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Malaysia B772 has crashed near Donetsk

373 points by jahaja 12y ago

qvolte 12y ago
Not sure whether this is true https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/statuses/489795402892591104 https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/statuses/489795402892591104
pinkskip 12y ago
This is so tragic, A second MAS plane involved in an incident in 2014. Thoughts are with the loved ones and families of the people onboard MH17
etimberg 12y ago
Reuters quoting Interfax reports that it was brought down by a surface to air missile. https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489795394411712513 https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489795394411712513
- doe88 12y ago
  I'm wondering, if it is confirmed it is a missile, are there any precedent of civilian plane shot-down like that in modern history (post WWII)? Edit: Thanks great replies!
  - wooster 12y ago
    Yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
  - nrau 12y ago
    There absolutely is precedence for this. The US shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the Russians shot down a Korean airliner in 1983: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
  - spullara 12y ago
    Plenty of them: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_in...
  - pfg 12y ago
    Looks like there were quite a few incidents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_inci... (The only one I've heard of before was Iran Air Flight 655)
  - dfkf 12y ago
    Iran Air Flight 655, Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, and of course Korean Air Lines Flight 007, but it was shot down by air-to-air missile.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - claudius 12y ago
    There are numerous examples, although “like that” is of course a difficult requirement, given that we don’t know what happened yet :) Some examples (in no particular ordering): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arab_Airlines_Flight_114 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902 (air-to-air, not ground-to-air missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_825 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_827 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 (air-to-air, not ground-to-air missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_TAAG_Angola_Airlines_Boeing_737_crash
  - Ecio78 12y ago
    La Strage di Ustica ("Ustica Massacre"): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870 After more than 30 years we still don't know for sure what happened...
    - toyg 12y ago
      Well, we actually do, really. The French government refused for 30 years to have their pilots interviewed about the issue, relenting only very recently. They even deployed a cover operation to take charge of recovering the relic and mislead investigators. NATO actively impeded investigation at various points, quoting secrecy rules etc etc. The Italian military miraculously "failed" to keep proper records of their radars, and the government actively misled investigators and the public at the time. It's now widely accepted that the Itavia 870 was downed by a NATO plane, likely French, likely engaged in some sort of anti-Lybic operation.
      - Ecio78 12y ago
        Yes, but I meant, with all the details, and with all the nations involved taking their own responsibilities. Who knows, maybe in 50 years they will unveil the state secrecy and we'll know it for sure..
  - thom 12y ago
    It wasn't so long ago that Ukraine shot a Russian airliner down (perhaps accidentally, perhaps not): http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/14/world/after-9-days-ukraine-says-its-missile-hit-a-russian-jet.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/14/world/after-9-days-ukraine...
- magnacartic 12y ago
  So, the blame is on Russia. https://www.facebook.com/butusov.yuriy/posts/802946763078955 https://www.facebook.com/butusov.yuriy/posts/802946763078955
  - dfkf 12y ago
    Yuriy Butusov is a Ukrainian chairborne commandо. His opinion on all things Russia is known in advance and so is irrelevant.
Alupis 12y ago
Reports are stating they believe it may have been shot down.
jonnycowboy 12y ago
Last known position right around Ukraine/Russian border.
- justnotsure 12y ago
  This. All I need to know what happened.
  - toyg 12y ago
    I wouldn't jump to conclusions if I were you -- from the actual track record[1], it looks like the middle of the country, rather than near the border. It's not even over one of the "troubled" eastern regions, nowhere near "rebels" or Russian troops. [1] https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/photo/1 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/...
    - justnotsure 12y ago
      Doneck region isn't troubled Eastern region? Where are you getting your news from? KGB TV aka Russia TV ?
      - toyg 12y ago
        Mh, ok, apologies - i trusted the pic rather than the report. The pic shows a position well outside the Donetsk area. Still, it's weird that the last tracked position shown on that pic is to the West of Donetsk and very much outside the troubled area, but the reported crash site is just to the East of Donetsk, deep into "rebel" territory. Could that be an artifact of the tracking system?
  - levosmetalo 12y ago
    Yep. It's clear that USA shot it down so they can blame the Russians. And Ukrainian officials will gladly confirm. </sarcasm>
deleted 12y ago
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- deleted 12y ago
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  - ddoolin 12y ago
    What in the world would make you write something so asinine in response to what was essentially mourning the death of 295 people? You're not cute. You're a dick.
eliben 12y ago
Isn't the Donetsk area a war zone now? Why do commercial flights fly over it?
- ddoolin 12y ago
  First thing that came to my mind, too.
- lsh123 12y ago
  They closed airspace up to FL260 (I believe). The 777 was probably at FL360 or above.
  - unchocked 12y ago
    What is the smallest SAM that can reach that altitude?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - john_b 12y ago
    Interfax claims it was flying at 10km: https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489794112212959232 https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489794112212959232
    - lsh123 12y ago
      10Km ~ FL330. It is lower than I would expect (the higher you go the less fuel you burn) but still well above FL260.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Open doesn't necessarily mean "excellent choice for flying through" though. I'm sure it was allowed, but it doesn't seem like a good idea.
