15 ms·

Mozilla to sell '$25' Firefox OS smartphones in India

176 points by yitchelle 12y ago

Zikes 12y ago
$70 in the US. When the FirefoxOS developer device was posted on here some time ago half the comments were about how it was missing feature X or Y that Android or iPhone has had for ages, and therefore it just couldn't compete. A $70 price point doesn't put them in competition with other smart phones, it puts Mozilla at the fore of a new class of customer.
- yitchelle 12y ago
  Agree with you here. At this price point, smart phone is starting to be a commodity item, just like the shirt you are wearing, like the cup of coffee you drank this morning or like that piece of apple you ate. Just need for the service provider to give ground breaking plans. Imagine having a flat data plan for $5/month at LTE speed with this type of smart phone.
  - mrbill 12y ago
    This type of phone is going to have 3G data at most.
    - jhatax 12y ago
      This phone lacking 4G shouldn't be a show-stopper in India, where most of the network providers only have 3G networks deployed. Reliance has announced a 4G network, but it hasn't been deployed yet.
    - soapdog 12y ago
      First reference design of this device didn't had 3G, it had 2G and WIFI. This is a $25 dollars phone, there is a limit on the chips you can afford with that amount of F.O.B.
  - outside1234 12y ago
    "flat data plan for $5/month at LTE speed with this type of smart phone" Flat data plans are gone forever I'm afraid. We might get more data for less money over time but there is no way they are going back to unmetered data.
    - arboroia 12y ago
      Not sure how it is in the USA, but unmetered data plans do exist - here in Ireland it's the equivalent of ~$27 for unmetered 4G data (with a certain limited number of calls and texts included)
    - maccard 12y ago
      You're obviously in the US I take it? I'm in ireland and have a UK sim card too. Both my providers (granted, same provider in both countries) give me unlimited data, for 20 euro/25 pounds a month. I also get calls and texts included in that.
    - yitchelle 12y ago
      Un-metered data in Germany as well. Only the speed gets throttled when I reached my quota. This is not much of a problem with so many open wifi access points around these days.
      - batuhanicoz 12y ago
        Same thing here in Turkey with Vodafone. Last time I've used that plan it was 9 liras/3$ a month.
      - andor 12y ago
        Only the speed gets throttled ...by a factor of >100, which narrows down the use cases a lot. They don't completely turn off your internet, but they turn off >99%.
- rhelmer 12y ago
  Where do you see $70? The article talks about current phones that you can buy right now at that price - those are different from the new $25 phones (which will be sold in India in "the next few months" also according to the article): "The current handsets, which are sold via eBay, retail at £59.99 in the UK, or $69.99 in the US."
  - valarauca1 12y ago
    The latest round of limited production developer phones sold for $70 usd each.
    - soapdog 12y ago
      This is not a limited run or a developer phone. This is a phone for the end user in the entry level class who can't afford a more expensive device.
- akgerber 12y ago
  Moto E is US$130 now, and will likely go down a decent amount when it's not brand new.
  - soapdog 12y ago
    This phone is not for the U.S. for example here in Brazil phones are much more expensive, an iPhone will go for U$1500 or even U$2000... The $25 phone in the title is aimed for India, a whole different market with different price points and mechanics.
- caryme 12y ago
  I just bought a $69 Nokia Lumia 521 (Windows Phone) off contract. Mozilla isn't at the forefront here - both Nokia/Microsoft and Motorola are driving down the off-contract price point.
  - Gustomaximus 12y ago
    $25 for a smartphone is a massive step forward in accessibility on $69 when you consider these guys might be earning $60 a month.
  - m1sta_ 12y ago
    Can I ask where? At that price I'll grab one too.
  - TheAnimus 12y ago
    These phones are actually pretty damned decent for the money! I'm looking to equip everyone in our startup with a 'company' phone, that is to say one that I can wipe remotely without anyone being upset. Once 8.1 is out, the 521 will allow me to put a secure VPN connection, easily toggleable, has a good enough for hell RDP client running some powershell. I can also fairly easily make something to use WMI to query a bunch of important details for our prod environments. That's really not a bad price point for such a device.
