8 ms·

Visual Studio 14 Preview

140 points by Permit 12y ago

AndrewGaspar 12y ago
Seems to mostly be a packaging of features we already knew about, but it's nice to see them trying to keep with the faster release cycle.
- jongalloway2 12y ago
  The release schedule's been that way since ~2012: http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/release-archive-vso.aspx http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/release-archive-vso.a... Both as a user and a Microsoft employee, I'm happy to have minimal secrets and surprises when it comes to dev features. Early info and access usually means better software.
rayiner 12y ago
Any hope of a Win8/Metro version?
- archon 12y ago
  Why would you want a Metro version? (I'm really curious, not just hating on Metro.)
  - rayiner 12y ago
    I like metro better, with its full-screen/tiled modality, and find it really frustrating as well as unaesthetic to have to switch back and forth to the desktop. If Microsoft's own apps won't make the switch, it seems like they'll never manage to get rid of the desktop.
    - infogulch 12y ago
      I think the complexity of software development warrants a pass on the switch to Metro. There are so many things going on that can't be simplified that it's not worth it. Also, Microsoft doesn't want to kill the desktop. Enterprise uses the desktop, so it's staying for the foreseeable future. Full stop.
      - rayiner 12y ago
        Is there any reason applications with complex functionality can't be written in Metro? And if Microsoft isn't trying to kill the desktop, why does it exist as a separate world in Windows 8 severed from the main Metro UI?
        infogulch 12y ago
        Metro exists separate from desktop because they couldn't figure out how to make the desktop work on a touch-centric interface like tablets and phones, and because desktop apps are bound to x86, which precludes many phones and tablets because of battery life reasons.
        rayiner 12y ago
        But why have the schism on desktop devices? I don't want to run Visual Studio on my phone. But if I get say a Surface Pro device, I'd like to not have to switch back and forth between two totally different worlds all the time, without giving up modern amenities like resolution independence, etc.
        greatdox 12y ago
        That is why people want to stick with XP/7 instead of 8.X because they don't like the Modern GUI (It was called Metro until Microsoft was sued over the name) and feel like it is a giant step backward to the 1992 MS-DOS days of AOL for DOS or the old Prodigy of everything in small Windows that you cannot even re-size or have any 'visual clues' how they work like the Desktop and Start Menu of the Classic Windows has. For example 'visual clues' in the Classic Windows have minimize and maximize buttons and the "X" button means close. These Modern GUI Windows, where are the 'visual clues'? It breaks the way Windows is supposed to work. You have to drag the mouse to the bottom or top right side of the screen to access the 'Charms Bar' to do stuff in it, and Windows-C as a shortcut. I tried the touchscreen and it is a nightmare trying to make the correct type of swipe. Sometimes it does things you don't want it to do. Plus a lot of desktop apps cannot be converted to Modern GUI mode because it lacks the gadgets the desktop has to make things easier to use. The Visual Studio IDE for example has so many tool icons and toolbars that not all of it will fit in a Modern GUI screen. It would need a major rewrite of the GUI, and force all developers to relearn all of their Visual Studio skills. Remember when Office 2007 made that Ribbon bar? It was worse than Clippy the Office Assistant type of annoying. Many compared Modern GUI to New Coke, the Classic Version was always better. If not for Desktop mode I could not use my Windows 8.1 Pro device.
    - daigoba66 12y ago
      I agree; they'll never get rid of the desktop. Certain classes of software, such as those based around an MDI, will never have a home in the hyper-focused and single task-oriented world of Metro (and iOS for that matter).
      - rayiner 12y ago
        Why does Visual Studio need MDI? XCode and Lighttable and Sublimetext get by just fine with panes, tabs, and dividers. I could totally see say Lighttable being a Metro app.
        roryokane 12y ago
        Of Xcode, LightTable, and Sublime Text, all three of them support opening code in new windows in addition to in panes, tabs, and dividers. So their popularity is not evidence of MDIs being unnecessary. Whether their MDIs are necessary depends on how many people use multiple windows in those apps, and would dislike using other views if multiple windows were not an option.
        schrodinger 12y ago
        Visual studio does definitely allow that, although I honestly don't use it very often.
        barrkel 12y ago
        Apps with tabs are MDI - VS uses tabs for MDI. Speaking personally, due to the massive size of modern screens, the only application I run full-screen any more is my video player. Metro is a non-starter for working with multiple overlapping windows. I normally develop with at least 6 windows in frequent use - two browsers (one for doc / misc and one for app) and 4 terminals (two for simultaneous login to front and back nodes, one running the app along with mysql sessions, and one running emacs). The idea of using a single full-screen dev environment, or perhaps with one other window docked to the side, seems ridiculously inefficient. I need to see those other windows. I'm frequently tailing logs, running tests in the background, provisioning VMs, all little things that need to be visible so I can see when something goes wrong and I need to take action.
