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For anyone interested... the whole motivation of Google Fiber to motivate ISPs to stop gouging us does exactly what it is designed to do. Cox, in Phoenix, mira

• Caged 12y ago
  Comcast also doubled speeds in Portland recently without raising prices. http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/index.ssf/2014/11/comcast_will_double_internet_s.html http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/index.ssf/2014/11/c...
  • rhino369 12y ago
    Cables co's have been doing that across the country because of DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades and recouping spectrum by digitizing all their channels. Docsis 3.1 will come out in the next year and you'll see really high rate plans, but I bet they will charge a lot.
• tortilla 12y ago
  Yup, I got the postcards from Cox in my neighborhood (N. Scottsdale). Same thoughts as you.
  • rkalla 12y ago
    Did you get the 'GigLife' flyer? If you notice in the footnotes, "GigLife is 150mbps internet service" -- the Gigabit service is a different thing they are calling 'Gig Blast' or something like that. So (intentionally) confusing :(
• daigoba66 12y ago
  In my market (Atlanta) it's not even really about the speed. Granted Comcast is far more expensive per mbps than Google Fiber. It is "fast enough" except that Comcast will cap data usage to about 300 GB per month before charging fees.
  • mbreese 12y ago
    Maybe they are targeting area that have data caps? Perhaps that's one reason why Google hasn't announced anything in the Bay Area.
    • pconner 12y ago
      They are considering the south Bay, though. It's close to home for them.
    • mrgriscom 12y ago
      Google said that any fiber project in CA is basically a non-starter due to all the hoops they'd have to jump through to comply with CA's environmental impact assessment laws.
  • res0nat0r 12y ago
    I have 105Mb Comcast internet service with no caps. I don't think the cap applies everywhere.
    • pconner 12y ago
      Atlanta was one of the "test markets" for AT&T's data cap (which is expected to be applied to other parts of the country soon). It might be the same for Comcast.
      • mitchty 12y ago
        God I hope not, I just looked at my usage and one month (November) I had 800G of transfer. I backed up a lot that month, been making a lot of videos lately.
• CapitalistCartr 12y ago
  That's what happened when GMail offered 2 GB inboxes. The competition got serious.
  • xeromal 12y ago
    I completely forgot about that. I remember having some POS 100Mb account with hotmail and upgrading to Gmail was a godsend. I think I bought an invite on ebay.
    • Chronic30 12y ago
      You paid Google so they could have access to all your email data?
    • wanderingstan 12y ago
      100mb?! I remember hotmail slowly reducing the mailbox capacity to like 20mb by the time gmail appeared. A friend and I did a big trip to Southeast Asia and he begged his friends on email not to Include his email in their responses to save space on the server.
  • vertex-four 12y ago
    Of course, most competition also died. In terms of free email, there's now... I think Outlook.com is the only one I see semi-regularly? Yahoo's email service is utterly dreadful and I seem to remember a lot of kerfuffle regarding them and mailing lists.
    • yahoooooo 12y ago
      No one I'm friends with uses yahoo, but out of a class I taught of 160 university students, I'd say about 20% of those who actually emailed me were using yahoo.com. And for older folk, I still see plenty of @aol and @<serviceprovider> addresses. Don't mistake what youre friends are doing for what the world as a whole is doing!
    • avar 12y ago
      Most of the competition deserved to die. At the time 10-50MB mailboxes were normal, and Google came out with 1GB (and counting!) from day one, along with a much better UI than everyone else, and kick-ass spam filters. Nobody's done much more than reach parity with GMail since then, so there's been no big incentive to switch back.
• stephengoodwin 12y ago
  I have Time Warner here in Austin. Although Google Fiber is not yet available for my place, in the last 6 months, TWC has increased my speeds and sent out new modems/routers.
• delucain 12y ago
  In Austin AT&T and Grande (Local ISP) both started offering Gigabit shortly after the time Google announced Austin as a fiber city. It's working.