- codezero 12y ago
  The problem that has plagued these inexpensive phones is that you're not usually selling to a typical "consumer." That is, the people who buy these phones, won't buy much else, so it will hurt the ecosystem in the long run. This happened to Palm with the Pre and Pixi. I created some apps for it and it was clear that the demographic wasn't shelling out money for apps or anything else, this makes it really unattractive as a platform for developers.
  - fred_durst 12y ago
    I think you might be assuming Mozilla is trying to create a captive app ecosystem. The idea is that Mozilla will work with standard web technologies and apply them to the phone. The demographic in this case would be the same demographic that uses the web not Firefox OS specifically.
    - codezero 12y ago
      Hm, no, my point is that in order to be successful the platform needs an economy. Just producing cheap phones doesn't create an economy.
      - vertex-four 12y ago
        Well, specifically, it needs developers and it needs manufacturers. As it's an open-source project stewarded by Mozilla, it will likely have developers at least until Mozilla run out of funding, and it might even survive that if they can get enough outside developers involved. Manufacturers are a bit more tricky, but on the other hand, there's always been manufacturers of cheap phones and there likely always will be.
        codezero 12y ago
        Well, to get my point across further, it needs customers willing to pay for content in the ecosystem. Developers may be there but they won't sustain a presence if they can't make enough money to make it worth their while, so unless Mozilla is going to pay them for premium apps, they will need an audience that is willing to buy them. This generally means that targeting the lowest end of the market isn't a great idea unless you are trying to make money off the sale of the device alone and not ongoing services like apps.
- soapdog 12y ago
  Mozilla is not selling phones in the U.S. Mozilla doesn't actually sell phones. Carriers and Factories sell phones. The $70 phone you mention is being sold by ZTE using Mozilla Firefox OS as its system.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  That's not the phone being mentioned here. There are multiple Firefox OS models.
hatred 12y ago
For a $25 price tag, this has the potential to appeal to a lot of Indians in the rural areas and being a potential rival to other in house android brands like Micromax et al. Even if they support the basic subset of functionality exposed by Android, it should be more then enough for it do well. Looking forward to more updates on the launch.
diafygi 12y ago
I can't wait to start hacking with these. $25 in India puts these in the range of raspberry pi, plus you get wireless and a touchscreen!
- thoughtpalette 12y ago
  Definitely sounds like a lot of fun!
dpeck 12y ago
Its a shame that Tmobile US has such odd gsm frequencies than the rest of the world, and as such are unsupported by any of the FFOS phones so far. With their embracing of prepaid plans combined with inexpensive smart phones could really open up anytime information access for people who cannot otherwise afford it.
- b_emery 12y ago
  From: http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/sim-card http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/sim-card "T-Mobile’s network currently only supports GSM-compatible phones. Only 3G phones that support the 1700-MHz band are compatible (not all 3G phones support it). If you own a 3G phone that does not support the 1700-MHz band, it will operate at 2G (EDGE) speeds on our network." Do you mean that data rates with Tmobile will be slow? It seems to be supported otherwise?
  - dpeck 12y ago
    Right, it would work. However the modern web, even when "optimized for mobile" is usually a very frustrating experience on 2G, and even some 3G connections. Stuck at 2G most would probably use the data very sparingly and be stuck using whatever wifi they find.
- lxt 12y ago
  I've been using T-mobile with my FxOS phone for nearly a year.
- lmorchard 12y ago
  I'm on T-Mobile in the US, been swapping a SIM card between an Android daily driver and an FxOS dev phone for months now. Works fine.