    - QuadDamaged 12y ago
      alt-shift-enter, go fullscreen, ditch the windows chrome. I don't understand how you would want a Metro UI for vs.net - such a waste of screen real-estate!
- edgyswingset 12y ago
  Very doubtful. They don't seem to be pushing productivity apps away from the desktop interface.
- codeulike 12y ago
  That would be unlikely, as discussed in other comments. But see Project Siena for a Microsoft app-building app that is Metro http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/projectsiena/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/projectsiena/default.aspx
  - mekael 12y ago
    Off topic: Have you used this at all? If so what's your take on it? I've heard about it and that's pretty much it, but got the gist that it's more of a "toy" development environment than anything else. --No offense meant by "toy"--
    - codeulike 12y ago
      No, havent tried it, just seen it in the store.
      - codeulike 12y ago
        From the blurb "Building a Siena app is as easy as editing a PowerPoint presentation or Excel spreadsheet. You place some visuals on a canvas. You hook them up to your data or favorite services. You customize how your app looks and works. Then, if you need special logic and intelligence, you write some Excel-like expressions. You can use your app immediately, or share it with colleagues or the world." So aimed at non-programmers but with some modern stuff like the ability to talk to restful services.
- yread 12y ago
  You can just hide all the menus and buttons and put the editor full screen. That's pretty close to metro I think
TillE 12y ago
Has Microsoft stated whether they intend to keep the WinXP-compatible toolchain around? I imagine they won't now that XP is officially discontinued. Then again, Windows Server 2003 is still hanging around until next year, so maybe they won't ditch that compiler just yet.
- taspeotis 12y ago
  (Speculation, I haven't actually installed VS14 and side-by-side is not supported so I couldn't test this anyway.) It's probably gone but the toolset targeting is likely still around. So if you've VS2013 installed with the XP-compatible compiler and Windows SDK then you can just choose that toolset. Usual disclaimer applies: it's an old compiler, you won't get the new language features etc.
- greatdox 12y ago
  I think so because Windows XP POS has support until 2019 and businesses still need to develop POS apps for their embedded POS systems. Even if the consumer XP has dropped support the POS version of XP has not yet. Too many ATMs and POS systems that still run XP, give them until 2019 to switch to Windows 8 POS systems.
  - yuhong 12y ago
    I don't think they are going to keep XP support for that reason alone though.
- cokernel_hacker 12y ago
  This version of Visual Studio still seems to have XP support.
recentdarkness 12y ago
What a pity that you cannot install it side by side with other version of Visual Studio. Well that means I will have to setup a VM for it :D
- Amezarak 12y ago
  I don't think it's that you can't install it side by side, they simply don't recommend it while this is in beta just in case. "Given that this is a very early build, please install in a test environment with no earlier versions of Visual Studio installed." I had a brief moment of panic thinking that this version wouldn't co-exist with others after reading your post. :)
  - squeaky-clean 12y ago
    From the actual download link >"Installing a CTP release will place a computer in an unsupported state. For that reason, we recommend only installing CTP releases in a virtual machine, or on a computer that is available for reformatting. >Currently, Visual Studio "14" CTPs have known compatibility issues with previous releases of Visual Studio and should not be installed side-by-side on the same computer." I don't know how serious that statement is, or maybe it's just a big blanket clause. But it seems like they really, really think you shouldn't install them together.
    - codeulike 12y ago
      I think they always say that for the Betas.
  - recentdarkness 12y ago
    As a matter of fact, i actually got blocked by the web installer. It denied installing it sire by side
  - greatdox 12y ago
    It modifies system files like the Kernel and other stuff. Files that cannot be updated after the beta expires. http://www.virtualbox.com/ http://www.virtualbox.com/ That's what I use, you can find the Windows 8.1 Ent Evaluation here http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/hh699156.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/hh699156.aspx I think they give you a key by registering for 90 or 180 days to evaluate it and try it out for free. Make a virtual machine in Vitualbox. I choose Virtualbox because it has a GNU/Linux and OSX version, unlike VirtualPC so you can run virtual machines on GNU/Linux and OSX systems. Some people like VMWare, others QEMU, and some use what Microsoft has. But Microsoft has these evaluation ISOs for free for a limited time so if one runs out, just reformat and reinstall it in a virtual machine to test it out.
Permit 12y ago
