28 ms·

Buying the new MacBook Air

325 points by virtualpants 13y ago

mrbuttons454 13y ago
They were probably out of the $1749 model.
- tuananh 13y ago
  so I thought!
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
aalbertson 13y ago
While he is right that you may not ever need the CPU resources, the RAM I would argue is necessary (plus it's only $100 and will overall make a HUGE difference). Ram is one of those things you can almost never get enough of. I am a heavy chrome user (and general system user), and I cringe anytime it's less than 8GB because it requires much more tab management for me. Which may be better for me to do, but I keep a large amount of misc work in various chrome windows and tabs, and closing it isn't necessary for me. Along with that, I'm often running a bunch of other apps. CPU is never usually a problem, but RAM definitely is. That being said, you're probably fine with the base model, but I certainly would at least max the ram. :)
- hashtree 13y ago
  Also, it isn't upgradable after the fact in the MBAs.
- kbar13 13y ago
  especially with OSX, where ram is guzzled like no other.
  - voltagex_ 13y ago
    You sure it's not just the caching tricking you? It's been a long time since I used a Mac but I'd be surprised if it didn't cache as much as possible. Unused RAM is wasted RAM.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - rangibaby 13y ago
      Lion (fixed in 10.8 AFAIK) has a bad habit of preferring to page to the disk instead of freeing up RAM that is being used for caching. I was able to remedy this by using the terminal command "purge" occasionally, and also disabling the dynamic pager[1] [1]http://workstuff.tumblr.com/post/20464780085/something-is-deeply-broken-in-os-x-memory-management http://workstuff.tumblr.com/post/20464780085/something-is-de...
      - ghshephard 13y ago
        Lion was absolutely broken in terms of memory management from 10.7.0 through at least 10.7.3sh. (Beach Balls during pageouts, constant memory pressure, weird page-out while using Safari + Aperture - really made me miss 10.6.8) Things got much better in 10.7.4, and 10.7.5 has been so reliable and well balanced that I'm afraid to ever leave it.
      - lysium 13y ago
        That paging drives me nuts, but nobody seemed to have the same issue. Thanks for posting the helping pointer! (I'm afraid of disabling the dynamic pager, though, as I hit max physical RAM rather often.)
- jmuguy 13y ago
  Yeah there really isn't a reason to not get more RAM in a PC. Everything else is debatable. The CPU in particular the guy was right on. I'd say the SSD is a wash.
  - Domenic_S 13y ago
    You mean getting an ssd generally is a wash? Because SSDs are crazy good. I just had one installed on my work MBP (2012) and the performance is astounding.
    - anonymoushn 13y ago
      The only option for the MBA is between different sizes of SSDs.
      - egypturnash 13y ago
        The only PRE-BUILT option. If you're willing to wait for a built-to-order, you can bump the processor, memory, and storage. I'm typing this on a brand new 13" with twice the default RAM and SSD; I didn't feel most of what I do is CPU-bound enough to bump that as well.
    - dekz 13y ago
      It's more of a 'wash' because you can do it after the purchase. Processor and RAM upgrades can't be done.
    - jmuguy 13y ago
      Oh no definitely not, I mean the bigger SSD. You could probably get away with 256 if you didn't want to pay more. But yeah SSD over spinning disk - no contest.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- PanMan 13y ago
  I was quite disappointed to see that after the latest upgrade the air still doesn't support more then 8 gb. If I buy a machine for the next few years, I want more ram than the current 2008 MacBook Pro I have...
throwaway10001 13y ago
A very helpful Apple salesperson helped me save $750 Not really "save", he just gave you less options and the cost $750 less.
kostyk 13y ago
if his supervisor finds out, he is fired.
- madeofpalk 13y ago
  You obviously don't understand how Apple Stores work. He will actually probably retell this story (or a similar one where he convinced someone) later on and be applauded by his supervisors and peers. Apple is in the business of making people happy because, ultimately, happy people will eventually spend more money.
  - hobs 13y ago
    Its more that happy people talk. But we are both right.
smaili 13y ago
He asked what applications I use most and I replied, "Vim, Panic, Terminal, and Git" in which he replied, "I'm sorry, what?"
- samstave 13y ago
  Sorry, tried to look it up but too many false positives; What is Panic?
  - smaili 13y ago
    Really? But they have the most obvious url: http://panic.com/ http://panic.com/ :P
    - teh_klev 13y ago
      Yikes....mystery meat buttons.
      - robflynn 13y ago
        Fair enough, though, at least they have tooltips and are screen reader accessible. (I work in accessibility and a lot of things make me cry. :( )
    - interpol_p 13y ago
      Yes but that's a company, not a single application. I thought the original commenter might be referring to an obscure command-line tool called 'panic' or something.
    - samstave 13y ago
      Yeah - But you said you were asked what apps... then said Panic -- I saw that co - but thought, "this isn't an app, so Ill go ask for clarification"
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- 13y ago
duaneb 13y ago
> Apple recognizes what few other retailers do: customer satisfaction starts even before a product is purchased, and it is customer satisfaction that makes companies great. I'm not sure you can really claim that from the actions of a single employee, which even in Apple's ideal world don't mirror their parent company's ideals.
- nsp 13y ago
  I worked in Apple Retail through April of last year, and this was the specific policy advocated during training, with the argument that goodwill from being down sold outweighed the incremental profit. The canonical example was MacBook Pro -> air after getting into the customers needs, but extended to air -> ipad if the person had truly limited needs. I honestly expected this to be basically a charade dropped during training, but throughout my time there, all of the interaction with managers revolved around the feedback score given by customers and no attention was paid at all to $/hour in sales.* *somewhat frustratingly for me, since I sold a lot of computers and received no benefits for it.
  - duaneb 13y ago
    This is still anecdotal, and that's still a retail store. Attitudes are very different there than in the board room.
    - interpol_p 13y ago
      As you say, it's anecdotal. But my wife's supervisor (an older lady) recently went to an Apple Store to purchase a Macbook. She came away with an iPad, extremely happy with the result and spending much less than she anticipated. Unlike her previous Windows laptop, she actually uses the iPad. It makes financial sense to downgrade customers if you suspect they will use the product more / it suits their lifestyle better / makes them happy. This keeps them in the ecosystem and keeps them coming back.
      - duaneb 13y ago
        My point being, they could easily make customers much happier for little effort. Say, by helping people root their own iPhones if they want to void warranty. But of course it's not in their business interest to do so. Customer satisfaction may be at Apple's core, but producing the products that would make their customers the happiest is not.
sinak 13y ago
Apple seem to have completely stopped carrying anything but the base models of the Macbook Air 11" and 13" in their stores, which may at least partially explain his pushing you to downgrade your choice. Use the "check availability" sidebar link here to see what I mean: http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD712LL/A http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD712LL/A? I remember picking up my fully-loaded 13" from the store a couple of generations ago, so this is likely a new decision (or temporary while they figure out supply and demand). I strongly recommend the 8GB RAM upgrade, RAM gets eaten up really easily and is definitely worth the extra $100. Ideally, he would have told you that the extra RAM might be useful, and also let you know that any upgrades would require delivery to the store or to you directly.
- batiudrami 13y ago
  When I worked in telco, if a customer came in knowing what they wanted I would not offer alternatives unless we did not have stock of what they were after. If you do, the moment something goes wrong, the salesperson is immediately the person to blame (in the same way that if you help someone who is computer-illiterate with their PC, everything that goes wrong in the future is because you touched it). Customers will come back, sometimes multiple times a day, to harass you because you 'made them buy this damn phone'. It never happened to me, but I saw it happen to many of my coworkers (especially the few who were happy to talk customers out of an iPhone purchase for an Android one, back in the 2.x days of Android). He may have been trying to be helpful, but like you said, I suspect it was because they didn't have stock and he wanted to make a sale for his KPIs.
- rz2k 13y ago
  Unless it has changed, the really crazy thing is that you can't upgrade the RAM later. (Though, surprisingly, you can upgrade the SSD, even though it comes in an unconventional form factor)
  - mxxx 13y ago
    yeah it's soldered to the board. and i'll guarantee you're gonna regret going for 4gb.
  - 13y ago
snookca 13y ago
When I first bought my 11" Air, I went with the base model, too. Mostly because I was impatient. But 128GB filled up fast, even with a 1TB external drive. Photos on another drive is one thing but if you have a sizeable music or movie collection, putting it on an external drive is a huge hassle. And then you're travelling with the computer and drive. Thankfully, I bought the Air the year where you could still upgrade the drive. I bought a 500GB drive to replace the 128 and have been very happy since.
- rangibaby 13y ago
  I got a 1TB WD passport drive to pair with my 128 MBP after a POS Lacie from a few years ago failed on me and am very happy with it. It's tiny! http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Portable-External-Drive-Storage/dp/B008R7EXD8 http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Portable-External-Drive-Stora...
