11 ms·

Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

123 points by tokenadult 12y ago

ggreer 12y ago
The actual study is: http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/13_0293.htm http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/13_0293.htm. It's also available as a PDF: http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/pdf/13_0293.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/pdf/13_0293.pdf
- mtdewcmu 12y ago
  Someone will have to parse the study to find out what's really happening. My guess is that most of the deaths that are being called alcohol-related are not chronic alcoholics; most are probably accidents and violence in which alcohol had been consumed at some point. So, I would be cautious about reading causation into those statistics.
  - lostlogin 12y ago
    There was a document published not too long ago about Auckland City Hospital, New Zealand which would possibly support what you're saying. A huge percentage of the emergency department admissions had been drinking. The below link is similar, but related only to accidents. The gist being that people admitted to hospital following an unintentional injury are often under the influence of alcohol. Small study, 2000ish participant, 20% ish screened for alcohol, 50% were under influence. http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2417/content.pdf http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2417/content.pdf
Zigurd 12y ago
You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. Would there be PSAs on TV suggesting a bong hit instead of a drink? Would soda pop be locked up behind the counter? "Got more milk than you can digest?" How many points of GDP would it be worth to do the necessary social engineering? The other side of the coin is: What is the total cost of successful industry lobbying that makes harmful products seem normal to the public? I suspect that fascination with experiments in optimizations is what drives interest in things like Soylent.
- chrisdevereux 12y ago
  Or David Nutt's suggestion that, as a public health issue, we should be trying to engineer a drug with the same subjective effects as alcohol but without the toxicity or addictiveness: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/alcohol-benefits-no-dangers-closer-think http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/alcohol... (such a chemical would, in practice, be immediately banned in most countries)
  - paulhauggis 12y ago
    Isn't this what quaaludes were in the 70s and 80s? (and they were quickly banned)
    - chrisdevereux 12y ago
      Habit forming and toxic, so no. But yes, they were banned.
      - Zigurd 12y ago
        More, or less, than alcohol?
        chrisdevereux 12y ago
        Comparable, I think. Definitely addictive. Less liver toxicity, but easier to overdose fatally (respiratory depression).
      - Scoundreller 12y ago
        "Toxic" is a misunderstood term. Toxicity is all about dose. The water piped into my residence can be toxic despite meeting drinking water-quality guidelines. If I drank its full output continuously for just minutes, I'd be dead of water intoxication.
    - andreasvc 12y ago
      http://www.drugs.com/quaaludes.html http://www.drugs.com/quaaludes.html Doesn't seem to fit the bill to me, it has strong withdrawal effects and makes people do reckless things, according the link above.
hga 12y ago
I'm not sure this is all that surprising. Turn it around: what do we expect to be the causes for those adults between age 20 and 64 who die? I really should read up on the relevant actuarial facts, but isn't it the case that by and large those from 20 to, say, 50 plus or minus are fairly healthy?
- mikegioia 12y ago
  I think what's surprising is that 1/10 is pretty high for something that technically could be prevented entirely. It has nothing to do with other causes of death.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    Most deaths in that age range could be prevented entirely. Alcohol, like many other causes, is a risk we accept in exchange for something. I would hazard workplace & automotive accidents are also high on the list. We can prevent those entirely, very simply...
    - YokoZar 12y ago
      Automotive accidents are high in part due to alcohol though.
      - randallsquared 12y ago
        High relative to what? Automobile accident deaths per 100K have dropped by more than half since 1980, and by nearly a third since 2000. Even in absolute numbers, they've been declining pretty steadily for many years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in...
        LnxPrgr3 12y ago
        Modern cars have made it a lot safer to be in a crash. I'd hate to have been driving the 1959 Bel Air in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck Still, since not much else is likely to kill the average American 20-something, car crashes rank relatively high, and alcohol remains involved in about a third of all fatal crashes in the US.
ossreality 12y ago
And yet HN is still full of people that act like I'm the scum of the Earth for working 50 hours a week and then consuming pure THC/CBD in vapor form after work. LOL.
ryanmim 12y ago
I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects (violence, drunk driving). I don't drive while drunk and I'm not a violent drunk, but I drink too much. I know I'm at risk for cirrhosis but I also think there are more dangers than simply that. These other negative effects need to be more prominent for those of us who are these "contributing to society" drinkers.
- Stronico 12y ago
  One thing to consider is that alcohol use is progressive - and while you drink a significant amount now - what if you doubled it in five years (as often happens) - would you still have it under control and not negatively affecting others? Addiction = (exposure * time) * genetics.