Visual Studio's naming scheme is pretty strange. They'll release this version in 2015 and the Visual Studio DLLs were previously on version 12. So it'd have made sense to name it Visual Studio 2015 or Visual Studio 13, but they opted for 14.
- CurtHagenlocher 12y ago
  The number 13 seems to get skipped for superstitious reasons.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - TwoBit 12y ago
    If a software engineering company has superstitions then I wonder about their engineering capabilities.
    - KNoureen 12y ago
      Probably a management decision, not an engineer one.
    - abcd_f 12y ago
      Yeah. And don't get me started on all those construction and elevator companies that skip 4th and 13th floors. Brrr.
- daigoba66 12y ago
  See here: https://twitter.com/jongalloway/status/473912144761602048 https://twitter.com/jongalloway/status/473912144761602048
  - jongalloway2 12y ago
    That's what I've been told. I am often wrong and / or misinformed.
  - 12y ago
tbrownaw 12y ago
From the one screenshot that shows window decorations, it looks like they're keeping those broken where they don't match the rest of your windows and don't change color to indicate active vs inactive? I have multiple monitors and tend to have several programs open. I like knowing where my input focus is.
- huhtenberg 12y ago
  Chrome of active and inactive VS windows looks different in all VS versions. In 2013 the difference is just in the caption color, but it is there.
  - tbrownaw 12y ago
    This is not the case for the one I have installed here at work, which is Professional 2012.
    - VoiceOfWisdom 12y ago
      I have both 2012 and 2013 on my machine, 2013 changes caption color, could not see anything on 2012 change.
kev009 12y ago
Pretty absurd still no C99 and C11. Luckily Windows continues to slip in relevance.
- jbk 12y ago
  Sorry, but what is missing from C99 in MSVC? VS2013 introduced a lot of C99 (enough to compile FFmpeg), VS2013 update 2 introduced more C99 (compiling almost x264 and a bit further VLC). This update adds some of the biggest issues, related to printf and scanf formats, and fixes more C99 reported bugs. From the VC++ blog: "Most of the remaining C99 library features are implemented." I love to hate Microsoft like the next guy, but they've done a lot on C99 lately.
  - comex 12y ago
    Probably variable length arrays and flexible array members, at least. Could be wrong.
    - jbk 12y ago
      VLA will not be in VS, since it is now optional in C11. Flexible array member, I haven't checked yet.
  - Marat_Dukhan 12y ago
    Hexadecimal floating-point literals
    - jbk 12y ago
      In what context?
      - Marat_Dukhan 12y ago
        In the same context as "normal" decimal floating-point literals, e.g. double x = 0x1.ABCDEFp+89;
  - 12y ago
RichardFord 12y ago
What would get me excited if with Roslyn they could give us edit-n-continue everywhere. Even introduce an interpreter or throw exceptions if things were malformed. That would save me some time.
malkia 12y ago
Can't wait for the new runtime dlls
- puppetmaster3 12y ago
  lol
adamconroy 12y ago
I am annoyed by this. Vs 2013 is riddled with bugs but they are busy doing the next version?
- adamconroy 12y ago
  Despite the down votes I stand by what I said. I would be far more impressed with a stable version of vs 2013 than a preview of 2014. There are too many glitches to document here, but I am using it every day and constantly finding bugs, some of which I have reported via Connect, some I can't be bothered with.
  - frozenport 12y ago
    I tried to up-vote, but I think the folks from MS are getting home. I got the same problem, and it killed my migration plans and inheriting constructors.
    - adamconroy 12y ago
      Thank you. And don't get me started on vs2013 update 2. I wasted a day putting up with it but eventually had to uninstall out of frustration. After that experience I can't see myself ever installing update 2 unless there is a showstopper bug in update 1.
      - cpayne 12y ago
        What's your dev environment? If I've ever had a problem with Visual Studio it always is some type of add-on. I've been using it for years and have never had a problem.
  - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
    You deserve the down votes because all you've added is emotion with zero content. Why haven't you mentioned a single specific bug? If there are too many, tell us about the ones that you think are show-stoppers.
giulianob 12y ago
The Roslyn stuff is going to be really awesome. It will be interesting to see what types of refactoring and code analysis tools the community creates.
- platz 12y ago
  Kind of wish F# was in scope for the Roslyn project
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    F# is already a bootstraped compiler, which was the main driver behind Roslyn.
    - CmonDev 12y ago
      Yet still no automated refactoring. F# team likes to develop the language and the compiler but they have no interest in practical tools.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        I guess it is a matter of resources and internal priorities. They do however work in some tooling support http://fsprojects.github.io/VisualFSharpPowerTools/ http://fsprojects.github.io/VisualFSharpPowerTools/
bloodmoney 12y ago
"Visual Studio "14" also supports APIs that come from NuGet with their own analyzers, squiggling issues in your code as you type and offering you automatic fixes, all powered by the .NET Compiler Platform." So, now there's new stuff that will keep me from typing into the IDE without hanging up and causing delays.
