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The Frameless Geodesic Dome I currently live in
- osivertsson 13y agoBeautiful and inspiring. Posts like this is what makes HN great.
- brucehauman 13y agoThanks man, I really appreciate that.
- nathanbatson 13y agoWhat kind of rvalue are you able to get from the structure? I'm wondering if this would be viable for colder climates.
- brucehauman 13y agoThe R value for two layers of blueboard foam is 7.5 plus the r value of the corrugated plastic. But the structure is pretty darn tight and the shape tends hold heat much better than I expected. You can always add more insulation layers and get more R value.
- leokun 13y agoDoes it have plumbing?
- brucehauman 13y agoNo plumbing but it's certainly possible.
- mrgoldenbrown 13y agoSo do you live in this or is it just a workspace? EDIT: Duh, the title says "live in", so I guess you do :) Maybe I read too fast but I didn't see anything about cooking, bathroom needs, and showering, so I got confused.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- deletes 13y agoHow does it fair again strong winds in a storm and occasional hail? Is the isolation good enough to provide comfort in environment ranging from 35°C to -15°C ? What is your solution for a bathroom? Where do you shower?
- aclevername 13y agoThis. I'm curious as to how the bathroom is laid out, where you go for any and all of those purposes. This "house" is missing a lot of viable (standard) infrastructure to be considered what we usually call a house in North America. It's closer to that of a very small travel trailer, or a tent. All in all I still love the idea.
- grannyg00se 13y agoI suppose standard infrastructure is out of scope. "If you are considering a canvas dome, teepee, or yurt you should consider building a frameless dome" For bathroom activities, I would suggest some kind of humanure solution.
- flanbiscuit 13y agolooks to me like it doesn't have a bathroom and you are supposed to go outside (or in an outhouse). I'm also curious how this will hold up against strong weather conditions... heck even light weather conditions
- onehp 13y agoAt the low cost for that dome I'd be pretty tempted to stick another one on and divide it in two for kitchen and bathroom.
- nobodysfool 13y agoThis doesn't have a bathroom, it's just a place to sleep and work. Think of it like a workroom, or greenhouse. It was built on a foundation of masonry blocks and 2x4s If you wanted plumbing, you could certainly add it. That's the idea, you build it yourself.
- tonyarkles 13y agoThis is super fascinating! You mention snow, but I didn't notice what part of the world you're living in. I'd be curious about building something like this, but I'm in a part of Canada where -40 and LOTS of snow is a real possibility.
- brucehauman 13y agoIf you have lots of snow, then I would advise a sparse frame , imagine an outline of octagons and pentagons but not the internal triangles, more insulation would also be required.
- brucehauman 13y agoI live in the mountains of North Carolina: A temperate but very wet area.
- michaelt 13y agoIn my country I'm not sure what the legal situation would be - as I understand it you can't just throw up a trailer park where you want. And a plot of land with permission for a permanent residence is worth about half the cost of a house. What's the legal situation in your country? Have you ever invited girls home, and if so how did they react? I think your dome looks awesome and fascinating, but I don't know if everyone would be so enthusiastic?
- scotty79 13y ago> Have you ever invited girls home, and if so how did they react? Some standup comediant joked that if women agreed to have sex in cardboard boxes, men wouldn't buy houses.
- cgag 13y agohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA#t=0m35s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA#t=0m35s
- makmanalp 13y agoActually what I'm wondering is how you conform to building and fire codes, etc.
- ams6110 13y agoThose things are largely ignored in rural areas, unless there is a complaint. Believe me I've seen people living in structures that violate every building, electrical, and plumbing code in the book, but out in the backwoods nobody cares.
- baddox 13y agoJust yesterday I found this fellow Paul Elkins via YouTube. He makes some cool (smaller) shelters as well. Like this: http://www.elkinsdiy.com/survival/rapid-coroshelter/ http://www.elkinsdiy.com/survival/rapid-coroshelter/
- eksith 13y agoI love it! I especially like that it is in fact a closer to a proper dome rather than a flat faceted solid since the panels are flexible. It reminds me of an igloo. We get a fair amount of snow, so if I went about this, there would probably be a frame underneath. There are plenty of tutorials on the web for the assembly of geodesic structures. This touches on another project that didn't quite take off called the "Icopod" http://eksith.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/icopod http://eksith.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/icopod The idea was very similar, but I think the original designer became disinterested and moved onto other things. The fact that you provided exact shapes and sizes makes me more hopeful.
- ctdonath 13y agoBravo! Fantastic attempt (thinking way outside the box), with interesting results (low cost, rapid construction). Great step in the tiny house concept. Not sure how to reconcile the shape with societal expectations, as we're trained to expect 3+ rooms with rectangular layout (even "tiny homes" adhere). Does look a bit tight inside, at least for usable floorspace juxtaposed with headroom. Cost is impressive (low), but might need something of a sales pitch to motivate living in the 4-digit expense. I'm most impressed that you did it. Would love the opportunity to try it myself (alas, priorities).
