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Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

178 points by ghosh 13y ago

andyjohnson0 13y ago
Since it isn't explained in the article: IIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology IIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management
- dhaneshnm 13y ago
  It is interesting that, Nadella is from Manipal Institute and not a product of "elite" IIT/IIM system. It is rare to see an Indian born techie, doing well abroad, not from the IIT/IIM system.
  - middleclick 13y ago
    Another exception to this is Shantanu Narayen (Adobe CEO) who is not from IIT/IIM.
  - e15ctr0n 13y ago
    Sanjay Jha, former CEO of Motorola Mobility and current CEO of GlobalFoundries, is also not from IIT/IIM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjay_Jha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjay_Jha
  - kamaal 13y ago
    >> It is rare to see an Indian born techie, doing well abroad, not from the IIT/IIM system. That's just plain untrue. The problem is IIT alumnus works double time to do their marketing. The IIT entrance exams are super difficult to ensure only the most hard working of all India gets through. This inturn creates a situation where you have all that good people at one place. Its but other wise obvious they do well. But to say the ordinary Indian doesn't do well is plain wrong. Today's India was built by ordinary guys. The IIT'ians well most of them contribute to the growth of countries like US, not India.
- _nedR 13y ago
  "99 percent of Indian aspirants to get admissions even to an IIT or IIM, but it is far simpler to get into an Ivy League institution. If you don’t get into an IIM, you try Harvard." It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. IIT is definitely hard at the Undergraduate level (and harder than any US institution) primarily due to the sheer number of students trying to get in. The coursework is also pretty tough. Vinod Khosla( a co-founder of Sun Microsystems) said that after doing his undergrad in IIT Delhi, higher studies in Carnegie Mellon and Stanford were just a cakewalk.
  - r0h1n 13y ago
    > It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. Last year 1,73,735 candidates took the CAT admission test through which the IIMs admit 3,335 MBA students. That's a 1:52 ratio. Now you could argue that not everyone who takes the CAT is an IIM applicant. So let's take IIM Ahmedabad's (slightly dated) data for 2006-08 admission [1]. Of the 1,44,027 who applied to the institute, 273 secured an admission. That's a 1:527 ratio. Harvard Business School's admissions:applications ratio is 1:12 [2] I'm sure you have an explanation of why a 1:527 ratio is "not that hard". [0] http://www.business-standard.com/article/management/boys-rule-cat-results-114011400888_1.html http://www.business-standard.com/article/management/boys-rul... [1] http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/institute/about/key-facts/institute-statistics.html http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/institute/about/key-facts/institu... [2] http://www.hbs.edu/about/facts-and-figures/Pages/mba-statistics.aspx http://www.hbs.edu/about/facts-and-figures/Pages/mba-statist...
    - pavs 13y ago
      I can't help but notice you guys are ignoring the fact that india has a huge population. In the context of indian population does this numbers really look that impressive? Doesn't it also mean that there are not enough highly sought after institutions like IIM or IIT?
    - enscr 13y ago
      A caveat : The pool of IIM or IIT aspirants is a very low signal to noise ratio. It's not just that they are hard to get into, it's the number of people who aren't prepared for it but still pony up the entrance fee. I'm sure that's not the case with Ivy leagues.
mhurron 13y ago
“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.
- nodata 13y ago
  I understand your point, but for the olympics in particular you are saying something different: that someone's training and environment and opportunities in a particular country are meaningless.
  - falcolas 13y ago
    Given how many Olympians abandon the country they represent to train, it is somewhat meaningless. Seriously, if there's one thing I've learned from watching the Olympics, it's that many of the successful ones are enabled by their ability to move away from their place of birth, well, that and good genetics.
    - nodata 13y ago
      Well there you go then: the place where they were born determines their drive or ability to move away from their place of birth. It's not random.
- pratkar 13y ago
  George Carlin eh?
- shrikant 13y ago
  I strongly agree with this. Nationalist pride is the Kool-Aid peddled by government and society to get you to conform to their respective agendas and keep you from questioning the stupid shit they get up to. And I really don't mean to come off as a pothead going "It's all a giant conspiracy man!"...
  - 13y ago
quchen 13y ago
Statistically, it compares the single case of Nadella to the statistical blob of people that is the "Indian system". Tough comparison when there are a billion of Indians, and the other dozen examples given don't change that. Politically, it calls the US not being nationalist (or at least hostile towards Indians in particular) in this case a "slap in the face". Just no.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  My feeling exactly. The idea that one man's decision to live and work in another country besmirches his originally country decades later when he finds great success is itself the real insult here.
  - couchand 13y ago
    That may be the headline but there's a lot more nuance. One of the stronger points made is that no Indian-born Nobel laureate is an Indian citizen.
    - moron4hire 13y ago
      I found the article to be pretty blind to its own classist problems. There is a lot of referring to groups of people, classifying people, without recognizing that the achievements are individual achievements. He is part of the problem that he is complaining about.
    - owenjones 13y ago
      A slap in the face is an aggressive act from one to another, usually intended to inflict pain. I think a better comparison for Indian's success abroad but not at home would be a bucket of cold water or a ringing alarm clock.
