22 ms·

Florida Teen Charged With Felony After Science Experiment Goes Bad

345 points by comex 14y ago

ars 14y ago
For some reason I just don't believe the article as written. I suspect she took the chemicals without any permission, and the "experiment" was more in line with "oooo, chemicals, lets mix them together randomly".
- spamizbad 14y ago
  If the part about the good grades and perfect record are true: Why would a student in good standing do something like that maliciously? It doesn't fit the "profile" of a good student.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    Fireworks are simultaneously "malicious" and "awe-inspiring". Similarly, drano bombs are "dangerous" and "exciting".
- vineel 14y ago
  Even if that's all she did, it doesn't warrant an expulsion or a felony charge.
  - ars 14y ago
    If that's the case then I agree - but since I don't trust the article, I have no way of knowing what really happened.
    - raimondious 14y ago
      I agree that the article seems biased; however, it's hard to think of an alternative situation that should lead to a felony charge.
- guiambros 14y ago
  I believe it was more like "wanna see something cool? I'll make this cap fly to the roof". Like Menthos + Coke on steroids. Seems the "science experiment" part was just a cheap excuse, to try to get a free pass. Ironically, it may have made it worse for her.. I did similar things as a kid, just not in school. Bad judgement, but expelled from school and facing trial is just ridiculous. If my kids were in that school, I'd seriously consider moving.
steve19 14y ago
There must be more to this than what Maimi New Times is reporting. When I was in school half the kids in science class were constantly scheming on how to get their hands on chemicals to mix them, heat them and generally be irresponsible. Edit: I suspect she stole the chemicals and/or this was a repeat offense.
- rpedroso 14y ago
  It's probably worth noting, as someone who lives in Miami, that the New Times is considered closer to a tabloid than a reputable journal. I can't speak for this particular article, but I would not be surprised if there were editorializing substantially.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    It's an alt-weekly. Not really tabloid, but definitely covers local issues that the mainstream papers wouldn't.
- joenathan 14y ago
  >Edit: I suspect she stole the chemicals and/or this was a repeat offense. There are no grounds to suspect such, the article says "Kiera Wilmot got good grades and had a perfect behavior record.". It's more reasonable to assume that this reaction is a result of the increased fear that recent bombings and school shootings have brought about.
  - olefoo 14y ago
    My immediate reaction to seeing the multiple occurrences of "She must have done something to deserve it." in this thread was "Because, Racism!". But on second thought, it's probably just the reflexive servility of the average american. The "authorities" charged her with something, so they must be right. Bah, I mean, what's one more black girl driven to a life of marginalization and petty crime because she was too inquisitive; after all. She wasn't the first, she won't be the last; the system is supposed to divert people like her into career paths appropriate to her social status; in this case, curiosity about vinegar and baking soda means that meth cook is her only viable career choice; because it's not like she could learn enough to be an actual chemist or anything... This country is FCKD, if we are wasting the potential intellectual capacity of our young, like we are here.
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dangrossman 14y ago
Another source: http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/312750/250/Student-accused-of-setting-off-explosion-on-campus http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/312750/250/Stude... According to this report, she brought the bottles of chemicals from home to the school at 7AM (likely before first classes), where she mixed them and caused the explosion. Not quite the same as mixing the wrong vials in chem lab without permission.
- Confusion 14y ago
  It says she brought A bottle and then mixed the ingredients. God knows what actually happened, but the journalist certainly isn't giving an accurate depiction.
- voyou 14y ago
  Yes, if anything the fact that she brought the chemicals from home makes the case even less serious - chemicals brought from home aren't all that likely to be dangerous, whereas chemistry labs can have some unpleasant chemicals in them.
  - Filligree 14y ago
    Do you have bleach in your cupboard? Maybe ammonia? :-) To be fair, most children are told very early never to mix those.
United857 14y ago
So... what were the chemicals involved? Article is very vague. Some stuff is obviously more dangerous than others.
- Luyt 14y ago
  I think putting baking soda and vinegar into a bottle and then closing it. Coke and menthos is also a possibility, but the article speaks about 'household chemicals', not candy and fizzy drink...
  - alan_cx 14y ago
    A sensationalist tabloid in the UK might well call candy ( sweets UK) and fizzy drinks "house hold chemicals" to ramp up the "evil" factor. Frankly I am please to see the word "terror" hasn't been weaved in just yet.
  - deleted 14y ago
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- arethuza 14y ago
  Might be a "drano bomb": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaiCdX1XWc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaiCdX1XWc
Lewton 14y ago
She will be tried as an adult? That's ridiculous, even if she was being intentionally malicious (Which I don't really believe). How do they determine whether to try kids as adults in america?
- EllaMentry 14y ago
  If the statistics are to be believed race and gender and age, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_as_an_adult#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_as_an_adult#Demographics
  - nraynaud 14y ago
    on a totally off-topic note the next paragraph is quite funny: "Advocates for the abolition of juvenile court Critics of the juvenile court argue that the definitions of childhood and adolescence that were used to establish the first juvenile courts in America are no longer equivalent to the definitions of childhood and adolescence today. These critics state that the boundary between juvenile and adult is no longer as clear, as children appear to grow up faster, with more exposure to adult ideas, and as adults more often engage in juvenile behaviors and activities." That's quite a charge against 21yo drinking limit, but I don't imagine the same person using the same arguments in both contexts...
    - adrr 14y ago
      Drinking age, handgun ownership age, age of consent,cigarette smoking age have all moved up to either 18 or 21.
      - __del__ 14y ago
        As has the age for working in the mines.
- cbsmith 14y ago
  Yeah, the question I keep asking myself is, "what possible scenario could _possibly_ be a better case for charging this kid as a child?"
jerrya 14y ago
I read this, and if this story is anywhere near accurate, I can only wonder what the hell is wrong with adults today. What is wrong with administrators, and what is wrong with prosecutors? And where are the lawyers working pro-bono to defend her? And where are the other parents in the school to demand the school do the right thing? I am appalled and saddened by the crap we force today's youths and young adults to put up with. Zero tolerance has to go.
