9 ms·

Satoshi Nakamoto denies being Dorian Nakamoto

280 points by citricsquid 13y ago

acjohnson55 13y ago
If I were Satoshi (Dorian) Nakamoto and I wanted people to leave me alone, I might post as Satoshi and tell people I'm not Dorian. If I'm Satoshi Nakamoto and I'm not Dorian, I might post as Satoshi to try to get people to leave Dorian alone. But that's a pretty feeble attempt. If he cared enough to get people to leave Dorian alone, you'd think he'd come up with something that provided a bit more proof. Otherwise, why bother breaking silence?
Rylinks 13y ago
HN dislikes ning.com; the new page is full of identical dead links to the primary source.
- deleted 13y ago
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naiyt 13y ago
What a crazy bunch of events in the Bitcoin world today. Of course, this isn't necessarily proof that Dorian isn't Satoshi. (I personally don't think that he is, but I guess we'll see.) Regardless, it sure will be nice when the media stops hounding this guy. Especially if he really isn't Satoshi. This could have the potential of completely ruining somebody's life, particularly one who seems rather private like Dorian.
- JetSpiegel 13y ago
  Too late. Whether he his or not, the court of public opinion has already judged him, and he's being chased around LA by "journalists". http://gawker.com/bitcoin-inventor-denies-newsweek-story-after-bizarre-1538090682 http://gawker.com/bitcoin-inventor-denies-newsweek-story-aft... This is Gawker, so take it with a truckload of salt. It's mostly just a rehash of several sources.
  - Snail_Commando 13y ago
    That sequence of tweets reads like something out of Snow Crash.
    - JetSpiegel 13y ago
      William Gibson himself invented a better story: https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441766075005276160 https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441766075005276160 https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441767131605000192 https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441767131605000192
- saraid216 13y ago
  Isn't it convenient that, right when there's a minor cascade of failures in Bitcoin related things, a journalist from Newsweek just happens to figure out who Satoshi Nakamoto must be?
  - mpyne 13y ago
    I think the more convenient answer had to do with Newsweek going back into print, myself.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Do you have a hypothesized conspiracy or causal link that you would like to share, or are you just commenting on coincidences?
    - saraid216 13y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7357862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7357862
      - Crito 13y ago
        I think that is entirely plausible, but I don't really see how Newsweek comes into it. Having a fall-guy in case the shit hits the fan is a bit different from throwing the shit at the fan yourself (the NSA tipping off Newsweek?) and having a fall guy for that.
- elwell 13y ago
  And it's interestingly affected the exchange absolutely not at all. http://markets.blockchain.info/ http://markets.blockchain.info/
  - GigabyteCoin 13y ago
    The markets have been extremely quiet lately. I'm not sure if it's stability or lack of interest.
josephagoss 13y ago
This is likely to be the admin of the site perhaps? Or a hacker? I would have expected the real Satoshi to sign a message from his known address making it certain it's him.
- elwell 13y ago
  That's what I was thinking: admin of site. If it it is Satoshi it could be Dorian lying.
- joeyh 13y ago
  Unless he's a. lost/destroyed the key b. purposefully keeping it uncertain
  - greendestiny 13y ago
    c. Hiding out at his kids house where he doesn't have his keys handy but knows his password.
- ldargin 13y ago
  Its not the admin. Michel Bauwins runs the P2P foundation. He is busy advising the president of Ecuador on their economy. Not a good suspect for juvenile fakery, imho.
- nwh 13y ago
  The owner of the site is looking into it — https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs8fi/i_am_nicolas_mendoza_from_p2p_foundation_we_are/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs8fi/i_am_nicola... The username checks out, has an OTC rating, and has been on bitcointalk since 2011. Completely trustworthy, lets see what they say.
- deleted 13y ago
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jbaudanza 13y ago
Direct link to Satoshi's post: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-source?commentId=2003008%3AComment%3A52186&xg_source=activity http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-sour...
- deleted 13y ago
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- lucb1e 13y ago
  Why does this post matter at all? A. This account was hacked and it doesn't matter. This scenario might be uncovered if ning.com discovers a breach. B. This is Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin, and s/he is trying to clear Dorian's name. C. This is Dorian Nakamoto and he is trying to clear his name. We can never distinguish between B and C, so I don't see the value of posting such a comment, and I'm pretty sure that the inventor of Bitcoin would understand this as well.
calcsam 13y ago
Ideally he would have posted this with Dorian on live TV...
- drcode 13y ago
  Wouldn't prove anything.
  - est 13y ago
    post what you saw about the surroundings on live tv
    - ralmeida 13y ago
      Could still be made by an accomplice trained to this exact kind of situation.
cjbprime 13y ago
"That's just what the real Satoshi Nakamoto would say!"
bruceb 13y ago
He had to connect with tor right? His brother said he would never admit to being the creator of bitcoin.
todd3834 13y ago
Poor guy just wants to be left alone.
dbroockman 13y ago
Should we change our beliefs based on this post? Based on Dorian's denials today, isn't this post just as likely in the world in which Dorian is Satoshi and the world in which Dorian is not? I don't have a strong belief one way or the other, but this doesn't seem like good evidence.
- vl 13y ago
  More interesting question why people even care? I doesn't really matter if this guy or anyone else is creator of bitcoin. Bitcoin is already established, lets say we know for a fact Al Gore invented bitcoin. What changed? Nothing.
tonylampada 13y ago
> I am not Dorian Nakamoto. Is there any way Satoshi could prove this statement? Apart from revealing his identity?
- darkmighty 13y ago
  They could hold up Dorian and ask Satoshi to post something requiring his key, although that couldn't discard the possibility of Dorian having instructed an acquaintance to do so in case of emergency. There's really no way to prove (a posteriori) without doubt that someone is or isn't Satoshi, unless there was an encypted message left by him (a priori) saying "My DNA is (...)", to which he provides the key.
  - GuiA 13y ago
    This is going to become a real life Death Note-style affair!
    - seiji 13y ago
      All we need is 33 bits. We can probably knock off 6-12 bits based on what we know so far.
  - elwell 13y ago
    dna check wouldn't work either
- mangeletti 13y ago
  He could create an algorithm that doesn't rely on trust...
ck2 13y ago
So this guy has had a stroke and cancer. Does anyone care the stress might kill him? I guess not. How about we leave him alone.
- mangeletti 13y ago
  People are concerned about the origins of something that has the potential of changing humanity (for better or worse) and dethroning the existing financial hegemony. I feel bad about all the cameras being shoved in his face, but there's nothing wrong with people inquiring.
  - ck2 13y ago
    Be curious all you want, but doing this to anyone who is not some kind of public official is wrong. Even worse, what if it really is not him? Anyone who has been through that kind of illness deserves to be left the heck alone if they want to be.
    - mangeletti 13y ago
      I'm not suggesting anybody bother him at his home or invade his personal life otherwise, simply that it's OK to inquire.
  - InclinedPlane 13y ago
