10 ms·

Dyson 360 Eye

182 points by jmiseikis 12y ago

richbradshaw 12y ago
Is pricing available yet? I've been thinking about a robot vacuum since I moved into a new house with all hard floors.
- mrfusion 12y ago
  If you have to ask you can't afford it ...
- SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
  Excellent question, I'd like to know too. I don't see any prices, but I'd guess somewhere in the region of "expensive".
- uptown 12y ago
  According to the DailyMail, it will cost around £750, or around $1230. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2743185/Dyson-launches-world-s-smart-robot-vacuum-live-cameras-map-house-puts-away.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2743185/Dyson...
  - nodata 12y ago
    £750 is normally around $750
    - uptown 12y ago
      Your conversion is probably more-accurate. I was just going with Google's conversion, but if you compare pricing for currently-available Dyson models in the US and the UK, the conversion-rate is closer to 1:1 after available US discounts.
    - endersshadow 12y ago
      It's really not: https://www.google.com/finance?q=GBPUSD https://www.google.com/finance?q=GBPUSD
      - gamegoblin 12y ago
        OP was probably referring to the fact that things sold in the UK are generally more expensive than the US. Something sold in the US for $100 might be £100 in the UK, even though the conversion rate would have you think it should be £60.
veidr 12y ago
I always thought Dyson was crap, based solely on their obnoxious ads and garish design. Then I bought my wife their cordless upright vacuum for her birthday (I know, I know, but she asked for it). I was astonished when the vacuum became my favorite piece of tech in the whole house. We have a roomba that works fine, but it's extremely hard to imagine that I won't buy this thing immediately.
- skrebbel 12y ago
  You forgot to include your core argument - why did the vacuum become your favorite piece of tech in the whole house? EDIT: for the downvote mafia: I genuinely want to know. Not every short comment is a snark.
  - veidr 12y ago
    Hmm, yeah, why? I haven't reflected on that, so let me do so now: It's super light (a grown man can operate the vacuum and hold a beer with the same hand, while holding a baby with the other arm), and yet it is SUPER powerful (I just leave mine in MAX mode, which only lasts for 6 minutes between recharges -- but that's plenty). It's extremely, unbelievably easy to clean/empty (just push one button while holding it over the trash bin) and also somehow doesn't accumulate film of disgusting 'dustbestos' like all other no-bag vacuums I've experienced... so it stays clean. It seems to be extremely durable... having survived many combats and forced marches at the hands of my 2-year-old son. It has an instant trigger, seems to go from of to full power in 10ms or less (I mean you can't detect it; squeeze the trigger in quick staccato bursts, and it's just all like VREEEEEEEEEEEER!!! VREER!! VREER!!) Despite the light weight, it is extremely POWERFUL. Much better than the $600 tow-the-pod-around corded Hitachi we had before, at a fraction of the size, weight, and yet it doesn't even have a cord. Um... I think that's all. OH WAIT THERE'S MORE!!! I almost forgot the awesome wall mounted charger. Like an idiot, I didn't bother to screw the wall mount thing to the wall for the first few months. Finally, I did. Once you do that, any vacuum that isn't conveniently mounted on the wall is a ridiculous piece of shit. (Note that ours is mounted on the wall inside the kitchen closet; doesn't have to be shown off like some piece of very ugly art.) The wall mount makes it more convenient to access and replace than any vacuum I've had previously. So what are the cons? For one, it looks ridiculous, like a space weapon from a $300-budget high school sci-fi movie. But hmm that's about it. Love that thing. EDIT: some of the downstream comments seem to be talking about some other model. (I think maybe 'upright vacuum' doesn't mean what I think it means.) The one I have is either this one or a very similar model: http://www.amazon.com/Dyson-DC35-Digital-Slim-cordless/dp/B004GN8UYA/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1409836638&sr=1-1&keywords=dyson+dc-35 http://www.amazon.com/Dyson-DC35-Digital-Slim-cordless/dp/B0...
unwind 12y ago
Fantastically annoying page design. Scrolling takes many seconds to just show the next page, with no indication that anything is happening. Just blank blackness. Then each page requires you to hunt and click little circles with pluses in them, just to show a paragraph or two of copy. Would it have killed them to just present all the text at once? Perhaps use tabs or some other "normal" solution to the problem of wanting to talk about different aspects of a product? This whole "scroll to begin" paradigm is so annoying, I think the fact that they felt they had to include that little helper just to tell people how to get to the content is an indication that perhaps a better design exists. Still, I'm glad that there's a robotic vacuum cleaner with better optical bandwidth than humans. I'm sure that's a major selling point in (robotic) vacuums. (Also, this is a re-post of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8267476 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8267476).
- lorddoig 12y ago
  I was thinking the opposite - navigates on scroll down as I expected and joy-of-joys it's in the magazine style (that has an actual name I forget), but unlike most it doesn't hijack the back button.
  - dtaveras 12y ago
    I have to agree with you - Apple also used this style for their Mac Pro page! http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/ http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
- runemadsen 12y ago
  Yes, this is terrible. Don't kill my scroll.
- bitJericho 12y ago
  Yeah that page was a joy to use. I think you're browser was probably not rendering it. Looked great on Firefox.
  - MattBearman 12y ago
kbar13 12y ago
dyson is the new apple
bichiliad 12y ago
"This unique 360° vision system uses complex mathematics, probability theory, geometry and trigonometry to map and navigate a room. So it knows where it is, where it’s been and where it’s yet to clean." I hate the "Oh, why don't we use slightly complex words to make the consumers feel impressed" marketing practice. Like when shampoo ads use phrases like "advanced [made-up-word] technology." Edit: That was a bit grumpier than it should have been. I haven't had coffee yet.
- ModernMech 12y ago
  Eh, everyone does this. I see HNers do it all the time adding "with machine learning" to some otherwise mundane problem to make it sound more interesting/impressive.
- Schwolop 12y ago
  Unique? Hmmm... for a vacuum cleaner, maybe. For indoor robotics, not so much. It's fairly standard Visual-SLAM.