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  Especially considering the fact non-commercial planes have been getting shot down in the last few days in that area. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28345039 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28345039
peterjancelis 12y ago
Interfax said it was shot down. Russia - via their ambassador at the United Nations - denied involvement already. Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. Edit: I am talking about the US-Russian relationship deteriorating because of the (blamed) intent, not the number of casualties or the strength of the Malaysian army. Edit 2: Thanks for the links on previous situations like this. Reassuring.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- levosmetalo 12y ago
  > Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. Don't worry. Malaysia can join forces with Thailand, and then together attack all of their neighbours, but that would hardly make an impact to the "world order".
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    You could say the same thing about Austria going after Serbia.
    - levosmetalo 12y ago
      No, it was not only Austria going after Serbia, but Austria and Germany together going after all of their neighbours, including Serbia, France, Russia, Belgium, ...
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        Not until Russia started to mobilize to defend Serbia. Australia versus Serbia would've been a minor conflict if it weren't for the various defensive agreements the Great Powers had with smaller states.
        levosmetalo 12y ago
blantonl 12y ago
Regardless of what caused this plane to go down, how Malaysia Airlines survives as a company going forward will be study in crisis management for many years.
- alextgordon 12y ago
  It may be much more damaging to them. As far as anybody knows, MH370 wasn't the fault of Malaysia Airlines. This is a whole another level. If they really approved a flight plan to fly over a war zone... I just can't... WTF.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    Passenger planes fly over Iraq and Afghanistan regularly, without incident. There was not much reason to believe Ukraine or the rebels would be idiotic enough to target civilian passenger planes in this manner.
    - omegant 12y ago
      During the hard times of the war no commercial planes flew over Irak or Afghanistan. There is no problem flying through zones with low capability insurgency, it's done all the time. But given the high tension nature ofthe Ukranian conflict it just doesn't make sense to fly over that areas. I recently flew to Moscow and our route was quite far to the north, but I would have changed it if necessary. It's a pilot's decission, but also a flight planer and Chief pilot hands to modify dangerous routes.
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        Every point of the Iraq and Afghan wars have been "harder times" than the current Ukraine conflict.
    - sn41 12y ago
      There are incidents: http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/spicejet-flight-escapes-rocket-attack-in-kabul-airport/article6177698.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/spicej...
lsh123 12y ago
5th hull-loss and 2nd crash with fatalities for 777. EDIT: I am not saying that 777 should withstand SAM attack. However these numbers are remarkable and show the reliability of the plane that have been in operations for almost 20 years and flew in all corners of the world.
- crazypyro 12y ago
  Hard to design passenger planes for what is a (suspected) rocket though....
- modoc 12y ago
  Hard to blame the airframe if it really was a SAM....
  - lsh123 12y ago
    It just shows how reliable is 777
    - lsh123 12y ago
      I guess people misunderstand my comment - I am not saying 777 (or any other plane) can withstand the SAM. It's remarkable that in almost 20 years in operations all over the world, only a very small number of planes have been lost.
      - crazypyro 12y ago
        I apologize for the downvotes your comment received then. (Not from me) I think many people, myself included, wrongly assumed you were insulting the quality of the 777, not complimenting it.
        lsh123 12y ago
        Thanks for the note. I guess the numbers are so obvious for me that I didn't expect others to react so differently.
k-mcgrady 12y ago
Some interesting info on the speculation it was shot down: A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (9.7 miles) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar. That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range. The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles. The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856 Edit: Amateur video reportedly showing aftermath of the crash (from a distance): http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-crashes-ukraine-video http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/17/malaysia-...
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Flight track: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/photo/1 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/...
- atwebb 12y ago
  I know it's early but Sky is reporting that Ukraine confirms it was an attack: https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/489796240163745793 https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/489796240163745793
  - pdabbadabba 12y ago
    Ukrainian officials may have said as much -- and they may be right -- but given Ukraine's obvious interest in this situation, it may be a stretch to say that they are capable, on their own, of "confirming" anything about it.
    - atwebb 12y ago
      Definitely a valid point and all early information should be taken very cautiously.
lsh123 12y ago
This is not the first case of missiles hitting a plane in Ukraine in recent history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
mladenkovacevic 12y ago
Somebody really really wants this war to proceed and won't take no for an answer.
- qwerta 12y ago
  This just sucks. Ukraine used to be very nice and safe country for backpacking. Now it will turn into Somalia.
  - nsxwolf 12y ago
    Well, shit. I'm sorry if this ruins your backpacking plans.
  - gk1 12y ago
    Really? This is what bothers you the most about this war? I don't think you'll have any trouble finding other poor countries that haven't yet erupted in full-out war.
    - qwerta 12y ago
      And what I am suppose to write? I have friends there, and it is practically in my backyard.
mkr-hn 12y ago
As with all tragedies, be skeptical of early reports. Especially those that identify a cause.
yuvadam 12y ago
Unrelated but relevant: TWA 800 crashed off the coast of NY on July 17, 1996, 18 years ago. [Why the downvotes? Clearly stated _unrelated_. Just a stupid fact.]
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  That popped into my head as soon as I saw this story as I was reading about TWA 800 recently. Strange coincidence considering how rare an event this is.