    Holy crap, get over yourself. Bitcoin is a flash in the pan fad. Maybe eventually there will be a cryptocurrency that's worthwhile but bitcoin having the "potential of changing humanity" is utter bullshit. Also, your argument is completely ass-backwards. It doesn't matter how important the issue is, means are just as important as ends. Look at it this way, consider some other examples. Finding out whether or not someone is a pedophile is extremely important, therefore throwing around baseless allegations is warranted regardless of the impact it has on someone's life. Stopping terrorist activity is important and lives potentially hang in the balance, therefore torturing someone on the basis of limited evidence or limiting people's freedoms or discriminating against people because of their race is justified. It's all variations on the "won't somebody please think of the children!" argument. The seriousness of the issue does not and should not change the importance of protecting an individual's privacy, their rights, and their assumption of innocence. If you thought that your neighbor had the secret to curing cancer that doesn't give you the right to break into his house and beat the shit out of him until he told you what it was. The privacy of Dorian Nakamoto is a slightly less serious issue but it's still important.
sheetjs 13y ago
At this stage, given the conversation about possible hacking, what would constitute definitive proof that someone is actually Satoshi Nakamoto?
- hendzen 13y ago
  Here is is PGP public key: http://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc http://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc
  - userbinator 13y ago
    Or maybe https://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc https://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc would be preferable instead.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  His known PGP key. Alternately, a message signed by one of the first mined coins and/or movement of coins from those coins would be at least strongly suggestive that it's him, although it probably wouldn't carry the weight of his PGP key.
obilgic 13y ago
This does not prove that he is not Dorian Nakamoto, it only tells us that he/them is still alive.
- krapp 13y ago
  It doesn't even prove that unless and until it can be proven that the real Satoshi Nakamoto is the one who posted through that account.
jnbiche 13y ago
Even more interesting: look who signed Satoshi's key on April Fools Day of last year[1]. http://sks.pkqs.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0x18C09E865EC948A1 http://sks.pkqs.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&sear... (ignore the signature from today, anyone could have done that in the brouhaha following today's disclosures) Based on that, it looks pretty clear to me that Dorian Nakamoto decided to "latch on" to the Satoshi Nakamoto founder's myth, either as a way to boost his reputation/ego or as some practical joke (or both!). That or Satoshi the Founder is trolling us all. 1. Originally noted a few moments ago by mpfrank on bitcointalk. EDIT: Duh, it's fake. Obviously, it's possible to set your system clock back. I was so intrigued I wasn't thinking clearly, even after I pointed this very "attack" out during the Ed Snowden GPG affair. Sorry folks, maybe if it were timestamped in the blockchain.
- elwell 13y ago
  Oh wow I totally fell for that. Good troll though.
- coolnow 13y ago
  What does this mean? Dorian may or may not be "Satoshi", but was definitely involved in Bitcoin?
  - selmnoo 13y ago
    One possibility is indeed that Satoshi is trolling us hard. He may actually have based his pseudonym on this guy... but that's playing a dangerous game, as this is in fact one more datapoint to honing in on the real Satoshi. A number of blackhats did this around Lulzsec time. They would adopt a second-level identity -- and drop very, very small hints to make people think they're some person X. Person X being a person the blackhat in question just chose randomly by, oh I dono, cruising around the web where people talk about IT security... choosing an interesting person, learning about them by googling around, and eventually starting to play that person (or rather, play that person playing to be anonymous). This was one of the suggested strategies in the helpdocs wiki, advertised on the irc channel where lulzsec members usually would be. But since Dorian is kind of an old guy, the real Satoshi would have had to know him in real life (hence my saying that it'd be a dangerous game for Satoshi to be playing). But really, I think it's just a very funny coincidence. As others have pointed out, Satoshi Nakamoto is not that of an uncommon Japanese name. Too bad Dorian got dragged into all of this. He seems like a sweet old man, with a great sense of humour ("I want a free lunch", wonderful) and an awesome hobby (model trains are fun). I'll buy you a lunch Dorian!
nfoz 13y ago
No, I'm Spartacus
onewaystreet 13y ago
The "real" Satoshi Nakamoto coming forward after all this time just to say he isn't Dorian Nakamoto seems kind of suspicious to me. It's not like Dorian Nakamoto is the first person to have been accused of being Satoshi.
- lambda 13y ago
  He's the first person to be declared definitively to be Satoshi Nakamoto by a news piece in a major publication, not just idle vague speculation on someone's blog.
  - brohee 13y ago
    Newsweek is very akin to someone's blog nowadays. Nothing justifies taking it as a reliable source of news...
- strlen 13y ago
  We can only speculate, but I'd imagine the real Satoshi is a human being and doesn't want an uninvolved senior citizen (and his relatives, including a 90 year old mother) to be made targets for violent crime. It's highly ironic that the media paints cryptocurrency as tools for a coldhearted clique that only cares for their own material wealth, yet they're the ones cruelly exposing someone who has done them no wrong and (in the case of the Newsweek journalist) refusing to apologize. What happened to kindness and respect?
  - dinkumthinkum 13y ago
    All you people talking about violent crime .., I mean, what, do you think the Bloods and the Crips are following the world of bitcoin? I think the bigger story here, much more interesting than whether this person is Santoshi, is the kind of sociological story of nerd obsession with and belief systems about Bitcoin.
    - flurdy 13y ago
      LA gangs contain a lot of people of which at least a few will be clued up on Bitcoin. And quite a lot more will be clued up now Dorian has hit main stream news. Also a few desperate out of work in heavy debt old IT workers might do something stupid. But I would be mostly worried about the mob. Italian and Russian mafia is reputed to create a large part of their wealth today by online scams and phishing, so they will have people that are fully aware of Bitcoin. And have no qualms visiting people or their relatives to chop off a few fingers. After all I don't think the Silk Road and its compatriots was run by innocent people...
Varcht 13y ago
Satoshi's Dilemma Satoshi has created a new currency, a cryptocurrency. The currency has become more popular and valuable than Satoshi could have imagined. Satoshi now holds almost $1 Billion of his new currency. Due to the currencies psuedo-anonimity, low liquidity and it's value in illicit trade it is far too dangerous for Satoshi to cash in and reveal himself...
- declan 13y ago
  Yes and no. The town I live in has multiple billionaires living in it, and is adjacent to two with even more. I've visited two houses owned by such folks and their answer is what you'd expect: private security guards. Large, well-armed, and very unfriendly until they've verified via radio you're actually supposed to be there. The key is, though, and maybe this is what you're referring to, that these folks don't store wealth on their home PCs. So their threat model is a little different. I'm sure HN readers who follow Bitcoin more closely than I do could think of a better system, but presumably the real Satoshi could hire lawyers to set up a company or trust to hold his bitcoins, sell them over time, and store the proceeds in a more traditional manner. Not especially difficult. And, assuming taxes are paid, it may even be possible to remain anonymous.
  - Varcht 13y ago
    I'd be interested to hear what options he has too.
- nly 13y ago
