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Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

• serve_yay 12y ago
  Sports are so prevalent that if you're not interested, it must be an affect :) I can watch some sports for a while (basketball and football), but after a couple hours it gets pretty boring, plus I've probably had some beers so the combination tends to make me sleepy. It was exciting when I was in college and rooting for my team at the stadium and all that, but how people connect with teams outside of such a setting has never really made sense to me. I'm from Pittsburgh, a city that loves their team, but it just doesn't connect with me for whatever reason. I'd prefer if they win, sure. But that's about all. And there is a lot of new info to keep on top of, every day. It strikes me as somewhat of a serious commitment to be into sports, and though I like sports a bit, that commitment isn't worth it to me. As I said, I can watch a game alright (or really more like half to 3/4 of a game), but knowing which players are good, who's having a good season, who is the new coach, etc, it's just way too much uninteresting information. Like learning times tables again, or something.
  • CocaKoala 12y ago
    It helps a lot if you have a friend who's really passionate about the sport; you can leech off of their passion until you develop some of your own. When I started dating the woman who would later be my wife, I would occasionally watch hockey games with her; she is from Detroit and grew up an ardent, passionate fan of the Red Wings. After a few games of her explaining the rules and strategy, telling me about the fantastic teamwork between Datsyuk and Zetterburg, and relating the history of the team with regards to their regional rivals, I got in to it on my own time. We aren't able to watch many Wings games now that we live in California, but we've got tickets to watch them play the Sharks in a couple weeks. The parent post is pretty spot on; you can really choose how much effort you want to put in to being a sports fan. You don't need to know who's having a good season or which players are the best if you don't want to; even just casually browsing the sports page a couple times a week to see the standings and the outcome of the latest game is enough to be able to hold a conversation about it with somebody else.
    • tjradcliffe 12y ago
      I think you're underestimating the crashing indifference some of us feel toward all sports. It's not cultivated, and it's not that we haven't tried or been exposed to other's enthusiasms. It's not that we haven't played a bit ourselves, even, at least at beer-league level. My whole family is pretty nuts about American football, so I grew up surrounded by it and can still appreciate the beauty and complexity of the game, the strategy and execution. But I watch the Superbowl and that's it. I just can't be bothered with anything else. I used to play soccer with a bunch of Europeans who could happily discuss Champions League play for hours. Never was able to muster up the interest to do more than fake a short conversation. I followed baseball for long enough to survive a World Series while living in the US, during which time it was impossible to have a conversation with anyone about anything that didn't involve the game. My interest lapsed the moment the last bat was swung. It was just too much work to maintain. Why do sports leave some of us so utterly flat? I have no idea (although from reading some of the comments here apparently the world is full of people who can tell on the basis of a few short sentences the entirety of a person's motivations, which is a pretty good trick.) But it's the reality. So yeah, you can choose how much effort you want to put into being a sports fan, but for some of us the amount of effort required to engage beyond the most brain-dead superficial level is huge compared to the effort the average fan puts in following their favourite team. For whatever reason, some of us face a wall of indifference that makes the effort of surmounting it simply not worth it. [I half expect replies to tell me that "no I really just don't understand how beautiful $GAME is", which is the flip side of that uncanny ability to know everything about a person's motivations.]
      • CocaKoala 12y ago
        >But I watch the Superbowl and that's it. I just can't be bothered with anything else. That's totally fine! If the extent of your emotional commitment to football is "I watch the superbowl and that's it", that's still a passing interest in the sport and the sort of thing the article is encouraging. The attitude that the article is lamenting is the people who go out of their way to avoid being interested in football, the people who take pride in their lack of interest. The sorts of people who, next Monday, are going to be saying, "Oh, the superbowl was yesterday? I figured I'd just catch the commercials on youtube; that's the only interesting part anyways. I don't even know who was playing." That sort of disinterest is cultivated.
  • theoh 12y ago
    Affect =/= affectation, if that's what you meant to say.
    • serve_yay 12y ago
      I suppose. Colloquially "an affect" means a put-on or, sure, an affectation. Affectation is just such a clumsy word, though.
• spacemunkay 12y ago
  In summary, you should try liking things that a lot of other people like because you might like them yourself and it will help you make conversation with those that also like them.
  • serve_yay 12y ago
    My father has been a sales guy for a long time, and he got into playing golf for this reason. He never liked watching sports, which if you're in sales is a bit of a handicap. He doesn't even know the rules of a football game. So the golf gave him something in that space to talk with others about, without having to keep on top of sports news. Plus it's OK if you suck at golf, everyone you're playing with sucks too. And if they don't suck, you make them look even better. And you get to walk around on a (usually) nicely manicured bit of grass on a (hopefully) sunny day.
    • mod 12y ago
      I'm not sure how this works. "Hey, who's your pick in the superbowl?" "I like to golf!"
      • Avshalom 12y ago
        In a world of pedants it wouldn't but the same way short genre fiction and multi volume biographies get lumped together in "reading" any sport is enough to give you a couple of sports related conversational gambits.
        • mod 12y ago
          I worked in a bar for a long time. I love playing basketball, and I'm the best pool player in my area (and the bar was full of pool players). That never sufficed for knowing about football. People want to talk football. They like talking pool with me too, and it's not like I was cast out of the social circle over it--but most sports conversations, in my experience, start out very specifically. "Who you like in the SEC this year?" "You been watching this cheating stuff with Belichick?" Don't know who Belichick is? You're not going to fudge a conversation, most likely.
• angersock 12y ago
  Part of the reason I don't like watching, say, American football is that I used to play it in highschool. Once you've actually played the game, watching other people play is kinda boring. Especially when you see what a comically capitalized affair the whole thing is. Also, this part from the article is kind of silly: The machoness and absence of women in the highest levels of most professional sports bothers me deeply. Most sports are built rather heavily around the design constraints of the human body. For what is effectively organized physical conflict, the genetics favor males heavily.
  • dl8 12y ago
    I find it the opposite, and I played in high school too, but since I know the mechanics of everything it makes it a lot more interesting. For instance most people only get the gist of the game, whereas for me actually seeing what formations the offense is running and what coverage scheme the defense is using on a particular play makes it 100x more interesting than if I didn't know any of that stuff like the average viewer.
    • deleted 12y ago
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    • steve-howard 12y ago
      I've never played the sport beyond a limited-contact flag football league, but I agree with your sentiment. It takes a lot of time to really get to know the game, and if you really like the sport for what it is it's suddenly not so bad to root for a terrible team. It is kind of a bummer that you rarely get to see all 22 on a broadcast, because the camera stays fixed on the ball carrier. It can be hard to tell if a quarterback is having a bad season because he sucks or because none of his receivers are getting open (though any sports blog will be happy to give you an opinion).
      • TillE 12y ago
        > It is kind of a bummer that you rarely get to see all 22 on a broadcast, because the camera stays fixed on the ball carrier. There's precisely the same problem with soccer. Unless you're already a true expert, you'll glean almost nothing of the tactics by watching a match on TV. Go to the stadium and you can finally see things like the positioning of defenders while their team has possession.
• jleyank 12y ago
  Obligatory xkcd: http://xkcd.com/1480/ http://xkcd.com/1480/ You can watch sports, or you can participate in the watching of sports. One requires real interest in the event while the other merely requires interest in who's nearby. People are different. I'm into some sports and can't stand others. But I like being social with friends, both F2F and online.
  • scott_s 12y ago
    I ordinarily dislike when people do this ("obligatory xcd: URL"), but that is today's comic. So it is actually relevant. Today.
    • delecti 12y ago
      There's also the fact that the parent comment went on beyond simply linking the relevant comic. Even being today's comic doesn't make it a useful comment if that's all you say.
    • soylentcola 12y ago
      At first when I saw this link posted on HN I assumed it was something about today's xkcd. Surprised to see it posted so far down to be honest.
• strictnein 12y ago
  I'm not a huge sports fan. I go to a couple baseball games a year, but I no longer watch any of the games on tv. I only watch the Super Bowl for the ads. The morning radio show I listen to is technically a "sports" show. It's pretty light on the actual sports and is mostly just stupidity, which I prefer in the morning (on the way home it's mostly NPR or music). Anyways, I glean enough sports info from the show to hold conversations with people who are really into sports. Being able to socialize with all types of people is a good trait to have.
• bkjelden 12y ago
  I really enjoyed reading this. I had a relatively blue collar american upbringing, but more or less since the day I left for college I've been predominately surrounded by people from white collar lifestyles, and this article really resonated with me. As illustrated in the article, the difference between the cab driver and the highly educated professional taking the cab is not as great as the latter would often like you to believe it is. Life is a lot easier when you stop pretending that things like sports or certain types of music are "below you".
  • eldavido 12y ago
    (American here) I'm not sure why we lionize "the common man" so much in the US. The entire subtext of the article is that (1) we should have a shared culture, (2) such a "shared national culture" should reflect the taste and values of the "middle class" and that (3) people of taste/affluence/etc. should make an effort to reach out to others in the name of "connection" or "bonding" or something else. I freely admit not being a "middle-class" American. From my cushy software job on the 11th floor in SF, I really don't have any idea what it's like to earn minimum wage, be a single parent, go to a country music concert, or eat at McDonald's. But I don't think any of this makes me "better" than anyone else, and I still treat people with respect, dignity, and compassion -- I just don't feel the sense of guilt or need to conform, that this article seems to espouse. I fight with my dad about this all the time, who works in a factory in Illinois, and loves reminding me how out-of-touch I am, even as he asks me what I think of Chicago sports, even though (1) I don't live in Illinois and (2) I don't like sports. ;)
• nlawalker 12y ago
  "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" - Eleanor Roosevelt Sports, in the context of the article, is 100% people and events. I don't necessarily agree with the quote, I just wanted to point out that the idea expressed here is the same. I don't think that intellectuals (to use the author's term) are necessarily disinterested in sports in general. However, it makes sense to me that that they would not be interested in news, drama and specific professional athletes and their performances and relationships. In many cases, that's all there is when it comes to using professional sports as a basis for making conversation or building rapport.