  - yuvadam 12y ago
    Same here. Just this morning I recalled TWA 800, the date always pops up from the calendar, I can't forget it.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    The birthday paradox tells us that we'd expect to see coincidences like this after less than 30 crashes.
- mikeash 12y ago
  "Unrelated but relevant" is an oxymoron. Edit: it occurs to me that you might legitimately not understand the downvotes. TWA 800 was the center of a lot of conspiracy theories about it being shot down by a US Navy missile, up to and including purported eyewitness accounts of a missile plume. Drawing the comparison between what looks likely to be a shootdown and a relatively mundane fuel tank explosion that spawned lots of conspiracy theories about a shootdown is a good way to sound like a conspiracy nut.
  - k-mcgrady 12y ago
    I was also down voted. Had no idea about the conspiracy theories (I'm not American). Just saw a documentary about it recently.
    - mikeash 12y ago
mp4box 12y ago
looks like this is the flight http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/10...
brainless 12y ago
Is it too much to speculate that Malaysia Airlines or Malaysia is being targeted? Two flights in a year. Bringing a plane down from 33,000 feet is not that easy.
- eclipxe 12y ago
  Yes, it is too much to speculate that.
- mikeash 12y ago
  Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
korzun 12y ago
Malaysia Airlines should be shut down. They can't keep track of their planes and can't properly investigate crashes. Now they are sending a plane over an active war zone with air space restrictions (hint: even if its restricted to 10K, flying at 30K is not OK). Feels like they are running a amateur shit show over there with little to no regulations. I can picture bunch of ex-cab drivers who are no in charge of plane routing green lighting this flight in between their 100th smoke break.
- saryant 12y ago
  At the time the plane lost contact, Singapore Air had other flights near the MH flight, as did other airlines. Not sure MH can be blamed for that as they aren't the only airline flying in the area. http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/#3d6095b http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/#3d6095b http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sq333#3d3c1a6 http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sq333#3d3c1a6 Also, commercial flights from Europe to India fly over Afghanistan every day, no one is concerned about that.
  - korzun 12y ago
    I can't load those links but the better example would be to see which carriers avoided the no-fly zone.} Also, I don't think it's fair to compare Afghanistan and their weak and limited S2A technology to technology used by Russia and Ukraine.
    - saryant 12y ago
      MH, SQ, LH and TG all fly over Donetsk. BA and NH appear to avoid it.
      - korzun 12y ago
        Interesting. Thanks. If they can avoid it, then news like this: > http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/ukrainian-military-transport-plane-shot-down-201471423420802306.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/ukrainian-milit... Would make me go 'hey guys, let's avoid this route for now'.
spacefight 12y ago
Avherald might be slow, copy is at http://www.aeroinside.com/item/4365/malaysia-b772-near-donetsk-on-jul-17th-2014-disappeared-from-radar http://www.aeroinside.com/item/4365/malaysia-b772-near-donet...
dm2 12y ago
Does anyone have any idea what types of terrorist controlled surface-to-air missiles would be able to take out this aircraft? Would any of these systems have prevented it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_Guardian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_Guardian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMPS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMPS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard BTW, according to the Guardian article a MANPAD can be purchased for as little as $5,000. Apparently this was something else such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system I know this happened before, but shooting down civilian aircraft cannot be tolerated.
- tdobson 12y ago
  Some media reports say (citing official ukrian reports and AP visuals in the region) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
  - dm2 12y ago
    That's what this article says: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-airplane-idUSKBN0FM1TU20140717 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-a... What is a "Pro-Russian militant"? At what point are they considered part of the Russian armed forces?
    - knodi123 12y ago
      when they are wearing a uniform and holding an official rank
      - dm2 12y ago
        Are these types of "terrorists" targeted by Putin or are they ignored because they're not targeting Russians?
- mikecb 12y ago
  Report say it was flying too high for a manpad. These countermeasures wouldn't work against a Buk or other radar guided missile.
Oculus 12y ago
History always repeats itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
jhprks 12y ago
Christian God has saved these people in Malaysia B772, let us all praise the Lord and get on board with the saved ones and prepare to join our Lord and Savior in Heaven that's located just outskirts of the visible universe.
micahgoulart 12y ago
First pictures of the downed plane are already showing up on Twitter. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswmWPwIIAAAZi1.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswmWPwIIAAAZi1.jpg:large
yaakov34 12y ago
Ukraine has previously closed all airspace over the east of the country to civilian flights. I know that lynch mobs form very quickly online, especially to attack unpopular people, but in this case, the responsibility of directing a civilian plane into closed airspace over a rebel-held region where a vicious battle with tanks, airplanes, and artillery has raged for months is shared between two parties: the Ukrainian air traffic control (the airplane crossed the length of the country before being shot down) and the pilots. Now, these rebels may be the worst people in the world since Cain - I am not taking up the politics of this at all - but even if they did shoot this plane down, they acted reasonably given their military situation: they have no aviation of their own and they are bombed frequently by Ukrainian jets, while no civilian traffic has flown anywhere near them since April.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
downandout 12y ago
Pictures of wreckage: http://t.co/2o0SGVnjbE http://t.co/2o0SGVnjbE http://t.co/z4byDeovcp http://t.co/z4byDeovcp
ulfw 12y ago