CmonDev 13y ago
There is an implicit assumption that he was chosen because he is brilliant. Shouldn't we wait for a couple of months at least?
- parag_c_mehta 13y ago
  Irrespective of his performance as CEO, his past performance has been brilliant, otherwise MSFT wouldn't have promoted him to vice president of Microsoft’s Cloud and Enterprise group. The point raised in article is still valid. I am from India and I know we don't value time, become lazy in our own country. However we become punctual and productive in western countries. Strange but true.
  - moron4hire 13y ago
    that's not so much an Indian thing as it is a not-America, and more specifically not-east-coast-America, thing. Of all the places I have traveled[1], there are few people who are as work oriented, punctual, and surly if you are not, then mid-Atlantic region Americans. Take that for whatever you want. It can be a problem if you are just trying to have a weekend. We don't know how to leave work at work most of the time. But I very much appreciate being serious and focusing on work during regular work hours. one of those big factors that makes most of the places I travel to "nice to visit, but wouldn't want to live there". [1] and granted I haven't traveled every where. I understand Japanese salesmen are like this, too.
- kamakazizuru 13y ago
  usually CXO level people ARE chosen because they have displayed a modicum of brilliance at something... It isn't exactly a lottery system. Plus - you can already look at what he's done with the Azure platform.
  - CmonDev 13y ago
    That makes another assumption that everything is being done in company's best interests, not individual people's interests. A lot of brilliant people has been let go because they had a conflicting vision. Is being more conservative a sign of brilliance? Also Azure is run by Scott Guthrie, but it could also be attributed to Steve Ballmer since he was the CEO when it started.
finishingmove 13y ago
A slap in the face indeed, but not in the way it's presented. I admire the Indian people, and what prompted me to respond here were the comments below that article more than the article itself. They were what I expected to find, "We are pathetic, we are whiners, we are losers.". I used to think the same about my country. Until I realized that decades and centuries of exploitation at the hands of malicious outside forces are what brought us to it. And then it became obvious it was not our fault. I suggest reading "Das Kapital" or even "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism". Hopefully it will help you realize why and how are other nations collecting your intellectual and other assets.
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  Well, unless there are other countries literally wiling to invade yours if you don't let them exploit you, that exploitation is your (colective) fault, and your people are the ones capable of stopping it. If that's the case, just accept that it's up to you to make a better place, and act acordingly. Now, if there are other countries with guns pointed your way, well, people from India can tell you better about that than I can.
- jff 13y ago
  Yeah that sounds about right for a Marxist: "It's all those evil OTHER PEOPLE's fault that we suck! Trust us, it'll be a lot better after the revolution"
argumentum 13y ago
The biggest mistake here is assuming these people wouldn't succeed in India or anywhere else. The IIT & IIM people move here to the US because they are an approximation of "the best" in India. Others come as well, the best doctors have nothing to do with IIT and IIM obviously. The best people are going to succeed nearly anywhere. Obviously Nazi Germany is an exception w/regards to the Jews & others they targeted. But, in my opinion, this actually strengthens the argument .. you literally have to kill the best people if you want them to fail. Of course, the best people also realize they are likely to succeed more in the best places. The USA has been the prime beneficiary throughout history ..
- ben336 13y ago
  > Obviously Nazi Germany is an exception Thats the only exception you can think of? > The USA has been the prime beneficiary throughout history For values of history starting later than the late 1700s :)
dhaneshnm 13y ago
"If Satya Nadella had remained in India,he would probably be working as a coder in Infosys or TCS. Earning a high salary no doubt, but an unlikely candidate for CEO" TCS(Tata Consultancy Services) CEOs, current or past, were not from IITs.
- pritambaral 13y ago
  Not sure I get your point, but Nadella isn't from the IITs
  - gnufied 13y ago
    I think what he is implying is, Nadella had a good chance of becoming CEO of TCS and not mere coder as the picture the article is trying to paint. Afterall current CEO of TCS is from NIT Tricy who was hired straight from campus and rose all the way to CEO position.
- kamaal 13y ago
  Are you serious? Nandan Nilekani was hired at Infosys as a programmer. He ultimately went on to become the CEO.
  - dhaneshnm 13y ago
    The line in quotes is from the article. I was trying to counter it by citing TCS CEOs were not IITians. I should have made it more explicit.
balladeer 13y ago
> The short point: our system is designed to keep people out, not get them in. The true value of an IIT or IIM is not the intellectual capital they produce, but their filtering expertise > This is almost holistically true in case of those institutes mentioned or the elk. Even their testing methods lack any kind of innovative or creative examination. It's based purely on rote.
smoyer 13y ago
Harsh ... I know that the bureaucracy you describe is well-entrenched (and I guess has to be dealt with by the "business guy" in a start-up), but what how can an Indian software start-up ignore that heritage to get a leg up?
mirmali 13y ago
This is a typical 'Election Cycle' article that you will see in Indian Media these days. Do not fall for anything that the author says. If you read past the first two paragraphs you will notice a distinct theme; supporting a particular political party while dissing the current political power in India.
mastersk3 13y ago