  > Due to the currencies psuedo-anonimity, low liquidity and it's value in illicit trade it is far too dangerous for Satoshi to cash in and reveal himself... - None of Satoshis coins can be linked to illicit trade because he mined them himself. - Low liquidity isn't really a problem, the Bitcoin community is so fanatical that any coins held by Satoshi would likely sell at a premium... even without the fanclub, he'd certainly make enough to live comfortably for the rest of his life even if he couldn't liquidate all his holdings. - The same fanclub seems quite fierce in defending Dorian/Satoshi. - The tax situation has been official clarified in the UK. Now its recognised as a Capital Gain, US citizens can presumably come here to sell Bitcoin and avoid double taxation under tax treaty? (Possibly, I'm not an accountant or a lawyer)
danielnaab 13y ago
I'm confused by all this. I find the drama interesting, but Newsweek quoted this: "I am no longer involved in that and I cannot discuss it," he says, dismissing all further queries with a swat of his left hand. "It's been turned over to other people. They are in charge of it now. I no longer have any connection." Did the reporter really lie about this statement? That seems like really a massive stretch, to me.
- untog 13y ago
  It's quite possible he was involved, but not the creator.
- walden42 13y ago
  It was a misunderstanding: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BITCOIN_FOUNDER_DENIAL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-03-06-19-35-06 http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BITCOIN_FOUNDER_DE...
  - danielnaab 13y ago
    I am as skeptical about media personalities as anyone else, but I find this explanation hard to swallow. I don't think I would misunderstand a statement like that from a non-native English speaker. In any case, I have no animosity towards the creator of Bitcoin, and I don't think that the original creator has any need for legal worries. But in the heat of the moment, it seems as if many people are mixing up these two separate ideas.
- deleted 13y ago
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- ufmace 13y ago
  The trouble with that statement is that, even if you believe it's a verbatim quote, it isn't clear exactly what he said that in response to. We're meant to assume that it's a response to something like "Are you the creator of Bitcoin?", but the fact that the question isn't part of the quote implies that it isn't that clear. This guy was involved in classified Government work at several companies, and the question could have been either about that, or vague enough that he could have misinterpreted it as being about that, especially if he had never heard of Bitcoin and had no idea what it was. The quotes are a little questionable too. How many people really believe that an average street cop in a small town in California would say "This is the guy who created Bitcoin? It looks like he's living a pretty humble life." It's entirely possible they've been massaged a bit to be shorter and more clear. It's not like there's a recording of the conversations, at least not that we have access to.
Aqueous 13y ago
That's exactly what Dorian Nakamoto would say.
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pzaich 13y ago
Who is Keyser Söze?
deleted 13y ago
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elwell 13y ago
Video of right before the 'car chase' of journalists: http://instagram.com/p/lNv9-_QaNF/ http://instagram.com/p/lNv9-_QaNF/
- drcode 13y ago
  tl;dr Dorian asks reporters for proof of work, then randomly awards the AP reporter one satoshi.
- thatusertwo 13y ago
  'I want free lunch, I'm gonna go with this guy"
  - elwell 13y ago
    a genius
azcoder 13y ago
I think the most compelling evidence that Dorian is Satoshi is described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326 [EDIT: if an eyewitness account is compelling enough for you, this is evidence. it is to me, apparently not to some.] Dorian (as recognized by the retailer) bought a crepe from one of the first retailers to accept bitcoins, the 1st transaction of the crepe retailer's bitcoin address at 1KfQKmME7bQm5AesPiizWk6h3JPUekwoBC for 2.2 bitcoins on July 17 2011, can check the Crepe twitter feed: twitter.com/Ocrepes - "The award for being the first customer who bought crepes for @bitcoins goes to ... anonymous (the winner refused to reveal identity)" Tracing those addresses/transactions back leads to large volume addresses. [EDIT: 432,000 coins]
- euank 13y ago
  Unfortunately, that proves nothing. Early on, there were so few people mining that practically everyone had a "large volume". As such, if you pick any arbitrary bitcoin transaction at that time, it's highly likely it will have originated from a large volume source in the recent past. I think it's more likely a case of mistaken identity; there are many people in this world, and I think that the chance of someone remembering someone from 3 years ago that they saw for half an hour, tops, with sufficient accuracy for a positive ID is much lower than the chance that there are simply two middle aged asian men who look vaguely similar. It's also improbable that "satoshi" would fly across the country for this purchase. One person's word is certainly not compelling to me. Even if that account is 100% accurate, it does not link the man who paid with bitcoins to satoshi, but merely to Dorian. The HN link relies on the flawed NewsWeek article to make the further connection from Dorian to Satoshi.
  - flylib 13y ago
    Dorian is claiming he never heard about Bitcoin until a few weeks ago so if he was using them in 2011, then he is obviously Satoshi
    - euank 13y ago
      That still does not follow. It proves that he lied about not knowing what bitcoin is and it proves that he had bitcoins. Those two facts do not prove that he is Satoshi. It is not obvious. Here, I'll give you an alternative explanation: Dorian was an early bitcoin adopter or otherwise had a small number. When reporters started asking his son if he was Satoshi, he realized that that would damage his reclusive lifestyle if people thought he were Satoshi. He thought that telling the truth, that he knew about bitcoin but wasn't Satoshi, wouldn't be believed so he told a lie to preserve his reclusive lifestyle.
elwell 13y ago
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504715.msg5559860#msg5559860 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504715.msg5559860#ms...
elwell 13y ago
I have a sinking feeling hn's scheduled kernel maintenance is going to make me miss out on new developments of this movie.
- re_todd 13y ago
  Maybe that means pg is Satoshi!
  - stefantalpalaru 13y ago
    No, Satoshi would know how to implement proper pagination.
  - philwelch 13y ago
    Impossible; Bitcoin wasn't originally written in Lisp.
NAFV_P 13y ago
I'm awaiting an harassment case from Mr Sakamoto against the press in the next week or so. Either that or a name change.
pdeuchler 13y ago
Hmmmmm. Assuming the post was made by the actual Satoshi... Dorian Nakamoto is Satoshi: This is an attempt by him to throw people off his scent, which would be foolish and desperate since chances are the millions of eyes focused on him will find more concrete proof than the Newsweek article, rendering the posting moot. Almost guaranteeing the drama will continue, if not whip it into a larger frenzy. Dorian Nakamoto isn't Satoshi: An attempt to absolve someone of harassment. Noble, but not wise, since now he will have to continue to disprove serious accusations of his identity, or else innocent people will be harmed again. And the corollary, if he does not publish a refutation people will assume it's tacit agreement. People will continue looking for him. It's late and I know I didn't think of everything, but I can't see this being a winning move by Satoshi in any scenario. My personal theory? Dorian was a member of a crypto group that eventually gave birth to Bitcoin, but he was never part of the implementation. Maybe he thought of the original math/idea, so they named their pseudonym after him in his honor? Probably not true, but fun!
- azcoder 13y ago
  Dorian == Satoshi [1] It's a desperate attempt to mislead. [1] Here is Dorian making an in-person bitcoin purchase in July 2011: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326
  - pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
    That is not a source. That's a random comment on the internet.
    - duaneb 13y ago
      Too true. I depend on hacker news for many things, but being secure is not a bet I'd put money on. There are ways of making more provable claims in either direction--unless it's either attested multiple times in the past (so as to be difficult to doctor) or it's cryptographically signed or there's a convincing prosecution, I don't think we'll be confident about it.
  - 13y ago
tomphoolery 13y ago
I hope Dorian is Satoshi's actual brother and they're just fucking with the whole media.
andrewljohnson 13y ago
Is Satoshi saying he's not Dorian evidence of anything? That could also be a ploy to try and throw off the scent, as much as it might be Satoshi trying to save this random sap. This reminds me of the knights and knaves puzzle for some reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_and_Knaves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_and_Knaves
gasull 13y ago
P2PFoundation.ning creator, Joseph Davies-Coates, confirms Satoshi's registered account is real: https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs4z2/p2pfoundationning_creator_joseph_daviescoates/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs4z2/p2pfoundati...
bhaumik 13y ago
New video released of Nakamoto at AP denying any role in Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrrtA6IoR_E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrrtA6IoR_E
williamle8300 13y ago
It's obvious: his son is Satoshi Nakamoto... c'mon people
tymski 13y ago
If Satoshi disappeared for as long as he did, would he really come back for THIS? It seems like a waste of time and it's awfully risky. I don't believe Dorian is Satoshi and I don't believe that the response from "Satoshi" is Satoshi. Or perhaps Satoshi isn't as intelligent as he is made out to be and this screw up will in turn screw him, just like the other internet recluses that have fallen?
pirateking 13y ago
You can never hope to discover the truth behind the fiction of Satoshi. The closer you think you get, the further fiction will hide the truth. Indisputable evidence is nice, sure - but knowing is not being[0]. The man is a legend for a reason and will remain that way, regardless of anyone who claims or is proven to be, or not be him. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masked_man_fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masked_man_fallacy
- BrandonY 13y ago
  Sure, it seems like every time you get to the whole truth, the truth just divides itself into smaller and smaller pieces and falls out of your hands. Eventually, though, there must be some fundamental smallest unit of truth that is much smaller than an entire truth. We should come up with some sort of name for this smallest possible division of Bitcoin truth....
adventured 13y ago
One thing is for certain, if Dorian is the real Satoshi, the Feds - NSA and FBI - are all over him, and they will know for certain whether he is the Satoshi (if they didn't know a long time ago). If Dorian = Satoshi, he's going to be forced in front of the NSA, and interrogated about bitcoin, he will have no choice in the matter (it won't matter if he's no longer involved, and it won't matter if there are no weaknesses to give the Feds, they will still do it).
- schoen 13y ago
  NSA isn't a law enforcement agency. If you get contacted (or arrested or detained) by a law enforcement agency, you could ask to have a lawyer present before answering any questions. Your lawyer can help you assert your fifth amendment rights against self-incrimination. I don't mean to deny that the Federal government might already know who the creator of Bitcoin is. They may, and they may have quite strong evidence. However, having "no choice in the matter" of whether to reveal one's identity under interrogation is less clear. At least in the context of a law enforcement investigation, the fifth amendment privilege is quite strong when properly asserted, and the government's power to compel answers from a suspect is correspondingly weak.
  - goldenkey 13y ago
    And the Patriot Act craps all over the 5th amendment unfortunately. A bitcoin founder could be called a domestic terrorist for creation of a "terrorist" money source.
    - schoen 13y ago
      Do you have an example of someone described as a domestic terrorist being compelled to answer questions in an interrogation as a result of the Patriot Act?
- bestdayever 13y ago
  Why would they need to interrogate him, they could just look at the source code. Not to mention they could easily get a plant as a contributor and work in back door code (probably already happened)
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mattbarrie 13y ago
NO, I AM NOT SATOSHI NAKIMOTO! Seriously, how about we leave the guy who had a stroke and cancer but just happens to have a similar name alone. It's obviously not him and this is sloppy journalism.
terranstyler 13y ago
Help Satoshi by claiming that you are not Satoshi and don't tell anyone you read this here.
- terranstyler 13y ago
  Alternatives: Post a pic with a pet, e.g., a dog saying "Such identity" or cat saying "I'm Satoshi. I can has your Coinz now?".
kenjackson 13y ago
From the AP article [1] he has a response that seems really odd: When shown the original bitcoin proposal that Newsweek linked to in its story, Nakamoto said he didn't write it, and said the email address in the document wasn't his. "Peer-to-peer can be anything," he said. "That's just a matter of address. What the hell? It doesn't make sense to me." Asked if he was technically able to come up with the idea for bitcoin, Nakamoto responded: "Capability? Yes, but any programmer could do that." For someone who only recently heard about BitCoin this seems like an odd response. It almost seems like if you made a factually incorrect technical statement about BitCoin in his presence -- he might correct you.
- Udo 13y ago
  Only he doesn't really know how it works. He apparently thinks it's just about peer-to-peer networking, that's why the idea seems so trivial to him. In the AP video he alludes to the fact that he "never communicated with Bitcoin", further demonstrating that he believes it's about networking and not cryptography. He really doesn't know. I've said it before in the other threads but it bears repeating. What Newsweek did was shameful and it looks to me that this guy is a very unlikely candidate. He still has money problems in real life, as well as severe health problems. Framing him as SN is irresponsible.
- Kronopath 13y ago
  Link to the article, since kenjackson here forgot to link it: [1] http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-man-said-create-bitcoin-denies-054716404--finance.html http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-man-said-create-bitcoin-d...
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
Satoshi/Dorian just wants to be left alone and distance himself from it all; the press conference (if you can call it that) and this is all a big cry for having people leave him alone. He's probably already taking steps to change his identity and location.
clouds 13y ago
Meet Dorian Nakamoto. He is just a regular scientist who likes model trains. But the world thinks he is creator of Bitcoin and mafia is chasing him for his $400m fortunes. What does he do? He cooks meth.
deleted 13y ago
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6d0debc071 13y ago
It would seem odd for someone who's otherwise been so careful about security to use his or her real name. It would seem less odd for them to flick through the phone book and choose someone else's name though (or pick it off a grave stone, randomly mash forename and surname together - whatever.) Sharing the name is weak evidence at best. With so many people, odds are if you pick something vaguely okay someone in the world will have it too.
ww2 13y ago
Why Dorian would say something below? Asked if he was technically able to come up with the idea for bitcoin, Nakamoto responded: "Capability? Yes, but any programmer could do that." "Yes, but any programmer could do that." ---- Either this Dorian is ignorant or it is his natural response. This quote is weird.

