is pretty much the only way to unlock an extra year or five? My argument is, of course, argument via google. There's so much contradictory information and economic motive to, well, lie that it's hard for me to get a grip on what's actually sensible. Some regular exercise sounds like a good argument, and there's some evidence to back that up ([2] for example), but it sure has the feeling of folklore. [1] http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/the-marathon-runner-as-couch-potato/?_r=0 http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/the-marathon-runner... [2] http://www.hs.iastate.edu/news/2014/07/28/iowa-state-professor-finds-leisure-running-reduces-mortality-risk/ http://www.hs.iastate.edu/news/2014/07/28/iowa-state-profess...
- bluthru 12y agoNot the most scientific of articles, but it references some interesting data: http://chriskresser.com/how-sitting-too-much-is-making-us-sick-and-fat-and-what-to-do-about-it http://chriskresser.com/how-sitting-too-much-is-making-us-si...
- SpaceInvader 12y agoSitting is new smoking. It's okay to not be active all the time, but when you turn it to habbit then it starts to be dangerous.
- SocksCanClose 12y agoDidn't answer they question everybody really wants to know: what is up with Enoch Root??
- nasalgoat 12y agoI remember reading REAMDE which has a protagonist who uses a walking desk, and attributes his massive weight loss to it. Science fiction it would seem, but still a good idea!
- therealdrag0 12y agoHowever, there are people who have lost a lot of weight by making their video-games dependent on continuing to pedal/walk. I think there is even a sub for it, but I can't think of the name.
- nl 12y agoWhile he is correct that slow walking doesn't burn many calories in itself, there is also evidence[1] that even mild levels of exercise act to increase your metabolism significantly. This means that the benefits outweigh the simple measurement of calories burnt, especially for people who are otherwise sedentary. [1] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013022 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....
- jader201 12y agoA lot of contradictory comments on this thread: > This means that the benefits outweigh the simple measurement of calories burnt, especially for people who are otherwise sedentary. > It was my understanding that if you're largely sedentary, no amount of exercise can "make up" for that, and that the correlation with increased morbidity and mortality remains. Some say that even a little helps, some say that even large amounts of exercise still isn't enough. As a largely sedentary person, I wish there were more concrete studies done to show how to mitigate the risks of long-term problems for those of us that are sedentary for a (relatively) big part of the day.
- Swizec 12y ago> Some say that even a little helps, some say that even large amounts of exercise still isn't enough. Something is always better than nothing. It might not increase your long-term longevity, but will be of great help in an altercation or simply playing with a child. And here's the kicker: IF YOU DO LARGE AMOUNTS OF EXERCISE YOU ARE NO LONGER LARGELY SEDENTARY.
- mod 12y agoWouldn't largely sedentary refer to the amount of hours sedentary? I spend 8 hours in a chair, minimum. It's unlikely that I spend 100% of the remaining waking hours standing, so I'm already largely sedentary. Factor in sleep and it's not even close.
- 12y ago
- simplemath 12y agoI'm irrationally annoyed that Neal freaking Stephenson is using such a shItty host.
- bronson 12y agoNo kidding. The lesson: never ever use Hang Left Hosting. When you get popular, they replace your content with their own, um, whatever page that is.
- moron4hire 12y agoI guess it's true then that none of that Clang Kickstarter money is left.
- mercurialshark 12y agoProbably the most articulate and persuasive piece analyzing treadmill desks is Neal Stephenson's "Arsebestos" in his book of various essays Some Remarks. If this is a link to said essay I wouldn't know, the server is crushed...
- cpeterso 12y agoI wouldn't be able to read or concentrate if I was walking on treadmill. And how noisy is it?
- renata 12y agoI find that it actually helps my concentration a bit to be able to stop typing and just walk for a bit when I'm thinking about something, but I'm a pacer to start with. When I'm actually typing I don't notice it much; it's only a major impediment when I'm doing a lot of mouse work. It's audible but not noisy. I'm in a cubical environment where most people have headphones on all day and my coworkers immediately surrounding me can hear it with headphones off but those with one cube in between cannot.
- pbhjpbhj 12y agoYou walk whilst typing?
- atwebb 12y agoIt's much easier than you might think and the noise isn't too bad. I commonly take a conference call while walking and typing, a good headset alleviates most noise issues (better than folks in there cars).
