22 ms·

4K is for programmers

• avighnay 13y ago
  It is definitely a productivity booster for devs. However if your software audience includes low res users (enterprises, accessibility etc.) ensure that design/layout testing for low res usability does not become an afterthought. We have had this oversight in our team a few times.
• catmanjan 13y ago
  Very tempting! Unfortunately I like to have my monitors close to my face, so I think the large size of the television may cause viewing angle problems.
  • erikig 13y ago
    I thought the same thing but now that I have the Seiki it is very similar to having 4 x 20" 1080p monitors. The view angle is decent as long as you place the monitor about 2-3 feet away.
• cma 13y ago
  I'd say up to about 42in 4k monitors are for programmers, between that an about 8 feet, 4k is a gimmick--4k projectors are for couch potatoes. 4k VR headsets will cover everyone.
  • bhauer 13y ago
    Of these, I feel the least certain about VR headsets. I've not yet tried one so I remain skeptical. But I agree, if a terrific VR headset hits the market, that would be compelling.
• jmgrosen 13y ago
  Does anyone know if the 15" 2012 MBPR (that is, MacBookPro10,1) supports 4K with its HDMI output under Mavericks? Of course, it will only be 30Hz, but that's tolerable.
  • daeken 13y ago
    From what I can tell (running the same unit you are), only the 2013 rMBPs will drive 4k panels. Would love to be wrong on that, though.
    • phamilton 13y ago
      I've got an early 2013 rMBP with the NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M and it drives 4k at 30 Hz over HDMI.
      • dustyleary 13y ago
        Can you reply with your Model Identifier? Click the Apple icon in the top left of the menu bar, choose "About This Mac", click "More Info", click "System Report", and on the first screen ("Hardware Overview"), the Model Identifier will be displayed. Mine is "MacBookPro10,1". I would love to verify that it is capable of driving these 4k displays, if you wouldn't mind checking.
        • phamilton 13y ago
          MacBookPro10,1
      • jmgrosen 13y ago
        Huh. Apparently that one's identical to Mid 2012 except for a tiny improvement in CPU, so that sounds promising. Thanks!
      • shurcooL 13y ago
        Thanks for confirming!
    • FootballMuse 13y ago
      My 2012 (MacBookPro10,1) works with Mavericks out of the box. I use SwitchRezX to get it up to 31Hz.
  • wyager 13y ago
• Buge 13y ago
  Part of the problem might be gamers not having powerful enough machines and not wanting a blurry image from scaling.
  • catmanjan 13y ago
    I think PC gamers would find the 30Hz much more of a disincentive. I think most console games are used to 24 fps anyway, but they don't even have the option to reach that resolution (yet?)
    • ssully 13y ago
      Yup, 30hz would be a no go. And I am pretty sure Sony has said the ps4 is able to play video at 4k, but has no intentions for games at that resolution. Hell games for both systems aren't even 1080p across the board.
• adriancooney 13y ago
  A 39-inch monitor? I'd feel pretty intimidated by such a beast at close-quarters. The extra real estate would be handy but the constant glare from all angles attacking my peripheral vision would be relentless. Nice to see some 4K adoption however.
  • grayrest 13y ago
    It's not that bad. I had a pair of 30" monitors in an open floor office and I really liked the setup precisely because I wasn't distracted by watching everybody walk around behind my monitors. The people who disliked it simply used a dark background/editor scheme and kept the browser window towards the center.
• qwerta 13y ago
  I had 4k for years (4x 22" displays in pivot mode). It really improves productivity on complex tasks such as debugging. Soon I will upgrade to 3x Dell P2815Q with 6480x3840 resolution.
  • pizza 13y ago
    That's the same number of pixels as 12 1080p monitors. Isn't there some level of diminishing returns after about, say, half that resolution? Just curious.
    • potatolicious 13y ago
      In terms of sheer workspace? Probably, but then you can dedicate the excess pixels to increasing pixel density and making things easier to read. After getting used to the high-DPI displays in tablets and phones I have to admit, desktop text rendering has become very notably lacking.
      • qwerta 13y ago
        I usually use one window per display. First display is for code navigation, 2nd and 3th for code windows and 4th for documentation and notes. Also decent window manager with hotkeys and scripting helps (KWin on Linux) I practically never use alt tab :-)
      • XorNot 13y ago
        It's not just that - you can read very small text on a high DPI display. I'm consistently amazed that I can basically read HN without zooming on my S4 despite it being tiny compared to my desktop (but the same resolution pixel wise). That's a big benefit for when you want to keep an eye on some debug output but not work on it directly, or quickly parse big sections of text.