  - m_eiman 12y ago
    Not unique for a vacuum; Samsung have been selling SLAM-ing bots for four years, at least: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/09/samsung-navibot-sr8845-sr8855-vacuum-cleaner-hands-on/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/09/samsung-navibot-sr8845-sr...
- Grue3 12y ago
  I'm pretty sure the software in the vacuum actually makes use of all of these. But then, so does your average roguelike.
- krisoft 12y ago
  I have heard multiple people to complain that Roombas are just wandering around randomly. It's worth to note that none of these complainers had a Roomba at home, so the issue might only be a perceived one. But nevertheless in marketing these things count, and who knows? Maybe Dyson tried it and found the sensored version superior in engineering terms too. So on one hand you have people complaining about 'random movements', and you have an automated vac which doesn't do that. How do you communicate this? The feature is clearly important enough for them to put it in the name. It's not called Dyson TankTrack or Dyson DoubleBristle, it's called Dyson 360 Eye. So they could say: "doesn't move randomly" but that's probably not true, and doesn't sound any good. Quite likely it falls back to random wandering to re-locate from a kidnaped-robot situation. Besides negative statements ought to be avoided because they focus the costumer on what you don't have, instead of what you have. (at least so it goes the marketing wisdom) They could also just say: "does SLAM (Simultaneous Localization and Mapping)" would be accurate, and would be totally cryptic for anyone who is not in the know. Of course I haven't tested the robot, but if it does what they imply, then the consumer shouldn't feel impressed because of the complex words. They should feel impressed because this is impressive. Does it vacuum better? Who knows, we will see.
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omgtehlion 12y ago
Automatic localization is bad. This is why: https://yadi.sk/i/W5YUMQq6b2aXi https://yadi.sk/i/W5YUMQq6b2aXi
- poglet 12y ago
  Is there a way to change the page to English? Unfortunately it's not as simple as changing the URL. Edit: Clicking the globe icon then changing country. Mine was stuck in Japanese.
allegory 12y ago
Unreliable, expensive parts, poor design and now they're introducing more technology and robotics!?! I've owned a few Dyson products - totally horrid. Never again. The only positive think I can say is that their service department sends out parts quickly.
xexers 12y ago
So, it drives around your home with WiFi internet access and a 360 degree video camera. Privacy concerns?
- rglover 12y ago
  "I'm just sweeping the floors, bro. Don't mind me."
- msabalau 12y ago
  Given that 50 million domestic workers are employed worldwide in people's homes, perhaps many people won't actually waste their time worrying about the "privacy" implications of a device which presumably isn't designed to upload video, but instead receive smartphone instructions.
- rtkwe 12y ago
  Possibly, but it'd be pretty damn easy to tell if they were ever streaming video out, just check for any massive upstream communications by it's MAC.
electic 12y ago
Probably won't even considering buying this vacuum due to the page design. The images didn't load. Jerk scroll. What a mess.
maguirre 12y ago
For the web inclined guys here. What techniques are used to show motion/animation? looks quite smooth/impressive
- dimxasnewfrozen 12y ago
  It's a series of images and videos is looks like. The video plays and then overlays an image (in the exact location that the video ended) on each scroll/navigation.
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  HTML5 video, I'm sure. They used that on the Mac Pro website too - they had two videos for each 'image', one forward, and one in reverse. Some JS playback controls linked to scrolling, and that's pretty much it. Very nice results though.
- UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
  As a web developer and web user I completely refuse to tell you, otherwise I worry you might copy this horrendous site design elsewhere. This is a site anti-pattern (at least at desktop resolution). The site is only readable when I shrink the browser down until that terrible animated nonsense goes away.
- andyhmltn 12y ago
  It seems heavily inspired by the recent Apple Mac Pro page redesign which is dissected here: https://ihatetomatoes.net/apple-mac-pro-page-deconstructed/ https://ihatetomatoes.net/apple-mac-pro-page-deconstructed/ Personally, I hate this kind of design as it breaks the scroll but it's interesting to see how it works none-the-less
- deanclatworthy 12y ago
  It cycles through images based on scroll position. My colleague built a site that uses technique and made a library to make managing it easier. The site: http://download.kone.com/ultrarope/index.htm http://download.kone.com/ultrarope/index.htm The code: https://github.com/kontur/jquery.video-frame-animation https://github.com/kontur/jquery.video-frame-animation
delsarto 12y ago
"17,000 rpm with digital pulse technology" ... I guess that means a PWM DC motor controller?
- githulhu 12y ago
  "Digital motor" raised my eyebrow too. Apparently it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor Guess marketing didn't think "Reluctance motor" had quite the same ring, and I'd tend to agree.
  - jonah 12y ago
    Linked from that page is this article which goes into the design and development of the motor a bit: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/dyson-vacuums-104000rpm-brushless-dc-technology-2009-06/ http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/dyson-vac...
- headShrinker 12y ago
  Correction, it's a 73,000 rpm motor!
bglazer 12y ago
Lots of negativity in the comments. A couple questions: 1. For the robotics people, is the "360° eye" camera an innovation, or is this already a standard component of robotic vision? 2. What's the next step for robotics in the house after vacuums?
- ModernMech 12y ago
  1. It's been around for a long time 2. I'd like something to put my dishes away and fold my laundry. That's a much bigger step though.
  - sourc3 12y ago
    3. Self cleaning coffee-machine is on my list. I don't quite enjoy drinking coffee that comes out of a capsule.
    - seealot 12y ago
      Have you considered an Aeropress?
    - gress 12y ago
      Chemex
- adventured 12y ago
  Any task that humans really hate to do, but like or need to have done. In one giant category: cleaning. That includes dusting, cleaning walls and ceilings, cleaning showers and tubs and toilets, cleaning windows. Cooking food. Starting initially from simple things, evolving to more elaborate combinations. Chef3000 can now cook over 500 things! Self-cleaning! Mowing the grass. Some companies are already deep into trying to solve this of course. A total laundry system (this is decades away from being practical, and may require the classic sci-fi robot that does everything). Give the system the clothing, it sorts and understands fabrics and colors, or can be trained to identify specific clothing, washes it, dries it, folds it.