- EpicEng 12y ago
  Ummm... So don't download them?
- jongalloway2 12y ago
  The new anaylzers use async, so it's happening in the background as you work. For example, symbol analyzers take an action delegate with a cancellation token: http://source.roslyn.codeplex.com/#Microsoft.CodeAnalysis/DiagnosticAnalyzer/ISymbolAnalyzer.cs#8a4c8fc0813cd443 http://source.roslyn.codeplex.com/#Microsoft.CodeAnalysis/Di...
frozenport 12y ago
I can't use VS 2013 because the GUI crashes frequently. For example, tasks like creating a new project through the wizard crash. I would like MS to fix these issues before moving on items like C++14 support.
- stinos 12y ago
  Personally haven't had any of such problems actually on none of my machines and I can't wait until they get certain C++14 features in (generic lambdas! user-defined literals!) as they will make my life as a C++ programmer not only easier but also more fun. Seriously, working with variadic templates etc makes me feel like some wizard in control of Mordor. Bring it on!
joshschreuder 12y ago
Looks interesting. I'm hoping they move CodeLens from being a VS Ultimate only feature to the lower editions (Premium maybe?) in '14' as it looks really powerful but the pricing on Ultimate is pretty far outside of most developers' reasonable expense range. Seems there is significant demand on this but the UserVoice ticket was closed in April this year. https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/4150271-make-codelens-available-outside-of-ultimate https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-stud...
- cpayne 12y ago
  Have you seen the Bizspark program?[1] I never really understand the argument against Microsoft software being out of the range of reasonable expenses. Certainly for all the corporates I have worked at, Ultimate is well within their budget. But Ultimate really comes with all the bells and whistles. If money really is an issue, and you find you must "Collect and analyse runtime diagnostic data from production systems" or "Reliably capture and reproduce bugs found during manual and exploratory testing to eliminate "no repro" bugs" then there are better tools out there. I've worked for a long time with Premium[2] and never felt like I was missing features... [1] http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/faqs.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/faqs.aspx [2] http://www.microway.com.au/microsoft/visual-studio-2013-compare-editions.php http://www.microway.com.au/microsoft/visual-studio-2013-comp...
  - joshschreuder 12y ago
    I think it's more that CodeLens appears to be far less of a niche feature than the others exclusive to Ultimate, which has people up in arms a bit because it looks universally useful to all developers (but not useful enough on its own to justify the extra $10K or so if you're not using other Ultimate features). We have MSDN access here, but that only offers Premium, not Ultimate. So yeah, I run Premium day-to-day also, but I definitely feel like I would benefit from CodeLens in my dev workflow (especially with the upcoming Git integration in VS2013 Update 3).
    - cpayne 12y ago
jasonkester 12y ago
At this point I really have no idea how much of the awesomeness I see in Visual Studio is coming from ReSharper and how much is actually Visual Studio itself. In the past, it was nearly 100% R#. Now it seems more like 50/50. The only way I ever find out is through blog posts like this where they announce "new" features that I'd already been using for six years such as the "introduce variable" and "extract method" refractors mentioned here. Evidently that was ReSharper. Makes me think I should go read up on what's new in R#. I bet there's a bunch more cool stuff that I'd never learn about until VS.NET 2020 if left to my own devices.
- CmonDev 12y ago
  My recent R# discovery is that JetBrains.Annotations is like a lightweight version of Microsoft Code Contracts.
- vonzeppelin 12y ago
  Extract Method dates back to at least VS 2010 however introduce variable is new.
  - mattmanser 12y ago
    Looks like VS 2005 had it: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yez2fsct(v=vs.80).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yez2fsct(v=vs.80).as...
yread 12y ago
According to http://blogs.msdn.com/b/csharpfaq/archive/2014/06/03/visual-studio-14-ctp-now-available.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/csharpfaq/archive/2014/06/03/visual-... it's also gonna have ?. operator! Woohoo
- acron0 12y ago
  I'm on the fence about this. From the example, `myObject?.Items?.[0]?.DoSomething()`. If myObject, Items or Items[0] returns null, what do I do next? Null check to find out which one?
  - jrajav 12y ago
    It's often the case that if something along the way is null, breaking the reference chain, it's acceptable to treat it as if that last value were null. E.g., looking up a preference that enables some optional behavior on a module, but the module itself is also optional and might not be loaded. I really can't even count the number of times that I've done a series of null checks on a reference chain just to do one thing if I reached the final value and another thing if I never got there or got null - It's pretty rare that I'll care about an intermediate null, and if I do I've usually checked it earlier.
  - darylteo 12y ago
    If you need to know which one returns null, then do it the standard way.