plonkus 13y ago
He's a great salesman because he sold you what they have available in-store.
malbs 13y ago
My wife went back to school this year, and she needed a laptop, so I got her one for christmas. I went with the base model 11" air because that's what I would have bought if I was getting it for me. She hated it. I couldn't believe it. "The screen is too small", "I can't play warcraft 3 on it" (ok legit gripe, war3 doesn't work, and she still plays that game!) "I don't like the way the track pad works" Admittedly, the track pad default settings leave a little to be desired. I made a few tweaks to her setup, and it worked a lot better. I asked her the other day how she feels about her laptop now, with 6 months use under her belt. She loves it, as I knew she would. Next laptop I buy for myself will be a 11" air. I'm no apple fan boy, but it is the highest quality laptop you can get. But if you've found a better one for the same price, please let me know
- xjtian 13y ago
  MBA's really are the best ultrabooks money can buy right now. I'd say the X1 Carbon from Lenovo comes close, except if you want comparable specs you'll have to shell out a lot more cash, and that's pretty much the same story with all other ultrabooks out there right now - if you want comparable form factor and hardware to the MBA, it's going to cost a lot more.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    If you want a trackpad that doesn't suck balls, don't get the X1 Carbon (well, it does get me using the Touch feature more). Otherwise it is a great laptop. Why is Apple the only company capable of creating a decent touchpad + driver (even under Windows)?
    - joonix 13y ago
      I bought my first Mac today after following MSFT from Windows 3.11 to 7. Laptop died today and after much hurried research, really wanting to avoid having to make the switch right now, I kept finding that almost every PC laptop had quality control issues. You have to look into the user reviews, not editorial reviews. Almost every ultrabook had trackpad complaints, especially the Samsung Series 9, which is a shame, because it's a beautiful machine otherwise. PC manufacturers can't seem to get their act together (or maybe they don't want to bother because no matter what they do Apple will always be considered superior quality by the consumer?) Anyways, I'm happy with the switch so far but I think I'll always feel at "home" with Windows, given that I've been using it every day since I was 8 years old.
larrys 13y ago
Separate issue: You're not always helping people and doing the right thing but telling them to not spend money. [1] Some people derive quite a bit of pleasure from buying "the best". They simply aren't interested in hearing that what they are doing is wrong. Or ways to save money. The key here is: "Instead, this guy asked me why I needed the i7 processor and 512GB SSD. " That's not really his business to stick his nose and interrogate you (like a parent would) to try to prove your thinking wrong (not saying that some people wouldn't like this or be appreciative of course). On the surface seems like a great loyalty builder. But maybe not. Take the lady that wants a fur coat. You're going to tell her she's stupid and should want a good cloth coat? Take a guy that wants a fancy watch or a fancy car. In their mind there is value that extend way beyond the real benefit of the device. A guy wakes up and wants the Porsche Turbo. He doesn't want to hear that at 160k he is wasting his money. Now if he asks your opinion that's another thing of course. There is no question that with some buyers you will gain good will by following the path described in the story. But please don't assume that everyone wants this, appreciates this, or that it is some just so above it all business ethics that everyone should emulate. By the way having an external drive has advantages and disadvantages. (Personally I would never travel with my photo collection but on the other hand having it on a drive means you have to also protect the drive which becomes easier to steal or lose. [1] We don't even know how important the money savings were to the buyer in this case. Perhaps he had millions I would guess that the store salesman had no clue to his financial condition at all when deciding he shouldn't "waste" his money.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  "That's not really his business to stick his nose and interrogate you" You don't think it's a salesperson's job to make sure that the Apple store is selling the right product to the customer? If you read the entire article, it turns out that this user was super happy with the solution that he ended up with, and saved about $750. I'd say the salesperson did a good job.
  - larrys 13y ago
    (Re-read my comment.) The fact that the customer was happy does not confirm it's the best business decision in general which takes many things into account. I also acknowledged that some people would like that this was done. Going a step further (with my same argument) what if the man was visiting the store with his wife and his wife already thought he was spending to much money "on this stuff". Now the salesman sticks in his nose and confirms her thoughts. Think he will be happy then? Would you? Would most guys or flip sexes and example girls?
mitchellh 13y ago
I worked at an Apple store for over a year as a "salesperson" (we called them Mac Specialists at the time). Let me input my two cents: I was trained to do this. From day one of dedicated 8-hour training sessions, we're trained to find customers the right "solution" rather than get the most money. This requires using the APPLE technique (acronym, google it). The second P stands for "Present a solution for the customer to take home today." It was common knowledge at the time (4 years ago) that consumers were brainwashed to thinking faster/more is always better. But when we can save them hundreds of dollars, this isn't the case. There were many many times I talked someone out of a $2,000 MacBook Pro for a $1200 entry-level iMac with double the specs because after probing (the first "P") I learned they didn't need to be mobile. This was really, really common. And note, this isn't about trying to convince people to spend less. Sometimes after probing, we learned they needed _more_. It is about the RIGHT solution. To add to this: specialists don't earn commission. We weren't ranked based on financial sales numbers (there are other metrics, however). There is no incentive for specialists to sell more expensive or less expensive things. It is about the right thing. So, this guy was just doing what he was trained to do. It is Apple store standard.
- larrys 13y ago
  So to be clear about this you're saying that if you walk into an apple store and have already decided to purchase a particular model that Apple says that you should ask the customer why they need that particular model? Or just if they ask you?
  - mitchellh 13y ago
    Yes, you're supposed to try to probe the customer to learn more about their use case. This doesn't need to be rude or abrupt, it can be a casual "So what do you do?" or "Tell me more about what you're going to use this machine for while it is pulled off the shelf for you." If someone is dead set on getting a model, you aren't rude to them. Ever. But you do your best to make them happy.
    - rednukleus 13y ago
wilfra 13y ago
Had a near identical experience today myself actually. I went in prepared to spend up to $3k on a tricked out MBP. Walked out with a bottom tier 13" Air. The rep kindly helped me realize it's a more powerful computer than the 17" MBP I was upgrading from - which did everything I needed it to do just fine (besides not be huge, heavy and need repairs every six months). So far so good. Plenty of horsepower - and being nearly as portable as an ipad more than makes up for the lost screen real estate.
DigitalJack 13y ago
I suspect this is because they just keep the vanilla baseline models in stock at the store. If you wanted to max it out, it would mean mail order. Going into the store and finding out you can't get what you want right there on the spot means you will likely walk out empty handed. If the sales person can convince you that you really want the vanilla model that is actually in the store, that's money.
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  I don't know why this wasn't voted up higher. There's loads of rationalizations we can get in to re: training and satisfied customers and such, but really, he was pushing what was available, because likely that means the store makes more money that day. Their numbers go higher, and everyone is happy right then. Web ordering means the person might not do it when they go home, unless they're convinced to do it in store right there.
  - DannoHung 13y ago
    Meh, I bet they have a process in store where they walk you through customization and the sale gets recorded for the store's figures. There are people who aren't into delayed gratification, but a computer purchase is still serious enough that people will wait a week or two for what they want.
    - corresation 13y ago
      He walked into the store, self-selecting as someone who prioritizes immediacy. Otherwise he would have simply ordered from the website from the comfort of his home, no? And if you went to a store and they then walk you through the website...that would be very offputting to many people -- all of the disadvantages of both mediums. I, too, suspect that the sales rep was simply pushing what was available in stock, and while this is completely typical of all brick-and-mortars, it is by no means selfless or in his interest, and I think it will turn out to be a very expensive decision to go with just 4GB.
      - 13y ago
thufry 13y ago
You might not be better off for buying the lower-spec model. Especially on RAM, which at today's prices doesn't make sense not to max out. You may actually find yourself needing to upgrade your machine sooner than you previously would have (which has non-financial costs in data migration). That said, I think the Apple Store employees know when someone is dead set on exactly what they need (which the OP obviously wasn't). I walked in and stated the exact machine I needed and they said, "just a minute" and got it for me without another word.