- georgemcbay 14y ago
  "I read this, and if this story is anywhere near accurate, I can only wonder what the hell is wrong with adults today." There are likely a number of factors but the worst seems to be that they are scared to death by the mainstream media on a nearly daily basis. Fear sells. "Could a couple of common household chemicals kill your family slowly and painfully if mixed incorrectly by a high school student? Tune in at 11 to find out."
ck2 14y ago
Expulsion? Seriously? I am grasping at straws here but since it's Florida is it possible she is "the wrong color" ? Would another kid just get a suspension at best? Horrible to be thinking that way. Did she have prior issues? If there were prior issues with warnings/suspensions, yeah I could see expulsion. If first time ever in trouble, there is something else going on here. perfect behavior record seems to suggest no priors. added: apparently this is an institutionalized system she was just shoved into, please read the link in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5636788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5636788
- dangrossman 14y ago
  Zero tolerance rules: most schools have had them for a long time now. Anything that explodes is a weapon, and weapons on school grounds are an automatic expulsion.
  - ck2 14y ago
    So if a kid put a mentos in his soda at lunch, that's an expulsion?
    - dangrossman 14y ago
      Possibly, if any kind of administrator dares call it an explosion. I'm not in favor of zero-tolerance policies either, just acknowledging how common they've become. Packing a metal butter knife in a lunch box can lead to expulsion these days (it's happened several times, and made the news each time).
      - dmxt 14y ago
        Plastic knife also count, my friend got suspensed from school for bringing that.
        pekk 14y ago
        Ouch. Maybe now all our dishes and utensils can be small discs. Made of pleather.
rikacomet 14y ago
Ok, what she did was something stupid, but remember, how many times good scientists have failed like this, this is actually thinking out of the box, no one was in the vicinity, she was clearly not using this to hurt anyone, the intention was clear here, a OUT-OF-BOX experiment, she was sure no one would give her the go, since it might have been as per her judgement, on the line of safety. So what? if it went bad? If it had went good, you all be calling her a genius or something! Expulsion from the school? This is ridiculous! At max suspend her for a week, so she thinks it through, her parents should sue this school, if nothing, for causing a good kid such trauma, a good student gets devastated by a expulsion, cause it sticks, on her hard work. No wonder we asians are talking up the good jobs in America, if this is the policy for such out-of-box thinking. If I had done that, ten people would have asked my well being here in India, and at max, I would have had to pay the cost of destruction, and later, me and my friends would laugh it off, since its pretty badass.. blown up the roof pfft!
- seanp2k2 14y ago
  >"No wonder we asians are talking up the good jobs in America, if this is the policy for such out-of-box thinking." I don't feel that race is relevant here.
  - rikacomet 14y ago
    race is not, but educational background is. India & China are producing more graduates, post graduates, then any other country in the world. This is a known fact.
    - asdashopping 14y ago
      In absolute terms or per capita? They are (by quite a wide margin) the most populous countries in the world.
      - philhippus 14y ago
        Well, India has a millionaire population the same size as the entire United Kingdom. But that still leaves over a billion in poverty.
eridius 14y ago
This seems like a textbook case of why zero-tolerance rules are terrible.
anon1685 14y ago
Even if the girl practiced poor judgement, it's obvious she was not malicious. it's remarkable how the US has become completely intolerant to people making mistakes. So according to the article we have a girl with good grades and behavior doing something stupid which did not cause any damage or hurt anyone. Her punishment for this is expulsion and trial as adult?
- katherineparker 14y ago
  Agree. I guess they (the school) really fear that this could be a repetitive trend and they want to crush it by throwing the expulsion in for her. It is unfortunate because - like you said - she doesn't seem malicious.
tlrobinson 14y ago
For my high school physics group project we built a 20 foot air compressor powered potato cannon. We got a few good shots off across the football field before one of the joints failed spectacularly. Fortunately no one was injured, aside from some temporary hearing loss. I have no idea why they let us do that, and I'm pretty sure we got an A, but this is absurdly on the other end of possible reactions.
venomsnake 14y ago
First rule of organic chemistry - if you mix something organic with enough nitric acid in the presence of enough sulphuric acid to use as a catalyst chances of getting something that can blow up in your hands are high. And it is something not worthy of felony charge. The message that is sent is terrible.
quannabe 14y ago
'Science experiment' my ass. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing--making a 'Works-Bomb'. Don't be naive, did the same thing when I was her age, just not at school.
dredmorbius 14y ago
Several decades ago, in a Galaxy not very far away, a high school student mentioned to his friend that he had an M-80 he'd stashed in his locker for a while, and it was time to do something with it. The firework was lit and tossed into one of the steel barrels used as garbage containers on campus. The two walked down the hall, noted the several seconds of absolute silence which settled over campus following the blast, and walked into the classroom of a teacher they both had, which was generally open during lunch. The teacher looked at both of them, shook his head and said, "Gentlemen..." with a slight smile. One of the students retyped spirit copier forms (this was several decades ago) for a teacher following lunch. The typewriter used sat in the vestibule to the principle's office. He listened that hour while the yard patrol supervisor and secretary discussed "the bomb" which had gone off, as the faint smell of burned garbage wafted through the building. That day's work had more than the usual share of errors. Nothing more ever came of it. My, how the world has changed.
- bobsy 14y ago
  So... a few friends and I were discussing what would happen if we lit the gas tap in the science lab. We were 11-12 and I think I had just seen an episode of Bottom with a lit gas pipe. We were strangely unattended in a science lab that day. I turned on the tap and a friend lit it. Queue a rather cool jet of flame in the middle of the room. Teacher I guess saw the glow coming from the room. Turned it off. Received bollocking like none other and a 2 day suspension to underline the seriousness of this. Notably we were not accused of either arson or trying to blow up the school. Youthful - unacceptable - misadventure. As usual there aren't any facts on what this girl was doing. On the surface though it seems expulsion and criminal action is way over the top.
  - arethuza 14y ago