280 points by citricsquid 13y ago

If I were Satoshi (Dorian) Nakamoto and I wanted people to leave me alone, I might post as Satoshi and tell people I'm not Dorian. If I'm Satoshi Nakamoto and I'm not Dorian, I might post as Satoshi to try to get people to leave Dorian alone. But that's a pretty feeble attempt. If he cared enough to get people to leave Dorian alone, you'd think he'd come up with something that provided a bit more proof. Otherwise, why bother breaking silence?

Rylinks 13y ago

HN dislikes ning.com; the new page is full of identical dead links to the primary source.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

naiyt 13y ago

What a crazy bunch of events in the Bitcoin world today. Of course, this isn't necessarily proof that Dorian isn't Satoshi. (I personally don't think that he is, but I guess we'll see.) Regardless, it sure will be nice when the media stops hounding this guy. Especially if he really isn't Satoshi. This could have the potential of completely ruining somebody's life, particularly one who seems rather private like Dorian.

JetSpiegel 13y ago
Too late. Whether he his or not, the court of public opinion has already judged him, and he's being chased around LA by "journalists". http://gawker.com/bitcoin-inventor-denies-newsweek-story-after-bizarre-1538090682 http://gawker.com/bitcoin-inventor-denies-newsweek-story-aft... This is Gawker, so take it with a truckload of salt. It's mostly just a rehash of several sources.
- Snail_Commando 13y ago
  That sequence of tweets reads like something out of Snow Crash.
  - JetSpiegel 13y ago
    William Gibson himself invented a better story: https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441766075005276160 https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441766075005276160 https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441767131605000192 https://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/441767131605000192
saraid216 13y ago
Isn't it convenient that, right when there's a minor cascade of failures in Bitcoin related things, a journalist from Newsweek just happens to figure out who Satoshi Nakamoto must be?
- mpyne 13y ago
  I think the more convenient answer had to do with Newsweek going back into print, myself.
- Crito 13y ago
  Do you have a hypothesized conspiracy or causal link that you would like to share, or are you just commenting on coincidences?
  - saraid216 13y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7357862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7357862
    - Crito 13y ago
      I think that is entirely plausible, but I don't really see how Newsweek comes into it. Having a fall-guy in case the shit hits the fan is a bit different from throwing the shit at the fan yourself (the NSA tipping off Newsweek?) and having a fall guy for that.
elwell 13y ago
And it's interestingly affected the exchange absolutely not at all. http://markets.blockchain.info/ http://markets.blockchain.info/
- GigabyteCoin 13y ago
  The markets have been extremely quiet lately. I'm not sure if it's stability or lack of interest.

josephagoss 13y ago

This is likely to be the admin of the site perhaps? Or a hacker? I would have expected the real Satoshi to sign a message from his known address making it certain it's him.

elwell 13y ago
That's what I was thinking: admin of site. If it it is Satoshi it could be Dorian lying.
joeyh 13y ago
Unless he's a. lost/destroyed the key b. purposefully keeping it uncertain
- greendestiny 13y ago
  c. Hiding out at his kids house where he doesn't have his keys handy but knows his password.
ldargin 13y ago
Its not the admin. Michel Bauwins runs the P2P foundation. He is busy advising the president of Ecuador on their economy. Not a good suspect for juvenile fakery, imho.
nwh 13y ago
The owner of the site is looking into it — https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs8fi/i_am_nicolas_mendoza_from_p2p_foundation_we_are/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs8fi/i_am_nicola... The username checks out, has an OTC rating, and has been on bitcointalk since 2011. Completely trustworthy, lets see what they say.
deleted 13y ago
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- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

jbaudanza 13y ago

Direct link to Satoshi's post: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-source?commentId=2003008%3AComment%3A52186&xg_source=activity http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-sour...

deleted 13y ago
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lucb1e 13y ago
Why does this post matter at all? A. This account was hacked and it doesn't matter. This scenario might be uncovered if ning.com discovers a breach. B. This is Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin, and s/he is trying to clear Dorian's name. C. This is Dorian Nakamoto and he is trying to clear his name. We can never distinguish between B and C, so I don't see the value of posting such a comment, and I'm pretty sure that the inventor of Bitcoin would understand this as well.

calcsam 13y ago

Ideally he would have posted this with Dorian on live TV...

drcode 13y ago
Wouldn't prove anything.
- est 13y ago
  post what you saw about the surroundings on live tv
  - ralmeida 13y ago
    Could still be made by an accomplice trained to this exact kind of situation.

cjbprime 13y ago

"That's just what the real Satoshi Nakamoto would say!"

bruceb 13y ago

He had to connect with tor right? His brother said he would never admit to being the creator of bitcoin.

todd3834 13y ago

Poor guy just wants to be left alone.

dbroockman 13y ago

Should we change our beliefs based on this post? Based on Dorian's denials today, isn't this post just as likely in the world in which Dorian is Satoshi and the world in which Dorian is not? I don't have a strong belief one way or the other, but this doesn't seem like good evidence.

vl 13y ago
More interesting question why people even care? I doesn't really matter if this guy or anyone else is creator of bitcoin. Bitcoin is already established, lets say we know for a fact Al Gore invented bitcoin. What changed? Nothing.

tonylampada 13y ago

> I am not Dorian Nakamoto. Is there any way Satoshi could prove this statement? Apart from revealing his identity?

darkmighty 13y ago
They could hold up Dorian and ask Satoshi to post something requiring his key, although that couldn't discard the possibility of Dorian having instructed an acquaintance to do so in case of emergency. There's really no way to prove (a posteriori) without doubt that someone is or isn't Satoshi, unless there was an encypted message left by him (a priori) saying "My DNA is (...)", to which he provides the key.
- GuiA 13y ago
  This is going to become a real life Death Note-style affair!
  - seiji 13y ago
    All we need is 33 bits. We can probably knock off 6-12 bits based on what we know so far.
- elwell 13y ago
  dna check wouldn't work either
mangeletti 13y ago
He could create an algorithm that doesn't rely on trust...

ck2 13y ago

So this guy has had a stroke and cancer. Does anyone care the stress might kill him? I guess not. How about we leave him alone.

