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Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August
- drpgq 13y agoI'm always surprised that more billionaires don't try interesting off the wall projects when they have so much money. What's the fun of having it, if you can't have the occasional mad scientist moment.
- rorrr2 13y agoI'm more surprised that more billionaires don't build crazy monuments of themselves or just some crazy ones with their name on it.
- Shivetya 13y agosadly that is what politicians do. as to billionaires and there use of money, I am more than happy how some of them turned their fortune into good use. the most obvious being Gates.
- JamesArgo 13y agoThis was pretty common behaviour in Rome.
- hissworks 13y ago"Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
- swamp40 13y agoYou mean like Sheikh Hamad Bin Hamdan Al Ahyan: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016841/Al-Futaysi-island-Hamad-carves-2-miles-long-sand-visible-SPACE.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016841/Al-Futaysi-i...
- samstave 13y agoWOW - he looks like an arabic George Bush.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- podperson 13y agoOne of North Korea's major exports is, apparently, giant statues of people. E.g. (sorry it's a WSJ link...) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703906204575027400440309756.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870390620457502...
- lifeformed 13y agoI hope all billionaires look at Batman for inspiration.
- dfxm12 13y agoThe intersection of billionaires and people with the ability to try interesting, off the wall projects probably isn't very big.
- papercrane 13y agoI was just thinking, it's probably true that most people who try interesting off the wall projects don't become incredibly wealthy.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- wissler 13y agoIt's rare that the creative types end up being billionaires. Note that even Steve Jobs was kicked out of his own company, and then later only barely squeaked into the CEO slot, and only because the company was about dead anyway. He'd never have gotten the job if Skulley hadn't screwed things up quite so bad.
- moomin 13y agoYes, although I feel the need to point out Jobs wasn't the genius behind Apple in the early years, it was Wozniak. Different time, different man.
- Permit 13y agoYeah, if anything Steve Jobs was exactly the "business type" your parent is speaking about. “I was so close to Steve Jobs I could never really see the transition,” Wozniak said. “I just wanted to be in engineering only – I never wanted to run a company, never wanted to run things, step on other people – Steve very clearly did, and wanted to be a top executive and a really important thinker in the world.”[1] [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8956282/Steve-Wozniak-Steve-Jobs-deal-made-me-cry.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8956282/Steve-Woz...
- wissler 13y agoI think Jobs is definitely a creative type, he had a clear and distinct vision that went beyond what most CEO's would ever dream of let alone approve to drive resources into. Being a creative type does not necessarily mean being an engineer.
- moomin 13y agoAbsolutely, but his vision (the Lisa) was the wrong vision at the time. He refined his vision at next (taking in a lot of other people's good ideas along the way) and returned to Apple at just the right time: when the average consumer was ready to pay a bit more for a refined product.
- qwertzlcoatl 13y agoMaybe they want to own a building for each one of their childrens children.
- qwertzlcoatl 13y agoMaybe they want to own a building for each one of their childrens children.
- dm2 13y agoHere's one: http://www.vice.com/read/russian-billionaire-dmitry-itskov-plans-on-becoming-immortal-by-2045 http://www.vice.com/read/russian-billionaire-dmitry-itskov-p... Anyone have a list of billionaire futurists?
- whatusername 13y agoIn Australia we have Clive Palmer. He's building a replica Titanic and a mechatronic Jurassic Park. And now has his own Political party named after himself with candidates in every seat in the country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Palmer_(businessman) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Palmer_(businessman)
- joonix 13y agoI don't see how these projects serve humanity.
- cpeterso 13y agoScience fiction author David Brin has some interesting suggestions for philanthropists looking to create a legacy, such as building a third-world university system, financing a freelance manned mission to Mars, or funding whistleblowers. http://www.davidbrin.com/eon.html http://www.davidbrin.com/eon.html
- robinwarren 13y agoFor anyone wondering what this is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop
- apendleton 13y agoOr rather, wondering what it might be; nobody knows for sure yet except Musk.
- swamp40 13y agoHonestly, the wiki link doesn't give any details on how it works. That's why this announcement is big news.
- non-sense 13y agoClassy! https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/356779314043305985 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/356779314043305985 "I really hate patents unless critical to company survival. Will publish Hyperloop as open source."
- onebaddude 13y ago>"I really hate patents unless critical to company survival" Isn't "critical to company survival" the same defensive argument that every patent holder uses?
- ThomPete 13y agoYes but most of them are wrong.
- kiba 13y agoSpaceX don't patent anything because they thought the Chinese would steal their technologies using the patents itself. It's a different story for Tesla Motors, though.
