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Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms
"Debate about laws governing filming on farms in Idaho started in 2012 when someone hired by Mercy for Animals got a job at a Bettencourt Dairies operation in Hansen and filmed workers caning, beating and sexually abusing cows.
The video was used to prosecute employees at the dairy, and it convinced Idaho’s dairy industry to create a worker training program to help prevent animal abuse. But it also set in motion a concerted effort by the dairy industry to make sure such embarrassing videos weren’t made in the state again."
- warineurope 13y agoWar (possibly a world war) is breaking out in Eastern Europe, and the top story on hacker news is about cows being caned on farms in Idaho...
- benkulbertis 13y agoCows have been an enslaved species for thousands of years. More cows die at the hands of humans in a week than all the humans that have been slain in human history. Sounds worse than Putin dicking around to me...
- knowaveragejoe 13y agoIf you're coming to HN for news about geopolitical world events, you're gonna have a bad time.
- boomlinde 13y agoWar (possibly a world war) is breaking out in Eastern Europe, and the only means warineurope has to do anything about it is by creating a new hacker news account only to point that out on a completely unrelated topic.
- cdoxsey 13y agoMakes sense. A farm is private property. You don't have the right to come into my house or my place of work and film me. (Even if you suspect I'm doing something wrong) Also makes sense that falsifying a resume in order to do so would be illegal.
- cscurmudgeon 13y agoThere are already trespassing laws which prevent that. This is just plain thuggery.
- valleyer 13y agoI don't understand what you mean by "thuggery" here. Can you explain?
- cscurmudgeon 13y ago1. Trespassing is already a crime. 2. Trespassing here could uncover more serious crimes that are happening. 3. Somebody lobbied a bunch of politicians to make trespassing a very serious offense to deter people from uncovering a more serious crime. Part 3 is the thuggery.
- valleyer 13y agoOK. "Thuggery" seems like a strange way to describe that though since there's no violence involved.
- cscurmudgeon 13y agoI agree. I couldn't think of any word close enough. I was thinking more in terms of the original meaning of "thuggery" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee A band of organized criminals.
- bbosh 13y agoBut what if you are filming from the public street/highway. Surely that should be legal?
- axanoeychron 13y agoThis does not follow. Private property is private but you can still commit crimes on private property. This logic would permit egregious abuse to go on unchallenged behind closed doors because its private property. This cannot honestly be what you are saying? There is a balance between the laws that might be broken in order to discover a crime. If someone commits a crime with the intention to discover another crime, you seem to feel it is acceptable to ignore the second crime? It's actually not okay to create precedent that penalizes people that discover your crime, it only makes crimes easier to hide.
- chris_wot 13y agoThis seems a little sensational.
- koobarbara 13y ago"sexually abused", can anyone explain this bit?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jaredmcateer 13y agoThey are probably penetrated with equipment or tools (e.g., a broom handle) without reason other than to be cruel.
- sillysaurus3 13y agoLet's not make up charges without evidence.
- boomlinde 13y agoDid the poster above you make any assertions? It's not that hard to look it up anyway: http://www.peta.org/videos/sexual-deviance-and-sexual-abuse-of-animals-factory-farmings-dirty-little-secret/ http://www.peta.org/videos/sexual-deviance-and-sexual-abuse-... (don't watch it)
- yuvadam 13y agoWell, it's pretty straightforward. You do know where the milk you drink comes from, right? You do know that cows are forcefully inseminated and impregnated (i.e. raped) in order to keep up the production, right? [I'm not sure why the downvotes are in place just because I'm mentioning a well known fact about how the dairy industry works]
- ndespres 13y agoPlease don't be obtuse or sensationalize this. You know very well that's not what's being referred to here.
- 13y ago
- ama729 13y agoOf all things, you would think that the first amendment would protect such a thing, can any lawyer weight on that? > The measure passed Idaho’s Senate earlier in February to the applause of agricultural representatives who said it would help ensure farmers’ right to privacy. There is a certain irony in the US that everyone can get privacy, except private citizen.
- ithkuil 13y agoThey probably think that privacy only means the right to not see you dirty secrets all over the news
- bobjordan 13y agoI consider myself a far left liberal and I certainly don't condone abusing farm animals. However, taking a paying job under falsified pretenses with a made up resume and then spending your working hours secretly filming internal operations for future public release with the sole goal of harming your employer, that is just sketchy. If you believe in the cause so much that you call it war - well understood. But protected behavior? Bullshit. This behavior should have risk of consequences.
- ollysb 13y agoHow does this play with the current whistleblower laws? Presumably longstanding employees would be protected. Where do you draw the line?
- sitkack 13y agoIt strikes me as an added thought crime. If I get a job in an ag business and after I get there am witness to moral, ethical and legal violations will I be subject to criminal prosecution because they claim I had prior intent? How do they prove that? That I am vegetarian? Seems like an easy way to persecute/prosecute the messenger.
- wmeredith 13y agoIt is not protected behavior. Laws like this bother me because there are already ways to go after these people (fraud, falsifying documents, etc...)
- chrismcb 13y agoWhy do we need legislation like this? TFA says "[jail and a fine] for people who secretly enter ... " Do they not already have trespassing laws?
- boomlinde 13y agoAs far as I understand the U.S. legal system, your crimes add up to your sentence. This means that you could nail someone for both trespassing and filming filming at your farm.
- knowaveragejoe 13y agoAlso, potentially render the video they capture inadmissible in some other case. I'm not 100% sure about that, though.