mountaineer 13y ago
How are you handling photo backups with the iPhoto library on an external drive? Do you replicate it? I'm always fighting drive space on my iMac due to iPhoto, but with time machine running, I'm hesitant to move it off the main drive.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  This so very much. Remote libraries on iPhoto are so awful it hurts. And every so often it opens into some new library it just made up, I don't notice and load in a load of photos. Several weeks later I realise when the drive fills up. Ditto for iTunes - but iTunes is worse as it shows the thumb nails of the missing content and fools you into transferring files even though they are going local, not remote like they are supposed to. If remote storage with default apps was solved by Apple (or even just made better) I'd be considerably happier with the Air choice.
robbiep 13y ago
I've been downsold on MacBooks as well. I certainly appreciate that they try to get a great idea of what your needs are and match you to that.
drkevorkian 13y ago
As somebody who's really feeling the squeeze now from skimping on RAM / SSD from my MBA purchase in 2011, I'm tempted to say he should have stuck with his first instinct. You can't upgrade the damn thing later, so do it right the first time!
beloch 13y ago
Buying what you need today and no more + Upgrade unfriendly hardware = Faster obsolescence cycle. Apple isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because it will make you buy their products more often. It's a smart way to do business.
- doktrin 13y ago
  Sure, in theory. However the upgrades the OP listed are in fact unnecessary on an MBA (i7 vs. i5, 512 SSD vs. 128 SSD).
  - johnward 13y ago
    not memory though
  - FireBeyond 13y ago
    Er, what? How can you say "more storage is unnecessary" as a blanket statement of fact?
    - doktrin 13y ago
      I wouldn't think of buying a 512 GB SSD for a workstation, let alone a Macbook Air. That's not future proofing, it's a waste of money. It's also not about "storage". It's quite simple to get "storage" with external HDDs, as noted in the OP. What we're talking about here is paying for premium onboard flash storage, which is unnecessary, particularly on an MBA.
      - mturmon 13y ago
        Have to disagree. Different people have different use cases and different budgets. In particular, some people might like the mobility of the MBA, but have a lot of photos, music, or movies they want to take with them (i.e., different use cases). And many people have the means to shell out for large internal storage because they don't want to manage the external drives. Some people like Kias, some like Lexus.
hippich 13y ago
BTW, by "optimizing" laptop to customer needs, they sell machine less future-proof, which will result in sooner upgrade. I always believed that companies make more money on entry-level models than on professional ones. (not just apple)
- yojimbo311 13y ago
  I don't have numbers or sources to back it up, but in my experience at least, people who were satisfied with an entry-level model didn't keep track of newer models and weren't interested in "upgrading" unless the thing was about to die or there were substantial benefits.
vacri 13y ago
I've helped a lot of people buy laptops over the years based on description alone (I eventually wrote a wiki page to help people decide on factors). Mostly it boils down to portability - after I explain what it's like carrying around a 15" item, most (not all) start looking at 13" or smaller. Being guided on screen size is the sole attribute that people mention after the fact (usually 'thank you' or 'I wish I had listened'). The rest is much of a muchness and varies on more detail in the use case. Sometimes a 15" or bigger is warranted, but I've only seen it suitable for the rarely-mobile, not the always-mobile.
Sealy 13y ago
I agree with the comments below. I went into an apple store recently and asked the technician for some advice. He openly admitted when I questioned his sales techniques that they are not paid on commission. He said that he would rather me not buy a product then buy the wrong one.
_pmf_ 13y ago
> Plus, Apple’s scheme makes it so easy to upgrade. I think this statement is some local maximum of the reality distortion field. Being able to only upgrade at the vendor's shop at a premium rate is "easy", yes. But "easy" is certainly not the first term that comes to mind.
jwilliams 13y ago
It's a good story, but in terms of downgrading - I always go with the higher spec. Each $100-200 might give me an extra 3-6 months life, which is usually worth it.
josephjrobison 13y ago
When is the new Macbook Pro coming out? I've been researching everywhere but there's not date for the non-Retina. This is relevant because based on this article, I'd be more apt to buy the Air now. For web development, medium resolution photo manipulation on photoshop, and light video editing, is the Air good enough?
- rdouble 13y ago
  IMO, Retina is mostly useful if your job is creating Retina enabled assets for iOS devices. Personally I would recommend a maxed out air over a MBP. I do iOS development, web development and music production on a 3 year old MBA. That said, I was disappointed there wasn't a retina MBA. It may be worth waiting to see if the fabled MBA-looking MBP comes out at the end of the year.
- davidbanham 13y ago
  I have a fully loaded 2012 Air and happily do all those things on it.
pjmlp 13y ago
> Only $100 for double the RAM, $150 for the faster processor, and if you’re doing that, you might as well max out the SSD as well. With lots of people around the world getting $500 as average salary, I have to laugh with this "only" expression.
lucb1e 13y ago
After reading the first paragraph I thought someone had a nice trick to save what I'd spend on an entire laptop (for $750 I get a new one, although indeed not an Apple one). Then it turns out the trick is just "don't buy more than you need". Go figure.
rrnewton 13y ago
Ugh, having your photos on an external is terribly annoying. And as far as I can tell it does take a supercomputer to run Aperture.
dzhiurgis 13y ago
Can't tell about the SSD, but any Mac with HDD and 4GB of RAM feels like XP box from 2005...
jtDotNet 13y ago
It sounded like OP didn't do his homework. OP should at least read up on what hardware spec. that he will need for the type of work that he'll be doing.
keithpeter 13y ago
"With my photos all on the external drive, I have almost 100GB of free space. " Of course, there is another external drive which is kept syncronised with the laptop and the iPhoto drive using automatic backup software, and then a third, much larger, external drive that is a backup - never deleting anything - rather than a sync. I wonder how many photos the original author takes a month? How long is that 100Gb going to last? Fully agree with the processor/RAM comments!
Void_ 13y ago
You were lucky, most of them are really stupid. I once witnesses a woman deciding between $2,000 and $2,500 machine, and one of the differences was something about graphics. So she asks "is graphics important for Netflix" and the sales guy goes like "oh yeah". But yeah, it's also a problem of American consumers who have so much money they don't know what to do with them. :-/
- genwin 13y ago
  So much borrowed money, that is.
ahassan 13y ago
The salesman isn't smart...OP is just stupid...
racl101 13y ago
I guess you just got less options for less money. Saved, implied you got the works for less the price. But at least the sales person was kind enough to drop some basic computer shopping knowledge on you. Can't believe you were ready to spend that much $$$ on a computer without much research.
kleiba 13y ago
I had a very similar experience back in the 90's when buying a PC in a non-branded store. So let's be careful with extrapolating here.
sodafountan 13y ago
I held a part time job at Staples as a sales associate for the technology section. We were always told to make recommendations to people based on what they need and not what they think they need. Although once you "down sold" them you were told to offer insurance and other extras which is really where Staple's margins are at, so it makes sense. In a way it helps the customer but at the same time it was deceptive because the insurance rarely ever made sense to buy unless you thought you were saving money.
rdl 13y ago
Getting the MBA with only 4GB is a mistake even for web browsing, if you open a lot of tabs.
- megablast 13y ago
  Is this a joke? I have Firefox with loads of tabs, Safari, Photoshop, Xcode, Mail, Playing a movie, BBEdit, and torrent all running at the same time, on my 2011 13-inch i5 with 4gb of ram. When I but the new machine this year, I might not even get the 8gb, it is really no necessary. I only want the new one for the battery.
  - pyvek 13y ago
    No, its not. I have a 13" MBP 2011 and I swapped out the 4GB RAM with 8GB and noticed a huge difference. Earlier it used to beachball all the time but its much better now. Right now, Chrome alone is using 3.5GB+ memory.
    - mgkimsal 13y ago
      Anecdote: I've got a 2011 15" with 256g SSD and 16gigs. I still get beach balls far more than I think I should. They never go away, just get less frequent. :/
      - ValentineC 13y ago
        Have you tried running a hardware test? You shouldn't get beach balls at all while waiting for something. They're not called spinning balls of death for nothing.
        mgkimsal 13y ago
        hardware test at the genius bar is 'fine'.
        rdl 13y ago
Tichy 13y ago
Ugh - I am constantly at the limit of my 256GB SSD and it is very annoying. Unfortunately in the MB Air there is no way to swap the SSD for a bigger one... So I'd go with the 512GB any day. Before the Air, I used to always upgrade HD and memory at least once in my computers before getting a new one. True, the main problem might be photos, and presumably even 512GB would fill up quickly these days. But external HDs just seem like an ugly solution. Also I already have an external HD attached for backups most of the time, which means I should carry two external HDs (one for backups, one for photos - and backup for photos is especially important)? Maybe cloud services are the only solution? Have to look into that 1 TB option on Flickr...
- ValentineC 13y ago