140 points by Permit 12y ago

Seems to mostly be a packaging of features we already knew about, but it's nice to see them trying to keep with the faster release cycle.

jongalloway2 12y ago
The release schedule's been that way since ~2012: http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/release-archive-vso.aspx http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/release-archive-vso.a... Both as a user and a Microsoft employee, I'm happy to have minimal secrets and surprises when it comes to dev features. Early info and access usually means better software.

rayiner 12y ago

Any hope of a Win8/Metro version?

archon 12y ago
Why would you want a Metro version? (I'm really curious, not just hating on Metro.)
- rayiner 12y ago
  I like metro better, with its full-screen/tiled modality, and find it really frustrating as well as unaesthetic to have to switch back and forth to the desktop. If Microsoft's own apps won't make the switch, it seems like they'll never manage to get rid of the desktop.
  - infogulch 12y ago
    I think the complexity of software development warrants a pass on the switch to Metro. There are so many things going on that can't be simplified that it's not worth it. Also, Microsoft doesn't want to kill the desktop. Enterprise uses the desktop, so it's staying for the foreseeable future. Full stop.
    - rayiner 12y ago
      Is there any reason applications with complex functionality can't be written in Metro? And if Microsoft isn't trying to kill the desktop, why does it exist as a separate world in Windows 8 severed from the main Metro UI?
      - infogulch 12y ago
        Metro exists separate from desktop because they couldn't figure out how to make the desktop work on a touch-centric interface like tablets and phones, and because desktop apps are bound to x86, which precludes many phones and tablets because of battery life reasons.
        rayiner 12y ago
        But why have the schism on desktop devices? I don't want to run Visual Studio on my phone. But if I get say a Surface Pro device, I'd like to not have to switch back and forth between two totally different worlds all the time, without giving up modern amenities like resolution independence, etc.
        greatdox 12y ago
        That is why people want to stick with XP/7 instead of 8.X because they don't like the Modern GUI (It was called Metro until Microsoft was sued over the name) and feel like it is a giant step backward to the 1992 MS-DOS days of AOL for DOS or the old Prodigy of everything in small Windows that you cannot even re-size or have any 'visual clues' how they work like the Desktop and Start Menu of the Classic Windows has. For example 'visual clues' in the Classic Windows have minimize and maximize buttons and the "X" button means close. These Modern GUI Windows, where are the 'visual clues'? It breaks the way Windows is supposed to work. You have to drag the mouse to the bottom or top right side of the screen to access the 'Charms Bar' to do stuff in it, and Windows-C as a shortcut. I tried the touchscreen and it is a nightmare trying to make the correct type of swipe. Sometimes it does things you don't want it to do. Plus a lot of desktop apps cannot be converted to Modern GUI mode because it lacks the gadgets the desktop has to make things easier to use. The Visual Studio IDE for example has so many tool icons and toolbars that not all of it will fit in a Modern GUI screen. It would need a major rewrite of the GUI, and force all developers to relearn all of their Visual Studio skills. Remember when Office 2007 made that Ribbon bar? It was worse than Clippy the Office Assistant type of annoying. Many compared Modern GUI to New Coke, the Classic Version was always better. If not for Desktop mode I could not use my Windows 8.1 Pro device.
  - daigoba66 12y ago
    I agree; they'll never get rid of the desktop. Certain classes of software, such as those based around an MDI, will never have a home in the hyper-focused and single task-oriented world of Metro (and iOS for that matter).
    - rayiner 12y ago
      Why does Visual Studio need MDI? XCode and Lighttable and Sublimetext get by just fine with panes, tabs, and dividers. I could totally see say Lighttable being a Metro app.
      - roryokane 12y ago
        Of Xcode, LightTable, and Sublime Text, all three of them support opening code in new windows in addition to in panes, tabs, and dividers. So their popularity is not evidence of MDIs being unnecessary. Whether their MDIs are necessary depends on how many people use multiple windows in those apps, and would dislike using other views if multiple windows were not an option.
        schrodinger 12y ago
        Visual studio does definitely allow that, although I honestly don't use it very often.
      - barrkel 12y ago
        Apps with tabs are MDI - VS uses tabs for MDI. Speaking personally, due to the massive size of modern screens, the only application I run full-screen any more is my video player. Metro is a non-starter for working with multiple overlapping windows. I normally develop with at least 6 windows in frequent use - two browsers (one for doc / misc and one for app) and 4 terminals (two for simultaneous login to front and back nodes, one running the app along with mysql sessions, and one running emacs). The idea of using a single full-screen dev environment, or perhaps with one other window docked to the side, seems ridiculously inefficient. I need to see those other windows. I'm frequently tailing logs, running tests in the background, provisioning VMs, all little things that need to be visible so I can see when something goes wrong and I need to take action.
  - QuadDamaged 12y ago
    alt-shift-enter, go fullscreen, ditch the windows chrome. I don't understand how you would want a Metro UI for vs.net - such a waste of screen real-estate!
edgyswingset 12y ago
Very doubtful. They don't seem to be pushing productivity apps away from the desktop interface.
codeulike 12y ago
That would be unlikely, as discussed in other comments. But see Project Siena for a Microsoft app-building app that is Metro http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/projectsiena/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/projectsiena/default.aspx
- mekael 12y ago
  Off topic: Have you used this at all? If so what's your take on it? I've heard about it and that's pretty much it, but got the gist that it's more of a "toy" development environment than anything else. --No offense meant by "toy"--
  - codeulike 12y ago
    No, havent tried it, just seen it in the store.
    - codeulike 12y ago
      From the blurb "Building a Siena app is as easy as editing a PowerPoint presentation or Excel spreadsheet. You place some visuals on a canvas. You hook them up to your data or favorite services. You customize how your app looks and works. Then, if you need special logic and intelligence, you write some Excel-like expressions. You can use your app immediately, or share it with colleagues or the world." So aimed at non-programmers but with some modern stuff like the ability to talk to restful services.
yread 12y ago
You can just hide all the menus and buttons and put the editor full screen. That's pretty close to metro I think