    • qwerta 13y ago
      My current setup is 4x22" at 1050x1620. I originally started with two displays, but kept adding over years. I think each display increases productivity by half of previous (2nd display adds 50%, 3th adds 25% and 4th 12.5%). My secondary screens are slightly damaged (dead pixels, scratches...) so they cost peanuts. The real limit is electricity bill. Also with such large setup you need good light balance. I always use inverse color scheme (light on dark background). For example I even filter web page colors. I am upgrading because my laptop and phone has retina display and I love it. Also LED displays should have lower energy consumption compared to my ancient displays.
• GigabyteCoin 13y ago
  This is quite the opinionated "article". "4k isn't for couch potatoes", "you should buy a $500 monitor", "if you are programming on something so old, [you suck]", etc... I am fairly surprised to see this style of wording upvoted to the top of HN, actually.
  • bhauer 13y ago
    I took this as a bit ironic because my writing style was tamer in years past and I feel it has become more blunt (to use another euphemism) since I started reading more Hacker News postings. But yes, it's opinionated. I'm quite strongly of the opinion that in general larger desktop displays increase productivity. They are finally arriving, and at prices that are almost affordable. With several important caveats and weaknesses that cannot be ignored, the market is finally moving in a direction that I applaud. So this blog entry/rant is a form of celebration.
    • GigabyteCoin 13y ago
      Hey, no worries! There is a time and place for everything. I am not criticizing your writing style. I just found it odd to find one like it at the top of HN is all.
      • bhauer 13y ago
        You and me both. Not that I'm complaining. :)
      • xmlninja 13y ago
        Because this kind of writing style makes people with different opinions frustrated which leads to discussions and debates. I actually like it. It reminds me of kenrockwell.com
        • hkmurakami 13y ago
          A debate without the accompanying upvotes would trigger the flamewar penalty though.
• johndriscoll 13y ago
  This seems like flaunting your budget more than improving your environment. Maybe I just need to get my eyes checked again, but for some reason my code just doesn't perform any better or write itself any faster with more screen real estate and I'm as productive on my laptop as I am on my big screen. 4K is not for programmers, code is for programmers.
  • maxk42 13y ago
    Well said. I wrote code back on a 640x480 just as easily as I now write code on my 1080p. The only differences in productivity have come from me, as a programmer.
  • catmanjan 13y ago
    What sort of programming do you do? Doing web development in VS2010+ feels very cramped on anything less than 2 1080p monitors for me.
    • johndriscoll 13y ago
      "What sort of programming do you do?" Waddya got? When I do web dev, I prefer a fullscreen terminal for editing and a virtual desktop with a fullscreen browser for proofing.
  • interpol_p 13y ago
    I find I am much more productive at home (1x 30" monitor + laptop display) then I am at work (1x 24" 1080 monitor + laptop display). The screen size absolutely makes a difference when you are working on a large project with lots of disparate pieces. When you jump between project-wide search, debugging, showing git diffs, and so on. This is especially true if you do graphics work and code. When you need to move graphics assets around your filesystem and into your IDE it's nice to have the room (i.e., not so many overlapping windows) so you don't spend time digging for assets, resizing assets, running scripts over assets. I consider myself very productive on just my laptop screen, but sometimes I postpone large architectural changes or heavy instruments based debugging sessions until I get home. There's less back-and-forth and a considerable speedup under certain workloads.
• Bitwse 13y ago
  Interesting. Seeing as I mainly work with Macbook Pros, I would love to know what macbooks currently support this display. Unfortunately, I don't think my late 2011 macbook would support this else I would buy the monitor in a heartbeat :/
• Fomite 13y ago
  What about couch potato programmers? That strikes me as a pretty sizable market segment.
• XorNot 13y ago
  "Seiki is missing a golden opportunity to dominate the desktop display market by removing the television tuner, speakers, and remote, and then reallocating that budget to a 60Hz or better input (HDMI 2 and/or DisplayPort), a matte screen surface, and instant-on DPMI support, all the while retaining the market-wrecking price." And while we're at it, I want a unicorn as well! Seriously, speakers, a remote and a TV tuner are like, $5 in parts max whereas everything he just listed involves upgrading silicon fabrication processes and designing new ASICs.
