4 ms·

i lived in Norway for a little over one year; for anyone who has every lived there, you become aware of the outrageously high cost of just about everything. Dur

i lived in Norway for a little over one year; for anyone who has every lived there, you become aware of the outrageously high cost of just about everything. During my time there i felt like i everything i purchased was from a New York City hotel mini-bar. The high cost is largely due to the very steep VAT (unlike the US, but like almost most everywhere else, the prices of goods in the shops include VAT) which is 25%. the cost of a private university is prohibitive for many if not most families. in addition, the personal income tax has a high lowest-rate (which i believe is 28%, and a max rate of 50%). personal accounts for frequent-flier points are taxed; the tax paid on a new car can easily exceed 85% (that's 80 + 5 not 8.5!); gasoline prices are silly--about $13 per gallon (if i did my maths correctly). i just checked a cost-of-living Site (Numbeo.com) and sure enough, Norway is #1 in Consumer Price Index with 173.85, over 22 points above second place Switzerland. How does this compare with other countries of similar oil wealth? For instance, Kuwait's oil annual oil exports are about the same as Norway's (though the lifting costs differ significantly). In Kuwait, education is free, all the way through university and there is no VAT (sales tax).

perbu 13y ago
Income tax is not flat. It peaks at 50% (of the salary > $80K). Also education is free for everyone. Very few attend private unis.
- Dewie 13y ago
  > Also education is free for everyone. Very few attend private unis. Exactly. It's really misleading to readers who might be from a country where private higher education is more of the norm to just say that 'most families can not afford private universities', since most people who take higher education go to a public uni/college. And most people don't even want to go to a private university. An exception might be Handelshøyskolen BI, a college for business administration and the like. But I've never heard of the cost of that being a systemic issue.
  - paulhauggis 13y ago
    "And most people don't even want to go to a private university." If I'm paying that much in taxes and most goods and services are really expensive..how could I afford this? I think this is probably why most people aren't going to a private school..unless you are extremely rich...which I don't think is even possible in Norway with all of the taxes currently in place.
    - gizzlon 13y ago
      AFAIK, most private schools also receive some funding by the government (if they want). You seem to believe that private schools are always better, but at least in my field, the top public universities are regarded as better than any private school.
      - paulhauggis 13y ago
        "AFAIK, most private schools also receive some funding by the government (if they want)." If this is the case, I wouldn't really consider it private.
        vidarh 13y ago
        They are privately owned, and privately operated. It is simply that they receive a public subsidy of student costs if they meet certain criteria. This is quite common elsewhere too. E.g. UK universities.
    - dagw 13y ago
      The private universities are rarely better than the public ones outside of a couple of narrow fields. Certainly if your want to study a STEM subject, Economics, Medicine or most humanities the public universities are at least as good and probably better than the private ones. The only area where private universities arguably have an edge is in Business and Management subjects. And even the most expensive private universities are 'only' $10-15k a year, which while certainly a lot of money, is quite cheap compared to the US. Combine this with a relatively high minimum wage and it's quite possible to pay the tuition with a part time job while studying.
Dewie 13y ago
> i lived in Norway for a little over one year; for anyone who has every lived there, you become aware of the outrageously high cost of just about everything. Perhaps except for people who have only lived there.
qw 13y ago
> the cost of a private university is prohibitive for many if not most families The public universities are free and of good quality. Most of the private universities tend to be more specialized. Some are for students that can't get in to regular studies, and others provide different subjects, such as bachelor degrees in real estate etc. A degree from a public university is not looked down upon because your employer probably studied at a public university too. The only exception I can think of are those who want an MBA. Many of the MBAs I have met went to a private school ("BI"). Education at "BI" in Oslo costs less than $6000 a year and is not out of reach for most families. > the personal income tax has a high lowest-rate (which i believe is 28% The tax pays for public health care, welfare, free education, 49 week paid parental leave (100% of salary) and other benefits. If you compare with another country you need to include this in the cost of living. > gasoline prices are silly--about $13 per gallon (if i did my maths correctly) The price of gasoline is closer to $9 per gallon (15kr per litre), but still too high.
- Houshalter 13y ago
  >The tax pays for public health care, welfare, free education, 49 week paid parental leave (100% of salary) and other benefits. If you compare with another country you need to include this in the cost of living. None of those things would really benefit someone who only lived there for a year though.
  - chii 13y ago
    > None of those things would really benefit someone who only lived there for a year though. of course, but the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few.
  - atmosx 13y ago
    That's like saying that owning a Mac didn't benefit you, because you needed a playstation to play some game. Then you go on implying that the Mac is not a good computer.
    - Houshalter 13y ago
laurencerowe 13y ago