  OWC sells 480GB replacement SSDs. [1] The SSDs in a MacBook Air are user-replaceable [2]; it's the RAM that isn't. [1] http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Air_2012 http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Air_2012 (I'm using MacBook Air 2012 as a reference point, but there are SSDs for the other versions too.) [2] http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Mid+2012+Solid-State+Drive/10961/1 http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Air+13-Inch+M...
  - Tichy 13y ago
    Very cool!
sspiff 13y ago
I had a similar experience in a Sony Center last year. I walked in to buy the most expensive and pimped out Sony Vaio S at the time, and the salesman tried to convince me that I didn't need the higher specs and could be fine with a cheaper, lighter model that was coming out a few weeks later. I bought the higher end machine though. I do use the faster CPU and large memory capacity - shaving 10 minutes of an Android build is worth a little money, and being able to run multiple VMs concurrently is also something I'm willing to pay for. The salesman didn't fully understand why I needed the resources, and insisted on getting a lower end machine.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- lena 13y ago
  I agree that you don't always know when you purchase something what you're going to use it for. I got the 16GB iPad and never ever expected to run out of storage space. I didn't know about all the great games you could play on it, and how that (together with ebooks and other stuff) really adds up. If someone had asked me what I'd use it for back then, I would have answered "web browsing and reading ebooks". That changed in the first couple of months though. In hindsight I really wish I had at least 32GB. A similar thing goes for the laptop/desktop example given above. I recently bought a laptop for my parents and the salesperson tried to talk them out of it as well, because they weren't going to travel with it. I think a laptop (with an external screen if it is used a lot) is so much more useful for most people than a desktop, simply because of it's portability inside their home, even without any travel. Now they can sit next to their partner instead of in the separate computer room upstairs. Or (if there was no computer room upstairs) they can put it in the closet when they're done and don't have a big computer taking up space in the living room all the time. And it's way easier to take it with me on public transport if there's something wrong with it. I really felt that the "are you planning on taking it with you while traveling" is the wrong question when it comes to deciding between desktop and laptop, especially for most people when the extra power that a desktop gives is totally insignificant for word processing and web browsing. A laptop (not a top of the line one) was definitely the best option for my parents, and I'm glad I was there so that the salesperson did not succeed in talking them out of that with the best of intentions.
nicholassmith 13y ago
I bought a base level MBA 13" 2 years ago. 5 weeks before the refresh to Core i series, and I've lived with it since and it's been an interesting experience. At the time it the specs seemed reasonably good, but a 1.86Ghz C2D with 2GB of RAM and 128GB SSD aren't exactly fantastic in modern context. However, I've found I need significantly less resources than I used to think I needed and in general I only bump up against it when I've got multiple XCode windows open, with the iOS Simulator running, with Sublime, Spotify, a fully stocked Chrome and so on. I'm buying a new MBA some point in the next few weeks, and with the exception of the SSD (I don't really need the 500GB option) I'll most likely max everything else. I know I don't need the headroom now but I'm going to spend somewhere in the region of £1.4k on a machine for me now, and then I'll have a new laptop for my girlfriend in 2 years time, and she'll get 2 years use out of it. I don't think 4GB of RAM in 4 years time is going to cut it given that just web browsing alone these days uses so much. The great thing about Apple products is that for the most part, they're very, very hardy machines. I have a MacBook (plain, old boring MacBook) that's nearing it's 7th year in service. With no upgrades. Spending £210 now adds another couple of comfortable years of use, and that's worth it to me.
jester88 13y ago
now when you discover that you need the extra grunt, it's going to cost you a chunk more to upgrade.
sidcool 13y ago
This is impressive, I can't ever imagine a salesperson doing this. Probably that's why Apple reigns.
coderguy123 13y ago
Fantastic customer service experience. Apple,Amex and costco should get together and make it all about customers instead of about shareholders.
jheriko 13y ago
you can of course get away with this an make yourself look 'good' when all of your products are unreasonably priced to start with... you can buy/assemble most of their top-end systems for the cost of the bottom end... and getting equivalents to their bottom ends typically save around 50% :)
yoster 13y ago
A lot of people who will never buy an Apple product just because they are on the flame bandwagon will miss out on this type of experience. There is a reason why Apple beats out all the other companies in customer satisfaction. I use all types of products from Apple to Microsoft as a majority of people do. I can honestly say that Apple has the best customer support I have experienced so far.
marknutter 13y ago
I must say, as an iPhoto user who currently is drowning in a mountain of around 30k photos, this salesperson did you a great disservice by recommending you get a standard platter external HDD instead of opting for the larger built-in SSD (or even a thunderbolt connected external SSD). iPhoto absolutely starts to crawl with enough photos and videos thrown at it, to the point where the speed of an SSD is all but required.
- dekz 13y ago
  What makes it 'start to crawl'? I'm inexperienced in dealing with iPhoto and large datasets. I'd agree more with you if you said the sales person did a disservice by not recommending the RAM upgrade as thats not possible to do after the purchase. The author can still upgrade the SSD from OWC in the future.
  - marknutter 13y ago
    RAM isn't going to help in the case where you have a massive iPhoto library. I'm not exactly sure what causes iPhoto to perform poorly when dealing with massive quantities of photos, but it is nearly unusable on my 3.4 GHz i7 iMac which has 16GB of RAM unless I put the library on an SSD.
    - ValentineC 13y ago
      I use Lightroom instead of iPhoto, but I get the same thing when processing gigabytes of RAW files. Lesson learnt: split my library up (in Lightroom's case, a catalog) to minimise disk IO.
johnward 13y ago
Get the ram though. 4gb might be enough right now, but what about in a couple years, or when you install a memory intensive app. Plus you can't just upgrade later.
tsieling 13y ago
While waiting for Genius appointments and friends to get something done in Apple stores, I've seen salespeople talk customers out of higher priced items more than once. And they do it the right way: asking what you want to do with the computer and then finding the right level of machine for those needs. I suspected that this was part of the training programme, precisely because it creates happier customers with a good story to share.
antirez 13y ago
Maybe, but I'm selling my MBA 11 4GB 128GB SSD just because the disk and memory is not enough for me. I already purchased exactly what the OP was going to purchase...
no-brainer 13y ago
Yeah, I had the same experience, but in my case it was pretty negative actually. My fiancé went to the mac store with me looking to buy a mbp and while i was perusing accessories etc... mostly wandering around the store, she struck up a conversation with a sales guy. The sales guy's read was "this girl needs much less than she thinks" and he proceeded to try to downsell her to an air. Now I'm sure the air works just fine, but in her case, she's a web dev and works with video editing in her spare time. Not absurd to want a mbp. Anyway, the guy just thought GIRL = Macbook Air. No further analysis needed. Only when I showed up and talked to the guy did he back off... We talked about how strange it was that we needed to strong arm a salesman into paying more. Truly hard selling us on less. It was downright offensive for him to read her so poorly on account of her gender and it put us off. Not that it's changed my fan-boi status...
joshdance 13y ago
I was a former Apple specialist back in the day. Our job was to make the customers happy. No one in the Apple store gets commission. We were trained to help the customer find the right solution, not the most expensive one. Of course every interaction will be different since we are dealing with two humans communicating. But in general specialists try to "right sell" instead of up sell.
Splendor 13y ago
The author misses the point that most stores don't stock anything but the base models. A fully-spec'd, brand new product would have to be shipped to the store (or your home).
ericson578 13y ago
Another reason to buy the stock model: My partner needed a new laptop, and I was sick of fixing the PC's he was used to using. His requirement were using MS Office (mostly for word and powerpoint), surfing the internet, and watching videos while traveling. Macbook Air was a perfect solution (even the stock one without upgrades). Besides showing him how to use a mac and the initial setup of buying and installing msoffice, I haven't had to fix his computer in almost a year. If I can get more of my non-tech friends and family to switch, I will, not because I'm a fanboy but to cut back on my free tech support for MS products that I stopped using 10 years ago for all my friends and family :)
DrJid 13y ago
I had a similar experience whereby I basically walked in to buy a screen cleaning solution. Upon checkout, the agent flat out told me "You know, this is really pricey and you could get a cheaper one for more value at the target just off a block from here". I must say, I was quite surprised and thrilled at the same time. Sure, I could get an inexpensive one.. But for that kind of thoughtful service, I actually just felt like buying it! I didn't though, still a college student..