  • bhauer 13y ago
    I'll take my unicorn in black, too. I'm not a monitor manufacturer, just an opinionated blogger. But are you telling me that a matte surface would cost more to manufacture than a glossy surface? DPMI support costs a lot? Of my wishlist items, DisplayPort seems the toughest to this layperson, but even that doesn't seem unreasonable. In my earlier blog entry about the same monitor, I said I'd also be willing to pay a tiny bit more. If I could get the "professional" version with the attributes I listed above for $600, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
    • adrianpike 13y ago
      I think you mean DPMS, DPMI is a little different[1]. [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPMI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPMI I'd need to dig a bit to know for sure, but I'd probably they're using off the shelf parts for HDMI that may or may not support DPMS, and either way it'll probably be some hardware changes. If they've already tooled up, yes, it will take some coin to make the transition.
      • bhauer 13y ago
        Oops! You're right, I had that initialism wrong. I've corrected it to DPMS. Also, I will concede that it wouldn't be cheap to add the features I want, but I'd nevertheless pay a small premium to see them happen.
        • 13y ago
• natch 13y ago
  Anyone know, is a Windows machine required for the step of applying the mentioned firmware fix to this monitor?
  • bhauer 13y ago
    Nope! The monitor "boots" and patches from a file on a USB key. It's fairly painless.
    • natch 13y ago
      Sweet, thanks!
• NDizzle 13y ago
  I don't see how anyone could use a 30hz panel for a productive length of time. At 40hz, which is what my laptop goes to when it's in power save mode, even something as simple as scrolling a web browser looks like a torn, jagged mess.
• TempleOSV2 13y ago
  My code is heavenly. Karate Kid movie. I guess we don't let everybody into Heaven. Who's the nigger picking a fight with God? LOL Funny. God says... didn't_I_say_that I'm_not_dead_yet you_don't_like_it I'll_get_right_on_it Icarus ice_cream geek Burp African Hasta to_infinity_and_beyond if_anything_can_go_wrong HolySpirit can_you_hear_me_now adultery
• disbelief 13y ago
  This monitor is listed as $999 on Amazon, following the very link he posted in the article. Is there somewhere else you can buy it for $500?
  • deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  • ryanfreeborn 13y ago
    He's talking about the 39 inch, which is $500. When you go to Amazon, it defaults to displaying the 50 inch. Click 39 inch button to the right of the product image and you'll get the $500.
• nsxwolf 13y ago
  30Hz is a dealbreaker. I will keep my 1920x1200 until I can have a proper 4K display. I really am surprised there are people who can tolerate that refresh rate on a desktop.
  • silon3 13y ago
    "Proper" includes 16:10 or even better (15:10 would be great)
    • hatu 13y ago
      Honestly I hate this new trend of making displays wider and wider. I feel like 4:3 or something a little bit wider is great for programming. Right now my two widescreen displays waste space at the edges because it's just too far to look at. Putting some of that vertically would improve the use of screen real estate for work
      • vacri 13y ago
        4:3 is 16:12. 16:10 is 'a little bit wider' :)
    • nileshtrivedi 13y ago
      Why would you care about the aspect ratio instead of vertical pixel count? I think wide-screens are okay as long as there is enough vertical space (to read code, articles etc.). The window manager is a software problem and can be fixed For eg, Ubuntu's Unity had some clever solutions to utilize wide-screens efficiently.
      • Zak 13y ago
        Assuming a sufficiently high pixel density, I think what most people care about most is physical height. Being too wide might make a display difficult to fit in to certain work spaces, but it's not nearly as big an issue with desktops as it is with laptops.
  • Scienz 13y ago
• mproud 13y ago
  Whatever. It’s not the number of pixels, it’s the pixel density that’s important. Higher density is what is going to make text and pictures better. At 39″, that’s 113 ppi. Anyone can rig up a multi-monitor display setup with higher ppi. The only advancement is one physical screen that a good number of GPUs can’t take advantage of. For comparison, my Retina 13″ MacBook Pro has 2560x1440, 2.5K (or really ⅔ 4K) but at 227 ppi.
  • harpastum 13y ago
    The real factor is pixels per degree of your vision, not ppi. Viewing distance range with phones and laptops is pretty limited (an arm's length), but with a monitor you can simply move it farther away on the desk to increase the perceived pixel density. Of course, moving the monitor farther away also makes the perceived monitor size smaller. since PPI and distance can be traded one for the other, what ends up mattering is the total resolution. 4k is a lot of pixels.