Alcohol is taxed at a very high rate in Norway for health reasons, similar to the tobacco tax rates in the UK. Everything else though is much more expensive too, and VAT is only part of the story (compare to UK with VAT at 20%.) Much of the additional price in Norway is down to higher local labour costs, though for food protectionism for farmers also plays a part. As a software engineer I earned a much lower multiple of the wages of a supermarket employee in Norway than when working in Britain, the US or Germany. As a result there are fewer people working in supermarkets, cleaners use more machinery, some services like dry cleaning are rare outside Oslo as they're uneconomic for most people. The result of all this is that people seem to feel more secure. The power of employers and employees is more balanced. There is an expectation that there should be time for family life (most professionals work 8-4.) Most developed countries have reached the point where they don't lack resources, they just fail to share them around equitably.
e12e 13y ago
I've lived most of my life in Norway, and also spent a year living in Japan (and visited London, Berlin as well as the east and west coast of the US, and Toronto). Cost of living in Norway is high, but we also are among the people that spend the least amount of our pay (percentage wise) on food. Effective minimum wage (there is no minimum wage) is around 200k NOK a year, the prime minister makes approximately 800k -- and a reasonable pay is 400k NOK/year (65k USD) -- this is also close to the median wage[1]. All our best universities and colleges are public (and free) -- and there's a government sponsored student loan/stipend (for living expenses) that while too low (and worse than eg: Denmark) -- are good enough that it is possible to live on it (almost no-one does, as you can't both live on it and go out drinking two days a week...). When I went to Japan in 1997 (just before the crash) -- cost of living in Japan "felt" similar to in Norway. Better quality food (or cheaper depending on your point of view) -- more expensive housing and utilities. As I was in high-school at the time I don't know how salaries relate, AFAIK if you get a "real" job in Japan you will make a decent living, but many young people are stuck in part-time jobs. Also worth mentioning is the heavy taxation on cars, the recent change in VAT for food (half of the regular 25%) -- and that we still don't pay VAT on books. I'm not sure if this comment really adds much, but I (along with a few other responders, I suspect) was really thrown by the insinuation that education is not only not free in Norway, but expensive. [1] http://www.ssb.no/a/aarbok/tab/tab-190.html http://www.ssb.no/a/aarbok/tab/tab-190.html (note these numbers are after tax, my numbers (which are from memory-ish, are before tax)
- blah32497 13y ago
  My anecdotal experience 3 years ago living in Japan (near Tokyo, for 2 months doing an internship) was that the prices on average were similar to what I experienced back home in California. Occasionally some things were surprisingly more expensive, and others were surprisingly cheap. The 100yen (~$1) stores were better stocked than in the US and I could get most things I needed from them. They also were located in malls and were very nice to shop in. Things like sushi that I expected to be cheaper were about the same price as back in the US (which was seriously disappointing!), and cheaper food was seriously cheap and relatively healthy. I lost like 20 lbs eating all those beef bowls and noodles. Trains were not super cheap, but not overly expensive. It's way way waaaayyyy cheaper than Europe and unlike in Europe they privately owned, aren't subsidized and make a profit which was a relief to hear (I can't think of another country that has an unsubsidized public transportation system) I think the bus from Tokyo to Kyoto was about 40 bucks (my memory is a bit hazy). . Owning a car and driving places from what I understood is extremely expensive. I think most of my coworkers didn't own cars. A relatively short drive on the freeway can easily set you back $50 (tolls roads everywhere). I didn't get any hard figures for wages, but I think generally people didn't make a killing, but people lived comfortably and it seemed they could support a family on one wage. They did however work 12 hours a day... so I don't think they got to enjoy whatever income they made.
vacri 13y ago
In Kuwait, education is free, all the way through university and there is no VAT (sales tax). Kuwait also engages in slavery. Life ain't so good for those folks.
elwell 13y ago
> In Kuwait, education is free In Saudi Arabia, you get paid to attend school.
vidarh 13y ago
> The high cost is largely due to the very steep VAT (unlike the US, but like almost most everywhere else, the prices of goods in the shops include VAT) which is 25%. Compared to the US, maybe to some extent. But Norway is also extremely expensive compared to most other European countries, many of which have VAT in the 20% (UK) or above range (Sweden, Denmark) The other explanation is salaries: The median salary is extremely high, and the salary curves are very flat. The result is that most people have a very good living standard overall despite the price levels (in fact, recently in a poll, people on average reported to be paid about 100k/year more than they feel they need..), but salary contributes to driving up prices far more than it does most other places as that person at the tills serving you, or picking up litter on the street, actually earns a decent salary. > in addition, the personal income tax has a high lowest-rate (which i believe is 28%, and a max rate of 50%). That's quite misleading. This rate applies to taxable income. Taxable income is calculated by taking your gross income, subtracting the minimum deduction (currently ca. NOK 84,000 / $13,600) which is not taxed at all, and any other deductions, which includes all interest on debts including mortgages (which means you effectively get a 28% deduction on interests on your debts). (edit: and a long laundry list of other things) Also the marginal top tax rate is only applied on amounts above a certain threshold, meaning your tax only starts getting close to the top tax rate if you're earning in the millions and have an inept tax planner.

