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Maybe I am too obtuse to understand how such things could work. What happens if nobody has a job? OK, that's a little extreme. Let's see, a family of five wo

Maybe I am too obtuse to understand how such things could work. What happens if nobody has a job? OK, that's a little extreme. Let's see, a family of five would get 12500 F per month unconditionally. That's probably a pretty good chunk of money for doing nothing. I see images of five to ten people living together to collectively earn 25000 F per month. In the same story they talk about limiting executive pay to 12x the salary of the lowest paid employee. Again, I just don't see it. In a global market I just don't see intelligent and capable people not looking past their borders seeking better compensation for what they have to offer. How can you build a sustainable and competitive society this way? Again, I'll admit to not being mentally equipped to comprehend how this can work. Perhaps someone can educate me.

ojii 13y ago
Every adult gets 2500/month, so a family of 2 adults + 3 children would get 5000/month which is nowhere near enough in most places in Switzerland.
- robomartin 13y ago
  I was thinking of a family with five adults. No reason for the children to leave such a profitable nest. The other scenario is a group of adult friends or relatives.
  - sigkill 13y ago
    This raises another interesting question. Will there be a population explosion in Switzerland in the medium term?
    - Ecio78 13y ago
      Swiss immigration rules are quite strict, maybe a bit relaxed for UE nationals, but still strict. Afaik you generally need to have a job offer in order to move to Swizerland and take residence. Check for example this sites/news: http://www.swissworld.org/en/faq/living_in_switzerland/ http://www.swissworld.org/en/faq/living_in_switzerland/ http://world.time.com/2013/05/01/bachmann-on-switzerland/ http://world.time.com/2013/05/01/bachmann-on-switzerland/ http://voices.yahoo.com/how-move-united-states-switzerland-323522.html http://voices.yahoo.com/how-move-united-states-switzerland-3... And Swiss don't like too much immigrats, and even cross border workers: http://www3.varesenews.it/english/articolo.php?id=184350 http://www3.varesenews.it/english/articolo.php?id=184350
    - rstuder 13y ago
      I doubt that will be a problem. There is no incentive to get more children. Because the children will only get their own money once they become adults. And so they can't be forced to give up any of the money. So basically, if you are 18 and get the money, and your parent want you to pay money to stay at their house, you can just leave and rent your own place...
  - jbri 13y ago
    That seems like a bit of a sideshow, considering they'd get exactly the same (combined) amount of money if they weren't living together. What makes it any different from a bunch of working adults living in a large house and splitting the rent?
    - thaumasiotes 13y ago
      Well, families often do a better job putting up with each other than roommates do...
  - zxcdw 13y ago
    I think centralized living has huge benefits and should be encouraged. This would be a good start.
jrockway 13y ago
People always want more, so this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Then they will earn more, and pay more taxes, and the cycle continues. Alternatively, the Swiss government may have enough money to invest it all and pay for this out of dividends. Just because the US is broke doesn't mean that everyone is.
- robomartin 13y ago
  > this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Maybe some of them. If American welfare is any indications you'll have generations of people who will live within this free money system, do nothing, learn nothing and demand more and more over time. They will all have iPhones, huge flat screen TV's and never work a day in their lives. Again, I just don't see it and admit that I don't get it. Nice, but I don't get it.
  - ewoodrich 13y ago
    > If American welfare is any indications you'll have generations of people who will live within this free money system, do nothing, learn nothing and demand more and more over time. They will all have iPhones, huge flat screen TV's and never work a day in their lives. There has been a five-year over lifetime limit on welfare since the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act in '96 that replaced AFDC (Aid for Families with Dependent Children) with TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families). And even before then, there was only scant evidence that such a phenomenon occurred. Do you have a citation for that? (EDIT: It also allowed states to redirect federal welfare funds to unrelated purposes. Try living on 110/mo in Mississippi, for example. Let alone affording an iPhone. Plus in all states, there is some work requirement. [1]) [1] http://www.mdhs.state.ms.us/ea_tanf.html http://www.mdhs.state.ms.us/ea_tanf.html
    - robomartin 13y ago
      Well, maybe i am wrong on it being purely a welfare effect. There are many other inputs in that system. Search youtube on how to make money for having babies as an example. Food stamps are another input. For quite some time Russian immigrants coming into Los Angeles had a reputation for piling into homes/appartments and milking every ounce of available government assistance, even to the extreme of keeping quiet when a relative died in order to retain benefits. In addition to that, they developed an extensive under the table cash black market. They would work for cash, earn government benefits, not pay taxes and make tons of money. They were quite fond of Cadillacs and Mercedes Benz. A couple of friends of mine were cops covering some of these areas of LA. They have stories that would make anyone's head spin. My point, perhaps, is that people are resoursefull when it comes to these things and come up with amazing ways to game the system. Most recently the LAUSD has been handing out iPads to students. They quickly figured out how to unlock them. It also looks like some of them probably evaporated, surely making their way onto Craigs List or eBay. What ends up happening is that those who actually live an honest life and end-up supporting untold layers of deadbeats created and empowered by the State. My cop friends are Democrats to the bone but their "faith" regarding some of these programs was rocked a long time ago because they saw first hand what the programs can turn people into.
psuter 13y ago
One thing to consider is that today in Switzerland if you don't work you can already get around 2000CHF/mo in social programs and health insurance subsidies. (Most) people work nevertheless, if only because working brings you much more than a wage.

