14 ms·

Engineer's Guide to US Visas

237 points by maccman 13y ago

mehrdada 13y ago
> If you lose in the lottery, they'll refund the fees. One caveat to bear in mind is that applying for this visa shows intent, which may disqualify you for visas in the future which aren't dual intent, such as the B-1 & B-2 visitor visas. (IANAL, but:) This is very wrong on at least two counts: there is no fee for enrolling in the lottery and if anyone charges for it, they are a scammer and you should enroll directly on dvlottery.state.gov site (as explicitly stated in its FAQ). Also, simply signing up for lottery is generally not sufficient ground for immigration intent (though being conservative doesn't hurt).
- hartator 13y ago
  I think he was confused with the situation when you actually win it. If you start the process of getting it, it will show immigration intents and you have fees to pay.
  - mehrdada 13y ago
    That's certainly true: it shows immigration intent at that point, like any application for permanent residence, but no fees will be refunded if for some reason your application gets denied.
- makmanalp 13y ago
  warning: I am not a lawyer and thus not qualified to give legal advice, etc. I've been heard similarly about the DV lottery and immigrant intent before. That said, if you're from one of the lower immigration countries, apparently the success rate is reasonably high for multiple retries. Page 12 here has more info on the issue: http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/DV_Article_2004-05.pdf http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/DV_Article_2004-05.pdf
- Timothee 13y ago
  I'll add that the initial registration is extremely easy and certainly does not require the help from an outside company. When I signed up in the past, if I remember correctly, it was very basic information about my identity, a picture and how to contact me. That was done in just a few minutes. Once you win the lottery, it might or might not be wise to get help, but I don't really know since I didn't win.
jval 13y ago
Cool guide, but I think the E-3's dual intent rules are a bit weird: http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2005/e3polgdnc_121505.pdf http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memorand... "An application for initial admission, change of status or extension of stay in E-3 classification, however, may not be denied solely on the basis of an approved request for permanent labor certification or a filed or approved immigrant visa preference petition." It's not explicitly dual intent but the memo makes it clear that they won't kick you out for pursuing PR.
- adaml_623 13y ago
  Kicking someone out of a country for deciding that they like working there and would like to stay permanently should fit everyone's definition of weird. (I am of course aware that it is standard practice in the immigrant fearing bureaucratic world we live in today.)
- huntsman 13y ago
  Yes, applying for permanent residence with an E-3 visa is possible and not prohibited by dual intent. I successfully did this and there were no problems.
thomseddon 13y ago
To anyone with experience with a H1-B: How closely related does your degree have to be? I get the impression this is a relatively grey area - I have a BEng in Civil Engineering, in my opinion it's somewhat related, I just wondered if there is a clear guidance on this?
- Stratego 13y ago
  It has to be STEM degree: http://www.ice.gov/sevis/stemlist.htm http://www.ice.gov/sevis/stemlist.htm
  - logicallee 13y ago
    "Civil Engineering" is listed in your linked STEM-Designated Degree Program List.
- NhanH 13y ago
  Another question regard the H1-B: is it a bad idea trying to file H1-B without a lawyer? I'm working for a startup, and in the spirit of not-wasting-money, we're trying to file the H1B by ourselves, would that be too risky?
  - maguirre 13y ago
    Don't try to file w/o a lawyer, you will come to regret it. It might be cheaper to do so ($$ wise) but in the end you will be treated with more respect if you have legal representation standing behind you. source (anecdotal): I went through the process of obtaining visa(s) with and without legal representation
  - spiralpolitik 13y ago
    Do not do anything immigration related without a lawyer. Ever.
    - jorde 13y ago
      Except J1 visas and waivers, both are easy enough to deal without a lawyer if you have some help from someone who has done it.
dhfromkorea 13y ago
This is a nice run-down for those looking to swerve into the U.S. for a valid reason (work/study) If anyone seeks less-than-a-year-long work, J-1 Visas are arguably the easiest to get if one has some affiliation with a university. (i.e. students) Proof of concept: I have co-run a non-profit program which connected people in Finland with startups in the Bay Area. I wish there would be more programs similar to http://startuplife.fi http://startuplife.fi (sent close to 100 so far and more than a dozen YC companies have signed up for the program last batch.) Another related blogpost for the J1 track: http://blog.sendtoinc.com/2013/12/11/silicon-valley-internship-j1-visa/ http://blog.sendtoinc.com/2013/12/11/silicon-valley-internsh...
hackerboos 13y ago
"It's for this reason I suggest coming out to SF on your own accord, staying for a short while, and lining up a bunch of interviews with all the companies you're interested in." I believe this is only for B1/B2 visa holders and those who are part of the Visa Waiver Program (UK/Aus etc.). You're not supposed to look for work or attend interviews on a tourist visa.
- ivanca 13y ago
  And you are not supposed to spy on the emails of all the other countries including their prime ministers and senators... but who are we to judge?
  - hackerboos 13y ago
    Hardly relevant.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - ivanca 13y ago
      Please, how is hardly relevant to talk about what you are "supposed to do" based on an institution that does nothing of what is supposed to do? What you are "supposed to do" must have a good reason beyond the law; like actual victims of some sort.
  - milemi 13y ago
    Spying on communications of foreigners, especially highly placed officials, is actually the intelligence agencies' only reason for being.
    - ivanca 13y ago
      Including allies? Something is very wrong with wherever you are picking that definition from.
- 13y ago
tn13 13y ago
Please note that spouse can not do any consulting for home company. Spouse can do no productive work.
- botolo 13y ago
  You're right. I have been a spouse of an H1B holder and I could not do anything, not even volunteering or starting my own business. Before doing any of this, please get the assistance of an immigration lawyer. Doing something wrong under your current visa can jeopardize future visas you may receive one day.
daleharvey 13y ago
I am fairly interested in the rules around Visa Waivers. I have been working for american companies remotely for a while, I do fairly regular visits to the american offices, generally 'Work Meeting' will get you straight passed, but I have a few times been questioned exactly what I do at these work meetings and once tiredly and mistakenly mentioning programming, was very close to being refused entry. The other issue I couldnt find any documentation on how long a visa waiver is valid for, it is given for 3 months, but is that 3 months out of the year or just 3 months at a time? over a full year I occasionally get close to this and was mostly curious.
- DrJokepu 13y ago
  If the customs officer admits you to the United States on visa waiver (WT/WB status) you need leave the United States within 90 days or less. In addition to that, you cannot change your visa waiver status to any other non-immigrant status without departing the United States (e.g. you cannot switch to H1B within America while on WT/WB).
  - nobodysfool 13y ago
    You can change your visa waiver status to another status without departing the USA. My ex wife was from Italy, she came here on vwp and we got married. She stayed during the AOS process.
    - DrJokepu 13y ago
      Your ex wife has changed her status to an immigrant status. The rules forbid changing WT/WB to a non-immigrant (e.g. H1B) status.
- makmanalp 13y ago
  warning: I am not a lawyer and thus not qualified to give legal advice, etc. I don't know specifically about your situation and the VWP but it's not allowed to do things in the country other than your stated purpose, and other than what your visa allows. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Uses_of_a_B1.2FB2_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Uses_of_a_B1.2FB2_visa Looks like most normal work is not allowed, except for the last provision there. If you follow to the source, it says "These would-be entrants are not allowed to receive remuneration from a US source (other than an expense allowance or reimbursement) and must be customarily employed by a non-US firm that will continue to pay their salary during the temporary assignment in the US.". So there you have it.
devnonymous 13y ago
FTA:"However, in my experience, it's absolutely worth it. Moving here was the best thing I ever did. It's an incredible country, and the opportunities here in tech are second to none." I wonder if given the current political, social and economical situation in the US, whether this (still ?) is the prevalent view within the tech community ? Having been to the US multiple times between 2005-2012, I was completely turned off the country. While I agree some of the best companies are based there, I wouldn't like living there.
- jpatokal 13y ago
  "The US" is big and non-homogeneous. Even SF and LA are surprisingly different, much less NY, DC, Austin, Orlando, Honolulu, Nashville, Fargo...
- Dewie 13y ago
  That person is from England/has lived in England. I'd say that the only thing one could say is that tech worker from England thought the US was better.
daGrevis 13y ago
Thanks for this a lot! I'm planning to move to USA when I can and this helps to see the whole picture. My best bet would be a company that really wants me to work for them and arranges all of this.
gdiocarez 13y ago
Title is deceiving....