  • mhd 13y ago
    For programming, pixel density will probably just get me smoother fonts. Previously it might have gotten me more lines of fonts, as I could've reduced the font size will maintaining readability. But I think I've reached a limit there, where further decreasing the point size just hurts. And honestly, with your usual fare of monochromatic fonts and current font smoothing tech, I'm quite okay even with "just" 1900x1200 resolution. For other stuff, sure, more pixels won't hurt. Reading PDF at high ppi devices is a joy. But getting back to programming, I wonder how I'd cope with a 39" display. At the same position where my monitors are now, I could probably replace two with just the one. With two monitors my viewing angle is too wide anyway, so again I'd mostly use either one half of the screen for lots of stuff while paused videos and web pages occupy the rest, or just push everything to the sides and focus on the center. Maybe TekWar had it right...
• vonseel 13y ago
  Well, this is just about the opposite of what many people have been moving towards for the past decade (smaller, more portable, lighter). I do think a single large monitor would be nice. I'm using dual 24's with a 13" retina display centered below and find it difficult to make smart use of the screen space because I have to turn my head constantly.
• pedalpete 13y ago
  I don't really understand monitor specs, is the 30mhz limit due to the size of the monitor, or is it a GPU limitation on most PCs? I'm wondering if a 4k 36" monitor would have a better 40mhz limit or something? Also, my laptop is a few years old with Intel HD integrated graphics. Any idea if it would have enough power to run one of these? What about a ChromeBook? I'm trying to get an idea of just how much power these things need?
  • lstamour 13y ago
    The panel is capable of 120hz on both 39" and 55" but the 39" is further restricted to 60hz at all resolutions. The limit at 4K to 30hz is the HDMI connection. The TV does not have DisplayPort, though HDMI 2 is hoped for in a future firmware update. (At least based on Sony's announcement of such an firmware update for their sets.)
    • houkouonchi 13y ago
      If you flash the 39 inch with the firmware from the 50 inch it can do 120Hz at all resolutions 1920x1080 and below. I even give it 240Hz @ 720p even though it drops half the frames to reduce the input lag from around 9ms to 4.5ms.
      • lstamour 13y ago
        Sounds too good to be true. 30 fps mouse cursors were starting to drive me nuts. I'll have to try this soon. I wonder if/when Seiki comes up with an HDMI 2 version of the TV we can reuse the firmware here...? Edit: I see that Seiki announced new 4K TVs with HDMI 2 at CES, but only 50"+, no 39". I can only hope the new firmware has clues for getting HDMI 2 running on my 39" eventually.
• r0h1n 13y ago
  The article lists the "ideal size" for monitors at 50 inches, and the one for TVs at 100+ inches! While I'm sure it's great to have such massive screen real estate (I wanna get a 4K in 2014 too), I can't but help think this is the programmer equivalent of consumers buying needlessly large TVs. I work on a 24" desktop monitor and a 14" laptop one. How is 50" the "ideal size"? Even 39"? At what point does the law of diminishing returns kick in? Sure, it's great to gave 7 windows side-by-side, but is it that much of a productivity jump from, say, 4 windows or 5 windows? Personally and subjectively, I'd draw the line somewhere around the 28-32" screen size. To sum up, the core argument here seems to be that upgrading to a 39" or 50" monitor is great because (a) it's cheap, and (b) more is always and infinitely better.
  • hvidgaard 13y ago
    I can't argue about a 39" monitor, but having more screen estate boosts productivity for me to the extend that I'm sure that I could use 3 27" over my current 2 24". Avoiding alt+tab means I get my information quicker when I need it from another window, and I get back to the previous context faster. Sometimes I need both but does not have space and is tabbing back and forth.
    • r0h1n 13y ago
      Sure, but if one were to plot (a) the number of alt-tabs you do in a day, versus (b) screen size in inches...don't you think at some point the delta benefits would start leveling off?
      • Retric 13y ago
        Sure, diminishing returns kick in but monitors are cheap and programmers are expensive. It's the same reason that 16+GB of ram and SSD's are worth it. Not because most people need it but the cost is low enough that the productivity gains need to be minuscule to be worth it. aka Assuming monitors last ~3 years and cost below 2,000$ it takes a tiny difference to be worth it because your not just comparing productivity delta's but also cost delta's. In other words a 2,000$ monitor that improves productivity by 1/20th of 1% than a 1,000$ monitor is clearly worth it over 3 years even if the difference is simply eye strain. 3x (salary + benefits + overhead) * .0005 > 1000$. PS: Another way to look at it is spending an extra 1-2k per year on salary over industry standard rarely tempts programmers but an extra 1-2k per year on hardware might.