  • jsabo 12y ago
    And TWC upgraded most of the city while keeping prices the same (for now at least, since at least on my bill they credit the difference in plan prices). They started the same process in San Antonio around the same time SA started wooing Google Fiber as well. Definite win for consumers at east.
    • saryant 12y ago
      At least parts of SA had competition, since there were neighborhoods served by both TWC and Grande. Long before Google Fiber I remember actually getting better speeds than I paid for on Grande. I think I was paying $25/25mbps and seeing 30-35 on a regular basis.
• aesthetics1 12y ago
  Saw the same thing from Comcast in a very rural area - doubled speeds for free with higher tiers available. Went from 50 to 100. I think we are finally seeing some change.
  • rkalla 12y ago
    Funny you mention 'rural area' -- my in-laws all live in the wooded section of Troy, IL... total population is like 1,000 people. Anyway, they have Charter cable over there - and for the last decade they have been asking me about 'Getting Netflix' - but with a maximum download speed of 3mbps I kept telling them "It's just not going to work well for you..." 2 months ago Charter bumped them from 3mbps to 50mbps. My first thought was "well, looks like another cable company is moving into the area..."
    • janesvilleseo 12y ago
      My thoughts too. However, I live in a Charter serviced area and when doing my research when switching from ATT, I noticed they only offer 1 speed. There are no tiers. 1 speed, 1 price Also, I just looked up a price quote for Troy (near city hall) and noticed they indicate their speeds start at 100Mbps for 39.99. Granted you said they live out farther, but they may be able to get more. My wife's internet at her studio was recently doubled, but only after we called. They said they needed to see if her modem was "too old". It wasn't and they doubled it on the spot. She has a business account for that one.
      • rkalla 12y ago
        100?! That's phenomenal... I'll give them a call tonight and ask them to check with Charter and see what is available (for a decent price/a price they are OK with). Thanks for the heads up!
        • janesvilleseo 12y ago
          I just checked mine too and they doubled it. It was 30 and now it's 60. Not as great. They said it was already upgraded and I didn't need to call, but my speed tests were 30 before I called and 60 after I called....hmm.
• evo_9 12y ago
  Given that reality one wonder why the incumbents don't raise all their speeds to dissuade google from entering there various markets. Perhaps the shear magnitude of their collective greed obscures their reasoning?
  • stonemetal 12y ago
    Fighting back isn't free. They have to upgrade infrastructure, and send out new modems. This means they are only going to fight if they have to.
    • mhurron 12y ago
      And other than in a few neighborhoods, they don't have to. 10 minutes north of Durham, ya, I'm sure Time Warner will feel the need to 'fight' there, let alone all the neighborhoods in Durham that won't get Google Fiber.
  • nolok 12y ago
    Because you're talking about a few cities affected, while the incumbents have a very large number of them in their markets. Waiting to get the names, and changing only those, allow them to keep milking cities where google fiber is not coming (which is most of their market).
    • adventured 12y ago
      Google doesn't need to add its service to every city. If you nail the top ~50 cities, then the rest must compete regardless. It adds massive pressure at a national level when you're talking about tens of millions of people having access to 1gbps, it becomes a cultural talking point, average people start applying pressure to politicians over it. If you put a 1gbps service in Cincinnati, that forces Cleveland to have to compete with the economic gravity that generates. And they will either respond through attempting to build their own muni broadband or enticing eg Google fiber, or they will suffer and Cincinnati will draw people, capital and talent away from Cleveland.
  • rkalla 12y ago
• whatsgood 12y ago
  in the meantime, here in baltimore, comcast still has it's monopoly which was initiated in 2004.
  • mjs2600 12y ago
    Knoxville is a Comcast test market, so we get data caps. You can buy a faster connection, it just means you hit the cap faster. Just a heads up on what Comcast is planning on doing to you next...
• deleted 12y ago
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• AndyNemmity 12y ago
  My friend just got the gigabit service, first area to get it. So jealous. The price isn't even all that high.
  • rkalla 12y ago
    In Phoenix/Scottsdale? What are the major cross streets near him? How much? I'm down near Tatum & Cactus.