- umsm 13y agoOne issue with deviating from the standard rectangular construction is that furniture is designed to fit in square spaces. Beds, tables, chairs, etc. are mostly rectangular.
- jdnier 13y agoAny concerns about living surrounded by all that polystyrene blueboard? Either indoor air quality or flammability? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene#Fire_hazards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene#Fire_hazards
- brucehauman 13y agoThis is definitely a consideration and a trade off. I don't advocate having a wood stove in this structure. I haven't done any tests for air quality. The polystrene isn't exposed that much on the interior. But this is a really good question which applys to all structures that use this material.
- johnnyg 13y agoLoved this post. I think my favorite part was "I have iterated on this idea a bit." where you post the fails. It can get discouraging looking at all the beautiful stuff posted and thinking it just sprang out of nothing. Clearly this is neat because you put a lot of work into making it so. Thanks for taking the time to write it up and share it.
- wehadfun 13y agoMy favorite line was "Housing is a major expense that is ripe for pruning."
- jwallaceparker 13y agoLooks great! Key question: do the ladies like it?
- quadlock 13y agoI like how the plastic panels overlap to prevent leaking as framed geodesic domes often have leaking problems.
- adaml_623 13y agoI like geodesics but I don't think they are any more practical than a Yurt. This link is written by somebody with quite a lot of experience with domes. http://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/domebuilders_blues.html http://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/domebuilders_blues.html
- brucehauman 13y agoPlease read the post. My post is essentially a response to the many problems of building domes.
- wffurr 13y agoYou ignored the vast majority of the practical problems pointed out in the parent link. Plumbing, roof pitch, acoustics, privacy, ventilation, insulation, etc.
- grannyg00se 13y agoI think plumbing was solved by not including it. Acoustics can be solved by not having a loud child living in there with you as can privacy. Ventilation, insulation, etc, all easy to deal with if you don't concern yourself with building codes.
- fusiongyro 13y agoYou and the author are free to ignore these problems (at least, until the government evicts you from your own residence) but don't conflate ignoring a problem with solving it.
- grannyg00se 13y agoDoes that happen with non permanent structures? I don't count the problems as ignored. They're actually not relevant for the intended use case.
- num3ric 13y agoThis homebuilt dome might interest you: http://youtu.be/OQu_FaTKkiE?t=4m46s http://youtu.be/OQu_FaTKkiE?t=4m46s This guy's a classic: "My name is Jamie, and I have decided to build a giant robot damnit!"
- staunch 13y agoI wonder how many people could make money putting a couple of these in their backyards and renting them out on Airbnb.
- fusiongyro 13y agoI say try it. The televised court proceedings will make excellent low-cost entertainment for me.
- ajmurmann 13y agoIt would be very interesting to see the door. Anything I can think off would easier break the structure of the dome or be awkward.
- brucehauman 13y agoThe door is in the last photo at the top of the post. It is essentially a round door that functions much the way cooler lid functions. There is a wood frame to support the opening in the structure.
- zzzeek 13y agowhat's the story on kitchen / food ? (oh right and plumbing, bathrooms, etc). for this to scale up, we are looking to replace having a traditional house right nearby, right? are you doing all takeout or something like a camping stove outdoors ?
- state 13y agoWhat's really refreshing about this is that it opens up something we think of as completely static (housing) to the possibility of continuous improvement. I really appreciate the effort to refine the structure. Our concept of improving our immediate environment almost never extends to the walls themselves. Clearly your approach is not for everyone, but it's great that you have taken the time to share your experience since it will likely push likeminded others towards experimenting as well. As an aside, I have some limited experience with these: http://shelter-systems.com/ http://shelter-systems.com/ and it has been a fun and simple place to start. Since they're without a foundation I think they're considered 'temporary structures' in California so they don't require any permits. Great work!
- umsm 13y agoThis particular post presents a very interesting structure / design. But I don't see this solving any major issue. There seem to be better alternatives to this that solve "housing issues". Why wouldn't you build a log cabin instead of something like this?
- ebbv 13y agoWhile neat this seems to offer zero advantages in reality vs. traditional housing, unless you're a lone hermit living away from everyone else. Assuming you have 10-20 people to house, each person having their own dome seems less efficient than building a more traditional house with shared kitchen, bathroom, etc. facilities, since the dome cannot contain those, at least without scaling up significantly at which point its utilization of space becomes really inefficient. EDIT: To clarify I'm assuming that: A) He's living a commune with this, and sharing cooking/bathroom facilities with others. Thus my comment abotu 10-20 people to house. B) The point is efficiency/ease of housing people. I don't think a bunch of individual (or 2-3 person domes) is any more efficient than one or two traditional houses to hold everyone and all the facilities needed.
