11 ms·

How Japan Copied American Culture and Made it Better

144 points by eplanit 13y ago

11thEarlOfMar 13y ago
There are plenty of other examples from America, including vintage Ford Mustangs, Winnebagos, Converse tennis shoes and Baseball. I spent a couple of years expatriated to Japan and learned that for a Japanese person to admit they had a hobby or interest actually meant they were expert with it. You wouldn't admit you 'enjoyed playing violin' in your spare time unless you were a maestro. If you were not an expert, you would not talk about your interests. If a Japanese colleague mentioned they had 1966 Mustang, you could be certain it was perfect. For many Japanese colleagues, if I spent enough time drinking with them, I'd find a surprisingly intense sense of pride and mastery in an obscure area of interest. You'd never know about it unless you spent time enough to get past their modesty so they'd talk about it. I'd venture that this is the source of the author's observation about not just copying, but improving. There were also some pretty twisted counter-examples of not getting Americana quite right. I ran across an outer wear store named 'Violence Jack Off', display windows crowded with black leather jackets.[Edit]
- tomphoolery 13y ago
  > I ran across an outer wear store named 'Violence Jack Off', display windows crowded with black leather jackets. Remind me to name my next punk band "Violence Jackoffs".
- ANTSANTS 13y ago
  Possibly a play on "Violence Jack"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Jack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Jack
- iterationx 13y ago
  I was amused when I ran across the "American Superiority Warehouse"
Second_son 13y ago
The Japanese culture and way of life were systematically gutted during and after WWII, after which they slowly came to adopt American norms. Defeated people have imitated the victors time and again throughout history. This has little to do with how amazing the other culture is. I find little to celebrate in the Americanization of yet another unique & rich culture.
- deleted 13y ago
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- oafitupa 13y ago
  > Defeated people have imitated the victors time and again throughout history. This has little to do with how amazing the other culture is. Or it has little to do with being "defeated". Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.
- astrange 13y ago
  Japanese culture, though very "western", is not very American. Many essential American cultural elements such as religion, guns, cars, libertarians, feminism, and no sex on TV are missing, and it is certainly not as individualist. It's not a great place to be a programmer, though - people I know working at pixiv (a modern foreigner-friendly web startup) aren't paid even entry-level US salaries. But with pixiv you can see one of the good sides of Japan. It's basically DeviantArt, but amateur artists on pixiv have often practiced for years and their art is technically good, whereas DeviantArt posters are all more than satisfied with their weird fetish art they drew in MS Paint. You could try Korea, which is a lot more like America. Specifically, Texas.
  - nemasu 13y ago
    I'm a programmer in Japan. And there are so many dev jobs here it's ridiculous... IF you can speak Japanese.
thomasjay 13y ago
The most American game is made in Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8
null_ptr 13y ago
> Dylan is, in fact, the bar’s reason for being: Japanese fans come here to watch his concert videos, listen to his tapes and relive the ’60s in America, a time and place almost none of them witnessed firsthand. Are there any places in America where one may do this today?
- adventured 13y ago
  I've found that a lot of (all?) major cities in America have throw-back diners and similarly themed restaurants (I don't know any specific to Dylan mind you).
  - aswanson 13y ago
    There should be. Dylan is awesome.
l0stb0y 13y ago
One thing that it's difficult for foreigners to acknowledge is that Japan is so completely different to the western world that it's almost impossible to comprehend. Articles like this, and the musings of western visitors/workers, read more to me as people misinterpreting their surroundings and misunderstanding Japanese culture. I'm convinced that a lot of Japanese have difficulty understanding the current state of their own culture too. The best way I can describe it is that western culture (capitalism/consumerism/democracy) does not mix well with traditional Japanese culture and has resulted in a bizarre chaos. My first-hand experience has shown me that a lot of Japanese prefer the traditional culture to what they currently have and I do not blame them one bit.
- deleted 13y ago
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- greggman 13y ago
  What makes you say that it's impossible to comprehend? I've been here on and off ~8 of the last 16 years. Several non Japanese friends that have been here 10, 15, 20, 25 years. I don't get the impression any of them have a hard time comprehending any of it. As for some Japanese (not all by a long shot) preferring traditional, first off, those are not all or even most. Many of those that do are similar to people in the west that prefer "organic" or "natural" or "traditional" for arguably no rational reason. I don't personally know any Japanese that want to go back to any kind of "traditional culture". Heck, I'm writing this from "The Terminal", a shared workspace in Harajuku surrounded by Japanese on notebooks. Hardly "traditional" in any sense.
  - celebril 13y ago
    I see you're still perceiving Japanese culture through your native Western lenses. Well done on wasting those 16 years understanding nothing but the superficial.
Tiktaalik 13y ago
The fashion industry owes an enormous debt to Japan for preserving American heritage after America threw it away.