• maaarghk 13y ago
  My problem is that I have really bad eyesight and I don't want to program all day on a monitor with pixel density like that. I have a laptop which has a high pixel density, 1080p at 13 inches and it is just not ideal. I am zoomed in 150% to 200% on websites routinely.
  • jkscm 13y ago
    High pixel density should, ideally, have no influence on text sizes but the sharpness of the text. You should increase the DPI count in your OS.
• Kiro 13y ago
  They say that having a 120hz monitor greatly improves the desktop experience (it's not just for games) so wouldn't 30hz be a real downgrade if you're used to 60hz?
  • seabrookmx 13y ago
    Honestly, it depends on the person. At work I have an old 75Hz 1024 x 1280 panel (portrait) beside a newer 60Hz 1200p panel. If you look closely, you can tell the old panel is smoother. But its just that.. you have to look closely. It definitely isn't a jarring difference. IMO I wouldn't get much more out of a 120Hz panel just for programming and daily use. As for gaming, wI know the extra framerate definitely smooths out the experience in FPS games. I'd take a 1440p IPS panel over a 1080p TN (120hz) any day, but I know others who say the exact opposite. Its totally subjective.
• MetaCosm 13y ago
  > Today, you can still buy a 30-inch 2560x1600 display for over $1,000. Or you can get a 39-inch 3840x2160 display for $500. This choice is not even fair. Yes, you can buy a wonderful, physically adjustable, mountable, color calibrated, blissful contrast, delightful brightness control monitor with a great matte finish like the Dell 3014... or you can buy an absolutely awful 30hz, locked in place, blue tinted, horrible uniformity, terrible brightness, awful contrast, with horrible black levels and really -- just horrific to work on 4K "tv". I speak from first hand experience, it is absolutely one of the worst panels I have ever had the misfortune to stare at vim on. The colors are so awful that literally, some of my favorite themes (seoul256) where ENTIRELY unusable, just a greymush of nothingness. With bright spots and dark spots to make reading code even harder. So, I tried a black background theme... only to be horrified with the black level. I agree with the author there is no comparison, obviously almost anything beats the Seiki. Hell, most review sites won't even recommend it as a TV, let alone a monitor.
  • samstave 13y ago
    >to stare at vim on Well, there's your problem right there...
    • yukkurishite 13y ago
      >>>/g/
    • emirozer 13y ago
      ahahah wp sir wp
  • robbiet480 13y ago
    I agree the colors are a mess..... until you spend an hour or so calibrating. I did over the last two days since I bought one, and it has the same look, color wise, as my rMBP now (I own the 39" Seiki)
    • MetaCosm 13y ago
      I tried calibrated it with both X-Rite and Spyder (both physical calibration devices) -- neither could get it anywhere near "average". It just swings all over the place. Also, calibration can't fix horrible blacks, uneven brightness and the finish. What equipment did you use? Can you post your pre/post scores? I have NEVER met anyone who has been able to actually calibrate it into even "average" ranges. I realize that X-Rite and Spyder are "consumer grade" calibration devices, but they are all I have access to.
• airtonix 13y ago
  alt+tabbing? wut? Synergy + 17" Laptop as server + Desktop with 2x 24" screens on desk arms... Some one explain why a single large screen is better for a programmer, when synergy is dead easy to setup.
  • MetaCosm 13y ago
    Some people loath the seperation between screens (I am one of these people) -- So I have a single nice 30".
• nbevans 13y ago
  I don't think I'd want to work somewhere where it appears to be compulsory to use a ridiculously cheap $500 39 inch UHD display. How ridiculous! 28-30 inch is plenty big enough for a desktop computer. The intentions are good. But seriously, why not just wait a few weeks for the Dell 4K monitor that's price well under $1000.
• onion2k 13y ago
  Does the alleged productivity boost come from the increased screen estate, or the feeling of value that comes from your employer investing in you? I had a distinct boost when I went from a 17" Dell laptop to a 13" Mac Air. It'd be interesting to see if any increase lasts.
• fhd2 13y ago
  > At our office, we just equipped all of the programmers' workstations with Seiki 39" 4K televisions as monitors. [...] For the time being, there is no single higher-productivity display for a programmer. Maybe it's just me, but I'm most productive on a 13" laptop. I can change my work place and position as I want, plus only one app fitting on the screen actually helps me focus. Emacs/tmux/IDE users can do most programming work in a single application anyway. I've used a 27" monitor and before that two 20" monitors for years. It was great for other activities, but when it comes to programming, it only distracted me.