325 points by virtualpants 13y ago

mrbuttons454 13y ago

They were probably out of the $1749 model.

tuananh 13y ago
so I thought!
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

aalbertson 13y ago

While he is right that you may not ever need the CPU resources, the RAM I would argue is necessary (plus it's only $100 and will overall make a HUGE difference). Ram is one of those things you can almost never get enough of. I am a heavy chrome user (and general system user), and I cringe anytime it's less than 8GB because it requires much more tab management for me. Which may be better for me to do, but I keep a large amount of misc work in various chrome windows and tabs, and closing it isn't necessary for me. Along with that, I'm often running a bunch of other apps. CPU is never usually a problem, but RAM definitely is. That being said, you're probably fine with the base model, but I certainly would at least max the ram. :)

hashtree 13y ago
Also, it isn't upgradable after the fact in the MBAs.
kbar13 13y ago
especially with OSX, where ram is guzzled like no other.
- voltagex_ 13y ago
  You sure it's not just the caching tricking you? It's been a long time since I used a Mac but I'd be surprised if it didn't cache as much as possible. Unused RAM is wasted RAM.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - rangibaby 13y ago
    Lion (fixed in 10.8 AFAIK) has a bad habit of preferring to page to the disk instead of freeing up RAM that is being used for caching. I was able to remedy this by using the terminal command "purge" occasionally, and also disabling the dynamic pager[1] [1]http://workstuff.tumblr.com/post/20464780085/something-is-deeply-broken-in-os-x-memory-management http://workstuff.tumblr.com/post/20464780085/something-is-de...
    - ghshephard 13y ago
      Lion was absolutely broken in terms of memory management from 10.7.0 through at least 10.7.3sh. (Beach Balls during pageouts, constant memory pressure, weird page-out while using Safari + Aperture - really made me miss 10.6.8) Things got much better in 10.7.4, and 10.7.5 has been so reliable and well balanced that I'm afraid to ever leave it.
    - lysium 13y ago
      That paging drives me nuts, but nobody seemed to have the same issue. Thanks for posting the helping pointer! (I'm afraid of disabling the dynamic pager, though, as I hit max physical RAM rather often.)
jmuguy 13y ago
Yeah there really isn't a reason to not get more RAM in a PC. Everything else is debatable. The CPU in particular the guy was right on. I'd say the SSD is a wash.
- Domenic_S 13y ago
  You mean getting an ssd generally is a wash? Because SSDs are crazy good. I just had one installed on my work MBP (2012) and the performance is astounding.
  - anonymoushn 13y ago
    The only option for the MBA is between different sizes of SSDs.
    - egypturnash 13y ago
      The only PRE-BUILT option. If you're willing to wait for a built-to-order, you can bump the processor, memory, and storage. I'm typing this on a brand new 13" with twice the default RAM and SSD; I didn't feel most of what I do is CPU-bound enough to bump that as well.
  - dekz 13y ago
    It's more of a 'wash' because you can do it after the purchase. Processor and RAM upgrades can't be done.
  - jmuguy 13y ago
    Oh no definitely not, I mean the bigger SSD. You could probably get away with 256 if you didn't want to pay more. But yeah SSD over spinning disk - no contest.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
PanMan 13y ago
I was quite disappointed to see that after the latest upgrade the air still doesn't support more then 8 gb. If I buy a machine for the next few years, I want more ram than the current 2008 MacBook Pro I have...

throwaway10001 13y ago

A very helpful Apple salesperson helped me save $750 Not really "save", he just gave you less options and the cost $750 less.

kostyk 13y ago

if his supervisor finds out, he is fired.

madeofpalk 13y ago
You obviously don't understand how Apple Stores work. He will actually probably retell this story (or a similar one where he convinced someone) later on and be applauded by his supervisors and peers. Apple is in the business of making people happy because, ultimately, happy people will eventually spend more money.
- hobs 13y ago
  Its more that happy people talk. But we are both right.

smaili 13y ago

He asked what applications I use most and I replied, "Vim, Panic, Terminal, and Git" in which he replied, "I'm sorry, what?"

samstave 13y ago
Sorry, tried to look it up but too many false positives; What is Panic?
- smaili 13y ago
  Really? But they have the most obvious url: http://panic.com/ http://panic.com/ :P
  - teh_klev 13y ago
    Yikes....mystery meat buttons.
    - robflynn 13y ago
      Fair enough, though, at least they have tooltips and are screen reader accessible. (I work in accessibility and a lot of things make me cry. :( )
  - interpol_p 13y ago
    Yes but that's a company, not a single application. I thought the original commenter might be referring to an obscure command-line tool called 'panic' or something.
  - samstave 13y ago
    Yeah - But you said you were asked what apps... then said Panic -- I saw that co - but thought, "this isn't an app, so Ill go ask for clarification"
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
13y ago

duaneb 13y ago

> Apple recognizes what few other retailers do: customer satisfaction starts even before a product is purchased, and it is customer satisfaction that makes companies great. I'm not sure you can really claim that from the actions of a single employee, which even in Apple's ideal world don't mirror their parent company's ideals.

nsp 13y ago
I worked in Apple Retail through April of last year, and this was the specific policy advocated during training, with the argument that goodwill from being down sold outweighed the incremental profit. The canonical example was MacBook Pro -> air after getting into the customers needs, but extended to air -> ipad if the person had truly limited needs. I honestly expected this to be basically a charade dropped during training, but throughout my time there, all of the interaction with managers revolved around the feedback score given by customers and no attention was paid at all to $/hour in sales.* *somewhat frustratingly for me, since I sold a lot of computers and received no benefits for it.
- duaneb 13y ago
  This is still anecdotal, and that's still a retail store. Attitudes are very different there than in the board room.
  - interpol_p 13y ago
    As you say, it's anecdotal. But my wife's supervisor (an older lady) recently went to an Apple Store to purchase a Macbook. She came away with an iPad, extremely happy with the result and spending much less than she anticipated. Unlike her previous Windows laptop, she actually uses the iPad. It makes financial sense to downgrade customers if you suspect they will use the product more / it suits their lifestyle better / makes them happy. This keeps them in the ecosystem and keeps them coming back.
    - duaneb 13y ago
      My point being, they could easily make customers much happier for little effort. Say, by helping people root their own iPhones if they want to void warranty. But of course it's not in their business interest to do so. Customer satisfaction may be at Apple's core, but producing the products that would make their customers the happiest is not.

sinak 13y ago

Apple seem to have completely stopped carrying anything but the base models of the Macbook Air 11" and 13" in their stores, which may at least partially explain his pushing you to downgrade your choice. Use the "check availability" sidebar link here to see what I mean: http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD712LL/A http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD712LL/A? I remember picking up my fully-loaded 13" from the store a couple of generations ago, so this is likely a new decision (or temporary while they figure out supply and demand). I strongly recommend the 8GB RAM upgrade, RAM gets eaten up really easily and is definitely worth the extra $100. Ideally, he would have told you that the extra RAM might be useful, and also let you know that any upgrades would require delivery to the store or to you directly.

batiudrami 13y ago
When I worked in telco, if a customer came in knowing what they wanted I would not offer alternatives unless we did not have stock of what they were after. If you do, the moment something goes wrong, the salesperson is immediately the person to blame (in the same way that if you help someone who is computer-illiterate with their PC, everything that goes wrong in the future is because you touched it). Customers will come back, sometimes multiple times a day, to harass you because you 'made them buy this damn phone'. It never happened to me, but I saw it happen to many of my coworkers (especially the few who were happy to talk customers out of an iPhone purchase for an Android one, back in the 2.x days of Android). He may have been trying to be helpful, but like you said, I suspect it was because they didn't have stock and he wanted to make a sale for his KPIs.
rz2k 13y ago
Unless it has changed, the really crazy thing is that you can't upgrade the RAM later. (Though, surprisingly, you can upgrade the SSD, even though it comes in an unconventional form factor)
- mxxx 13y ago
  yeah it's soldered to the board. and i'll guarantee you're gonna regret going for 4gb.
- 13y ago

snookca 13y ago

When I first bought my 11" Air, I went with the base model, too. Mostly because I was impatient. But 128GB filled up fast, even with a 1TB external drive. Photos on another drive is one thing but if you have a sizeable music or movie collection, putting it on an external drive is a huge hassle. And then you're travelling with the computer and drive. Thankfully, I bought the Air the year where you could still upgrade the drive. I bought a 500GB drive to replace the 128 and have been very happy since.