Time and time again I wonder if i should laugh at the absurdity of such articles this or worry about the excessive, obsessive usage of the word Indian.
- sremani 13y ago
  Indian - the closest thing to that word is European. We do not speak the same language, eat the same food, our culture is as diverse as that of Europe - but the fake homogeneity the word Indian brings bother me a lot.
Spooky23 13y ago
The article makes a good point, but people like symbols -- they help to compress the complexities of life and make the bigger point. The idea that someone like you -- either nationally, ethnically or by some other characteristic can achieve something so big can be inspirational. That's a good thing. Just to put it in a personal perspective, when my grandmother learned about my first big promotion as a "bigshot computer guy", it brought her to tears. To her, it was reinforcement that our family had "made it". She originally came from an agricultural background -- to her, I was a superstar. Kids in India now have another source of inspiration. Not a bad thing.
marshally 13y ago
The headline is inflammatory linkbait. The article context is thoughtful, introspective, and focused mainly on what India could change internally to be more inclusive and help give people a leg up. It is disappointing that the headline is drawing the online discussion away from the meat of the article. But such is linkbait.
mkartic 13y ago
Comparing IIT/IIM entrance exams to caste system is a very cheap shot. IITs are no more exclusionists than Harvard or MIT. Its the country's premier place for education, so everyone is going to want to study there.
- gohrt 13y ago
  I, for one, believe that Harvard/MIT/Stanford have a habit of "picking winners" not in line with egalitarian meritocracy (promoting those willing and able to learn), a system for "converting privilege to credentials" as is said -- witness the bias in tech company hiring practices, and the classic "management consulting" culture, where CEOs and government leaders higher newly-minted Ivy grads to rubber-stamp the leader's choices and provide cover for their decisions.
  - hga 13y ago
    I'm not at all familiar with Stanford's admissions system, but lumping in MIT's with the official Ivies is bogus. MIT does no legacy admits, because the core curriculum required of all students is so much harder, e.g. lots of calculus and physics, vs. Harvard in the '80s requiring you to prove you can do algebra. So MIT doesn't admit anyone they don't think can "do the work". although if you make that cut I'm sure it doesn't hurt to be the child of an alum, but it didn't come up all that often in the '80s at least. MIT specifically looks for evidence that applicants can do projects. Beyond that, as far as I can remember they're pretty generic in trying to construct a class (trying since yield, acceptances of admission offers, is very hard to predict), favoring the things every high end college looks for such as geographic diversity (both of those helped me a lot). So the very first thing strongly aligns with the school's goal of overall being an "egalitarian meritocracy"; what you do and can do is where it's at. MIT students do not as a rule aspire to be lower tier corporate yes-men.
- kamaal 13y ago
  >>Comparing IIT/IIM entrance exams to caste system is a very cheap shot. Why? Caste system survived because an exclusivity principle was employed to keep the lower caste's out of systems which could benefit them on the longer run like education, employment, religious institutions.
wil421 13y ago
Fix government corruption and the countries infrastructure and maybe people will start migrating to India instead of away.
donniezazen 13y ago
It reminds me of the article published a few days ago on why the author doesn't trade in stocks. The reason was following. "It's going to go up!" I say same is true for India. India hasn't reached it's high yet.
thinkpad20 13y ago
I see a lot of parallels here with the Japanese system. Similarly, the system seems to encourage conformism and rote learning over disruptive ideas and innovation. Similarly, their top universities have phenomenally competitive admissions, even though they are not ranked particularly high internationally. Similarly, many of their systems are characterized by endless paperwork and bureaucracy. Of course, there are certainly innumerable ways in which the two countries diverge. Japan has been economically far more successful in the last few centuries, and has a very respectable number of Nobel laureates, most of whom have remained in Japan. But I do think a lot of the criticism of India leveled here is applicable there. (Source: I lived there for a few years and am reasonably culturally/linguistically fluent)
- bane 13y ago
  As an outsider, it looks like India is trying very hard to figure out a path to success. But, probably for historical reasons, it's looking for a path to a Western U.S./Britain model of success rather than East Asian Japan/South Korea/Singapore/Hong Kong model. I don't know which makes more sense for India to look towards, but I wonder if a New Delhi that looks more like Seoul than London makes more sense and if modeling a future path on established paths to success and growth is a better idea. There may be more cultural similarities (for example, the social difficulties of coming out of deeply entrenched caste system, a deep respect for education, etc.) and adapting the same patterns for India's local conditions might work better For example, building an export driven economy like Japan and Korea did, has resulted in unbelievable economic growth, advanced technology, and global respect. By and large those countries are also able to retain talent, build sufficient educational institutions to train that talent, have enough local economic opportunities for that talent to make money, and have a vibrant enough economy to allow them to spend that money locally. It seems to me that many of the basic pieces are there for India to follow those models, and with a massive and cheap labor pool (one of the main requirements for this to work), make it happen.
- vagarwa 13y ago