- grannyg00se 13y agoHow are two traditional houses going to house 20 people?
- ebbv 13y agoI dunno if you know this but you can build them pretty big pretty easily. And you can easily fit 2-4 people per bedroom if you build them spaciously and people are willing to sleep in the size of beds featured in the dome.
- sp332 13y agoI've stayed in this house http://i.imgur.com/EgZRY9g.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EgZRY9g.jpg It easily held 30 people. There was a large upstairs room with many beds side-by-side, and 5 other small rooms with one or two bunk beds each. This left the downstairs mostly open with a big kitchen, two medium-sized meeting/dining rooms, and a big classroom.
- grannyg00se 13y agoWow, that's a huge looking house. How is that more efficient though?
- codezero 13y agoCheap housing is good, but isn't a bigger problem the lack of property? OK, I can afford to build one of these, but where do I put it?
- ctdonath 13y agoSeems we need a study considering the juxtaposition of property costs, property size, housing cost, housing size, and (oh, how to say this tactfully) social strata.
- krmmalik 13y agoI'm really interested in ideas like this. There isn't enough innovation in alternative housing. The cost of buying a house in the UK is astronomical. Even a flat-pack build is still very expensive although a fair bit cheaper than brick and mortar, but you still have to buy land and deal with regulatory policies with regards to construction.
- contingencies 13y agoThere's loads of info out there on websites and torrents, which I've spent the last year or two devouring. The main thing is to understand where you might like to live and find a technique that's suitable. If you're happy to move somewhat outside of a city, I'd recommend checking out information around straw building in particular... it's pretty impressive in terms of cost, longevity, seismic, audio and thermal insulation properties and is well proven, and suits a surprising range of climates.
- krmmalik 13y agoThanks! I may come back to you personally for some more information at some point . The biggest challenge in the UK for any kind of alternative construction is still the price of the land. Have you discovered any ways to overcome this challenge?
- contingencies 13y agoThe UK is almost (bar perhaps Singapore) a worst case scenario: huge land holdings by a small number of established parties, all jobs in essentially one area, and a culture of huge numbers of people living in cramped housing which reduces the demand for proper living space. I lived there for a year and have visited a few other times myself, plus I have a friend from there with a strong interest in alternative construction techniques who is presently searching for a solution to this issue himself. According to him, getting permits to build pretty much anything is really expensive and difficult, which represents an even greater hurdle than the cost of land. On the plus side, a subset of the out-of-town transit links are quite OK if your work in some parts of London or remote. If I were you I would look about 40min or 1hr commute out by train for special situations (long term land minding, basic groundskeeping on estates for free accomodation, etc.) and/or try to ingratiate yourself with someone with significant landholdings who wouldn't mind carving off a portion to a friend at an agreeable price. Honestly though, why not just leave the UK? It's not really that exciting. France is far cheaper, you get brilliant food, and the people are less football thug slash coke-snortin' bankerish. If you really want to go to London, you can live in Brittany and get a ferry back now and then for not that much money.
- jostmey 13y agoWhere's the bathroom?
- alex_doom 13y agoI wonder how long it takes to assemble/disassemble. Might be a interesting structure at Burning Man.
- S4M 13y agoIt's really cool, but how do you deal with the problem of burglary?
- mattjaynes 13y agoThis is awesome. I especially love his focus on reducing the complex down to the very simple. He put a lot of work into simplifying the design and the payoff was huge - only 3 shapes make up the whole thing! From the article: "The three shapes we derived above amount to a remarkable simplification in fabrication and construction. We have decimated the complexity of the dome." "Decimated" is the perfect word for it. Here's a related gratuitous simplicity quote from Rich Hickey (of Clojure fame): "Simplicity is hard work. But, there's a huge payoff. The person who has a genuinely simpler system - a system made out of genuinely simple parts, is going to be able to affect the greatest change with the least work. He's going to kick your ass. He's gonna spend more time simplifying things up front and in the long haul he's gonna wipe the plate with you because he'll have that ability to change things when you're struggling to push elephants around." http://devopsu.com/blog/simplicity-is-key/ http://devopsu.com/blog/simplicity-is-key/
- finnh 13y agoActually, "decimated" is not the perfect word for it. He's done much better than mere decimation! (Decimated means "reduced by 1/10th" ... not, as is popularly believed, "reduced to 1/10th")
- gamegoblin 13y agoWhile that is the origin of the word, to pretend it still only means that is pretty delusional. Words change meaning based on usage.
- finnh 13y agosure, I'm being pedantic. But, if it's called out as "the perfect word" I assume the OP would want to know (just like I welcomed the correction when I first learned it).