  • deleted 12y ago
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  • randcraw 12y ago
    Wow. That's a really great quote. It captures my social values perfectly, irrespective of sports, or my telling others what they should do. Yes, sports are all about immersing yourself in the earnest discussion of trivial minutiae. Maybe that's why intellectuals disdain it. It's a tempest in a TV set. But sports are also one of the very few venues which are: a) dramatic, b) can be shared with friends, foes, and strangers alike, c) fair, and d) largely unscripted. Sports are a kind of platonic ideal -- a pure meritocracy: where the cream rises to the top, where talent is rewarded, where justice is done, yet tragedy may strike. In today's heavily commercialized, overproduced, and politicized world, such fields of dreams are all too rare. Finally and maybe most important, sports play to the need we all have to cheer for for heros and heroics and to bathe in the glamour of their victory. Maybe the inescapably gladiatorial nature of sports competition also embarrasses the fine arts crowd?
  • JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    The neat thing about intellectuals criticizing things is, they can say it so well.
  • mindcrime 12y ago
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people What's the value in ideas unless the affect events or impact people? It's a nice pithy quote, but don't assign it any undue deference or respect.
• wavefunction 12y ago
  I enjoy playing sports but watching or following them is boring to me. I played a fair amount of sports in high-school as they were mandated, though you could satisfy the requirement with theater or theater-tech or "mathlete" style competition which I took part in a few times instead of my winter sport. That said, this may be a strategy for connecting with other people but there's all sorts of small-talk you can make with someone else, but it might involve some human vulnerability on your part. I make non-sports-related small-talk with pretty much anyone unless it's obvious they want to be left alone. I'd rather be talking to women anyways, and "talking sports" doesn't get you all that far.
  • wavefunction 12y ago
    And just for reference on my sports "bonafides" as unimpressive as they may be: I enjoy playing soccer and lacrosse. I varsity lettered in both all four years and was all-state in lacrosse. Once I hit college I just wasn't tall enough to play at the collegiate level.
• aaron-lebo 12y ago
  I think professional sports are the closest we have to real-life dramas, tragedies, or even comedies, and they have profound life lessons. I am a lifelong Dallas Cowboys fan. I grew up when they were a dynasty in the 90s, and at the time it seemed like going to the Super Bowl is something they were supposed to do every year. I cried after some tough losses. Sometimes I get into other local teams when they are doing well, and I've even tried to be interested in other football teams, but there's no team like the Cowboys for me. I can't feel the extreme joy nor anger or sadness when watching other teams. The best I can drum up is a "that's nice". It is actually easier watching other teams because I feel like I have much less invested. I didn't have to cultivate this interest, there is nothing logical about it. I realize this. Realizing this random illogical love in my life has helped me to look at a lot of things differently, like politics and parties. Ignoring those indirect effects (always realize when you are a homer about something) there is a great advantage if you can reach this level of interest: Once they stopped being dominant in the 90s, the Cowboys for years have been a team that look really good on paper, people pick them to win, and then they disappoint, often times in rage inducing ways. Being slightly younger, naive, and a homer, I'd always buy in. It didn't take until the last few years that I got their gimmick and as a passionate fan am sorry to say I didn't watch a number of games last year and/or turned them off at halftime. This year, they were picked buy experts to be very mediocre. The first game seemed to prove this. I turned if off after the 1st quarter as the 49ers were beating the hell out of them. Same old Cowboys. I couldn't help but to watch week 2 and a win over the hapless Titans. Then they went down 21-0 in week 3 against the Rams and I turned the TV off. Thankfully, my interest and a friend goaded me into turning the TV back on to watch them come all the way back and win. Week after week for the rest of the year they did this: fell behind and seemed destined for a loss, only to fight back and pull themselves to victory. And I, conditioned as I was to expect failure, continued to turn the TV off at moments, only to turn it back on and catch the comeback. This culminated in their wild card game against Detroit. At one point they went down 14-0. Same old Cowboys. Click. Then somewhere they found fight in them and with the benefit of a very questionable call were driving for a winning touchdown at the end of the game. Now I've seen this before. Flashbacks to January of 2008 when Jerry Jones put championship game tickets in the lockers of his players before they played the Giants, a team they had beaten twice already. But the Giants (who would win the Super Bowl) came to play, and at the end of the game Tony Romo found himself driving his team down for an apparent game winning touchdown. That time it wasn't meant to be. He threw and interception which was one of those plays which thus far has defined his legacy. Here he was in the Detroit game in a very similar situation. This time, though, he pulled it off. When he got knocked down as he threw that winning touchdown, the crowed erupted, and face down, he slammed his hands on the ground out of joy. Romo is a passionate guy, but I've never seen him like this. He knows he is running out of time, and he wants to win. As a long-suffering fan, the joy was just as great. The Boys ended up losing in Green Bay the next week, but I've though often about why I care about football so much and if I should. I like to be in control of my life. When you love a sports team, you are at the mercy of ownership, good or bad, players, bad breaks (sometimes literally), referees, etc. Why put yourself through all that emotion when you can't do anything about it? But really, that's life. Because as much as we'd like to think otherwise (especially the folks here which are smart, hard-working, independent, and often successful), there are a lot of things you just don't have control over in life. You can't control whether a competitor does or doesn't come along at the right time, you can't control whether a drunk driver blindsides you, you can't control who you meet or run into. Sports is like that, and sometimes it is good to take a step back, realize you can't control everything, and enjoy the ride. Sometimes you'll feel rage or sadness, but in that rare instance when a team, your team, proves everyone wrong, when it rewrites the script, when it does what it isn't supposed to do and wins, there isn't a feeling like like it. And when you see athletes who have worked their entire lives to get to a point and they finally achieve it, it is a rare feeling of empathy and pride that you can feel for a complete stranger. I saw it with Dirk Nowitzki when he won a title in 2011, and I hope to see it for Tony Romo one day as well. Hell, for people doing startups, or just living, athletes are the perfect sources of inspiration. The pressures they face, the pride, the struggle, the doubt, all is so similar. I've personally never been a Kobe Bryant fan, but last summer I read some articles about his work ethic, determination, and attitude, and I both respected him and it inspired me to better myself. Sports are incredibly valuable learning tools, aside from just the avenues they open up with others. And that really can't be overstated. I see too many computer-literate people shutting themselves off from others and culture. If you can't or don't connect with the majority of the population, what makes you think you can build something which will change the world? Granted, sports is just one of many avenues to connect with others, but it is a massive one, and one with lots of benefits. Finally, if you can't just fall in love with a team, there are other things to appreciate about sports. In baseball and basketball, I often get more interested in the process of building teams than watching teams play. There's magic in watching good GMs outwit everyone else and put together the right collection of players. There's magic in watching people like Billy Beane apply a rigorous methodological approach to try to build something (The Oakland As and Moneyball). If you can't love a team for love of sport, love it from that kind of logical angle. Maybe you'll end up loving the team for completely illogical reasons. I've said enough, maybe too much. I needed to unload those thoughts somewhere. Hope they help someone.
• msluyter 12y ago
  I've felt for a while that not knowing much about sports has been a huge liability. As in, sitting at lunch with co-workers locked out of the conversation because I didn't know anything. So, a couple of years ago, I had a sports-fanatic friend of mine sit with me through a few football games and explain everything that was happening. This unlocked my ability to relate to others (well, men). It was nothing short of revelatory. After a while though, my natural indifference reasserted itself and I never bothered to do what's necessary -- like subscribe to cable -- to stay abreast of things. As for the article, I would suggest that the cause of sports disinterest might not always be a form of cultural signaling (though I find that plausible.) In my case, it goes back to childhood, where I was terrible at all sports. After a while of getting made fun of, being picked last for teams, etc... I learned that sports were simply not for me.
  • city41 12y ago
    I was disinterested in all sports up until about 4 years ago when my boss randomly game me tickets to a hockey game. I found out I really like hockey and have been a big fan since. I think interest in sports is pretty healthy. But like all things, in moderation. But it's not so much about sports specifically, but rather having diverse interests is healthy.
• solson 12y ago
  When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and was a boxer. I love Ice Hockey, Football, UFC, NASCAR, Motocross, and heavy metal, but I am also an academic and an intellectual. Many highly educated people have told me so, I just don't have the paper to prove it. My oldest son is highly gifted earning math test scores putting him in the top tenth of one percent and placing 1st in regional Math Masters competitions. He also plays ice hockey so he interacts socially with the 'jocks' and the 'brains' preferring the company of the 'brains.' Most of his 'smart' friends show contempt for sports which is a social problem since he is an athlete. When a kids says, "Hockey. Meh. It is a bunch grown men with sticks chasing a black piece of rubber around a sheet of ice" he is saying in effect "What you love is obtuse and low brow and I don't care how that makes you feel." And that is just rude.
  • theoh 12y ago
    A lot of academia is bullshit, and it isn't always driven by snobbery, just naïveté. But in the light of massive and increasing financial inequality, nerds and academics are NOT the problem. The corporate CEO or jock lawyer who is sucking up all the money is very likely to be a sports fan like everyone else.
    • solson 12y ago
      I'd argue that the big money in education is contributing to financial inequality as much as any CEO or attorney.
      • theoh 12y ago
        Tuition in America is crazy, which is bad for social mobility, I agree, but professors and scientists are less than 2% of the top One Percent. They are completely swamped in numerical terms by the non-geeky categories of executives, medical, finance and law: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/28/who-actually-are-the-one-percent/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/28/who-actua...
• martythemaniak 12y ago
  I don't like the message of this post. I do understand (and see) the cultivated disinterest he's talking about, but I would never suggest you try and make yourself like something for the sole purpose of fitting in, ie cultivating disinterest is bad, but so is cultivating this interest. If you keep and open mind and follow your passions, you'll eventually stumble on something you share enough with others. My disinterest in football is quite genuine, but I enjoy the World Cup and Euro Cup. I also find it hilarious that intellectuals apparently don't go for Heavy Metal, because I'd fall in his "intellectual" category, but spent several years deeply engrossed in Metal and I enjoy the Nordic and Prog subtypes.
  • GigabyteCoin 12y ago
    >so is cultivating this interest. How so? Taking part in the things most inherent in your culture is arguably a good thing. It helps you keep in touch with the rest of the world. It helps you carry on and start up conversations with your peers. It's easier to "break the ice". It makes you feel more connected to society, which is something that I'm sure most of us sitting behind a computer screen 24/7 certainly could use more of.
    • seekingtruth 12y ago
      >Taking part in the things most inherent in your culture is arguably a good thing. Like being overweight? Eating fast food? Watching the latest wastes of time on the tubes? Because fuck everything about that. I do as I damn well please and spend my time on things that interest me. If that "alienates" losers, who cares? I have more to offer the average portly dimwitted plebian than they do me.