cdnsteve 12y ago
I expect this is a the top of HN because people are interested in hacking their Dyson robot and write some custom Anroid/iOS apps to control it? Otherwise, it's a vacuum, or is this some type of sponsored Sears post I don't know about?
mmuro 12y ago
Good luck getting underneath furniture or cabinet overhangs!
- ctdonath 12y ago
  I'm more concerned about stairs.
  - masklinn 12y ago
    Basic roombas handle stairs and overhangs, you just need a very basic IR rangefinder on the circumference, if a finder or two "loses ground" there's probably a hole, treat as a wall.
- humblepie 12y ago
  It would be amazing if a panel on its side opens and out comes a baby robot for cleaning under smaller spaces.
cpr 12y ago
Others have commented similarly, but I just have to say that we've tried various Dysons over the years, and they always start off brilliantly. E.g., we vacuumed a nominally clean bedroom with a new Dyson upright and it was like steam-cleaning, or better, since it was dry--we pulled out a whole container's worth of dirt. But then after 6 mo to a year, they start to fall apart, with (their many internal) joints not sealing, vacuum power dropping, motors failing eventually, etc., etc. I don't think Dyson engineers understand nor design for long term durability. We've switched to Miele vacuums and couldn't be happier.
- mcgraw 12y ago
  On the flip side, I've had a Dyson for the last 5 years and it's still kicking ass despite contending with the monster amount of Siberian Husky hair that fails to stay on my husky. Extremely happy with this thing. I'd be all over them if things went south within a year.
- Andrenid 12y ago
  I've had my Dyson upright for probably nearly a decade now (or at least 7-8 years that I can account for at minimum). It started off as a vacuum for a retail store I owned, and was used every single day for about an hour solid, for about 4 years, until I sold my stores... and has since been my home vacuum being used weekly. I've never had it break down, or any parts fall off, and it still works better than any other vacuum I've tried. Maybe I just got lucky, not sure, but I've been very happy with mine.
  - teach 12y ago
    I have no doubt the Dysons made a decade ago were excellent vacuums. In my experience the ones made the past few years are very much not worthy of the good name.
    - larrys 12y ago
      Although I've had good luck with HP Printers mysef (still own several 4250's higher speed and do plenty of output with high quality) sounds like similar comments I've read about recent HP products.
melling 12y ago
So, the HN comments are pretty much negative. People seem to be overlooking the most important thing. A hugely successful product in this category will be the spark that launches the home robotics revolution. More players, more money invested, etc. I'm really not sure why robots aren't already vacuuming our floors, raking the leaves and mowing our lawns by now.
- m_eiman 12y ago
  I'm really not sure why robots aren't already vacuuming our floors, raking the leaves and mowing our lawns by now. Eh, they are? It's not like this is the first of its kind. As far as I can see its claim to fame is a more powerful suction device, the other features already exist in other products.
  - melling 12y ago
    No, they're not. Smartphones existed before the iPhone. And cars existed before Henry Ford too. There's the first to market companies then there's the company that creates the product that pushes it into the mainstream.
    - m_eiman 12y ago
      At least in Sweden, robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers have been mainstream tech for years. It's not just some enthusiast thing, a large portion of house owners have these things.
- veidr 12y ago
  Well, I think this already happened. About half the families I know have a Roomba robot vacuum or a knockoff. But it's a big step from vacuuming floors to mowing lawns with sharp blades. I don't personally have a leaf problem, but I would very much like to see a clever window-washing robot. Could be -- would preferably be! -- very slow and small. Something that runs constantly and could go home and charge/clean itself. A sibling bot could clean bathtubs and sinks (and I would love to see toilets added to that list, but that may be a bridge too far). I think robot vacuums are pretty established, but fall short of constituting a 'revolution'.
bahmutov 12y ago
Can they put panorama camera on the bottom so it can actually look under the couch to see dirt?
radicaledward 12y ago
This is the first scroll to navigate page I've encountered that worked for me at all. I can see from the comments that others are not having as much luck. This new trend seems to be a horrible waste of time (for both devs and end users). I hope it goes away soon. The page is kind of cool if it works though. As for Dysons, my parents are on their second one. The first one still mostly works, but a small clip in the back broke off. It will no longer stand up on its own. I have a small hand held one and it is really quite nice. They are definitely a bit fragile, but when they work they really work well.
sjs382 12y ago
It looks tall. So tall that it might not fit under my couch or under the first-level of some tables. Anyone know the dimensions of this?
- jonnydark 12y ago
  Haven't got a ruler to hand but it's about 4-5 inches. It's not very wide compared to others, hence why it looks tall.
  - sjs382 12y ago
    My Roomba is (according to the specs online) 3.6" tall. I'm trying to imagine the Roomba height in relation to the couch and tables... Another inch or 2 might be a deal breaker for me.
- eik3_de 12y ago
  That's what I thought. My Roomba is < 8,5 cm and I raised my wardrobe in the hall so that it just fits beneath, it charges there. But since I'm convinced dyson vacuum user, I'd get it even if it's 15 cm. It's quite narrow though, so I'm curious how it peforms between chair legs under the dining table - that's where the roomba is bad at.
timdiggerm 12y ago
What is a "digital motor"?
- DanBC 12y ago
  Dyson make a number of dubious claims. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/13087/what-is-a-digital-motor http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/13087/what-is... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor The UK regulator of advertising lists a few upheld complaints, and some informally resolved complaints against Dyson. http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications.aspx?SearchTerms=Dyson#results http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications.aspx?SearchTerms...