- adventured 13y ago
  This is hardly accurate. Cultures regularly "throw away" and then later rediscover (re-popularize) pieces of their own historical culture / identity. It has nothing to do with it being preserved by another culture (such that if it weren't, it could have never existed again).
  - gregholmberg 13y ago
    Yes. Western civilization became estranged from scientific inquiry itself for many long centuries. If not for the patient and curious scribes of medieval Islam, many significant works from Ancient Greece and Rome would have been lost forever.
  - Tiktaalik 13y ago
    That's true, the rediscovery of American heritage clothing may have happened anyway, but I have to imagine the boom in American workwear/sportswear has been made dramatically easier for modern designers thanks to the Japanese otaku that have studiously collected, documented it (Free & Easy, Lightning Magazines) and continued to produce it (Buzz Ricksons, Real McCoy). Due to this, a route to revitalizing an American heritage brand is to simply hire a great Japanese designer. If no one had cared I do think it would have been a much more difficult process and I do think it would have been likely that some knowledge could have been lost.
seanhandley 13y ago
American culture? There's more culture in yoghurt.
- bluthru 13y ago
  You're quite uncultured if you think America doesn't offer the world a cultural richness. Or maybe you're just resentful that we dropped extraneous h's.
- timmyelliot 13y ago
  Besides being incredibly cheesy, that joke has been run a zillion times about every country in the world.
- smprk 13y ago
  The only other country I have been to outside of my own country, is America. And I must say I loved the people and the culture there. If you look at all the small differences between way of life in America and different parts of the world, you will start appreciating all cultures for what niceties they offer. Do try it :-)
- dodyg 13y ago
  I am not an American but I have some idea. Let me list them: - Pride of national armed forces - America flags outside houses - Tailgating - Extensive participation in volunteering - Jazz/Blues/Hip Hop/Country - Stand up comedy - Improv comedy - Fortune Cookies - Deep Dish Pizza - Sports Watching Craze - Little holiday - Guns, Guns, Guns - 1st Amendment - Religious - College sports - Road Trip! - Weekend sports - Hipsters - Shitty Cable News - High quality ethnic food/fusion - NASCAR - Dive bars - Addiction to pharmaceuticals - Friendly, easy smiles - Cars, Cars, Cars - Kids Lemonade Stands - Walmart - Fields of corns - Scumbag food corporations - Keg Stand - Fake ID edit: formatting
spikels 13y ago
Almost everything is better in Japan! - Taxi doors open themselves (and the drivers wear white gloves) - Subway maps light up to indicate where you are - You can hold your table at a cafe by leaving your phone or keys or wallet & nobody will steal it - Take out coffee often has a piece of tape so it won't spill - People are friendly & cheerful when you met them (although they are much the same when you get to know them) - Goods are packaged beautifully (if perhaps excessively) - Sexuality is much more specialized (if sometimes bizarre) - French pastries are better than in France - Even ice cubes are better - I could go on and on... While Japan has many flaws almost any "thing" you can point to, if not always better, is usually better. What is perhaps more interesting is the things that are worse.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > - French pastries are better than in France Is this a joke or something ? I live in Japan, I'm French, and there's no way the pastries you buy over here are as good (or even as cheap) as in France. Or you must have been to the wrong part of France.
  - timr 13y ago
    They're not as good as Paris, but they're getting better. The first time I went to Japan, I had a number of experiences buying a perfect-looking french pastry, only to find that the inside was cakey, or filled with hot dog, or some other weird thing. It was like the form of the thing had been perfectly copied, but not the substance. Went back again a couple of years ago, and the average pastry was much closer to what I'd buy at a decent shop in France. I figure they've got another few years before they're competing with the MOF winners. ;-)
    - ekianjo 13y ago
      You can never get pastries as good as in France for a simple reason: humidity. It influences the cooking process in such a way you can never get the same texture, and your pastry will become soft within hours of cooking because it soaks ambient humidity. Pastries in Japan are still quite good, but they can never hope to compare with French ones - they developed their own style and adapted it to Japanese tastes as well, so you can't even expect to get something that has the same taste either, even if it looks alike. And for certain items, you just can't find anything that even matches the supermarket form of it in France : take Pains au chocolat, most of them scream of utter failure in Japan when you bite into them. And I've tried numerous ones, even in expensive bakeries, and was always disappointed. And let's not forget pastries in Japan are way more expensive than in France. That counts, too.
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WhoIsSatoshi 13y ago
I feel the Japanese struggle within their overcrowded society and that "specialization" is a way that one can have his own corner of freedom. If you go over there, you will notice that people work extraneously long hours, get paid little, and are constantly playing an intricate interaction model where seniority, class, sex, origins all play major roles. This is why so many went into video games, anime or manga. They need an escape. And just as you find that drive within their work, which is at the most strict expectation level, you can find traces of it in their hobbies.