linux_devil 12y ago
This segment has potential to crack into rural markets of India where "Nokia" and chinese handsets rule . Too early to comment till features are not released . Lot of chinese handsets provide loud music players and camera ( though not reliable).
PhasmaFelis 12y ago
What's with the scare quotes in the headline?
- snori74 12y ago
  British news headlines seem to use these far more than I would expect. However, in this case it's perhaps not unreasonable: These are not yet on sale at that price; while the Mozilla COO "suggested" that they would retail at that, it's not clear that he's the one setting the final price - and the linked announcement actually does not include the $25 pricing.
soapdog 12y ago
Just so that people that are not following Firefox OS can know some tidbits: * The mission of Firefox OS is to bring the next billion people online. Many in the poorest classes can't afford a computer or a smartphone and with the web being a wonderful resource with the potential to transform the life of its users, Mozilla saw that it needed to focus on those that are not attended by the current crop of entry level smartphones. * Another objective is to bring back the freedoms we enjoy in the web into the mobile ecosystem which means no walled gardens and no exclusivity in the sense that the phone uses HTML5 based apps than can be easily shared between Android, iOS, Tizen, Ubuntu, $NEWFANCY, Firefox OS. Using HTML5 based apps doesn't mean the phone needs to be online, it just means that we're using an agreed stardard to build apps on proven technology that is not owned by a single vendor. You're free to build apps and ship them just like you are free to build a webpage and place it online without the need to request permission from Apple or Google. * Many new internet users are browsing the web thru mobile devices. In some places, mobile devices are already 25% of the internet users and rising. But there was no platform that took HTML5 and the Web as a first class citizen. Firefox OS is a hero platform for the web to prove that it can work on a mobile ecosystem and that we can all use shared technology that is interoperable instead of doing this 1990s flashback of Obj-C here and Java there thing. DISCLAIMER: I am a Mozilla Rep and I wrote a FOSS quick guide about how to develop for Firefox OS at https://leanpub.com/quickguidefirefoxosdevelopment/ https://leanpub.com/quickguidefirefoxosdevelopment/ that is helping lots of new Indian developers get ready for this launch ;-)
- tsycho 12y ago
  While this is awesome, the bigger problem in India is that data plans are often prohibitively expensive, and the people who can afford data plans prefer swankier phones (since the phone is a status symbol). But this is a good start, so best of luck :)
  - jk 12y ago
    Data plans are not too expensive in India. One can get 1GB plan for 3G data in Rs.139-Rs.160 ($2.35-$2.7) depending on the service provider. A lot of people are not using data plans as they don't have good phones. Most of the cheap handsets in the market are very slow and lack features that needs data.
hyp0 12y ago
what are CPU/RAM specs?
zhyder 12y ago
What makes Firefox OS inherently more cost effective than Android? I doubt you'd need a weaker CPU or less memory for the same amount of responsiveness. Or is that it's possible for Android phones to be as inexpensive, but no one's bothered creating a decent one at that price yet (just like no one bothered creating even a decent $130 one until the Moto E).
- abrowne 12y ago
  Fewer layers between machine and app -- just Gonk (linux layer) and Gecko (application runtime). With Android, you have all the Android runtime in between.
  - Pacabel 12y ago
    How do you figure there are "fewer layers"? Both are built upon Linux. So we can say that they're pretty much equivalent at that level. Then there is a runtime and libraries providing common functionality above that. Again, we have pretty much the same in both cases. Then we have the apps running on top of that, making use of the functionality of the two lower layers. Once again, it's a similar situation in both cases. I really don't see the differences that you claim are there.
    - userbinator 12y ago