- monkeynotes 13y agoIf we are going to be pedantic I will point out an accepted dictionary definition of 'decimate' is as follows: > to destroy a great number or proportion of: The population was decimated by a plague. If the acceptance criteria of for use as 'the perfect word' is that it matches as precisely as possible to its definition then I think the OP was on track. I think it is interesting trivia that the origins of the word come from the violence of the Roman army, but to assert that is the only way the word is used in modern English is wrong. I blame Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast for the recent surge in smug people 'correcting' the use of this word.
- VikingCoder 13y agoCan we get a PDF that's 164 pages long, that has each part on its own page that we could print on 8.5x11 paper (centering it, since you used 4x8 sheets)? Then we could print out own version of what you created, and use some kind of fastener (tape? glue?) to put it together...
- brucehauman 13y agoActually I think this is a wonderful idea.
- volokoumphetico 13y agoit would be nice if you could carry this in your pocket and you add water to the tiny pocket sized cylinder labelled "Capsule Corp." and yell "HOY POY" and it will spring to life, complete with furnitures, your computer and everything.
- BrandonMarc 13y agoArthur Weasley had something a lot like that ...
- volokoumphetico 13y agoguess nobody got the Dragonball reference. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- zwieback 13y agoI like it for what it is and enoyed reading the post a lot but it's really not a housing alternative.
- Zarathust 13y agoI really like having hot running water and a shower in my home. Lets say that I'm willing to pay extra for this.
- kpennell 13y agoFor those who want to work on their projects and live cheap, I've seen: Live in your car and have a hackerspace and gym membership: http://www.quora.com/Would-becoming-homeless-be-a-good-strategy-to-cut-costs-1 http://www.quora.com/Would-becoming-homeless-be-a-good-strat... Hide out at AOL office Be homeless in Swedish forest Move to foreign country where it's cheaper to live Move to a dome Added it to the list!
- jquery 13y agoI love how manufactured homes aren't on this list. Oh wait, I forgot this whole thing was about status and "conspicuous authenticity", not about actually living cheaply.
- yetanotherphd 13y ago"conspicuous authenticity" I like that.
- dalke 13y agoI noticed that "get roommates" also wasn't on the list.
- graue 13y agoLiteral roommates — who share a sleeping room? Or flatmates who just share an apartment living room, kitchen, etc? I've never not lived with the second kind of roommates (as an adult), but in a city like NYC or SF, that still is much more expensive than the stuff on the list.
- dalke 13y agoEither would be appropriate, though I did mean flatmates. In college I and many other adults had literal roommate, including some who lived in off-campus apartments. My father tells a story, back in the 1960s, of a place he lived for a few months where there were more people than beds. They used hot-bunking, since some worked nights. In any case, if your reference is living in a city like NYC or SF then the item "Move to foreign country where it's cheaper to live" should be changed to the more generic "Move to a place where it's cheaper to live." The emphasis on "foreign country" is why I agree with jquery's comment that the list is 'about status and "conspicuous authenticity", not about actually living cheaply.' If you can work in a forest in Sweden, then you can also work in Buffalo, where the cost of living is about 1/2 of that NYC. Or for that matter, you can work from a forest in New York State, and save the price of airfare.
- finnh 13y agoIf you want to live in a city, it's not the cost of the house that kills you: it's the dirt. In Seattle, where I live, my property tax statement tells me that my (large, nice) house is worth roughly half as much as the land it sits on. Given that these domes don't float, you still need a place to put 'em. If your goal is to opt out of the cost of housing - an evil which this blog post expounds upon at length - your first order of business isn't so much "what to live in" but "where is it going to be".
- brucehauman 13y agoI agree with your statement whole heartedly. There are trade-offs to everything. I hope that you don't think I am claiming to have solved the housing issue. I am simply offering an "alternative" alternative structure. But there is a place for them and it works for me. Please see the tiny housing / simplification movement for discussion about the trade offs of relocating and living simply. It's not for everyone.
- finnh 13y agoI used to live in a pretty small house. I loved it. Then I had two kids =) EDIT: added smileyface.
- samstave 13y agoYeah, as a father to three... all I could think of when reading the article was "The bliss of ignorance a 20-something, single kid-less person has... if only I could live in a Dome with no restroom"!
- gbog 13y agoWell, ahem, you may be aware that in some places in the world some families have plenty of kids and no restrooms in their houses. Actually there is quite a lot of them. Restrooms is not the problem here, the problem is this focus on frameless structure. Why not just doing a tent, like in so many traditional cultures? It must be easier to build and may even be more pleasing to the eyes.
- FriedPickles 13y agoFirst acceptable use of the word "synergy" I've seen in a long time!
- jquery 13y agoThe efficient-home problem has already been solved. We call them manufactured homes. They're cheap, and are actually up-to-code for long-term living.
- RyJones 13y agothey're cheap to acquire, but long-term, not so good. They're also very flimsy, so everything sort-of goes at once. Yes, you can spend a lot more on one and get nicer finishes, but the end state is the floor sags and none of the doors shut.