- deleted 13y ago
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- tluyben2 13y ago
  Is Japan overcrowded? Because I don't think it is. Yes their cities are (I fail to understand the drive to live in a city, I see mostly disadvantages) but they have a large amount of unpopulated areas which, if people spread out, would not be considered overcrowded? Unlike the Netherlands where I'm from for instance, which is basically a big city.
  - skrebbel 13y ago
    And Drenthe.
    - tluyben2 13y ago
      And Drenthe. Edit: I love HN, people care to downvote this joke on a sunday. Must be Drenthenaren who feel discriminated on. Sorry, it wasn't meant that way.
  - sampo 13y ago
    Ca. 65% of Japanese are concentrated on this area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiheiy%C5%8D_Belt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiheiy%C5%8D_Belt
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    Japan is bigger than Germany However, I believe there are a lot of mountainous terrain, and a lot of small islands as well, which is difficult to populate I believe the tendency of congregating into the same place ends up coming from the culture as well (to find "the best place")
Ryanmf 13y ago
W. David Marx has been doing wonderful analysis of Japan and this phenomenon of trend adoption/synthesis/evolution—specifically with regard to fashion but he's covered many other topics as well—at http://neojaponisme.com http://neojaponisme.com for years now. Don't lose your weekend to the archive. Or, you know, do.
- probel 13y ago
  But be aware he's considered something of a blowhard and not taken very seriously by the expat community in Tokyo.
  - Ryanmf 13y ago
    I'd like to hear more about this, any links you can recommend?
  - wdavidmarx 13y ago
    But also be aware probel always says the opposite of the truth and is a little too overly beloved by the expat community in Tokyo.
mailshanx 13y ago
I hope patio11 can comment on this. I've always enjoyed reading his take on Japan. He is extremely well qualified to compare American and Japanese culture: he was born and raised in the US, moved to Japan after graduating and got married there.
- romanovcode 13y ago
  No offense but your patio11 sounds like a textbook LBH case.
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
A remarkably American centric article, in which the author appears to see America as the origin of things instead of just a dot on a long line that has always been weaving back an forth between different cultures and countries. A casual remark betrays this blind American-centrism: "the new American hipster ideal of Brooklyn is clumsily copied everywhere from Paris to Bangkok". Seriously? Coming from Amsterdam I have a hard time seeing the American hipster culture as anything other than heavily copying Northern-European lifestyles in a way that strongly reminds me of how Japan so often imitates Western cultures. (Also the same pattern, stuff that is added or reshaped in America appears here again, which may confuse the author. But "clumsily copyied", are you f-ing kidding me?) Interesting article, but the lack of perspective bothers me.
- justincormack 13y ago
  Yes, the Japanese do not have a particular attachment to American culture. They also replicate Scotch whisky lovingly, for example. And there are kissa for all sorts of things.
- richliss 13y ago
  I agree... I visited Stockholm in the 90's and there were many many young people there that were defacto hipsters in they way they dressed, bought vinyl, used old film cameras like lomo's etc. etc. way before I saw the same in London or New York. I have this view that the individualist fashionistas all around the world are in realtime creating a movement like hipsterism without realising it, and for the most part people think they look like idiots, but every now and again the right person hits the right look at the right time and there's suddenly lots of people copying it, and validating the look creating a movement.
frozenport 13y ago
The focus on material things highlights the problem. They have copied everything, but failed to capture the spirit by not acting like their idols. I would like to see the Japanese people act, rebel, and change the world. All I see is escapism, ironically similar to the escapism Westerner's find in Japanese culture.
davidgerard 13y ago
WARNING: AUTOPLAY VIDEO. Flagged.
emanuer 13y ago
My wife is Japanese and through her I cam to a realization about this very topic. My hypothesis is: Japanese do not accept anything less than perfection. The accompanying motto seems: "If you cannot archive perfection, don’t even bother starting.“ To illustrate my point; My wife might ask me to purchase something for her. Whenever I could not get the specific product she asked for, I just bought something comparable. At home she would be disappointed to her core, to the point where she considered the possibility that my intentions where nefarious. Every time this happened I was shocked. Why would I try to bring her harm by not buying the exact same thing, but something comparable? Now I was convinced that her thought-process is rather unique. Yet, to my surprise, almost every Japanese person who I befriended on a deeper level behaved the same way. To me it seems for Japanese people there is an crucial "line of competency". An average Gaijin (non-Japanese) is seen as incompetent to act according to Japanese customs (rightfully so). Almost everything a Gaijin does, even if it is rather obnoxious, is not judged by Japanese, but accepted as: „Well..., different culture, different habits." When they allow you in their circle, befriend you, you are seen as to cross the „line of competency“ and your actions will be judged by higher standards. Now imagine you grew up in a society where everything