      And don't forget that HTML + JS + CSS came from a completely different use case than Java, so there's a certain amount of parsing overhead too. Whether or not there being more native code in FFOS can counterbalance this overhead is yet to be seen, but it will be interesting to compare. (In any case I would like to see more native code apps for mobile devices, as they are naturally more resource-constrained.)
spike021 12y ago
Is there a timeframe for release mentioned anywhere? I skimmed the BBC article and the WSJ article it's sourced from but couldn't find one.
jestinjoy1 12y ago
From Indian perspective it may not be a good decision for Mozilla to team up with Intex and Spice. They produce phones priced cheap but their track record in quality is not so good. People have become more quality conscious now. I think it may end up like Tata Nano - cheap car but not many takers.
enthdegree 12y ago
Sakshat cellphone edition
GeneralMaximus 12y ago
(Apologies for this rant. I'm just hoping someone from Mozilla sees this here.) I was very excited last year when I found out that there were phones running Firefox OS that you could actually use. I was disappointed when I found out that the only way to get my hands on the hardware in India was to fly to a different country, buy the hardware there, and fly back to India. It's been a year since that day, and I still haven't been able to get my hands on a Firefox OS device (except briefly playing with a friend's Keon). I get excited every time there's a Firefox OS announcement from Mozilla, only to be let down by the inevitable "We're sorry, we don't ship this product to your country." If there's a good reason Firefox OS developer devices still aren't available in India – one of the countries Mozilla is targeting with these phones – I'd like to hear it. I've built a couple of webapps for desktop browsers, and I really like the idea of being able to use the same development stack on a mobile device. Webapps on Android and iOS can do a lot these days, but there's always that one API that you need that is missing. I was hoping I could build something fun with FirefoxOS, but I suppose I should just suck it up already and learn how to use the Android SDK.
- contingencies 12y ago
  Send me an email and I'll send you one for free.
  - GeneralMaximus 12y ago
    That's a very kind offer! Thank you :) Unfortunately, I'll have to refuse. I'll probably just pick up one of these $25 devices once they're out. (Or, I'll buy the Flame if it's ever back in stock and shipping to India.)
    - contingencies 12y ago
      I'm glad you replied as someone else got in touch and expressed interest. I said I'd wait until a week had elapsed or you'd got back to me. So it'll be going to a good home, regardless... :)
- avighnay 12y ago
brickcap 12y ago
Why did they have to announce it just 2 days after I bought a new andorid phone! I could have saved some money. Joking aside this news is very exciting for me mainly because I will finally have a good reason to try out pouch db. One question that I have though is how the updates to the os are delivered to the user? Are they managed by manufacturers or can any one with access to internet just download it from a central repository? A request: I implore that you keep a good stock of phones ready. Because I don't want it to go out of stock after the first day at sale.
Naushad 12y ago
People in India are Brand concious like anywhere else, Intex and Spice do not really command any good selling space in India. It would be better if Mozilla works with Intex and Spice to just get the Hardware and Software done and let the New brand name be Mozilla Or Firefox Phone something on Similar lines, this way, the brand recall and brand recognition will be instant with regards to the phone.
anuraj 12y ago
Respect for the endeavour. But India presents many challenges. The masses this phone targets may not be able to use it effectively unless the UI is extremely simple. Remember that India has most illiterates on the planet and the most people who earn less than $2 a day. Smart phone penetration is a measly 10% now though growing at a healthy 50% per year. This is despite smart phones being made available at less than $75 price point already. Would be glued on the ground.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Mozilla has an opportunity to gather a lot of data about non-text usability. Let's hope they can release that data in an open format to allow researchers to make use of it.
known 12y ago
Why India? Why not China?