    • TeMPOraL 12y ago
      Even if you feel that deep disconnect with the society? I'm not sure how to describe that feeling precisely - but to give you an example: most people seem to like/watch soap operas, while I actively avoid them and prefer to watch sci-fi, which is shunned by general population. And the reason is, sci-fi series have a point. There's some reason for things, some grander goal, etc., whereas what I see in soap operas are random people making dramas around love, family and money. This, so called normal life, feels so empty and pointless. I'm not aiming to insult anyone here - what I'm saying is that I just don't grok "normal life". While I have enough empathy and perceptivity to be able to understand the life priorities of an average Joe (in my circles I'm the go-to guy if there's a conflict to fix or someone to cheer up), I don't feel them. I do feel disconnected from society, and honestly, I'm fine with that.
• chrischen 12y ago
  I have friends who aren't into sports, but follow e-sports as if it were a physical sport. I can't get into either though. I think it has more to do than intellectuals not liking spectating sports.
  • Rapzid 12y ago
    I'm the same way. I love playing sports personally. I'm more into individual sports like racket, cycling, etc, though I have played soccer and such way back. But I just can't really get into spectating and never had. For me I'd much rather be doing my own thing than watching somebody else do theirs; I lose interest pretty quickly. That includes both e-sports and physical sports. I'll enjoy the odd game day BBQ and beers with the guys though.
• bitwize 12y ago
  tl;dr everybody likes sports, and if you don't like sports than you're weird and might not really be human. Been hearing that since high school. Am sick of it. I literally can't be arsed to give a shit about sports. I know about football and baseball and can understand most sports-related metaphors, but I really don't have the energy to invest in knowing what the Patriots are doing. (Although I followed the Deflategate scandal with some amusement; where I live the Patriots are gods among men and I confess it's a bit nice to see their reputation, er, deflated.) So when I need to talk to "ordinary people", I fall back on other pop-culture referents, usually music and movies. Even trashy, mass market music and movies I can get into. Discussing Pokémon was once even a useful ice breaker -- in Japan.
  • clay_to_n 12y ago
    >tl;dr everybody likes sports, and if you don't like sports than you're weird and might not really be human That is absolutely NOT what the article states. The articles argument is basically "If you don't like sports, you might be condescending and exclusionary about it. Sports are a near universal conversation topic. If you try getting into them just for the social benefit, you might find you actually like them."
• loso 12y ago
  This article is right. A big appeal of sports is the camaraderie. As long as you don't take it too seriously its just all in fun. I follow a lot of people in tech on social media (mainly twitter) and while 90% its interesting and insightful when a big sporting event comes around I want to delete a lot of those people. It seems as if they get on a podium and decided that everyone watching said sport is an idiot. It makes them seem condescending. This isn't everyone I follow in tech but enough to get annoying. Terms I definitely know I will see Sunday on Twitter are "hand egg", "sports ball" followed by mocking of people watching the Super Bowl.
• jvvw 12y ago
  This may be different in the US but in the UK, I would say that small talk about sports, especially football, is much more common among men than women and I was surprised that the article didn't mention this. I've spent a lot of time in female company the last few years and sport is very rarely mentioned, whereas working for a tech company as nearly the only woman, I ended up learning lots about football just to not feel completely left out. We also have sports such as cricket which are probably a topic of conversation for the middle classes more than the working classes, but then class division is something that we've had centuries to refine!
  • pivo 12y ago
    I'm in the US and not a sports fan and I regularly find myself in groups where the topic of conversation is sports. It's a little uncomfortable for me because it's assumed that all men are sports fans in my city (Boston). My girlfriend recently cultivated an interest in sports so that she could fit in better with her predominately male colleagues. It seems to have worked for her. I can't tell for sure how much she actually enjoys it vs. how much she enjoys watching some play that she knows she'll will be a topic of conversation at work.
• baddox 12y ago
  > Several years ago, I was at a talk by Michael Albert at MIT where he chastised American intellectuals for what he claimed was cultivated disdain of professional sports. Is that a thing? I've certainly never noticed it from the outside looking in on American intellectualism, or from my more direct experience with educated acquaintances. My own take is that I enjoy athletic excellence, but disdain the laughably irrational fandom that almost always overwhelms any gathering or discussion involving major televised sports. When there is a controversial judgement made by referees, why is there such a strong correlation because the team you support and the way you think the call should have gone? Why is it always the team you support that the announcers and referees are biased against? It's just so inane and boring that I have zero interest participating in it.
  • TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Indeed. My dislike for sports is twofold - for one, I suck at it (wearing glassess at the age of 10 didn't help in becoming a good soccer player, especially goalkeeper), and I find it boring. Though I'm aware this is something easily changed when one starts playing more. But the second issue I have is an issue with the culture around professional sport, which is exactly as you described. It highlights the worst aspects of humans - extreme irrationality and willingness to go to a conflict over a completely arbitrary things. I strive to avoid participating in that.
• ssalazar 12y ago
  People tend to view football as a bunch of dumb lugs pushing each other around, but theres crazy amounts of raw physical strength, finesse, and smarts involved. Each play might involve linemen pushing defenders one way or another to mislead them just long enough to let the ball carrier run through. Watching a great run play unfold is truly amazing, especially at the professional level where the players are basically freaks of nature/superhuman. Then theres the Odell Beckham catch from earlier this year which is just an insane feat of athleticism: http://www.gfycat.com/PointedKindheartedAtlanticsharpnosepuffer http://www.gfycat.com/PointedKindheartedAtlanticsharpnosepuf... 2 years ago I thought football was stupid. Then I started actually watching it and realized theres a lot more to it than I gave it credit for. Now I highly anticipate the start of each season.
  • TeMPOraL 12y ago
    I think you might be onto something. I still find sport boring, though I recall my interest in soccer increasing when I was learning things about game strategies. Maybe simply some of us derive pleasure from the aspects that are non-obvious first time you watch a match on TV.
    • taternuts 12y ago
      I find that unless you've played football, it's one of those sports where it can be kind of hard to recognize great play at the line and other positions that aren't featured as heavily as the QB/RB/WR's. The truth is though that at that level there is always 100x more stuff going on than you could possibly imagine; how far someone is leaning forward, if their right foot is slightly ahead of their left, where their center of gravity is relative to their normal stance, what moves were tried in previous situations and how will that affect what they try now given what I think I/we am/are showing? When I played sports at a high level, I always regarded my ability to think quickly and break down situations further than my competition in the moment as to what made me effective. There's a fair amount of slower freak athletes in the NFL that don't need to win the mental battles as much because they are just so much better physically and nothing can counter-act that, but there's also a ton of really smart guys studying their ass off for that slight edge and beating the bigger, stronger, faster with it. Then there's guys who do both like JJ Watt
• golemotron 12y ago
  I won't deny that there's a cultural aspect but I've never been into team sports for the same reason I'm not into religion. When I was a kid I realized that thinking your home team is better than everyone else's is something that happens just because of where you are. It's the reason why people believe that Jesus is better than Buddha or Mohammed also, or any other ordering of those three. Teams sports amplify and dignify an "us versus them" dynamic. I think that part of us is one of the most problematic aspects of our nature.
  • aaron-lebo 12y ago
    The other side of that coin is to realize that who you are, where you came from, what you believe often (but not always especially in the last case) is something you have no control over. Sports is the perfect example of this in that you can and should take great pride and joy in everything that makes you, you, but also realize that there's someone on the other side of the TV screen that has the same reasons for taking pride and loving who they are. If you can both do that and appreciate the other for that, and not hate them because of it, then you've got it right.
    • dinkumthinkum 12y ago
      So does your reasoning break down when you have people that like sports teams for reasons other than locality?
      • aaron-lebo 12y ago
        Not at all. Your passion for something is obviously not tied down to locality.
  • dinkumthinkum 12y ago
    The whole discussion here is about intellectuals not liking sports but of all these supposed intellectuals here in not seeing a lot of intellectual reasoning. Rooting for a team is not the same as believing the universe is actually based on some particular religion, I don't think we can equivocate the two at all.
• BurgerEarmuffs 12y ago
  Thank zeus for this article. Sports is a 4 letter word in a lot of social circles (academia, tech to a decent extent) and it usually just reeks of pretentiousness. I find myself having to be unusually careful not to bring up sports when talking to anyone in tech I don't know well, whereas I rarely have that issue outside of it. Congratulations, you dismissed the entirety of American football as "roid rage violence". You also have an encyclopedic knowledge of internet memes, so I'm not sure I really trust your judgement vis a vis what qualifies as a worthwhile endeavor. > Sports aren't intellectual > Sports talk is glorified tabloid talk Go to a sabermetrics conference and prepare to be baffled. Nate Silver got his start as a baseball writer. > Sports are overly violent So is GTA 5. Watching sports doesn't make a person any more violent than playing video games does. Sports-related violence is semi-frequent and deplorable, but blaming sports for causing drunken boorish behavior is just like blaming Doom for Columbine. Most professional athletes are well aware of what they're getting into these days [1], so I don't buy arguments about "protecting the athletes" as a reason to ban sports entirely either (augmenting the rules to decrease injury rates, sure, absolutely). > I'm not going to pretend to like something I don't like That's fine. Just don't be a pretentious asshole about it. I can't even begin to count the number of times a conversation has navigated to sports one way or another, and some jackass decides to one-up the group by going on a 5 minute monologue about how ignorant they are of sports because they're too busy with "intellectual pursuits". [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JMsWtObHhE#t=30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JMsWtObHhE#t=30s
  • JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    I understand, label nerds as pretentious and jackasses, because they dis your favorite subject. Welcome to the nerd club. You think its tiresome having somebody try to make you look stupid for liking that stuff? Imagine living it, from the age of 12 through 25. Its fucking exhausting. So give techies a break already.
    • BurgerEarmuffs 12y ago
      "This happened to me growing up so now I get to do it to you"? What a wonderful message for the children.
• callmeed 12y ago
  If being into sports is a conscious decision, you're probably not really into sports. Maybe I'm reading between the lines incorrectly but this post has an air of condescension and elitism. The white-collar, academic author decides to like sports because another white-collar, academic told him it was good for him. It almost feels like he chose to like sports to assuage some form of guilt. Maybe I'm wrong and this is just normal for people in academia, I don't know. At least he's a Patriots fan ;)
  • mjlangiii 12y ago
    It may feel like that but we don't know his true motive. I'll take him at his word that he is seeking an avenue by which to build real relationships with people. For example, if your spouse has an interest, you declined to share it until you realize it could bring you closer together, and then you pursue her interest with her then who am I to say you aren't really into it? Just like you can develop a taste for IPA beer you can develop a true enjoyment of football. I think your point is better taken as, this is a good idea but be careful not to misuse or misunderstand it's goal.