you do is expected to be done perfectly. And a consequence of not doing something perfect is bringing shame to you and those around you (Japan is a shame based culture, so that is extremely bad). You will not consider starting a task unless you have a very high chance of archiving mastery. If you do a task, you are not perfect in, you better hide it. Another example: A friend of mine visited me in Japan and quite frequently asked people for directions. To his awe every single one of them went out of their way to help him. People walked for very long distances with him, making 100% certain that he will get to an ATM. In their mind, drawing on a map just did not suffice. They would walk with him all across Shinjuku station (the busiest station on the planet) making sure he will find the right train. To him these were just examples of nice people in Japan. I believe he, unknowingly, tasked these poor people with unreasonably big requests. When asking for the nearest ATM these Japanese did not consider the possibility of pointing in a direction, as this would have left too much room for error. Anything less than walking with him would have brought shame to them. Actually when you ask directions and they „just“ point (it happens) look at their faces. Often thy turn away from you in shame. Or their faces will freeze as if they just did something appalling. Imagine having a country of 129 million perfectionists. How would the society be run? Trains would always be perfectly on time. Food would always look as delicious as in the ads and taste like you hope it would. People would be very stressed committing to anything they have not done 100 times before. People would feel the constant pressure to live up to insane expectations and if they could not hold up to them, they would be anxious to leave their houses (otaku). — If you are not familiar with the Japanese culture, this is exactly like it is in Japan. A last point to support the article, I was in Rome and an Italien friend brought me to „the best pizzeria in Italy“. I must say, it was a truly delicious pizza. 3 Days later I was in Osaka and went with a Japanese friend to a „very good “ pizza place. Every single slice of pizza I ate there was pure perfection. It blew the „best pizzeria in Italy“ out of the water. The pizzeria in the Namba Parks is run by Japanese who studied in Italy.
joshuak 13y ago
From my years with my Japanese wife, and the time I've spend in Japan. I've learned that the key difference of Japanese culture from American culture is is that americans consider quantity as the measure of value, and Japanese consider quality to be that measure. Japanese people will pay more for the higher quality of equivalent goods, and are interested to learn the difference. While americans feel cheated if they pay more for a great meal served in small portions, and consider stores like costco and k-mart to be some of the best shopping choices. I can assure you if you think Japanese people are missing the point by copying others you are very much mistaken. They are not making a copy, they are embracing the point.
- adventured 13y ago
  I think this is far too blanket of a statement given the radical diversity of America in most every respect. Many Americans certainly will go for the 50% cheaper, 85% as good product. And yet America is the largest market for the iPhone, and it does particularly well here. In the not so distant past, superior Sony products - amongst people I know - used to be heavily desired for their quality. I don't think very many people consider K-Mart to be among the best shopping choices, quite the opposite in fact; ditto Wal-Mart. Being economical doesn't mean they consider it ideal shopping.
  - joshuak 13y ago
    It's very difficult to grok without seeing it at many levels for many years. And your counter point is a good example of why. It's easy to point to Americans who have plenty of money and so shop at finer stores. Nevertheless, at every level the difference between cultures is quality vs quantity. Regardless if you and I shop at K-Mart you can not deny the market share those types of stores hold in the US. Most people who don't go to them associate them with being poor, or unfashionable products. Not because we truly evaluate, or even know how to evaluate the quality of the products they sell. This is why rich Americans are just as likely to buy poor quality expensive products. The measure is exclusivity, or status symbol, which is an aspect of quantity. Successful Americans rarely show off their good taste and fine quality, they show off the amount of money they have. Whereas a Japanese person will go into a K-Mart or a Forever-21(low price current fashion 'knock-offs') for that matter and look at the stitching and actually judge the quality. There are poor people in Japan, who wold never buy some types of american products because they know that while it's cheep it won't last very long so the net value is lower. I rarely, if ever, see an American make that trade off (especially in business). In a quality oriented society, people actually build skills to judge quality over a life time. Not every single person mind you, but as a culture we each lean in a direction.
tzury 13y ago
single page version: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/how-japan-copied-american-culture-and-made-it-better-180950189/?all http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/how-japan-copied-americ...
phr4ts 13y ago
Understand the way of the Samurai and you're half way to understanding the Japanese. Shame, dishonour, pride.... these are words that stem from the Samurai way. "Measure twice and cut once." Advice to those who care, watch a few Samurai films and you'll get it.
sdvn 13y ago
I'm really interested in this phenomenon. Can anyone recommend/does anyone know of other articles, essays, or books on the subject?