  - matwood 12y ago
    Interesting. My alcohol use has been becoming less and less as I get older. I love a nice wine or good beer, but my nights of going out partying are way behind me.
    - sharkweek 12y ago
      I'm the same -- at the ripe age of 28, I had two nice beers with dinner the other night and woke up with a headache. I can barely handle it anymore; which is arguably a good thing. I still enjoy a good beer, but other than that, have basically lost the taste for all other alcohol.
      - lostlogin 12y ago
        It took me a worryingly long time to work out that 1 cider per night over a week or 2 of summer was why I felt terrible the day after. I suspect this has more to do with the stupidly high sugar content.
rimantas 12y ago
Having in mind how many deaths are caused by health issues related to obesity what number should be in headline "Eating behind _ in 10 deaths of working-age adults"?
- Zigurd 12y ago
  The US diabetes mortality rate is about 2X that of other advanced economies, so, yeah, eating crappy food is going to be a lot of the rest.
- AJ007 12y ago
  Alcohol and obesity are related. Someone who is a heavy drinker is increasing their required calorie count by 30-50%. If you take in to account the glycemic index these are very expensive calories. Choices are: exercise really hard (marathon training) or starve yourself of normal food. Most will end up overweight instead. I'm not convinced either of those three choices are healthy in the long run.
- SoftwareMaven 12y ago
  Obesity alone is not the cause of those deaths; it is just another symptom. In fact, when fat is stored subcutaneously, there appears to be little to no increase in mortality, and, for some (middle aged women at least), it is actually protective. The real disease is metabolic syndrome, which affects both thin people and fat people. It is a constellation of disorders including abdominal weight gain, fatty liver disease, high blood pressure, dyslipidemia, and high blood sugar or diabetes. Metabolic syndrome is the killer (often leading to cardiovascular disease, liver or kidney failure, blindness, amputations, and, perhaps, dimentia/Alzheimer's [the studies on this are early and not yet cinclusive]), but our society is so focused on weight that thin people automatically assume they are immune to it and everybody carrying any extra weight is assumed to have one foot in the grave. If you eat like crap (a sugar-laden, high trans fat diet of processed food-like substances), you are at risk unless you won the genetic lottery (and those genetics may just buy you time, not immunity).
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
transfire 12y ago
I suspect, the salient fact that the CDC is leaving out is that many, if not most, of these are from car accidents. Also, by qualifying it as "working-age" it skews the results heavily. What about all the people that did all that drinking and managed to make it past working age? Lucky for us, automated cars are going to solve most of this problem in a decade or two. So a more honest assessment would answer how many adults are dying from non-vehicular drinking causes.
- biehl 12y ago
  So, try to regulate drinking until automatic cars save us?
  - nilved 12y ago
    Yes, prohibition showed us that regulation is an effective way to prevent people from doing things
- Hannan 12y ago
  >> I suspect, the salient fact that the CDC is leaving out is that many, if not most, of these are from car accidents. "About 1.7 million people died from short-term causes such as crashes or accidents, compared to approximately 800,000 who died from long-term health causes like cancer or strokes, according to the study."
- rodgerd 12y ago
  How, exactly, would it be "more honest" to exclude a huge chunk of deaths? There's a lot of denial going on in this discussion.
indlebe 12y ago
Does anyone else find it strange that the definitions of binge and heavy drinking vary so much between the men and women groups? I would think that only body weight would be the heavy influence on this. Is USA Today just being sexist?
- freditup 12y ago
  I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but assuming you're not... But first, 5 drinks in 2-3 hrs for men vs. 4 drinks in 2-3 hrs for women isn't that different. Second, women on average weigh less, so that contributes to the difference as you mentioned. And third, there are other ways alcohol affects men and women differently. Edit: Just saw the 15 drinks/week for men vs. 8 drinks/week for women which is a larger difference. However, to call USA Today 'sexist' because of that is kind of out there. These numbers aren't just made up out of thin air: for example, http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/ExtremeDrinking/tabid/91/Default.aspx http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/ExtremeDrinking/tabid/91/De...
  - indlebe 12y ago
    >if you're being sarcastic what's "sarcastic"? >there are other ways alcohol affects men and women differently. sources please? :)
    - lostlogin 12y ago
      I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give a few of the answers. Basic anatomical differences like a uterus and breasts are part of the equation. http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/women_alcohol.htm http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/women_alcohol.htm
      - indlebe 12y ago
        >I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give a few of the answers. How does thinking produce answers? >Basic anatomical differences like a uterus and breasts are part of the equation. But what about hermaphrodites? I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give you the impression that I'm being super serious.