• disputin 12y ago
  I have no interest in ball games. I enjoy Formula 1, some MotoGp, and some some cycling. My interest in Formula 1 used to be primarily strategy, but not anymore and I'm not sure when it changed - maybe refuelling, or moving everyone onto the same tyres. There's is nothing cultivated about my disinterest in ball games. If I did have an interest in football/soccer then I would cultivate a disinterest because I wouldn't support something so regularly in the news for corruption. My first live football/soccer game was one of the biggest let downs of my life - I sat there dumbfounded that anyone could be interested. I found the live games look better the further up I sat in the stands, and the bigger the stadium, but still no interest. I went to a rugby final something or other (Wasps vs Leicester?) and fell asleep. There is no chance of me following them just to have small talk with someone, I can work around that.
• nickbauman 12y ago
  If you're learning about sports to "connect" with people using "small talk", assert your motivation is elitist anyway. "Working class people" are very capable of talking about things other than sports. Yet one of the reasons pro sports is so popular with "working class people" is that thinking about the issues that really affect them (rationally) is depressing. That thing about bread and circuses is real. So I deliberately make small talk with people about things that could actually matter to them, like, where their tax money is being spent. (Oh, and since when is a STEM job not working class?)
  • civilian 12y ago
    I'm with you. There's a whole world out there, it's not hard to find other shared interests. ... although it did get awkward when a Lyft driver opened up enough to start telling me about financial astrology. Fascinating, but awkward.
• graeme 12y ago
  I played sports in school, and have no problem understanding them. But watching sports doesn't interest me. This doesn't seem to cause me problems. I can talk to working class people about other topics easily. I also have no reason to go around bashing sports, so this helps I'm sure. One thing I've noticed is that it does block me from being close friends with certain men. Because their favorite leisure activity is watching a lot of sports with friends. That's far too high a commitment for me since I truly dislike watching sports on TV.
  • Aloisius 12y ago
    This matches my experience as well. I still enjoy playing certain sports, but watching them, especially on TV, bores me to tears. It always has. It has certainly affected bonding with other men as well.
  • Rapzid 12y ago
    Same experience here. I've rotated through a few number of personal sports into adult land though. That really helps because you'll find others that similarly enjoy what you're doing and don't care for watching sports either. Good exercise too. Stuff like cycling and rock climbing are particularly good cause it makes sense to go on road trips.
• samspot 12y ago
  I used to have the attitude he mentioned, and when my eyes opened, I rejected it. Then I forced myself to watch American Football for a season. I actually had a good time. But I just couldn't really get into it. Problem is that when I have free time, I typically prefer to spend it doing other things. Not having cable doesn't help matters either. Maybe I'll give it another shot. It seems worth it to be able to connect to more people.
  • lkowalcz 12y ago
    Maybe try joining a Fantasy Football league with some of your friends? Doing this will greatly improve your enjoyment because you will be invested in the performance of the players / teams on your fantasy team.
    • samspot 12y ago
      Yeah, that's exactly what I did, with coworkers. Sorry I didn't mention it. Nobody does them at the new job, I think it might be banned :(
• acadien 12y ago
  We can talk about music, politics (civilly), travel, technology, relationships, family, friends, books, TV... but since we can't talk about sports that is somehow a problem? If you're interested in sports go for it, if you're not then avoid them. Making conversation and forming new relationships with people has nothing to do with watching football.
• themensch 12y ago
  To quote a wise man, "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."
• grandalf 12y ago
  I've tried multiple times to become interested in spectator sports. To date the only ones I find even mildly interesting are: - NBA Finals basketball - World Series of Poker - UFC Football is slow-paced and disheartening b/c of all the drives that end with a punt. Baseball is slow-paced. Hockey is OK but after a watching for 10 minutes I start to get board. Tennis and Golf are both extremely frustrating as well. I love to participate in Amateur Radio Radiosport and have done quite well at it, and also love SCUBA and snowboarding but not in a competitive way (watching or participating). So I guess it's a mystery to me how people can find mainstream sports so worth sinking time/energy into. If I were in sales I'd certainly glance at the sports page now and then.
  • matwood 12y ago
    Golf in particular was hard to watch on TV until I started playing golf. The concentration required to hit near perfect shots over and over across 4 days is insane. The other beauty of golf is that almost anyone can go out and hit that perfect shot once and relate just a bit. Golf is also very easy to handicap between skill levels making it easy for various people to play together (my wife and I can 'compete' with the handicap in place). Football is the perfect party/passive sport. There is so much downtime you can have entire conversations and still watch the game. I do not know what the stats are now, but the NFL has done a lot to give the offense the advantage and up the scoring. The problem I have with the NFL on TV is not showing the full 22. When you watch that view you see how little margin of error there is during the game. The QB looking left a 1/2 second sooner and a sack could have been a TD and vice versa.
  • balls187 12y ago
    > - UFC If you have a chance, I recommend going to a live local MMA show. They're a lot of fun.
• blacksmith_tb 12y ago
  For someone who sets out to change their social interactions, the author is surprisingly not very aware of dynamics at work here. The 'disdainful academics' are maintaining social boundaries just as much as the fans of a local team. Of course they go to great lengths to explain that to each other, they are actively maintaining that boundary. Whether or not you personally like or dislike sports, (or 'the other team') is very different from social displays which assert your allegiances. I do think there's something to be said for refusing to conform, however - whether that's telling your fellow academics they're missing out, or telling folks at the bar that professional sports are a lot less fun that throwing a ball around in the park.
• bglazer 12y ago
  I'm not sure how I feel about this article. On the one hand, it had a weird highbrow tone. It reads a bit like an ivory tower academic discovering what "the poors" are up to. Some choice quotes: "Albert suggested that sports reflect the go-to topic for small talk and building rapport across class and context" "Sports are popular because people, in general, find them fun to watch". No shit! Lots of people like sports. Did you really need to go to a talk at MIT to figure that out? On the other hand, I applaud the author for challenging the social conventions of the people around him. Disdain for sports is pointless social signalling that is ultimately divisive. Another quote, that I particularly like: "This ignorance among highly educated people limits our ability to communicate, bond, and build relationships across different segments of society. It limits our ability to engage in conversations and build a common culture that crosses our highly stratified and segmented societies" Edit: I would also like to add one perspective that is perhaps more appealing to the intellectual crowd: Sports are a magnificent showcase of kinesiology at the highest level. The same people who scoff at football probably also marvel at the latest ATLAS robot from Boston Dynamics, which is a poor analogue of the human machines on display in any high level sporting event. I could give a dozen examples. Anything from hitting a baseball thrown at 90 mph to ice-skating to a running back evading tackles. I can't believe we take this for granted. Imagine bipedal robots powered by ham sandwiches that have visual/control systems capable of tracking objects thrown through the air and leaping to catch them, all while evading attackers and coordinating with team mates.
  • nitrogen 12y ago
    Disdain for sports is pointless social signalling that is ultimately divisive. So is participation in sports. People don't dislike sports because they were born that way; they dislike them because they didn't like the effect they had on e.g. their high school or college.
    • Retra 12y ago
      Some people want to cheer for academic bookish stuffiness and boo the low-brow jockiness of field games. If that isn't what sports is all about, then what is it about?
• thisjepisje 12y ago
  What if I don't like sports?
• mynegation 12y ago
  For a context: I emigrated from Europe to North America as an adult. I used to watch hockey and football (soccer) growing up and know the rules and mildly enjoy watching an occasional game. And I can totally relate to the issue of missing opportunities for smalltalk because of my lack of interest in typical North American sports: american football and baseball. Not that I cultivated disinterest, it is just I did not grow up with it and right now getting to know the rules and intricacies of theses games seems too much of a hassle. I am thinking of getting to know American Football, more for socializing than anything. Baseball is probably a lost cause for me.
• ggreer 12y ago
  I don't follow sports, but I also don't go around professing my ignorance. If someone changes the topic to sports, I still engage with them. I ask questions, and they're usually happy to answer. A couple days ago, someone delighted in telling me the story of Marshawn Lynch. (I had to look up the name, but I did remember his antics with the press.) Having common ground with more people is not a bad argument for learning about sports. But I do have some qualms with the author's decision. First, I cannot stress this enough: American football is an odious sport. Players regularly suffer concussions, traumatic brain injuries, and joint trauma. Permanent and debilitating injuries are common. The average player lasts 3.5 years in the NFL. Then they are spat out and left to deal with a lifetime of health issues. Yes, players freely choose their profession. So what? The same argument can be used to defend dueling. Football is bad and people should feel guilty watching it. If you're going to watch a popular sport, watch baseball. But really, what's so bad about being out of touch with most Americans? Why draw the line at political borders? By population, vastly more people love cricket or soccer than American football. I don't mind being out of touch with sports enthusiasts regardless of their country of origin. If you're like me and you spend most of your time with people who aren't interested in sports, there's no point in learning about football or baseball. You already have common ground. Is that living in a bubble? Yes. I like living in a bubble. Economist Bryan Caplan explains the position better than I can.[1] 1. http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/03/my_beautiful_bu.html http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/03/my_beautiful_bu....
  • justin66 12y ago
    > American football is an odious sport. Players regularly suffer concussions, traumatic brain injuries, and joint trauma. Permanent and debilitating injuries are common. In Europe, spectators suffer those while watching football.
  • wtbob 12y ago
    > Yes, players freely choose their profession. So what? The same argument can be used to defend dueling. I think that duelling should be legal, for that same reason. Likewise, football and boxing should be legal: the participants have chosen to engage in them; why shouldn't the spectators enjoy the spectacle?
• ryanisnan 12y ago
  Why is this on HN?
  • jedsomers 12y ago
    ...not sure. could make the argument that HN attracts more 'intellectuals/non-sports fans', if we're making that classification. And therefore it's a topic of universal interest here (not that that makes it topical) worth noting though, that the separation of the two groups [educated/non-sports] and [sports] is probably related to cost of activities ($basketball < $computers or tutors) and also related to the simple probability that top x% intellectuals and top x% athletes aren't likely to overlap. Everyone in-between is then forced to pick sides/friends...and sports-talk is super social/accessible.
• kleer001 12y ago
  I dislike sports because it's watching as opposed to doing.