Who would have thought that the safest route from Europe to Asia would be via Iran? (Wars in Syria, Iraq, Ukraine) http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AMS-IST-THR-KUL,+AMS-KUL http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AMS-IST-THR-KUL,+AMS-KUL
- scarmig 12y ago
  Not too surprising. After all, the only passenger airliner that's been shot down in Iranian history was an Iranian one by the USA.
zorbo 12y ago
I'm sorry to be that guy, but .. not appropriate for Hacker News. This is all over every news outlet. You can throw the age-old "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" all you want, but "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic". Please flag this post if you agree.
- mckoss 12y ago
  I think HN readers do an excellent job of ferreting out technical inaccuracies in a breaking story, so I rather like seeing this here.
- liquidise 12y ago
  Wouldn't someone who agrees have come to a similar conclusive action as well? I for one discovered this story because it was on HN, so i am happy it made it here.
- davidw 12y ago
  Thank you for standing up and saying it. You're completely correct, according to the guidelines.
  - zorbo 12y ago
    Thank you. The story has been removed from the frontpage at least. Worth the downvotes if I've given attention to the 'flag' option to even a few people.
  - bane 12y ago
    Huge events can have exceptions, hence the word "guidelines" and not "rules".
- ddoolin 12y ago
  Exceptions are typically made for huge events like this, it seems.
- breser 12y ago
  I think it's probably time to point to a different link though. Given that there are now pictures of bodies (albeit pixelated on the page).
steven2012 12y ago
From StratFor: Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 280 passengers and 15 crew onboard went down over Shakhtyorsk, Ukraine 50 kilometers (20 miles) from the Russo-Ukrainian border on July 17, an aviation industry source said, Interfax reported. The Ukrainian Interior Ministry said that pro-Russia separatists shot it down with a 9K37 Buk surface-to-air missile system, while separatist leader Alexander Borodai accused Kiev's forces of shooting down the plane, Reuters reported. Kiev previously designated the areas of fighting in the east an "anti-terrorist operation" zone, limiting civilian flights to 7,900 meters (23,000 feet) and in compliance the flight was at 10,000 meters (33,000).
speeq 12y ago
First photos of debris: http://imgur.com/a/s7AkM http://imgur.com/a/s7AkM From the crash site (WARNING GRAPHIC / NSFL): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswpDkqIcAAp6Wp.jpg:orig https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswpDkqIcAAp6Wp.jpg:orig
larkinrichards 12y ago
There was a call for a No Fly Zone over Donetsk on June 2nd[1], but it doesn't appear to have been implemented. Still, that should have been a warning to all airlines to steer clear. I wouldn't want to blame Malaysia Airlines for this one, but I feel like the route planning tools should include indicators for all known active combat zones with the option to navigate around them. [1] http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/zyuganov-calls-for-no-fly-zone-over-donbas-luhansk-region-350348.html http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/zyuganov-calls-for-n...
sivers 12y ago
I'm scheduled to be on that exact same flight in 10 days, so I'm not thinking very clearly about this right now. Can a cool disconnected mind give me a rational perspective on this? Does logic dictate I have nothing to worry about? ("Lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place" argument.) Or does logic say I would be smarter to lose some $$, and book a different airline and route? ("Lighting does strike twice in the same place" argument.) Thoughts?
- jarin 12y ago
  Lose some $$ and avoid flying over an area where radar guided surface to air missiles are known to hit civilian airliners.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    Airlines won't be flying in that area for a while, I'd imagine.
    - clarky07 12y ago
      the real question is why in the world were they now?
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        Fuel savings coupled with a reasonable belief that no party in the conflict would've been expected to want to incur the international wrath resulting from shooting down an airliner.
- richardwhiuk 12y ago
  Your flight will have a different flight number - they get retired after a major incident :P The air path for that flight is likely to be heavily monitored over the fortnight, so it's likely to be safer than normal
  - mrinterweb 12y ago
aarongray 12y ago
Didn't someone ask a question about flying over warzones on here recently? Seems like everyone told them not to worry, Manpad's can't reach a commercial airliner, so you have nothing to worry about. Ironic.
- xentronium 12y ago
  "Rebels" have BUK mobile SAMs.
jackau 12y ago
Crazy world
vondur 12y ago
Supposed tweet from someone from the Pro Russian rebels: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswg7UGCQAAtv47.jpg http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswg7UGCQAAtv47.jpg Someone on slashdot translated it as: "Near Torez (city) an An-26 airplane was just shot down, it crashed somewhere beyond "Progress" mine site. We warned beforehand - do not fly over "our zone". Here's another video proof of the next "birdfall". A birdie crashed down beyond terricon (mine excavation site), missed living areas. Population not harmed. We also allegedly have info on another SU-25 shot down". If that's true, they have mistaken it for a transport plane and shot it down.
lsh123 12y ago
As usual, we should wait for the results of official investigation. Right now all versions are equally possible: ground-to-air missile from either side, malfunctioning air-to-air missile on a fighter jet, UFO, ... As many correctly pointed out, there is a civil war going on in this region. These days the military war also means propaganda war. Thus, there will be all kind of statements by "officials". Unless you want to join the propaganda war yourself, I would suggest that you do not repeat this crap and wait for investigation results.
clarky07 12y ago
How is this on page 3 with 344 points 4 hours in? Which moderator killed this? If this isn't news that people would want to know about I don't know what is.
- neverminder 12y ago
  It wouldn't be the first time. I've observed for quite some time now that even much more relevant articles get deep sixed.
- noobermin 12y ago
  It might have to do with some of the comments posted here.
- altcognito 12y ago
  So, Hacker News is not a "pure" news source. It's primarily tech news. Don't look for a conspiracy, as it's completely up to the moderators as to what stays on the front page. Effectively, it's curated. I like the mix here. Not everything has to be covered by a popular "news" site.