blackjable 13y ago
As a UK citizen I am making a living as a software engineer (contractor). Would I be able to get live and do the same work in America?
buro9 13y ago
There are two things that give me serious pause about living and working in the USA, and that have made me not pursue or accept opportunities that I've been offered in Seattle and San Francisco. 1) Visas & immigration 2) Health
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  After spending more than 6 years in china, I can see the USA is not really that bad on those two points.
  - blacktulip 13y ago
    What is wrong with China's health service? It is far more affordable than US
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      便宜没好或，好或不便宜 All the Chinese public hospitals are about long waits, giving red envelopes to your doctors, overprescribing antibiotics and IV drips, and scammy Chinese medicine. I have private insurance; the hospitals are way better but the prices make the USA look cheap. Put it this way: USA has first world health care problems, china has developing world health care problems. If you want cheap quality medical tourism, try Thailand.
      - Dewie 13y ago
        > Put it this way: USA has first world health care problems, china has developing world health care problems. As one might expect of countries that are first world and developing world, respectively. When people complain about the US healthcare system, the implicit comparison is probably other first world countries.
- davidw 13y ago
  I agree those things are less than optimal in the US, but at a personal level: 1) The visa stuff is a PITA, but if you are in a situation where you can tell some company to deal with it, it shouldn't be too bad. 2) You get pretty good health care working for most companies in the US as a programmer. If you lose your job, you can presumably relocate to where you were before that has a different health care system.
ldite 13y ago
I found this diagram informative (although not comprehensive, and probably a bit politicised): http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad... (via http://reason.com/blog/2008/09/24/new-at-reason-mike-flynn-shikh http://reason.com/blog/2008/09/24/new-at-reason-mike-flynn-s... )
knuxus 13y ago
Anyone know about something similar but applied to Canada?
- deskamess 13y ago
  NAFTA treaties have options for US and Mexico citizens. For the rest there is the temporary foreign worker program. Your Canadian company has to do labor market opinions and all that stuff - could be time consuming. It is valid for 4 years. After 1 (one) year of starting your job, you can apply for permanent residency under the Canadian Experience Class [CEC] and it is self directed (no employer help needed at that point). Current processing times if you have applied within Canada is 13 months. If you have not got your permanent residency by 4 years, but you have applied for and have a reference number, you can get a renewable 1 year open work permit that lets you work for anybody. Computer jobs are covered by CEC, but not all jobs are. You are eligible for health care after 3 months of being on the job. Until then you can get private coverage.
courtson5 13y ago
If you are are fortunate enough to have the liquidity needed (E.g.: you've already participated in a successful exit in a startup in your home country), there is always the EB-5 investor visa. (invest a half a million to a million dollars and create 10 jobs) Obviously not an option for everyone, but if it is available to you, it may be one of the easiest ways, as you can get a green card relatively quickly via that route.
kartikkumar 13y ago
This is the main reason I've given up. It's not an effective use of anyone's time to wade through the US immigration mess. My J-1 visa expired last October. I was in SF for my PhD research on a J-1 and had to suddenly return to Europe last April due to unforeseen family circumstances. I was in the process of filing for a waiver when I was in SF and had a long call with someone at Google about a position I'd applied for. I discovered that I had just missed the H1B deadline, so there was pretty much no way for me to get a job in 2013. Now that I'm back in Europe, I've been looking into applying for a J-1 waiver and it's just form after form after form. Additionally, you have to pay something in the region of $2000 according to an immigration lawyer I sought out and with that I'd only be throwing my name in the ring, with the possibility that the State Department would reject my waiver application apparently. I absolutely fell in love with SF whilst I was living there and would love to make it back now that I'm wrapping up my PhD, but I think it's neigh on impossible given the current bureaucracy involved. Guess I'm just gonna wait it out and hope for immigration reform to kick in.
- maccman 13y ago
  It sounds like you may be eligible for the O1 visa.
  - kartikkumar 13y ago
    I thought of exploring that, but TBH, my understanding is that you have to be a "publishing machine" to even stand the chance of being considered and unfortunately I haven't been as productive as I had wished during my PhD in terms of number of papers. Maybe I should investigate this further, but the original article also seems to indicate that an O1 is a long shot.
- ankzap 13y ago
  J1 waiver isn't too bad. Yes, it involves some paper-work, but nothing that would need an immigration lawyer. You can do everything yourself, and costs about $200 last I checked. Also look into the O1 visa that doesn't require a waiver, and has no quotas.
lucasnemeth 13y ago
Nice summary. I think it missed one important detail, only US-masters can apply to the extended H1-B quota, if you got a master degree outside the US you are not eligible to that quota and falls under the normal cap.
TravisLS 13y ago
What's the perceived benefit of not allowing the spouse to work? Is this a "they took our jobs" situation, or is there something substantive behind that policy?
- yardie 13y ago
  I'm assuming it's 2 things: 1. These visas are for specializations. This implies that the job is unique and pays well above average salaries so a spouse shouldn't need to work. 2. They want to be attractive yet not too attractive. I'm sure in the subcommittee negotiations on quota it came down to spouses or quotas, (we can let 35,000 families or 70,000 workers). If you watch the government channel they negotiate endlessly over petty things like this.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
drpgq 13y ago
"When the H-1B cap is reached, large companies like Google often look to L-1s instead, moving new employees to their Canadian offices for a year to make them eligible." Huh. I knew Microsoft did this in Vancouver but hadn't heard about Google also using it although it makes sense. As a Canadian I'm not sure if the country really benefits from it, although I guess it boosts the Canadian offices.
- gclaramunt 13y ago
  I can imagine social security and taxes collected can benefit
- ryanweal 13y ago
  I think the Google location is Windsor, but I know they have an office in Montréal and probably Toronto as well.
  - theycallmemorty 13y ago
    I haven't heard about a Google office in Windsor but I know there is one in Waterloo.
jbarham 13y ago
I'm Canadian and worked for over four years a software engineer in SoCal on work visas (TN then H1B). My wife, an Aussie and high school teacher with several years of teaching experience in top international schools in Asia, couldn't legally work in the US. So she volunteered teaching ESL at a local adult school. Ironically many of her students were Hispanics who had originally entered the US illegally. Doubly ironically she got a special commendation award for her volunteering signed by George W. Bush's signing machine. Eventually I got fed up with the bureaucratic farce whereby US visa regulations provide compliant, indentured foreign programmers to US businesses at below market salaries in exchange for the remote possibility that they'll eventually get a green card. So I left and now live in Australia, where I am self-employed, can take time off to work on my own side-projects, and pay less than $300/month for private medical insurance for my family of four. American exceptionalism? Sure--if you're a sucker.
- 616c 13y ago
  I am an American working and living abroad. I am very interested in your comment about being self-employed in Australia. Can write up about how to start a business there and the pros/cons? I would love to read something like that.
  - jbarham 13y ago
    Keep in mind that thanks to my Aussie wife I have permanent residency. In terms of "starting a business" I just had to register for an ABN ("Australian Business Number"). That may not even be a legal requirement but IIRC it had tax advantages. It's a couple years since I did it but as I recall I did it all online in a couple of hours and it didn't cost much. I then just include that number on my invoice. Very civilized. At some point I need to register to charge GST but I'm sure I can do that online too. At no point have I had to visit a government office or get a bureaucrat to sign anything to start a business in Australia.
    - wslh 13y ago
      Keep in mind that thanks to my Aussie wife I have permanent residency. Even if you have a non Australian wife the process of being resident in Australia is pretty straightforward. I have a friend who is Argentinian and emigrated to Australia after finishing the university.
fitzpasd 13y ago
Great guide, I'd love a similar one for Green Cards. For instance, does a Masters in CS qualify you for an EB-2 filing? A search shows that the employer would have to give evidence of the advanced degree being necessary for the job. Usually you wouldn't need a Masters degree for a programmer role but I'm wondering how strict this is in practice. Concretely, if you were to enter the US on a H1-B for a SDE role with BigCorpA and had a Masters degree in CS, could you immediately file for a Green Card under EB-2 category?
- spiralpolitik 13y ago
  Assuming that everybody else performing that role at the company has a Master's degree (or equivalent) there is nothing stopping filing the labor certification on day one. As with anything immigration related. Consult a lawyer, not the internet.