nawitus 12y ago
It's about 16% in Finland.
freditup 12y ago
Good reminder I think that we should never pressure anyone to drink. Whether for health, family, religious, personal, or any other reasons, there's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing not to drink alcohol. I enjoy a drink now and then, but I get quite upset when people pressure others to drink.
- cclogg 12y ago
  I go through that quite a bit lol because I've made the conscious decision not to drink ever (I don't care to spend the money on it nor do I care for the taste). But my vice is drinking soda heh... darn sugar!
mullingitover 12y ago
I've often wondered why we can't replace alcohol with a less damaging recreational drug. We could take a tranqilizer like valium, make a dilute solution of it, add flavoring or whatever it takes to give it alcohol's 'kick' and end up with an acceptable substitute. This isn't to say that valium is 'safe' but it's far less toxic to the body than alcohol.
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  Soma.
- Scoundreller 12y ago
  I suspect a lot of the anti-drug[1] lobby is heavy supported by the legal drug lobby[2]. There's just so much to lose by so many people if safer alternatives emerge (ignoring the fact that new industries will emerge). Dr. David Nutt is working on this: http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/feb/27/david-nutt-drink-alcohol-substitute-safer-intoxicant http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/feb/27/david-nu... but there are already a large pile of options, just a lack of political will. [1] Anti-drug referring to anti-illegal-drug. [2] of which consist of drugs that would never pass the medication approval process, but solely exist due to a history of use and grandfathering
quasque 12y ago
Headline should be modified to indicate that the study was carried out in the USA. It's not generally applicable to the world population, or necessarily to all high-income countries.
bluehazed 12y ago
I've pretty much resolved myself to slowly drinking myself to death, I'm pretty sure I'd have killed myself due to boredom or stress otherwise. Hopefully maybe getting out of my current field (devops) and going back into school (have a CS degree to finish) will help a bit.
- logicallee 12y ago
  lol @ going to college so you can stop drinking. Only the engineering department... :-)
  - frozenport 12y ago
    After what happened when Facebook came to our campus, I would assume CS degrees don't fall into this category. Perhaps the folks in Electrical Engineering still got it.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      Nope, EEs also party hard. Try maybe some theological university.
  - bluehazed 12y ago
    Oh, it's not to stop drinking, it's more to be less miserable :)
- middle334 12y ago
  I drank very heavily for ~ 20 years, a high functioning alcoholic and software engineer. Most of you have heard of stuff I've worked on. My other HN account has a pretty high karma, this one is a throwaway. I was maybe three months from being homeless, and after being out of work for nearly a year (nobody wanted to hire me, go figure. I thought I had things pretty well covered up...) I found a job with a small company writing simulation software. Two weeks into working for them I lost control and went on a binge and didn't show up for a week, and the CEO went by my condo and asked WTF. I told him. Went into detox later that day, did two weeks in-patient at The Camp in Scotts Valley, then did AA really solidly. It mostly stuck; my earlier visits to AA hadn't been absolutely desperate, and I figure I was pretty close to dying through suicide or something a lot more slow and miserable. I don't work at that company any more, but it took the caring of a CEO who I barely even knew to really wake me up. I'm still sober 15 years later. Just switching jobs won't help. Nor will making promises, or going to school, or switching majors, or exercising, or moving, or just about anything else that doesn't exactly target what alcoholism is all about. This sounds deadly serious, and it is, but in fact AA was a lot of fun and I made a number of fast friends. (Feel free to substitute the organization of your choice, but AA worked well for me and I don't have experience with another group).
dbrannan 12y ago
I remember asking my father why he never drank alcohol. He said, "My dad (your grandfather) and three brothers couldn't leave it alone, so I figure I wouldn't be able to either. If you are wise you will do the same." I'm 46 and never had an alcoholic drink.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  I admire your resolve. Keep it that way. I drank my first beer when I was 18 years old. That was the only beer that year. When 19 I drank two. When 20 I drank four. When 21 I drank eight (yes, really!). Around 23 I started drinking like everyone else. It's funny because I initially didn't drink by choice - thanks to religious upbringing + the general distaste for beer I refused to drink (and, sadly, partying[0]) alcohol, opting for coke instead. What I learned then is that alcoholic beverages just start to taste more the more you drink them. [0] - It's not the booze I didn't drink that I regret; it's the connections with interesting people of various trades I could make, but didn't, because I haven't attended the university grills, etc.
- joshbert 12y ago
  I had a similar experience to your father growing up and that's exactly the conclusion I reached. Learning what not to do through the example of others can be quite efficient.
- x1798DE 12y ago
  As a counter-point, I also had heavy alcoholism and drug use on both sides of my family. I drink in moderation, primarily on social occasions, and I almost never drink to the point of inebriation. I have never felt any compulsion to drink to excess.