176 points by yitchelle 12y ago

Zikes 12y ago

$70 in the US. When the FirefoxOS developer device was posted on here some time ago half the comments were about how it was missing feature X or Y that Android or iPhone has had for ages, and therefore it just couldn't compete. A $70 price point doesn't put them in competition with other smart phones, it puts Mozilla at the fore of a new class of customer.

yitchelle 12y ago
Agree with you here. At this price point, smart phone is starting to be a commodity item, just like the shirt you are wearing, like the cup of coffee you drank this morning or like that piece of apple you ate. Just need for the service provider to give ground breaking plans. Imagine having a flat data plan for $5/month at LTE speed with this type of smart phone.
- mrbill 12y ago
  This type of phone is going to have 3G data at most.
  - jhatax 12y ago
    This phone lacking 4G shouldn't be a show-stopper in India, where most of the network providers only have 3G networks deployed. Reliance has announced a 4G network, but it hasn't been deployed yet.
  - soapdog 12y ago
    First reference design of this device didn't had 3G, it had 2G and WIFI. This is a $25 dollars phone, there is a limit on the chips you can afford with that amount of F.O.B.
- outside1234 12y ago
  "flat data plan for $5/month at LTE speed with this type of smart phone" Flat data plans are gone forever I'm afraid. We might get more data for less money over time but there is no way they are going back to unmetered data.
  - arboroia 12y ago
    Not sure how it is in the USA, but unmetered data plans do exist - here in Ireland it's the equivalent of ~$27 for unmetered 4G data (with a certain limited number of calls and texts included)
  - maccard 12y ago
    You're obviously in the US I take it? I'm in ireland and have a UK sim card too. Both my providers (granted, same provider in both countries) give me unlimited data, for 20 euro/25 pounds a month. I also get calls and texts included in that.
  - yitchelle 12y ago
    Un-metered data in Germany as well. Only the speed gets throttled when I reached my quota. This is not much of a problem with so many open wifi access points around these days.
    - batuhanicoz 12y ago
      Same thing here in Turkey with Vodafone. Last time I've used that plan it was 9 liras/3$ a month.
    - andor 12y ago
      Only the speed gets throttled ...by a factor of >100, which narrows down the use cases a lot. They don't completely turn off your internet, but they turn off >99%.
rhelmer 12y ago
Where do you see $70? The article talks about current phones that you can buy right now at that price - those are different from the new $25 phones (which will be sold in India in "the next few months" also according to the article): "The current handsets, which are sold via eBay, retail at £59.99 in the UK, or $69.99 in the US."
- valarauca1 12y ago
  The latest round of limited production developer phones sold for $70 usd each.
  - soapdog 12y ago
    This is not a limited run or a developer phone. This is a phone for the end user in the entry level class who can't afford a more expensive device.
akgerber 12y ago
Moto E is US$130 now, and will likely go down a decent amount when it's not brand new.
- soapdog 12y ago
  This phone is not for the U.S. for example here in Brazil phones are much more expensive, an iPhone will go for U$1500 or even U$2000... The $25 phone in the title is aimed for India, a whole different market with different price points and mechanics.
caryme 12y ago
I just bought a $69 Nokia Lumia 521 (Windows Phone) off contract. Mozilla isn't at the forefront here - both Nokia/Microsoft and Motorola are driving down the off-contract price point.
- Gustomaximus 12y ago
  $25 for a smartphone is a massive step forward in accessibility on $69 when you consider these guys might be earning $60 a month.
- m1sta_ 12y ago
  Can I ask where? At that price I'll grab one too.
- TheAnimus 12y ago
  These phones are actually pretty damned decent for the money! I'm looking to equip everyone in our startup with a 'company' phone, that is to say one that I can wipe remotely without anyone being upset. Once 8.1 is out, the 521 will allow me to put a secure VPN connection, easily toggleable, has a good enough for hell RDP client running some powershell. I can also fairly easily make something to use WMI to query a bunch of important details for our prod environments. That's really not a bad price point for such a device.
codezero 12y ago
The problem that has plagued these inexpensive phones is that you're not usually selling to a typical "consumer." That is, the people who buy these phones, won't buy much else, so it will hurt the ecosystem in the long run. This happened to Palm with the Pre and Pixi. I created some apps for it and it was clear that the demographic wasn't shelling out money for apps or anything else, this makes it really unattractive as a platform for developers.
- fred_durst 12y ago
  I think you might be assuming Mozilla is trying to create a captive app ecosystem. The idea is that Mozilla will work with standard web technologies and apply them to the phone. The demographic in this case would be the same demographic that uses the web not Firefox OS specifically.
  - codezero 12y ago
    Hm, no, my point is that in order to be successful the platform needs an economy. Just producing cheap phones doesn't create an economy.
    - vertex-four 12y ago
      Well, specifically, it needs developers and it needs manufacturers. As it's an open-source project stewarded by Mozilla, it will likely have developers at least until Mozilla run out of funding, and it might even survive that if they can get enough outside developers involved. Manufacturers are a bit more tricky, but on the other hand, there's always been manufacturers of cheap phones and there likely always will be.
      - codezero 12y ago
        Well, to get my point across further, it needs customers willing to pay for content in the ecosystem. Developers may be there but they won't sustain a presence if they can't make enough money to make it worth their while, so unless Mozilla is going to pay them for premium apps, they will need an audience that is willing to buy them. This generally means that targeting the lowest end of the market isn't a great idea unless you are trying to make money off the sale of the device alone and not ongoing services like apps.
soapdog 12y ago
Mozilla is not selling phones in the U.S. Mozilla doesn't actually sell phones. Carriers and Factories sell phones. The $70 phone you mention is being sold by ZTE using Mozilla Firefox OS as its system.
higherpurpose 12y ago
That's not the phone being mentioned here. There are multiple Firefox OS models.

hatred 12y ago

For a $25 price tag, this has the potential to appeal to a lot of Indians in the rural areas and being a potential rival to other in house android brands like Micromax et al. Even if they support the basic subset of functionality exposed by Android, it should be more then enough for it do well. Looking forward to more updates on the launch.

diafygi 12y ago

I can't wait to start hacking with these. $25 in India puts these in the range of raspberry pi, plus you get wireless and a touchscreen!