    I made gun cotton as part of a 6th year Chemistry project (this is Scotland where we had strange exams) - I was making a variety of early plastics and we had a lab and access to the chemicals store with hardly any supervision. When the Head of Chemistry found out he called me an idiot, got me to go to the groundsmans store and get a spade and go and bury the gun cotton somewhere. Then there was the time I wasn't paying attention when I went to get some sulphuric acid from the store and was doing something and wondering "why is this acid viscous and why are things getting so hot?". Probably wise that I didn't do Chemistry at University.
keeran 14y ago
This is ridiculous! At our school we were over enthusiastic with a thermite experiment that burnt through the workbench, the floor and into the room below - with no consequences for anyone involved (though the teacher probably never ran that experiment again). I expect I would have been charged with WMD possession in the States? Sickening.
- rollo_tommasi 14y ago
  Only if you're poor and/or black. If you're able to attend private school, or a public school in an affluent district, you'd be fine. The rules are applied very differently depending on what social class you belong to.
rms 14y ago
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline
- ck2 14y ago
  omg that is horrifying - everyone needs to read the wikipedia article linked above So many lives ruined before even becoming teenagers. Where are their lobbyists?
  - ljf 14y ago
    Dear lord that is depressing, even more so this article linked to from wikipedia:http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/August/12-crt-993.html http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/August/12-crt-993.html Quote: The department’s investigation showed that the agencies have helped to operate a school-to-prison pipeline whereby children arrested in local schools become entangled in a cycle of incarceration without substantive and procedural protections required by the U.S. Constitution. The department’s findings show that children in Lauderdale County have been routinely and repeatedly incarcerated for allegedly committing school disciplinary infractions and are punished disproportionately, without constitutionally required procedural safeguards. Children have also been arrested at school for offenses as minor as defiance. Furthermore, children on probation are routinely arrested and incarcerated for allegedly violating their probation by committing minor school infractions, such as dress code violations, which result in suspensions. The department’s investigation showed that students most affected by this system are African-American children and children with disabilities.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "Where are their lobbyists?" Where's their money? (AKA "speech").
- andyjohnson0 14y ago
  See also "With Police in Schools, More Children in Court" [1] in the New York Times. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/education/with-police-in-schools-more-children-in-court.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/education/with-police-in-s...
rdouble 14y ago
It sounds like a drano bomb: http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp
- droithomme 14y ago
  That's definitely what it was from the description - household chemicals in a plastic bottle that went boom and gave off smoke. This guy here makes a very good argument that it is a reaction and not an explosion under ATF guidelines defining how strong something has to be to be an explosion: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110928103240AA0tCGj http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110928103240AA... He also notes that 2Al + 3H2SO4 -> 3H2 + Al2(SO4)3 is not on the prohibited list of reactions that are federally impermissible without a license.
rohitkhare 14y ago
Is there a "defense fund" to contribute to? Any other constructive actions to suggest?
- alan_cx 14y ago
  Cant some science favouring educational establishment give her a scholarship?
nnq 14y ago
> She will be tried as an adult. I don't know much about US law, but how tf could this be even possible?!
charonn0 14y ago
Why are these school administrators even drawing a salary if they cannot or will not exercise their judgment in carrying out their duties?
DanBC 14y ago
Using police and criminal courts to enforce school rules is a well known problem in the US. It destroys lives and seems to be doing nothing to improve behaviour. Calling it a 'science experiment gone wrong' is perhaps a bit disingenuous. Had she written down anything about methodology or expected results or any 'chemistry words' at all? Or had she just seen something on YouTube and decided to have a go? Still, this kind of youthful experimentation should be guided into safer forms, and not crushed under the boots of law enforcement.
- kyrra 14y ago
  Knowing several teachers, it's not surprising that schools use the the police and courts to deal with kids. I would say parents started it first and ruined it for everyone else. Schools are afraid of being sued, so it is easier and safer for them (legally) to use police/courts to deal with child disiplinary issues. One if my friends was complaining about the % of their school budget that is set aside for dealing with legal issues (being sued by parents). That is money not being used to teach kids. We really need to return more power to teachers and school administrators so they can do their jobs without the legal system. But to do that, they need some basic legal protection.
  - john_b 14y ago
    The irony is that school is essentially an institution which allows you to outsource your child's education, and--to a lesser extent--their discipline. Yet because parents have complained so much about the disciplinary actions of schools in the past few decades, American schools now outsource the major discipline to the police. From a financial and risk minimization perspective, schools are behaving rationally, but parents and police are not.
- UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
  I was really shocked to learn that most US secondary schools ("K12") have a police officer in them and if you get into trouble the police officer will literally come and "arrest" you. I don't even know where to start pointing out what is wrong with THAT...
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tragomaskhalos 14y ago
Nothing says "victory for terrorism" more eloquently that this disgraceful overreaction, triggered by fear and hysteria.
- pekk 14y ago
  Such overreactions also occurred in the 80s and 90s.
Vivtek 14y ago
"She made a bad choice." Jesus. No, this interested student made what, to any scientist in the history of the world, would have to be considered a good choice - mix some stuff and see what happens, outdoors and well away from anybody. This is the new American culture of fear. It's what will ruin America - is already doing so.
- pekk 14y ago
  Bad as this is for the girl, it's dramatic overexaggeration to say that this is "ruining America." If anything actually ruins America it would be economic depression, major war decimating generations, internal strife or massive crime waves, installation of a dictator, pandemics, etc. And if you think kids were not being subjected to intensely unfair suppression in the 30s then you may be a bit naive.
  - Vivtek 14y ago