blueintegral 12y ago
Catadioptric omnidirectional vision is a really cool technique. I've always wondered why it isn't seen in the wild more often. I first saw this technique being used in Robocup Midsize League [1]. There's lots of good papers on doing localization and object detection with a distributed system of robots with omnidirectional cameras from that league. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acrS0kPY-J8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acrS0kPY-J8
tonylemesmer 12y ago
I worked on this product back in 2002-2005. I developed the initial wheel system for this and early prototypes of their digital (switched reluctance) motor once we realised we'd need a very high power density compressor motor. Sadly the battery technology has taken a long time to get to the point where it can now give a useable run time, even when the vacuum only consumes 100W (typical cabled vacuums use 1.7-2kw). Also the prices of other components, high power embedded CPUs, cameras and sensors have reduced dramatically since then. It uses an intelligent algorithm to maximise the potential of the runtime, meaning that it tries to elminiate running over the same patch of floor more than once. This is what it uses the 360 camera for and SLAM image processing and maths that I still don't fully understand :) The chap with grey hair switching it off at the end of the teaser video[1] is the brains behind all the navigation and image processing software, Mike Aldred, very clever guy. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ReNFlxqJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ReNFlxqJc
- wlievens 12y ago
  Do you know which image sensors it uses?
  - tonylemesmer 12y ago
    Back then (9 years ago mind!) it was a Sony sensor probably long obsolete now. 1024x1024 res which is shockingly low res but easily good enough for SLAM feature mapping.
    - IshKebab 12y ago
      It's still a Sony one. No idea which.
- martin_ 12y ago
  Video caption: "16 years. 200 engineers. £28m investment. The result? Tell us what you think it is." - wow.
teddyh 12y ago
> Available for free on IOS and Android platforms, the Dyson Link app allows you to control and schedule how and when your Dyson 360 Eye™ robot vacuum cleans. It enables you to view maps of cleaning progress, even when you're not at home. It activates your 2 year guarantee, automatically downloads software updates and, should you ever need them, provides access to troubleshooting guides. So… A device that’s remotely controllable (and updateable) from Dyson’s central server. With a built-in 360° camera.
- stronglikedan 12y ago
  * Always-on internet connection required I kid, but it does say "The Dyson Link app may not be available in all markets.", so I'm assuming that it will not require an internet connection to function properly.
joss82 12y ago
How can something so high vacuum properly under the furniture? Is that an obvious flaw, or am i mistaken?
chillingeffect 12y ago
If you're interested in the LIDAR in a similar autonomous vacuum, this great presentation by an engineer is a must-watch/listen: https://cmusv.adobeconnect.com/_a829716469/p17388090/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal https://cmusv.adobeconnect.com/_a829716469/p17388090/?launch... He gives examples of what the LIDAR sees, how the algorithms work, etc. in very clear yet technical knowledge.
- dominotw 12y ago
  Neato vacuuming robots uses LIDAR for navigation.
chiph 12y ago
I bet they didn't consider the scenario of a cat riding their vacuum, when they located the vision sensor on the top. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo
Hansi 12y ago
Bit off topic which I know isn't viewed well here but down vote if my comment angers you profoundly. My sister recently finished a MSc in Robotics and is looking for work in the UK for Dyson or a similar company. If anyone has worked in Dyson or a similar company (established or startup) and would be willing to discuss her options for applying in the industry and provide some guidance could you please e-mail me at hans@hans.is?
silver1 12y ago
WOW !!! these videos explains all ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguKCHP7jNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguKCHP7jNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadhuICDAjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadhuICDAjk
- lsaferite 12y ago
  WOW, that thing is tiny! I have a hard time imagining how it can vacuum a whole house.
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robert_tweed 12y ago
I really want to know how this compares with the LG Roboking. Inevitably, all the comparisons (especially those in Dyson's own marketing) will be with Roomba, which has terrible AI, terrible suction, terrible range and hasn't significantly changed since the first version released in 2002. Back in 2002, the "insect" AI was actually quite innovative, and necessary for the computing power available at the time, but it's not 2002 anymore. The latest Robokings are much closer to the Dyson in terms of AI (possibly better as details on the Dyson are still a bit vague). For example, it will map out a route through multiple rooms. If it needs to recharge, it will return to its base station and pick up where it left off. Unlike the Roomba, it does not use a random pattern so it will generally achieve about 97% coverage, compared to about 75% coverage for Roomba. It will also do it in roughly half the time. The Dyson will likely have better suction, but presumably it still won't be good enough to completely replace a standard vacuum, so that may not matter at all. I think the things that matter most in a robot vacuum are: - Can it clean multiple rooms efficiently, recharge itself when necessary and pick up where it left off after emptying its dust compartment? - How quickly can it do that? - How much noise does it make when it's running? - Will it avoid getting trapped on rugs, curtains, under couches, etc? Ideally, it should empty its own dust compartment too. As far as I know, Karcher make the only robovac that does this and I'm not sure how it stacks up in other areas. Plus it is really, really expensive.
partition 12y ago
They claim that avoiding vacuuming the same area twice saves power, but is that true in every situation? Math-wise, it seems possible for a self-avoiding path (with thickness) to be _longer_ than a similar path (with thickness) that does self-intersect, so the vacuum is on longer, so it actually consumes more power. Edit: And if you do go over the same spot twice, you should be able to detect that with your navigation system so that you can turn the brushes and suction off or something.