373 points by jahaja 12y ago

Not sure whether this is true https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/statuses/489795402892591104 https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/statuses/489795402892591104

pinkskip 12y ago

This is so tragic, A second MAS plane involved in an incident in 2014. Thoughts are with the loved ones and families of the people onboard MH17

etimberg 12y ago

Reuters quoting Interfax reports that it was brought down by a surface to air missile. https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489795394411712513 https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489795394411712513

doe88 12y ago
I'm wondering, if it is confirmed it is a missile, are there any precedent of civilian plane shot-down like that in modern history (post WWII)? Edit: Thanks great replies!
- wooster 12y ago
  Yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
- nrau 12y ago
  There absolutely is precedence for this. The US shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And the Russians shot down a Korean airliner in 1983: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
- spullara 12y ago
  Plenty of them: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_in...
- pfg 12y ago
  Looks like there were quite a few incidents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_inci... (The only one I've heard of before was Iran Air Flight 655)
- dfkf 12y ago
  Iran Air Flight 655, Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, and of course Korean Air Lines Flight 007, but it was shot down by air-to-air missile.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- claudius 12y ago
  There are numerous examples, although “like that” is of course a difficult requirement, given that we don’t know what happened yet :) Some examples (in no particular ordering): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arab_Airlines_Flight_114 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902 (air-to-air, not ground-to-air missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_825 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_827 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 (air-to-air, not ground-to-air missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_TAAG_Angola_Airlines_Boeing_737_crash
- Ecio78 12y ago
  La Strage di Ustica ("Ustica Massacre"): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870 After more than 30 years we still don't know for sure what happened...
  - toyg 12y ago
    Well, we actually do, really. The French government refused for 30 years to have their pilots interviewed about the issue, relenting only very recently. They even deployed a cover operation to take charge of recovering the relic and mislead investigators. NATO actively impeded investigation at various points, quoting secrecy rules etc etc. The Italian military miraculously "failed" to keep proper records of their radars, and the government actively misled investigators and the public at the time. It's now widely accepted that the Itavia 870 was downed by a NATO plane, likely French, likely engaged in some sort of anti-Lybic operation.
    - Ecio78 12y ago
      Yes, but I meant, with all the details, and with all the nations involved taking their own responsibilities. Who knows, maybe in 50 years they will unveil the state secrecy and we'll know it for sure..
- thom 12y ago
  It wasn't so long ago that Ukraine shot a Russian airliner down (perhaps accidentally, perhaps not): http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/14/world/after-9-days-ukraine-says-its-missile-hit-a-russian-jet.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/14/world/after-9-days-ukraine...
magnacartic 12y ago
So, the blame is on Russia. https://www.facebook.com/butusov.yuriy/posts/802946763078955 https://www.facebook.com/butusov.yuriy/posts/802946763078955
- dfkf 12y ago
  Yuriy Butusov is a Ukrainian chairborne commandо. His opinion on all things Russia is known in advance and so is irrelevant.

Alupis 12y ago

Reports are stating they believe it may have been shot down.

jonnycowboy 12y ago

Last known position right around Ukraine/Russian border.

justnotsure 12y ago
This. All I need to know what happened.
- toyg 12y ago
  I wouldn't jump to conclusions if I were you -- from the actual track record[1], it looks like the middle of the country, rather than near the border. It's not even over one of the "troubled" eastern regions, nowhere near "rebels" or Russian troops. [1] https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/photo/1 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/...
  - justnotsure 12y ago
    Doneck region isn't troubled Eastern region? Where are you getting your news from? KGB TV aka Russia TV ?
    - toyg 12y ago
      Mh, ok, apologies - i trusted the pic rather than the report. The pic shows a position well outside the Donetsk area. Still, it's weird that the last tracked position shown on that pic is to the West of Donetsk and very much outside the troubled area, but the reported crash site is just to the East of Donetsk, deep into "rebel" territory. Could that be an artifact of the tracking system?
- levosmetalo 12y ago
  Yep. It's clear that USA shot it down so they can blame the Russians. And Ukrainian officials will gladly confirm. </sarcasm>

deleted 12y ago

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deleted 12y ago
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- ddoolin 12y ago
  What in the world would make you write something so asinine in response to what was essentially mourning the death of 295 people? You're not cute. You're a dick.

eliben 12y ago

Isn't the Donetsk area a war zone now? Why do commercial flights fly over it?

ddoolin 12y ago
First thing that came to my mind, too.
lsh123 12y ago
They closed airspace up to FL260 (I believe). The 777 was probably at FL360 or above.
- unchocked 12y ago
  What is the smallest SAM that can reach that altitude?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- john_b 12y ago
  Interfax claims it was flying at 10km: https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489794112212959232 https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489794112212959232
  - lsh123 12y ago
    10Km ~ FL330. It is lower than I would expect (the higher you go the less fuel you burn) but still well above FL260.
- mikeash 12y ago
  Open doesn't necessarily mean "excellent choice for flying through" though. I'm sure it was allowed, but it doesn't seem like a good idea.
k-mcgrady 12y ago
Especially considering the fact non-commercial planes have been getting shot down in the last few days in that area. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28345039 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28345039

peterjancelis 12y ago

Interfax said it was shot down. Russia - via their ambassador at the United Nations - denied involvement already. Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. Edit: I am talking about the US-Russian relationship deteriorating because of the (blamed) intent, not the number of casualties or the strength of the Malaysian army. Edit 2: Thanks for the links on previous situations like this. Reassuring.