  My view - The biggest difference is the underlying system (law, bureaucracy and even infrastructure)still being used in India is the one built to extract and export resources out as efficiently as possible. That's the legacy of 150 years of colonialism and Indians simply have never been able to do the challenging work (various reasons) of changing these but for a few word changes here and there. This is most stark in nation's civil and police services.
grannyg00se 13y ago
Isn't this just a matter of being in the best environment for what you are trying to achieve? Is it a slap in the face to Canadian arts and culture every time an actor leaves and moves to LA? There are some realities involved and doing what's best for yourself shouldn't be interpreted as some personal attack against your culture. There should be no expectation that your country of origin would get preferential treatment when weighing the options.
- couchand 13y ago
  I don't think the author is expecting any special treatment, but rather questioning why the local option seems so dead-end to so many young go-getters.
karunr 13y ago
I am a 1987 Manipal Institute of technology graduate. MIT Manipal may not be mentioned in the same breath as the IIT's but is (or used to be) in the top 100 engineering colleges in India. It is private and is much more expensive though I believe it was much more affordable to middle class families in the 1970s and 80s than it is today.
Beliavsky 13y ago
The article's criticism of IIT and IIM (elite Indian universities) could be made of the elite U.S. schools too: "The short point: our system is designed to keep people out, not get them in. The true value of an IIT or IIM is not the intellectual capital they produce, but their filtering expertise – which keeps all but the superlisters out of these institutions. When the people entering the institution are the best among the best, they will shine no matter what the quality of faculty or the curriculum."
- Guvante 13y ago
  Not to mention when it is that hard to get in it becomes difficult to really test your students. Thus you end up with graduating from an Ivy League school basically meaning got into an Ivy League school.
random42 13y ago
What a content-less piece of link-bait fluff! To me, the article boils down to.. 1. Find a large system (India) 2. Find "issues" within the system (Brain drain in a densely populated country with limited resources, caste system, not being able to compete with first world countries in cutting edge research/capitalistic economy, people's deeply routed perspective etc.), all of which are non-trivial to fix. Such non-trivial will exist in any "real" (not theoretical) large system. Wishing them away magically is kidding oneself. 3. Rant about them. 4. Do not provide either insights on why the issues exists OR the way forward to tackle them. Pretty mediocre article, IMHO, which does what arm-chair critiques do best — criticism.
mhb 13y ago
Private Schooling In India: Results from a Randomized Trial: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/02/private-schooling-in-india-results-from-a-randomized-trial.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/02/pri...
denzil_correa 13y ago
The issue is claiming credit for being "Indian" when it has been the US system that should be credited for the same. Sure, you can feel proud that an ordinary run of the mill guy from your country has reached this position but that's that.
berto99 13y ago
Respect Indians, however clean up the stupid cast system.
crusso 13y ago
While Indian newspapers were over the moon about Nadella’s elevation Racism/nationalism fail #1.
mathattack 13y ago
I view this differently. He found a non-traditional way. He didn't go to IIT. He didn't go to the top engineering school in the US. He got his MBA part time. But he found a way. I am very bullish on Nadella. He's not a lock to succeed, but he has a fighting chance, which is a lot more than I can say for most of the other candidates mentioned. (The CEO from Ford could probably run GE or 3M too, but the only thing he could do at Microsoft is dismantle it.)
staticfish 13y ago
Is it me, or does this situation reek of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't"?
amaks 13y ago
>> While Indian newspapers were over the moon about Nadella’s elevation, with some justification, there is another side to the story we need to consider: why is it that India’s tech and other geniuses flower only in the US or Silicon Valley? The assignment of Nadella to CEO role appears to be a very smart move from Microsoft board for many reasons: 1) He's not involved into scandalous business decisions as Elop 2) He's internal candidate and been in Microsoft for 22 years 3) He's Ballmer's man, and 4) Ballmer and Gates are still on Microsoft board, so no uncomfortable decisions and surprises for MS board from the new CEO. 5) He's Indian, which brings even more diversity to Microsoft LT. Given all of the above, I doubt any drastic and revolutionary changes will happen at MS.
- shortsightedsid 13y ago
  I seriously doubt #5 has anything to do with it. Considering that he has been in the U.S his entire Adult life (i.e old enough to make his own choices), one can characterize him as American rather than Indian.
jrmenon 13y ago
Interesting debate.....when I see the comments here, I am reminded of this most-probably a misunderstood book by Francis Fukuyama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last... It is a must-read esp. if you are inclined towards cultural determinism. IMO, he seems to persuasively argue against all that, and provide good counter-points on how people can change over time.
hammad999 13y ago
I'm an Indian, recently graduated from Bangalore and I cannot agree more with this post. I am fortunate enough to realize what to do in life and not follow the herd as almost every engineer does in India. From among 60 electronics & communication engineers who graduated with me 40 are working for Infosys and wipro in IT departments! Why study Electronics if you want to end up coding? It's not like one thinks what she wants it's more like 'I just want to end up employed'. There is no question of passion. Students are forced to take up engineering or medicine. Parents don't give a fuck about the child's talents and all they care is his grades. It's sad and this should change.
TheMagicHorsey 13y ago
Patriotism and Nationalism, ever popular amongst morons and the cynical sociopaths that would manipulate them.