• tessierashpool 12y ago
  Cognitive dissonance: the phrase "cultivated disinterest" precedes the sentence "With a little effort, getting into sports is easy." I'm not saying that looking down on people for their interests isn't small-minded or awful. But I definitely disagree with the idea that you have to cultivate a lack of interest in a topic. Also, consider this instead: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case... As a first-generation American, the fact that you're more likely to pay for college with a sports scholarship than an academic one seems completely insane to me.
• te_platt 12y ago
  This doesn't just apply to sports. Most people don't share my enthusiasm for math and science but most people are enthusiastic about something. I enjoy asking people what they do for fun, or about an interesting (to them) project they may be working on. Almost any topic can be interesting when explained by someone with the right passion. Even if I don't especially care about a given topic it's not too much work to appreciate why someone else might, which is a good way to avoid being a snobbish jerk.
• climatewarrior2 12y ago
  That's all fine and dandy, I've never had an interest in watching sports on TV and I would rather spend my CPU cycles in other stuff. Time is a precious resource and I have other priorities and other hobbies/interests for which I actually care. That said, I do enjoy watching live games and occasionally playing some sports with friends.
• awkward 12y ago
  As someone who doesn't like sports, who grew up in an environment where sports were very prominent, going to college and having the opportunity to dismiss popular sports, call it sportsball, and actually connect with people on that was a breath of fresh air, and felt like a goddamn treasure at the time. Now that I'm not 18 anymore, I can see where this article is coming from. I don't have the luxury of only talking to people in my peer group, and I've learned a little bit from sports about how to get excited from other people's excitement. Still, I feel like I had to leave an environment where sports were Mandatory Fun to get that enjoyment.
• mundizzle 12y ago
  i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might have some idea of doing something about. And in fact it's striking to see the intelligence that's used by ordinary people in [discussions of] sports [as opposed to political and social issues]. I mean, you listen to radio stations where people call in -- they have the most exotic information [more laughter] and understanding about all kind of arcane issues. And the press undoubtedly does a lot with this. You know, I remember in high school, already I was pretty old. I suddenly asked myself at one point, why do I care if my high school team wins the football game? [laughter] I mean, I don't know anybody on the team, you know? [audience roars] I mean, they have nothing to do with me, I mean, why I am cheering for my team? It doesn't mean any -- it doesn't make sense. But the point is, it does make sense: it's a way of building up irrational attitudes of submission to authority, and group cohesion behind leadership elements -- in fact, it's training in irrational jingoism. That's also a feature of competitive sports. I think if you look closely at these things, I think, typically, they do have functions, and that's why energy is devoted to supporting them and creating a basis for them and advertisers are willing to pay for them and so on." http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/1992----02.htm http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/1992----02.htm
  • serve_yay 12y ago
    I think the situation is worse -- people want to look away, they want to be distracted. It's not foisted on them. (I include myself here, for what it's worth)
  • guelo 12y ago
    I totally agree with Chomsky. It is indoctrination. I always found the routine military displays especially troubling. The American version of the communist dictator's military parade. And then there's the weird government/corporate partnership on stadiums. And the protected monopoly status.
• wdhilliard 12y ago
  I recognize the prevalance of sports in society. I still can not recognize the importance. You might think that is a rude statement if you like sports. You might also think that "Kim Kardashian (and the things she does) are not important" is a rude statement if you like celebrity gossip. Personally I don't see much difference between the two. I do however find it more rude that people won't ask me personal questions or feign interest in my hobbies, yet sports fans find no problem with going out to a bar and talking about nothing else for the entirety of their stay. Have you ever hung out with a group of coworkers who worked for a company that you don't work for? Did they talk about their job the entire time? Was it incredibly boring? That is how non-sports fans feel every time one of their friends starts talking about last week's game. To clarify, I understand sports just fine. I still do not enjoy them. How does this possibly make ME a dick? If you think that the best way to relate to people is to discuss their hobbies, you have really only scratched the surface of human interaction.
• Tenhundfeld 12y ago
  Meh, this is not a problem that needs addressing. When people say they "don't like sports," what they often mean is that they don't follow any teams. I played baseball growing up, still play tennis and row. I "understand" the rules of most sports – except cricket but c'mon. I can have a good time drinking a pint with friends and listening to them discuss sports. In fact, my ignorance often leads to great conversations, as they explain some backstory about how the wide receivers played on rival college teams or the history of nation's soccer team or whatever. It's fun. Sports are inherently dramatic, and it's easy to be drawn into an evenly matched contest. Given the right context and group of peers who are passionate about the outcome, pretty much everybody will enjoy watching sports. However, I just find the whole process of following a team to be a colossal waste of time. All of the time spent reading about drafts and trades and injuries and stats, they add up to hours every week – even without watching any games. I personally would much rather be cooking or reading a novel or playing video games or hiking. Some people would find those things to be a colossal waste of time. That's okay. There's no reason for us all to be so defensive about what we like and don't like. I like sports, but I choose to spend my free time on other things. That doesn't make my hobbies better or worse than Joe Football's. Just different. End of story.
  • xxxyy 12y ago
    Often it just means they don't follow any teams, but not always. I, for instance, don't care for any sports at all. I'm not even interested in learning the rules, unless I play the sport myself. Same goes for some of my friends.
• stesch 12y ago
  Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
• markc 12y ago
  Anyone else wish people would stick with "disinterested" == "impartial" rather than "disinterested" == "uninterested"? Yeah, I know, language changes, so deal. I guess so, but is there no value in fighting the tide of sloppiness? Where do you draw the line? Probably way too late on this one.
• gdulli 12y ago
  Sports will always fill a niche in that it's the one type of entertainment that's truly live and not predictable. Drama is predictable in a way that sports aren't. Seeing it live doesn't change that. Live theater has benefits and may be enjoyable, but it doesn't address predictability. Even if the viewer doesn't know the outcome, the outcome is fixed. And it falls within a predictable range of acceptable usually-happy endings. (Not strictly, but very commonly.) Drama is great, of course, I love it. But sports does offer something different to complement it. Sports has some outcomes that are narrow (win vs. lose) and others that are open-ended (the arc of a player's career, a unique play that's never been seen, off-the-field drama.) They couldn't be predictable or else betting on sports wouldn't be sustainable. You have to get yourself to care about an outcome in order for its unpredictability to be interesting, and I can see how it seems contrived that anyone would care, but the point isn't to take it seriously. (I guess you could call improv also live and not predictable, or find other more obscure examples.)
• delecti 12y ago
  I assure you, I did not need to cultivate my disinterest in professional sports. Also, any disdain I have for the subject is entirely centered around the fans. Sports fans have a tendency to assume that everyone is a sports fan, and act accordingly. I don't shame anyone for not liking board games, don't shame me for not caring about whatever latest playoff is going on. Also, when delays in my commute can be directly attributable to a specific event, you can bet I'm going to develop negative feelings towards it.
• josephjrobison 12y ago
  I played (American) football from 2nd grade to 12th grade and although I wasn't the best, I loved it. I was also an AP/IB student so the two circles didn't really overlap. But now I only follow a bit of college football and the playoffs for the NFL. I still love playing the sport, but I feel it's very unproductive to sit and watch for 3-10 hours every weekend, that's the main reason I don't get into it enough and can't keep up with the stats and news that coworkers and friends rattle off during the day. I do agree with the premise of this article, that to communicate with more people, we should put 1% of the effort into following sports as we do into building businesses or progressing career wise. Something I've always thought about, refreshing piece.
• al2o3cr 12y ago
  "But they provide an easy — and enjoyable — way to build common ground with our neighbors and fellow citizens that transcend social boundaries." They also provide hundreds of millions of dollars in profits to a tiny group of people while permanently injuring players both physically and mentally. Then there's the massive transfers of taxpayer money to build stadia that sometimes NEVER turn a profit, the domestic abuse, the culture of covering up sexual assault, the homophobia, the long and troubled racial history... Seriously, fuck sportzball. As a new way to "build common ground", try actually being a human.
• arprocter 12y ago
  Cheering for Team I Hate Sports is still cheering
• Estragon 12y ago
  My indifference is not cultivated. It comes from a native disdain of authoritarianism and tribalism. Not sure why it would be desirable to make small talk with people about uninteresting things. I do enjoy some heavy metal, though.
• jcromartie 12y ago
  I think the problem that many geeks have with sports is the tribalism and the blind devotion. We have a lower tolerance for religious fanaticism, even barring the distro and editor wars. "Your" team won? Really? In what sense are they your team? Are you the coach? Are you a player? Or is it just because your parents were fans, or you grew up near them, or they won last year? When programmers engage in these kind of religious wars about their languages or text editors (other than in a tongue-in-cheek way) they are considered rude and antisocial neckbeards. But somehow it's rude or antisocial to not get behind this massive time, energy, and money sink that makes a few people fabulously wealthy?
  • ashark 12y ago
    Exactly my problem with it. I can't understand truly serious fandom for a pro team, or even for college teams since they're recruited specifically for the sport much the same way pro teams are. I could understand it if it were tongue-in-cheek, as you write, just for fun's sake, but it's usually not, as best I can tell. Many of these fans are quite serious. They'll get no-joking pissed off at people over this stuff. They'll really initially dislike anyone they meet from $rivalCity. It's crazy. Being a fan of a truly local team makes sense to me. A pro team? Not in a "ha-ha we're all in on the joke isn't this fun" sort of way? Mind boggling.
• breadbox 12y ago
  I have always assumed that, like most geeks, disinterest in sports was not so much "cultivated" as it was a kneejerk reaction to the fact that the football players were the people making my life miserable every fucking day in public school. A huge chunk of my disinterest in certain genres of music (e.g. heavy metal) come from the same wellspring. Of course high school was many years ago for me and I have moved on with my life. But until a strong-enough counterforce is applied, football (and Led Zeppelin) will continue to elicit a vaguely negative response.
• PaulHoule 12y ago
  I would say a cultivated disinterest is not really a disinterest. At one point in my life I had access to a TV transmitter and an input to the head end of a cable system so I did some "Captain Midnight" things and I learned very quickly that you don't mess with people's sports any more than you mess with an animal's food. Every so often I put new batteries in my TV-B-Gone and my experience with that is that people rarely care (and might even cheer) if you turn off CNN, the Weather Channel, CNBC, the Cartoon Network or even ESPN Sports Center but it is part of my personal code that I will never turn off a game. Rational or not, sports mean a lot to people and you've got to respect that. Personally I don't seek out a lot of pro sports but I watch the Superbowl every year and I am definitely excited to see the Pats in it. When I am visiting friends or out and about I definitely enjoy watching a game.