- rayiner 13y agoI think there is more "secret sauce" in Tesla than in SpaceX. SpaceX is doing great implementations of pretty conservative designs. In any case, both are "product" companies and benefit from patents less than "design" companies. Contrast SpaceX with Mojave Aerospace Ventures (the investment vehicle that owns the Spaceship One IP developed by Scaled Composites).
- cryptoz 13y ago> SpaceX is doing great implementations of pretty conservative designs. Mostly. So far. But very quickly SpaceX will start building things that have never been built before, and I would assume small teams are already working on the designs. Ships like human-rated Mars landers, colony buildings, fuel-creating reactors for Mars, etc.
- nicktelford 13y agoIf this is, as it sounds, a new public transport system, it surprises me a little that he would prefer to develop it in the US. Attitudes towards public transport in general seem more favourable in the EU, Japan, China and South Korea. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I imagine getting such a system built in the EU (for example) would be easier than the US. Then again, Musk has been building a reputation with law-makers in the US for some time, so that might count for a lot.
- _mulder_ 13y agoEuropean attitudes to public transport are certainly more receptive than those in the US. However, European attitudes to big infrastructure projects are a lot more NIMBYish. Asia could be good but then they are quite advanced with high-speed public transport anyways. Plus, Elon doesn't live in Europe or Asia, so why would he?
- Symmetry 13y agoEuropeans have problems with NIMBY, but not nearly to the extent that the US does. It takes about 1/5 as much money to construct a mile of track in France as in the US, and 1/10 in Spain. My guess is that part of the point of the Hyperloop is to get around land use restrictions by going over them, and the largest payoff for that would be in the US where conventional land-based transport is hardest.
- ollysb 13y agoWith regards to NIMBY I'd be very interested in how much external noise would be generated. If it's silent from the outside and all it takes is a nice line of trees to conceal it completely I can't imagine people would have that much of an issue with it.
- rdouble 13y agoHe lives in the US so it's odd that you're surprised.
- shawabawa3 13y ago
- mjs 13y agoWhy announce the publication date in advance? It's not like he needs to disrupt anyone else's futuristic transport plan announcement.
- rdouble 13y agoMaybe to apply social pressure to himself to get it done by that date.
- swamp40 13y agoProbably some combination of: a) He's getting asked a lot. b) By publicly announcing a deadline, everyone involved (including him) will be racing to hit that deadline or lose face. c) He's telling the world "I say what I do and I do what I say".
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- JunkDNA 13y agoThere was that recent PR article that made the rounds here last week from some company allegedly developing an evacuated tube based system that was written in a way to imply they were working on Musk's idea. I would not at all be surprised if he's a little miffed about that and has decided to just get everything out there. Given that they may not actually be working on what he specifically has in mind, there is a risk that his idea gets a bad connotation if someone implements something similar (but not identical) and does it poorly. There is a whole political dimension to this in terms of getting zoning, approvals, etc... and the last thing he needs is for it to be stillborn because a bunch of politicians hear it "was tried and failed".
- hankcharles 13y agois this the company you are referring to? http://www.et3.com/ http://www.et3.com/
- proksoup 13y ago
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- salimmadjd 13y agoEvery startup entrepreneur should learn image making and PR from Musk. For someone who is not very eloquent and a bit tongue-tied he has done an amazing job to become known as the premier visionaries of our time. This also includes making changes to his physical appearance by looking at his old images [1], [2] as well his name brand. [1] http://www.stepbrother.co.za/images/musk2.jpg http://www.stepbrother.co.za/images/musk2.jpg [2] http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18p2ht1rsfinyjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18p2ht1rsfinyjpg/ku-xlarge.j... edit: line breaks added
- tocomment 13y agowow, how did he change his appearance so much?
- temp453463343 13y agoRogain
- TheAnimus 13y agoSlightly O/T. A buddy of mine was saying last night that his lady suggested looking at a hair regrowth product, on inspecting the packaging and marketing material he found the wonderful claim: "Up-to 4 times more effective than a placebo in clinical testing"
- publicfig 13y agoYou would be surprised at how many medicines on the market compare effectivity to placebo. It's mostly done in instances where there is a chance that the drug may not even work. By comparing it to a placebo, you're as close to as you can be to leveling the playing field to show it is more effective than doing nothing.