mangeletti 13y ago
People are concerned about the origins of something that has the potential of changing humanity (for better or worse) and dethroning the existing financial hegemony. I feel bad about all the cameras being shoved in his face, but there's nothing wrong with people inquiring.
- ck2 13y ago
  Be curious all you want, but doing this to anyone who is not some kind of public official is wrong. Even worse, what if it really is not him? Anyone who has been through that kind of illness deserves to be left the heck alone if they want to be.
  - mangeletti 13y ago
    I'm not suggesting anybody bother him at his home or invade his personal life otherwise, simply that it's OK to inquire.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Holy crap, get over yourself. Bitcoin is a flash in the pan fad. Maybe eventually there will be a cryptocurrency that's worthwhile but bitcoin having the "potential of changing humanity" is utter bullshit. Also, your argument is completely ass-backwards. It doesn't matter how important the issue is, means are just as important as ends. Look at it this way, consider some other examples. Finding out whether or not someone is a pedophile is extremely important, therefore throwing around baseless allegations is warranted regardless of the impact it has on someone's life. Stopping terrorist activity is important and lives potentially hang in the balance, therefore torturing someone on the basis of limited evidence or limiting people's freedoms or discriminating against people because of their race is justified. It's all variations on the "won't somebody please think of the children!" argument. The seriousness of the issue does not and should not change the importance of protecting an individual's privacy, their rights, and their assumption of innocence. If you thought that your neighbor had the secret to curing cancer that doesn't give you the right to break into his house and beat the shit out of him until he told you what it was. The privacy of Dorian Nakamoto is a slightly less serious issue but it's still important.

sheetjs 13y ago

At this stage, given the conversation about possible hacking, what would constitute definitive proof that someone is actually Satoshi Nakamoto?

hendzen 13y ago
Here is is PGP public key: http://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc http://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc
- userbinator 13y ago
  Or maybe https://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc https://bitcoin.org/satoshinakamoto.asc would be preferable instead.
jnbiche 13y ago
His known PGP key. Alternately, a message signed by one of the first mined coins and/or movement of coins from those coins would be at least strongly suggestive that it's him, although it probably wouldn't carry the weight of his PGP key.

obilgic 13y ago

This does not prove that he is not Dorian Nakamoto, it only tells us that he/them is still alive.

krapp 13y ago
It doesn't even prove that unless and until it can be proven that the real Satoshi Nakamoto is the one who posted through that account.

jnbiche 13y ago

Even more interesting: look who signed Satoshi's key on April Fools Day of last year[1]. http://sks.pkqs.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0x18C09E865EC948A1 http://sks.pkqs.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&sear... (ignore the signature from today, anyone could have done that in the brouhaha following today's disclosures) Based on that, it looks pretty clear to me that Dorian Nakamoto decided to "latch on" to the Satoshi Nakamoto founder's myth, either as a way to boost his reputation/ego or as some practical joke (or both!). That or Satoshi the Founder is trolling us all. 1. Originally noted a few moments ago by mpfrank on bitcointalk. EDIT: Duh, it's fake. Obviously, it's possible to set your system clock back. I was so intrigued I wasn't thinking clearly, even after I pointed this very "attack" out during the Ed Snowden GPG affair. Sorry folks, maybe if it were timestamped in the blockchain.

elwell 13y ago
Oh wow I totally fell for that. Good troll though.
coolnow 13y ago
What does this mean? Dorian may or may not be "Satoshi", but was definitely involved in Bitcoin?
- selmnoo 13y ago
  One possibility is indeed that Satoshi is trolling us hard. He may actually have based his pseudonym on this guy... but that's playing a dangerous game, as this is in fact one more datapoint to honing in on the real Satoshi. A number of blackhats did this around Lulzsec time. They would adopt a second-level identity -- and drop very, very small hints to make people think they're some person X. Person X being a person the blackhat in question just chose randomly by, oh I dono, cruising around the web where people talk about IT security... choosing an interesting person, learning about them by googling around, and eventually starting to play that person (or rather, play that person playing to be anonymous). This was one of the suggested strategies in the helpdocs wiki, advertised on the irc channel where lulzsec members usually would be. But since Dorian is kind of an old guy, the real Satoshi would have had to know him in real life (hence my saying that it'd be a dangerous game for Satoshi to be playing). But really, I think it's just a very funny coincidence. As others have pointed out, Satoshi Nakamoto is not that of an uncommon Japanese name. Too bad Dorian got dragged into all of this. He seems like a sweet old man, with a great sense of humour ("I want a free lunch", wonderful) and an awesome hobby (model trains are fun). I'll buy you a lunch Dorian!

nfoz 13y ago

No, I'm Spartacus

onewaystreet 13y ago

The "real" Satoshi Nakamoto coming forward after all this time just to say he isn't Dorian Nakamoto seems kind of suspicious to me. It's not like Dorian Nakamoto is the first person to have been accused of being Satoshi.

lambda 13y ago
He's the first person to be declared definitively to be Satoshi Nakamoto by a news piece in a major publication, not just idle vague speculation on someone's blog.
- brohee 13y ago
  Newsweek is very akin to someone's blog nowadays. Nothing justifies taking it as a reliable source of news...
strlen 13y ago
We can only speculate, but I'd imagine the real Satoshi is a human being and doesn't want an uninvolved senior citizen (and his relatives, including a 90 year old mother) to be made targets for violent crime. It's highly ironic that the media paints cryptocurrency as tools for a coldhearted clique that only cares for their own material wealth, yet they're the ones cruelly exposing someone who has done them no wrong and (in the case of the Newsweek journalist) refusing to apologize. What happened to kindness and respect?
- dinkumthinkum 13y ago
  All you people talking about violent crime .., I mean, what, do you think the Bloods and the Crips are following the world of bitcoin? I think the bigger story here, much more interesting than whether this person is Santoshi, is the kind of sociological story of nerd obsession with and belief systems about Bitcoin.
  - flurdy 13y ago
    LA gangs contain a lot of people of which at least a few will be clued up on Bitcoin. And quite a lot more will be clued up now Dorian has hit main stream news. Also a few desperate out of work in heavy debt old IT workers might do something stupid. But I would be mostly worried about the mob. Italian and Russian mafia is reputed to create a large part of their wealth today by online scams and phishing, so they will have people that are fully aware of Bitcoin. And have no qualms visiting people or their relatives to chop off a few fingers. After all I don't think the Silk Road and its compatriots was run by innocent people...