    Kids were allowed to discover things in the 30s - yeah, allowed to die, too, if they were poor. But you cannot have a creative culture if you're scared to death of all risk. America's edge has always been due to risk-takers, and we're doing our damndest never to expose our kids to the least bit of risk, to the point now, as in this case, of explicit criminalization of risk-takers. And if you think that's not going to ruin what I remember as being a pretty kick-ass nation, then I'm not the naive one. I can only assume you don't have kids in school at the moment, or your kids have an exceptional school.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    No, those things won't destroy America as all of those examples can be worked around and America can be rebuild. But the people who have to rebuild her are people like the girl here - and without those people there may be a bunch of buildings in the geographical area that was once North America, but it will not be worthy of America.
    - maxmcd 14y ago
      Most of the things mentioned are things that have destroyed large and established civilizations in the past. It seems unwisely dismissive to just say the United States could just "rebuild" from one of those things. Keep in mind he/she doesn't specifically mention that any of those things are currently happening in the United States.
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jongibbins 14y ago
Only in America ....
- rooshdi 14y ago
  Welcome to the circus my friend.
  - solistice 14y ago
    Where we require a constant supply of freaks and side show accidents, of clowns and strongmen to feed the show of 3rd rate tabloids. And remember, any circus can only have one director in his impeccable top hat shouting down to the audience, not more and not less.
- pekk 14y ago
  Of course, Britain never had anything so outrageous happen in it.
michaelfeathers 14y ago
Is there any organization that advocates for the repeal of zero tolerance policies in schools? This has been going on for a long time and it is ridiculous.
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LatvjuAvs 14y ago
Filter out people who want to experiment and are interested in experience, send them to prison, all you have left is population who excels at repetition. Profit.
primelens 14y ago
The type of bottle in question can be seen in this video: http://www.wtsp.com/news/reporter/article/312878/79/Teen-girl-arrested-for-science-project-gone-bad http://www.wtsp.com/news/reporter/article/312878/79/Teen-gir... Words fail me! The top of that flimsy little bottle would pop off if she filled it with grape juice and shook hard. "Possession of a weapon" indeed!
psutor 14y ago
This EXACT same thing happened to me. I had some liquid Nitrogen for a science experiment at school, put it in a 20oz Coke bottle. Of course that's not something you do without knowing mostly what will happen, as I suspect was also the case with this girl. I took it to the bathroom (somewhere with no objects or people to damage) and it exploded, making a bit of noise. I was expelled and charged with the same sorts of felony charges - constructing a bomb, detonating a bomb at a school, etc. With a small bit of lawyering the charges were reduced to one count of misdemeanor disorderly conduct for making a loud noise. For that I was able to get "diversion" (like a lighter form of probation for juveniles), just some community service and drug testing, and could have my record sealed at 18. I was not, however, able to successfully appeal my expulsion. I hope that this girl will be able to get a similar outcome and not end up as a felon because of this silliness. This was in the middle of my 10th grade year. My next two and a half years doing home schooling and at the only private school in the city that would take me were terrific, I am very glad my life took a turn the way it did.
- rossjudson 14y ago
  It's great that your parents had money for "lawyering" and "private school"! It would have sucked otherwise, no?
  - psutor 14y ago
    Yep, it used up most of what they had set aside for college though, which contributed in large part to my not finishing college, but that is something I am also glad turned out the way it did.
- smtddr 14y ago
  So... I must ask you... are you, what america would consider, "African american" or of african descent?
  - psutor 14y ago
    No, I am not, I am very white and nerdy. I am surprised at how much of the discussion here has focused on race and racism. I don't see that being a factor here; this is simply how public schools in America work. I did not, however, have a perfect disciplinary record; I had been suspended a couple times for "hacking" type activity.
smiddereens 14y ago
If you're making anything but meth in Florida you must be punished.
alan_cx 14y ago
To me, she is almost the perfect kid. She is curious, proactive and resourceful. What more could she be? I really, really hate to conclude this, let alone say so in public, but I think the answer to my question is: "white". If she were my student, I'd have her back after school, under decent supervision, to see what else she want to blow up, or to put it the proper way, experimental with. Hell, use it to kick of the most inspirational after school chemistry club ever. Man, what are these people thinking? So sad, a child's natural curiosity becomes criminal. That should never ever happen. Reminds me of child hackers who end up in the clutches of the law. The whole thing is perverse and absurd.
- kabdib 14y ago
  Yup. "Sorry, but we're going to have to punish you by having you stay after school. In the lab. While you help us make highly exothermic reactions. Safely. For science." :-)
- csense 14y ago
  > what are these people thinking? Due to humanity's tribal history, people have a propensity to think of things in an "us vs them" situation. The other, the alien, the enemy. It's why people readily look for someone different to blame: Hitler could blame the Jews (Godwin's law FTW!), Marx could blame the rich, and blacks and whites can continue to blame each other. She's a genius. (A black genius to boot, I'm given to understand.) Not one of us, not something familiar. So it's not hard to view her as both a threat, and not human in the same way that people you know are human. Because most of the people you know don't do things like this. (Where by "you" I mean "a random US person," not "a random HN reader." And by "genius" I mean "the average person's perception of someone who mixes together chemicals and makes them blow up," not "the legitimate inferences that can be made about her cognitive abilities based solely on the fact that she performed this particular science experiment.") Add to that the zero-tolerance policies which may actually say in black and white that she needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law, the racial undercurrents which may mean that too many of those involved view the situation in literally black and white, ... Of course, AFAIK zero-tolerance rules started to become popular after the Columbine high school massacre. So they were intended to protect the community's children from dying in a hail of bullets. For the federal prosecutor, it's just another day, another felony conviction, another varmint pelt on the wall to advance your career. This is what they're thinking.
adventured 14y ago