144 points by eplanit 13y ago

There are plenty of other examples from America, including vintage Ford Mustangs, Winnebagos, Converse tennis shoes and Baseball. I spent a couple of years expatriated to Japan and learned that for a Japanese person to admit they had a hobby or interest actually meant they were expert with it. You wouldn't admit you 'enjoyed playing violin' in your spare time unless you were a maestro. If you were not an expert, you would not talk about your interests. If a Japanese colleague mentioned they had 1966 Mustang, you could be certain it was perfect. For many Japanese colleagues, if I spent enough time drinking with them, I'd find a surprisingly intense sense of pride and mastery in an obscure area of interest. You'd never know about it unless you spent time enough to get past their modesty so they'd talk about it. I'd venture that this is the source of the author's observation about not just copying, but improving. There were also some pretty twisted counter-examples of not getting Americana quite right. I ran across an outer wear store named 'Violence Jack Off', display windows crowded with black leather jackets.[Edit]

tomphoolery 13y ago
> I ran across an outer wear store named 'Violence Jack Off', display windows crowded with black leather jackets. Remind me to name my next punk band "Violence Jackoffs".
ANTSANTS 13y ago
Possibly a play on "Violence Jack"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Jack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Jack
iterationx 13y ago
I was amused when I ran across the "American Superiority Warehouse"

Second_son 13y ago

The Japanese culture and way of life were systematically gutted during and after WWII, after which they slowly came to adopt American norms. Defeated people have imitated the victors time and again throughout history. This has little to do with how amazing the other culture is. I find little to celebrate in the Americanization of yet another unique & rich culture.

deleted 13y ago
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oafitupa 13y ago
> Defeated people have imitated the victors time and again throughout history. This has little to do with how amazing the other culture is. Or it has little to do with being "defeated". Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.
astrange 13y ago
Japanese culture, though very "western", is not very American. Many essential American cultural elements such as religion, guns, cars, libertarians, feminism, and no sex on TV are missing, and it is certainly not as individualist. It's not a great place to be a programmer, though - people I know working at pixiv (a modern foreigner-friendly web startup) aren't paid even entry-level US salaries. But with pixiv you can see one of the good sides of Japan. It's basically DeviantArt, but amateur artists on pixiv have often practiced for years and their art is technically good, whereas DeviantArt posters are all more than satisfied with their weird fetish art they drew in MS Paint. You could try Korea, which is a lot more like America. Specifically, Texas.
- nemasu 13y ago
  I'm a programmer in Japan. And there are so many dev jobs here it's ridiculous... IF you can speak Japanese.

thomasjay 13y ago

The most American game is made in Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8

null_ptr 13y ago

> Dylan is, in fact, the bar’s reason for being: Japanese fans come here to watch his concert videos, listen to his tapes and relive the ’60s in America, a time and place almost none of them witnessed firsthand. Are there any places in America where one may do this today?

adventured 13y ago
I've found that a lot of (all?) major cities in America have throw-back diners and similarly themed restaurants (I don't know any specific to Dylan mind you).
- aswanson 13y ago
  There should be. Dylan is awesome.

l0stb0y 13y ago

One thing that it's difficult for foreigners to acknowledge is that Japan is so completely different to the western world that it's almost impossible to comprehend. Articles like this, and the musings of western visitors/workers, read more to me as people misinterpreting their surroundings and misunderstanding Japanese culture. I'm convinced that a lot of Japanese have difficulty understanding the current state of their own culture too. The best way I can describe it is that western culture (capitalism/consumerism/democracy) does not mix well with traditional Japanese culture and has resulted in a bizarre chaos. My first-hand experience has shown me that a lot of Japanese prefer the traditional culture to what they currently have and I do not blame them one bit.

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greggman 13y ago
What makes you say that it's impossible to comprehend? I've been here on and off ~8 of the last 16 years. Several non Japanese friends that have been here 10, 15, 20, 25 years. I don't get the impression any of them have a hard time comprehending any of it. As for some Japanese (not all by a long shot) preferring traditional, first off, those are not all or even most. Many of those that do are similar to people in the west that prefer "organic" or "natural" or "traditional" for arguably no rational reason. I don't personally know any Japanese that want to go back to any kind of "traditional culture". Heck, I'm writing this from "The Terminal", a shared workspace in Harajuku surrounded by Japanese on notebooks. Hardly "traditional" in any sense.
- celebril 13y ago
  I see you're still perceiving Japanese culture through your native Western lenses. Well done on wasting those 16 years understanding nothing but the superficial.