Varcht 13y ago

Satoshi's Dilemma Satoshi has created a new currency, a cryptocurrency. The currency has become more popular and valuable than Satoshi could have imagined. Satoshi now holds almost $1 Billion of his new currency. Due to the currencies psuedo-anonimity, low liquidity and it's value in illicit trade it is far too dangerous for Satoshi to cash in and reveal himself...

declan 13y ago
Yes and no. The town I live in has multiple billionaires living in it, and is adjacent to two with even more. I've visited two houses owned by such folks and their answer is what you'd expect: private security guards. Large, well-armed, and very unfriendly until they've verified via radio you're actually supposed to be there. The key is, though, and maybe this is what you're referring to, that these folks don't store wealth on their home PCs. So their threat model is a little different. I'm sure HN readers who follow Bitcoin more closely than I do could think of a better system, but presumably the real Satoshi could hire lawyers to set up a company or trust to hold his bitcoins, sell them over time, and store the proceeds in a more traditional manner. Not especially difficult. And, assuming taxes are paid, it may even be possible to remain anonymous.
- Varcht 13y ago
  I'd be interested to hear what options he has too.
nly 13y ago
> Due to the currencies psuedo-anonimity, low liquidity and it's value in illicit trade it is far too dangerous for Satoshi to cash in and reveal himself... - None of Satoshis coins can be linked to illicit trade because he mined them himself. - Low liquidity isn't really a problem, the Bitcoin community is so fanatical that any coins held by Satoshi would likely sell at a premium... even without the fanclub, he'd certainly make enough to live comfortably for the rest of his life even if he couldn't liquidate all his holdings. - The same fanclub seems quite fierce in defending Dorian/Satoshi. - The tax situation has been official clarified in the UK. Now its recognised as a Capital Gain, US citizens can presumably come here to sell Bitcoin and avoid double taxation under tax treaty? (Possibly, I'm not an accountant or a lawyer)

danielnaab 13y ago

I'm confused by all this. I find the drama interesting, but Newsweek quoted this: "I am no longer involved in that and I cannot discuss it," he says, dismissing all further queries with a swat of his left hand. "It's been turned over to other people. They are in charge of it now. I no longer have any connection." Did the reporter really lie about this statement? That seems like really a massive stretch, to me.

untog 13y ago
It's quite possible he was involved, but not the creator.
walden42 13y ago
It was a misunderstanding: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BITCOIN_FOUNDER_DENIAL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-03-06-19-35-06 http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BITCOIN_FOUNDER_DE...
- danielnaab 13y ago
  I am as skeptical about media personalities as anyone else, but I find this explanation hard to swallow. I don't think I would misunderstand a statement like that from a non-native English speaker. In any case, I have no animosity towards the creator of Bitcoin, and I don't think that the original creator has any need for legal worries. But in the heat of the moment, it seems as if many people are mixing up these two separate ideas.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ufmace 13y ago
The trouble with that statement is that, even if you believe it's a verbatim quote, it isn't clear exactly what he said that in response to. We're meant to assume that it's a response to something like "Are you the creator of Bitcoin?", but the fact that the question isn't part of the quote implies that it isn't that clear. This guy was involved in classified Government work at several companies, and the question could have been either about that, or vague enough that he could have misinterpreted it as being about that, especially if he had never heard of Bitcoin and had no idea what it was. The quotes are a little questionable too. How many people really believe that an average street cop in a small town in California would say "This is the guy who created Bitcoin? It looks like he's living a pretty humble life." It's entirely possible they've been massaged a bit to be shorter and more clear. It's not like there's a recording of the conversations, at least not that we have access to.

Aqueous 13y ago

That's exactly what Dorian Nakamoto would say.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

pzaich 13y ago

Who is Keyser Söze?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

elwell 13y ago

Video of right before the 'car chase' of journalists: http://instagram.com/p/lNv9-_QaNF/ http://instagram.com/p/lNv9-_QaNF/

drcode 13y ago
tl;dr Dorian asks reporters for proof of work, then randomly awards the AP reporter one satoshi.
thatusertwo 13y ago
'I want free lunch, I'm gonna go with this guy"
- elwell 13y ago
  a genius

azcoder 13y ago

I think the most compelling evidence that Dorian is Satoshi is described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326 [EDIT: if an eyewitness account is compelling enough for you, this is evidence. it is to me, apparently not to some.] Dorian (as recognized by the retailer) bought a crepe from one of the first retailers to accept bitcoins, the 1st transaction of the crepe retailer's bitcoin address at 1KfQKmME7bQm5AesPiizWk6h3JPUekwoBC for 2.2 bitcoins on July 17 2011, can check the Crepe twitter feed: twitter.com/Ocrepes - "The award for being the first customer who bought crepes for @bitcoins goes to ... anonymous (the winner refused to reveal identity)" Tracing those addresses/transactions back leads to large volume addresses. [EDIT: 432,000 coins]

euank 13y ago
Unfortunately, that proves nothing. Early on, there were so few people mining that practically everyone had a "large volume". As such, if you pick any arbitrary bitcoin transaction at that time, it's highly likely it will have originated from a large volume source in the recent past. I think it's more likely a case of mistaken identity; there are many people in this world, and I think that the chance of someone remembering someone from 3 years ago that they saw for half an hour, tops, with sufficient accuracy for a positive ID is much lower than the chance that there are simply two middle aged asian men who look vaguely similar. It's also improbable that "satoshi" would fly across the country for this purchase. One person's word is certainly not compelling to me. Even if that account is 100% accurate, it does not link the man who paid with bitcoins to satoshi, but merely to Dorian. The HN link relies on the flawed NewsWeek article to make the further connection from Dorian to Satoshi.
- flylib 13y ago
  Dorian is claiming he never heard about Bitcoin until a few weeks ago so if he was using them in 2011, then he is obviously Satoshi
  - euank 13y ago
    That still does not follow. It proves that he lied about not knowing what bitcoin is and it proves that he had bitcoins. Those two facts do not prove that he is Satoshi. It is not obvious. Here, I'll give you an alternative explanation: Dorian was an early bitcoin adopter or otherwise had a small number. When reporters started asking his son if he was Satoshi, he realized that that would damage his reclusive lifestyle if people thought he were Satoshi. He thought that telling the truth, that he knew about bitcoin but wasn't Satoshi, wouldn't be believed so he told a lie to preserve his reclusive lifestyle.

elwell 13y ago

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504715.msg5559860#msg5559860 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504715.msg5559860#ms...

elwell 13y ago

I have a sinking feeling hn's scheduled kernel maintenance is going to make me miss out on new developments of this movie.

re_todd 13y ago
Maybe that means pg is Satoshi!
- stefantalpalaru 13y ago
  No, Satoshi would know how to implement proper pagination.
- philwelch 13y ago
  Impossible; Bitcoin wasn't originally written in Lisp.

NAFV_P 13y ago

I'm awaiting an harassment case from Mr Sakamoto against the press in the next week or so. Either that or a name change.

pdeuchler 13y ago

Hmmmmm. Assuming the post was made by the actual Satoshi... Dorian Nakamoto is Satoshi: This is an attempt by him to throw people off his scent, which would be foolish and desperate since chances are the millions of eyes focused on him will find more concrete proof than the Newsweek article, rendering the posting moot. Almost guaranteeing the drama will continue, if not whip it into a larger frenzy. Dorian Nakamoto isn't Satoshi: An attempt to absolve someone of harassment. Noble, but not wise, since now he will have to continue to disprove serious accusations of his identity, or else innocent people will be harmed again. And the corollary, if he does not publish a refutation people will assume it's tacit agreement. People will continue looking for him. It's late and I know I didn't think of everything, but I can't see this being a winning move by Satoshi in any scenario. My personal theory? Dorian was a member of a crypto group that eventually gave birth to Bitcoin, but he was never part of the implementation. Maybe he thought of the original math/idea, so they named their pseudonym after him in his honor? Probably not true, but fun!