- jquery 13y agoIt depends on what you mean by long-term and probably how well you take care of it. Growing up, I lived in one for years with no issues. So did my best friend, for even longer (at least a decade, no issues with sagging or warping). And this was in the rainy, wet Pacific Northwest. I dare say they are better built than the flimsy plastic tent we saw linked in the OP.
- stevewilhelm 13y agoAh, what's old is new again. http://www.bagginsend.net/ http://www.bagginsend.net/
- xradionut 13y agoI live in tornado alley in a area with extremely summer temps and the occasional wild fire. These are the domes we recommend: http://www.monolithic.com/ http://www.monolithic.com/
- stcredzero 13y agoMonolithic domes are a wonder and a seeming paradox. You get an earthquake-proof, tornado-proof, bullet-proof, bomb-proof, collision-with-a-barrelling-semi-proof reinforced concrete structure that goes up almost instantly. But if you get a pin-prick in the vinyl airform, you have to deal with vapor-drive of water into the polyurethane foam, and your structure gets damaged. http://www.monolithic.com/stories/vapor-drive http://www.monolithic.com/stories/vapor-drive That said, there are ways of protecting your air-form, and if you do that, these things look to be nigh indestructible.
- erikig 13y agoI enjoyed his write-up, his discussions on motivations, as well as the pictures of his early attempts. I'm a big fan of thinking outside the box (pun intended). Somewhat related to his thoughts on home structures is the shipping container home movement that has been gradually picking up steam. Insulated shipping containers make great home frames and it would be nice to see similar grassroots discussions on the challenges of setting them up as well as success stories.
- crb002 13y agoOnly the shell remains in Montreal. The dome plastic burned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Biosph%C3%A8re http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Biosph%C3%A8re
- zacjszewczyk 13y agoAbsolutely loved this article. Very impressive! I really hope you go on to write more about this dome. I would be very, very interesting in reading more about its construction and some of the challenges you faced along the way.
- ChuckMcM 13y agoExcellent article, love the simplification. I recall reading about a guy who was building houses out of burlap bags and dirt and trying to get them approved as acceptable habitable structures in California and was running into all sorts of roadblocks.
- seansoutpost 13y agoTis is really awesome. If it's cool with you, I'm going to build one of these to house homeless is Satoshi Forest (http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6939/seans-outpost-announces-satoshi-forest/ http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6939/seans-outpost-announces-sato...). Seems like a rather elegant solution.
- robododo 13y agoSo... plastic + blue foam + blue foam + plastic. This sounds extremely flammable. Are any of your materials actually code-rated for a living structure (as you're using them)? Last I checked, stuff like blue foam board needs to be used in specific ways, such as behind fire-rated walls. You cannot leave any of it exposed, or it's a fire hazard.
- dugmartin 13y agoFlame retardant corrugated plastic sheets do exist (my brother used several hundred of them for an event inside a hotel). I'm not sure if it would be enough of a firewall for blueboard though.
- brudgers 13y agoAs an architect, I appreciate many of the ideas expressed via the design - in particular seeking a reduced footprint. However, while many US jurisdictions might not require a building permit for this structure due to its size, it would typically not be exempt from building codes and as a habitable structure and more importantly as a dwelling, the design does not meet fundamental principles embodied in modern building codes. While the principle of occupant safety is fairly obvious and its susceptibility to liberatarian objections predicable, the code embodies a further less obvious principle, that of first responder safety. Doors and windows have size and operational requirements to allow fire-fighters to get in and back out. Structural systems have structural requirements and combustibility limits for the same reason. Buildings need to be anchored to keep them from blowing into neighboring structures in a storm. Most people are urbanized, and the structural problems of housing is harder than can be solved by tents in the wilderness. Anyplace that this is a viable alternative for long term dwelling, it is likely that so is a used trailer or a building of recycled and scavenged materials. Again, I appreciate the design and the aesthetic effort and the ideas it expresses. I just can't get carried away over an academic exercise.
- tjic 13y ago> While the principle of occupant safety is fairly obvious and its susceptibility to liberatarian objections predicable As an extreme libertarian (an anarcho capitalist) and as a pretty experienced builder, I'd like to say that no libertarian I've met is against the concept of occupant safety. We are, however, fairly likely to be against the assertion that government regulations are the only way to achieve this, or the best way. Underwriter's Labs is an example many libertarians invoke: a private free-market safety licensing firm that other firms voluntarily pay for, so that they can advertise to consumers the safety of their products. I note that government regulation is subject to regulatory capture: one-pipe urinals (non flushing) are made illegal because it would result in less work for plumbers, efficient PEX pipes are delayed again because of concerns that it would lower housing costs, engineered lumber that is approved in one area is not approved in others, etc. I build to code (and well above code, sometimes) because I care about safety and I care about craftsmanship, but there is a LOT that's stupid in government regulation.