• mindcrime 12y ago
  Bethany Bryson, a sociologist at JMU has shown that increased education is associated with increased inclusiveness in musical taste (i.e., highly educated people like more types of music) but that these people are most likely to reject music that is highly favored by the least educated people. Her paper’s title sums up the attitude: "Anything But Heavy Metal". This is hilarious given that there have been studies showing that metal fans are smarter than non-metal fans! At any rate, the idea that interest in heavy-metal marks one as "working class" or "non-intellectual" is totally absurd. But, then again, so is the idea that "intellectual" and "working class" are disjoint sets. (Yes, you can define either or both terms to create that distinction, but it's clearly not true when using the vernacular / intuitive definition for both). As far as sports... I have never understood the attitude some self-styled "intellectuals" have in regards to sports. There is a tremendous amount of benefit to be gained from participating in sports of various types, and if one participates in a sport at an amateur level, it follows that one's passion for that sport would extend to wanting to watch the highest level competitors compete with each other. I suppose the analogy would make sense to the "intellectual" set if you just defined chess as a sport. :-)
• pekk 12y ago
  I don't have to cultivate a disinterest in anything. I just don't care. There's no cultivation.
• ada1981 12y ago
  Historically, as empires near collapse there becomes an obsession with sport, food and celebrity.
• AceJohnny2 12y ago
  I was wondering if Ben was reiterating an old point of his. Nope, this is his same post from 2012. May be worth changing the title to highlight that.
• zephl 12y ago
  The level of analysis of sport in many venues is quite interesting. Take Zach Lowe @grantland on the NBA for instance: http://grantland.com/contributors/zach-lowe/ http://grantland.com/contributors/zach-lowe/
• mathattack 12y ago
  The disdain I have for sports is letting an external event (like a team of free agents branded by my hometown losing) impact my happiness. That said, I love going to a baseball game outdoors. It's like a happy hour that happens to have live action.
• kulak 12y ago
  To my ears, this "cultivated disinterest" label comes off as something of a cheap stereotype. Simply put, not everyone who lacks interest in professional sports nurtures a "cultivated distinterest" in the subject, nor are we driven by some need to display this disinterest as some kind of marker of class rank or intellectual superiority. We simply lack interest in the subject, period. And when pressed on the subject, I never use language that conveys any sense that I think others are stupid or shallow for being interest in professional sports. If anything I just say, kind of sheepishly, "You know, I actually don't follow professional sports", or something to that effect. And surprisingly, this kind of honesty has, itself, sparked interesting conversations with people, on several occasions.
  • toby 12y ago
    I think what he's referring to is people who are proud of their ignorance, which it doesn't sound like you are doing. You've certainly encountered people who believe saying things like "Oh, I don't even know who Kim Kardashian is" or "I haven't read a book since college" is bragging.
    • WalterBright 12y ago
      Or my favorite "say that in English".
    • guard-of-terra 12y ago
      I really enjoy "I'm not into Pokémon".
    • jpindar 12y ago
      Or the disingenuous "oh, is there a football game this week" - which they are only saying as a response to hearing people talk about the game all week.
  • sirmarksalot 12y ago
    I know a lot of people who take their lack of interest in sports as a point of pride. I've been in bars where everybody immediately starts cheering after some amazing play, and my table gets up and ironically yells "FOOTBALL!" I still think it's amusing, but there's definitely an element of elitism to it.
• robg 12y ago
  I was trained as a scientist in Pittsburgh. The Steelers taught me far more about the city and its people than any experiment I ran or article I read.
  • zenciadam 12y ago
    How to rape a woman in a public restroom and not get caught?
• wcummings 12y ago
  The barrier isn't understanding of sports, or even dedicating time to them. The barrier is that I'm not presented with an interesting narrative. I'm not invested in anyone winning, so it's not interesting.
• jplahn 12y ago
  I find this a fascinating topic to think about because I've had so much experience with it. Sports have been a significant part of my life ever since I was in 1st grade. I played several varsity sports throughout high school and had opportunities for scholarships in two different sports. One of those sports was golf and I find that it elicits the opposite response in a way that I hate (but also understand). When I've been at interviews for Google, Facebook, Amazon, wherever, I inevitably talk about sports with the other undergrads that are interviewing with me. In an effort to avoid the perception that I'm some sort of country club WASP, I rarely mention that I played extremely high level golf throughout high school. I fear that it won't fit into the "culture" of various places that I've applied to and likely won't mesh with those I'm talking to. So instead, I let my "hipster"-ish clothing, love of post-hardcore metal, and interest in all books not found on the NYT Bestseller list, craft whatever perception people may have of me. But despite this, I can talk about the NBA and NFL with the best of them and I'm getting to the point where I don't care what people think because I've found it's too hard to worry about it. If I want to go throw some iron over my head 4 times a week and people consider me a meathead, so be it. But it's a whole lot easier to have them think that than to try to hide it for ridiculous reasons.
• siegecraft 12y ago
  Let me just quote Bob Ryan for a moment (a great, old school sportswriter -- another reason to enjoy sports is that there are some great writers in that field) "Literature, music, art, film, theatre and sport are ALL part of a fulfilling leisure time life. Each pushes a specific emotional button"
• kolbe 12y ago
  I've found myself in a much different position WRT sports: I can't talk about it and not be a completely out-of-touch nerd. And it actually is a problem. People do like talking about sports, but you'd be surprised at how few really care about sports. When I like something I get into it: Bayesian systems, predictive analytics, disregarding common assumptions. Most people just don't want to talk about sports in that way.
• dap 12y ago
  When people say they don't care about sports, it sounds to me as ludicrous as if they said they don't care to watch movies or read fiction. On some level, those are all reasonable choices. But they all involve summarily rejecting an important medium for the telling of interesting and valuable human stories. In the field of music, theater, films, literature, and sports, I don't think sports is really that different from the others in terms of its capacity for telling valuable stories about human experience.
  • tbirdz 12y ago
    As someone who doesn't care about sports, care to watch movies, or read fiction, you must find me quite ludicrous :)
• boyaka 12y ago
  Reading this discussion feels like just as much a waste of time as following sports. I think it's hard and pointless to make any conclusions about the reasons people are stubbornly disinterested in mainstream entertainment. Whether somebody is truly disinterested or trying to be disinterested because they believe they are above the lowly peasants...who really cares? At least the article itself isn't too difficult to get through. From his list, number 3 is the one that jumped out at me: "Interest in sports can expand or shrink to fill the time you’re willing to give it" I'm skeptical about the "shrink" part. The main problem I have with sports is how swallowed up some people and society in general can be. There was a recent discussion on HN about books and how impossible it is to be able to read everything that's important within your lifetime. Now, I don't even read books (yet), and I'm certainly not a good role model for spending my time wisely. But I guess there's no problem with people spending time on whatever makes them happy, and if the time people put into sports makes them that happy, so be it. I think it would be better for everybody, however, if we focused more on improving our lives in the long run. Have some more discipline. On the other hand, I think it's great to be "open minded". Give everything and everybody a chance to be worth your attention. It reduces ignorance.
• skidoo 12y ago
  Alan Watt nailed it long ago: http://youtu.be/C6hiMLQs50E http://youtu.be/C6hiMLQs50E
• robbrown451 12y ago
  Ick. I remember when I was younger trying to enjoy following sports teams, and caring about who won a game. I really tried. Once I accepted that I just didn't give a crap about any of it, it doesn't affect me which team wins, and I don't have to pretend to care, it was like a giant weight lifted off me.
• TulliusCicero 12y ago
  Watching sports is a perfectly fine method of entertainment on its own, but I have two problems with it as a whole: 1. Dominance of sports culture is distracting to students in high school and college, and acts as a money sink. Playing sports is great, but I'm not sure why we subsidize it so much (talking about competitive teams here, not intramurals/PE). 2. The degree to which many people (obviously not most sports watchers, but a substantial minority) are obsessed with sports and tie up their identity in a given team is just insane. People will legit get angry about their team losing or having bad calls or whatnot, to the extent that sports riots or getting in fights because you liked the wrong team in the wrong place is a real thing. That's crazy!
• vickytnz 12y ago
  tl;dr I decided to take interest in something that lots of other people do so I could talk to them. I remember reading an article about the British show Bullseye that pointed out that the blue-collar workers shown in the 80s episodes actually knew more about current events at the time than some educated people might today. It was expected as common knowledge and things you would talk about. These days, sport is still the key cross-section. And I'm pretty sure that football transcends class in the UK these days (I know to be at least a little interested in Sunderland and NUFC games due to moving here, just as every Kiwi worth their salt knows at least a little about rugby).
• remarkEon 12y ago
  After reading through a lot of these comments...I just have to ask, does anyone ever just play sports for fun? There seems to be a lot of real visceral and negative feelings toward organized sports - even beyond the professional leagues. Does anyone enjoy just watching baseball? I absolutely love Fantasy baseball. It's a great intellectually stimulating way to just relax. Am I allowed to relax, or am I supporting some grand corporate conspiracy. This thread is quite sad to me.
  • dinkumthinkum 12y ago
    No you are clear not hipster enough. :) Actually, for people that just don't like sports, fine, but a lot of what's been written is pseudo-intellectual jibber jabber about tribalism blah blah jingoism, etc.
• rwallace 12y ago
  I have no opinion on whether you should become a fan of professional sports; by all means do if you want. I do, however, have an opinion on which one if so. Supporting American football, which causes irreversible brain damage in 100% of players [1] [2], is very much not okay. Maiming and crippling people for entertainment is a moral atrocity, and shame on the author for condoning it. [1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/10/19/offensive-play http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/10/19/offensive-play [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/opinion/what-i-saw-as-an-nfl-ball-boy.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/opinion/what-i-saw-as-an-n...
• austerity 12y ago
  I cultivated interest in golf to build rapport with the upper class. That didn't sound right, did it? Now is there any real difference between that and what the author is saying? I don't see one.
  • siegecraft 12y ago
    Apparently you missed where you used the word "upper" or thought that it was equivalent to "lower," when in fact they are opposites. My apologies for this gentle correction if you are not a native english speaker.