deleted 12y ago
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levosmetalo 12y ago
> Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. Don't worry. Malaysia can join forces with Thailand, and then together attack all of their neighbours, but that would hardly make an impact to the "world order".
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  You could say the same thing about Austria going after Serbia.
  - levosmetalo 12y ago
    No, it was not only Austria going after Serbia, but Austria and Germany together going after all of their neighbours, including Serbia, France, Russia, Belgium, ...
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      Not until Russia started to mobilize to defend Serbia. Australia versus Serbia would've been a minor conflict if it weren't for the various defensive agreements the Great Powers had with smaller states.
      - levosmetalo 12y ago

blantonl 12y ago

Regardless of what caused this plane to go down, how Malaysia Airlines survives as a company going forward will be study in crisis management for many years.

alextgordon 12y ago
It may be much more damaging to them. As far as anybody knows, MH370 wasn't the fault of Malaysia Airlines. This is a whole another level. If they really approved a flight plan to fly over a war zone... I just can't... WTF.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  Passenger planes fly over Iraq and Afghanistan regularly, without incident. There was not much reason to believe Ukraine or the rebels would be idiotic enough to target civilian passenger planes in this manner.
  - omegant 12y ago
    During the hard times of the war no commercial planes flew over Irak or Afghanistan. There is no problem flying through zones with low capability insurgency, it's done all the time. But given the high tension nature ofthe Ukranian conflict it just doesn't make sense to fly over that areas. I recently flew to Moscow and our route was quite far to the north, but I would have changed it if necessary. It's a pilot's decission, but also a flight planer and Chief pilot hands to modify dangerous routes.
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      Every point of the Iraq and Afghan wars have been "harder times" than the current Ukraine conflict.
  - sn41 12y ago
    There are incidents: http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/spicejet-flight-escapes-rocket-attack-in-kabul-airport/article6177698.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/spicej...

lsh123 12y ago

5th hull-loss and 2nd crash with fatalities for 777. EDIT: I am not saying that 777 should withstand SAM attack. However these numbers are remarkable and show the reliability of the plane that have been in operations for almost 20 years and flew in all corners of the world.

crazypyro 12y ago
Hard to design passenger planes for what is a (suspected) rocket though....
modoc 12y ago
Hard to blame the airframe if it really was a SAM....
- lsh123 12y ago
  It just shows how reliable is 777
  - lsh123 12y ago
    I guess people misunderstand my comment - I am not saying 777 (or any other plane) can withstand the SAM. It's remarkable that in almost 20 years in operations all over the world, only a very small number of planes have been lost.
    - crazypyro 12y ago
      I apologize for the downvotes your comment received then. (Not from me) I think many people, myself included, wrongly assumed you were insulting the quality of the 777, not complimenting it.
      - lsh123 12y ago
        Thanks for the note. I guess the numbers are so obvious for me that I didn't expect others to react so differently.

k-mcgrady 12y ago

Some interesting info on the speculation it was shot down: A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (9.7 miles) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar. That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range. The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles. The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856 Edit: Amateur video reportedly showing aftermath of the crash (from a distance): http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-crashes-ukraine-video http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/17/malaysia-...

toomuchtodo 12y ago
Flight track: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/photo/1 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/489795658879348737/...
atwebb 12y ago
I know it's early but Sky is reporting that Ukraine confirms it was an attack: https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/489796240163745793 https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/489796240163745793
- pdabbadabba 12y ago
  Ukrainian officials may have said as much -- and they may be right -- but given Ukraine's obvious interest in this situation, it may be a stretch to say that they are capable, on their own, of "confirming" anything about it.
  - atwebb 12y ago
    Definitely a valid point and all early information should be taken very cautiously.

lsh123 12y ago

This is not the first case of missiles hitting a plane in Ukraine in recent history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

mladenkovacevic 12y ago

Somebody really really wants this war to proceed and won't take no for an answer.

qwerta 12y ago
This just sucks. Ukraine used to be very nice and safe country for backpacking. Now it will turn into Somalia.
- nsxwolf 12y ago
  Well, shit. I'm sorry if this ruins your backpacking plans.
- gk1 12y ago
  Really? This is what bothers you the most about this war? I don't think you'll have any trouble finding other poor countries that haven't yet erupted in full-out war.
  - qwerta 12y ago
    And what I am suppose to write? I have friends there, and it is practically in my backyard.

mkr-hn 12y ago

As with all tragedies, be skeptical of early reports. Especially those that identify a cause.

yuvadam 12y ago

Unrelated but relevant: TWA 800 crashed off the coast of NY on July 17, 1996, 18 years ago. [Why the downvotes? Clearly stated _unrelated_. Just a stupid fact.]