- peller 13y ago@brucehauman Truly exceptional work. This post literally made my day; I can't thank you enough for spending the time to write and share it. I especially like the smart utilization of 4x8 panels with minimal waste and the tiny BOM required for construction. As someone with a fair amount of construction experience myself, the amount of engineering thought you've put into this project clearly shines through. It's innovators like you who make this world a better place; keep up the great work and don't ever let the critics get under your skin!!
- prawn 13y agoWonder if there'd be interest in a smaller, clear version of this as a greenhouse. Something that could be laser cut and packed down to a postable package. Light enough that you could lift and place it over your seedlings.
- contingencies 13y agoThat degree of structural integrity is overkill for a greenhouse. Just get some bamboo poles with a sheet of transparent plastic and you're done: instant greenhouse.
- prawn 13y agoYou should see my effort at doing that previously. Ugly stuff! Had problems with even a light wind and the plastic staying in place, sagging, etc. What I had in mind with the dome of plates was something that would almost stand out as a feature in the garden. I guess an issue with the dome approach that'd need solving was making it fairly airtight so warm air and moisture would be retained.
- contingencies 13y agoI've seen very large amounts of these things in high wind areas of China. (The Chinese have been very good at transferring the fruits of academic agricultural research to farmers.) The ones I've seen have been very long (say, 20M per structure), usually but not exclusively curved-top, and the plastic has been held down under pressure. Occasionally, depending upon the prevailing environmental conditions, one of the long sides of the structure has its plastic rolled back and pinned up half way, similar to the mechanisms you see on commercially produced tents. Likewise, sometimes the ends are left opened, other times they are closed to minimise air exchange.
- sliverstorm 13y agoI don't follow the opining for the "handcrafted" houses of yore, presumably ones that have been around for the aforementioned 5 generations. Have you lived in such houses? They are generally pretty crappy. Nothing is a standard size (making maintenance a nightmare), any and all building materials have started to break down, and the owners have almost always completely neglect updating the house. For example, replacing their old plate-glass single-pane windows.
- tootie 13y agoWhere does the electricity come from and where does his bodily effluence go?
- saalweachter 13y agoIs this significantly cheaper than a standard frame structure with comparable amenities? I priced out the materials for building a small "office shed" with no electricity or running water, and came up with a price tag of something like $2000 for a 10x10 structure, assuming completely conventional 2x4's, fiberglass insulation, and off-the-shelf doors and windows. I've not yet followed through on it, but I feel pretty confident that you could build a pretty serviceable pretty conventional structure for not-too-much-money in not-too-much-time.
- sp332 13y ago10x10 is half the floor space of this dome.
- saalweachter 13y agoYes. The structure I priced out was also only 8 feet tall. About half the cost -- if I recall -- was doors, windows, and skylights, and the other half was the walls, ceiling, and floor. So you'd expect a structure with roughly double the surface area to be roughly $3000 instead of $2000. Depending on material choices, you would probably end up with a cost of between $2000 and $4000 by the time you put the last coat of paint on it. Again, having not actually followed through I don't have a final bill of materials. I could have over-estimated the cost of something, or forgotten something else entirely. But the point is the same. Is $2100 really that cheap, when compared to a $4000 stick-frame structure with comparable function, or is it only cheap when compared to a $40,000 house with a bathroom, kitchen, furnace, water heater, and appliances?
- olefoo 13y agoAnd if you hit up your local Recycling yard you can often acquire a number of windows and doors at very economical prices. I once stayed at a house that had an entire wall made of doors of varying styles, salvaged building materials can lend a lot of character to a structure.
- contingencies 13y ago
- dalanmiller 13y agoWhere is the toilet.
- jacob_smith 13y agoI would love to see some more of the blog concerning windows/doors/electricity -- any showers or water running to the dome?
- marknowotarski 13y agoAs I look at the dome versus the trees I wonder: Why do animals seek to isolate themselves from the environment and plants seek to permeate it? No judgement, just curious.
- Goladus 13y agoI wouldn't say that's an accurate generalization for all plants. But to the extent it's true, my theory is because most plants are by nature immobile. Sunlight is everywhere so moving much would be a waste of energy. So plants grow, shrink, open, close, turn, hibernate, but they can not move to a more sheltered location. They must stay where their roots are and face whatever hostile conditions they might encounter (winds, cold, snow, rain, predators, etc.). Mobile, food-hunting animals, on the other hand tend to have fewer natural defenses against harsh environmental conditions and predators. So they rely on shelters (found or built) for protection instead. Mammals adapted to a particular type of harsh conditions are less likely to seek shelter from them. (eg American Bison, for example, are adapted to handle cold and snow.) Cold-blooded reptiles may use shelters but at times environment may compel them to leave the shelter in order to bask in the sun to increase their body temperature. It's also partly a semantic issue. "Environment" tends to imply a background that contains mobile actors. Stationary plants thus are environment, moreso than animals.