  • NigelTufnel 13y ago
    It's not just you. While reading the article I was thinking "wow, these guys are using 39" monitors, while I'm perfectly happy with a single 17" monitor or a 13" laptop. There must be something wrong with me." Emacs is my screen space saviour. Every file or shell is 3 key presses away, I just don't need extra monitors.
    • marcosdumay 13y ago
      Have you tried emacs in portrait mode on a bigger screen?
      • broken_symlink 13y ago
        I've tried it on a 24in monitor running at 1920x1200 in portrait mode. Its great for editing text. I found that a good setup was to split the screen vertically and have 2 windows, one on top of the other. It doesn't really work well when splitting horizontally.
    • thom 13y ago
      How do you use frames and windows in emacs? Even on a single screen, I've generally got at least a couple of columns up, so I can understand the utility of greater real estate. With multiple monitors, you can open two frames up, use next-multiframe-window and it mostly behaves like a giant emacs across two screens. That said, I almost exclusively work on a 15" retina MBP and don't find myself annoyed, so I guess you're right. :)
• hatu 13y ago
  My two 23" screens area already too big for me. I could cut half off each almost. They're nice IPS panels with minimal glare and really good for your eyes. Putting a cheap 39" TV in front of my nose 8 hours a day sounds ridiculous.
• jheriko 13y ago
  how is this better than multiple monitors? the support in Windows (and at least Ubuntu Linux) for e.g. maximising a window to fill a single monitor is excellent. The other thing, with any article like this where Windows is not used for testing makes me skeptical. Most programmers do not work in offices developing on Macs or Linux machines by a very large margin. Working on a mac for iOS and OS X development is something we grudgingly do because Apple enforce it... in fact you could say that all programmers use Windows and be very close to being accurate. I've never used multiple monitors on a mac to comment though - I can imagine the support being just as good as in Windows or Linux.
  • knightni 13y ago
    An extremely large number of programmers use Mac and Linux machines. Linux on the desktop is sustained to a substantial extent by a programmer audience - and you only have to look at the availability of software for it to see that it's popular among that group. Personally, when I'm not using a unix-y environment, it's because I've been forced. Using windows as a programmer feels like having one of my hands chopped off.
    • jheriko 13y ago
      sure it is a large number, but large != most. every programmer i know works in a windows dominated environment. this is a small sample though. i believe that in back-end only environments linux has some serious popularity but i can't comment on how many studios use it as their development platform because i have no great experience there (actually i work in office where they develop such things, but they use windows exclusively). for desktop software, games and web front-end development windows is king. its the platform that all of your target audience are using to an excellent approximation. for AAA games there is an extra restriction that its the only practical choice (there are zero tools for working on any other platform). sure for iOS/OS X there is the same restriction to a mac and iOS development has become extremely popular - even so there is quite some resistance to using OS X and XCode as anything more than a test configuration on cross platform projects - I've seen a lot of macs dual booting to windows in this context. For android Linux can give you a small edge, but its not much... Linux is obviously meant for programmers, but that doesn't mean they use it either - until quite recently even the best flavours were horrible user experiences. I think ubuntu is great and really takes steps to get away from the 'you download source and build your app with archaic and buggy tools at the command line' approach which has always dominated... in terms of doing your job though - unless you work on the backend of some web service you can't do any useful builds under Linux, unless you are targetting Linux desktop which is exceptionally rare.
• dzhiurgis 13y ago
  Article about 4K monitors with 300 pixel photos. It's just not right.
• mhd 13y ago
  Anyone knows where you can get something like this at a similar price point in Germany? The only price I could find the exact same TV was 1200 Euros (about $1600). Not even ebay's international sellers seem to have it, and those proved pretty useful when it came to the Korean high density IPS monitors...
• dieg0 13y ago
  I agree, higher resolution displays is a productivity enhancer, but I also believe that saving money by purchasing a television, as a monitor, is not a good idea… taking care of your eyes is worth every extra dollar. Just recently I went through the same issue, had to buy a new monitor for my work station, finally decided to go with a 2k Apple TB monitor, also considered Samsung alternative, but it doesn't have some of the features Apple added such as automatic brightness control and additional ports. My decision was based on taking care of my vision, tvs simply aren't built to be viewed from a desktop distance, they are just too bright… they where thought to be used from a distance.
