9 ms·
"Once he reached the conclusion that the NSA's surveillance net would soon be irrevocable, he said it was just a matter of time before he chose to act. "What th
by spodek 13y ago
"Once he reached the conclusion that the NSA's surveillance net would soon be irrevocable, he said it was just a matter of time before he chose to act. "What they're doing" poses "an existential threat to democracy", he said."
Thoughtful people brave enough to blow whistles seem to be the greatest check on what looks like a secret, unaccountable, illegal centralization of power based on lies from the top of the government on down.
Many powerful people will see him otherwise. I shudder to think of what will become of him, though I'm sure we'll see it played out in headlines.
Whistle-blowers are not our only defense, however, as we all have power too, for example contributing to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF):
"His allegiance to internet freedom is reflected in the stickers on his laptop: "I support Online Rights: Electronic Frontier Foundation," reads one. Another hails the online organisation offering anonymity, the Tor Project."
My personal favorite is the Freedombox project: https://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/learn https://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/learn
EFF: https://www.eff.org https://www.eff.org
(By the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information.)
EDIT: Followed up by posting the above on my blog -- http://joshuaspodek.com http://joshuaspodek.com -- based on comments below.
- gasull 13y ago"I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information." I've thought the same thing many times. I think there is really no choice since I don't want to live under a dictatorship, and if I don't voice my opinion I keep thinking about it. So it's better to voice what you think, then go back to work. I feel like at least I'm doing my part.
- rhizome 13y agoFoucault described one of the purposes of the Panopticon is to internalize the state's power to discipline and punish the individual. Evidence of this is seen in a restraint of expression due to its possible repercussions.
- MarciaPetros 13y agoThe psychological terror of the Panopticon cannot be overemphasized. The Panopticon is more real now than it ever has been. Watch as former radicals instantly self-censor with these new NSA revelations.
- mindcrime 13y agoBy the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information. I don't know about you, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. As far as I'm concerned, Edward Snowden is an American hero and deserves a medal and a ticker-tape parade before he deserves to spend the rest of his life on the run, and possibly ultimately in a jail cell, or having his life taken prematurely by US operatives. I think he did the right thing though, by going public. Presumably he knew the odds that "they" would track him down anyway, and by going public he has a chance to leverage popular public sentiment as a shield of sorts. As he says, it's a tactic to keep them from "going dirty". He might still wind up in jail, but there's a better chance now that they'll have to deal with him through ordinary judicial means, and (hopefully) no torture, or secret imprisonment at Guantanamo or whatever. Hopefully Iceland (or maybe Ecuador!) will grant him political asylum and give him a shot at a semi-normal life, albeit far from his original home. Postscript: To any NSA / CIA / FBI / etc. spooks who are reading this - blow me.
- Spearchucker 13y agoAs far as I'm concerned, Edward Snowden is an American hero... He's a hero. Putting the word American in there is very, well, American. The NSA has done a lot worse by foreigners than Americans.
- adventured 13y agoI think it's clear he meant that he is a hero to/for Americans, without anything further being implied in the positive or negative. There's absolutely nothing unique about inserting the nationality of a hero that relates to Americans. I see it done regularly by citizens of other countries. In my observation, national pride is nearly universal.
- paganel 13y agoI'm not American but I was clapping and cheering him loudly by the end of the interview. He is a hero for me.
- AJ007 13y agoSupport is not a one way street. There were a lot of Americans who thought Martin Luther King Jr posed a serious threat to the US. In that case, the status quo today can be a bigger problem for you tomorrow.
- jamesaguilar 13y agoI think it's almost certain the guy will have some problems not long in the future. One question that comes to mind is how a supposed intelligence organization allowed someone who subscribes to EFF thinking even come to know about this surveillance. Shouldn't the NSA be doing some kind of screening to make sure the people they hire don't have ideals diametrically opposed to their practices?
- EthanHeilman 13y agoTry hiring 10,000 good CNE people with support of the EFF as a red flag. Who works in this field and doesn't support the EFF?
- tome 13y agoIt's weird. On the one hand he makes them sound all-knowing. On the other hand they sound completely incompetent.
- rhizome 13y agoHe makes the point that a chief purpose is, to repurpose a previously-ridiculous term, "backtracing." They are all-having, but that says nothing about what they currently know, which, as the existence of surveillance practices in recent history shows, didn't help with respect to e.g. the Boston Marathon bombers.
- dnautics 13y agothese are not mutually incompatible. Ever heard of idiot savants (I understand this is historically a derogatory term for autistic people).
- MarciaPetros 13y agoThis is the nature of all corporate endeavour. The corporate style of organization is very good at certain things and very bad at others. It can't be compared to a human being. It's a different animal.
- laumars 13y agoI'm fairly sure they will now be screening for that in the future.