TillE 12y ago

Has Microsoft stated whether they intend to keep the WinXP-compatible toolchain around? I imagine they won't now that XP is officially discontinued. Then again, Windows Server 2003 is still hanging around until next year, so maybe they won't ditch that compiler just yet.

taspeotis 12y ago
(Speculation, I haven't actually installed VS14 and side-by-side is not supported so I couldn't test this anyway.) It's probably gone but the toolset targeting is likely still around. So if you've VS2013 installed with the XP-compatible compiler and Windows SDK then you can just choose that toolset. Usual disclaimer applies: it's an old compiler, you won't get the new language features etc.
greatdox 12y ago
I think so because Windows XP POS has support until 2019 and businesses still need to develop POS apps for their embedded POS systems. Even if the consumer XP has dropped support the POS version of XP has not yet. Too many ATMs and POS systems that still run XP, give them until 2019 to switch to Windows 8 POS systems.
- yuhong 12y ago
  I don't think they are going to keep XP support for that reason alone though.
cokernel_hacker 12y ago
This version of Visual Studio still seems to have XP support.

recentdarkness 12y ago

What a pity that you cannot install it side by side with other version of Visual Studio. Well that means I will have to setup a VM for it :D

Amezarak 12y ago
I don't think it's that you can't install it side by side, they simply don't recommend it while this is in beta just in case. "Given that this is a very early build, please install in a test environment with no earlier versions of Visual Studio installed." I had a brief moment of panic thinking that this version wouldn't co-exist with others after reading your post. :)
- squeaky-clean 12y ago
  From the actual download link >"Installing a CTP release will place a computer in an unsupported state. For that reason, we recommend only installing CTP releases in a virtual machine, or on a computer that is available for reformatting. >Currently, Visual Studio "14" CTPs have known compatibility issues with previous releases of Visual Studio and should not be installed side-by-side on the same computer." I don't know how serious that statement is, or maybe it's just a big blanket clause. But it seems like they really, really think you shouldn't install them together.
  - codeulike 12y ago
    I think they always say that for the Betas.
- recentdarkness 12y ago
  As a matter of fact, i actually got blocked by the web installer. It denied installing it sire by side
- greatdox 12y ago
  It modifies system files like the Kernel and other stuff. Files that cannot be updated after the beta expires. http://www.virtualbox.com/ http://www.virtualbox.com/ That's what I use, you can find the Windows 8.1 Ent Evaluation here http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/hh699156.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/hh699156.aspx I think they give you a key by registering for 90 or 180 days to evaluate it and try it out for free. Make a virtual machine in Vitualbox. I choose Virtualbox because it has a GNU/Linux and OSX version, unlike VirtualPC so you can run virtual machines on GNU/Linux and OSX systems. Some people like VMWare, others QEMU, and some use what Microsoft has. But Microsoft has these evaluation ISOs for free for a limited time so if one runs out, just reformat and reinstall it in a virtual machine to test it out.

Permit 12y ago

Visual Studio's naming scheme is pretty strange. They'll release this version in 2015 and the Visual Studio DLLs were previously on version 12. So it'd have made sense to name it Visual Studio 2015 or Visual Studio 13, but they opted for 14.