k-mcgrady 12y ago
That popped into my head as soon as I saw this story as I was reading about TWA 800 recently. Strange coincidence considering how rare an event this is.
- yuvadam 12y ago
  Same here. Just this morning I recalled TWA 800, the date always pops up from the calendar, I can't forget it.
- mikeash 12y ago
  The birthday paradox tells us that we'd expect to see coincidences like this after less than 30 crashes.
mikeash 12y ago
"Unrelated but relevant" is an oxymoron. Edit: it occurs to me that you might legitimately not understand the downvotes. TWA 800 was the center of a lot of conspiracy theories about it being shot down by a US Navy missile, up to and including purported eyewitness accounts of a missile plume. Drawing the comparison between what looks likely to be a shootdown and a relatively mundane fuel tank explosion that spawned lots of conspiracy theories about a shootdown is a good way to sound like a conspiracy nut.
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  I was also down voted. Had no idea about the conspiracy theories (I'm not American). Just saw a documentary about it recently.
  - mikeash 12y ago

mp4box 12y ago

looks like this is the flight http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/10...

brainless 12y ago

Is it too much to speculate that Malaysia Airlines or Malaysia is being targeted? Two flights in a year. Bringing a plane down from 33,000 feet is not that easy.

eclipxe 12y ago
Yes, it is too much to speculate that.
mikeash 12y ago
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

korzun 12y ago

Malaysia Airlines should be shut down. They can't keep track of their planes and can't properly investigate crashes. Now they are sending a plane over an active war zone with air space restrictions (hint: even if its restricted to 10K, flying at 30K is not OK). Feels like they are running a amateur shit show over there with little to no regulations. I can picture bunch of ex-cab drivers who are no in charge of plane routing green lighting this flight in between their 100th smoke break.

saryant 12y ago
At the time the plane lost contact, Singapore Air had other flights near the MH flight, as did other airlines. Not sure MH can be blamed for that as they aren't the only airline flying in the area. http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/#3d6095b http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/#3d6095b http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sq333#3d3c1a6 http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sq333#3d3c1a6 Also, commercial flights from Europe to India fly over Afghanistan every day, no one is concerned about that.
- korzun 12y ago
  I can't load those links but the better example would be to see which carriers avoided the no-fly zone.} Also, I don't think it's fair to compare Afghanistan and their weak and limited S2A technology to technology used by Russia and Ukraine.
  - saryant 12y ago
    MH, SQ, LH and TG all fly over Donetsk. BA and NH appear to avoid it.
    - korzun 12y ago
      Interesting. Thanks. If they can avoid it, then news like this: > http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/ukrainian-military-transport-plane-shot-down-201471423420802306.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/ukrainian-milit... Would make me go 'hey guys, let's avoid this route for now'.

spacefight 12y ago

Avherald might be slow, copy is at http://www.aeroinside.com/item/4365/malaysia-b772-near-donetsk-on-jul-17th-2014-disappeared-from-radar http://www.aeroinside.com/item/4365/malaysia-b772-near-donet...

dm2 12y ago

Does anyone have any idea what types of terrorist controlled surface-to-air missiles would be able to take out this aircraft? Would any of these systems have prevented it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_Guardian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_Guardian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMPS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMPS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard BTW, according to the Guardian article a MANPAD can be purchased for as little as $5,000. Apparently this was something else such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system I know this happened before, but shooting down civilian aircraft cannot be tolerated.

tdobson 12y ago
Some media reports say (citing official ukrian reports and AP visuals in the region) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
- dm2 12y ago
  That's what this article says: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-airplane-idUSKBN0FM1TU20140717 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-a... What is a "Pro-Russian militant"? At what point are they considered part of the Russian armed forces?
  - knodi123 12y ago
    when they are wearing a uniform and holding an official rank
    - dm2 12y ago
      Are these types of "terrorists" targeted by Putin or are they ignored because they're not targeting Russians?
mikecb 12y ago
Report say it was flying too high for a manpad. These countermeasures wouldn't work against a Buk or other radar guided missile.

Oculus 12y ago

History always repeats itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

jhprks 12y ago

Christian God has saved these people in Malaysia B772, let us all praise the Lord and get on board with the saved ones and prepare to join our Lord and Savior in Heaven that's located just outskirts of the visible universe.

micahgoulart 12y ago

First pictures of the downed plane are already showing up on Twitter. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswmWPwIIAAAZi1.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswmWPwIIAAAZi1.jpg:large

yaakov34 12y ago

Ukraine has previously closed all airspace over the east of the country to civilian flights. I know that lynch mobs form very quickly online, especially to attack unpopular people, but in this case, the responsibility of directing a civilian plane into closed airspace over a rebel-held region where a vicious battle with tanks, airplanes, and artillery has raged for months is shared between two parties: the Ukrainian air traffic control (the airplane crossed the length of the country before being shot down) and the pilots. Now, these rebels may be the worst people in the world since Cain - I am not taking up the politics of this at all - but even if they did shoot this plane down, they acted reasonably given their military situation: they have no aviation of their own and they are bombed frequently by Ukrainian jets, while no civilian traffic has flown anywhere near them since April.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

downandout 12y ago

Pictures of wreckage: http://t.co/2o0SGVnjbE http://t.co/2o0SGVnjbE http://t.co/z4byDeovcp http://t.co/z4byDeovcp

ulfw 12y ago

Who would have thought that the safest route from Europe to Asia would be via Iran? (Wars in Syria, Iraq, Ukraine) http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AMS-IST-THR-KUL,+AMS-KUL http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AMS-IST-THR-KUL,+AMS-KUL

scarmig 12y ago
Not too surprising. After all, the only passenger airliner that's been shot down in Iranian history was an Iranian one by the USA.