noname123 12y ago
While we are at it, can we list some other addictions that we use to cope with life. Me personally, it's gambling, pornography, sulking alone, facebooking acquaintances to see how they're doing better than me or worse, checking sports score and living vicariously through the lives of professional athletes on and off the field, checking TechCrunch/Hack News and doing the same with tech billionaires, making up lists and goals alone or with other people that will never come to fruition due to excessive wishful thinking and ambition to overcompensate but fun to preoccupy my mind for the time being. Window-shopping online and offline for the perfect couch, jewelry, fragrance or other consumer goods that is marketed to me. Reading self-help books, attending wellness workshops, "social intelligence" workshops to help me with my awkwardness, tech-meetup's to mingle. Wasting money at pubs, lounges and clubs hanging out with friends by shallow association of work, school, social network where nothing of importance is said and egos are stroked and reciprocated. Going home alone. Or accompanying a date back home but feeling alone. Or sleeping int the same bed, wondering how I got here and still feeling alone. But I'm just doing what I'm told to find someone, don't be picky, "you're not getting younger." Forging intimate moments like taking a trip to Montreal in July, go visit a botanical garden or go skydiving like what I'm told by Hallmark and merchants of the USA, I feel nothing but my CC swiped to the max. Keeping an overpriced apartment in downtown like a dumb bird nest-building for the sole purpose of mating and trying to fit in. So I have to keep working and running round and round in the hamster-wheel to pay for my student loans, car loan, credit card debt, insurances, save up for a mortgage so I can take on even a bigger loan to convince someone that I may or may not like to start a family with me, so that we can both be indebted for the kids' college education loans. But still everyday I wake up, and I keep braving it through. Because I'm hoping maybe just maybe, I can be like Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. Hit it out of the ball park, that is the American Dream, work hard and if things don't work out, keep working even harder and harder, and one day freedom will come for me. I have to believe and try, after all this is the American way.
- grimtrigger 12y ago
  You don't have to do most of the things on your list. Own your decisions.
- frozenport 12y ago
tluyben2 12y ago
Many of my most gifted employees, partners and colleagues are/were heavy drinkers (not alcoholics; I know those, but in other professions); I see a lot of programmers drink heavily simply to 'forget'. For many there simply are not a lot of ways to leave the problem solving of the day for the next day or, god forbid, over the weekend. The only way to lift it over a period is dope (or burnout) for them. I see it as a big issue but I don't know how normal it is; I would say very normal as I witnessed it in 100s of programmers, but that might be restricted to the regions (EU/RU) I mostly worked in. I can understand it though; I have been working for 13 hours today on a hard coding issue and in the end I found a bug in the solution. But that was 'enough' I thought and closed the laptop 4 hours ago. I cannot stop thinking about it and I just opened my computer to type this and solve the bug (It is 00:30 am sunday morning here). Booze would've let me forget. What ways are you all using to do that? I tried meditating which works but after that it just pops back.
- purringmeow 12y ago
  Exercise. You are focused on reps or breathing and you zone out. Really effective way to shift your focus and improves mental condition too.
  - tluyben2 12y ago
    Agreed. That's also a good way and I do that too, actually today for an hour, but after the cooldown I want to still solve the issue today... Mind you ; I really love what I do and it's my work and hobby and passion, but sometimes I want to shut it off.
    - purringmeow 12y ago
      Going out with people who aren't in IT helps too. I too have had that problem of just wanting to stay until 05:00 to do something, but I tell myself that's not the effective way and go to bed regardless. I don't know you, so I don't know what else to say. Just experiment - try mixing exercise with active social life and new experiences. Go skydive or something like that :)
aaron695 12y ago
I would suspect suicide is a significant part of this figure. The fact this isn't mentioned is a worry. Even the concept of singular occupant motor vehicular accidents(Drunk or not) are not quite what they necessarily seem.
Spooky23 12y ago
You need to pay careful attention to statistics for stuff like this. A drunk guy sleeping in a bus shelter who gets struck by a driver who wasn't drinking is still labeled as an alcohol-related car accident, for example.
millstone 12y ago
A woman who drinks a glass of wine a night and two on Friday is a "heavy drinker?" Having two mixed drinks within a three hour period is a binge? I don't know if the science supports these numbers, but they certainly do not agree with common definitions.
- saulrh 12y ago
  If you can tie a definition of "heavy drinker" to "causative factor in 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults", I don't care whether it agrees with the common definition, it's still useful. If anything, it's the reverse - if some quantity is enough to cause that much loss of life, then it's probably "heavy".
anovikov 12y ago
One in 6 - sounds like too much - what is the definition/threshold for 'excessive drinking'?