In response to mob / crowd politics and mentality (heavily driven by the tort problems, fear of lawsuits), America has become a lazy nation that does what's expedient to shut the most people up and 'resolve' a situation. That by default tends to drift toward harsh penalties, since the draconian level of the punishment favors what the squeakiest wheel in the mob wants. If you want to fix the drift toward criminalization of trivial things, get some heavy momentum going on tort reform. Sooner the better.
dccoolgai 14y ago
This is insane... anyone have links to petitions or anything like that? I feel like I should do something...
jcampbell1 14y ago
This is sad. In my youth, I bursted hundreds of soda bottles. It is amazing how much noise it makes (similar to a shotgun), but it is harmless. Sometimes I would explode them with toilet bowl cleaner and foil, but my all time favorite was exploding one at the dinner table. I was trying to make seltzer with dry ice and water. My parents were not amused, but thank god I didn't try that at school.
squozzer 14y ago
All children must be broken. Especially the smart and ambitious ones.
asynchronous13 14y ago
Gordon Moore used to mix chemicals and make explosions when he was a boy. He even lost part of hearing due to his "experiments". You might know him better as a founder of Intel, or the guy that "Moore's Law" is named after. If he had grown up in today's society, he'd be a felon and Intel wouldn't exist. I worry about what we might be losing when we don't allow children to experiment.
- nlh 14y ago
  > I worry what we might be losing when we don't allow children to experiment Totally agreed. I can hear her in my head saying this: "Well that's the last time I experiment with anything new. I learned my lesson." And that makes me sad.
wahsd 14y ago
Wow! Just, wow! I have to agree that there is quite a good likelihood that this is only a felony ... to be tried as an adult ... let that sink in for a second or two ... because she is black. We all know it. And I say that as a very fortunate, white, male that realizes how the world works. It's sad, sad and pathetic, and sadistic; as our society it dominated by sadistic values.
klintcho 14y ago
When i went to 8th grade (in Sweden) we did an experiment in chemistry class where we would put a tiny bit of Sodium into a bowl of water to see it fizzle about (reacting with the water), all students where allowed to carry out this on our own. However a group of student (unaware of the possible consequences) took a chunk of sodium and put it in the water, violent reaction of course which left mark in the ceiling and glass everywhere. Nothing came out of this other than quite a long talk about dangers in chemistry and so on.
01Michael10 14y ago
No priors, no known intent to actually blow something up, and no one was hurt. This can't be handled in school and not require the police and courts? The school to prison pipeline continues...
dccoolgai 14y ago
Can we start a Hacker News Scholarship Fund for her or something? I'm in for a couple hundred $...
snambi 14y ago
This is bad. kids are supposed to experiment. If it goes bad, so what? The law seems to be too dumb here. Her intention is to not kill anyone or damage anything. Intention is to experiment something. Why would she be expelled and put in jail for that?
riveteye 14y ago
I know exactly the kind of mindset it takes to do 'experiments' like this: Clever, mischievous, inquisitive, questioning, maybe even a little defiant but not malicious. Never malicious. Authorities don't understand that knowledge and experience isn't inherently evil. If you want to prevent events like what happened in Boston, you can't do it through the policing and control of knowledge. It's impossible! I'm a girl like this girl, I had a perfect record in high school, but still (to this day!) enjoy learning about how the universe works through explosions and experiments and hands on demonstrations of half-formed understandings, because it's the best way to learn! Doing this kind of thing at school was probably a bad call. But hell, I made dry ice bombs in the football field with my physics club in 2001, and it was seriously the most fun I ever had on school property. I get this fear sometimes, a fear I call 'afraid-to-science', when I'm doing something really interesting but that could be potentially dangerous, I feel it even when I've taken all possible safety precautions, even when I know my rights, because we are all criminals sometimes if portrayed in the wrong light. If the powers-that-be decide to shine the wrong spotlight on you. Just like this girl is getting the full brunt of now...Anyway. I would also be interested in contributing to a defense fund for Kiera Wilmot. Always be learning, girl. Learning is the most worthwhile thing you can do, never stop.
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pasbesoin 14y ago
I'm developing "zero tolerance" for the morons infesting and increasingly apparently driving the decisions of our society.
bproctor 14y ago
I don't think there is enough information in this article to be making judgement calls.
rada 14y ago
In this report from 2008, black students in Florida were two and a half times more likely to be arrested, referred to court, and waived to adult courts: http://www.iamforkids.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Promise-5-Reports.pdf http://www.iamforkids.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Promise... In particular, black Florida youth were almost twice as likely to be referred to adult courts as white youth. I knew about DWB (driving while black) but apparently, LWB (learning while black) is a "thing" too: http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,238611,00.html http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,238611,00.... Quote: A study [...] reports that black students, although they made up just 30% of the population of Miami-Dade County public schools in 2000-01, accounted for half the school arrests in that district.
pvnick 14y ago
When I was in middle school, I had a few science teachers who would actually show us how to make bombs during experiments. We made and set off a few dry ice bombs, and at one point we were mixing chemicals and our teacher said "watch this" and proceeded to mix something with something else which set off an explosion similar to a shotgun blast, shattering the test tube holding the mixture - much to the excitement of us students. What a great way to demonstrate the laws of thermodynamics! I am now in college studying biochemistry, in part because of the lessons I learned early on that science can be fun. The paranoia that is gripping this country is absurd and intellectually stifling. The reaction to this student's behavior should be guided encouragement, not knee-jerk punishment.
sonabinu 14y ago
That is bad justice
cantankerous 14y ago
So much for criminal intent. I mixed all kinds of crap together to see what would happen when I was a kid. Glad I didn't grow up here!
joemaller1 14y ago
Obviously, the solution is to ban science.
oddshocks 14y ago
Seems a bit harsh, eh?
dromidas 14y ago
This sounds like the toiletbowl cleaner + aluminum foil in a sealed 20 oz or 2liter bottle "experiments" I would do as a kid. I blew up a lot of bottles back then lol, it was so much fun. But quite toxic to breathe, so had to exercise more common sense than a rock.
mathattack 14y ago
Give her a college scholarship. If she were on the football team, they'd sweep it under the rug.