raverbashing 13y ago
It's not worth it You can get a "similar to H1B" visa in Ireland in 2 months time and a lot less paperwork. Germany (and other countries I believe) has a similar schema. With some requirements slightly higher than an H1-B you can be a permanent resident of Canada (maybe Australia and England as well, though I'm not sure how the conditions are on the latter today) So, why bother?
- untog 13y ago
  So, why bother? Better pay and opportunities, it's as simple as that. Having lived in the UK and Canada, I can say that the tech (and particularly startup) industry in the US is simply much bigger and more advanced than other places I've been.
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    Yes I suppose one can make 100k in the valley. And pay how much again for rent? The pay and the opportunities are better, but they may not be significantly better to justify it. In the valley it looks like everything will get an angel round if it stands still long enough or go to enough CV meetings but it is not all there is to life or a career.
    - DrJokepu 13y ago
      Rent is a day-to-day concern that does not matter in long term. Opportunities give you access to experience, connections and reputation that will stay will stack up and stay with you throughout your entire career. To put it other way: resources sunk into cost of living add up linearly over time, the benefits of (exploited) opportunities get amplified and yield exponential results over the years. You want to go for the exponential curve.
      - turnip1979 13y ago
        I disagree. Day to day concerns are exactly what turn into 5-10 year issues. Non-software people get shocked when they hear you make over 100K and can't save much. I do agree that part of it is that what we take for being a normal standard of living is pretty up there. But still ... I find it sad/messed up that after working for 5+ years in a high income, high rent part of the country, I am no closer to buying a house/condo. I just have 50K in the bank. About 100K in retirement. Makes me want to cry :'(
rjzzleep 13y ago
i'm surprised no one is mentioning the eb-2 visa. if you have a masters or higher in cs and are not born in the india or china the wait times seem to be reasonable. [1] the h1b is a dangerous game. it's essentially a do whatever i say, and i "may" sponsor your green card "eventually", with an emphasize on the may. not everyone uses it that way, and i would would be leaning out of the window saying most do, but it's definitely enough to be a common issue. i was brought into a university with an h1b under the premise that i could work on my own startup. what didn't tell me was that that what they meant was that i should work for them for 5 years before they would consider sponsoring a green card application, and that they expected me to work unpaid overtime whenever they asked me to. i've heard from a friend running a consulting company in the area, that a lot of companies bring in workers with h1b's and then don't even have the decency to sponsor a green card after keeping them for 6 years. to my remembrance there was a house voting sometime last september about an immigration reform. one side of the table was asking for better accessibility to visa's for specialized workers(including cali afair), and the other was asking for more audits. sadly i can't tell you how much good came out of it, maybe someone else can elaborate on that. edit: there is a reference at the end of the ops post, but it's not really prominent. eb-3 wait times can be years, which is why it's not really a reasonable choice, but eb-2 is different https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-2_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-2_visa
- huherto 13y ago
  I have a MS from a good US university. I am one of the principal software engineers at my company, and I lead the technical development on some of the most critical systems. It is medium size company. But, I don't do any state of the art research, or highly specialized academic work, or anything worth publishing on academic journals. How hard is to do the Labor Certification for the EB-2 green card? Edit:grammar
  - rjzzleep 13y ago
    IANAL, but I think in theory you already qualify. The effort is a little on the employers side. They have to post the job offer publicly in a news paper in the area, and then they have to have a good reason for hiring you. In theory I would say it's just a question of having a good lawyer. But then again those things have to be done ANYWAY if you want a green card.
justadude 13y ago
With reference to the Green Card Lottery [1] "if you lose in the lottery, they'll refund the fees", there are no fees to enter the lottery, however if you win the lottery there are fees to start the interview and visa process. [1] https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/ https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/
- k3oni 13y ago
  Indeed it's free to enter, just make sure you qualify in the case you win. The required qualifications are minimal but worth reading into it so you don't pay any money and not get the visas. We went through it and it took about half a year for everything to be ready. Lucky wife :)
jongold 13y ago
Excellent guide; shame the situation sucks. The H-4 & O-3 mean that I have these options: - Work at a US startup, marry my girlfriend, she has to be a non-working housewife - Work at a US startup, live the rest of our lives in a long distance relationship - Move to work at a big company like Google (not my scene at all) where I could get an L-1 (which has a good spouse visa) - Go for an O-1 or H-1B & hope that my girlfriend can get one in the same batch. - Just give up on the idea of living in the US I love California; wish it wasn't so hard for me to live there :(
jplmelanson 13y ago
The important difference is that the TN isn't dual intent, and you therefore can't apply for a green card while on it Is there a path to permanent residency for this specific visa or you're better off finding H1B sponsorship?
- cdhdc 13y ago
  The information given regarding TN status isn't entirely accurate. I transitioned from a TN to a Greencard directly. There were several conditions that my immigration lawyer prepared me for so I wasn't violating dual-intent and there was a period of several months when I was unable to leave the US while I waited for my "Advance parole" travel documentation.
speeq 13y ago
"L-1 visa for inter-company transfers If you've worked for the company in a foreign subsidiary for at least one year in the preceding three years, you may be eligible for a L-1 visa. When the H-1B cap is reached, large companies like Google often look to L-1s instead, moving new employees to their Canadian offices for a year to make them eligible. The foreign subsidiary must be related to its US counterpart in one of four ways: parent and subsidiary, branch and headquarters, sister companies owned by a mutual parent, or 'affiliates'. It's a fairly straightforward visa to get if you qualify, and has the added bonus of being dual intent." Would it be possible to open a US business remotely, then a foreign subsidiary in your country of residence - work for a year there and then be eligible for an inter-company L-1 transfer?
- anextio 13y ago
  USCIS is generally very wary about L-1 abuse. The US company would need a full staff and board of directors. i.e. Both sides of the equation have to be real companies doing real things who have a legitimate need to occasionally bring employees across. Neither of the companies can exist solely to funnel workers into the US.
  - speeq 13y ago
    Well, let's say I own a successful business in the UK, want to expand to the US and expect significant growth within the first year - does a L-1 visa allow me to open a new office in the US, if I hire someone competent to take over UK operations?
    - psuter 13y ago
      In your scenario, you will likely (legitimately) qualify for an E-2 visa.
k3oni 13y ago
Here's another one which might help some that want to move to US - Diversity Visa Program(DV Lottery). If you are lucky enough(like my wife was) you will have your green card and visa for the whole family. Some more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa
donohoe 13y ago
Credit History It would be worth adding a note about Credit history and some simple steps you can do to start establishing a good one. I recall getting a joint-loan with my wife (girlfriend at the time) to get things started. I'm sure there are many other ways.
- ojbyrne 13y ago
  Secured (not pre-paid) credit cards worked for me.
  - foobarqux 13y ago
    Do you know of a no-fee secured credit card that is easy for a foreigners apply for online?
    - ojbyrne 13y ago
      This worked for me: https://www.capitalone.com/credit-cards/secured-mastercard/ https://www.capitalone.com/credit-cards/secured-mastercard/ There is a fee though. Plus of course, you have to secure the card. I deposited $500 and initially got a credit line of $700. A few months later it was bumped up to $1300.
venomsnake 13y ago
What is the situation if you are cofounder of startup? So you own some part of US company.
- TheCoelacanth 13y ago
  With an investment of at least $100,000, you could get an E2 visa, but that doesn't come with the possibility of getting a green card. If you have $500,000 to $1 million to invest in a business that will create at least 10 jobs, you can get an EB-5 visa that would put you on track to get a green card.
- jorde 13y ago
  Both H1b and O1 work in this case with the limitation that in H1b you can't own majority share of the company, i.e. someone needs to be able to kick you out. I'm not aware of all the details but you should consult an immigration lawyer about this.
mdda 13y ago