123 points by tokenadult 12y ago

The actual study is: http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/13_0293.htm http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/13_0293.htm. It's also available as a PDF: http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/pdf/13_0293.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/pdf/13_0293.pdf

mtdewcmu 12y ago
Someone will have to parse the study to find out what's really happening. My guess is that most of the deaths that are being called alcohol-related are not chronic alcoholics; most are probably accidents and violence in which alcohol had been consumed at some point. So, I would be cautious about reading causation into those statistics.
- lostlogin 12y ago
  There was a document published not too long ago about Auckland City Hospital, New Zealand which would possibly support what you're saying. A huge percentage of the emergency department admissions had been drinking. The below link is similar, but related only to accidents. The gist being that people admitted to hospital following an unintentional injury are often under the influence of alcohol. Small study, 2000ish participant, 20% ish screened for alcohol, 50% were under influence. http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2417/content.pdf http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2417/content.pdf

Zigurd 12y ago

You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. Would there be PSAs on TV suggesting a bong hit instead of a drink? Would soda pop be locked up behind the counter? "Got more milk than you can digest?" How many points of GDP would it be worth to do the necessary social engineering? The other side of the coin is: What is the total cost of successful industry lobbying that makes harmful products seem normal to the public? I suspect that fascination with experiments in optimizations is what drives interest in things like Soylent.

chrisdevereux 12y ago
Or David Nutt's suggestion that, as a public health issue, we should be trying to engineer a drug with the same subjective effects as alcohol but without the toxicity or addictiveness: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/alcohol-benefits-no-dangers-closer-think http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/alcohol... (such a chemical would, in practice, be immediately banned in most countries)
- paulhauggis 12y ago
  Isn't this what quaaludes were in the 70s and 80s? (and they were quickly banned)
  - chrisdevereux 12y ago
    Habit forming and toxic, so no. But yes, they were banned.
    - Zigurd 12y ago
      More, or less, than alcohol?
      - chrisdevereux 12y ago
        Comparable, I think. Definitely addictive. Less liver toxicity, but easier to overdose fatally (respiratory depression).
    - Scoundreller 12y ago
      "Toxic" is a misunderstood term. Toxicity is all about dose. The water piped into my residence can be toxic despite meeting drinking water-quality guidelines. If I drank its full output continuously for just minutes, I'd be dead of water intoxication.
  - andreasvc 12y ago
    http://www.drugs.com/quaaludes.html http://www.drugs.com/quaaludes.html Doesn't seem to fit the bill to me, it has strong withdrawal effects and makes people do reckless things, according the link above.

hga 12y ago

I'm not sure this is all that surprising. Turn it around: what do we expect to be the causes for those adults between age 20 and 64 who die? I really should read up on the relevant actuarial facts, but isn't it the case that by and large those from 20 to, say, 50 plus or minus are fairly healthy?

mikegioia 12y ago
I think what's surprising is that 1/10 is pretty high for something that technically could be prevented entirely. It has nothing to do with other causes of death.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Most deaths in that age range could be prevented entirely. Alcohol, like many other causes, is a risk we accept in exchange for something. I would hazard workplace & automotive accidents are also high on the list. We can prevent those entirely, very simply...
  - YokoZar 12y ago
    Automotive accidents are high in part due to alcohol though.
    - randallsquared 12y ago
      High relative to what? Automobile accident deaths per 100K have dropped by more than half since 1980, and by nearly a third since 2000. Even in absolute numbers, they've been declining pretty steadily for many years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in...
      - LnxPrgr3 12y ago
        Modern cars have made it a lot safer to be in a crash. I'd hate to have been driving the 1959 Bel Air in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck Still, since not much else is likely to kill the average American 20-something, car crashes rank relatively high, and alcohol remains involved in about a third of all fatal crashes in the US.

ossreality 12y ago

And yet HN is still full of people that act like I'm the scum of the Earth for working 50 hours a week and then consuming pure THC/CBD in vapor form after work. LOL.

ryanmim 12y ago

I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects (violence, drunk driving). I don't drive while drunk and I'm not a violent drunk, but I drink too much. I know I'm at risk for cirrhosis but I also think there are more dangers than simply that. These other negative effects need to be more prominent for those of us who are these "contributing to society" drinkers.