345 points by comex 14y ago

ars 14y ago

For some reason I just don't believe the article as written. I suspect she took the chemicals without any permission, and the "experiment" was more in line with "oooo, chemicals, lets mix them together randomly".

spamizbad 14y ago
If the part about the good grades and perfect record are true: Why would a student in good standing do something like that maliciously? It doesn't fit the "profile" of a good student.
- illuminate 14y ago
  Fireworks are simultaneously "malicious" and "awe-inspiring". Similarly, drano bombs are "dangerous" and "exciting".
vineel 14y ago
Even if that's all she did, it doesn't warrant an expulsion or a felony charge.
- ars 14y ago
  If that's the case then I agree - but since I don't trust the article, I have no way of knowing what really happened.
  - raimondious 14y ago
    I agree that the article seems biased; however, it's hard to think of an alternative situation that should lead to a felony charge.
guiambros 14y ago
I believe it was more like "wanna see something cool? I'll make this cap fly to the roof". Like Menthos + Coke on steroids. Seems the "science experiment" part was just a cheap excuse, to try to get a free pass. Ironically, it may have made it worse for her.. I did similar things as a kid, just not in school. Bad judgement, but expelled from school and facing trial is just ridiculous. If my kids were in that school, I'd seriously consider moving.

steve19 14y ago

There must be more to this than what Maimi New Times is reporting. When I was in school half the kids in science class were constantly scheming on how to get their hands on chemicals to mix them, heat them and generally be irresponsible. Edit: I suspect she stole the chemicals and/or this was a repeat offense.

rpedroso 14y ago
It's probably worth noting, as someone who lives in Miami, that the New Times is considered closer to a tabloid than a reputable journal. I can't speak for this particular article, but I would not be surprised if there were editorializing substantially.
- illuminate 14y ago
  It's an alt-weekly. Not really tabloid, but definitely covers local issues that the mainstream papers wouldn't.
joenathan 14y ago
>Edit: I suspect she stole the chemicals and/or this was a repeat offense. There are no grounds to suspect such, the article says "Kiera Wilmot got good grades and had a perfect behavior record.". It's more reasonable to assume that this reaction is a result of the increased fear that recent bombings and school shootings have brought about.
- olefoo 14y ago
  My immediate reaction to seeing the multiple occurrences of "She must have done something to deserve it." in this thread was "Because, Racism!". But on second thought, it's probably just the reflexive servility of the average american. The "authorities" charged her with something, so they must be right. Bah, I mean, what's one more black girl driven to a life of marginalization and petty crime because she was too inquisitive; after all. She wasn't the first, she won't be the last; the system is supposed to divert people like her into career paths appropriate to her social status; in this case, curiosity about vinegar and baking soda means that meth cook is her only viable career choice; because it's not like she could learn enough to be an actual chemist or anything... This country is FCKD, if we are wasting the potential intellectual capacity of our young, like we are here.

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dangrossman 14y ago

Another source: http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/312750/250/Student-accused-of-setting-off-explosion-on-campus http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/312750/250/Stude... According to this report, she brought the bottles of chemicals from home to the school at 7AM (likely before first classes), where she mixed them and caused the explosion. Not quite the same as mixing the wrong vials in chem lab without permission.

Confusion 14y ago
It says she brought A bottle and then mixed the ingredients. God knows what actually happened, but the journalist certainly isn't giving an accurate depiction.
voyou 14y ago
Yes, if anything the fact that she brought the chemicals from home makes the case even less serious - chemicals brought from home aren't all that likely to be dangerous, whereas chemistry labs can have some unpleasant chemicals in them.
- Filligree 14y ago
  Do you have bleach in your cupboard? Maybe ammonia? :-) To be fair, most children are told very early never to mix those.

United857 14y ago

So... what were the chemicals involved? Article is very vague. Some stuff is obviously more dangerous than others.

Luyt 14y ago
I think putting baking soda and vinegar into a bottle and then closing it. Coke and menthos is also a possibility, but the article speaks about 'household chemicals', not candy and fizzy drink...
- alan_cx 14y ago
  A sensationalist tabloid in the UK might well call candy ( sweets UK) and fizzy drinks "house hold chemicals" to ramp up the "evil" factor. Frankly I am please to see the word "terror" hasn't been weaved in just yet.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
arethuza 14y ago
Might be a "drano bomb": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaiCdX1XWc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaiCdX1XWc

Lewton 14y ago

She will be tried as an adult? That's ridiculous, even if she was being intentionally malicious (Which I don't really believe). How do they determine whether to try kids as adults in america?

EllaMentry 14y ago
If the statistics are to be believed race and gender and age, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_as_an_adult#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_as_an_adult#Demographics
- nraynaud 14y ago
  on a totally off-topic note the next paragraph is quite funny: "Advocates for the abolition of juvenile court Critics of the juvenile court argue that the definitions of childhood and adolescence that were used to establish the first juvenile courts in America are no longer equivalent to the definitions of childhood and adolescence today. These critics state that the boundary between juvenile and adult is no longer as clear, as children appear to grow up faster, with more exposure to adult ideas, and as adults more often engage in juvenile behaviors and activities." That's quite a charge against 21yo drinking limit, but I don't imagine the same person using the same arguments in both contexts...
  - adrr 14y ago
    Drinking age, handgun ownership age, age of consent,cigarette smoking age have all moved up to either 18 or 21.
    - __del__ 14y ago
      As has the age for working in the mines.
cbsmith 14y ago
Yeah, the question I keep asking myself is, "what possible scenario could _possibly_ be a better case for charging this kid as a child?"

jerrya 14y ago

I read this, and if this story is anywhere near accurate, I can only wonder what the hell is wrong with adults today. What is wrong with administrators, and what is wrong with prosecutors? And where are the lawyers working pro-bono to defend her? And where are the other parents in the school to demand the school do the right thing? I am appalled and saddened by the crap we force today's youths and young adults to put up with. Zero tolerance has to go.