azcoder 13y ago
Dorian == Satoshi [1] It's a desperate attempt to mislead. [1] Here is Dorian making an in-person bitcoin purchase in July 2011: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354326
- pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
  That is not a source. That's a random comment on the internet.
  - duaneb 13y ago
    Too true. I depend on hacker news for many things, but being secure is not a bet I'd put money on. There are ways of making more provable claims in either direction--unless it's either attested multiple times in the past (so as to be difficult to doctor) or it's cryptographically signed or there's a convincing prosecution, I don't think we'll be confident about it.
- 13y ago

tomphoolery 13y ago

I hope Dorian is Satoshi's actual brother and they're just fucking with the whole media.

andrewljohnson 13y ago

Is Satoshi saying he's not Dorian evidence of anything? That could also be a ploy to try and throw off the scent, as much as it might be Satoshi trying to save this random sap. This reminds me of the knights and knaves puzzle for some reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_and_Knaves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_and_Knaves

gasull 13y ago

P2PFoundation.ning creator, Joseph Davies-Coates, confirms Satoshi's registered account is real: https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs4z2/p2pfoundationning_creator_joseph_daviescoates/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs4z2/p2pfoundati...

bhaumik 13y ago

New video released of Nakamoto at AP denying any role in Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrrtA6IoR_E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrrtA6IoR_E

williamle8300 13y ago

It's obvious: his son is Satoshi Nakamoto... c'mon people

tymski 13y ago

If Satoshi disappeared for as long as he did, would he really come back for THIS? It seems like a waste of time and it's awfully risky. I don't believe Dorian is Satoshi and I don't believe that the response from "Satoshi" is Satoshi. Or perhaps Satoshi isn't as intelligent as he is made out to be and this screw up will in turn screw him, just like the other internet recluses that have fallen?

pirateking 13y ago

You can never hope to discover the truth behind the fiction of Satoshi. The closer you think you get, the further fiction will hide the truth. Indisputable evidence is nice, sure - but knowing is not being[0]. The man is a legend for a reason and will remain that way, regardless of anyone who claims or is proven to be, or not be him. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masked_man_fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masked_man_fallacy

BrandonY 13y ago
Sure, it seems like every time you get to the whole truth, the truth just divides itself into smaller and smaller pieces and falls out of your hands. Eventually, though, there must be some fundamental smallest unit of truth that is much smaller than an entire truth. We should come up with some sort of name for this smallest possible division of Bitcoin truth....

adventured 13y ago

One thing is for certain, if Dorian is the real Satoshi, the Feds - NSA and FBI - are all over him, and they will know for certain whether he is the Satoshi (if they didn't know a long time ago). If Dorian = Satoshi, he's going to be forced in front of the NSA, and interrogated about bitcoin, he will have no choice in the matter (it won't matter if he's no longer involved, and it won't matter if there are no weaknesses to give the Feds, they will still do it).

schoen 13y ago
NSA isn't a law enforcement agency. If you get contacted (or arrested or detained) by a law enforcement agency, you could ask to have a lawyer present before answering any questions. Your lawyer can help you assert your fifth amendment rights against self-incrimination. I don't mean to deny that the Federal government might already know who the creator of Bitcoin is. They may, and they may have quite strong evidence. However, having "no choice in the matter" of whether to reveal one's identity under interrogation is less clear. At least in the context of a law enforcement investigation, the fifth amendment privilege is quite strong when properly asserted, and the government's power to compel answers from a suspect is correspondingly weak.
- goldenkey 13y ago
  And the Patriot Act craps all over the 5th amendment unfortunately. A bitcoin founder could be called a domestic terrorist for creation of a "terrorist" money source.
  - schoen 13y ago
    Do you have an example of someone described as a domestic terrorist being compelled to answer questions in an interrogation as a result of the Patriot Act?
bestdayever 13y ago
Why would they need to interrogate him, they could just look at the source code. Not to mention they could easily get a plant as a contributor and work in back door code (probably already happened)

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mattbarrie 13y ago

NO, I AM NOT SATOSHI NAKIMOTO! Seriously, how about we leave the guy who had a stroke and cancer but just happens to have a similar name alone. It's obviously not him and this is sloppy journalism.

terranstyler 13y ago

Help Satoshi by claiming that you are not Satoshi and don't tell anyone you read this here.

terranstyler 13y ago
Alternatives: Post a pic with a pet, e.g., a dog saying "Such identity" or cat saying "I'm Satoshi. I can has your Coinz now?".

kenjackson 13y ago

From the AP article [1] he has a response that seems really odd: When shown the original bitcoin proposal that Newsweek linked to in its story, Nakamoto said he didn't write it, and said the email address in the document wasn't his. "Peer-to-peer can be anything," he said. "That's just a matter of address. What the hell? It doesn't make sense to me." Asked if he was technically able to come up with the idea for bitcoin, Nakamoto responded: "Capability? Yes, but any programmer could do that." For someone who only recently heard about BitCoin this seems like an odd response. It almost seems like if you made a factually incorrect technical statement about BitCoin in his presence -- he might correct you.

Udo 13y ago
Only he doesn't really know how it works. He apparently thinks it's just about peer-to-peer networking, that's why the idea seems so trivial to him. In the AP video he alludes to the fact that he "never communicated with Bitcoin", further demonstrating that he believes it's about networking and not cryptography. He really doesn't know. I've said it before in the other threads but it bears repeating. What Newsweek did was shameful and it looks to me that this guy is a very unlikely candidate. He still has money problems in real life, as well as severe health problems. Framing him as SN is irresponsible.
Kronopath 13y ago
Link to the article, since kenjackson here forgot to link it: [1] http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-man-said-create-bitcoin-denies-054716404--finance.html http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-man-said-create-bitcoin-d...

Cthulhu_ 13y ago

Satoshi/Dorian just wants to be left alone and distance himself from it all; the press conference (if you can call it that) and this is all a big cry for having people leave him alone. He's probably already taking steps to change his identity and location.

clouds 13y ago

Meet Dorian Nakamoto. He is just a regular scientist who likes model trains. But the world thinks he is creator of Bitcoin and mafia is chasing him for his $400m fortunes. What does he do? He cooks meth.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

6d0debc071 13y ago

It would seem odd for someone who's otherwise been so careful about security to use his or her real name. It would seem less odd for them to flick through the phone book and choose someone else's name though (or pick it off a grave stone, randomly mash forename and surname together - whatever.) Sharing the name is weak evidence at best. With so many people, odds are if you pick something vaguely okay someone in the world will have it too.

ww2 13y ago

Why Dorian would say something below? Asked if he was technically able to come up with the idea for bitcoin, Nakamoto responded: "Capability? Yes, but any programmer could do that." "Yes, but any programmer could do that." ---- Either this Dorian is ignorant or it is his natural response. This quote is weird.