rangibaby 13y ago
I got a 1TB WD passport drive to pair with my 128 MBP after a POS Lacie from a few years ago failed on me and am very happy with it. It's tiny! http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Portable-External-Drive-Storage/dp/B008R7EXD8 http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Portable-External-Drive-Stora...

plonkus 13y ago

He's a great salesman because he sold you what they have available in-store.

malbs 13y ago

My wife went back to school this year, and she needed a laptop, so I got her one for christmas. I went with the base model 11" air because that's what I would have bought if I was getting it for me. She hated it. I couldn't believe it. "The screen is too small", "I can't play warcraft 3 on it" (ok legit gripe, war3 doesn't work, and she still plays that game!) "I don't like the way the track pad works" Admittedly, the track pad default settings leave a little to be desired. I made a few tweaks to her setup, and it worked a lot better. I asked her the other day how she feels about her laptop now, with 6 months use under her belt. She loves it, as I knew she would. Next laptop I buy for myself will be a 11" air. I'm no apple fan boy, but it is the highest quality laptop you can get. But if you've found a better one for the same price, please let me know

xjtian 13y ago
MBA's really are the best ultrabooks money can buy right now. I'd say the X1 Carbon from Lenovo comes close, except if you want comparable specs you'll have to shell out a lot more cash, and that's pretty much the same story with all other ultrabooks out there right now - if you want comparable form factor and hardware to the MBA, it's going to cost a lot more.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  If you want a trackpad that doesn't suck balls, don't get the X1 Carbon (well, it does get me using the Touch feature more). Otherwise it is a great laptop. Why is Apple the only company capable of creating a decent touchpad + driver (even under Windows)?
  - joonix 13y ago
    I bought my first Mac today after following MSFT from Windows 3.11 to 7. Laptop died today and after much hurried research, really wanting to avoid having to make the switch right now, I kept finding that almost every PC laptop had quality control issues. You have to look into the user reviews, not editorial reviews. Almost every ultrabook had trackpad complaints, especially the Samsung Series 9, which is a shame, because it's a beautiful machine otherwise. PC manufacturers can't seem to get their act together (or maybe they don't want to bother because no matter what they do Apple will always be considered superior quality by the consumer?) Anyways, I'm happy with the switch so far but I think I'll always feel at "home" with Windows, given that I've been using it every day since I was 8 years old.

larrys 13y ago

Separate issue: You're not always helping people and doing the right thing but telling them to not spend money. [1] Some people derive quite a bit of pleasure from buying "the best". They simply aren't interested in hearing that what they are doing is wrong. Or ways to save money. The key here is: "Instead, this guy asked me why I needed the i7 processor and 512GB SSD. " That's not really his business to stick his nose and interrogate you (like a parent would) to try to prove your thinking wrong (not saying that some people wouldn't like this or be appreciative of course). On the surface seems like a great loyalty builder. But maybe not. Take the lady that wants a fur coat. You're going to tell her she's stupid and should want a good cloth coat? Take a guy that wants a fancy watch or a fancy car. In their mind there is value that extend way beyond the real benefit of the device. A guy wakes up and wants the Porsche Turbo. He doesn't want to hear that at 160k he is wasting his money. Now if he asks your opinion that's another thing of course. There is no question that with some buyers you will gain good will by following the path described in the story. But please don't assume that everyone wants this, appreciates this, or that it is some just so above it all business ethics that everyone should emulate. By the way having an external drive has advantages and disadvantages. (Personally I would never travel with my photo collection but on the other hand having it on a drive means you have to also protect the drive which becomes easier to steal or lose. [1] We don't even know how important the money savings were to the buyer in this case. Perhaps he had millions I would guess that the store salesman had no clue to his financial condition at all when deciding he shouldn't "waste" his money.

ghshephard 13y ago
"That's not really his business to stick his nose and interrogate you" You don't think it's a salesperson's job to make sure that the Apple store is selling the right product to the customer? If you read the entire article, it turns out that this user was super happy with the solution that he ended up with, and saved about $750. I'd say the salesperson did a good job.
- larrys 13y ago
  (Re-read my comment.) The fact that the customer was happy does not confirm it's the best business decision in general which takes many things into account. I also acknowledged that some people would like that this was done. Going a step further (with my same argument) what if the man was visiting the store with his wife and his wife already thought he was spending to much money "on this stuff". Now the salesman sticks in his nose and confirms her thoughts. Think he will be happy then? Would you? Would most guys or flip sexes and example girls?

mitchellh 13y ago

I worked at an Apple store for over a year as a "salesperson" (we called them Mac Specialists at the time). Let me input my two cents: I was trained to do this. From day one of dedicated 8-hour training sessions, we're trained to find customers the right "solution" rather than get the most money. This requires using the APPLE technique (acronym, google it). The second P stands for "Present a solution for the customer to take home today." It was common knowledge at the time (4 years ago) that consumers were brainwashed to thinking faster/more is always better. But when we can save them hundreds of dollars, this isn't the case. There were many many times I talked someone out of a $2,000 MacBook Pro for a $1200 entry-level iMac with double the specs because after probing (the first "P") I learned they didn't need to be mobile. This was really, really common. And note, this isn't about trying to convince people to spend less. Sometimes after probing, we learned they needed _more_. It is about the RIGHT solution. To add to this: specialists don't earn commission. We weren't ranked based on financial sales numbers (there are other metrics, however). There is no incentive for specialists to sell more expensive or less expensive things. It is about the right thing. So, this guy was just doing what he was trained to do. It is Apple store standard.

larrys 13y ago
So to be clear about this you're saying that if you walk into an apple store and have already decided to purchase a particular model that Apple says that you should ask the customer why they need that particular model? Or just if they ask you?
- mitchellh 13y ago
  Yes, you're supposed to try to probe the customer to learn more about their use case. This doesn't need to be rude or abrupt, it can be a casual "So what do you do?" or "Tell me more about what you're going to use this machine for while it is pulled off the shelf for you." If someone is dead set on getting a model, you aren't rude to them. Ever. But you do your best to make them happy.
  - rednukleus 13y ago

wilfra 13y ago

Had a near identical experience today myself actually. I went in prepared to spend up to $3k on a tricked out MBP. Walked out with a bottom tier 13" Air. The rep kindly helped me realize it's a more powerful computer than the 17" MBP I was upgrading from - which did everything I needed it to do just fine (besides not be huge, heavy and need repairs every six months). So far so good. Plenty of horsepower - and being nearly as portable as an ipad more than makes up for the lost screen real estate.

DigitalJack 13y ago

I suspect this is because they just keep the vanilla baseline models in stock at the store. If you wanted to max it out, it would mean mail order. Going into the store and finding out you can't get what you want right there on the spot means you will likely walk out empty handed. If the sales person can convince you that you really want the vanilla model that is actually in the store, that's money.

mgkimsal 13y ago
I don't know why this wasn't voted up higher. There's loads of rationalizations we can get in to re: training and satisfied customers and such, but really, he was pushing what was available, because likely that means the store makes more money that day. Their numbers go higher, and everyone is happy right then. Web ordering means the person might not do it when they go home, unless they're convinced to do it in store right there.
- DannoHung 13y ago
  Meh, I bet they have a process in store where they walk you through customization and the sale gets recorded for the store's figures. There are people who aren't into delayed gratification, but a computer purchase is still serious enough that people will wait a week or two for what they want.
  - corresation 13y ago
    He walked into the store, self-selecting as someone who prioritizes immediacy. Otherwise he would have simply ordered from the website from the comfort of his home, no? And if you went to a store and they then walk you through the website...that would be very offputting to many people -- all of the disadvantages of both mediums. I, too, suspect that the sales rep was simply pushing what was available in stock, and while this is completely typical of all brick-and-mortars, it is by no means selfless or in his interest, and I think it will turn out to be a very expensive decision to go with just 4GB.
    - 13y ago

thufry 13y ago

You might not be better off for buying the lower-spec model. Especially on RAM, which at today's prices doesn't make sense not to max out. You may actually find yourself needing to upgrade your machine sooner than you previously would have (which has non-financial costs in data migration). That said, I think the Apple Store employees know when someone is dead set on exactly what they need (which the OP obviously wasn't). I walked in and stated the exact machine I needed and they said, "just a minute" and got it for me without another word.

mountaineer 13y ago

How are you handling photo backups with the iPhoto library on an external drive? Do you replicate it? I'm always fighting drive space on my iMac due to iPhoto, but with time machine running, I'm hesitant to move it off the main drive.