    • seanp2k2 12y ago
      I love that in the Phoenix area, you can go across town and still be on something & Cactus.
      • rkalla 12y ago
        lol, 344th Ave and Cactus or 771st St and Cactus (West Texas) :)
    • AndyNemmity 12y ago
      I think he's officially in Phoenix, but he's on the other side of South Mountain. So Pecos.
    • drawkbox 12y ago
      In Chandler, which was the first city in AZ to get broadband in the 90s, we are very jealous of Tempe, Scottsdale and Phoenix getting both Google Fiber love and Cox love due to that competition. Cox probably cares about Chandler even less now it has competition to deal with, we'll be last to get 1Gbps Gigablast that suddenly was announced when Google Fiber picked Phoenix.
    • skeeterbug 12y ago
      Woah. I am at 40th st and Cactus. No gigabit here yet. Last time I had a tech out he was saying this area gets newer stuff quicker because we are so close to North Scottsdale. EDIT North Scottsdale is generally first because that is where most of the company execs live.
• _greim_ 12y ago
  > CenturyLink and Cox were perfectly fine dabbling in 50mbps service for the rest of eternity without true competition. Why isn't there competition between those two?
  • rkalla 12y ago
    I am sure there is - but I don't think CL had the capacity to really 'push' Cox. They weren't rolling out anything better than what Cox had, just comparable, so both were just happily sitting there for years and years not really bothering each other. Then GFib comes in and suddenly everyone has piles of internet laying around ;)
  • IshKebab 12y ago
    I don't live there, but I guess it is an oligopoly. They probably offer identical (or very similar) services at similar prices, both making a huge profit. Neither wants to rock the highly profitable boat.
• mischanix 12y ago
  I've experienced the opposite so far in my area; I've received a data cap from Comcast for which my monthly overage charges exceed $100, on top of the $50 base cost, for the same 50Mbps service.
• danielweber 12y ago
  I'm in Charlotte and I have two ISPs, and neither of them gives me any data cap or any problem watching 2 Netflix streams. My neighborhood has buried cable, so I don't know if the fiber will come to my house.
  • ddoolin 12y ago
    Does buried cable somehow mean we can't get fiber? We also have buried cable. I thought most of Charlotte had it.
    • danielweber 12y ago
      It's harder than just stringing up new wire to the poles. I honestly don't know how much work it is to add to the buried cable. If you have to go dig up each piece of conduit, that would royally freaking suck. Maybe there are access tunnels where they can use strings or something to yank the cable through. I would love to hear more about this. And honestly, fibre to my cul-de-sac would probably be good enough for me.
• ljk 12y ago
  It' stories like these that's making me not sure if google is evil or not(i'm guessing the least evil of them all)
• higherpurpose 12y ago
  Even when they do that, you should still support Google Fiber by switching to it. If nobody switches then Google Fiber will die for lack of customers and revenue and the established players will go back to using their old attitude towards the customers, and never upgrade again.
  • rkalla 12y ago
    Certainly true... I have a 50' inflatable arrow on the top of my roof that says "I need Google Fiber" so I'm at least doing my part to get the message across...
• samelawrence 12y ago
  Also worth noting that Google isn't doing this because: 1) They want to be an ISP 2) They feel bad for America and want us to enjoy faster internet. They're doing it because they have plans for products which necessitate nationwide high speed internet. I don't know what those plans are... maybe making YouTube the everything-video-delivery-system, maybe massively collaborative work tools as they expand Google Docs et al... maybe something we haven't even heard about... but they've got something coming that they require Fiber for. This is a business plan.
  • mabbo 12y ago
    And you know what? I'm fine with that. If Google wants to go and improve my internet experience as a part of some master plan where they do make a boatload of money, I'm perfectly happy to go along with that plan.
    • cheald 12y ago
      It's almost like mutually-beneficial exchange is the backbone of our economy or something!