perbu 13y ago

Income tax is not flat. It peaks at 50% (of the salary > $80K). Also education is free for everyone. Very few attend private unis.

Dewie 13y ago
> Also education is free for everyone. Very few attend private unis. Exactly. It's really misleading to readers who might be from a country where private higher education is more of the norm to just say that 'most families can not afford private universities', since most people who take higher education go to a public uni/college. And most people don't even want to go to a private university. An exception might be Handelshøyskolen BI, a college for business administration and the like. But I've never heard of the cost of that being a systemic issue.
- paulhauggis 13y ago
  "And most people don't even want to go to a private university." If I'm paying that much in taxes and most goods and services are really expensive..how could I afford this? I think this is probably why most people aren't going to a private school..unless you are extremely rich...which I don't think is even possible in Norway with all of the taxes currently in place.
  - gizzlon 13y ago
    AFAIK, most private schools also receive some funding by the government (if they want). You seem to believe that private schools are always better, but at least in my field, the top public universities are regarded as better than any private school.
    - paulhauggis 13y ago
      "AFAIK, most private schools also receive some funding by the government (if they want)." If this is the case, I wouldn't really consider it private.
      - vidarh 13y ago
        They are privately owned, and privately operated. It is simply that they receive a public subsidy of student costs if they meet certain criteria. This is quite common elsewhere too. E.g. UK universities.
  - dagw 13y ago
    The private universities are rarely better than the public ones outside of a couple of narrow fields. Certainly if your want to study a STEM subject, Economics, Medicine or most humanities the public universities are at least as good and probably better than the private ones. The only area where private universities arguably have an edge is in Business and Management subjects. And even the most expensive private universities are 'only' $10-15k a year, which while certainly a lot of money, is quite cheap compared to the US. Combine this with a relatively high minimum wage and it's quite possible to pay the tuition with a part time job while studying.

Dewie 13y ago

> i lived in Norway for a little over one year; for anyone who has every lived there, you become aware of the outrageously high cost of just about everything. Perhaps except for people who have only lived there.

qw 13y ago

> the cost of a private university is prohibitive for many if not most families The public universities are free and of good quality. Most of the private universities tend to be more specialized. Some are for students that can't get in to regular studies, and others provide different subjects, such as bachelor degrees in real estate etc. A degree from a public university is not looked down upon because your employer probably studied at a public university too. The only exception I can think of are those who want an MBA. Many of the MBAs I have met went to a private school ("BI"). Education at "BI" in Oslo costs less than $6000 a year and is not out of reach for most families. > the personal income tax has a high lowest-rate (which i believe is 28% The tax pays for public health care, welfare, free education, 49 week paid parental leave (100% of salary) and other benefits. If you compare with another country you need to include this in the cost of living. > gasoline prices are silly--about $13 per gallon (if i did my maths correctly) The price of gasoline is closer to $9 per gallon (15kr per litre), but still too high.

Houshalter 13y ago
>The tax pays for public health care, welfare, free education, 49 week paid parental leave (100% of salary) and other benefits. If you compare with another country you need to include this in the cost of living. None of those things would really benefit someone who only lived there for a year though.
- chii 13y ago
  > None of those things would really benefit someone who only lived there for a year though. of course, but the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few.
- atmosx 13y ago
  That's like saying that owning a Mac didn't benefit you, because you needed a playstation to play some game. Then you go on implying that the Mac is not a good computer.
  - Houshalter 13y ago

laurencerowe 13y ago

Alcohol is taxed at a very high rate in Norway for health reasons, similar to the tobacco tax rates in the UK. Everything else though is much more expensive too, and VAT is only part of the story (compare to UK with VAT at 20%.) Much of the additional price in Norway is down to higher local labour costs, though for food protectionism for farmers also plays a part. As a software engineer I earned a much lower multiple of the wages of a supermarket employee in Norway than when working in Britain, the US or Germany. As a result there are fewer people working in supermarkets, cleaners use more machinery, some services like dry cleaning are rare outside Oslo as they're uneconomic for most people. The result of all this is that people seem to feel more secure. The power of employers and employees is more balanced. There is an expectation that there should be time for family life (most professionals work 8-4.) Most developed countries have reached the point where they don't lack resources, they just fail to share them around equitably.