zorbo 12y ago

I'm sorry to be that guy, but .. not appropriate for Hacker News. This is all over every news outlet. You can throw the age-old "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" all you want, but "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic". Please flag this post if you agree.

mckoss 12y ago
I think HN readers do an excellent job of ferreting out technical inaccuracies in a breaking story, so I rather like seeing this here.
liquidise 12y ago
Wouldn't someone who agrees have come to a similar conclusive action as well? I for one discovered this story because it was on HN, so i am happy it made it here.
davidw 12y ago
Thank you for standing up and saying it. You're completely correct, according to the guidelines.
- zorbo 12y ago
  Thank you. The story has been removed from the frontpage at least. Worth the downvotes if I've given attention to the 'flag' option to even a few people.
- bane 12y ago
  Huge events can have exceptions, hence the word "guidelines" and not "rules".
ddoolin 12y ago
Exceptions are typically made for huge events like this, it seems.
breser 12y ago
I think it's probably time to point to a different link though. Given that there are now pictures of bodies (albeit pixelated on the page).

steven2012 12y ago

From StratFor: Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 280 passengers and 15 crew onboard went down over Shakhtyorsk, Ukraine 50 kilometers (20 miles) from the Russo-Ukrainian border on July 17, an aviation industry source said, Interfax reported. The Ukrainian Interior Ministry said that pro-Russia separatists shot it down with a 9K37 Buk surface-to-air missile system, while separatist leader Alexander Borodai accused Kiev's forces of shooting down the plane, Reuters reported. Kiev previously designated the areas of fighting in the east an "anti-terrorist operation" zone, limiting civilian flights to 7,900 meters (23,000 feet) and in compliance the flight was at 10,000 meters (33,000).

speeq 12y ago

First photos of debris: http://imgur.com/a/s7AkM http://imgur.com/a/s7AkM From the crash site (WARNING GRAPHIC / NSFL): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswpDkqIcAAp6Wp.jpg:orig https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswpDkqIcAAp6Wp.jpg:orig

larkinrichards 12y ago

There was a call for a No Fly Zone over Donetsk on June 2nd[1], but it doesn't appear to have been implemented. Still, that should have been a warning to all airlines to steer clear. I wouldn't want to blame Malaysia Airlines for this one, but I feel like the route planning tools should include indicators for all known active combat zones with the option to navigate around them. [1] http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/zyuganov-calls-for-no-fly-zone-over-donbas-luhansk-region-350348.html http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/zyuganov-calls-for-n...

sivers 12y ago

I'm scheduled to be on that exact same flight in 10 days, so I'm not thinking very clearly about this right now. Can a cool disconnected mind give me a rational perspective on this? Does logic dictate I have nothing to worry about? ("Lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place" argument.) Or does logic say I would be smarter to lose some $$, and book a different airline and route? ("Lighting does strike twice in the same place" argument.) Thoughts?

jarin 12y ago
Lose some $$ and avoid flying over an area where radar guided surface to air missiles are known to hit civilian airliners.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  Airlines won't be flying in that area for a while, I'd imagine.
  - clarky07 12y ago
    the real question is why in the world were they now?
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      Fuel savings coupled with a reasonable belief that no party in the conflict would've been expected to want to incur the international wrath resulting from shooting down an airliner.
richardwhiuk 12y ago
Your flight will have a different flight number - they get retired after a major incident :P The air path for that flight is likely to be heavily monitored over the fortnight, so it's likely to be safer than normal
- mrinterweb 12y ago

aarongray 12y ago

Didn't someone ask a question about flying over warzones on here recently? Seems like everyone told them not to worry, Manpad's can't reach a commercial airliner, so you have nothing to worry about. Ironic.

xentronium 12y ago
"Rebels" have BUK mobile SAMs.

jackau 12y ago

Crazy world

vondur 12y ago

Supposed tweet from someone from the Pro Russian rebels: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswg7UGCQAAtv47.jpg http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswg7UGCQAAtv47.jpg Someone on slashdot translated it as: "Near Torez (city) an An-26 airplane was just shot down, it crashed somewhere beyond "Progress" mine site. We warned beforehand - do not fly over "our zone". Here's another video proof of the next "birdfall". A birdie crashed down beyond terricon (mine excavation site), missed living areas. Population not harmed. We also allegedly have info on another SU-25 shot down". If that's true, they have mistaken it for a transport plane and shot it down.

lsh123 12y ago

As usual, we should wait for the results of official investigation. Right now all versions are equally possible: ground-to-air missile from either side, malfunctioning air-to-air missile on a fighter jet, UFO, ... As many correctly pointed out, there is a civil war going on in this region. These days the military war also means propaganda war. Thus, there will be all kind of statements by "officials". Unless you want to join the propaganda war yourself, I would suggest that you do not repeat this crap and wait for investigation results.

clarky07 12y ago

How is this on page 3 with 344 points 4 hours in? Which moderator killed this? If this isn't news that people would want to know about I don't know what is.

neverminder 12y ago
It wouldn't be the first time. I've observed for quite some time now that even much more relevant articles get deep sixed.
noobermin 12y ago
It might have to do with some of the comments posted here.
altcognito 12y ago
So, Hacker News is not a "pure" news source. It's primarily tech news. Don't look for a conspiracy, as it's completely up to the moderators as to what stays on the front page. Effectively, it's curated. I like the mix here. Not everything has to be covered by a popular "news" site.