lostlogin 13y ago
This so very much. Remote libraries on iPhoto are so awful it hurts. And every so often it opens into some new library it just made up, I don't notice and load in a load of photos. Several weeks later I realise when the drive fills up. Ditto for iTunes - but iTunes is worse as it shows the thumb nails of the missing content and fools you into transferring files even though they are going local, not remote like they are supposed to. If remote storage with default apps was solved by Apple (or even just made better) I'd be considerably happier with the Air choice.

robbiep 13y ago

I've been downsold on MacBooks as well. I certainly appreciate that they try to get a great idea of what your needs are and match you to that.

drkevorkian 13y ago

As somebody who's really feeling the squeeze now from skimping on RAM / SSD from my MBA purchase in 2011, I'm tempted to say he should have stuck with his first instinct. You can't upgrade the damn thing later, so do it right the first time!

beloch 13y ago

Buying what you need today and no more + Upgrade unfriendly hardware = Faster obsolescence cycle. Apple isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because it will make you buy their products more often. It's a smart way to do business.

doktrin 13y ago
Sure, in theory. However the upgrades the OP listed are in fact unnecessary on an MBA (i7 vs. i5, 512 SSD vs. 128 SSD).
- johnward 13y ago
  not memory though
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  Er, what? How can you say "more storage is unnecessary" as a blanket statement of fact?
  - doktrin 13y ago
    I wouldn't think of buying a 512 GB SSD for a workstation, let alone a Macbook Air. That's not future proofing, it's a waste of money. It's also not about "storage". It's quite simple to get "storage" with external HDDs, as noted in the OP. What we're talking about here is paying for premium onboard flash storage, which is unnecessary, particularly on an MBA.
    - mturmon 13y ago
      Have to disagree. Different people have different use cases and different budgets. In particular, some people might like the mobility of the MBA, but have a lot of photos, music, or movies they want to take with them (i.e., different use cases). And many people have the means to shell out for large internal storage because they don't want to manage the external drives. Some people like Kias, some like Lexus.

hippich 13y ago

BTW, by "optimizing" laptop to customer needs, they sell machine less future-proof, which will result in sooner upgrade. I always believed that companies make more money on entry-level models than on professional ones. (not just apple)

yojimbo311 13y ago
I don't have numbers or sources to back it up, but in my experience at least, people who were satisfied with an entry-level model didn't keep track of newer models and weren't interested in "upgrading" unless the thing was about to die or there were substantial benefits.

vacri 13y ago

I've helped a lot of people buy laptops over the years based on description alone (I eventually wrote a wiki page to help people decide on factors). Mostly it boils down to portability - after I explain what it's like carrying around a 15" item, most (not all) start looking at 13" or smaller. Being guided on screen size is the sole attribute that people mention after the fact (usually 'thank you' or 'I wish I had listened'). The rest is much of a muchness and varies on more detail in the use case. Sometimes a 15" or bigger is warranted, but I've only seen it suitable for the rarely-mobile, not the always-mobile.

Sealy 13y ago

I agree with the comments below. I went into an apple store recently and asked the technician for some advice. He openly admitted when I questioned his sales techniques that they are not paid on commission. He said that he would rather me not buy a product then buy the wrong one.

_pmf_ 13y ago

> Plus, Apple’s scheme makes it so easy to upgrade. I think this statement is some local maximum of the reality distortion field. Being able to only upgrade at the vendor's shop at a premium rate is "easy", yes. But "easy" is certainly not the first term that comes to mind.

jwilliams 13y ago

It's a good story, but in terms of downgrading - I always go with the higher spec. Each $100-200 might give me an extra 3-6 months life, which is usually worth it.

josephjrobison 13y ago

When is the new Macbook Pro coming out? I've been researching everywhere but there's not date for the non-Retina. This is relevant because based on this article, I'd be more apt to buy the Air now. For web development, medium resolution photo manipulation on photoshop, and light video editing, is the Air good enough?

rdouble 13y ago
IMO, Retina is mostly useful if your job is creating Retina enabled assets for iOS devices. Personally I would recommend a maxed out air over a MBP. I do iOS development, web development and music production on a 3 year old MBA. That said, I was disappointed there wasn't a retina MBA. It may be worth waiting to see if the fabled MBA-looking MBP comes out at the end of the year.
davidbanham 13y ago
I have a fully loaded 2012 Air and happily do all those things on it.

pjmlp 13y ago

> Only $100 for double the RAM, $150 for the faster processor, and if you’re doing that, you might as well max out the SSD as well. With lots of people around the world getting $500 as average salary, I have to laugh with this "only" expression.

lucb1e 13y ago

After reading the first paragraph I thought someone had a nice trick to save what I'd spend on an entire laptop (for $750 I get a new one, although indeed not an Apple one). Then it turns out the trick is just "don't buy more than you need". Go figure.

rrnewton 13y ago

Ugh, having your photos on an external is terribly annoying. And as far as I can tell it does take a supercomputer to run Aperture.

dzhiurgis 13y ago

Can't tell about the SSD, but any Mac with HDD and 4GB of RAM feels like XP box from 2005...

jtDotNet 13y ago

It sounded like OP didn't do his homework. OP should at least read up on what hardware spec. that he will need for the type of work that he'll be doing.

keithpeter 13y ago

"With my photos all on the external drive, I have almost 100GB of free space. " Of course, there is another external drive which is kept syncronised with the laptop and the iPhoto drive using automatic backup software, and then a third, much larger, external drive that is a backup - never deleting anything - rather than a sync. I wonder how many photos the original author takes a month? How long is that 100Gb going to last? Fully agree with the processor/RAM comments!

Void_ 13y ago

You were lucky, most of them are really stupid. I once witnesses a woman deciding between $2,000 and $2,500 machine, and one of the differences was something about graphics. So she asks "is graphics important for Netflix" and the sales guy goes like "oh yeah". But yeah, it's also a problem of American consumers who have so much money they don't know what to do with them. :-/

genwin 13y ago
So much borrowed money, that is.

ahassan 13y ago

The salesman isn't smart...OP is just stupid...

racl101 13y ago

I guess you just got less options for less money. Saved, implied you got the works for less the price. But at least the sales person was kind enough to drop some basic computer shopping knowledge on you. Can't believe you were ready to spend that much $$$ on a computer without much research.

kleiba 13y ago

I had a very similar experience back in the 90's when buying a PC in a non-branded store. So let's be careful with extrapolating here.

sodafountan 13y ago

I held a part time job at Staples as a sales associate for the technology section. We were always told to make recommendations to people based on what they need and not what they think they need. Although once you "down sold" them you were told to offer insurance and other extras which is really where Staple's margins are at, so it makes sense. In a way it helps the customer but at the same time it was deceptive because the insurance rarely ever made sense to buy unless you thought you were saving money.

rdl 13y ago

Getting the MBA with only 4GB is a mistake even for web browsing, if you open a lot of tabs.

megablast 13y ago
Is this a joke? I have Firefox with loads of tabs, Safari, Photoshop, Xcode, Mail, Playing a movie, BBEdit, and torrent all running at the same time, on my 2011 13-inch i5 with 4gb of ram. When I but the new machine this year, I might not even get the 8gb, it is really no necessary. I only want the new one for the battery.
- pyvek 13y ago
  No, its not. I have a 13" MBP 2011 and I swapped out the 4GB RAM with 8GB and noticed a huge difference. Earlier it used to beachball all the time but its much better now. Right now, Chrome alone is using 3.5GB+ memory.
  - mgkimsal 13y ago
    Anecdote: I've got a 2011 15" with 256g SSD and 16gigs. I still get beach balls far more than I think I should. They never go away, just get less frequent. :/
    - ValentineC 13y ago
      Have you tried running a hardware test? You shouldn't get beach balls at all while waiting for something. They're not called spinning balls of death for nothing.
      - mgkimsal 13y ago
        hardware test at the genius bar is 'fine'.
        rdl 13y ago

Tichy 13y ago

Ugh - I am constantly at the limit of my 256GB SSD and it is very annoying. Unfortunately in the MB Air there is no way to swap the SSD for a bigger one... So I'd go with the 512GB any day. Before the Air, I used to always upgrade HD and memory at least once in my computers before getting a new one. True, the main problem might be photos, and presumably even 512GB would fill up quickly these days. But external HDs just seem like an ugly solution. Also I already have an external HD attached for backups most of the time, which means I should carry two external HDs (one for backups, one for photos - and backup for photos is especially important)? Maybe cloud services are the only solution? Have to look into that 1 TB option on Flickr...