Tiktaalik 13y ago

The fashion industry owes an enormous debt to Japan for preserving American heritage after America threw it away.

adventured 13y ago
This is hardly accurate. Cultures regularly "throw away" and then later rediscover (re-popularize) pieces of their own historical culture / identity. It has nothing to do with it being preserved by another culture (such that if it weren't, it could have never existed again).
- gregholmberg 13y ago
  Yes. Western civilization became estranged from scientific inquiry itself for many long centuries. If not for the patient and curious scribes of medieval Islam, many significant works from Ancient Greece and Rome would have been lost forever.
- Tiktaalik 13y ago
  That's true, the rediscovery of American heritage clothing may have happened anyway, but I have to imagine the boom in American workwear/sportswear has been made dramatically easier for modern designers thanks to the Japanese otaku that have studiously collected, documented it (Free & Easy, Lightning Magazines) and continued to produce it (Buzz Ricksons, Real McCoy). Due to this, a route to revitalizing an American heritage brand is to simply hire a great Japanese designer. If no one had cared I do think it would have been a much more difficult process and I do think it would have been likely that some knowledge could have been lost.

seanhandley 13y ago

American culture? There's more culture in yoghurt.

bluthru 13y ago
You're quite uncultured if you think America doesn't offer the world a cultural richness. Or maybe you're just resentful that we dropped extraneous h's.
timmyelliot 13y ago
Besides being incredibly cheesy, that joke has been run a zillion times about every country in the world.
smprk 13y ago
The only other country I have been to outside of my own country, is America. And I must say I loved the people and the culture there. If you look at all the small differences between way of life in America and different parts of the world, you will start appreciating all cultures for what niceties they offer. Do try it :-)
dodyg 13y ago
I am not an American but I have some idea. Let me list them: - Pride of national armed forces - America flags outside houses - Tailgating - Extensive participation in volunteering - Jazz/Blues/Hip Hop/Country - Stand up comedy - Improv comedy - Fortune Cookies - Deep Dish Pizza - Sports Watching Craze - Little holiday - Guns, Guns, Guns - 1st Amendment - Religious - College sports - Road Trip! - Weekend sports - Hipsters - Shitty Cable News - High quality ethnic food/fusion - NASCAR - Dive bars - Addiction to pharmaceuticals - Friendly, easy smiles - Cars, Cars, Cars - Kids Lemonade Stands - Walmart - Fields of corns - Scumbag food corporations - Keg Stand - Fake ID edit: formatting

spikels 13y ago

Almost everything is better in Japan! - Taxi doors open themselves (and the drivers wear white gloves) - Subway maps light up to indicate where you are - You can hold your table at a cafe by leaving your phone or keys or wallet & nobody will steal it - Take out coffee often has a piece of tape so it won't spill - People are friendly & cheerful when you met them (although they are much the same when you get to know them) - Goods are packaged beautifully (if perhaps excessively) - Sexuality is much more specialized (if sometimes bizarre) - French pastries are better than in France - Even ice cubes are better - I could go on and on... While Japan has many flaws almost any "thing" you can point to, if not always better, is usually better. What is perhaps more interesting is the things that are worse.

ekianjo 13y ago
> - French pastries are better than in France Is this a joke or something ? I live in Japan, I'm French, and there's no way the pastries you buy over here are as good (or even as cheap) as in France. Or you must have been to the wrong part of France.
- timr 13y ago
  They're not as good as Paris, but they're getting better. The first time I went to Japan, I had a number of experiences buying a perfect-looking french pastry, only to find that the inside was cakey, or filled with hot dog, or some other weird thing. It was like the form of the thing had been perfectly copied, but not the substance. Went back again a couple of years ago, and the average pastry was much closer to what I'd buy at a decent shop in France. I figure they've got another few years before they're competing with the MOF winners. ;-)
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    You can never get pastries as good as in France for a simple reason: humidity. It influences the cooking process in such a way you can never get the same texture, and your pastry will become soft within hours of cooking because it soaks ambient humidity. Pastries in Japan are still quite good, but they can never hope to compare with French ones - they developed their own style and adapted it to Japanese tastes as well, so you can't even expect to get something that has the same taste either, even if it looks alike. And for certain items, you just can't find anything that even matches the supermarket form of it in France : take Pains au chocolat, most of them scream of utter failure in Japan when you bite into them. And I've tried numerous ones, even in expensive bakeries, and was always disappointed. And let's not forget pastries in Japan are way more expensive than in France. That counts, too.

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WhoIsSatoshi 13y ago

I feel the Japanese struggle within their overcrowded society and that "specialization" is a way that one can have his own corner of freedom. If you go over there, you will notice that people work extraneously long hours, get paid little, and are constantly playing an intricate interaction model where seniority, class, sex, origins all play major roles. This is why so many went into video games, anime or manga. They need an escape. And just as you find that drive within their work, which is at the most strict expectation level, you can find traces of it in their hobbies.