I'm surprised no-one mentioned the E-2 (Treaty Investor) visa. It allows someone from a Treaty country (which includes a lot of developed countries) to start a business in the USA. It's not an intent visa, though (more on that later). I'm from the UK, and did the E-2 application myself (having found that it took as much time to explain to a lawyer as to write the application). My initial investment was $100k (enough to start a software business, provably). I have been renewing that visa since 1999, while living in NYC. Now, however (partly to do with having a 3-year-old), I've moved with my family to Singapore. Visa process took 3 days, and is valid for 12months (and a 12month extension will be very doable, apparently). One aspect of the Green Card process (which is, I believe, somewhat achievable even starting on a E-2, is that you get caught in the US tax regime semi-permanently. Which is taxation on world-wide income. That would make moving to another country relatively painful (and that's partly why there are so few Americans in Singapore : there's no tax advantage to them). Happy to answer any questions.
- cookrn 13y ago
  I mentioned this treaty in another comment, but are the advantages of the E-2 similar in nature for non-Americans to the those afforded to Americans by the DAFT[1]? Is the E-2 only applicable for citizens of countries that have a specific treaty in place? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_(treaty) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_(treaty)
  - mdda 13y ago
    The Treaty country list for the USA : [1] The US E-2 is similar to the (into Netherlands) DAFT, except for the fact that the US doesn't allow for the 'sole entrepreneur' option : You need to fund a business with the plan to employ Americans. [1] http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/fees/treaty.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/fees/treaty.ht...
- thelonelygod 13y ago
  My parents moved my entire family here on a h1 when I was younger. We obtained our Green Cards about 5 years ago. I'm about to graduated college and go start working in NYC. My parents are currently starting the process to get citizenship and I'm choosing not to do it mainly because I'm not sure if I want to stay in the country for the rest of my life and didn't want to be stuck in the US tax abroad issue. You mentioned that getting a green card does in fact put you into the US tax regime semi-permanently. Do you have any links or more information about that?
tmich 13y ago
This thread seems like an excellent opportunity to ask for some advice. I'm a British software engineer based in London, while my girlfriend of 3 and a half years is an American working for a publishing company in NYC. We've been trying to work out whether we think the relationship will work out in the long term, but the only time we've ever been in the same city for more than 3 weeks was the 6 month stint we were at university together. She's very reluctant to move to London - apparently publishing jobs are hard to come by, and she's loathe to leave the current one. As a result, I've been tasked with finding a way that I can spend some time in New York. It wouldn't have to be long - 6 months would be plenty - but I would have to be able to earn money since she currently doesn't really make enough to support herself, let alone me. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could go about doing this?
- janantala 13y ago
  marry her
artmageddon 13y ago
Can someone further explain the dual-intent portion of this? I'm a US citizen and my girlfriend, who is from Iran, is working toward her PhD in CS here in the States. Currently, she's on a F-1 visa(the site says it's not dual-intent), and would like to remain in the states after she completes her studies to work at a US company(most likely in the valley). This caught my eye as a point of concern, so if anyone can elaborate it'd be greatly appreciated: "If you're not on a dual intent visa then you may be asked to prove that you have significant ties to your home country, and no intent to reside in the US permanently or apply for a green card." It's worth mentioning we will probably marry before she completes her PhD.
- milemi 13y ago
  Even if you don't marry, after graduation she can get one year of so called Optional Practical Training, during which she can apply for a dual-intent visa. This is the path I had personally taken. If you do get married, I am almost 100% sure her having been on an F1 visa is no obstacle for her green card application.
  - artmageddon 13y ago
    Ok - how difficult was it to get on the Optional Practical Training? She'll be interning at a major company in the valley this summer(assuming the export control process doesn't pose an issue), and will most likely be doing so next summer as well. Basically, finding work shouldn't be an issue for her after graduation.
    - pucallpa 13y ago
      OPT is time of work that she gets for her studies, Some people wait until they are done with their studies to use that time. If you use it during your studies (in an internship) you'll run out of time by the end, there is new legislation that will let her get an h1b easier coming from an F1.
    - milemi 13y ago
      It was a long time ago, but I remember it being totally routine, no queues and no uncertainty. She should go to her school's immigration office, I'm sure they'll be able to walk her through the application and explain any other options while they're at it.
falsestprophet 13y ago
This is a guide to US visa fraud. Software developers are expressly excluded from the TN visa program. If you show up at the Canadian border as an American or the American border as a Canadian and announce you intend to work as a software developer, you will not be admitted. Of course many commit fraud and represent themselves as "Computer Systems Analysts" or "Management Consultants." L1B visas are meant for those who possess special knowledge of "the petitioning organization’s product, service, research, equipment, techniques, management, or other interests and its application in international markets, or an advanced level of knowledge or expertise in the organization’s processes and procedures." If you announce you intend to work as a software developer you will not be admitted.
- canistr 13y ago
  It's a game of semantics for border services. If you have an engineering degree, it doesn't matter. If you get your employer to change your title from "Developer" to "Engineer" it works out.
  - falsestprophet 13y ago
    It isn't a game of semantics. “Engineers may not fill computer-related jobs under TN classification unless they have credentials as computer or software engineers from institutions that recognize computer or software engineering as bona fide engineering specialties offering full engineering credentials, such as professional engineering licenses.” http://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-blog/2010/6/21/degree-in-engineering-required-for-tn-visa-status-as-softwar.html#sthash.6Vkvr3XI.dpuf http://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-blog/2010/6/21/degree...
    - canistr 13y ago
      That's precisely what I mean by it being a game of semantics. Any computer/science-related degree gets you through the border. Anecdotally, I've heard numerous friends claim that the distinction at the border was their title being changed from "Developer" to "Engineer". Mind you, they all had various computer-related degrees but the scenarios were different depending on whether their degree was titled "Computer Engineering" or "Computer Science".
rabble 13y ago
It's missing the H1B1 visa which is very easy to get but isn't dual intent. It's only available for citizens of Singapore and Chile. It requires little paperwork and takes about a week to get. If you're so lucky as having a Singaporean or Chilean passport i recommend you look in to it.
coin 13y ago
"Getting a bank account is fairly straightforward, and most don't require a SSN." I don't know about this. It's pretty much impossible to open a bank account without a SSN or TIN.
- x5315 13y ago
  I got my bank account with just my passport.
- songgao 13y ago
  I got my bank account before getting my SSN. They ask for passport and maybe some other documents (e.g. I-20 for F-1 Visas) but certainly getting a bank account without SSN is possible.
- spiralpolitik 13y ago
  You can open the account without an SSN. However most banks will generally require you to provide a valid SSN or TN with a certain period of time otherwise they will close the account. Generally if you are in the US legally you will have one of those numbers.
ma2rten 13y ago
> TN Visa > Processing time: Weeks Actually for Canadians the visa is usually given at the border at time of entry. I applied at the US embassy in Bangkok and it didn't take more than a couple of days.
foobarqux 13y ago
This article is geared mostly to employees. Since this is HN, what do foreigners launching startups do?
CodeMage 13y ago
The article missed pointing out a very important detail about H-1B1 visa (for Chile and Singapore): unlike the dual intent H-1B visa, the H-1B1 is a non-immigrant visa. This means that you must establish the non-immigrant intent to get it. It also means that, should you happen to change your mind after some time, you would have to switch to H-1B visa before trying for the green card. Also, speaking from the personal experience, the fact that the H-4 visa doesn't allow your spouse to work deserves more emphasis. If there's anything that might drive me and my family back to Chile, it's the H-4 visa.
NVI 13y ago
L-1B (Intracompany Transferee Specialized Knowledge) "Specialized knowledge means either special knowledge possessed by an individual of the petitioning organization’s product, service, research, equipment, techniques, management, or other interests and its application in international markets, or an advanced level of knowledge or expertise in the organization’s processes and procedures (See 8 CFR 214.2(l)(1)(ii)(D))." http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/l-1b-intracompany-transferee-specialized-knowledge http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers... The definition of "Specialized knowledge" is very broad. Can somebody share their experience of getting L-1B visa?
curiousDog 13y ago
You should also mention EB-5. Pay $500k and get a green-card. No questions asked. Although, you may or may not get back that $500k (considered an at-risk investment) :).