e12e 13y ago

I've lived most of my life in Norway, and also spent a year living in Japan (and visited London, Berlin as well as the east and west coast of the US, and Toronto). Cost of living in Norway is high, but we also are among the people that spend the least amount of our pay (percentage wise) on food. Effective minimum wage (there is no minimum wage) is around 200k NOK a year, the prime minister makes approximately 800k -- and a reasonable pay is 400k NOK/year (65k USD) -- this is also close to the median wage[1]. All our best universities and colleges are public (and free) -- and there's a government sponsored student loan/stipend (for living expenses) that while too low (and worse than eg: Denmark) -- are good enough that it is possible to live on it (almost no-one does, as you can't both live on it and go out drinking two days a week...). When I went to Japan in 1997 (just before the crash) -- cost of living in Japan "felt" similar to in Norway. Better quality food (or cheaper depending on your point of view) -- more expensive housing and utilities. As I was in high-school at the time I don't know how salaries relate, AFAIK if you get a "real" job in Japan you will make a decent living, but many young people are stuck in part-time jobs. Also worth mentioning is the heavy taxation on cars, the recent change in VAT for food (half of the regular 25%) -- and that we still don't pay VAT on books. I'm not sure if this comment really adds much, but I (along with a few other responders, I suspect) was really thrown by the insinuation that education is not only not free in Norway, but expensive. [1] http://www.ssb.no/a/aarbok/tab/tab-190.html http://www.ssb.no/a/aarbok/tab/tab-190.html (note these numbers are after tax, my numbers (which are from memory-ish, are before tax)

blah32497 13y ago
My anecdotal experience 3 years ago living in Japan (near Tokyo, for 2 months doing an internship) was that the prices on average were similar to what I experienced back home in California. Occasionally some things were surprisingly more expensive, and others were surprisingly cheap. The 100yen (~$1) stores were better stocked than in the US and I could get most things I needed from them. They also were located in malls and were very nice to shop in. Things like sushi that I expected to be cheaper were about the same price as back in the US (which was seriously disappointing!), and cheaper food was seriously cheap and relatively healthy. I lost like 20 lbs eating all those beef bowls and noodles. Trains were not super cheap, but not overly expensive. It's way way waaaayyyy cheaper than Europe and unlike in Europe they privately owned, aren't subsidized and make a profit which was a relief to hear (I can't think of another country that has an unsubsidized public transportation system) I think the bus from Tokyo to Kyoto was about 40 bucks (my memory is a bit hazy). . Owning a car and driving places from what I understood is extremely expensive. I think most of my coworkers didn't own cars. A relatively short drive on the freeway can easily set you back $50 (tolls roads everywhere). I didn't get any hard figures for wages, but I think generally people didn't make a killing, but people lived comfortably and it seemed they could support a family on one wage. They did however work 12 hours a day... so I don't think they got to enjoy whatever income they made.

vacri 13y ago

In Kuwait, education is free, all the way through university and there is no VAT (sales tax). Kuwait also engages in slavery. Life ain't so good for those folks.

elwell 13y ago

> In Kuwait, education is free In Saudi Arabia, you get paid to attend school.

vidarh 13y ago

> The high cost is largely due to the very steep VAT (unlike the US, but like almost most everywhere else, the prices of goods in the shops include VAT) which is 25%. Compared to the US, maybe to some extent. But Norway is also extremely expensive compared to most other European countries, many of which have VAT in the 20% (UK) or above range (Sweden, Denmark) The other explanation is salaries: The median salary is extremely high, and the salary curves are very flat. The result is that most people have a very good living standard overall despite the price levels (in fact, recently in a poll, people on average reported to be paid about 100k/year more than they feel they need..), but salary contributes to driving up prices far more than it does most other places as that person at the tills serving you, or picking up litter on the street, actually earns a decent salary. > in addition, the personal income tax has a high lowest-rate (which i believe is 28%, and a max rate of 50%). That's quite misleading. This rate applies to taxable income. Taxable income is calculated by taking your gross income, subtracting the minimum deduction (currently ca. NOK 84,000 / $13,600) which is not taxed at all, and any other deductions, which includes all interest on debts including mortgages (which means you effectively get a 28% deduction on interests on your debts). (edit: and a long laundry list of other things) Also the marginal top tax rate is only applied on amounts above a certain threshold, meaning your tax only starts getting close to the top tax rate if you're earning in the millions and have an inept tax planner.