georgemcbay 14y ago
"I read this, and if this story is anywhere near accurate, I can only wonder what the hell is wrong with adults today." There are likely a number of factors but the worst seems to be that they are scared to death by the mainstream media on a nearly daily basis. Fear sells. "Could a couple of common household chemicals kill your family slowly and painfully if mixed incorrectly by a high school student? Tune in at 11 to find out."

ck2 14y ago

Expulsion? Seriously? I am grasping at straws here but since it's Florida is it possible she is "the wrong color" ? Would another kid just get a suspension at best? Horrible to be thinking that way. Did she have prior issues? If there were prior issues with warnings/suspensions, yeah I could see expulsion. If first time ever in trouble, there is something else going on here. perfect behavior record seems to suggest no priors. added: apparently this is an institutionalized system she was just shoved into, please read the link in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5636788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5636788

dangrossman 14y ago
Zero tolerance rules: most schools have had them for a long time now. Anything that explodes is a weapon, and weapons on school grounds are an automatic expulsion.
- ck2 14y ago
  So if a kid put a mentos in his soda at lunch, that's an expulsion?
  - dangrossman 14y ago
    Possibly, if any kind of administrator dares call it an explosion. I'm not in favor of zero-tolerance policies either, just acknowledging how common they've become. Packing a metal butter knife in a lunch box can lead to expulsion these days (it's happened several times, and made the news each time).
    - dmxt 14y ago
      Plastic knife also count, my friend got suspensed from school for bringing that.
      - pekk 14y ago
        Ouch. Maybe now all our dishes and utensils can be small discs. Made of pleather.

rikacomet 14y ago

Ok, what she did was something stupid, but remember, how many times good scientists have failed like this, this is actually thinking out of the box, no one was in the vicinity, she was clearly not using this to hurt anyone, the intention was clear here, a OUT-OF-BOX experiment, she was sure no one would give her the go, since it might have been as per her judgement, on the line of safety. So what? if it went bad? If it had went good, you all be calling her a genius or something! Expulsion from the school? This is ridiculous! At max suspend her for a week, so she thinks it through, her parents should sue this school, if nothing, for causing a good kid such trauma, a good student gets devastated by a expulsion, cause it sticks, on her hard work. No wonder we asians are talking up the good jobs in America, if this is the policy for such out-of-box thinking. If I had done that, ten people would have asked my well being here in India, and at max, I would have had to pay the cost of destruction, and later, me and my friends would laugh it off, since its pretty badass.. blown up the roof pfft!

seanp2k2 14y ago
>"No wonder we asians are talking up the good jobs in America, if this is the policy for such out-of-box thinking." I don't feel that race is relevant here.
- rikacomet 14y ago
  race is not, but educational background is. India & China are producing more graduates, post graduates, then any other country in the world. This is a known fact.
  - asdashopping 14y ago
    In absolute terms or per capita? They are (by quite a wide margin) the most populous countries in the world.
    - philhippus 14y ago
      Well, India has a millionaire population the same size as the entire United Kingdom. But that still leaves over a billion in poverty.

eridius 14y ago

This seems like a textbook case of why zero-tolerance rules are terrible.

anon1685 14y ago

Even if the girl practiced poor judgement, it's obvious she was not malicious. it's remarkable how the US has become completely intolerant to people making mistakes. So according to the article we have a girl with good grades and behavior doing something stupid which did not cause any damage or hurt anyone. Her punishment for this is expulsion and trial as adult?

katherineparker 14y ago
Agree. I guess they (the school) really fear that this could be a repetitive trend and they want to crush it by throwing the expulsion in for her. It is unfortunate because - like you said - she doesn't seem malicious.

tlrobinson 14y ago

For my high school physics group project we built a 20 foot air compressor powered potato cannon. We got a few good shots off across the football field before one of the joints failed spectacularly. Fortunately no one was injured, aside from some temporary hearing loss. I have no idea why they let us do that, and I'm pretty sure we got an A, but this is absurdly on the other end of possible reactions.

venomsnake 14y ago

First rule of organic chemistry - if you mix something organic with enough nitric acid in the presence of enough sulphuric acid to use as a catalyst chances of getting something that can blow up in your hands are high. And it is something not worthy of felony charge. The message that is sent is terrible.

quannabe 14y ago

'Science experiment' my ass. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing--making a 'Works-Bomb'. Don't be naive, did the same thing when I was her age, just not at school.

dredmorbius 14y ago

Several decades ago, in a Galaxy not very far away, a high school student mentioned to his friend that he had an M-80 he'd stashed in his locker for a while, and it was time to do something with it. The firework was lit and tossed into one of the steel barrels used as garbage containers on campus. The two walked down the hall, noted the several seconds of absolute silence which settled over campus following the blast, and walked into the classroom of a teacher they both had, which was generally open during lunch. The teacher looked at both of them, shook his head and said, "Gentlemen..." with a slight smile. One of the students retyped spirit copier forms (this was several decades ago) for a teacher following lunch. The typewriter used sat in the vestibule to the principle's office. He listened that hour while the yard patrol supervisor and secretary discussed "the bomb" which had gone off, as the faint smell of burned garbage wafted through the building. That day's work had more than the usual share of errors. Nothing more ever came of it. My, how the world has changed.

bobsy 14y ago
So... a few friends and I were discussing what would happen if we lit the gas tap in the science lab. We were 11-12 and I think I had just seen an episode of Bottom with a lit gas pipe. We were strangely unattended in a science lab that day. I turned on the tap and a friend lit it. Queue a rather cool jet of flame in the middle of the room. Teacher I guess saw the glow coming from the room. Turned it off. Received bollocking like none other and a 2 day suspension to underline the seriousness of this. Notably we were not accused of either arson or trying to blow up the school. Youthful - unacceptable - misadventure. As usual there aren't any facts on what this girl was doing. On the surface though it seems expulsion and criminal action is way over the top.
- arethuza 14y ago
  I made gun cotton as part of a 6th year Chemistry project (this is Scotland where we had strange exams) - I was making a variety of early plastics and we had a lab and access to the chemicals store with hardly any supervision. When the Head of Chemistry found out he called me an idiot, got me to go to the groundsmans store and get a spade and go and bury the gun cotton somewhere. Then there was the time I wasn't paying attention when I went to get some sulphuric acid from the store and was doing something and wondering "why is this acid viscous and why are things getting so hot?". Probably wise that I didn't do Chemistry at University.