- contingencies 13y agoNeither of you mentioned fungi, which we are closer to than plants, and which truly permeate.
- Goladus 13y agoHeh I thought of fungi (and bacteria and fish and plankton) but post was already too long and complicated for the point I wanted to make.
- dalke 13y agoSteward Brand, in "How Buildings Learn: What Happens After They’re Built", "asserts that the best buildings are made from low-cost, standard designs that people are familiar with, and easy to modify. In this way people can gradually change their buildings to meet their needs." (Quoting Wikipedia.) One example was living in a trailer in New Mexico, which can be winterized by surrounding it by straw bales, then turned into walls, and expanded as needed. Another was living in an old wooden boat, on land, where it was trivial to cut a hole if you wanted it. That's much in line with the philosophy behind this dome, which several others here agree with. However, Brand also specifically dislikes domes, because they are difficult to expand, or to add internal divisions. For a single person, who does not need partitions or extra space, this is not a problem. (Nor would it be a problem if it were cheap to tear down and rebuild an entirely new structure.) For a family or group of people, it is less tenable, as others here have also pointed out.
- shadowOfShadow 13y agoWhere's the geodesic toilet?
- kingmanaz 13y agoCorrugated steel is an often overlooked building material, particularly for tiny houses: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Z4MwyfNR-Ek/TbNYZHvul_I/AAAAAAAAY50/6lPgfLMFfUs/s1600/P1000286+%255B1024x768%255D.JPG http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Z4MwyfNR-Ek/TbNYZHvul_I/AAAAAAAAY5... Photo taken in Chloride, AZ. Many of the small homes in the town have their original iron siding and are well over 100 years old. This book has more information: http://www.amazon.com/Corrugated-Iron-Simon-Holloway-Mornement/dp/0711226547/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378773939&sr=8-1&keywords=corrugated+iron http://www.amazon.com/Corrugated-Iron-Simon-Holloway-Morneme...
- ChrisNorstrom 13y agoYou know what would be awesome. If everyone on Hacker News pitched into a fund, bought some land out in the middle a beautiful but isolated place in the rockies and created a weekend getaway for coders using something similar to these little Geodesic Dome houses.
- LAMike 13y agoHacker paradise... with farming powered by Aurdiuno robots and a mini hyperloop that takes you anywhre on the property in a second haha
- contingencies 13y agoI'm working on it in New Zealand.
- micro_cam 13y agoMy parent's moved to the rural north west in the early 70's and knew people who attempted the dome lifestyle. By the time I was born in 1981 they had all moved on and built traditional houses. There are issues with domes that aren't apparent to the novice builder. Besides questions about if being an efficient use of space the numerous angled joints make them very difficult to weather seal/roof so they tend to leak. A simple, passive solar rectangular design from sips (structured insulating panels) is much more efficient and quicker to put up. You order the panels pre built and routed for doors/windows/plumbing. Rectangular panels means you need to bolt them together in fewer places. I think david wright's high sierra cabin is a great example of what is possible using this construction method: http://davidwrightarchitect.com/cabins/ http://davidwrightarchitect.com/cabins/ THough i have also seen simpler plans more in line with this dome.
- sopooneo 13y agoMy little backwater hometown in Maine raged with ideas like this in the seventies, just before I entered the world. One or two families still live in buildings of similar feel. But most got normal walls with plumbing and lots of TV's once the children outnumbered. A few of my generation picked up the torch in the nineties, and I happen to know of one off-the-grid dome lived in by a classmate of mine. Though he's married now and no matter how much "Little House" she has read, I find it's a rare wife that wouldn't prefer a conventional stove by year five or so. So when I see these posts I smile for my own parents' optimism and naivete. And I also feel desperately, overwhelmingly homesick. That garden reads as Eden to my eye. So props to the builder. I hope you make lots of great memories there.
- SamBoogie 13y agoDope. All hail Bucky!
- hippich 13y agoWhere is restroom?
- wolfv 13y agoThanks for the post Bruce. Have you considered applying aluminum foil to the outer shell with contact cement, to eliminate solar gain and plastic breakdown?
- ommunist 13y agoIn the UK materials cost goes roughly the same nominal, only in GBP. Makes such projects more expensive, but does not make them less attractive. Thank you for sharing.
- justnope 13y agoCharlatan.
- batemanesque 13y agogiven that so many people don't have any access to housing at all it seems somewhat myopic to criticize the fact that construction generally aims for efficiency rather than beauty. the dome looks nice but is stuff like this really a viable alternative for anyone other than a small well-off slice of the population? how does the cost of not having a kitchen compare to what you save in building materials?