237 points by maccman 13y ago

> If you lose in the lottery, they'll refund the fees. One caveat to bear in mind is that applying for this visa shows intent, which may disqualify you for visas in the future which aren't dual intent, such as the B-1 & B-2 visitor visas. (IANAL, but:) This is very wrong on at least two counts: there is no fee for enrolling in the lottery and if anyone charges for it, they are a scammer and you should enroll directly on dvlottery.state.gov site (as explicitly stated in its FAQ). Also, simply signing up for lottery is generally not sufficient ground for immigration intent (though being conservative doesn't hurt).

hartator 13y ago
I think he was confused with the situation when you actually win it. If you start the process of getting it, it will show immigration intents and you have fees to pay.
- mehrdada 13y ago
  That's certainly true: it shows immigration intent at that point, like any application for permanent residence, but no fees will be refunded if for some reason your application gets denied.
makmanalp 13y ago
warning: I am not a lawyer and thus not qualified to give legal advice, etc. I've been heard similarly about the DV lottery and immigrant intent before. That said, if you're from one of the lower immigration countries, apparently the success rate is reasonably high for multiple retries. Page 12 here has more info on the issue: http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/DV_Article_2004-05.pdf http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/DV_Article_2004-05.pdf
Timothee 13y ago
I'll add that the initial registration is extremely easy and certainly does not require the help from an outside company. When I signed up in the past, if I remember correctly, it was very basic information about my identity, a picture and how to contact me. That was done in just a few minutes. Once you win the lottery, it might or might not be wise to get help, but I don't really know since I didn't win.

jval 13y ago

Cool guide, but I think the E-3's dual intent rules are a bit weird: http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2005/e3polgdnc_121505.pdf http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memorand... "An application for initial admission, change of status or extension of stay in E-3 classification, however, may not be denied solely on the basis of an approved request for permanent labor certification or a filed or approved immigrant visa preference petition." It's not explicitly dual intent but the memo makes it clear that they won't kick you out for pursuing PR.

adaml_623 13y ago
Kicking someone out of a country for deciding that they like working there and would like to stay permanently should fit everyone's definition of weird. (I am of course aware that it is standard practice in the immigrant fearing bureaucratic world we live in today.)
huntsman 13y ago
Yes, applying for permanent residence with an E-3 visa is possible and not prohibited by dual intent. I successfully did this and there were no problems.

thomseddon 13y ago

To anyone with experience with a H1-B: How closely related does your degree have to be? I get the impression this is a relatively grey area - I have a BEng in Civil Engineering, in my opinion it's somewhat related, I just wondered if there is a clear guidance on this?

Stratego 13y ago
It has to be STEM degree: http://www.ice.gov/sevis/stemlist.htm http://www.ice.gov/sevis/stemlist.htm
- logicallee 13y ago
  "Civil Engineering" is listed in your linked STEM-Designated Degree Program List.
NhanH 13y ago
Another question regard the H1-B: is it a bad idea trying to file H1-B without a lawyer? I'm working for a startup, and in the spirit of not-wasting-money, we're trying to file the H1B by ourselves, would that be too risky?
- maguirre 13y ago
  Don't try to file w/o a lawyer, you will come to regret it. It might be cheaper to do so ($$ wise) but in the end you will be treated with more respect if you have legal representation standing behind you. source (anecdotal): I went through the process of obtaining visa(s) with and without legal representation
- spiralpolitik 13y ago
  Do not do anything immigration related without a lawyer. Ever.
  - jorde 13y ago
    Except J1 visas and waivers, both are easy enough to deal without a lawyer if you have some help from someone who has done it.

dhfromkorea 13y ago

This is a nice run-down for those looking to swerve into the U.S. for a valid reason (work/study) If anyone seeks less-than-a-year-long work, J-1 Visas are arguably the easiest to get if one has some affiliation with a university. (i.e. students) Proof of concept: I have co-run a non-profit program which connected people in Finland with startups in the Bay Area. I wish there would be more programs similar to http://startuplife.fi http://startuplife.fi (sent close to 100 so far and more than a dozen YC companies have signed up for the program last batch.) Another related blogpost for the J1 track: http://blog.sendtoinc.com/2013/12/11/silicon-valley-internship-j1-visa/ http://blog.sendtoinc.com/2013/12/11/silicon-valley-internsh...

hackerboos 13y ago

"It's for this reason I suggest coming out to SF on your own accord, staying for a short while, and lining up a bunch of interviews with all the companies you're interested in." I believe this is only for B1/B2 visa holders and those who are part of the Visa Waiver Program (UK/Aus etc.). You're not supposed to look for work or attend interviews on a tourist visa.

ivanca 13y ago
And you are not supposed to spy on the emails of all the other countries including their prime ministers and senators... but who are we to judge?
- hackerboos 13y ago
  Hardly relevant.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - ivanca 13y ago
    Please, how is hardly relevant to talk about what you are "supposed to do" based on an institution that does nothing of what is supposed to do? What you are "supposed to do" must have a good reason beyond the law; like actual victims of some sort.
- milemi 13y ago
  Spying on communications of foreigners, especially highly placed officials, is actually the intelligence agencies' only reason for being.
  - ivanca 13y ago
    Including allies? Something is very wrong with wherever you are picking that definition from.
13y ago

tn13 13y ago

Please note that spouse can not do any consulting for home company. Spouse can do no productive work.

botolo 13y ago
You're right. I have been a spouse of an H1B holder and I could not do anything, not even volunteering or starting my own business. Before doing any of this, please get the assistance of an immigration lawyer. Doing something wrong under your current visa can jeopardize future visas you may receive one day.

daleharvey 13y ago

I am fairly interested in the rules around Visa Waivers. I have been working for american companies remotely for a while, I do fairly regular visits to the american offices, generally 'Work Meeting' will get you straight passed, but I have a few times been questioned exactly what I do at these work meetings and once tiredly and mistakenly mentioning programming, was very close to being refused entry. The other issue I couldnt find any documentation on how long a visa waiver is valid for, it is given for 3 months, but is that 3 months out of the year or just 3 months at a time? over a full year I occasionally get close to this and was mostly curious.

DrJokepu 13y ago
If the customs officer admits you to the United States on visa waiver (WT/WB status) you need leave the United States within 90 days or less. In addition to that, you cannot change your visa waiver status to any other non-immigrant status without departing the United States (e.g. you cannot switch to H1B within America while on WT/WB).
- nobodysfool 13y ago
  You can change your visa waiver status to another status without departing the USA. My ex wife was from Italy, she came here on vwp and we got married. She stayed during the AOS process.
  - DrJokepu 13y ago
    Your ex wife has changed her status to an immigrant status. The rules forbid changing WT/WB to a non-immigrant (e.g. H1B) status.
makmanalp 13y ago
warning: I am not a lawyer and thus not qualified to give legal advice, etc. I don't know specifically about your situation and the VWP but it's not allowed to do things in the country other than your stated purpose, and other than what your visa allows. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Uses_of_a_B1.2FB2_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Uses_of_a_B1.2FB2_visa Looks like most normal work is not allowed, except for the last provision there. If you follow to the source, it says "These would-be entrants are not allowed to receive remuneration from a US source (other than an expense allowance or reimbursement) and must be customarily employed by a non-US firm that will continue to pay their salary during the temporary assignment in the US.". So there you have it.

devnonymous 13y ago

FTA:"However, in my experience, it's absolutely worth it. Moving here was the best thing I ever did. It's an incredible country, and the opportunities here in tech are second to none." I wonder if given the current political, social and economical situation in the US, whether this (still ?) is the prevalent view within the tech community ? Having been to the US multiple times between 2005-2012, I was completely turned off the country. While I agree some of the best companies are based there, I wouldn't like living there.

jpatokal 13y ago
"The US" is big and non-homogeneous. Even SF and LA are surprisingly different, much less NY, DC, Austin, Orlando, Honolulu, Nashville, Fargo...
Dewie 13y ago
That person is from England/has lived in England. I'd say that the only thing one could say is that tech worker from England thought the US was better.