Stronico 12y ago
One thing to consider is that alcohol use is progressive - and while you drink a significant amount now - what if you doubled it in five years (as often happens) - would you still have it under control and not negatively affecting others? Addiction = (exposure * time) * genetics.
- matwood 12y ago
  Interesting. My alcohol use has been becoming less and less as I get older. I love a nice wine or good beer, but my nights of going out partying are way behind me.
  - sharkweek 12y ago
    I'm the same -- at the ripe age of 28, I had two nice beers with dinner the other night and woke up with a headache. I can barely handle it anymore; which is arguably a good thing. I still enjoy a good beer, but other than that, have basically lost the taste for all other alcohol.
    - lostlogin 12y ago
      It took me a worryingly long time to work out that 1 cider per night over a week or 2 of summer was why I felt terrible the day after. I suspect this has more to do with the stupidly high sugar content.

rimantas 12y ago

Having in mind how many deaths are caused by health issues related to obesity what number should be in headline "Eating behind _ in 10 deaths of working-age adults"?

Zigurd 12y ago
The US diabetes mortality rate is about 2X that of other advanced economies, so, yeah, eating crappy food is going to be a lot of the rest.
AJ007 12y ago
Alcohol and obesity are related. Someone who is a heavy drinker is increasing their required calorie count by 30-50%. If you take in to account the glycemic index these are very expensive calories. Choices are: exercise really hard (marathon training) or starve yourself of normal food. Most will end up overweight instead. I'm not convinced either of those three choices are healthy in the long run.
SoftwareMaven 12y ago
Obesity alone is not the cause of those deaths; it is just another symptom. In fact, when fat is stored subcutaneously, there appears to be little to no increase in mortality, and, for some (middle aged women at least), it is actually protective. The real disease is metabolic syndrome, which affects both thin people and fat people. It is a constellation of disorders including abdominal weight gain, fatty liver disease, high blood pressure, dyslipidemia, and high blood sugar or diabetes. Metabolic syndrome is the killer (often leading to cardiovascular disease, liver or kidney failure, blindness, amputations, and, perhaps, dimentia/Alzheimer's [the studies on this are early and not yet cinclusive]), but our society is so focused on weight that thin people automatically assume they are immune to it and everybody carrying any extra weight is assumed to have one foot in the grave. If you eat like crap (a sugar-laden, high trans fat diet of processed food-like substances), you are at risk unless you won the genetic lottery (and those genetics may just buy you time, not immunity).
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

transfire 12y ago

I suspect, the salient fact that the CDC is leaving out is that many, if not most, of these are from car accidents. Also, by qualifying it as "working-age" it skews the results heavily. What about all the people that did all that drinking and managed to make it past working age? Lucky for us, automated cars are going to solve most of this problem in a decade or two. So a more honest assessment would answer how many adults are dying from non-vehicular drinking causes.

biehl 12y ago
So, try to regulate drinking until automatic cars save us?
- nilved 12y ago
  Yes, prohibition showed us that regulation is an effective way to prevent people from doing things
Hannan 12y ago
>> I suspect, the salient fact that the CDC is leaving out is that many, if not most, of these are from car accidents. "About 1.7 million people died from short-term causes such as crashes or accidents, compared to approximately 800,000 who died from long-term health causes like cancer or strokes, according to the study."
rodgerd 12y ago
How, exactly, would it be "more honest" to exclude a huge chunk of deaths? There's a lot of denial going on in this discussion.

indlebe 12y ago

Does anyone else find it strange that the definitions of binge and heavy drinking vary so much between the men and women groups? I would think that only body weight would be the heavy influence on this. Is USA Today just being sexist?

freditup 12y ago
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but assuming you're not... But first, 5 drinks in 2-3 hrs for men vs. 4 drinks in 2-3 hrs for women isn't that different. Second, women on average weigh less, so that contributes to the difference as you mentioned. And third, there are other ways alcohol affects men and women differently. Edit: Just saw the 15 drinks/week for men vs. 8 drinks/week for women which is a larger difference. However, to call USA Today 'sexist' because of that is kind of out there. These numbers aren't just made up out of thin air: for example, http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/ExtremeDrinking/tabid/91/Default.aspx http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/ExtremeDrinking/tabid/91/De...
- indlebe 12y ago
  >if you're being sarcastic what's "sarcastic"? >there are other ways alcohol affects men and women differently. sources please? :)
  - lostlogin 12y ago
    I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give a few of the answers. Basic anatomical differences like a uterus and breasts are part of the equation. http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/women_alcohol.htm http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/women_alcohol.htm
    - indlebe 12y ago
      >I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give a few of the answers. How does thinking produce answers? >Basic anatomical differences like a uterus and breasts are part of the equation. But what about hermaphrodites? I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give you the impression that I'm being super serious.

nawitus 12y ago

It's about 16% in Finland.