• pivo 13y ago
  I'd love to have a good 39" 4K monitor, but I really don't want any other developer in my office to have one. For some reason, everyone else feels that they should use the entire screen width for code. So we end up with 200 character long lines on our 24" monitors. Can't imagine the horror they'd produce with 39" monitors.
  • randallsquared 13y ago
    Not having an arbitrary length limit allows one to write code prose, instead of being limited to code poetry... :)
• AshleysBrain 13y ago
  Heh. Lots of articles about "technology sucks" on a page which has broken middle click so I can't open new tabs, can't right-click to copy a link URL (in the 'more' section), breaks the back button if the AJAX request completes after you press back again...
• gjm11 13y ago
  Not only programmers. ASIC designers. Analogue electronics engineers. Traders. Quantitative analysts. Anyone whose work involves big complicated things that it's difficult to hold all of in one's head: a large piece of software, the design of a power station, the results of a finite element analysis. For almost any sort of heavy brain-work, having more pixels makes for more productivity. So for almost any sort of well-paid heavy brain-work, employers should be falling over themselves to provide lots of pixels. It is a longstanding mystery to me why so many aren't.
• mrfusion 13y ago
  Does anyone know if a macbook pro (1 year old) can support 4K monitors?
  • GuiA 13y ago
    Only late 2013 retinas do
    • houkouonchi 13y ago
      Not true. The older 2012 rMBP will do it fine too on newer versions of OS X or linux/windows. And that is just over the HDMI port. With a Active DP 1.1 -> HDMI 1.4 adapter even very old macs that have TB will run the display just fine.
• transfire 13y ago
  Just wait 12 months. Better 4K options are on the horizon.
• mentos 13y ago
  > Several colleagues found the display shockingly bright and were frustrated that the brightness adjustment did not actually reduce the backlight intensity. In 2007 I had the idea to use my 28" flatscreen TV as a monitor, took me three days before I had terrible eye strain/migraines/light sensitivity.
  • lukeschlather 13y ago
    Yeah, I have a beautiful little ASUS netbook (the newer ones that ship with Ubuntu) and its brightness ranges from reasonable to just barely on. It's fantastic being able to tune the brightness to the ambient light in the room (as well as save on battery life.) I really don't care about 4K, I want a monitor that's got a wide range of brightness levels with the same integration with my Ubuntu workstation that that netbook has with its integrated screen. (I plug it in and the OS immediately knows how to communicate with the monitor to adjust the brightness based on a keystroke. )
• taternuts 13y ago
  I had to bring my own shitty 19 inch monitor to work just to have two :/
• haar 13y ago
  I feel like I must be in the minority here: I enjoy multiple (smaller, 28" max, sub-24" preferable) displays. I run iTerm2 in full screen with Vim split alongside 2 or 3 console panes; I find the separation from the rest of my OS a blessing. The second screen I use for Chrome, HipChat, Flint, Sparrow etc; I still notice chat notifications, and to keep a eye on my dock (which displays all notification counts across my multiple programs) is a simple key combination if I'm in 'the zone' and don't wish to break out of my programming environment (iTerm2). I've tried larger screens in the past, and found myself physically looking around the screen a lot more, simply due to having all my content splatted together. Combine this with a keyboard-based window manager and the 1/2 - 1/4 screen segmenting and I feel much more organised and efficient than trying to manage a 30"+ monster of a screen.
• mathattack 13y ago
  Yes indeed. And programmers should get multiple screens too. This will only get better over time too.
• leoc 13y ago
  4K isn't only for programmers though, or even only for programmers and a few other specialised technical or AV jobs. Bring the word of high-resolution monitors (ideally through demonstration) to your friends and relatives who are navigating tax law or writing papers about Beowulf: 4K is for them too. Doing any serious work or study in law, business or the humanities on a single small, low-resolution computer screen is horrible: it's like being forced to read only through a cardboard kitchen-roll tube. And the more people who are demanding reasonably-priced high-res monitor screens, the more likely manufacturers are to take note.
• Istof 13y ago
  For movies, last time I checked about a year ago, it was still difficult to get a bluray that was real 1080 (they usually are DVDs converted to bluray and the quality is not any better) ... I wonder how many years it will take for 4k content to be widespread ...
  • sosborn 13y ago
    Not my experience at all, although I could see that being true for older movies.