daGrevis 13y ago

Thanks for this a lot! I'm planning to move to USA when I can and this helps to see the whole picture. My best bet would be a company that really wants me to work for them and arranges all of this.

gdiocarez 13y ago

Title is deceiving....

blackjable 13y ago

As a UK citizen I am making a living as a software engineer (contractor). Would I be able to get live and do the same work in America?

buro9 13y ago

There are two things that give me serious pause about living and working in the USA, and that have made me not pursue or accept opportunities that I've been offered in Seattle and San Francisco. 1) Visas & immigration 2) Health

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
After spending more than 6 years in china, I can see the USA is not really that bad on those two points.
- blacktulip 13y ago
  What is wrong with China's health service? It is far more affordable than US
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    便宜没好或，好或不便宜 All the Chinese public hospitals are about long waits, giving red envelopes to your doctors, overprescribing antibiotics and IV drips, and scammy Chinese medicine. I have private insurance; the hospitals are way better but the prices make the USA look cheap. Put it this way: USA has first world health care problems, china has developing world health care problems. If you want cheap quality medical tourism, try Thailand.
    - Dewie 13y ago
      > Put it this way: USA has first world health care problems, china has developing world health care problems. As one might expect of countries that are first world and developing world, respectively. When people complain about the US healthcare system, the implicit comparison is probably other first world countries.
davidw 13y ago
I agree those things are less than optimal in the US, but at a personal level: 1) The visa stuff is a PITA, but if you are in a situation where you can tell some company to deal with it, it shouldn't be too bad. 2) You get pretty good health care working for most companies in the US as a programmer. If you lose your job, you can presumably relocate to where you were before that has a different health care system.

ldite 13y ago

I found this diagram informative (although not comprehensive, and probably a bit politicised): http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad... (via http://reason.com/blog/2008/09/24/new-at-reason-mike-flynn-shikh http://reason.com/blog/2008/09/24/new-at-reason-mike-flynn-s... )

knuxus 13y ago

Anyone know about something similar but applied to Canada?

deskamess 13y ago
NAFTA treaties have options for US and Mexico citizens. For the rest there is the temporary foreign worker program. Your Canadian company has to do labor market opinions and all that stuff - could be time consuming. It is valid for 4 years. After 1 (one) year of starting your job, you can apply for permanent residency under the Canadian Experience Class [CEC] and it is self directed (no employer help needed at that point). Current processing times if you have applied within Canada is 13 months. If you have not got your permanent residency by 4 years, but you have applied for and have a reference number, you can get a renewable 1 year open work permit that lets you work for anybody. Computer jobs are covered by CEC, but not all jobs are. You are eligible for health care after 3 months of being on the job. Until then you can get private coverage.

courtson5 13y ago

If you are are fortunate enough to have the liquidity needed (E.g.: you've already participated in a successful exit in a startup in your home country), there is always the EB-5 investor visa. (invest a half a million to a million dollars and create 10 jobs) Obviously not an option for everyone, but if it is available to you, it may be one of the easiest ways, as you can get a green card relatively quickly via that route.

kartikkumar 13y ago

This is the main reason I've given up. It's not an effective use of anyone's time to wade through the US immigration mess. My J-1 visa expired last October. I was in SF for my PhD research on a J-1 and had to suddenly return to Europe last April due to unforeseen family circumstances. I was in the process of filing for a waiver when I was in SF and had a long call with someone at Google about a position I'd applied for. I discovered that I had just missed the H1B deadline, so there was pretty much no way for me to get a job in 2013. Now that I'm back in Europe, I've been looking into applying for a J-1 waiver and it's just form after form after form. Additionally, you have to pay something in the region of $2000 according to an immigration lawyer I sought out and with that I'd only be throwing my name in the ring, with the possibility that the State Department would reject my waiver application apparently. I absolutely fell in love with SF whilst I was living there and would love to make it back now that I'm wrapping up my PhD, but I think it's neigh on impossible given the current bureaucracy involved. Guess I'm just gonna wait it out and hope for immigration reform to kick in.

maccman 13y ago
It sounds like you may be eligible for the O1 visa.
- kartikkumar 13y ago
  I thought of exploring that, but TBH, my understanding is that you have to be a "publishing machine" to even stand the chance of being considered and unfortunately I haven't been as productive as I had wished during my PhD in terms of number of papers. Maybe I should investigate this further, but the original article also seems to indicate that an O1 is a long shot.
ankzap 13y ago
J1 waiver isn't too bad. Yes, it involves some paper-work, but nothing that would need an immigration lawyer. You can do everything yourself, and costs about $200 last I checked. Also look into the O1 visa that doesn't require a waiver, and has no quotas.

lucasnemeth 13y ago

Nice summary. I think it missed one important detail, only US-masters can apply to the extended H1-B quota, if you got a master degree outside the US you are not eligible to that quota and falls under the normal cap.

TravisLS 13y ago

What's the perceived benefit of not allowing the spouse to work? Is this a "they took our jobs" situation, or is there something substantive behind that policy?

yardie 13y ago
I'm assuming it's 2 things: 1. These visas are for specializations. This implies that the job is unique and pays well above average salaries so a spouse shouldn't need to work. 2. They want to be attractive yet not too attractive. I'm sure in the subcommittee negotiations on quota it came down to spouses or quotas, (we can let 35,000 families or 70,000 workers). If you watch the government channel they negotiate endlessly over petty things like this.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

drpgq 13y ago

"When the H-1B cap is reached, large companies like Google often look to L-1s instead, moving new employees to their Canadian offices for a year to make them eligible." Huh. I knew Microsoft did this in Vancouver but hadn't heard about Google also using it although it makes sense. As a Canadian I'm not sure if the country really benefits from it, although I guess it boosts the Canadian offices.

gclaramunt 13y ago
I can imagine social security and taxes collected can benefit
ryanweal 13y ago
I think the Google location is Windsor, but I know they have an office in Montréal and probably Toronto as well.
- theycallmemorty 13y ago
  I haven't heard about a Google office in Windsor but I know there is one in Waterloo.

jbarham 13y ago

I'm Canadian and worked for over four years a software engineer in SoCal on work visas (TN then H1B). My wife, an Aussie and high school teacher with several years of teaching experience in top international schools in Asia, couldn't legally work in the US. So she volunteered teaching ESL at a local adult school. Ironically many of her students were Hispanics who had originally entered the US illegally. Doubly ironically she got a special commendation award for her volunteering signed by George W. Bush's signing machine. Eventually I got fed up with the bureaucratic farce whereby US visa regulations provide compliant, indentured foreign programmers to US businesses at below market salaries in exchange for the remote possibility that they'll eventually get a green card. So I left and now live in Australia, where I am self-employed, can take time off to work on my own side-projects, and pay less than $300/month for private medical insurance for my family of four. American exceptionalism? Sure--if you're a sucker.

616c 13y ago
I am an American working and living abroad. I am very interested in your comment about being self-employed in Australia. Can write up about how to start a business there and the pros/cons? I would love to read something like that.
- jbarham 13y ago
  Keep in mind that thanks to my Aussie wife I have permanent residency. In terms of "starting a business" I just had to register for an ABN ("Australian Business Number"). That may not even be a legal requirement but IIRC it had tax advantages. It's a couple years since I did it but as I recall I did it all online in a couple of hours and it didn't cost much. I then just include that number on my invoice. Very civilized. At some point I need to register to charge GST but I'm sure I can do that online too. At no point have I had to visit a government office or get a bureaucrat to sign anything to start a business in Australia.
  - wslh 13y ago
    Keep in mind that thanks to my Aussie wife I have permanent residency. Even if you have a non Australian wife the process of being resident in Australia is pretty straightforward. I have a friend who is Argentinian and emigrated to Australia after finishing the university.

fitzpasd 13y ago

Great guide, I'd love a similar one for Green Cards. For instance, does a Masters in CS qualify you for an EB-2 filing? A search shows that the employer would have to give evidence of the advanced degree being necessary for the job. Usually you wouldn't need a Masters degree for a programmer role but I'm wondering how strict this is in practice. Concretely, if you were to enter the US on a H1-B for a SDE role with BigCorpA and had a Masters degree in CS, could you immediately file for a Green Card under EB-2 category?