freditup 12y ago

Good reminder I think that we should never pressure anyone to drink. Whether for health, family, religious, personal, or any other reasons, there's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing not to drink alcohol. I enjoy a drink now and then, but I get quite upset when people pressure others to drink.

cclogg 12y ago
I go through that quite a bit lol because I've made the conscious decision not to drink ever (I don't care to spend the money on it nor do I care for the taste). But my vice is drinking soda heh... darn sugar!

mullingitover 12y ago

I've often wondered why we can't replace alcohol with a less damaging recreational drug. We could take a tranqilizer like valium, make a dilute solution of it, add flavoring or whatever it takes to give it alcohol's 'kick' and end up with an acceptable substitute. This isn't to say that valium is 'safe' but it's far less toxic to the body than alcohol.

dredmorbius 12y ago
Soma.
Scoundreller 12y ago
I suspect a lot of the anti-drug[1] lobby is heavy supported by the legal drug lobby[2]. There's just so much to lose by so many people if safer alternatives emerge (ignoring the fact that new industries will emerge). Dr. David Nutt is working on this: http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/feb/27/david-nutt-drink-alcohol-substitute-safer-intoxicant http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/feb/27/david-nu... but there are already a large pile of options, just a lack of political will. [1] Anti-drug referring to anti-illegal-drug. [2] of which consist of drugs that would never pass the medication approval process, but solely exist due to a history of use and grandfathering

quasque 12y ago

Headline should be modified to indicate that the study was carried out in the USA. It's not generally applicable to the world population, or necessarily to all high-income countries.

bluehazed 12y ago

I've pretty much resolved myself to slowly drinking myself to death, I'm pretty sure I'd have killed myself due to boredom or stress otherwise. Hopefully maybe getting out of my current field (devops) and going back into school (have a CS degree to finish) will help a bit.

logicallee 12y ago
lol @ going to college so you can stop drinking. Only the engineering department... :-)
- frozenport 12y ago
  After what happened when Facebook came to our campus, I would assume CS degrees don't fall into this category. Perhaps the folks in Electrical Engineering still got it.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Nope, EEs also party hard. Try maybe some theological university.
- bluehazed 12y ago
  Oh, it's not to stop drinking, it's more to be less miserable :)
middle334 12y ago
I drank very heavily for ~ 20 years, a high functioning alcoholic and software engineer. Most of you have heard of stuff I've worked on. My other HN account has a pretty high karma, this one is a throwaway. I was maybe three months from being homeless, and after being out of work for nearly a year (nobody wanted to hire me, go figure. I thought I had things pretty well covered up...) I found a job with a small company writing simulation software. Two weeks into working for them I lost control and went on a binge and didn't show up for a week, and the CEO went by my condo and asked WTF. I told him. Went into detox later that day, did two weeks in-patient at The Camp in Scotts Valley, then did AA really solidly. It mostly stuck; my earlier visits to AA hadn't been absolutely desperate, and I figure I was pretty close to dying through suicide or something a lot more slow and miserable. I don't work at that company any more, but it took the caring of a CEO who I barely even knew to really wake me up. I'm still sober 15 years later. Just switching jobs won't help. Nor will making promises, or going to school, or switching majors, or exercising, or moving, or just about anything else that doesn't exactly target what alcoholism is all about. This sounds deadly serious, and it is, but in fact AA was a lot of fun and I made a number of fast friends. (Feel free to substitute the organization of your choice, but AA worked well for me and I don't have experience with another group).

dbrannan 12y ago

I remember asking my father why he never drank alcohol. He said, "My dad (your grandfather) and three brothers couldn't leave it alone, so I figure I wouldn't be able to either. If you are wise you will do the same." I'm 46 and never had an alcoholic drink.

TeMPOraL 12y ago
I admire your resolve. Keep it that way. I drank my first beer when I was 18 years old. That was the only beer that year. When 19 I drank two. When 20 I drank four. When 21 I drank eight (yes, really!). Around 23 I started drinking like everyone else. It's funny because I initially didn't drink by choice - thanks to religious upbringing + the general distaste for beer I refused to drink (and, sadly, partying[0]) alcohol, opting for coke instead. What I learned then is that alcoholic beverages just start to taste more the more you drink them. [0] - It's not the booze I didn't drink that I regret; it's the connections with interesting people of various trades I could make, but didn't, because I haven't attended the university grills, etc.
joshbert 12y ago
I had a similar experience to your father growing up and that's exactly the conclusion I reached. Learning what not to do through the example of others can be quite efficient.
x1798DE 12y ago
As a counter-point, I also had heavy alcoholism and drug use on both sides of my family. I drink in moderation, primarily on social occasions, and I almost never drink to the point of inebriation. I have never felt any compulsion to drink to excess.