178 points by ghosh 13y ago

Since it isn't explained in the article: IIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology IIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management

dhaneshnm 13y ago
It is interesting that, Nadella is from Manipal Institute and not a product of "elite" IIT/IIM system. It is rare to see an Indian born techie, doing well abroad, not from the IIT/IIM system.
- middleclick 13y ago
  Another exception to this is Shantanu Narayen (Adobe CEO) who is not from IIT/IIM.
- e15ctr0n 13y ago
  Sanjay Jha, former CEO of Motorola Mobility and current CEO of GlobalFoundries, is also not from IIT/IIM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjay_Jha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjay_Jha
- kamaal 13y ago
  >> It is rare to see an Indian born techie, doing well abroad, not from the IIT/IIM system. That's just plain untrue. The problem is IIT alumnus works double time to do their marketing. The IIT entrance exams are super difficult to ensure only the most hard working of all India gets through. This inturn creates a situation where you have all that good people at one place. Its but other wise obvious they do well. But to say the ordinary Indian doesn't do well is plain wrong. Today's India was built by ordinary guys. The IIT'ians well most of them contribute to the growth of countries like US, not India.
_nedR 13y ago
"99 percent of Indian aspirants to get admissions even to an IIT or IIM, but it is far simpler to get into an Ivy League institution. If you don’t get into an IIM, you try Harvard." It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. IIT is definitely hard at the Undergraduate level (and harder than any US institution) primarily due to the sheer number of students trying to get in. The coursework is also pretty tough. Vinod Khosla( a co-founder of Sun Microsystems) said that after doing his undergrad in IIT Delhi, higher studies in Carnegie Mellon and Stanford were just a cakewalk.
- r0h1n 13y ago
  > It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. Last year 1,73,735 candidates took the CAT admission test through which the IIMs admit 3,335 MBA students. That's a 1:52 ratio. Now you could argue that not everyone who takes the CAT is an IIM applicant. So let's take IIM Ahmedabad's (slightly dated) data for 2006-08 admission [1]. Of the 1,44,027 who applied to the institute, 273 secured an admission. That's a 1:527 ratio. Harvard Business School's admissions:applications ratio is 1:12 [2] I'm sure you have an explanation of why a 1:527 ratio is "not that hard". [0] http://www.business-standard.com/article/management/boys-rule-cat-results-114011400888_1.html http://www.business-standard.com/article/management/boys-rul... [1] http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/institute/about/key-facts/institute-statistics.html http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/institute/about/key-facts/institu... [2] http://www.hbs.edu/about/facts-and-figures/Pages/mba-statistics.aspx http://www.hbs.edu/about/facts-and-figures/Pages/mba-statist...
  - pavs 13y ago
    I can't help but notice you guys are ignoring the fact that india has a huge population. In the context of indian population does this numbers really look that impressive? Doesn't it also mean that there are not enough highly sought after institutions like IIM or IIT?
  - enscr 13y ago
    A caveat : The pool of IIM or IIT aspirants is a very low signal to noise ratio. It's not just that they are hard to get into, it's the number of people who aren't prepared for it but still pony up the entrance fee. I'm sure that's not the case with Ivy leagues.

mhurron 13y ago

“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.

nodata 13y ago
I understand your point, but for the olympics in particular you are saying something different: that someone's training and environment and opportunities in a particular country are meaningless.
- falcolas 13y ago
  Given how many Olympians abandon the country they represent to train, it is somewhat meaningless. Seriously, if there's one thing I've learned from watching the Olympics, it's that many of the successful ones are enabled by their ability to move away from their place of birth, well, that and good genetics.
  - nodata 13y ago
    Well there you go then: the place where they were born determines their drive or ability to move away from their place of birth. It's not random.
pratkar 13y ago
George Carlin eh?
shrikant 13y ago
I strongly agree with this. Nationalist pride is the Kool-Aid peddled by government and society to get you to conform to their respective agendas and keep you from questioning the stupid shit they get up to. And I really don't mean to come off as a pothead going "It's all a giant conspiracy man!"...
- 13y ago

quchen 13y ago

Statistically, it compares the single case of Nadella to the statistical blob of people that is the "Indian system". Tough comparison when there are a billion of Indians, and the other dozen examples given don't change that. Politically, it calls the US not being nationalist (or at least hostile towards Indians in particular) in this case a "slap in the face". Just no.

moron4hire 13y ago
My feeling exactly. The idea that one man's decision to live and work in another country besmirches his originally country decades later when he finds great success is itself the real insult here.
- couchand 13y ago
  That may be the headline but there's a lot more nuance. One of the stronger points made is that no Indian-born Nobel laureate is an Indian citizen.
  - moron4hire 13y ago
    I found the article to be pretty blind to its own classist problems. There is a lot of referring to groups of people, classifying people, without recognizing that the achievements are individual achievements. He is part of the problem that he is complaining about.
  - owenjones 13y ago
    A slap in the face is an aggressive act from one to another, usually intended to inflict pain. I think a better comparison for Indian's success abroad but not at home would be a bucket of cold water or a ringing alarm clock.