Dyson 360 Eye

182 points by jmiseikis 12y ago

richbradshaw 12y ago

Is pricing available yet? I've been thinking about a robot vacuum since I moved into a new house with all hard floors.

mrfusion 12y ago
If you have to ask you can't afford it ...
SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
Excellent question, I'd like to know too. I don't see any prices, but I'd guess somewhere in the region of "expensive".
uptown 12y ago
According to the DailyMail, it will cost around £750, or around $1230. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2743185/Dyson-launches-world-s-smart-robot-vacuum-live-cameras-map-house-puts-away.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2743185/Dyson...
- nodata 12y ago
  £750 is normally around $750
  - uptown 12y ago
    Your conversion is probably more-accurate. I was just going with Google's conversion, but if you compare pricing for currently-available Dyson models in the US and the UK, the conversion-rate is closer to 1:1 after available US discounts.
  - endersshadow 12y ago
    It's really not: https://www.google.com/finance?q=GBPUSD https://www.google.com/finance?q=GBPUSD
    - gamegoblin 12y ago
      OP was probably referring to the fact that things sold in the UK are generally more expensive than the US. Something sold in the US for $100 might be £100 in the UK, even though the conversion rate would have you think it should be £60.

veidr 12y ago

I always thought Dyson was crap, based solely on their obnoxious ads and garish design. Then I bought my wife their cordless upright vacuum for her birthday (I know, I know, but she asked for it). I was astonished when the vacuum became my favorite piece of tech in the whole house. We have a roomba that works fine, but it's extremely hard to imagine that I won't buy this thing immediately.

skrebbel 12y ago
You forgot to include your core argument - why did the vacuum become your favorite piece of tech in the whole house? EDIT: for the downvote mafia: I genuinely want to know. Not every short comment is a snark.
- veidr 12y ago
  Hmm, yeah, why? I haven't reflected on that, so let me do so now: It's super light (a grown man can operate the vacuum and hold a beer with the same hand, while holding a baby with the other arm), and yet it is SUPER powerful (I just leave mine in MAX mode, which only lasts for 6 minutes between recharges -- but that's plenty). It's extremely, unbelievably easy to clean/empty (just push one button while holding it over the trash bin) and also somehow doesn't accumulate film of disgusting 'dustbestos' like all other no-bag vacuums I've experienced... so it stays clean. It seems to be extremely durable... having survived many combats and forced marches at the hands of my 2-year-old son. It has an instant trigger, seems to go from of to full power in 10ms or less (I mean you can't detect it; squeeze the trigger in quick staccato bursts, and it's just all like VREEEEEEEEEEEER!!! VREER!! VREER!!) Despite the light weight, it is extremely POWERFUL. Much better than the $600 tow-the-pod-around corded Hitachi we had before, at a fraction of the size, weight, and yet it doesn't even have a cord. Um... I think that's all. OH WAIT THERE'S MORE!!! I almost forgot the awesome wall mounted charger. Like an idiot, I didn't bother to screw the wall mount thing to the wall for the first few months. Finally, I did. Once you do that, any vacuum that isn't conveniently mounted on the wall is a ridiculous piece of shit. (Note that ours is mounted on the wall inside the kitchen closet; doesn't have to be shown off like some piece of very ugly art.) The wall mount makes it more convenient to access and replace than any vacuum I've had previously. So what are the cons? For one, it looks ridiculous, like a space weapon from a $300-budget high school sci-fi movie. But hmm that's about it. Love that thing. EDIT: some of the downstream comments seem to be talking about some other model. (I think maybe 'upright vacuum' doesn't mean what I think it means.) The one I have is either this one or a very similar model: http://www.amazon.com/Dyson-DC35-Digital-Slim-cordless/dp/B004GN8UYA/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1409836638&sr=1-1&keywords=dyson+dc-35 http://www.amazon.com/Dyson-DC35-Digital-Slim-cordless/dp/B0...

unwind 12y ago

Fantastically annoying page design. Scrolling takes many seconds to just show the next page, with no indication that anything is happening. Just blank blackness. Then each page requires you to hunt and click little circles with pluses in them, just to show a paragraph or two of copy. Would it have killed them to just present all the text at once? Perhaps use tabs or some other "normal" solution to the problem of wanting to talk about different aspects of a product? This whole "scroll to begin" paradigm is so annoying, I think the fact that they felt they had to include that little helper just to tell people how to get to the content is an indication that perhaps a better design exists. Still, I'm glad that there's a robotic vacuum cleaner with better optical bandwidth than humans. I'm sure that's a major selling point in (robotic) vacuums. (Also, this is a re-post of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8267476 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8267476).

lorddoig 12y ago
I was thinking the opposite - navigates on scroll down as I expected and joy-of-joys it's in the magazine style (that has an actual name I forget), but unlike most it doesn't hijack the back button.
- dtaveras 12y ago
  I have to agree with you - Apple also used this style for their Mac Pro page! http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/ http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
runemadsen 12y ago
Yes, this is terrible. Don't kill my scroll.
bitJericho 12y ago
Yeah that page was a joy to use. I think you're browser was probably not rendering it. Looked great on Firefox.
- MattBearman 12y ago

kbar13 12y ago

dyson is the new apple

bichiliad 12y ago

"This unique 360° vision system uses complex mathematics, probability theory, geometry and trigonometry to map and navigate a room. So it knows where it is, where it’s been and where it’s yet to clean." I hate the "Oh, why don't we use slightly complex words to make the consumers feel impressed" marketing practice. Like when shampoo ads use phrases like "advanced [made-up-word] technology." Edit: That was a bit grumpier than it should have been. I haven't had coffee yet.