- andy_boot 13y agoofcourse this claim also included the wonderful phrase: "Up-to " implying that several trials were not so effetive
- cma 13y agoThis is my guess: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040206 Rather than maintain a vacuum hundreds of miles wide, why not just ride along the vacuum that occurs along a very low frequency soundwave (low frequency enough that the wavelength is larger than the vehicle). To visualize: http://profmattstrassler.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wavegaspress1.gif http://profmattstrassler.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wavegas... Since this wave would be going the speed of sound, that could be what he meant by comparing it to a Concord. And since a pressure wave isn't exactly like wind (it would just pass through the vehicle), there would need to be some kind of propulsion that could get the thing going fast and occasionally maintain speed (e.g. the railgun and PV solar part of his idea). I can see many ways to work in the air-hockey portion from his hints which would avoid the cost of mag-lev.. but who knows exactly what approach he will take there...
- steffan 13y agoThe air-hockey element is most likely implemented as a cushion of air around all sides of a vehicle inside a tube - this would explain the "crash-proof" assertion. It would provide near-frictionless travel as well as preventing vehicle-tube collisions.
- tocomment 13y agoThat's a great idea! Wouldn't an underground tunnel be really expensive?
- X4 13y agoLet's bet whose idea comes closest, oh guess that's illegal in the USA and I don't bet anyway :) But betting for fun is legal right (seriously)? my idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6046134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6046134 @cma's idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6046081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6046081 ...
- schiffern 13y agoIANAL, but I thought enforcing a bet is what gets you into trouble. While we're throwing out our Hyperloop hypotheses, I posted this a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4806458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4806458
- X4 13y agoI think I know what it could be, comments? An electric hovercraft design without tires and without a fan, but driven by one large/many small linear or stepper motors that build-up and fire Electromagnetic pulses or compressed Air to build thrust. When he said hyperloop I pictured a normal road with large Metal loops (induction) every mile with smart-meters tracking how much energy you consumed and charging your bank for that amount. Do you remember the games where you have to drive over the yellow arrows to speed up? The same principle. ..still inefficient, even though it's pretty creative and more efficient than all current implementation of car and infrastructure design. before you ask, yes I know a much more efficient way, but it's useless to explain here, because nobody will listen anyway.
- swalsh 13y agoI love that you just made up all the details to his idea, and then discredited it... and then said you know a better way, but assumed no one would listen.
- dasloop 13y agoBeing cynical: promoting a futuristic tech to block the development of the proposed high speed rail.
- jlgreco 13y agoThere are certainly less round-about ways of doing that than getting HN excited by dropping vague hints about a future project every few months.
- hankcharles 13y agomore than likely a big part of his motivation, but considering how bad an investment the current plan is, it is very prudent.
- omni 13y agoIf you have any evidence that Elon Musk of all people is deserving of such cynicism, I genuinely would like to see it.
- dasloop 13y agoI was cynical in a general way. A no sense without any evidence. Apologies for that.
- drgath 13y agoConsidering most voters (57%) disapprove of the high-speed rail project, it sounds like he'd be doing Californians a favor. http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/transportation-nation/2013/mar/28/poll-fewer-than-half-of-californians-support-high-speed-rail/ http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/transportation-nation/2013/mar/28/...
- schiffern 13y agoThe idea for the Hyperloop grew out of the terrible (slowest and most expensive per mile) CA HSR, so yeah.
- ianstallings 13y agoMusk is the modern day inventor/businessman of old. This project has to be the most impactful thing on my life he has proposed and I welcome it with open arms. Paypal was smart, Tesla is cool, Space X is plain bad a^^, but this could change everything. Coast to coast in hours, half hour from NY to DC. And it could make it much cheaper than air travel due to less energy usage overall.
- wellboy 13y agoI like the way you censored a^^ with a happy face. I will use that from now on :)
- swalsh 13y agoThings like this are what happen when you get someone who knows how to make things happen, but also has the intelligence training and experience of a senior engineer.
- netcan 13y agoWhen I read PG's essay earlier today, I thought of hyperloop when I read this footnote: "There may even be an inverse correlation between launch magnitude and success. The only launches I remember are famous flops like the Segway and Google Wave. Wave is a particularly alarming example, because I think it was actually a great idea that was killed partly by its overdone launch." I can actually recall the launch of some things that succeeded (ipad & iphone, for example). Still, this reminds me in some way of Wave. When wave was launching there was a lot of hyperbolic explanations by people who didn't seem to understand what they were describing. realtime collaboration-communication hybrid that's really more of a cloud based protocol than a app. The app itself is just a proof of concept People either didn't get it or made unlikely assumptions about what it was. Something about all this excitement pre-reveal feels wrong to me. Especially since this sounds like such a big, long term project.