CmonDev 13y ago

There is an implicit assumption that he was chosen because he is brilliant. Shouldn't we wait for a couple of months at least?

parag_c_mehta 13y ago
Irrespective of his performance as CEO, his past performance has been brilliant, otherwise MSFT wouldn't have promoted him to vice president of Microsoft’s Cloud and Enterprise group. The point raised in article is still valid. I am from India and I know we don't value time, become lazy in our own country. However we become punctual and productive in western countries. Strange but true.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  that's not so much an Indian thing as it is a not-America, and more specifically not-east-coast-America, thing. Of all the places I have traveled[1], there are few people who are as work oriented, punctual, and surly if you are not, then mid-Atlantic region Americans. Take that for whatever you want. It can be a problem if you are just trying to have a weekend. We don't know how to leave work at work most of the time. But I very much appreciate being serious and focusing on work during regular work hours. one of those big factors that makes most of the places I travel to "nice to visit, but wouldn't want to live there". [1] and granted I haven't traveled every where. I understand Japanese salesmen are like this, too.
kamakazizuru 13y ago
usually CXO level people ARE chosen because they have displayed a modicum of brilliance at something... It isn't exactly a lottery system. Plus - you can already look at what he's done with the Azure platform.
- CmonDev 13y ago
  That makes another assumption that everything is being done in company's best interests, not individual people's interests. A lot of brilliant people has been let go because they had a conflicting vision. Is being more conservative a sign of brilliance? Also Azure is run by Scott Guthrie, but it could also be attributed to Steve Ballmer since he was the CEO when it started.

finishingmove 13y ago

A slap in the face indeed, but not in the way it's presented. I admire the Indian people, and what prompted me to respond here were the comments below that article more than the article itself. They were what I expected to find, "We are pathetic, we are whiners, we are losers.". I used to think the same about my country. Until I realized that decades and centuries of exploitation at the hands of malicious outside forces are what brought us to it. And then it became obvious it was not our fault. I suggest reading "Das Kapital" or even "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism". Hopefully it will help you realize why and how are other nations collecting your intellectual and other assets.

marcosdumay 13y ago
Well, unless there are other countries literally wiling to invade yours if you don't let them exploit you, that exploitation is your (colective) fault, and your people are the ones capable of stopping it. If that's the case, just accept that it's up to you to make a better place, and act acordingly. Now, if there are other countries with guns pointed your way, well, people from India can tell you better about that than I can.
jff 13y ago
Yeah that sounds about right for a Marxist: "It's all those evil OTHER PEOPLE's fault that we suck! Trust us, it'll be a lot better after the revolution"

argumentum 13y ago

The biggest mistake here is assuming these people wouldn't succeed in India or anywhere else. The IIT & IIM people move here to the US because they are an approximation of "the best" in India. Others come as well, the best doctors have nothing to do with IIT and IIM obviously. The best people are going to succeed nearly anywhere. Obviously Nazi Germany is an exception w/regards to the Jews & others they targeted. But, in my opinion, this actually strengthens the argument .. you literally have to kill the best people if you want them to fail. Of course, the best people also realize they are likely to succeed more in the best places. The USA has been the prime beneficiary throughout history ..

ben336 13y ago
> Obviously Nazi Germany is an exception Thats the only exception you can think of? > The USA has been the prime beneficiary throughout history For values of history starting later than the late 1700s :)

dhaneshnm 13y ago

"If Satya Nadella had remained in India,he would probably be working as a coder in Infosys or TCS. Earning a high salary no doubt, but an unlikely candidate for CEO" TCS(Tata Consultancy Services) CEOs, current or past, were not from IITs.

pritambaral 13y ago
Not sure I get your point, but Nadella isn't from the IITs
- gnufied 13y ago
  I think what he is implying is, Nadella had a good chance of becoming CEO of TCS and not mere coder as the picture the article is trying to paint. Afterall current CEO of TCS is from NIT Tricy who was hired straight from campus and rose all the way to CEO position.
kamaal 13y ago
Are you serious? Nandan Nilekani was hired at Infosys as a programmer. He ultimately went on to become the CEO.
- dhaneshnm 13y ago
  The line in quotes is from the article. I was trying to counter it by citing TCS CEOs were not IITians. I should have made it more explicit.

balladeer 13y ago

> The short point: our system is designed to keep people out, not get them in. The true value of an IIT or IIM is not the intellectual capital they produce, but their filtering expertise > This is almost holistically true in case of those institutes mentioned or the elk. Even their testing methods lack any kind of innovative or creative examination. It's based purely on rote.

smoyer 13y ago

Harsh ... I know that the bureaucracy you describe is well-entrenched (and I guess has to be dealt with by the "business guy" in a start-up), but what how can an Indian software start-up ignore that heritage to get a leg up?

mirmali 13y ago

This is a typical 'Election Cycle' article that you will see in Indian Media these days. Do not fall for anything that the author says. If you read past the first two paragraphs you will notice a distinct theme; supporting a particular political party while dissing the current political power in India.

mastersk3 13y ago

Time and time again I wonder if i should laugh at the absurdity of such articles this or worry about the excessive, obsessive usage of the word Indian.

sremani 13y ago
Indian - the closest thing to that word is European. We do not speak the same language, eat the same food, our culture is as diverse as that of Europe - but the fake homogeneity the word Indian brings bother me a lot.