spiralpolitik 13y ago
Assuming that everybody else performing that role at the company has a Master's degree (or equivalent) there is nothing stopping filing the labor certification on day one. As with anything immigration related. Consult a lawyer, not the internet.

raverbashing 13y ago

It's not worth it You can get a "similar to H1B" visa in Ireland in 2 months time and a lot less paperwork. Germany (and other countries I believe) has a similar schema. With some requirements slightly higher than an H1-B you can be a permanent resident of Canada (maybe Australia and England as well, though I'm not sure how the conditions are on the latter today) So, why bother?

untog 13y ago
So, why bother? Better pay and opportunities, it's as simple as that. Having lived in the UK and Canada, I can say that the tech (and particularly startup) industry in the US is simply much bigger and more advanced than other places I've been.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  Yes I suppose one can make 100k in the valley. And pay how much again for rent? The pay and the opportunities are better, but they may not be significantly better to justify it. In the valley it looks like everything will get an angel round if it stands still long enough or go to enough CV meetings but it is not all there is to life or a career.
  - DrJokepu 13y ago
    Rent is a day-to-day concern that does not matter in long term. Opportunities give you access to experience, connections and reputation that will stay will stack up and stay with you throughout your entire career. To put it other way: resources sunk into cost of living add up linearly over time, the benefits of (exploited) opportunities get amplified and yield exponential results over the years. You want to go for the exponential curve.
    - turnip1979 13y ago
      I disagree. Day to day concerns are exactly what turn into 5-10 year issues. Non-software people get shocked when they hear you make over 100K and can't save much. I do agree that part of it is that what we take for being a normal standard of living is pretty up there. But still ... I find it sad/messed up that after working for 5+ years in a high income, high rent part of the country, I am no closer to buying a house/condo. I just have 50K in the bank. About 100K in retirement. Makes me want to cry :'(

rjzzleep 13y ago

i'm surprised no one is mentioning the eb-2 visa. if you have a masters or higher in cs and are not born in the india or china the wait times seem to be reasonable. [1] the h1b is a dangerous game. it's essentially a do whatever i say, and i "may" sponsor your green card "eventually", with an emphasize on the may. not everyone uses it that way, and i would would be leaning out of the window saying most do, but it's definitely enough to be a common issue. i was brought into a university with an h1b under the premise that i could work on my own startup. what didn't tell me was that that what they meant was that i should work for them for 5 years before they would consider sponsoring a green card application, and that they expected me to work unpaid overtime whenever they asked me to. i've heard from a friend running a consulting company in the area, that a lot of companies bring in workers with h1b's and then don't even have the decency to sponsor a green card after keeping them for 6 years. to my remembrance there was a house voting sometime last september about an immigration reform. one side of the table was asking for better accessibility to visa's for specialized workers(including cali afair), and the other was asking for more audits. sadly i can't tell you how much good came out of it, maybe someone else can elaborate on that. edit: there is a reference at the end of the ops post, but it's not really prominent. eb-3 wait times can be years, which is why it's not really a reasonable choice, but eb-2 is different https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-2_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-2_visa

huherto 13y ago
I have a MS from a good US university. I am one of the principal software engineers at my company, and I lead the technical development on some of the most critical systems. It is medium size company. But, I don't do any state of the art research, or highly specialized academic work, or anything worth publishing on academic journals. How hard is to do the Labor Certification for the EB-2 green card? Edit:grammar
- rjzzleep 13y ago
  IANAL, but I think in theory you already qualify. The effort is a little on the employers side. They have to post the job offer publicly in a news paper in the area, and then they have to have a good reason for hiring you. In theory I would say it's just a question of having a good lawyer. But then again those things have to be done ANYWAY if you want a green card.

justadude 13y ago

With reference to the Green Card Lottery [1] "if you lose in the lottery, they'll refund the fees", there are no fees to enter the lottery, however if you win the lottery there are fees to start the interview and visa process. [1] https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/ https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/

k3oni 13y ago
Indeed it's free to enter, just make sure you qualify in the case you win. The required qualifications are minimal but worth reading into it so you don't pay any money and not get the visas. We went through it and it took about half a year for everything to be ready. Lucky wife :)

jongold 13y ago

Excellent guide; shame the situation sucks. The H-4 & O-3 mean that I have these options: - Work at a US startup, marry my girlfriend, she has to be a non-working housewife - Work at a US startup, live the rest of our lives in a long distance relationship - Move to work at a big company like Google (not my scene at all) where I could get an L-1 (which has a good spouse visa) - Go for an O-1 or H-1B & hope that my girlfriend can get one in the same batch. - Just give up on the idea of living in the US I love California; wish it wasn't so hard for me to live there :(

jplmelanson 13y ago

The important difference is that the TN isn't dual intent, and you therefore can't apply for a green card while on it Is there a path to permanent residency for this specific visa or you're better off finding H1B sponsorship?

cdhdc 13y ago
The information given regarding TN status isn't entirely accurate. I transitioned from a TN to a Greencard directly. There were several conditions that my immigration lawyer prepared me for so I wasn't violating dual-intent and there was a period of several months when I was unable to leave the US while I waited for my "Advance parole" travel documentation.

speeq 13y ago

"L-1 visa for inter-company transfers If you've worked for the company in a foreign subsidiary for at least one year in the preceding three years, you may be eligible for a L-1 visa. When the H-1B cap is reached, large companies like Google often look to L-1s instead, moving new employees to their Canadian offices for a year to make them eligible. The foreign subsidiary must be related to its US counterpart in one of four ways: parent and subsidiary, branch and headquarters, sister companies owned by a mutual parent, or 'affiliates'. It's a fairly straightforward visa to get if you qualify, and has the added bonus of being dual intent." Would it be possible to open a US business remotely, then a foreign subsidiary in your country of residence - work for a year there and then be eligible for an inter-company L-1 transfer?

anextio 13y ago
USCIS is generally very wary about L-1 abuse. The US company would need a full staff and board of directors. i.e. Both sides of the equation have to be real companies doing real things who have a legitimate need to occasionally bring employees across. Neither of the companies can exist solely to funnel workers into the US.
- speeq 13y ago
  Well, let's say I own a successful business in the UK, want to expand to the US and expect significant growth within the first year - does a L-1 visa allow me to open a new office in the US, if I hire someone competent to take over UK operations?
  - psuter 13y ago
    In your scenario, you will likely (legitimately) qualify for an E-2 visa.

k3oni 13y ago

Here's another one which might help some that want to move to US - Diversity Visa Program(DV Lottery). If you are lucky enough(like my wife was) you will have your green card and visa for the whole family. Some more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa

donohoe 13y ago

Credit History It would be worth adding a note about Credit history and some simple steps you can do to start establishing a good one. I recall getting a joint-loan with my wife (girlfriend at the time) to get things started. I'm sure there are many other ways.

ojbyrne 13y ago
Secured (not pre-paid) credit cards worked for me.
- foobarqux 13y ago
  Do you know of a no-fee secured credit card that is easy for a foreigners apply for online?
  - ojbyrne 13y ago
    This worked for me: https://www.capitalone.com/credit-cards/secured-mastercard/ https://www.capitalone.com/credit-cards/secured-mastercard/ There is a fee though. Plus of course, you have to secure the card. I deposited $500 and initially got a credit line of $700. A few months later it was bumped up to $1300.

venomsnake 13y ago

What is the situation if you are cofounder of startup? So you own some part of US company.