    • austerity 12y ago
      I am not a native speaker FWIW but "upper" is exactly what I wanted to say. My point was that if you replace football with golf and working class with upper class the whole idea of cultivating interest in sport to fit with some social group starts to sound really cheesy. And that author's "noble" intent is a fig leaf on what sounds like a rather pointless exercise to me. Although I cannot pinpoint exactly why. (btw, I am not the one who downvoted you. HN got really trigger-happy lately)
      • siegecraft 12y ago
        I don't think it sounds cheesy, in fact there are tons of people who play golf (or at least only get into it) for the business and networking aspects of it. The difference is that building rapport with the upper class is probably seen as self-serving while building rapport with the lower class is maybe construed as altruistic, noble, self-sacrificing? It really comes down to common courtesy; if you are pleasant to rich upper class people it can be dismissed as sucking up; if you treat people in the lower class the same way, there's less room to dismiss it as anything but genuine niceness.
• abalone 12y ago
  Really cool to see Michael Albert mentioned on HN. He runs a great site called ZNet, a portal to really good political analysis from what you might call the "left libertarian" perspective. For example Noam Chomsky is a regular contributor, just to give you an idea. The design's a little dated and they're always looking for technical help. https://zcomm.org/ https://zcomm.org/
• blhack 12y ago
  This is really an interesting thing to see. I live in Phoenix, AZ. Which is where the superbowl is taking place. There are literally ads for it EVERYWHERE. And yet I still meet people who aren't just ignorant of what is going on[1], but seemingly proud of their ignorance. [1]Of course some people might just not know what is going on, or assume it's just another big sporting event and not really recognize that this one is especially significant.
• canvia 12y ago
  There are several reasons why I dislike sports. Professional sports are expensive and inefficient forms of entertainment. What is your cost (and opportunity cost) per hour for sports? Compared to films, books, video games, or board games you are burning money/time on a completely passive experience. When was the last time you learned something about yourself or others while watching a sporting event? Do they cause you to think at all? Sports create an "us VS them" mentality that creates division. I much prefer following space exploration in which the opponent is objective based and nature itself. Live events are used as delivery mechanisms for the marketing of inferior products like fast food restaurants, poor quality beers, fashion brands, processed foods, etc. The mentality that "I must watch it live" is constantly reenforced, requiring consumption of marketing. The phenomenon of the sports bar further encourages consumption of unhealthy food and poor quality beer (leading to drinking and driving). For those reasons I no longer watch any sporting events. Now I watch eSports on Twitch to get my dose of live entertainment.
  • znconrad5 12y ago
    What eSport are you watching where it is NOT "us VS them"? Starcraft is a 1v1 game. LoL is a 5v5 game. Not sure what other eSports there are, but the major ones are always pitting humans against eachother...
    • Dylan16807 12y ago
      us. them. plural words. the viewer and player being part of the same group. You're badly misinterpreting that line. It's about the fans, not whether the players compete (obviously the players compete). "us vs them" is when you hear a fan say a phrase like "we won". It's certainly possible to get wrapped up in a fandom in eSports, but from my limited perspective it's much less common.
  • billyvg 12y ago
    - You can watch sports at home, on a TV, through your OTA antennae, costing you nothing - When was the last time you learned something about yourself or others while watching an eSports event? Do they cause you to think at all?
• whatsgood 12y ago
  wow. that's a lot of comments. like. a lot.
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
• wallflower 12y ago
  I remember meeting my sister's friends in Chicago once. Even before their first son was able to walk, they were putting an inflatable baseball bat into his hands and teaching him how to swing it. Giving him big smiles when he did an approximation of the classic bat swing. Later they threw a giant beach ball as the ball. They happen to be Cubs season ticket holders - so yes by the time he was in kindergarten - he'd been to more games than many adults. While this is an extreme example, it shows that a love of sports is passed down by parents to their kids. Really, a love of anything can be passed down (working on your car in your garage). Love and passion, can't beat them. I grew up without watching football or major professional sports on a regular basis. Mostly because my dad did not watch any. To this day, I really can't understand football (American) - not the game, but the obsession, TV commercial timeouts and all. Sports is such a big part of American culture that it is part of many of our childhoods. As one of my college friends explained to me, watching football on Sundays with the guys is not really about watching football - it's about hanging out.
• otakucode 12y ago
  Sports, like any large body of knowledge, requires a dedication of a great deal of brain-hours to become proficient at. Actually participating in sports requires an order of magnitude more investment, of course. Since human beings have limited time available to them, they MUST sacrifice something else in order to become knowledgeable about sports. For me, this is why I have no interest in sports. The game mechanics interest me, the statistics interest me, and I could find a lot of avenues to approach the subject enjoyably... but I would have to give up something else. And the other things I occupy myself with are, in my opinion, more worth my time.
• misiti3780 12y ago
  As someone who doesn't watch sports - hasn't fantasy football basically ruined football? 1) No one has team allegiance anymore, it is now player allegiance 2) People waste more time watching football to cover their entire team. The NFL shoves so many shitty ads in your face it's painful to even sit there and pretend to care. I have trouble understanding why everyone watches games in real-time. Sign off twitter/facebook/whatever so you do not get updates, record the game, and fast-forward through every horrible ad/time-out/whatever else you have to sit through I know this isnt going to be popular, but I had to say it haha.
  • billyvg 12y ago
    I don't think it's ruined football at all. The older fans certainly still have team allegiances, while fantasy helps new fans get interested in the NFL. Yeah advertisements suck, but any television programming also face the same problems. The great thing with watching football is that you're already conditioned to not pay attention to the game for 30 seconds every 10 seconds.
• brogrammer90 12y ago
  I love sports that are one on one but couldn't care less about teams. When somebody brings up "the game", I usually respond with "the fight", and then we'll both race to cut the conversation short.
• dbtc 12y ago
  Sports is a huge business. Don't make that a part of your identity.
• DanielBMarkham 12y ago
  Kudos to this author for making an effort at establishing common ground for small talk. Watching the culture change over the past several decades, I worry that there are less and less points of common interest in American society. Having said that, I don't like watching professional sports. I don't like watching games; I'd rather play them myself. I don't like supporting huge monopolies of multi-millionaires playing other multi-millionaires while ruining their bodies. It's just not my value system. I watch 1 or 2 footballs games a year, usually the Superbowl, and usually for the same reason this author decided to become a fan.
• arjn 12y ago
  I don't know if its "cultivated" disinterest but I've found my self becoming less interested in sports as i've grown older. I was never a fan of football or soccer but the one or two sports I liked in my younger days do not hold my interest any longer. I just dont find them interesting any more and I don't really understand how so many people do.
• bmoresbest55 12y ago
  As a person who has played many sports and specifically basketball to a college D1 level I find this article both true and troubling. This is because I also enjoy discussing things at a high level. I enjoy the fact that I can talk to a person about Turing tests (or any CS related topic) and then turn the conversation right into how the Baltimore Ravens need better defensive backs for next season (Baltimore/DC fan here). I think that people who engage in elitism are extremely petty and self-centered and I have told the few that I come across so. No one is better than any other person based on their passions or interests. I just want everyone to be friends. Is that so hard to ask?
  • dragonwriter 12y ago
    > As a person who has played many sports and specifically basketball to a college D1 level I find this article both true and troubling. This is because I also enjoy discussing things at a high level. I enjoy the fact that I can talk to a person about Turing tests (or any CS related topic) and then turn the conversation right into how the Baltimore Ravens need better defensive backs for next season (Baltimore/DC fan here). I'm glad that you enjoy that, and its great for you. I'm not sure why that should dissuade anyone else from choosing not participate in the ritual of fandom in the particular professional sports that are widely popular, or why the fact that you enjoy it should make it "troubling" that other people choose not to engage with it. > I just want everyone to be friends. Is that so hard to ask? No, it is easy to ask anything. It is also unreasonable. Friendship, if it is to be meaningful, is a positive commitment of time and resources. Everyone can't be friends without robbing the term of all meaning, because there are too many people.
    • bmoresbest55 12y ago
      > I'm glad that you enjoy that, and its great for you. I'm not sure why that should dissuade anyone else from choosing not participate in the ritual of fandom in the particular professional sports that are widely popular, or why the fact that you enjoy it should make it "troubling" that other people choose not to engage with it. I am not trying to dissuade anyone from anything. All I am saying to be more open to the way other people may think or have passion for. Also, from the actual post, the author correctly summarizes that sports can be something too bridge gaps between all types of people. So in effect, you are saying people do not want/need this capability? The ability to be able to talk to another human being able something mildy to fanatically interesting? > No, it is easy to ask anything. It is also unreasonable. Friendship, if it is to be meaningful, is a positive commitment of time and resources. Everyone can't be friends without robbing the term of all meaning, because there are too many people. You're right because I just asked it. Also, the definition of friend is relatively broad and I am half glass full kind of guy. Finally, you may taking my comments and possibly yourself a little to serious, my friend.
• jqm 12y ago
  Why in the world would I try to take an interest in a topic I have no interest in in order to fit in with people on a level I have no interest in fitting in? Life is very simply to short to be excited about these kind of things. As it is, I don't even have time to find out everything I really do want to find out. If I did have to get interested in something I have absolutely zero interest in, it might as well be fashion shows. I'm thinking the romance potential might be higher than with sports. If people are interested in professional sports fine... I don't feel elitist or look down on them. I do scratch my head and wonder to myself that they don't have something more interesting to do with their time, but whatever. I don't claim to know what everyone else should like. I sure don't have to be interested though.
• jqm 12y ago
  Why stop with professional sports? How about auto racing? Square dancing? Championship wrestling? Rooster fighting? Would it be elitist to have a disinterest in those things? At some point you have to say... this is not something that interests me and I don't really care for the environment surrounding it.
• Al-Khwarizmi 12y ago
  The article defends that cultivated people's dislike for professional sports is artificial, and then the author goes on to tell us how he artificially made himself like professional sports. Quite ironic.
• dlwj 12y ago
  Each social subgroup or culture maintains its identity through shared cultivated interest in some areas, and cultivated disinterest in others. The degree to which this interest or disinterest is realized is determined by how much an individual wants to be part of a group. Wine appreciation, which is associated with high status, attracts rather clunky attempts at cultivated interested. Religious group detractors cultivate a far more antagonistic disinterest. No one likes beer as children but because people want to fit in so much with the "fun" group, they cultivate heavy interests and tastes for it. Sports for the most part is tied down to location. A small levels it associates you with your school, and at higher levels it associates you with your city, state, or even country. Groups often compete against other groups for resources in a 0 sum game. Sports passion can actually be used to measure the level of "loyalty" a person has to a group. The most loyal people will put his or her group above other groups to the detriment of others. (This nepotism is actually necessary for stable groups. We treat are friends and family this way. Also, if a morally superior alien race of 10 trillion decides the destruction of earth is a necessary evil, meritocracy requires we die willingly) I don't care much about the state of the homeless in San Francisco. It makes me sound cold but it's the truth. To me, I don't understand why I should care more about this than the homeless in some other state, or the starving and dying in some other country. People don't like these "free-agents" because they seem completely selfish and base everything on cold logic and meritocracy than warm immediate empathy. They can't be trusted to do what's right for the group, in fact, they may just jump ship when some other better group shows up. Sports fanaticism is a reasonable measure of this.
