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Uruguay is the Economist's Country of the Year
- dimfisch 13y agoAbout cannabis regulation: "This is a change so obviously sensible ... that no other country has made it."
- rasur 13y agoPerhaps I'm mistaken, but.. The Netherlands? I thought it was regulated there (although I'd have to check on what the state is these days).
- raverbashing 13y agoNo, it's still illegal But if I understand correctly, it's 'tolerated' meaning, they won't bother enforcing the prohibition
- skrebbel 13y agoProduction isn't regulated, only its sale, in small amounts. It's better than nothing, but it's still screwed up. If you want to run a coffee shop, you can safely sell weed without fear of getting in trouble (as long as you don't sell to minors and don't sell large amounts). However, you still need to buy what you sell. Growing it is illegal (and prosecuted), buying it is illegal (and prosecuted). Worse, if you decide not to grow it yourself (and that surely is the safest option), the only place you can buy it from is organised criminals. The sad part here is that the majority of current big parties appear to lean towards criminalizing drugs entirely again, rather than follow Uruguay's lead and regulate or nationalize marihuana production.
- rasur 13y agoThat's sad about the attitude of the political parties - I always had the Netherlands pegged as a quite progressive, open-minded country.
- skrebbel 13y agoThat's a dated, but sticky image of us you have there. Fortunately, our leaders are doing their utmost best to rid ourselves of it, so it shouldn't take long.
- radicalbyte 13y agoIt's technically illegal here, we just choose, as a society, not to enforce it. It's called "gedoogbeleid", which google translates as "tolerance".
- noarchy 13y agoI don't know how "sensible" the change is, other than you're not going to automatically be treated like a criminal. It is a step in the right direction only due to the latter. If we treated other things (alcohol, for instance) the way that Uruguay is treating cannabis, I think there would be outrage. A national registry of drinkers? Limits on the amounts that one can purchase? That's some heavy-handed bureaucracy at work, and shows that just because something is legal, doesn't mean that it is free-as-in-freedom.
- jpttsn 13y agoI think you're right about the outrage that would follow a registry of drinkers. However, the degree of outrage something causes is not decided only by how sensible or not it is. We tend to compare new developments with the status quo. "Sensible" is not used here as an absolute, but to congratulate a step in the right direction.
- petepete 13y agoI really hope other countries take note of this approach to tackling the drugs issue. Luis Suárez has really pulled this one out of the bag.
- dimfisch 13y agoI think Edinson Cavani gave him a hand on that one ;)
- redxblood 13y agoI'm from uruguay, and i don't really see this as a good thing. And don't }ook at our president Mujica as a great leader, he killed douzens during his youth.
- orenbarzilai 13y agoYou just proved the power of good PR and the most ppl forget the past very quickly.
- ballard 13y ago"Those who cannot remember the past ..." are doomed. Full stop.
- tbastos 13y agoThis quote is about "drawing wisdom from the past, to interpret current affairs". It's not about judging people by their past. In fact, if you research history you will find many examples of people who did grave mistakes and then went on to do great good later.
- kristofferR 13y agoMandela is a recent example of that.
- Daishiman 13y agoYou can say that about all of the current leaders of Latin America, whether they're from the left of the right (they were most likely either complicit or participated with the guerrillas, or they supported one of the many military governments). But really, if you think about it most Western first-world leaders have most likely supported some form of unjustified military invasion or covert op designed to support their economic interests. That is not necessarily any better; hell I might prefer the people who got down and dirty to defend their ideals, however wrong they were, rather than the suits who signed the orders while they sat back and let soldiers kill for far less worthy causes.
- cphoton 13y agoUruguayan here, be prepared to face security issues, bad education quality and very high prices in general if considering moving here.
- Daishiman 13y agoAgreed, but compare it to Argentina of Brazil and the difference is clear. Everything is relative, and despite significant critiques, it seems to me that a lot of things are being done properly with a long-term outlook.
- zorked 13y agoThese things aren't about absolute values, they are about deltas. You have a lot to be proud of.
- poulsbohemian 13y agoCan you talk more about this? I have some cousins who moved there who reported feeling very safe (and they were coming from Switzerland...). I had a contractor there for a while and the main issue he had with high prices was on imported electronics due to tariffs. Otherwise, everyone I've spoken to has said housing, food, etc are very affordable. What's the issue with education, IE: funding? access?
