7 ms·

I respectfully disagree. Get some decent HR people and don't give them the last call on hiring decisions. Make it clear that HR is supporting the process, but n

I respectfully disagree. Get some decent HR people and don't give them the last call on hiring decisions. Make it clear that HR is supporting the process, but not leading the process and that the last call is with the department/team that is looking for a hire. Let HR take all the tedious tasks of hiring from the developers, such as all the legalese, handling employee benefits, sick reports and all associated paperwork, but do not let them define the flow of a hiring process. Developer time is far to valuable to be wasted on mainly administrative side-tasks.

Retric 13y ago
Be careful, if HR screens resumes then they effectivly have a last call on highering decisions by rejecting people before anyone else sees them. From what I have seen the only useful function for HR in the highering process is a background verification check. Aka did John Smith work at your company from 2000-2004. Anything else is risky.
- RougeFemme 13y ago
  I agree that HR can screen out some otherwise qualified people. I've seen that from both sides. But I think that if the criteria you provide to HR are sufficiently broad and high-level, they can be helpful. If the candidate clearly has no relevant (as defined by the hiring team/manager) education or experience, HR doesn't need to send that one down.
  - hackula1 13y ago
    I think the worry would be that HR will miss a lot of people with relevant experience. "Oh, John Smith only has experience in C#, but we need someone with experience in .Net".
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      A partial solution to that is a better briefing and education for the HR team. Another partial solution is to make the selection criteria broader. Make clear that they should include the candidate when in doubt. But if for example you're looking for a team lead for an important project, you can certainly specify requirements that the HR team can handle, such as "must have 5 years of work experience. Must have team lead experience." etc.
flexie 13y ago
I don't think there is a need to "respectfully disagree" to a disrespectful comment. Just like there are terrible dev teams there are terrible HR departments, and this sounds like one of them. But as you mention, if developers were to handle everything related to hiring, firing, sick reports, vacation, benefits, contracts, compliance etc. that HR does, I doubt there would be any profit.
- Fuxy 13y ago
  Are there good HR departments? I haven't had the honor of seeing any so by my book they're classified in the same section as unicorns and fairies.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > Are there good HR departments? That depends. Are they staffed by psychologists? If yes, then no. Psychology and psychological testing are losing credibility very rapidly right now: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201305/the-nimh-withdraws-support-dsm-5 http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201305/the-...
    - James_Duval 13y ago
      The article you linked to talks about psychiatry (the DSM is tightly bound to psychiatry, not psychology). I don't know if you meant by including that link that psychologists criticising psychiatrists undermines their credibility, but if that's the case I disagree strongly.
      - lutusp 13y ago
        > The article you linked to talks about psychiatry (the DSM is tightly bound to psychiatry, not psychology). Not so. The DSM is the central authority and diagnostic manual for both psychiatry and clinical psychology. Reference: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-diagnosis/201003/how-psychologists-can-help-correct-dsm5 http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-diagnosis/201003/ho... > I don't know if you meant by including that link that psychologists criticising psychiatrists undermines their credibility ... I included the link only to show that the DSM is being abandoned by mental health professionals, not to suggest a schism between psychiatry and psychology. The latter has been true for decades and goes without saying.
jacques_chester 13y ago
The key is to distinguish between organisations that provide a service and organisations that enforce a standard. HR is ideally the former and not the latter.

Retric 13y ago

Be careful, if HR screens resumes then they effectivly have a last call on highering decisions by rejecting people before anyone else sees them. From what I have seen the only useful function for HR in the highering process is a background verification check. Aka did John Smith work at your company from 2000-2004. Anything else is risky.

RougeFemme 13y ago
I agree that HR can screen out some otherwise qualified people. I've seen that from both sides. But I think that if the criteria you provide to HR are sufficiently broad and high-level, they can be helpful. If the candidate clearly has no relevant (as defined by the hiring team/manager) education or experience, HR doesn't need to send that one down.
- hackula1 13y ago
  I think the worry would be that HR will miss a lot of people with relevant experience. "Oh, John Smith only has experience in C#, but we need someone with experience in .Net".
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    A partial solution to that is a better briefing and education for the HR team. Another partial solution is to make the selection criteria broader. Make clear that they should include the candidate when in doubt. But if for example you're looking for a team lead for an important project, you can certainly specify requirements that the HR team can handle, such as "must have 5 years of work experience. Must have team lead experience." etc.

flexie 13y ago

I don't think there is a need to "respectfully disagree" to a disrespectful comment. Just like there are terrible dev teams there are terrible HR departments, and this sounds like one of them. But as you mention, if developers were to handle everything related to hiring, firing, sick reports, vacation, benefits, contracts, compliance etc. that HR does, I doubt there would be any profit.

Fuxy 13y ago
Are there good HR departments? I haven't had the honor of seeing any so by my book they're classified in the same section as unicorns and fairies.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Are there good HR departments? That depends. Are they staffed by psychologists? If yes, then no. Psychology and psychological testing are losing credibility very rapidly right now: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201305/the-nimh-withdraws-support-dsm-5 http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201305/the-...
  - James_Duval 13y ago
    The article you linked to talks about psychiatry (the DSM is tightly bound to psychiatry, not psychology). I don't know if you meant by including that link that psychologists criticising psychiatrists undermines their credibility, but if that's the case I disagree strongly.
    - lutusp 13y ago
      > The article you linked to talks about psychiatry (the DSM is tightly bound to psychiatry, not psychology). Not so. The DSM is the central authority and diagnostic manual for both psychiatry and clinical psychology. Reference: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-diagnosis/201003/how-psychologists-can-help-correct-dsm5 http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-diagnosis/201003/ho... > I don't know if you meant by including that link that psychologists criticising psychiatrists undermines their credibility ... I included the link only to show that the DSM is being abandoned by mental health professionals, not to suggest a schism between psychiatry and psychology. The latter has been true for decades and goes without saying.

jacques_chester 13y ago

The key is to distinguish between organisations that provide a service and organisations that enforce a standard. HR is ideally the former and not the latter.