CurtHagenlocher 12y ago
The number 13 seems to get skipped for superstitious reasons.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- TwoBit 12y ago
  If a software engineering company has superstitions then I wonder about their engineering capabilities.
  - KNoureen 12y ago
    Probably a management decision, not an engineer one.
  - abcd_f 12y ago
    Yeah. And don't get me started on all those construction and elevator companies that skip 4th and 13th floors. Brrr.
daigoba66 12y ago
See here: https://twitter.com/jongalloway/status/473912144761602048 https://twitter.com/jongalloway/status/473912144761602048
- jongalloway2 12y ago
  That's what I've been told. I am often wrong and / or misinformed.
- 12y ago

tbrownaw 12y ago

From the one screenshot that shows window decorations, it looks like they're keeping those broken where they don't match the rest of your windows and don't change color to indicate active vs inactive? I have multiple monitors and tend to have several programs open. I like knowing where my input focus is.

huhtenberg 12y ago
Chrome of active and inactive VS windows looks different in all VS versions. In 2013 the difference is just in the caption color, but it is there.
- tbrownaw 12y ago
  This is not the case for the one I have installed here at work, which is Professional 2012.
  - VoiceOfWisdom 12y ago
    I have both 2012 and 2013 on my machine, 2013 changes caption color, could not see anything on 2012 change.

kev009 12y ago

Pretty absurd still no C99 and C11. Luckily Windows continues to slip in relevance.

jbk 12y ago
Sorry, but what is missing from C99 in MSVC? VS2013 introduced a lot of C99 (enough to compile FFmpeg), VS2013 update 2 introduced more C99 (compiling almost x264 and a bit further VLC). This update adds some of the biggest issues, related to printf and scanf formats, and fixes more C99 reported bugs. From the VC++ blog: "Most of the remaining C99 library features are implemented." I love to hate Microsoft like the next guy, but they've done a lot on C99 lately.
- comex 12y ago
  Probably variable length arrays and flexible array members, at least. Could be wrong.
  - jbk 12y ago
    VLA will not be in VS, since it is now optional in C11. Flexible array member, I haven't checked yet.
- Marat_Dukhan 12y ago
  Hexadecimal floating-point literals
  - jbk 12y ago
    In what context?
    - Marat_Dukhan 12y ago
      In the same context as "normal" decimal floating-point literals, e.g. double x = 0x1.ABCDEFp+89;
- 12y ago

RichardFord 12y ago

What would get me excited if with Roslyn they could give us edit-n-continue everywhere. Even introduce an interpreter or throw exceptions if things were malformed. That would save me some time.

malkia 12y ago

Can't wait for the new runtime dlls

puppetmaster3 12y ago
lol

adamconroy 12y ago

I am annoyed by this. Vs 2013 is riddled with bugs but they are busy doing the next version?

adamconroy 12y ago
Despite the down votes I stand by what I said. I would be far more impressed with a stable version of vs 2013 than a preview of 2014. There are too many glitches to document here, but I am using it every day and constantly finding bugs, some of which I have reported via Connect, some I can't be bothered with.
- frozenport 12y ago
  I tried to up-vote, but I think the folks from MS are getting home. I got the same problem, and it killed my migration plans and inheriting constructors.
  - adamconroy 12y ago
    Thank you. And don't get me started on vs2013 update 2. I wasted a day putting up with it but eventually had to uninstall out of frustration. After that experience I can't see myself ever installing update 2 unless there is a showstopper bug in update 1.
    - cpayne 12y ago
      What's your dev environment? If I've ever had a problem with Visual Studio it always is some type of add-on. I've been using it for years and have never had a problem.
- WorldWideWayne 12y ago
  You deserve the down votes because all you've added is emotion with zero content. Why haven't you mentioned a single specific bug? If there are too many, tell us about the ones that you think are show-stoppers.

giulianob 12y ago

The Roslyn stuff is going to be really awesome. It will be interesting to see what types of refactoring and code analysis tools the community creates.

platz 12y ago
Kind of wish F# was in scope for the Roslyn project
- pjmlp 12y ago
  F# is already a bootstraped compiler, which was the main driver behind Roslyn.
  - CmonDev 12y ago
    Yet still no automated refactoring. F# team likes to develop the language and the compiler but they have no interest in practical tools.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      I guess it is a matter of resources and internal priorities. They do however work in some tooling support http://fsprojects.github.io/VisualFSharpPowerTools/ http://fsprojects.github.io/VisualFSharpPowerTools/

bloodmoney 12y ago

"Visual Studio "14" also supports APIs that come from NuGet with their own analyzers, squiggling issues in your code as you type and offering you automatic fixes, all powered by the .NET Compiler Platform." So, now there's new stuff that will keep me from typing into the IDE without hanging up and causing delays.

