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>What is the legal status of the investments promoted by your platform? How will they be treated by the Securities and Exchange Commission? >Just like bitcoin,

by toufka 12y ago

>What is the legal status of the investments promoted by your platform? How will they be treated by the Securities and Exchange Commission? >Just like bitcoin, we’re launching it entirely outside the system. That's very naive. The government doesn't regulate 'The Dollar', and it doesn't regulate 'The Stock Market' - it regulates transactions, exchanges & financial instruments. Just because you don't play within existing infrastructure doesn't mean you can play without any rules. As an idea this is really clever - but I don't think one should intentionally disregard the (often useful) existing boundaries. Nor say so in an interview.

adventured 12y ago
Any economic unit of value that moves, in any way shape or form, within the United States - and sometimes as an extension outside of it - the US Government claims dominion over. Period. It is exceptionally naive and will come back to bite them.
- otoburb 12y ago
  According to a Swarm founder comments above, their legal counsel may have advised that there are potential loopholes to exploit that may not make this a black and white case. Wondering how far they are willing to test this in court.
  - qq66 12y ago
    US courts don't look fondly on loopholes. For example, the Supreme Court just ruled against Aereo and stated that the legislature didn't even need to close the loophole, that the courts would do it for them.
  - GrinningFool 12y ago
    It seems a business plan built atop loopholes is not, perhaps, the best long-term strategy. Particularly when then calling attention to this fact...
Jd 12y ago
Swarm founder here. We have a very unusual organizational model that allows people to represent the Swarm without having an "official" status within the organization, which means that we are always at risk of some degree of misrepresentation. After this specific interview I issued a "Legal Action Plan" that specifies the particulars of our near and long-term legal strategy, such that no one makes faux pas like "we’re launching it entirely outside the system." That said, a lot of these subtleties are lost on non-native English speakers, which at the moment is probably the majority of the Swarm. The full letter can be read here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b6krYF6rMECtTwmTjbcZWZ0lrIbfuLO37NayMLmyVVA/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b6krYF6rMECtTwmTjbcZWZ0l...
- patcon 12y ago
  I feel like you've likely come across this regulation-related op-ed penned by Skype's previous COO, but just in case: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-regulation-lessons-early-days-skype/ http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-regulation-lessons-early-day... > To put it bluntly – every bitcoin actor should be reading the law very carefully and finding the loopholes. You should all invest a great deal of time in this – it is hugely important. For example, are you really moving ‘currency’ or are you simply exchanging some sort of token? > Companies need to just carry on doing what they are doing, if they can make a case for themselves that they don’t need regulation, they shouldn’t even go near it. ... [They] should read the rules, argue why they are not covered by the rules and use that analysis as a defence, but they should only ask for permission if they are sure it is necessary. Regardless, great positions.
  - Jd 12y ago
    Yes, one of our legal counsels actually recommended that we read that article once. And then again. And again until it sank in. It sank in. ;)
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  Are you familiar with the history of Bitcoin-denominated stocks? The history of various bitcoin stock exchanges which have been shut down by the SEC? Do you know exactly what the regulations are? Are you aware of how they've actually been applied to Bitcoin in the past? Are you aware of the extensive fraud that has been perpetrated in the this space? This is not a new field, it's got a couple years of history, and very little of it is pretty. What are you doing that makes you think you'll be different?
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
Hey, this is 2014, they're supposed to be 'disruptive.'
Torn 12y ago
Also doesn't the US view bitcoin like property, and so is liable for gains tax?
baddox 12y ago
The government definitely regulates the dollar, even under the definition you're using.

by toufka 12y ago

adventured 12y ago

Any economic unit of value that moves, in any way shape or form, within the United States - and sometimes as an extension outside of it - the US Government claims dominion over. Period. It is exceptionally naive and will come back to bite them.

otoburb 12y ago
According to a Swarm founder comments above, their legal counsel may have advised that there are potential loopholes to exploit that may not make this a black and white case. Wondering how far they are willing to test this in court.
- qq66 12y ago
  US courts don't look fondly on loopholes. For example, the Supreme Court just ruled against Aereo and stated that the legislature didn't even need to close the loophole, that the courts would do it for them.
- GrinningFool 12y ago
  It seems a business plan built atop loopholes is not, perhaps, the best long-term strategy. Particularly when then calling attention to this fact...

Jd 12y ago

Swarm founder here. We have a very unusual organizational model that allows people to represent the Swarm without having an "official" status within the organization, which means that we are always at risk of some degree of misrepresentation. After this specific interview I issued a "Legal Action Plan" that specifies the particulars of our near and long-term legal strategy, such that no one makes faux pas like "we’re launching it entirely outside the system." That said, a lot of these subtleties are lost on non-native English speakers, which at the moment is probably the majority of the Swarm. The full letter can be read here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b6krYF6rMECtTwmTjbcZWZ0lrIbfuLO37NayMLmyVVA/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b6krYF6rMECtTwmTjbcZWZ0l...

patcon 12y ago
I feel like you've likely come across this regulation-related op-ed penned by Skype's previous COO, but just in case: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-regulation-lessons-early-days-skype/ http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-regulation-lessons-early-day... > To put it bluntly – every bitcoin actor should be reading the law very carefully and finding the loopholes. You should all invest a great deal of time in this – it is hugely important. For example, are you really moving ‘currency’ or are you simply exchanging some sort of token? > Companies need to just carry on doing what they are doing, if they can make a case for themselves that they don’t need regulation, they shouldn’t even go near it. ... [They] should read the rules, argue why they are not covered by the rules and use that analysis as a defence, but they should only ask for permission if they are sure it is necessary. Regardless, great positions.
- Jd 12y ago
  Yes, one of our legal counsels actually recommended that we read that article once. And then again. And again until it sank in. It sank in. ;)
waterlesscloud 12y ago
Are you familiar with the history of Bitcoin-denominated stocks? The history of various bitcoin stock exchanges which have been shut down by the SEC? Do you know exactly what the regulations are? Are you aware of how they've actually been applied to Bitcoin in the past? Are you aware of the extensive fraud that has been perpetrated in the this space? This is not a new field, it's got a couple years of history, and very little of it is pretty. What are you doing that makes you think you'll be different?

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

Hey, this is 2014, they're supposed to be 'disruptive.'

Torn 12y ago

Also doesn't the US view bitcoin like property, and so is liable for gains tax?

baddox 12y ago

The government definitely regulates the dollar, even under the definition you're using.