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tluyben2 13y ago
Is Japan overcrowded? Because I don't think it is. Yes their cities are (I fail to understand the drive to live in a city, I see mostly disadvantages) but they have a large amount of unpopulated areas which, if people spread out, would not be considered overcrowded? Unlike the Netherlands where I'm from for instance, which is basically a big city.
- skrebbel 13y ago
  And Drenthe.
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    And Drenthe. Edit: I love HN, people care to downvote this joke on a sunday. Must be Drenthenaren who feel discriminated on. Sorry, it wasn't meant that way.
- sampo 13y ago
  Ca. 65% of Japanese are concentrated on this area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiheiy%C5%8D_Belt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiheiy%C5%8D_Belt
- raverbashing 13y ago
  Japan is bigger than Germany However, I believe there are a lot of mountainous terrain, and a lot of small islands as well, which is difficult to populate I believe the tendency of congregating into the same place ends up coming from the culture as well (to find "the best place")

Ryanmf 13y ago

W. David Marx has been doing wonderful analysis of Japan and this phenomenon of trend adoption/synthesis/evolution—specifically with regard to fashion but he's covered many other topics as well—at http://neojaponisme.com http://neojaponisme.com for years now. Don't lose your weekend to the archive. Or, you know, do.

probel 13y ago
But be aware he's considered something of a blowhard and not taken very seriously by the expat community in Tokyo.
- Ryanmf 13y ago
  I'd like to hear more about this, any links you can recommend?
- wdavidmarx 13y ago
  But also be aware probel always says the opposite of the truth and is a little too overly beloved by the expat community in Tokyo.

mailshanx 13y ago

I hope patio11 can comment on this. I've always enjoyed reading his take on Japan. He is extremely well qualified to compare American and Japanese culture: he was born and raised in the US, moved to Japan after graduating and got married there.

romanovcode 13y ago
No offense but your patio11 sounds like a textbook LBH case.

bowlofpetunias 13y ago

A remarkably American centric article, in which the author appears to see America as the origin of things instead of just a dot on a long line that has always been weaving back an forth between different cultures and countries. A casual remark betrays this blind American-centrism: "the new American hipster ideal of Brooklyn is clumsily copied everywhere from Paris to Bangkok". Seriously? Coming from Amsterdam I have a hard time seeing the American hipster culture as anything other than heavily copying Northern-European lifestyles in a way that strongly reminds me of how Japan so often imitates Western cultures. (Also the same pattern, stuff that is added or reshaped in America appears here again, which may confuse the author. But "clumsily copyied", are you f-ing kidding me?) Interesting article, but the lack of perspective bothers me.

justincormack 13y ago
Yes, the Japanese do not have a particular attachment to American culture. They also replicate Scotch whisky lovingly, for example. And there are kissa for all sorts of things.
richliss 13y ago
I agree... I visited Stockholm in the 90's and there were many many young people there that were defacto hipsters in they way they dressed, bought vinyl, used old film cameras like lomo's etc. etc. way before I saw the same in London or New York. I have this view that the individualist fashionistas all around the world are in realtime creating a movement like hipsterism without realising it, and for the most part people think they look like idiots, but every now and again the right person hits the right look at the right time and there's suddenly lots of people copying it, and validating the look creating a movement.

frozenport 13y ago

The focus on material things highlights the problem. They have copied everything, but failed to capture the spirit by not acting like their idols. I would like to see the Japanese people act, rebel, and change the world. All I see is escapism, ironically similar to the escapism Westerner's find in Japanese culture.

davidgerard 13y ago

WARNING: AUTOPLAY VIDEO. Flagged.