EpicEng 12y ago
Ummm... So don't download them?
jongalloway2 12y ago
The new anaylzers use async, so it's happening in the background as you work. For example, symbol analyzers take an action delegate with a cancellation token: http://source.roslyn.codeplex.com/#Microsoft.CodeAnalysis/DiagnosticAnalyzer/ISymbolAnalyzer.cs#8a4c8fc0813cd443 http://source.roslyn.codeplex.com/#Microsoft.CodeAnalysis/Di...

frozenport 12y ago

I can't use VS 2013 because the GUI crashes frequently. For example, tasks like creating a new project through the wizard crash. I would like MS to fix these issues before moving on items like C++14 support.

stinos 12y ago
Personally haven't had any of such problems actually on none of my machines and I can't wait until they get certain C++14 features in (generic lambdas! user-defined literals!) as they will make my life as a C++ programmer not only easier but also more fun. Seriously, working with variadic templates etc makes me feel like some wizard in control of Mordor. Bring it on!

joshschreuder 12y ago

Looks interesting. I'm hoping they move CodeLens from being a VS Ultimate only feature to the lower editions (Premium maybe?) in '14' as it looks really powerful but the pricing on Ultimate is pretty far outside of most developers' reasonable expense range. Seems there is significant demand on this but the UserVoice ticket was closed in April this year. https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/4150271-make-codelens-available-outside-of-ultimate https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-stud...

cpayne 12y ago
Have you seen the Bizspark program?[1] I never really understand the argument against Microsoft software being out of the range of reasonable expenses. Certainly for all the corporates I have worked at, Ultimate is well within their budget. But Ultimate really comes with all the bells and whistles. If money really is an issue, and you find you must "Collect and analyse runtime diagnostic data from production systems" or "Reliably capture and reproduce bugs found during manual and exploratory testing to eliminate "no repro" bugs" then there are better tools out there. I've worked for a long time with Premium[2] and never felt like I was missing features... [1] http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/faqs.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/faqs.aspx [2] http://www.microway.com.au/microsoft/visual-studio-2013-compare-editions.php http://www.microway.com.au/microsoft/visual-studio-2013-comp...
- joshschreuder 12y ago
  I think it's more that CodeLens appears to be far less of a niche feature than the others exclusive to Ultimate, which has people up in arms a bit because it looks universally useful to all developers (but not useful enough on its own to justify the extra $10K or so if you're not using other Ultimate features). We have MSDN access here, but that only offers Premium, not Ultimate. So yeah, I run Premium day-to-day also, but I definitely feel like I would benefit from CodeLens in my dev workflow (especially with the upcoming Git integration in VS2013 Update 3).
  - cpayne 12y ago

jasonkester 12y ago

At this point I really have no idea how much of the awesomeness I see in Visual Studio is coming from ReSharper and how much is actually Visual Studio itself. In the past, it was nearly 100% R#. Now it seems more like 50/50. The only way I ever find out is through blog posts like this where they announce "new" features that I'd already been using for six years such as the "introduce variable" and "extract method" refractors mentioned here. Evidently that was ReSharper. Makes me think I should go read up on what's new in R#. I bet there's a bunch more cool stuff that I'd never learn about until VS.NET 2020 if left to my own devices.

CmonDev 12y ago
My recent R# discovery is that JetBrains.Annotations is like a lightweight version of Microsoft Code Contracts.
vonzeppelin 12y ago
Extract Method dates back to at least VS 2010 however introduce variable is new.
- mattmanser 12y ago
  Looks like VS 2005 had it: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yez2fsct(v=vs.80).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yez2fsct(v=vs.80).as...

yread 12y ago

According to http://blogs.msdn.com/b/csharpfaq/archive/2014/06/03/visual-studio-14-ctp-now-available.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/csharpfaq/archive/2014/06/03/visual-... it's also gonna have ?. operator! Woohoo

acron0 12y ago
I'm on the fence about this. From the example, `myObject?.Items?.[0]?.DoSomething()`. If myObject, Items or Items[0] returns null, what do I do next? Null check to find out which one?
- jrajav 12y ago
  It's often the case that if something along the way is null, breaking the reference chain, it's acceptable to treat it as if that last value were null. E.g., looking up a preference that enables some optional behavior on a module, but the module itself is also optional and might not be loaded. I really can't even count the number of times that I've done a series of null checks on a reference chain just to do one thing if I reached the final value and another thing if I never got there or got null - It's pretty rare that I'll care about an intermediate null, and if I do I've usually checked it earlier.
- darylteo 12y ago
  If you need to know which one returns null, then do it the standard way.