ojii 13y ago

Every adult gets 2500/month, so a family of 2 adults + 3 children would get 5000/month which is nowhere near enough in most places in Switzerland.

robomartin 13y ago
I was thinking of a family with five adults. No reason for the children to leave such a profitable nest. The other scenario is a group of adult friends or relatives.
- sigkill 13y ago
  This raises another interesting question. Will there be a population explosion in Switzerland in the medium term?
  - Ecio78 13y ago
    Swiss immigration rules are quite strict, maybe a bit relaxed for UE nationals, but still strict. Afaik you generally need to have a job offer in order to move to Swizerland and take residence. Check for example this sites/news: http://www.swissworld.org/en/faq/living_in_switzerland/ http://www.swissworld.org/en/faq/living_in_switzerland/ http://world.time.com/2013/05/01/bachmann-on-switzerland/ http://world.time.com/2013/05/01/bachmann-on-switzerland/ http://voices.yahoo.com/how-move-united-states-switzerland-323522.html http://voices.yahoo.com/how-move-united-states-switzerland-3... And Swiss don't like too much immigrats, and even cross border workers: http://www3.varesenews.it/english/articolo.php?id=184350 http://www3.varesenews.it/english/articolo.php?id=184350
  - rstuder 13y ago
    I doubt that will be a problem. There is no incentive to get more children. Because the children will only get their own money once they become adults. And so they can't be forced to give up any of the money. So basically, if you are 18 and get the money, and your parent want you to pay money to stay at their house, you can just leave and rent your own place...
- jbri 13y ago
  That seems like a bit of a sideshow, considering they'd get exactly the same (combined) amount of money if they weren't living together. What makes it any different from a bunch of working adults living in a large house and splitting the rent?
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    Well, families often do a better job putting up with each other than roommates do...
- zxcdw 13y ago
  I think centralized living has huge benefits and should be encouraged. This would be a good start.

jrockway 13y ago

People always want more, so this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Then they will earn more, and pay more taxes, and the cycle continues. Alternatively, the Swiss government may have enough money to invest it all and pay for this out of dividends. Just because the US is broke doesn't mean that everyone is.

robomartin 13y ago
> this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Maybe some of them. If American welfare is any indications you'll have generations of people who will live within this free money system, do nothing, learn nothing and demand more and more over time. They will all have iPhones, huge flat screen TV's and never work a day in their lives. Again, I just don't see it and admit that I don't get it. Nice, but I don't get it.
- ewoodrich 13y ago
  > If American welfare is any indications you'll have generations of people who will live within this free money system, do nothing, learn nothing and demand more and more over time. They will all have iPhones, huge flat screen TV's and never work a day in their lives. There has been a five-year over lifetime limit on welfare since the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act in '96 that replaced AFDC (Aid for Families with Dependent Children) with TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families). And even before then, there was only scant evidence that such a phenomenon occurred. Do you have a citation for that? (EDIT: It also allowed states to redirect federal welfare funds to unrelated purposes. Try living on 110/mo in Mississippi, for example. Let alone affording an iPhone. Plus in all states, there is some work requirement. [1]) [1] http://www.mdhs.state.ms.us/ea_tanf.html http://www.mdhs.state.ms.us/ea_tanf.html
  - robomartin 13y ago
    Well, maybe i am wrong on it being purely a welfare effect. There are many other inputs in that system. Search youtube on how to make money for having babies as an example. Food stamps are another input. For quite some time Russian immigrants coming into Los Angeles had a reputation for piling into homes/appartments and milking every ounce of available government assistance, even to the extreme of keeping quiet when a relative died in order to retain benefits. In addition to that, they developed an extensive under the table cash black market. They would work for cash, earn government benefits, not pay taxes and make tons of money. They were quite fond of Cadillacs and Mercedes Benz. A couple of friends of mine were cops covering some of these areas of LA. They have stories that would make anyone's head spin. My point, perhaps, is that people are resoursefull when it comes to these things and come up with amazing ways to game the system. Most recently the LAUSD has been handing out iPads to students. They quickly figured out how to unlock them. It also looks like some of them probably evaporated, surely making their way onto Craigs List or eBay. What ends up happening is that those who actually live an honest life and end-up supporting untold layers of deadbeats created and empowered by the State. My cop friends are Democrats to the bone but their "faith" regarding some of these programs was rocked a long time ago because they saw first hand what the programs can turn people into.

psuter 13y ago

One thing to consider is that today in Switzerland if you don't work you can already get around 2000CHF/mo in social programs and health insurance subsidies. (Most) people work nevertheless, if only because working brings you much more than a wage.