ModernMech 12y ago
Eh, everyone does this. I see HNers do it all the time adding "with machine learning" to some otherwise mundane problem to make it sound more interesting/impressive.
Schwolop 12y ago
Unique? Hmmm... for a vacuum cleaner, maybe. For indoor robotics, not so much. It's fairly standard Visual-SLAM.
- m_eiman 12y ago
  Not unique for a vacuum; Samsung have been selling SLAM-ing bots for four years, at least: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/09/samsung-navibot-sr8845-sr8855-vacuum-cleaner-hands-on/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/09/samsung-navibot-sr8845-sr...
Grue3 12y ago
I'm pretty sure the software in the vacuum actually makes use of all of these. But then, so does your average roguelike.
krisoft 12y ago
I have heard multiple people to complain that Roombas are just wandering around randomly. It's worth to note that none of these complainers had a Roomba at home, so the issue might only be a perceived one. But nevertheless in marketing these things count, and who knows? Maybe Dyson tried it and found the sensored version superior in engineering terms too. So on one hand you have people complaining about 'random movements', and you have an automated vac which doesn't do that. How do you communicate this? The feature is clearly important enough for them to put it in the name. It's not called Dyson TankTrack or Dyson DoubleBristle, it's called Dyson 360 Eye. So they could say: "doesn't move randomly" but that's probably not true, and doesn't sound any good. Quite likely it falls back to random wandering to re-locate from a kidnaped-robot situation. Besides negative statements ought to be avoided because they focus the costumer on what you don't have, instead of what you have. (at least so it goes the marketing wisdom) They could also just say: "does SLAM (Simultaneous Localization and Mapping)" would be accurate, and would be totally cryptic for anyone who is not in the know. Of course I haven't tested the robot, but if it does what they imply, then the consumer shouldn't feel impressed because of the complex words. They should feel impressed because this is impressive. Does it vacuum better? Who knows, we will see.

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omgtehlion 12y ago

Automatic localization is bad. This is why: https://yadi.sk/i/W5YUMQq6b2aXi https://yadi.sk/i/W5YUMQq6b2aXi

poglet 12y ago
Is there a way to change the page to English? Unfortunately it's not as simple as changing the URL. Edit: Clicking the globe icon then changing country. Mine was stuck in Japanese.

allegory 12y ago

Unreliable, expensive parts, poor design and now they're introducing more technology and robotics!?! I've owned a few Dyson products - totally horrid. Never again. The only positive think I can say is that their service department sends out parts quickly.

xexers 12y ago

So, it drives around your home with WiFi internet access and a 360 degree video camera. Privacy concerns?

rglover 12y ago
"I'm just sweeping the floors, bro. Don't mind me."
msabalau 12y ago
Given that 50 million domestic workers are employed worldwide in people's homes, perhaps many people won't actually waste their time worrying about the "privacy" implications of a device which presumably isn't designed to upload video, but instead receive smartphone instructions.
rtkwe 12y ago
Possibly, but it'd be pretty damn easy to tell if they were ever streaming video out, just check for any massive upstream communications by it's MAC.

electic 12y ago

Probably won't even considering buying this vacuum due to the page design. The images didn't load. Jerk scroll. What a mess.

maguirre 12y ago

For the web inclined guys here. What techniques are used to show motion/animation? looks quite smooth/impressive

dimxasnewfrozen 12y ago
It's a series of images and videos is looks like. The video plays and then overlays an image (in the exact location that the video ended) on each scroll/navigation.
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
HTML5 video, I'm sure. They used that on the Mac Pro website too - they had two videos for each 'image', one forward, and one in reverse. Some JS playback controls linked to scrolling, and that's pretty much it. Very nice results though.
UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
As a web developer and web user I completely refuse to tell you, otherwise I worry you might copy this horrendous site design elsewhere. This is a site anti-pattern (at least at desktop resolution). The site is only readable when I shrink the browser down until that terrible animated nonsense goes away.
andyhmltn 12y ago
It seems heavily inspired by the recent Apple Mac Pro page redesign which is dissected here: https://ihatetomatoes.net/apple-mac-pro-page-deconstructed/ https://ihatetomatoes.net/apple-mac-pro-page-deconstructed/ Personally, I hate this kind of design as it breaks the scroll but it's interesting to see how it works none-the-less
deanclatworthy 12y ago
It cycles through images based on scroll position. My colleague built a site that uses technique and made a library to make managing it easier. The site: http://download.kone.com/ultrarope/index.htm http://download.kone.com/ultrarope/index.htm The code: https://github.com/kontur/jquery.video-frame-animation https://github.com/kontur/jquery.video-frame-animation

delsarto 12y ago

"17,000 rpm with digital pulse technology" ... I guess that means a PWM DC motor controller?

githulhu 12y ago
"Digital motor" raised my eyebrow too. Apparently it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor Guess marketing didn't think "Reluctance motor" had quite the same ring, and I'd tend to agree.
- jonah 12y ago
  Linked from that page is this article which goes into the design and development of the motor a bit: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/dyson-vacuums-104000rpm-brushless-dc-technology-2009-06/ http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/dyson-vac...
headShrinker 12y ago
Correction, it's a 73,000 rpm motor!

bglazer 12y ago

Lots of negativity in the comments. A couple questions: 1. For the robotics people, is the "360° eye" camera an innovation, or is this already a standard component of robotic vision? 2. What's the next step for robotics in the house after vacuums?