- GFischer 13y agoDepends on where you live. I was robbed twice this year (two laptops, a Kindle, and all my electronics, which as you mention are twice as expensive than in the U.S.). Some neighbourhoods are really safe, I used to live in Punta Carretas for a while, and it's equivalent to an European city, but many others aren't - never ever go downtown after dark, and some other neighbourhoods are like the Brazilian favelas - police doesn't enter there. Housing is in a bubble right now, it used to be affordable a few years ago but it's not right now (I had to move to a cheaper neighbourhood because I was priced out of my rent, went up 20% yearly). Food is a little more expensive than in Europe. Education is universal, everyone has access. The country is doing consistently bad on worldwide tests (the PISA score) and that's being made a big deal.
- djhworld 13y agoThe article doesn't really explain much as to why they chose Uruguay as CoTY, merely compressing a few sentences at the end and then just saying "job done" Did they writer want to get out of the office early for christmas treats or something?
- JetSetWilly 13y agoApparantly Scotland is "foolhardy" if it opts for "secession", but Ireland, which already did opt for secession (less pejoratively, secession is typically known as independence once it is acheived), is a resiliant example to us all, with its HDI and economy miles above that of Scotland, and that despite a total lack of oil, and despite a bad housing bust. Funny, that. You have to be very careful with the Economist because they nearly always seem to have utterly transparent motiviations for the nonsense they peddle. In this case it seems like it benefits them to prop up the city of london and UK with a nice secure oil supply, and they have to perform weird intellectual handstands to justify why Scotland would be a basketcase while Ireland is inspirational.
- jpttsn 13y agoYou're saying it's hypocritical to oppose the independence of Scotland, because there are examples of countries who have done well after their independence?
- nmeofthestate 13y agoNot hypocritical, just demonstrating poor judgement due to a lack of objectivity. As a relatively right wing, conservative English publication they're opposed to independence for Scotland but of course express this in terms of it being a bad idea for Scotland. this despite all the evidence that smaller countries do better. I'll now most likely be down voted for pointing that out.
- robbiep 13y agoYep, because choosing a country with strong socialist leanings that has legalised marijuana and a number of other similar liberal measures as 'country of the year' - whatever that means - makes sense if a publication can be entirely defined in terms of where one commenter feels they fit on the political spectrum. Declaring them opposed to Scottish independence for being a conservative publication in a post regarding their seeming love for a left wing country doesn't cognitively mesh well.
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- Tombar 13y agoUruguayan here and proud of my little country. We do have our fair share of issues like any other country on the world, but overall we are doing pretty good and life here is good.
- doppenhe 13y agouruguayan here as well, same feeling :)
- Trufa 13y agoUruguayan here too. This makes me quite proud indeed too! For people that aren't aware, we do have our fair share of problems, Uruguay is being being given a too romantic view by the international media IMO. The main ones being IMO (no particular order, and many related): - Cases of extreme poverty and "slums" where a lot of people grow up in very negative environments. - Lack of security! Lots of problems with violence and violent robberies. - In many cases, not good enough education for the non wealthy, same for the public health system. - A big problem with drug abuse, specially with drugs like "pasta base", similar to crack. Definitely gay marriage and cannabis legalization are steps in the right direction but we have a long way to go. I agree with the OP though, life is pretty good over Uruguay, I've been living abroad for a year now and miss the hell out of my country :) It's a very unique little county, no place like home.
- sanoli 13y agoThis Uruguayan had the opposite to say: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6905503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6905503
- cherta 13y ago"Life here is good", I think this comment is what rabble says about Uruguay is not a country to change the world. No it isn't for me, I'm young, I want to progress, do things that matter. I don't know if I want to change the world but I certainly want to change some things around but all the time you want to do it you get that calm voice that says "Oh but life is pretty good here, there are no much ups and downs". I don't think a US person can stay here for more than a month were the realization of a human being is to buy a house, a car have kids and that's it. We need to stop boast ourselves with this kind of oversized look we are getting from outside and start fixing our crap. Low the taxes, educate better our childs and provide money for the doers and not by political friendship anymore, we can start there.
- dysoco 13y agoCan you guys please invade Argentina? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
- alpeb 13y agoSeems like Uruguay exports a lot of IT services kinda like India does. Any Uruguayan here that would like to comment about this firsthand?
- gclaramunt 13y agoFar from the same scale, but providing IT services (software development and testing for the most of it) is pretty big here.
- GFischer 13y agoI was going to say much the same thing. We're 3 million people , not a billion like India :) . But we do have a lot of people working in IT (about 15.000), we export 2% our GDP in Software, and Indian companies like Tata Consultancy Services have offices here, serving the US market. I hope it will grow even more. One positive for uruguayans but negative for exports is that salaries are much higher than in India or some parts of Eastern Europe (but a LOT lower than in the U.S.), so we are not so competitive in the "lowest bidder outsourcing", we should aim to be a high-end and niche provider, but don't have the culture yet. Graduates from both public and private universities are very capable but we need some more training to match U.S. expectations. I've heard Google doesn't recruit much here because of the lack of PhDs in computer science (which is a definite lack), and there's a lot of emphasis on Java and .NET which doesn't help if the market is looking for iOS or Android or Ruby developers (the Java and .NET outsourcing market being cornered by indians?).