- abstractbill 13y agoThough I think pg's advice is exactly right for things that don't need to be started with a big bang, I don't think it applies universally. I can't imagine, for example, the Apollo Program being successful without rallying a huge number of people behind the idea beforehand.
- Dylan16807 13y agoI have not seen a single mention of hyperloop outside a couple articles on HN. Are you sure there's a lot of hype? Where is it?
- tocomment 13y agoIs anyone still thinking it might be a launch loop?
- schiffern 13y agoI'm in, given that it's the only way to beat the insane right-of-way costs for a transport system in California with a ~20 km turning radius.
- Turing_Machine 13y agoI don't know about California in specific, but in the United States as a whole there is plenty of existing and unused/lightly used railroad right of way. Cut a deal with the railroads (most of whom are very, very hungry for cash/investment) and you've got transcontinental capability without needing any eminent domain proceedings or similar obstacles.
- schiffern 13y agoThe problem is that many railroad right-of-ways just aren't straight enough. The plains states will be fine, but the high-density areas are a pain.
- InclinedPlane 13y agoA launch loop doesn't make sense, it's too risky (from a business sense) for this sort of project and too expensive too. Also, the obvious use of a launch loop is for launch, of course. Why serve a market where prices are cents per kilogram when you can serve a market where prices are hundreds of dollars per kilo? And with less capital investment too.
- tocomment 13y agoTrue, but maybe he needs a smaller scale, proof of principle launch loop before building a larger, faster? one for actual launching.
- hnhater 13y agoIt'll work like the water system... efficiency from using gigantic pumps, safety from having so much distributed force that a problem in any point can't bleed off enough power to endanger the system. It'll be a closed loop where the pumps take air from holes in the top of one end and push it through holes in the bottom of the other end. The holes will be spaced so that the upward-pushing force decreases over the loop as the upward-pulling force increases. This creates a slow acceleration at the beginning of the loop and a slow deceleration at the end of the loop. Some mechanical system will move cars from the end of the loop to the beginning (since there is no air force there). The speed at any given point is determined by how many of the up/down holes are behind/before the car, so speed in the center is incredibly fast. The idea is pretty simple, it's just a matter of getting enough funding for the execution since the entire system must be constructed before any returns. Patents are a non-issue since you need government involvement to do it (even Musk isn't going to get a $6 billion loan on an unproved idea with unknown liability, need to get land rights, etc).
- zefhous 13y agoHere's a description of the closest guess Elon has seen so far. https://twitter.com/John_Gardi/status/356798172842049536 https://twitter.com/John_Gardi/status/356798172842049536
- otibom 13y agoIf you really want a fast transport system you need not only speed, but low latency. If you need to queue for 15 minutes while you wait for other people to get in, then it's gonna feel like boarding a plane : time wasted. What's really needed here is parallel loading of passengers into individual pods. But then you need a tube switch and multiple tubes and doors and throughways.
- michaelbuckbee 13y agoTo save someone else digging through 4 layers of Twitter/Twitpic attribution and "full size" buttons: http://twitpic.com/cw4pqb/full http://twitpic.com/cw4pqb/full
- fakename 13y agoof course it's in comic sans
- PavlovsCat 13y agoThat looks like a more elaborate version of something I thought of as a kid, which was basically a vacuum tube going all around the world (one big torus if you will) with carts on super conductive magnets. I was thinking mainly of connecting Tokyo and New York and some place or other in Europe. Cart drives into the station, station gets sealed off and air pumped into it, then passengers leave and board, the doors get closed and the station sealed, then the thing speeds off at a gazillion miles per hour. Yay! Of course you'd have to start braking long before arrival, but the idea wasn't really about saving time (I could not possibly have anticipated how pampered and stupid grown ups are), it was mostly about saving energy, the idea of near zero friction just fascinated me. Though I was never sure if cooling the magnets and keeping the vacuum up wouldn't be more expensive than the energy saved. But all that aside: bleh to passengers, think freight! If it's too complicated for people, because they won't use it if it takes as long as taking a plane... even though being a passenger on just one airplane ride is like riding a fat car for a whole year (give or take, it's nuts either way)... then automate it and use it for cargo. Especially since in that case and for a lot of products the vacuum wouldn't matter, the cargo could just ride in open carts and get picked up by robotic arms. Heck, you might even just throw it on while it's moving, and even use hooks to get cargo off without stopping the cart at all. This might seem too tricky... until you realize what marvels are going on in a bog standard HD these days, right? (though I remember a similar invention for passenger buses from MAD Magazine: something about spring-loaded seats haha)