ValentineC 13y ago
OWC sells 480GB replacement SSDs. [1] The SSDs in a MacBook Air are user-replaceable [2]; it's the RAM that isn't. [1] http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Air_2012 http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Air_2012 (I'm using MacBook Air 2012 as a reference point, but there are SSDs for the other versions too.) [2] http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Mid+2012+Solid-State+Drive/10961/1 http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Air+13-Inch+M...
- Tichy 13y ago
  Very cool!

sspiff 13y ago

I had a similar experience in a Sony Center last year. I walked in to buy the most expensive and pimped out Sony Vaio S at the time, and the salesman tried to convince me that I didn't need the higher specs and could be fine with a cheaper, lighter model that was coming out a few weeks later. I bought the higher end machine though. I do use the faster CPU and large memory capacity - shaving 10 minutes of an Android build is worth a little money, and being able to run multiple VMs concurrently is also something I'm willing to pay for. The salesman didn't fully understand why I needed the resources, and insisted on getting a lower end machine.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

lena 13y ago
I agree that you don't always know when you purchase something what you're going to use it for. I got the 16GB iPad and never ever expected to run out of storage space. I didn't know about all the great games you could play on it, and how that (together with ebooks and other stuff) really adds up. If someone had asked me what I'd use it for back then, I would have answered "web browsing and reading ebooks". That changed in the first couple of months though. In hindsight I really wish I had at least 32GB. A similar thing goes for the laptop/desktop example given above. I recently bought a laptop for my parents and the salesperson tried to talk them out of it as well, because they weren't going to travel with it. I think a laptop (with an external screen if it is used a lot) is so much more useful for most people than a desktop, simply because of it's portability inside their home, even without any travel. Now they can sit next to their partner instead of in the separate computer room upstairs. Or (if there was no computer room upstairs) they can put it in the closet when they're done and don't have a big computer taking up space in the living room all the time. And it's way easier to take it with me on public transport if there's something wrong with it. I really felt that the "are you planning on taking it with you while traveling" is the wrong question when it comes to deciding between desktop and laptop, especially for most people when the extra power that a desktop gives is totally insignificant for word processing and web browsing. A laptop (not a top of the line one) was definitely the best option for my parents, and I'm glad I was there so that the salesperson did not succeed in talking them out of that with the best of intentions.

nicholassmith 13y ago

I bought a base level MBA 13" 2 years ago. 5 weeks before the refresh to Core i series, and I've lived with it since and it's been an interesting experience. At the time it the specs seemed reasonably good, but a 1.86Ghz C2D with 2GB of RAM and 128GB SSD aren't exactly fantastic in modern context. However, I've found I need significantly less resources than I used to think I needed and in general I only bump up against it when I've got multiple XCode windows open, with the iOS Simulator running, with Sublime, Spotify, a fully stocked Chrome and so on. I'm buying a new MBA some point in the next few weeks, and with the exception of the SSD (I don't really need the 500GB option) I'll most likely max everything else. I know I don't need the headroom now but I'm going to spend somewhere in the region of £1.4k on a machine for me now, and then I'll have a new laptop for my girlfriend in 2 years time, and she'll get 2 years use out of it. I don't think 4GB of RAM in 4 years time is going to cut it given that just web browsing alone these days uses so much. The great thing about Apple products is that for the most part, they're very, very hardy machines. I have a MacBook (plain, old boring MacBook) that's nearing it's 7th year in service. With no upgrades. Spending £210 now adds another couple of comfortable years of use, and that's worth it to me.

jester88 13y ago

now when you discover that you need the extra grunt, it's going to cost you a chunk more to upgrade.

sidcool 13y ago

This is impressive, I can't ever imagine a salesperson doing this. Probably that's why Apple reigns.

coderguy123 13y ago

Fantastic customer service experience. Apple,Amex and costco should get together and make it all about customers instead of about shareholders.

jheriko 13y ago

you can of course get away with this an make yourself look 'good' when all of your products are unreasonably priced to start with... you can buy/assemble most of their top-end systems for the cost of the bottom end... and getting equivalents to their bottom ends typically save around 50% :)

yoster 13y ago

A lot of people who will never buy an Apple product just because they are on the flame bandwagon will miss out on this type of experience. There is a reason why Apple beats out all the other companies in customer satisfaction. I use all types of products from Apple to Microsoft as a majority of people do. I can honestly say that Apple has the best customer support I have experienced so far.

marknutter 13y ago

I must say, as an iPhoto user who currently is drowning in a mountain of around 30k photos, this salesperson did you a great disservice by recommending you get a standard platter external HDD instead of opting for the larger built-in SSD (or even a thunderbolt connected external SSD). iPhoto absolutely starts to crawl with enough photos and videos thrown at it, to the point where the speed of an SSD is all but required.

dekz 13y ago
What makes it 'start to crawl'? I'm inexperienced in dealing with iPhoto and large datasets. I'd agree more with you if you said the sales person did a disservice by not recommending the RAM upgrade as thats not possible to do after the purchase. The author can still upgrade the SSD from OWC in the future.
- marknutter 13y ago
  RAM isn't going to help in the case where you have a massive iPhoto library. I'm not exactly sure what causes iPhoto to perform poorly when dealing with massive quantities of photos, but it is nearly unusable on my 3.4 GHz i7 iMac which has 16GB of RAM unless I put the library on an SSD.
  - ValentineC 13y ago
    I use Lightroom instead of iPhoto, but I get the same thing when processing gigabytes of RAW files. Lesson learnt: split my library up (in Lightroom's case, a catalog) to minimise disk IO.

johnward 13y ago

Get the ram though. 4gb might be enough right now, but what about in a couple years, or when you install a memory intensive app. Plus you can't just upgrade later.

tsieling 13y ago

While waiting for Genius appointments and friends to get something done in Apple stores, I've seen salespeople talk customers out of higher priced items more than once. And they do it the right way: asking what you want to do with the computer and then finding the right level of machine for those needs. I suspected that this was part of the training programme, precisely because it creates happier customers with a good story to share.

antirez 13y ago

Maybe, but I'm selling my MBA 11 4GB 128GB SSD just because the disk and memory is not enough for me. I already purchased exactly what the OP was going to purchase...

no-brainer 13y ago

Yeah, I had the same experience, but in my case it was pretty negative actually. My fiancé went to the mac store with me looking to buy a mbp and while i was perusing accessories etc... mostly wandering around the store, she struck up a conversation with a sales guy. The sales guy's read was "this girl needs much less than she thinks" and he proceeded to try to downsell her to an air. Now I'm sure the air works just fine, but in her case, she's a web dev and works with video editing in her spare time. Not absurd to want a mbp. Anyway, the guy just thought GIRL = Macbook Air. No further analysis needed. Only when I showed up and talked to the guy did he back off... We talked about how strange it was that we needed to strong arm a salesman into paying more. Truly hard selling us on less. It was downright offensive for him to read her so poorly on account of her gender and it put us off. Not that it's changed my fan-boi status...

joshdance 13y ago

I was a former Apple specialist back in the day. Our job was to make the customers happy. No one in the Apple store gets commission. We were trained to help the customer find the right solution, not the most expensive one. Of course every interaction will be different since we are dealing with two humans communicating. But in general specialists try to "right sell" instead of up sell.

Splendor 13y ago

The author misses the point that most stores don't stock anything but the base models. A fully-spec'd, brand new product would have to be shipped to the store (or your home).

ericson578 13y ago

Another reason to buy the stock model: My partner needed a new laptop, and I was sick of fixing the PC's he was used to using. His requirement were using MS Office (mostly for word and powerpoint), surfing the internet, and watching videos while traveling. Macbook Air was a perfect solution (even the stock one without upgrades). Besides showing him how to use a mac and the initial setup of buying and installing msoffice, I haven't had to fix his computer in almost a year. If I can get more of my non-tech friends and family to switch, I will, not because I'm a fanboy but to cut back on my free tech support for MS products that I stopped using 10 years ago for all my friends and family :)

DrJid 13y ago

I had a similar experience whereby I basically walked in to buy a screen cleaning solution. Upon checkout, the agent flat out told me "You know, this is really pricey and you could get a cheaper one for more value at the target just off a block from here". I must say, I was quite surprised and thrilled at the same time. Sure, I could get an inexpensive one.. But for that kind of thoughtful service, I actually just felt like buying it! I didn't though, still a college student..