emanuer 13y ago

My wife is Japanese and through her I cam to a realization about this very topic. My hypothesis is: Japanese do not accept anything less than perfection. The accompanying motto seems: "If you cannot archive perfection, don’t even bother starting.“ To illustrate my point; My wife might ask me to purchase something for her. Whenever I could not get the specific product she asked for, I just bought something comparable. At home she would be disappointed to her core, to the point where she considered the possibility that my intentions where nefarious. Every time this happened I was shocked. Why would I try to bring her harm by not buying the exact same thing, but something comparable? Now I was convinced that her thought-process is rather unique. Yet, to my surprise, almost every Japanese person who I befriended on a deeper level behaved the same way. To me it seems for Japanese people there is an crucial "line of competency". An average Gaijin (non-Japanese) is seen as incompetent to act according to Japanese customs (rightfully so). Almost everything a Gaijin does, even if it is rather obnoxious, is not judged by Japanese, but accepted as: „Well..., different culture, different habits." When they allow you in their circle, befriend you, you are seen as to cross the „line of competency“ and your actions will be judged by higher standards. Now imagine you grew up in a society where everything you do is expected to be done perfectly. And a consequence of not doing something perfect is bringing shame to you and those around you (Japan is a shame based culture, so that is extremely bad). You will not consider starting a task unless you have a very high chance of archiving mastery. If you do a task, you are not perfect in, you better hide it. Another example: A friend of mine visited me in Japan and quite frequently asked people for directions. To his awe every single one of them went out of their way to help him. People walked for very long distances with him, making 100% certain that he will get to an ATM. In their mind, drawing on a map just did not suffice. They would walk with him all across Shinjuku station (the busiest station on the planet) making sure he will find the right train. To him these were just examples of nice people in Japan. I believe he, unknowingly, tasked these poor people with unreasonably big requests. When asking for the nearest ATM these Japanese did not consider the possibility of pointing in a direction, as this would have left too much room for error. Anything less than walking with him would have brought shame to them. Actually when you ask directions and they „just“ point (it happens) look at their faces. Often thy turn away from you in shame. Or their faces will freeze as if they just did something appalling. Imagine having a country of 129 million perfectionists. How would the society be run? Trains would always be perfectly on time. Food would always look as delicious as in the ads and taste like you hope it would. People would be very stressed committing to anything they have not done 100 times before. People would feel the constant pressure to live up to insane expectations and if they could not hold up to them, they would be anxious to leave their houses (otaku). — If you are not familiar with the Japanese culture, this is exactly like it is in Japan. A last point to support the article, I was in Rome and an Italien friend brought me to „the best pizzeria in Italy“. I must say, it was a truly delicious pizza. 3 Days later I was in Osaka and went with a Japanese friend to a „very good “ pizza place. Every single slice of pizza I ate there was pure perfection. It blew the „best pizzeria in Italy“ out of the water. The pizzeria in the Namba Parks is run by Japanese who studied in Italy.

joshuak 13y ago

From my years with my Japanese wife, and the time I've spend in Japan. I've learned that the key difference of Japanese culture from American culture is is that americans consider quantity as the measure of value, and Japanese consider quality to be that measure. Japanese people will pay more for the higher quality of equivalent goods, and are interested to learn the difference. While americans feel cheated if they pay more for a great meal served in small portions, and consider stores like costco and k-mart to be some of the best shopping choices. I can assure you if you think Japanese people are missing the point by copying others you are very much mistaken. They are not making a copy, they are embracing the point.

adventured 13y ago
I think this is far too blanket of a statement given the radical diversity of America in most every respect. Many Americans certainly will go for the 50% cheaper, 85% as good product. And yet America is the largest market for the iPhone, and it does particularly well here. In the not so distant past, superior Sony products - amongst people I know - used to be heavily desired for their quality. I don't think very many people consider K-Mart to be among the best shopping choices, quite the opposite in fact; ditto Wal-Mart. Being economical doesn't mean they consider it ideal shopping.
- joshuak 13y ago
  It's very difficult to grok without seeing it at many levels for many years. And your counter point is a good example of why. It's easy to point to Americans who have plenty of money and so shop at finer stores. Nevertheless, at every level the difference between cultures is quality vs quantity. Regardless if you and I shop at K-Mart you can not deny the market share those types of stores hold in the US. Most people who don't go to them associate them with being poor, or unfashionable products. Not because we truly evaluate, or even know how to evaluate the quality of the products they sell. This is why rich Americans are just as likely to buy poor quality expensive products. The measure is exclusivity, or status symbol, which is an aspect of quantity. Successful Americans rarely show off their good taste and fine quality, they show off the amount of money they have. Whereas a Japanese person will go into a K-Mart or a Forever-21(low price current fashion 'knock-offs') for that matter and look at the stitching and actually judge the quality. There are poor people in Japan, who wold never buy some types of american products because they know that while it's cheep it won't last very long so the net value is lower. I rarely, if ever, see an American make that trade off (especially in business). In a quality oriented society, people actually build skills to judge quality over a life time. Not every single person mind you, but as a culture we each lean in a direction.

tzury 13y ago

single page version: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/how-japan-copied-american-culture-and-made-it-better-180950189/?all http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/how-japan-copied-americ...

phr4ts 13y ago

Understand the way of the Samurai and you're half way to understanding the Japanese. Shame, dishonour, pride.... these are words that stem from the Samurai way. "Measure twice and cut once." Advice to those who care, watch a few Samurai films and you'll get it.

sdvn 13y ago

I'm really interested in this phenomenon. Can anyone recommend/does anyone know of other articles, essays, or books on the subject?