ModernMech 12y ago
1. It's been around for a long time 2. I'd like something to put my dishes away and fold my laundry. That's a much bigger step though.
- sourc3 12y ago
  3. Self cleaning coffee-machine is on my list. I don't quite enjoy drinking coffee that comes out of a capsule.
  - seealot 12y ago
    Have you considered an Aeropress?
  - gress 12y ago
    Chemex
adventured 12y ago
Any task that humans really hate to do, but like or need to have done. In one giant category: cleaning. That includes dusting, cleaning walls and ceilings, cleaning showers and tubs and toilets, cleaning windows. Cooking food. Starting initially from simple things, evolving to more elaborate combinations. Chef3000 can now cook over 500 things! Self-cleaning! Mowing the grass. Some companies are already deep into trying to solve this of course. A total laundry system (this is decades away from being practical, and may require the classic sci-fi robot that does everything). Give the system the clothing, it sorts and understands fabrics and colors, or can be trained to identify specific clothing, washes it, dries it, folds it.

cdnsteve 12y ago

I expect this is a the top of HN because people are interested in hacking their Dyson robot and write some custom Anroid/iOS apps to control it? Otherwise, it's a vacuum, or is this some type of sponsored Sears post I don't know about?

mmuro 12y ago

Good luck getting underneath furniture or cabinet overhangs!

ctdonath 12y ago
I'm more concerned about stairs.
- masklinn 12y ago
  Basic roombas handle stairs and overhangs, you just need a very basic IR rangefinder on the circumference, if a finder or two "loses ground" there's probably a hole, treat as a wall.
humblepie 12y ago
It would be amazing if a panel on its side opens and out comes a baby robot for cleaning under smaller spaces.

cpr 12y ago

Others have commented similarly, but I just have to say that we've tried various Dysons over the years, and they always start off brilliantly. E.g., we vacuumed a nominally clean bedroom with a new Dyson upright and it was like steam-cleaning, or better, since it was dry--we pulled out a whole container's worth of dirt. But then after 6 mo to a year, they start to fall apart, with (their many internal) joints not sealing, vacuum power dropping, motors failing eventually, etc., etc. I don't think Dyson engineers understand nor design for long term durability. We've switched to Miele vacuums and couldn't be happier.

mcgraw 12y ago
On the flip side, I've had a Dyson for the last 5 years and it's still kicking ass despite contending with the monster amount of Siberian Husky hair that fails to stay on my husky. Extremely happy with this thing. I'd be all over them if things went south within a year.
Andrenid 12y ago
I've had my Dyson upright for probably nearly a decade now (or at least 7-8 years that I can account for at minimum). It started off as a vacuum for a retail store I owned, and was used every single day for about an hour solid, for about 4 years, until I sold my stores... and has since been my home vacuum being used weekly. I've never had it break down, or any parts fall off, and it still works better than any other vacuum I've tried. Maybe I just got lucky, not sure, but I've been very happy with mine.
- teach 12y ago
  I have no doubt the Dysons made a decade ago were excellent vacuums. In my experience the ones made the past few years are very much not worthy of the good name.
  - larrys 12y ago
    Although I've had good luck with HP Printers mysef (still own several 4250's higher speed and do plenty of output with high quality) sounds like similar comments I've read about recent HP products.

melling 12y ago

So, the HN comments are pretty much negative. People seem to be overlooking the most important thing. A hugely successful product in this category will be the spark that launches the home robotics revolution. More players, more money invested, etc. I'm really not sure why robots aren't already vacuuming our floors, raking the leaves and mowing our lawns by now.

m_eiman 12y ago
I'm really not sure why robots aren't already vacuuming our floors, raking the leaves and mowing our lawns by now. Eh, they are? It's not like this is the first of its kind. As far as I can see its claim to fame is a more powerful suction device, the other features already exist in other products.
- melling 12y ago
  No, they're not. Smartphones existed before the iPhone. And cars existed before Henry Ford too. There's the first to market companies then there's the company that creates the product that pushes it into the mainstream.
  - m_eiman 12y ago
    At least in Sweden, robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers have been mainstream tech for years. It's not just some enthusiast thing, a large portion of house owners have these things.
veidr 12y ago
Well, I think this already happened. About half the families I know have a Roomba robot vacuum or a knockoff. But it's a big step from vacuuming floors to mowing lawns with sharp blades. I don't personally have a leaf problem, but I would very much like to see a clever window-washing robot. Could be -- would preferably be! -- very slow and small. Something that runs constantly and could go home and charge/clean itself. A sibling bot could clean bathtubs and sinks (and I would love to see toilets added to that list, but that may be a bridge too far). I think robot vacuums are pretty established, but fall short of constituting a 'revolution'.

bahmutov 12y ago

Can they put panorama camera on the bottom so it can actually look under the couch to see dirt?

radicaledward 12y ago

This is the first scroll to navigate page I've encountered that worked for me at all. I can see from the comments that others are not having as much luck. This new trend seems to be a horrible waste of time (for both devs and end users). I hope it goes away soon. The page is kind of cool if it works though. As for Dysons, my parents are on their second one. The first one still mostly works, but a small clip in the back broke off. It will no longer stand up on its own. I have a small hand held one and it is really quite nice. They are definitely a bit fragile, but when they work they really work well.

sjs382 12y ago

It looks tall. So tall that it might not fit under my couch or under the first-level of some tables. Anyone know the dimensions of this?

jonnydark 12y ago
Haven't got a ruler to hand but it's about 4-5 inches. It's not very wide compared to others, hence why it looks tall.
- sjs382 12y ago
  My Roomba is (according to the specs online) 3.6" tall. I'm trying to imagine the Roomba height in relation to the couch and tables... Another inch or 2 might be a deal breaker for me.
eik3_de 12y ago
That's what I thought. My Roomba is < 8,5 cm and I raised my wardrobe in the hall so that it just fits beneath, it charges there. But since I'm convinced dyson vacuum user, I'd get it even if it's 15 cm. It's quite narrow though, so I'm curious how it peforms between chair legs under the dining table - that's where the roomba is bad at.

timdiggerm 12y ago

What is a "digital motor"?