Spooky23 13y ago

The article makes a good point, but people like symbols -- they help to compress the complexities of life and make the bigger point. The idea that someone like you -- either nationally, ethnically or by some other characteristic can achieve something so big can be inspirational. That's a good thing. Just to put it in a personal perspective, when my grandmother learned about my first big promotion as a "bigshot computer guy", it brought her to tears. To her, it was reinforcement that our family had "made it". She originally came from an agricultural background -- to her, I was a superstar. Kids in India now have another source of inspiration. Not a bad thing.

marshally 13y ago

The headline is inflammatory linkbait. The article context is thoughtful, introspective, and focused mainly on what India could change internally to be more inclusive and help give people a leg up. It is disappointing that the headline is drawing the online discussion away from the meat of the article. But such is linkbait.

mkartic 13y ago

Comparing IIT/IIM entrance exams to caste system is a very cheap shot. IITs are no more exclusionists than Harvard or MIT. Its the country's premier place for education, so everyone is going to want to study there.

gohrt 13y ago
I, for one, believe that Harvard/MIT/Stanford have a habit of "picking winners" not in line with egalitarian meritocracy (promoting those willing and able to learn), a system for "converting privilege to credentials" as is said -- witness the bias in tech company hiring practices, and the classic "management consulting" culture, where CEOs and government leaders higher newly-minted Ivy grads to rubber-stamp the leader's choices and provide cover for their decisions.
- hga 13y ago
  I'm not at all familiar with Stanford's admissions system, but lumping in MIT's with the official Ivies is bogus. MIT does no legacy admits, because the core curriculum required of all students is so much harder, e.g. lots of calculus and physics, vs. Harvard in the '80s requiring you to prove you can do algebra. So MIT doesn't admit anyone they don't think can "do the work". although if you make that cut I'm sure it doesn't hurt to be the child of an alum, but it didn't come up all that often in the '80s at least. MIT specifically looks for evidence that applicants can do projects. Beyond that, as far as I can remember they're pretty generic in trying to construct a class (trying since yield, acceptances of admission offers, is very hard to predict), favoring the things every high end college looks for such as geographic diversity (both of those helped me a lot). So the very first thing strongly aligns with the school's goal of overall being an "egalitarian meritocracy"; what you do and can do is where it's at. MIT students do not as a rule aspire to be lower tier corporate yes-men.
kamaal 13y ago
>>Comparing IIT/IIM entrance exams to caste system is a very cheap shot. Why? Caste system survived because an exclusivity principle was employed to keep the lower caste's out of systems which could benefit them on the longer run like education, employment, religious institutions.

wil421 13y ago

Fix government corruption and the countries infrastructure and maybe people will start migrating to India instead of away.

donniezazen 13y ago

It reminds me of the article published a few days ago on why the author doesn't trade in stocks. The reason was following. "It's going to go up!" I say same is true for India. India hasn't reached it's high yet.

thinkpad20 13y ago

I see a lot of parallels here with the Japanese system. Similarly, the system seems to encourage conformism and rote learning over disruptive ideas and innovation. Similarly, their top universities have phenomenally competitive admissions, even though they are not ranked particularly high internationally. Similarly, many of their systems are characterized by endless paperwork and bureaucracy. Of course, there are certainly innumerable ways in which the two countries diverge. Japan has been economically far more successful in the last few centuries, and has a very respectable number of Nobel laureates, most of whom have remained in Japan. But I do think a lot of the criticism of India leveled here is applicable there. (Source: I lived there for a few years and am reasonably culturally/linguistically fluent)

bane 13y ago
As an outsider, it looks like India is trying very hard to figure out a path to success. But, probably for historical reasons, it's looking for a path to a Western U.S./Britain model of success rather than East Asian Japan/South Korea/Singapore/Hong Kong model. I don't know which makes more sense for India to look towards, but I wonder if a New Delhi that looks more like Seoul than London makes more sense and if modeling a future path on established paths to success and growth is a better idea. There may be more cultural similarities (for example, the social difficulties of coming out of deeply entrenched caste system, a deep respect for education, etc.) and adapting the same patterns for India's local conditions might work better For example, building an export driven economy like Japan and Korea did, has resulted in unbelievable economic growth, advanced technology, and global respect. By and large those countries are also able to retain talent, build sufficient educational institutions to train that talent, have enough local economic opportunities for that talent to make money, and have a vibrant enough economy to allow them to spend that money locally. It seems to me that many of the basic pieces are there for India to follow those models, and with a massive and cheap labor pool (one of the main requirements for this to work), make it happen.
vagarwa 13y ago
My view - The biggest difference is the underlying system (law, bureaucracy and even infrastructure)still being used in India is the one built to extract and export resources out as efficiently as possible. That's the legacy of 150 years of colonialism and Indians simply have never been able to do the challenging work (various reasons) of changing these but for a few word changes here and there. This is most stark in nation's civil and police services.