• murbard2 12y ago
  The article is correct that one should not cultivate a disinterest in sports and talk about the "working class struggle". If you're going to be an elitist, do it right. Spectator sports, rooting for a team, appeal to the most basic and stupid tribal instincts. This is why we end up with crappy policies, this is what we can't have nice thing. So yes, it's fine to despise it, and to look down on people who make it an important part of their life.
  • dinkumthinkum 12y ago
    If you think sports are the reason we have stupid policies then I think something is stupid and it's not sports. These supposed intellectuals on HackerNews are split between socialism and anarcho-capitalism so it can be hard to really say which of these policies are objectively stupid let alone blame sports of all things for them.
    • murbard2 12y ago
      No, tribalism is the reason we have both sports and stupid policies. The hope is that by condemning sports one can make a more general point about tribalism.
      • dinkumthinkum 12y ago
        Extraordinary claims. It is fashionable for hipsters to income their god as an explanation for all that is wrong "tribalism". Is any evidence required? Honestly I think the idea thAr sports is tribalism is a cop out for the intellectual lazy. You have to think at a higher intellectual than to stupid policies come from sports. As I pointed out, the alleged intellectuals on HN can't agree between socialism and anarcho-capitalism so I think "stupid policy" is a bit loaded. What policy and what was its path of origination, I guess you would say sports every time with a lot if hand waving. :)
        • murbard2 12y ago
          I give you the Nika Riots, to begin with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots
• sarciszewski 12y ago
  I've never liked sports. My reasons had very little to do with academia or privileged tech culture. I grew up poor in a blue collar part of Florida. I can keenly recall that my dad is an Oakland Raiders fan while my mom favors the Minnesota Vikings. My dislike for sports began with not being good at anything physical. Running, kickball, dodgeball, push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, baseball, flag football, etc. I was jaded towards them at school, so I focused other activities (drawing, writing, reading, and of course, programming). My hobbies were frequently disrupted by sports. Pep rallies were the bane of my existence in high school. Every time a decisive sports game was on the air, I couldn't avoid the cacophony of drunkards yelling in vain at a television. "GO GO GO GO GO!" "Pfft, they can't hear you, morons," I would say. After a while, I invested in a pair of headphones. I graduated from high school in 2008. It's been years since sports were in any way forced upon me. I still don't like sports. Not because it's cool to dislike them, but because it was a nuisance for so many years of my life. But if someone else likes sports? That's cool. I'll listen and ask questions even if I don't really give a shit. It's called being a decent human being.
• rohunati 12y ago
  I am always puzzled at how "high brow" people scoff at sports. There is so much to learn from athletes. MJ, Kobe, Tom Brady -- these guys have all the skill in the world, but more impressive than their skill is their incredible work ethic. I feel there's a lot to learn here. For example, one of Kobe's conditioning trainer's had this to say: "When I arrived and opened the room to the main practice floor I saw Kobe. Alone. He was drenched in sweat as if he had just taken a swim. It wasn’t even 5AM. We did some conditioning work for the next hour and fifteen minutes. Then we entered the weight room, where he would do a multitude of strength training exercises for the next 45 minutes. After that we parted ways and he went back to the practice floor to shoot. I went back to the hotel and crashed. Wow." Later on, around 11AM, the trainer sees Kobe on the court, practicing with the USA Olympic Squad, and has this conversation: "So when did you finish?" "Finish what?" "Getting your shots up. What time did you leave the facility?" "Oh just now. I wanted 800 makes so yeah, just now." ... This is not unique to Kobe, you find stories like this with all athletes in conversation for "greatest of all time." Secondly, there's a lot to learn from coaches as well, especially from the perspective of a startup founder. There's a reason Keith Rabois brought up the Bill Walsh's (SF 49ers coach) book, "The Score Takes Care of Itself," in the HTSAS lecture series. Lastly, watching sports at a high level is like appreciating great art. A great backhand in tennis, a brilliant pass by a quarterback, these all have a quality of beauty about them. I feel they induce similar awe-inspiring feelings one might find in an art museum, a great music album, etc.
• peckrob 12y ago
  I have a hard time following professional sports because I don't feel any connection to the team. I live in a smaller city so we don't have any top-tier professional sports, just a minor league baseball team that's about to move, a minor league hockey team and some semi-pro teams. I would nominally say I'm a fan of the Titans as they're the closest NFL team, but they're still an hour and a half away and, anyways, it's more "oh, look, they're on, guess I'll watch." But, I LOVE college sports. I graduated from to a major SEC university (Auburn) and attended all but one home game the 5 seasons I was there, as well as at least one away game each season. Same with basketball, only my attendance wasn't quite so diligent. But I feel a connection with that team, even years later. That's my school. When I was there, they were my classmates. I had a geology class with the quarterback. Even now, years removed from my time as a student, I never miss a game on TV and try to make it down there at least once a season. Seeing the stadium, seeing the band, hearing the roar of the crowd at kickoff, smelling the barbecue and bourbon in the air. The indescribable thrill of seeing a live eagle fly down and land in the middle of the field. Watching the chess match between the the two insanely intelligent coaches, watching the plays executed by talented players who are still often works in progress - not finely tuned professional athletes. And stepping foot back on campus once again. All those potent memories come flooding back. It truly is a wonderful experience for me. An unbelievable rush. Some of my fraternity brothers and I even have a long running iMessage group that sees hundreds of messages on gameday going back and forth as the four of us cheer, analyze, celebrate and commiserate. Even though we're separated by different occupations and thousands of miles, we maintain that link that was our time together and our shared interest in sport. Stephen Fry captured it perfectly in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuPeGPwGKe8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuPeGPwGKe8 But I've heard NFL fans talk about their teams exactly how I talk about Auburn. So I wonder if it might be different if I lived in a city that actually had a real top-tier professional team. Some way of having a connection to this team.
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
• a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
  "The heroes of declining nations are always the same—the athlete, the singer or the actor." http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2010/09/fate-of-empires-part-2.html http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2010/09/fate-of-empires-p...
• santoriv 12y ago
  There seems to be an assumption in this article that the baseline "normal" behavior is to be interested in sports. Where I grew up (the rural South) sports is huge and the default topic of conversation. I always felt that there was something wrong with me because I wasn't that interested. Then as an adult I moved to Vietnam, where people are only occasionally interested in football(soccer) and that's pretty much it. By default people don't care about sports. If took soccer fanatic and dropped them here, I think their behavior would be perceived as pretty peculiar. So to me this article is: "You should agree my cultural assumptions because that is normal baseline human behavior and if you don't then you are deliberately being a jerk." Which is pretty silly. Just like what you like and don't worry about it.
• jacquesm 12y ago
  There's a false choice at play here. It's entirely possible not to have a favorite team in any sport, not to be part of the sport consumption culture and yet to immensely enjoy active participation in sports.
• snarfy 12y ago
  I wouldn't have a problem with professional sports if they weren't subsidized by the rest of society. Why does 80% of my cable bill go to pay for ESPN and ESPN2? Why are my tax dollars paying for a stadium who's profits go to the private owners? Why do I get a discount at the grocery store for wearing a football jersey? Professional sports would be nowhere the size they are today without the subsidies.
• wtbob 12y ago
  You know, growing up I absolutely loathed sports. I didn't understand them (we never watched them in my house), and sports-lovers never explained them; I still remember my gym 'teacher' yelling about 'first and ten' when we had to play flag football, and never actually explaining what it meant. I wasn't any good at them, due at least in part to my bad eyes. In retrospect, I suspect that I also disliked them, whether played or watched, because they were a social situation and I wasn't terribly good at social situations. In retrospect, I do kind of wish that I'd gotten into them, because they are a bonding experience for so many, and they do provide the grounds for a somewhat better level of small talk than idle chit-chat about the weather. And they certainly can be enjoyable to play. But as it is, I just don't emotionally get it. Watching sports is boring; it simply doesn't connect. Why should I care if a group of millionaires from my town are running around on some grass with a group of millionaires from your town? Why should I be happy that my taxes are higher in order to raise money for buildings for those same millionaires? Why would I want to spend hours a week and hundreds of dollars watching rich people exercise, talking about rich people exercising and thinking about rich people exercising? It just doesn't make sense to me. Part of me wishes it did; obviously I am unlike most people. But part of me is glad, too. In some ways, I feel like the little boy in the The Emperor's New Clothes; in others I feel like I'm blind. As an aside, I thought this quote was just hilarious: > The machoness and absence of women in the highest levels of most professional sports bothers[sic] me deeply. I really wonder how one can have working eyes, possess a functioning brain and have come to adulthood and still be surprised that in almost any physical competition the absolute best competitors will be male. It takes a pretty sincere dedication to being disconnected from reality to manage that. It'd be like saying, 'avian over-representation and the absence of fish from the air bother me deeply.'
• Tycho 12y ago
  I know the type of person who has a 'cultivated lack of interest' in sports. Thing is, I don't really associate it with the 'educated elite.' Most smart people I know are actually quite passionate about professional sports.
• doktrin 12y ago
  What a dumb article. You don't have to like professional sports. There are other things in life that are worth paying attention to.
• j2kun 12y ago
  While I don't condone rudeness about sports (I don't like watching sports, but when my friends and family want to do it I politely watch and listen), politeness about what people love is a two-way street that I understand vividly in my profession: mathematics. Because if there's anything that people compete to show their ignorance about, it's basic mathematics. I would gladly become a die-hard sports fan if it meant the average person I meet didn't talk they way they do about math.
• mavsman 12y ago
  Many comments here are very informative. My takeaway here is that closing ourselves off from certain topics or ideas entirely will in turn, and to a certain extent, close us off from a certain subset of people. Just be open minded.
• sharer 12y ago
  the idea that you're either an athlete or a nerd is such a tired old stereotype. How have we not left this behind? Raise your hand if you got a 1400 on the SAT and also played a sport in high school (for obvious reasons cross-country doesn't count).