DanBC 12y ago
Dyson make a number of dubious claims. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/13087/what-is-a-digital-motor http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/13087/what-is... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor The UK regulator of advertising lists a few upheld complaints, and some informally resolved complaints against Dyson. http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications.aspx?SearchTerms=Dyson#results http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications.aspx?SearchTerms...

blueintegral 12y ago

Catadioptric omnidirectional vision is a really cool technique. I've always wondered why it isn't seen in the wild more often. I first saw this technique being used in Robocup Midsize League [1]. There's lots of good papers on doing localization and object detection with a distributed system of robots with omnidirectional cameras from that league. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acrS0kPY-J8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acrS0kPY-J8

tonylemesmer 12y ago

I worked on this product back in 2002-2005. I developed the initial wheel system for this and early prototypes of their digital (switched reluctance) motor once we realised we'd need a very high power density compressor motor. Sadly the battery technology has taken a long time to get to the point where it can now give a useable run time, even when the vacuum only consumes 100W (typical cabled vacuums use 1.7-2kw). Also the prices of other components, high power embedded CPUs, cameras and sensors have reduced dramatically since then. It uses an intelligent algorithm to maximise the potential of the runtime, meaning that it tries to elminiate running over the same patch of floor more than once. This is what it uses the 360 camera for and SLAM image processing and maths that I still don't fully understand :) The chap with grey hair switching it off at the end of the teaser video[1] is the brains behind all the navigation and image processing software, Mike Aldred, very clever guy. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ReNFlxqJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ReNFlxqJc

wlievens 12y ago
Do you know which image sensors it uses?
- tonylemesmer 12y ago
  Back then (9 years ago mind!) it was a Sony sensor probably long obsolete now. 1024x1024 res which is shockingly low res but easily good enough for SLAM feature mapping.
  - IshKebab 12y ago
    It's still a Sony one. No idea which.
martin_ 12y ago
Video caption: "16 years. 200 engineers. £28m investment. The result? Tell us what you think it is." - wow.

teddyh 12y ago

> Available for free on IOS and Android platforms, the Dyson Link app allows you to control and schedule how and when your Dyson 360 Eye™ robot vacuum cleans. It enables you to view maps of cleaning progress, even when you're not at home. It activates your 2 year guarantee, automatically downloads software updates and, should you ever need them, provides access to troubleshooting guides. So… A device that’s remotely controllable (and updateable) from Dyson’s central server. With a built-in 360° camera.

stronglikedan 12y ago
* Always-on internet connection required I kid, but it does say "The Dyson Link app may not be available in all markets.", so I'm assuming that it will not require an internet connection to function properly.

joss82 12y ago

How can something so high vacuum properly under the furniture? Is that an obvious flaw, or am i mistaken?

chillingeffect 12y ago

If you're interested in the LIDAR in a similar autonomous vacuum, this great presentation by an engineer is a must-watch/listen: https://cmusv.adobeconnect.com/_a829716469/p17388090/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal https://cmusv.adobeconnect.com/_a829716469/p17388090/?launch... He gives examples of what the LIDAR sees, how the algorithms work, etc. in very clear yet technical knowledge.

dominotw 12y ago
Neato vacuuming robots uses LIDAR for navigation.

chiph 12y ago

I bet they didn't consider the scenario of a cat riding their vacuum, when they located the vision sensor on the top. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo

Hansi 12y ago

Bit off topic which I know isn't viewed well here but down vote if my comment angers you profoundly. My sister recently finished a MSc in Robotics and is looking for work in the UK for Dyson or a similar company. If anyone has worked in Dyson or a similar company (established or startup) and would be willing to discuss her options for applying in the industry and provide some guidance could you please e-mail me at hans@hans.is?

silver1 12y ago

WOW !!! these videos explains all ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguKCHP7jNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguKCHP7jNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadhuICDAjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadhuICDAjk

lsaferite 12y ago
WOW, that thing is tiny! I have a hard time imagining how it can vacuum a whole house.

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robert_tweed 12y ago

I really want to know how this compares with the LG Roboking. Inevitably, all the comparisons (especially those in Dyson's own marketing) will be with Roomba, which has terrible AI, terrible suction, terrible range and hasn't significantly changed since the first version released in 2002. Back in 2002, the "insect" AI was actually quite innovative, and necessary for the computing power available at the time, but it's not 2002 anymore. The latest Robokings are much closer to the Dyson in terms of AI (possibly better as details on the Dyson are still a bit vague). For example, it will map out a route through multiple rooms. If it needs to recharge, it will return to its base station and pick up where it left off. Unlike the Roomba, it does not use a random pattern so it will generally achieve about 97% coverage, compared to about 75% coverage for Roomba. It will also do it in roughly half the time. The Dyson will likely have better suction, but presumably it still won't be good enough to completely replace a standard vacuum, so that may not matter at all. I think the things that matter most in a robot vacuum are: - Can it clean multiple rooms efficiently, recharge itself when necessary and pick up where it left off after emptying its dust compartment? - How quickly can it do that? - How much noise does it make when it's running? - Will it avoid getting trapped on rugs, curtains, under couches, etc? Ideally, it should empty its own dust compartment too. As far as I know, Karcher make the only robovac that does this and I'm not sure how it stacks up in other areas. Plus it is really, really expensive.

partition 12y ago

They claim that avoiding vacuuming the same area twice saves power, but is that true in every situation? Math-wise, it seems possible for a self-avoiding path (with thickness) to be _longer_ than a similar path (with thickness) that does self-intersect, so the vacuum is on longer, so it actually consumes more power. Edit: And if you do go over the same spot twice, you should be able to detect that with your navigation system so that you can turn the brushes and suction off or something.