- renata 12y agoI had problems initially but it turned out my keyboard shelf was not at the right height. Since I've corrected that I no longer have problems.
- alain94040 12y agoCan't pass the mention of "do you know your revenue per mile": http://walkingworking.com/english/do-you-know-your-average-revenue-per-kilometer/ http://walkingworking.com/english/do-you-know-your-average-r... 6000 km is a lot of walking.
- afarrell 12y agoI would like to see someone make a treadmill desk for less than $1000. If you can buy a poor-quality treadmill with rails for $200, why can't you buy a poor quality one without rails to put under a standing desk which you've made out of PVC, lag bolts, and IKEA parts? I would love to know where to get a cheap treadmill without rails though...
- stevenwei 12y agoYou can, but most of those poor quality treadmills are meant for light use (i.e. running at high RPM for 30-60 mins per day, 3-5 days a week). If you try to run the same treadmill at low RPM for several hours per day every day, you'll burn out the motor pretty quickly. That's not to say that people don't try though, there are plenty of DIY treadmill desks made out of exactly what you describe.
- mapt 12y agoI would venture to guess that powered ellipticals might be a better solution here. Much less erratic, impactful structural loading.
- luxpir 12y agoCheck out this treadmiller[1] who documented his very affordable setup and results. I've done the same for around £100 using the tripod-stand from previous standing-desk efforts. It reversed a slowly creeping weight gain for me. Then we had our first child and the data was skewed, i.e. weight plummeted, but it's back on the trendline now and steady with limited use of the treadmill. Concentration, noise, typing (I type a lot for a living); none adversely affected. You can adjust and it's surprisingly easy to do so. Besides, as a person with a relatively healthy BMI already (whatever it truly means for health, I was just into the overweight section before), I don't use the setup all day on those days when I do have it on. A mixture of standing, walking and sitting works fine, switching as and when it feels needed. I understand that doing any one of those all day can be detrimental in the long term so I keep moving. The muscular effects of standing/walking can easily be felt after a few sessions. That's enough of a result for me to know it's worthwhile. -- [1] http://www.treadmilldeskdiary.com/introduction http://www.treadmilldeskdiary.com/introduction
- gouggoug 12y agoI'm curious to know how hard it is to focus on a concentration intensive task such as programming (or novel writing in the case of Neal Stephenson) and walk at a reasonable pace on a treadmill; not to mention how do you effectively type on your keyboard? I personally feel like I wouldn't be able to write software while on a treadmill as I already find it hard to do sometimes while standing up at my desk.
- pbhjpbhj 12y agoI assumed at 3mi a day he's walking for about 1-1½ hours and so was doing that at times when he's normally be reading back work, dictating, reading forums or watching a video or what-have-you.
- gouggoug 12y agoGood observation, I hadn't realized that.
- s1300045 12y agoI personally find it difficult to do anything mentally taxing. I walk at a 3.5mph pace, and I can hardly stay concentrated. I can code and do grunt work, but I can't solve complex problems while on a treadmill desk. I find a solution in splitting my time and do complex coding while sitting grunt coding while on the treadmill. The switching is distracting. I don't get as much done this way comparing to sitting all day, but overall I think the health benefit is worth it. There is also the possibility my pace is too fast, though.
- gwern 12y agoYes, this is the major problem with OP: daily miles logged and a gait problem are some basic preliminaries, but ultimately are irrelevant to the question of whether one should use a treadmill desk and don't really mean anything. If one doesn't have that specific problem, should one use a treadmill desk? Dunno. He presents several graphs of daily mileage, is that evidence for or against usage of treadmill desks? Dunno. The calorie count is small (compared to what?) when he calculates out, does that mean treadmill desks are not helpful? Dunno. More relevant would be stuff like: how many emails did he send each day correlated against mileage? How many words did he write in his novel, or how many words did he edit? Did he at least lose some weight? Was his mood better on treadmill days? Did he consider running a simple randomized test (just flip a coin for each day whether to use a treadmill) for anything? Heck, what was his subjective experience, even, about the effects of treadmill - did he feel unable, as many people do (not just you), to do anything requiring real concentration? OP reminds me a lot of Stephen Wolfram's big fancy QS post about metrics like typing: he had measured an impressive number of things, but nothing that ever mattered.