- gruseom 13y agoI like this bit of English wit from the article, on Uruguay's cannabis legalization: "This is a change so obviously sensible [...] that no other country has made it." The Economist doesn't normally bust loose like that. (Edit: or so I thought.)
- dredmorbius 13y agoThe Economist doesn't normally bust loose like that Actually, it does. You just have to be aware of their style of humor to catch it.
- gruseom 13y agoLet's see some examples.
- cgh 13y agoYou clearly aren't a regular reader. The Economist is known for its dry wit, particularly with image captions. Anyway, if you want examples, get a subscription..
- gruseom 13y agoI'm not a subscriber, but I read quite a few of their articles and I'm pretty sure I never noticed a sentence like "This is a change so obviously sensible that no other country has made it."
- laurent123456 13y agoThe Economist sure are not too concerned about proper SEO (and probably don't need to be) - for an article titled "The Economist’s country of the year", the URL is "resilient-ireland-booming-south-sudan-tumultuous-turkey-our-country-year-earths-got".
- xradionut 13y agoIf the Economist had any gravitas or courage, they should have chosen Iceland. :)
- rabble 13y agoLet's see, Uruguay. I'm from California but i've spent a few years living in Uruguay and started and ran a tech business in Uruguay. The country is a special unique place, but it's far from perfect. Let's start with the good things: Good Tech Policies * Laptops for every public school child (over 1 million distributed) * Free basic (64k 1 gb per month) internet on every phone line * Good 3G/4G coverage over the country * Fiber to the home finally provides good broadband * No taxes for tech companies profits (there are pay roll taxes) * Free education through university, no exams to get in. * Goal of %95 renewable electricity production by 2015 * Lots of small startups / exits (about a dozen a year under $10 million USD) * Strong freedom of information laws * Good open source / open formats laws for all government data. Other Positive things * Very little corruption (i never came across any, but people complain) * Legal Gay Marriage, Abortion, Marijuana, etc... Socially progressive * Walkable cities, sidewalk cafes, beaches * GMO's are banned, food is natural and unprocessed. * Good electoral system, proportional representation * Politicians care about building consensus and getting stuff done. * Fantastic & cheap health care system * Not consumerist, people care more about friends & family than things. * No traffic / pollution problems related to cars. * Uruguayans trust their institutions (banks, government, union, church) * Atheist! Uruguayans are not religious and the state is officially atheist. But Uruguay's not perfect. There's a lot wrong. The bureaucracy is complicated with more crazy rules than you can imagine. There's lots of paperwork. There's a lack of local credit and asset markets to get investment. You can get a new company easily, but opening a bank account is a real PITA. Credit card processing and things like that re very hard. Inflation has become a major problem in Uruguay and when combined with real productivity gains and a strong currency it means that real prices have risen a LOT. Pay roll taxes are high but salaries are low. That means many Uruguayans are broke. Car's are very expensive, gas is expensive, keeping traffic down, but it's a pain. The quality of things you buy in Uruguay are very very low. Things constantly break, the market is tiny and customs duties are high. Uruguay's biggest problem, ironically enough given their being very socially liberal and open about good public policy, is that Uruguayans are very conservative. There's no desire to try something new or different. This makes Uruguay feel like it's living in the past. Stable families, sunday diners, stay at home housewives, summer vacations in the family beach house or camping in the same place every year, banks are open from 1 to 4pm, multigenerational house holds, etc... Uruguay feels like an alternate history version of the 1950's. Uruguay's a great place to retire. It's not a place with people who want to change the world, or change their own country to keep up with the Joneses. It's got it's own path driven by good public policy and a desire not to rock the boat. It's definitely much better off than any of the other countries in the region. Few poor people, no rich people, decent quality of life for everybody. PS, ignore then trolls. The right wing in Uruguay lost power because they mismanaged the country and are upset that things are getting better.
- philprx 13y agoWhy post stuff from a website that is paywalled? I think this is a bit a shame toward the Hacker News etiquette (does it need to be written?)...
- mathattack 13y agoYou have to take this from the point of view of the source - the Economist is the most Classically liberal (libertarian) source out there. As such they are pro-personal freedom and market freedom. So Uruguay gets it largely on the back of allowing gay marriage and legalized drug use. It also helps that the current leader is neither corrupt, nor a strongman. Their comment about gay marriage was great - that it's a free way to increase mass happiness. Very profound economics on what I perceived to be a moral issue!