- Create 13y agoWhenever Amira Hass tries to explain her vocation as a journalist, she recalls a seminal moment in her mother's life. Hannah Hass was being marched from a cattle train to the concentration camp of Bergen-Belsen on a summer's day in 1944. "She and the other women had been 10 days in the train from Yugoslavia. They were sick and some were dying. Then my mother saw these German women looking at the prisoners, just looking. This image became very formative in my upbringing, this despicable 'looking from the side'. It's as if I was there and saw it myself." Amira Hass stares at you through wire-framed glasses as she speaks, anxious to make sure you have understood the importance of the Jewish Holocaust in her life.
- cema 13y agoAmira Hass? Where is she referred to, in the article or comments?
- dylangs1030 13y agoEven the smallest men can cast great shadows. The last paragraph of your comment expresses a fear that is rational, but one that we need to abandon as a community. If we are afraid to even post support for a controversial cause on the internet, then we are already lost. We do not all need to be whistleblowers. We can champion liberty and freedom of privacy in our own ways. The first step is being brave enough to stand up for what is right, no matter who we are, no matter how apparently small our sphere of influence is. The government should be at the mercy of the vox populi, not vice versa. It is our duty - our inalienable right - to support and rally for those who care more about the triumph of democracy and liberty than their own safety.
- swombat 13y agoThe last paragraph of your comment expresses a fear that is rational, but one that we need to abandon as a community. If we are afraid to even post support for a controversial cause on the internet, then we are already lost. My father (who grew up in Communist Romania) has been warning me about all the stuff I post online for over a decade now... and the reason I keep doing it is precisely that.
- einhverfr 13y agoMy Chinese-Indonesian wife says the same thing. There is a point where loyalty to one's country however and to the ideals we share must trump the risk of action by one's government.
- smoyer 13y agoI'm willing to state my support for him too - in fact, I view him as a hero. I'm just a boring guy surfing the Internet. I'm more concerned with the overall erosion of our privacy than this specific incident. I'm certainly not a terrorist or even an anarchist, but my own government is slowly turning my sentiment against the country in which I was born and raised.
- riggins 13y agoBy the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information this is exactly what's so scary. people have to think about posting on Hacker News.
- rooshdi 13y agoWe all have to die someday. Might as well die for something.
- ctvo 13y agoThis gentleman is willing to risk his life to comment on HN! Very brave, our very own Snowden.
- wavefunction 13y agoWe all do what we can. I for example would never qualify for a position like the one Snowden found himself in because of my big mouth. But I can talk to my friends and family, to strangers on sites like this. We can see the solidarity forming right here. We can organize. That is why the internet is the greatest opportunity to free ourselves finally from oppression, and also an opportunity if we let them for authoritarians to clamp down on us if we ignore them. Some people are born fearful and they cower their whole lives. Others of these fearful seek to control, by any means necessary. It is up to those of us that can stand up, even in small ways, and provide an example to all. So yeah, it's just some internet posts right now. But it's also much more than that in the aggregate.
- einhverfr 13y agoI know you have been ridiculed for saying this by someone who was fortunately downvoted, but I want to point out that even saying the words in a post may have an impact. In context, who knows who it will inspire?
- dnautics 13y ago
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago>I'm seriously concerned about the consequences... Well, at the very least, don't bother sending your CV to Booz Allen Hamilton, Palantir, etc. Also, fuck these assholes. Seriously, is there anything worse than this?
- spydum 13y agoHow else to change a companies ethics and culture if not from the inside?
- jlgreco 13y agoMaybe those prosecutors should have just sent their resumes to Enron instead, and all pacifists should join the military.
- deadairspace 13y agoYou're assuming that it's possible.
- MarciaPetros 13y agoReally? They pay you to make money. Trying to change them just gets you bad performance reviews. Eventually fired or sidelined as a poor team player who doesn't understand the business. I've never heard anything more naive than trying to change a corporation as a new hire, as a small cog in a giant machine.
- 1morepassword 13y agoYes. Violating peoples privacy for greed and profit alone. But that would exclude a lot more companies, many of which employ a lot of regular HN-users. Anything can be rationalized for a paycheck. And although I've managed to steer clear so far, I'm not claiming to be any better.
- forgottenpaswrd 13y ago"By the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information." Welcome to the land of the freedom in witch people is afraid of speaking their mind!
- doktrin 13y ago> By the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. It's telling, and terrifying, that this is a rational and common concern. Put plainly, it means we fear for the dissolution of our free society (yes, I believe we still live in one).
- rhizome 13y agoThoughtful people brave enough to blow whistles seem to be the greatest check on what looks like a secret, unaccountable, illegal centralization of power based on lies from the top of the government on down. Especially so when you see the oversight committee receive a bald-faced lie, where the leader of the Intelligence agencies lies to the American people by extension, since this is the only public oversight these programs receive. http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/06/10/james-clapper-hails-separation-of-powers-while-excusing-lie-as-too-cute-by-half/ http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/06/10/james-clapper-hails-sep...
- nicolly 13y agoHere we are: http://edward-snowden-45th-president-of-the-united-states.com/ http://edward-snowden-45th-president-of-the-united-states.co...