  • bsder 12y ago
    > This is a business plan. It is, but not because they have a plan beyond it, though. Cox/Time-Warner/etc. basically shook down Google for money a couple of years ago. Google backed down and the last-mile ISPs thought they won. Google, of course, was extremely unhappy to painfully discover that there was insufficient competition if the ISP's decided to play dirty and block their ads. So, Google now looks at the ISP's as a pure, existential threat that they must neutralize. So, even if the ISP's upgrade or get really cheap, Google doesn't care. This is about making sure that no company ever has the ability to cut off Google's flow of ads to the consumer ever again. Google will roll out fiber even if it's somewhat unprofitable just to slowly squeeze the ISP's into obeisance.
    • mkr-hn 12y ago
      I learned a new word today.
• blhack 12y ago
  Sorry for an unrelated comment (but it's rare seeing Phoenix tech people around here). Do you (or other Phoenix people reading this) go to Coffee and Code in Mesa on Wednesdays? If not, you should! It's an awesome coworking event at heatsync labs (a hackerspace I help run). Okay, sorry again for offtopic comment.
• fideaux64 12y ago
  > the idea of going back to < 50mbps makes me sad. Sincere question. What are the specific functional improvements that you've seen at a much higher mbps? Better youtube performance? Faster p2p? Faster web page load times? More supportive of a multi-device household?
  • arjunnarayan 12y ago
    Here's a concrete instance. Last week I made the decision to buy the new Dragon Age game. I have 100mbit, and it downloaded in about 30-45 minutes. This was frustrating because my time is valuable, and of the 3 hours I had to play a game, I only got to play for 2 hours. If I had had the foresight to upgrade to gigabit, it would have downloaded in under 5 minutes. My excellent provider, CondoInternet.net provides 100mbit for $60, and gigabit for $80, but unfortunately I cheaped out. (Well, rather, I decided to first try 100mbit since it was such a huge upgrade over my previous Internet before spending more cash because I'm cheap like that). Gigabit means you can make decisions on a whim, and not have to schedule down time days in advance. I mean I play video games when I'm physically and mentally exhausted (the couple hours post-gym, for instance).
  • rkalla 12y ago
    Really good question - for my household specifically, streaming 4k and HD at full quality to multiple TVs and still being able to game in real time without massive interruptions. Also buying digital delivery games (steam or PSN) is awesome :)
• jsz0 12y ago
  The cable industry has been working on ramping up speeds for the last decade starting with DOCSIS 3 to compete with Verizon FIOS. The development of DOCSIS 3.1 for gigabit speeds over cable actually started before Google Fiber existed. It seems like people don't want to give Verizon credit for this because perhaps Google offers a more compelling story or maybe because it would suggest that competition in the telecom duopoly actually worked out pretty well. Even after Verizon scaled back / halted their build-out of FIOS they had dumped so much money into it that we suddenly had a competitive market for FTTH/G-PON equipment and trained contractors to build it. Google Fiber and muni FTTH projects couldn't have existed without Verizon basically seeding the market for it in the US.
  • xenadu02 12y ago
    Yeah, and Verizon couldn't exist without the government taking away the rights to my land and giving it to Verizon to run their cables without compensating me in the slightest. What's your point? Verizon could be selling gigabit FIOS today but they don't because there is no competition in most markets. FIOS is profitable, just not as profitable as wireless. Guess what Verizon uses to provide wireless? (Hint: public airwaves, most of which they got for free too)
    • rayiner 12y ago
      It's impossible to talk about this in general terms, but in most places, the utility poles are owned by the power company and Verizon pays to string fiber along them. It's unclear whether FiOS is profitable when taking into account the capital investment. They're running a small operating profit, but they have $23 billion to recoup. Almost all the traffic on Verizon's network runs on LTE, and that is spectrum Verizon bought the license to for billions of dollars in auctions. It's staggering how much FUD there is on these issues. This is stuff you can just Google to inform yourself about.
• jusben1369 12y ago
  I hear you. The problem is that the response is super local. ie I think Google hoped that just entering the space would spur activity on regional and national levels. So far though it seems to be only those specific cities that Google launches in then respond. I hope that changes but the bigger guys are calling Google's bluff and just matching it in the small cities (like mine wooo hooo!) that Google launches in.