thoughtpalette 12y ago
Definitely sounds like a lot of fun!

dpeck 12y ago

Its a shame that Tmobile US has such odd gsm frequencies than the rest of the world, and as such are unsupported by any of the FFOS phones so far. With their embracing of prepaid plans combined with inexpensive smart phones could really open up anytime information access for people who cannot otherwise afford it.

b_emery 12y ago
From: http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/sim-card http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/sim-card "T-Mobile’s network currently only supports GSM-compatible phones. Only 3G phones that support the 1700-MHz band are compatible (not all 3G phones support it). If you own a 3G phone that does not support the 1700-MHz band, it will operate at 2G (EDGE) speeds on our network." Do you mean that data rates with Tmobile will be slow? It seems to be supported otherwise?
- dpeck 12y ago
  Right, it would work. However the modern web, even when "optimized for mobile" is usually a very frustrating experience on 2G, and even some 3G connections. Stuck at 2G most would probably use the data very sparingly and be stuck using whatever wifi they find.
lxt 12y ago
I've been using T-mobile with my FxOS phone for nearly a year.
lmorchard 12y ago
I'm on T-Mobile in the US, been swapping a SIM card between an Android daily driver and an FxOS dev phone for months now. Works fine.

linux_devil 12y ago

This segment has potential to crack into rural markets of India where "Nokia" and chinese handsets rule . Too early to comment till features are not released . Lot of chinese handsets provide loud music players and camera ( though not reliable).

PhasmaFelis 12y ago

What's with the scare quotes in the headline?

snori74 12y ago
British news headlines seem to use these far more than I would expect. However, in this case it's perhaps not unreasonable: These are not yet on sale at that price; while the Mozilla COO "suggested" that they would retail at that, it's not clear that he's the one setting the final price - and the linked announcement actually does not include the $25 pricing.

soapdog 12y ago

Just so that people that are not following Firefox OS can know some tidbits: * The mission of Firefox OS is to bring the next billion people online. Many in the poorest classes can't afford a computer or a smartphone and with the web being a wonderful resource with the potential to transform the life of its users, Mozilla saw that it needed to focus on those that are not attended by the current crop of entry level smartphones. * Another objective is to bring back the freedoms we enjoy in the web into the mobile ecosystem which means no walled gardens and no exclusivity in the sense that the phone uses HTML5 based apps than can be easily shared between Android, iOS, Tizen, Ubuntu, $NEWFANCY, Firefox OS. Using HTML5 based apps doesn't mean the phone needs to be online, it just means that we're using an agreed stardard to build apps on proven technology that is not owned by a single vendor. You're free to build apps and ship them just like you are free to build a webpage and place it online without the need to request permission from Apple or Google. * Many new internet users are browsing the web thru mobile devices. In some places, mobile devices are already 25% of the internet users and rising. But there was no platform that took HTML5 and the Web as a first class citizen. Firefox OS is a hero platform for the web to prove that it can work on a mobile ecosystem and that we can all use shared technology that is interoperable instead of doing this 1990s flashback of Obj-C here and Java there thing. DISCLAIMER: I am a Mozilla Rep and I wrote a FOSS quick guide about how to develop for Firefox OS at https://leanpub.com/quickguidefirefoxosdevelopment/ https://leanpub.com/quickguidefirefoxosdevelopment/ that is helping lots of new Indian developers get ready for this launch ;-)

tsycho 12y ago
While this is awesome, the bigger problem in India is that data plans are often prohibitively expensive, and the people who can afford data plans prefer swankier phones (since the phone is a status symbol). But this is a good start, so best of luck :)
- jk 12y ago
  Data plans are not too expensive in India. One can get 1GB plan for 3G data in Rs.139-Rs.160 ($2.35-$2.7) depending on the service provider. A lot of people are not using data plans as they don't have good phones. Most of the cheap handsets in the market are very slow and lack features that needs data.

hyp0 12y ago

what are CPU/RAM specs?

zhyder 12y ago

What makes Firefox OS inherently more cost effective than Android? I doubt you'd need a weaker CPU or less memory for the same amount of responsiveness. Or is that it's possible for Android phones to be as inexpensive, but no one's bothered creating a decent one at that price yet (just like no one bothered creating even a decent $130 one until the Moto E).