TheCoelacanth 13y ago
With an investment of at least $100,000, you could get an E2 visa, but that doesn't come with the possibility of getting a green card. If you have $500,000 to $1 million to invest in a business that will create at least 10 jobs, you can get an EB-5 visa that would put you on track to get a green card.
jorde 13y ago
Both H1b and O1 work in this case with the limitation that in H1b you can't own majority share of the company, i.e. someone needs to be able to kick you out. I'm not aware of all the details but you should consult an immigration lawyer about this.

mdda 13y ago

I'm surprised no-one mentioned the E-2 (Treaty Investor) visa. It allows someone from a Treaty country (which includes a lot of developed countries) to start a business in the USA. It's not an intent visa, though (more on that later). I'm from the UK, and did the E-2 application myself (having found that it took as much time to explain to a lawyer as to write the application). My initial investment was $100k (enough to start a software business, provably). I have been renewing that visa since 1999, while living in NYC. Now, however (partly to do with having a 3-year-old), I've moved with my family to Singapore. Visa process took 3 days, and is valid for 12months (and a 12month extension will be very doable, apparently). One aspect of the Green Card process (which is, I believe, somewhat achievable even starting on a E-2, is that you get caught in the US tax regime semi-permanently. Which is taxation on world-wide income. That would make moving to another country relatively painful (and that's partly why there are so few Americans in Singapore : there's no tax advantage to them). Happy to answer any questions.

cookrn 13y ago
I mentioned this treaty in another comment, but are the advantages of the E-2 similar in nature for non-Americans to the those afforded to Americans by the DAFT[1]? Is the E-2 only applicable for citizens of countries that have a specific treaty in place? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_(treaty) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_(treaty)
- mdda 13y ago
  The Treaty country list for the USA : [1] The US E-2 is similar to the (into Netherlands) DAFT, except for the fact that the US doesn't allow for the 'sole entrepreneur' option : You need to fund a business with the plan to employ Americans. [1] http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/fees/treaty.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/fees/treaty.ht...
thelonelygod 13y ago
My parents moved my entire family here on a h1 when I was younger. We obtained our Green Cards about 5 years ago. I'm about to graduated college and go start working in NYC. My parents are currently starting the process to get citizenship and I'm choosing not to do it mainly because I'm not sure if I want to stay in the country for the rest of my life and didn't want to be stuck in the US tax abroad issue. You mentioned that getting a green card does in fact put you into the US tax regime semi-permanently. Do you have any links or more information about that?

tmich 13y ago

This thread seems like an excellent opportunity to ask for some advice. I'm a British software engineer based in London, while my girlfriend of 3 and a half years is an American working for a publishing company in NYC. We've been trying to work out whether we think the relationship will work out in the long term, but the only time we've ever been in the same city for more than 3 weeks was the 6 month stint we were at university together. She's very reluctant to move to London - apparently publishing jobs are hard to come by, and she's loathe to leave the current one. As a result, I've been tasked with finding a way that I can spend some time in New York. It wouldn't have to be long - 6 months would be plenty - but I would have to be able to earn money since she currently doesn't really make enough to support herself, let alone me. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could go about doing this?

janantala 13y ago
marry her

artmageddon 13y ago

Can someone further explain the dual-intent portion of this? I'm a US citizen and my girlfriend, who is from Iran, is working toward her PhD in CS here in the States. Currently, she's on a F-1 visa(the site says it's not dual-intent), and would like to remain in the states after she completes her studies to work at a US company(most likely in the valley). This caught my eye as a point of concern, so if anyone can elaborate it'd be greatly appreciated: "If you're not on a dual intent visa then you may be asked to prove that you have significant ties to your home country, and no intent to reside in the US permanently or apply for a green card." It's worth mentioning we will probably marry before she completes her PhD.

milemi 13y ago
Even if you don't marry, after graduation she can get one year of so called Optional Practical Training, during which she can apply for a dual-intent visa. This is the path I had personally taken. If you do get married, I am almost 100% sure her having been on an F1 visa is no obstacle for her green card application.
- artmageddon 13y ago
  Ok - how difficult was it to get on the Optional Practical Training? She'll be interning at a major company in the valley this summer(assuming the export control process doesn't pose an issue), and will most likely be doing so next summer as well. Basically, finding work shouldn't be an issue for her after graduation.
  - pucallpa 13y ago
    OPT is time of work that she gets for her studies, Some people wait until they are done with their studies to use that time. If you use it during your studies (in an internship) you'll run out of time by the end, there is new legislation that will let her get an h1b easier coming from an F1.
  - milemi 13y ago
    It was a long time ago, but I remember it being totally routine, no queues and no uncertainty. She should go to her school's immigration office, I'm sure they'll be able to walk her through the application and explain any other options while they're at it.

falsestprophet 13y ago

This is a guide to US visa fraud. Software developers are expressly excluded from the TN visa program. If you show up at the Canadian border as an American or the American border as a Canadian and announce you intend to work as a software developer, you will not be admitted. Of course many commit fraud and represent themselves as "Computer Systems Analysts" or "Management Consultants." L1B visas are meant for those who possess special knowledge of "the petitioning organization’s product, service, research, equipment, techniques, management, or other interests and its application in international markets, or an advanced level of knowledge or expertise in the organization’s processes and procedures." If you announce you intend to work as a software developer you will not be admitted.

canistr 13y ago
It's a game of semantics for border services. If you have an engineering degree, it doesn't matter. If you get your employer to change your title from "Developer" to "Engineer" it works out.
- falsestprophet 13y ago
  It isn't a game of semantics. “Engineers may not fill computer-related jobs under TN classification unless they have credentials as computer or software engineers from institutions that recognize computer or software engineering as bona fide engineering specialties offering full engineering credentials, such as professional engineering licenses.” http://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-blog/2010/6/21/degree-in-engineering-required-for-tn-visa-status-as-softwar.html#sthash.6Vkvr3XI.dpuf http://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-blog/2010/6/21/degree...
  - canistr 13y ago
    That's precisely what I mean by it being a game of semantics. Any computer/science-related degree gets you through the border. Anecdotally, I've heard numerous friends claim that the distinction at the border was their title being changed from "Developer" to "Engineer". Mind you, they all had various computer-related degrees but the scenarios were different depending on whether their degree was titled "Computer Engineering" or "Computer Science".

rabble 13y ago

It's missing the H1B1 visa which is very easy to get but isn't dual intent. It's only available for citizens of Singapore and Chile. It requires little paperwork and takes about a week to get. If you're so lucky as having a Singaporean or Chilean passport i recommend you look in to it.

coin 13y ago

"Getting a bank account is fairly straightforward, and most don't require a SSN." I don't know about this. It's pretty much impossible to open a bank account without a SSN or TIN.

x5315 13y ago
I got my bank account with just my passport.
songgao 13y ago
I got my bank account before getting my SSN. They ask for passport and maybe some other documents (e.g. I-20 for F-1 Visas) but certainly getting a bank account without SSN is possible.
spiralpolitik 13y ago
You can open the account without an SSN. However most banks will generally require you to provide a valid SSN or TN with a certain period of time otherwise they will close the account. Generally if you are in the US legally you will have one of those numbers.

ma2rten 13y ago

> TN Visa > Processing time: Weeks Actually for Canadians the visa is usually given at the border at time of entry. I applied at the US embassy in Bangkok and it didn't take more than a couple of days.

foobarqux 13y ago

This article is geared mostly to employees. Since this is HN, what do foreigners launching startups do?

CodeMage 13y ago

The article missed pointing out a very important detail about H-1B1 visa (for Chile and Singapore): unlike the dual intent H-1B visa, the H-1B1 is a non-immigrant visa. This means that you must establish the non-immigrant intent to get it. It also means that, should you happen to change your mind after some time, you would have to switch to H-1B visa before trying for the green card. Also, speaking from the personal experience, the fact that the H-4 visa doesn't allow your spouse to work deserves more emphasis. If there's anything that might drive me and my family back to Chile, it's the H-4 visa.

NVI 13y ago

L-1B (Intracompany Transferee Specialized Knowledge) "Specialized knowledge means either special knowledge possessed by an individual of the petitioning organization’s product, service, research, equipment, techniques, management, or other interests and its application in international markets, or an advanced level of knowledge or expertise in the organization’s processes and procedures (See 8 CFR 214.2(l)(1)(ii)(D))." http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/l-1b-intracompany-transferee-specialized-knowledge http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers... The definition of "Specialized knowledge" is very broad. Can somebody share their experience of getting L-1B visa?

curiousDog 13y ago

You should also mention EB-5. Pay $500k and get a green-card. No questions asked. Although, you may or may not get back that $500k (considered an at-risk investment) :).