• goggles99 13y ago
  Who would disagree that more pixels is better? I DO disagree that a 39" glossy monitor from a garbage brand and that only runs @30hz in full res is a good option right now. Too big, glossy and every Seiki monitor that I have come across has had problems within the first two years (everything from displaying all green to catching on fire)
• anigbrowl 13y ago
  No, 4k is for film editors and colorists. These are the people who think about resolution color, persistence of vision and so forth for a living, and who ultimately guide the standards that result in quality monitors. Whingeing about HD as if it had hindered some programmer-driven monitor nirvana is laughable; if the needs of programmers were the guiding light of display technology we wouldn't be using GUIs because so many programmers prefer a command-line environment. I want a 50-inch desktop display with north of 10,000 horizontal pixels. Big whoop. I want an interactive holodesk and bidirectional wireless neural interface too. I also want dynamically-generated domain specific function graphing so I don't want have to shoehorn my ideas into a one-dimensional text stream.
• brownbat 13y ago
  > This blog uses a little JavaScript. Nothing dodgy, though, and nothing hosted at third-party sites. Just some jQuery and animation bits. So please, if you'd be so kind, ask Noscript to call off the hounds. ... That said, if you insist on leaving script off, you can just scroll down a bit to read the content. This site is my hero. Write a "no javascript detected" message as if blocking javascript is perfectly understandable (even if you secretly believe we're all hatted in tin). You know your audience with these, what does it hurt to throw them a bone.
  • brownbat 13y ago
    (That said, I don't block javascript to keep content providers from doing dodgy things quite so much as I do it to avoid fallout when someone breaks into your server, or slips something into your page in transit.)
• m0skit0 13y ago
  > but if you are programming on something so old, you should first contend with that. So for programming Android apps I need an top of the line GPU? Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Not even bothering reading the rest.
• ciofeca 13y ago
  A few weeks ago I got a brand new 27" 1920x1080 Asus display for some 200 bucks. Once at home, I realized it was a TV set without the TV receiver. This is the worst thing a programmer may ever buy. A programmer's monitor should have not only a fairly decent contrast, but also the darkest black possible. This thing, even at the lowest brightness/contrast/colours settings, outputs a lot of light (and its black is just a gray), making it unsuitable for programming with any color scheme. I switched back to the old 19" 1440x900 Samsung monitor bought some seven years ago, which has a true black. I'll pop in a mediacenter box and throw the 27" in the dining room. Before buying a monitor, you should check for its "blackest black" in a low light condition and use full-screen. And -yes- that tsotech article just sucks.
  • bhauer 13y ago
    > And -yes- that tsotech article just sucks. It's just a blog entry. I'm not a journalist. But thanks for the criticism. It's clear you and I just disagree about displays.
• npsimons 13y ago
  Flagged, for two reasons: - Requiring JS for text. Okay, I'll turn it on this once since you claim "nothing dodgy." - Disabling my control click to open in background tab, especially after claiming "nothing dodgy"? You shouldn't be on the front page.
  • bhauer 13y ago
    Well at least you posted why. Incidentally, I got a lot of flack for the animation and loading posts via AJAX and the history API rather than just as traditional pages. Lesson learned: a blog isn't really the place to experiment with my meager UX skills. So I'll probably simplify it when I get some free time.
• slr555 13y ago
  The classification of this as a television reveals the schizoid nature of display development. For programmers the main requirement seems to be lots of pixels without undue eyestrain. Where things start to get crazy is that 4K is now the standard for movie projection in commercial theatres and creative professionals of all stripe are clamoring to produce content that takes advantage not only of the pixels but all the qualitative properties that photographers, illustrators, animators need. For me as a photographer, having a 4K camera is a wonderful thought in terms of resolution but if the display can't integrate into my workflow to match my printer then it is not so useful. It is this referenceability issue that makes it possible for Sony to sell 10,000 dollar reference monitors for television production. I can only hope for the day that I can by a $500 4K monitor for creative professionals.
• 2gg2rg 13y ago
  Would I get the full resolution using the DisplayPort out on my laptop and a cable to convert that to the HDMI on the TV?
  • erikig 13y ago
    I have been using the Seiki 39" for about 4 months now and I agree with a lot of what @bhauer has to say. There are a couple of things as a developer. 1. You end up developing really long lines of code that might upset other developers 2. I'm on my second Seiki, my first one died and it took 1 mo. to receive a replacement.
• lnanek2 13y ago
  Honestly, I've long used a pair of 1080P 37" TV as my preferred monitors. One landscape, one vertical. I place them far away so my eyes don't have to work as hard to focus. Fonts are big for the same reason. I don't need 4k whatsoever. It would just make things too tiny to read with the current poor support OSes have for dpi independent rendering.