- sequoia 13y agoWhat land is this put on? Did you buy it or is it a friend's? Maybe I missed that part, I didn't read the whole article closely; it's kind of an important question because it may change your project price from $2,100 to $302,100 depending on your location. A search for "toilet" "bathroom" and "poop" yielded no results however, as did searches for "kitchen" "cook" "stove" and "range." Assuming OP eats food (hackers still do that, no?) and poops, it seems there is more to this living arrangement than is described in this article. I don't know the situation but put a gun to my head and force me to speculate and I'll say "This guy is living on a friend's land & relying on the resources in his friend's house." There's no shame in that but it's disingenuous to sweep it under the rug and pretend your abode is an "alternative" to a house when it in fact relies on a house.
- jonnathanson 13y agoIt's got to be something like that. Either that, or he's living on public land somewhere -- and if so, he's probably in violation of at least a few laws, and is in danger of getting kicked out (or even arrested) if found. Alternatively, he owns some land and simply built this dome on it instead of a traditional house. The latter shows a remarkable amount of self-discipline, restraint, and delightful eccentricity, but it hides what is probably a major cost, i.e., the land itself. Don't get me wrong; I found the article really cool. Really cool. Inspiring, in a way. And major props to the author for hacking this all together. But I agree: there's a side of this story not being discussed, and it's a pretty important side. Implying that someone can live on little more than $2,100 in building materials seems like a bit of a stretch, and I'm curious to know how much of one.
- graue 13y agoThe author comments elsewhere that there's no plumbing[1], and that this is in the mountains of North Carolina[2] (presumably near Asheville, which his twitter bio lists as a location). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6355787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6355787 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6355875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6355875
- lazyant 13y agoLove to see people building and trying out things. Some architect correct me but isn't a spherical-shaped house the worst case scenario for insulation? you have the biggest volume of air to heat/cool down with the largest surface to insulate and for heat to come in or go out, plus a pretty small surface footprint.
- sp332 13y agoA sphere gives the most internal volume for the least surface area.
- Goladus 13y agoThe main question I have is not how hard it would be to stack these as with an apartment building, but how hard would it be to connect a small network of these into a single-floor house with rooms for different purposes?
- fakename 13y agopaging @FalseMedium
- GDieken 13y agoThe reason geodesic homes didn't make it out of the 70s (except at Burning Man and radar installations) is that you can't build a structure more prone to leaking in the rain or even a heavy dew. Solve that problem and domes become a meaningful option. Otherwise they're a mental exercise.
- Pitarou 13y agoShingling. And if you check the post carefully, you'll see that it is carefully designed so the pieces overlap like shingles.
- bwooce 13y agoDome houses are initially appealing but ultimately and practically have too many flaws to be useful. Single room houses may be an exception. Read this http://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/domebuilder's_blues.html http://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/domebuilder's_blues.html and see how many of the concerns are addressed in this design. Lloyd was passionate about domes, but came to realize their flaws. Most of these are applicable today despite the materials improvements over the last 30+ years.
- hardworkisfun 13y agoWow awesome, love your writing and thinking Bruce. Would love to hear more about your thoughts on doing what you want, despite not getting paid for it and minimizing your lifestyle.
- Pitarou 13y agoI just want to highlight what's important about this design: IT'S FRAMELESS This drastically brings down the costs. There are still disadvantages, of course -- the inflexible shape and lack of large, flat, vertical surfaces is a problem for most applications -- but the dome is now so much cheaper that, in some niches, they're worth a second look. I can well imagine, for instance, mass-produced geodesic haybarns based on this design.
- tedsy 13y agoBrilliant! And smooth abd clean. Saw it on Boing. I helped build a dome in the late 60's. I think it ended up like your total utter failure - but I was gone by then. I like the idea of using such a thing as a (flat) roof-top shelter on a garage or something (me downtowner). And I'm highly amused that all the commentary I had the stamina to scan was about housing prices and nothing about structure. cheers, Good Luck, Tedsy
- boofitz 13y agoWhen I saw this, my 1st thought was how useful these would be in refugee camps: much more humane housing than tents!
- wholeo 13y agoHaving lived in a 16' dome based on Fuller's bamboo dome for two years, my main interest in your Frameless Dome was how the bolt holes and seams were waterproofed. Also, how did you reach the outer panels for replacement? And how did that affect the waterproofing. You said it was easy. But how exactly.
- Ratso 13y agoI really like this. I live in the country and I'm currently in a 2400 square foot house but I want to downsize. I could see having one of these as well as something else like a shipping container or Quonset hut (I live in a hurricane area so I'd need to have something I could ride one out in if necessary -- though I wonder if your design would have similar functionality to the geodesic radar domes in the far north). Do you have more pictures from when you constructed it? I'd like to see the individual shapes comprised of the corrugated polystyrene and foam insulation and a close up of how the bolts work. Where did you buy the large pieces of polystyrene? I have similar motivations as you, I want to live cheaply and learn new programming.