- leobelle 13y agoI may be wrong but I think in some places trespassing is only prosecuted if you also commit another crime while doing so.
- smutticus 13y agoIt's not trespassing if you're an employee of the farm. We need to wait for a proper first amendment challenge to this before assuming this law will hold up in court. There is a lot about this law that could be challenged on first amendment grounds.
- nysv 13y agoAt least this doesn't brand people doing this as terrorists, like in some states.
- grecy 13y agoAhh, the old "let's compare to the worst to make it look OK". i.e., You know, America's health-care is just FINE, compared to Ethiopia's. This law is terrible, no matter what you compare it to.
- spiritplumber 13y agoHow does preventing filming helps? The cows don't understand a violation of their privacy, but I'm reasonably sure they understand being abused.
- girvo 13y agoThe cows aren't the target here: the people who run the farms and don't want their dirty laundry aired are. It's a sad situation.
- coldcode 13y agoI think the issue isn't family farms, most small farmers take their job seriously. The issue is big conglomerate farms that don't want their industrial processes to be aired and criticized, much less have people discover practices that produce tainted and diseased products that might kill people. It's easier to control the fallout when things go bad when there are no pictures, such as in lawsuits.
- hoggle 13y agoI hope Sergey Brin's artificial meat project will take off soon, there is this constantly increasing demand for cheap meat which has been one of the main reasons behind the increase of factory farms over the years: http://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2013/aug/05/google-burger-sergey-brin-lab-grown-hamburger http://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2013/aug/05/google-...
- Zigurd 13y agoA lot of people don't understand that "factory farms" get franchised out to "small farmers." Big chicken producers hire farmers to raise their chickens. The smaller farmers take on much of the financial risk, employment issues, etc. So when someone takes video of bad practices on a farm, the responsibility might be on the hired farmer, or it might be on the big agra company that hired him but didn't pay enough for humane treatment and sanitary conditions. The main issue is that often a farm isn't merely some small farmers property. It's the place where big agra policies are being enacted. Few people would be outraged if someone smuggled a camera into a big factory to document abuses. Be skeptical of privacy arguments here. This is the equivalent of a big manufacturer contracting out to small sweatshops.
- cwbrandsma 13y agoMy background, I am from Idaho, my father, brother, and brother-in-law are all dairymen, and I worked my dad's dairy for 15 years. I also know the guy who owns the dairy the film was taken on, and I know quite a few of the people performing the most ageegious acts were fired soon after it was published. But, as an issue, the film was just published, in the most sensational way they could, and NO effort was made to contact the dairyman ahead of time. The point of making the film was not help, but to hurt, permanently. The film that was produced, is being used against all areas of the milk industry. The people using it add words to the effect of "this is how all dairies treat their cows". I've already seen it used in campaigns against yogurt and cheese producers. Also, the debate continues over here about the law. Some dairymen are campaigning to reverse the law and open things up completely. But a big issue is education, too many people in America have never really touched a cow, and think people treat them like a cat.
- geekam 13y agoIt may sound like a rhetoric question but it is not. Why is the gov. banning filming? What's in it for the gov.?
- lprubin 13y agoOne side will say that what's in it for the gov is millions of dollars in campaign contributions from big agriculture. The other side will say that bad publicity for their dairy industry will hurt the state's economy and cost jobs and tax revenue.
- pyre 13y ago... and yet the third side says that if an entire state's economy is based on sweeping illegal (and immoral) acts under the rug for the 'greater good,' then something is severely wrong.
- kahirsch 13y agoText of law: http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2014/S1337.pdf http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2014/S1337.pdf
- EGreg 13y agoMeanwhile it's ok to film citizens to "prevent terrorism". I bet you that Idaho law would still allow filming if you suspected terrorism inside the farm lol
- dangayle 13y agoA farmer's right to privacy, my ass. This law is big agriculture, plain and simple. These Ag-Gag laws are a farce.
- pasbesoin 13y agoAt a minimum, I hope that this means that when violations are exposed, the violating entity is in turn treated as a single, opaque unit it has sought to be: Criminal prosecution for all its members and investors, and fine and jail time for all. Live by the sword, die by the sword... This sounds extreme, but I've about had it with such people who want to "have their cake and eat it, too". If you are an ethical, well-run business, your own employees communication as well as your interface with the public keep you honest and efficient. If you play a part in insisting that all this be "swept under the rug", then you should de facto play a part in paying the consequences. Whether or not you were individually, directly involved.
- deedubaya 13y agoI grew up on a beef farm in Idaho, a family business. I have some opinions about this. 1) I don't believe animal cruelty is okay. 2) If someone is abusing an animal, they should be prosecuted by the law 3) I find that many people have no idea the conditions or actions that are required to raise large animals. Some practices may seem cruel to the unknowing bystander, but are, in fact, practices to help maintain the health of the animals, the safety of the workers who manage them, and provide a product that we, the consumer, will enjoy. As for this bill, I believe that it shows a serious flaw in the way we raise and produce food in the United States. The demand for low prices have resulted in an attempted mass production of animals. This bill does make it appear that these farmers are guilty of something wrong, and they're trying to hide it. That may or may not be the case. I do know that if they are doing something wrong, there are legal avenues in place to investigate and prosecute the wrong doers.
- nilved 13y agoA beef farm is animal abuse and you should be prosecuted by the law.
- hispanic 13y agoIf you don't agree with this, consider signing the ag-gag petition - http://ag-gag.org/ http://ag-gag.org/