abrowne 12y ago
Fewer layers between machine and app -- just Gonk (linux layer) and Gecko (application runtime). With Android, you have all the Android runtime in between.
- Pacabel 12y ago
  How do you figure there are "fewer layers"? Both are built upon Linux. So we can say that they're pretty much equivalent at that level. Then there is a runtime and libraries providing common functionality above that. Again, we have pretty much the same in both cases. Then we have the apps running on top of that, making use of the functionality of the two lower layers. Once again, it's a similar situation in both cases. I really don't see the differences that you claim are there.
  - userbinator 12y ago
    And don't forget that HTML + JS + CSS came from a completely different use case than Java, so there's a certain amount of parsing overhead too. Whether or not there being more native code in FFOS can counterbalance this overhead is yet to be seen, but it will be interesting to compare. (In any case I would like to see more native code apps for mobile devices, as they are naturally more resource-constrained.)

spike021 12y ago

Is there a timeframe for release mentioned anywhere? I skimmed the BBC article and the WSJ article it's sourced from but couldn't find one.

jestinjoy1 12y ago

From Indian perspective it may not be a good decision for Mozilla to team up with Intex and Spice. They produce phones priced cheap but their track record in quality is not so good. People have become more quality conscious now. I think it may end up like Tata Nano - cheap car but not many takers.

enthdegree 12y ago

Sakshat cellphone edition

GeneralMaximus 12y ago

(Apologies for this rant. I'm just hoping someone from Mozilla sees this here.) I was very excited last year when I found out that there were phones running Firefox OS that you could actually use. I was disappointed when I found out that the only way to get my hands on the hardware in India was to fly to a different country, buy the hardware there, and fly back to India. It's been a year since that day, and I still haven't been able to get my hands on a Firefox OS device (except briefly playing with a friend's Keon). I get excited every time there's a Firefox OS announcement from Mozilla, only to be let down by the inevitable "We're sorry, we don't ship this product to your country." If there's a good reason Firefox OS developer devices still aren't available in India – one of the countries Mozilla is targeting with these phones – I'd like to hear it. I've built a couple of webapps for desktop browsers, and I really like the idea of being able to use the same development stack on a mobile device. Webapps on Android and iOS can do a lot these days, but there's always that one API that you need that is missing. I was hoping I could build something fun with FirefoxOS, but I suppose I should just suck it up already and learn how to use the Android SDK.

contingencies 12y ago
Send me an email and I'll send you one for free.
- GeneralMaximus 12y ago
  That's a very kind offer! Thank you :) Unfortunately, I'll have to refuse. I'll probably just pick up one of these $25 devices once they're out. (Or, I'll buy the Flame if it's ever back in stock and shipping to India.)
  - contingencies 12y ago
    I'm glad you replied as someone else got in touch and expressed interest. I said I'd wait until a week had elapsed or you'd got back to me. So it'll be going to a good home, regardless... :)
avighnay 12y ago

brickcap 12y ago

Why did they have to announce it just 2 days after I bought a new andorid phone! I could have saved some money. Joking aside this news is very exciting for me mainly because I will finally have a good reason to try out pouch db. One question that I have though is how the updates to the os are delivered to the user? Are they managed by manufacturers or can any one with access to internet just download it from a central repository? A request: I implore that you keep a good stock of phones ready. Because I don't want it to go out of stock after the first day at sale.

Naushad 12y ago

People in India are Brand concious like anywhere else, Intex and Spice do not really command any good selling space in India. It would be better if Mozilla works with Intex and Spice to just get the Hardware and Software done and let the New brand name be Mozilla Or Firefox Phone something on Similar lines, this way, the brand recall and brand recognition will be instant with regards to the phone.

anuraj 12y ago

Respect for the endeavour. But India presents many challenges. The masses this phone targets may not be able to use it effectively unless the UI is extremely simple. Remember that India has most illiterates on the planet and the most people who earn less than $2 a day. Smart phone penetration is a measly 10% now though growing at a healthy 50% per year. This is despite smart phones being made available at less than $75 price point already. Would be glued on the ground.

DanBC 12y ago
Mozilla has an opportunity to gather a lot of data about non-text usability. Let's hope they can release that data in an open format to allow researchers to make use of it.

known 12y ago

Why India? Why not China?