grannyg00se 13y ago

Isn't this just a matter of being in the best environment for what you are trying to achieve? Is it a slap in the face to Canadian arts and culture every time an actor leaves and moves to LA? There are some realities involved and doing what's best for yourself shouldn't be interpreted as some personal attack against your culture. There should be no expectation that your country of origin would get preferential treatment when weighing the options.

couchand 13y ago
I don't think the author is expecting any special treatment, but rather questioning why the local option seems so dead-end to so many young go-getters.

karunr 13y ago

I am a 1987 Manipal Institute of technology graduate. MIT Manipal may not be mentioned in the same breath as the IIT's but is (or used to be) in the top 100 engineering colleges in India. It is private and is much more expensive though I believe it was much more affordable to middle class families in the 1970s and 80s than it is today.

Beliavsky 13y ago

The article's criticism of IIT and IIM (elite Indian universities) could be made of the elite U.S. schools too: "The short point: our system is designed to keep people out, not get them in. The true value of an IIT or IIM is not the intellectual capital they produce, but their filtering expertise – which keeps all but the superlisters out of these institutions. When the people entering the institution are the best among the best, they will shine no matter what the quality of faculty or the curriculum."

Guvante 13y ago
Not to mention when it is that hard to get in it becomes difficult to really test your students. Thus you end up with graduating from an Ivy League school basically meaning got into an Ivy League school.

random42 13y ago

What a content-less piece of link-bait fluff! To me, the article boils down to.. 1. Find a large system (India) 2. Find "issues" within the system (Brain drain in a densely populated country with limited resources, caste system, not being able to compete with first world countries in cutting edge research/capitalistic economy, people's deeply routed perspective etc.), all of which are non-trivial to fix. Such non-trivial will exist in any "real" (not theoretical) large system. Wishing them away magically is kidding oneself. 3. Rant about them. 4. Do not provide either insights on why the issues exists OR the way forward to tackle them. Pretty mediocre article, IMHO, which does what arm-chair critiques do best — criticism.

mhb 13y ago

Private Schooling In India: Results from a Randomized Trial: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/02/private-schooling-in-india-results-from-a-randomized-trial.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/02/pri...

denzil_correa 13y ago

The issue is claiming credit for being "Indian" when it has been the US system that should be credited for the same. Sure, you can feel proud that an ordinary run of the mill guy from your country has reached this position but that's that.

berto99 13y ago

Respect Indians, however clean up the stupid cast system.

crusso 13y ago

While Indian newspapers were over the moon about Nadella’s elevation Racism/nationalism fail #1.

mathattack 13y ago

I view this differently. He found a non-traditional way. He didn't go to IIT. He didn't go to the top engineering school in the US. He got his MBA part time. But he found a way. I am very bullish on Nadella. He's not a lock to succeed, but he has a fighting chance, which is a lot more than I can say for most of the other candidates mentioned. (The CEO from Ford could probably run GE or 3M too, but the only thing he could do at Microsoft is dismantle it.)

staticfish 13y ago

Is it me, or does this situation reek of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't"?

amaks 13y ago

>> While Indian newspapers were over the moon about Nadella’s elevation, with some justification, there is another side to the story we need to consider: why is it that India’s tech and other geniuses flower only in the US or Silicon Valley? The assignment of Nadella to CEO role appears to be a very smart move from Microsoft board for many reasons: 1) He's not involved into scandalous business decisions as Elop 2) He's internal candidate and been in Microsoft for 22 years 3) He's Ballmer's man, and 4) Ballmer and Gates are still on Microsoft board, so no uncomfortable decisions and surprises for MS board from the new CEO. 5) He's Indian, which brings even more diversity to Microsoft LT. Given all of the above, I doubt any drastic and revolutionary changes will happen at MS.

shortsightedsid 13y ago
I seriously doubt #5 has anything to do with it. Considering that he has been in the U.S his entire Adult life (i.e old enough to make his own choices), one can characterize him as American rather than Indian.

jrmenon 13y ago

Interesting debate.....when I see the comments here, I am reminded of this most-probably a misunderstood book by Francis Fukuyama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last... It is a must-read esp. if you are inclined towards cultural determinism. IMO, he seems to persuasively argue against all that, and provide good counter-points on how people can change over time.

hammad999 13y ago

I'm an Indian, recently graduated from Bangalore and I cannot agree more with this post. I am fortunate enough to realize what to do in life and not follow the herd as almost every engineer does in India. From among 60 electronics & communication engineers who graduated with me 40 are working for Infosys and wipro in IT departments! Why study Electronics if you want to end up coding? It's not like one thinks what she wants it's more like 'I just want to end up employed'. There is no question of passion. Students are forced to take up engineering or medicine. Parents don't give a fuck about the child's talents and all they care is his grades. It's sad and this should change.

TheMagicHorsey 13y ago

Patriotism and Nationalism, ever popular amongst morons and the cynical sociopaths that would manipulate them.