noname123 12y ago

While we are at it, can we list some other addictions that we use to cope with life. Me personally, it's gambling, pornography, sulking alone, facebooking acquaintances to see how they're doing better than me or worse, checking sports score and living vicariously through the lives of professional athletes on and off the field, checking TechCrunch/Hack News and doing the same with tech billionaires, making up lists and goals alone or with other people that will never come to fruition due to excessive wishful thinking and ambition to overcompensate but fun to preoccupy my mind for the time being. Window-shopping online and offline for the perfect couch, jewelry, fragrance or other consumer goods that is marketed to me. Reading self-help books, attending wellness workshops, "social intelligence" workshops to help me with my awkwardness, tech-meetup's to mingle. Wasting money at pubs, lounges and clubs hanging out with friends by shallow association of work, school, social network where nothing of importance is said and egos are stroked and reciprocated. Going home alone. Or accompanying a date back home but feeling alone. Or sleeping int the same bed, wondering how I got here and still feeling alone. But I'm just doing what I'm told to find someone, don't be picky, "you're not getting younger." Forging intimate moments like taking a trip to Montreal in July, go visit a botanical garden or go skydiving like what I'm told by Hallmark and merchants of the USA, I feel nothing but my CC swiped to the max. Keeping an overpriced apartment in downtown like a dumb bird nest-building for the sole purpose of mating and trying to fit in. So I have to keep working and running round and round in the hamster-wheel to pay for my student loans, car loan, credit card debt, insurances, save up for a mortgage so I can take on even a bigger loan to convince someone that I may or may not like to start a family with me, so that we can both be indebted for the kids' college education loans. But still everyday I wake up, and I keep braving it through. Because I'm hoping maybe just maybe, I can be like Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. Hit it out of the ball park, that is the American Dream, work hard and if things don't work out, keep working even harder and harder, and one day freedom will come for me. I have to believe and try, after all this is the American way.

grimtrigger 12y ago
You don't have to do most of the things on your list. Own your decisions.
frozenport 12y ago

tluyben2 12y ago

Many of my most gifted employees, partners and colleagues are/were heavy drinkers (not alcoholics; I know those, but in other professions); I see a lot of programmers drink heavily simply to 'forget'. For many there simply are not a lot of ways to leave the problem solving of the day for the next day or, god forbid, over the weekend. The only way to lift it over a period is dope (or burnout) for them. I see it as a big issue but I don't know how normal it is; I would say very normal as I witnessed it in 100s of programmers, but that might be restricted to the regions (EU/RU) I mostly worked in. I can understand it though; I have been working for 13 hours today on a hard coding issue and in the end I found a bug in the solution. But that was 'enough' I thought and closed the laptop 4 hours ago. I cannot stop thinking about it and I just opened my computer to type this and solve the bug (It is 00:30 am sunday morning here). Booze would've let me forget. What ways are you all using to do that? I tried meditating which works but after that it just pops back.

purringmeow 12y ago
Exercise. You are focused on reps or breathing and you zone out. Really effective way to shift your focus and improves mental condition too.
- tluyben2 12y ago
  Agreed. That's also a good way and I do that too, actually today for an hour, but after the cooldown I want to still solve the issue today... Mind you ; I really love what I do and it's my work and hobby and passion, but sometimes I want to shut it off.
  - purringmeow 12y ago
    Going out with people who aren't in IT helps too. I too have had that problem of just wanting to stay until 05:00 to do something, but I tell myself that's not the effective way and go to bed regardless. I don't know you, so I don't know what else to say. Just experiment - try mixing exercise with active social life and new experiences. Go skydive or something like that :)

aaron695 12y ago

I would suspect suicide is a significant part of this figure. The fact this isn't mentioned is a worry. Even the concept of singular occupant motor vehicular accidents(Drunk or not) are not quite what they necessarily seem.

Spooky23 12y ago

You need to pay careful attention to statistics for stuff like this. A drunk guy sleeping in a bus shelter who gets struck by a driver who wasn't drinking is still labeled as an alcohol-related car accident, for example.

millstone 12y ago

A woman who drinks a glass of wine a night and two on Friday is a "heavy drinker?" Having two mixed drinks within a three hour period is a binge? I don't know if the science supports these numbers, but they certainly do not agree with common definitions.

saulrh 12y ago
If you can tie a definition of "heavy drinker" to "causative factor in 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults", I don't care whether it agrees with the common definition, it's still useful. If anything, it's the reverse - if some quantity is enough to cause that much loss of life, then it's probably "heavy".

anovikov 12y ago

One in 6 - sounds like too much - what is the definition/threshold for 'excessive drinking'?