keeran 14y ago

This is ridiculous! At our school we were over enthusiastic with a thermite experiment that burnt through the workbench, the floor and into the room below - with no consequences for anyone involved (though the teacher probably never ran that experiment again). I expect I would have been charged with WMD possession in the States? Sickening.

rollo_tommasi 14y ago
Only if you're poor and/or black. If you're able to attend private school, or a public school in an affluent district, you'd be fine. The rules are applied very differently depending on what social class you belong to.

rms 14y ago

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline

ck2 14y ago
omg that is horrifying - everyone needs to read the wikipedia article linked above So many lives ruined before even becoming teenagers. Where are their lobbyists?
- ljf 14y ago
  Dear lord that is depressing, even more so this article linked to from wikipedia:http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/August/12-crt-993.html http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/August/12-crt-993.html Quote: The department’s investigation showed that the agencies have helped to operate a school-to-prison pipeline whereby children arrested in local schools become entangled in a cycle of incarceration without substantive and procedural protections required by the U.S. Constitution. The department’s findings show that children in Lauderdale County have been routinely and repeatedly incarcerated for allegedly committing school disciplinary infractions and are punished disproportionately, without constitutionally required procedural safeguards. Children have also been arrested at school for offenses as minor as defiance. Furthermore, children on probation are routinely arrested and incarcerated for allegedly violating their probation by committing minor school infractions, such as dress code violations, which result in suspensions. The department’s investigation showed that students most affected by this system are African-American children and children with disabilities.
- illuminate 14y ago
  "Where are their lobbyists?" Where's their money? (AKA "speech").
andyjohnson0 14y ago
See also "With Police in Schools, More Children in Court" [1] in the New York Times. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/education/with-police-in-schools-more-children-in-court.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/education/with-police-in-s...

rdouble 14y ago

It sounds like a drano bomb: http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp

droithomme 14y ago
That's definitely what it was from the description - household chemicals in a plastic bottle that went boom and gave off smoke. This guy here makes a very good argument that it is a reaction and not an explosion under ATF guidelines defining how strong something has to be to be an explosion: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110928103240AA0tCGj http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110928103240AA... He also notes that 2Al + 3H2SO4 -> 3H2 + Al2(SO4)3 is not on the prohibited list of reactions that are federally impermissible without a license.

rohitkhare 14y ago

Is there a "defense fund" to contribute to? Any other constructive actions to suggest?

alan_cx 14y ago
Cant some science favouring educational establishment give her a scholarship?

nnq 14y ago

> She will be tried as an adult. I don't know much about US law, but how tf could this be even possible?!

charonn0 14y ago

Why are these school administrators even drawing a salary if they cannot or will not exercise their judgment in carrying out their duties?

DanBC 14y ago

Using police and criminal courts to enforce school rules is a well known problem in the US. It destroys lives and seems to be doing nothing to improve behaviour. Calling it a 'science experiment gone wrong' is perhaps a bit disingenuous. Had she written down anything about methodology or expected results or any 'chemistry words' at all? Or had she just seen something on YouTube and decided to have a go? Still, this kind of youthful experimentation should be guided into safer forms, and not crushed under the boots of law enforcement.

kyrra 14y ago
Knowing several teachers, it's not surprising that schools use the the police and courts to deal with kids. I would say parents started it first and ruined it for everyone else. Schools are afraid of being sued, so it is easier and safer for them (legally) to use police/courts to deal with child disiplinary issues. One if my friends was complaining about the % of their school budget that is set aside for dealing with legal issues (being sued by parents). That is money not being used to teach kids. We really need to return more power to teachers and school administrators so they can do their jobs without the legal system. But to do that, they need some basic legal protection.
- john_b 14y ago
  The irony is that school is essentially an institution which allows you to outsource your child's education, and--to a lesser extent--their discipline. Yet because parents have complained so much about the disciplinary actions of schools in the past few decades, American schools now outsource the major discipline to the police. From a financial and risk minimization perspective, schools are behaving rationally, but parents and police are not.
UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
I was really shocked to learn that most US secondary schools ("K12") have a police officer in them and if you get into trouble the police officer will literally come and "arrest" you. I don't even know where to start pointing out what is wrong with THAT...

deleted 14y ago

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tragomaskhalos 14y ago

Nothing says "victory for terrorism" more eloquently that this disgraceful overreaction, triggered by fear and hysteria.

pekk 14y ago
Such overreactions also occurred in the 80s and 90s.

Vivtek 14y ago

"She made a bad choice." Jesus. No, this interested student made what, to any scientist in the history of the world, would have to be considered a good choice - mix some stuff and see what happens, outdoors and well away from anybody. This is the new American culture of fear. It's what will ruin America - is already doing so.

pekk 14y ago
Bad as this is for the girl, it's dramatic overexaggeration to say that this is "ruining America." If anything actually ruins America it would be economic depression, major war decimating generations, internal strife or massive crime waves, installation of a dictator, pandemics, etc. And if you think kids were not being subjected to intensely unfair suppression in the 30s then you may be a bit naive.
- Vivtek 14y ago
  Kids were allowed to discover things in the 30s - yeah, allowed to die, too, if they were poor. But you cannot have a creative culture if you're scared to death of all risk. America's edge has always been due to risk-takers, and we're doing our damndest never to expose our kids to the least bit of risk, to the point now, as in this case, of explicit criminalization of risk-takers. And if you think that's not going to ruin what I remember as being a pretty kick-ass nation, then I'm not the naive one. I can only assume you don't have kids in school at the moment, or your kids have an exceptional school.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  No, those things won't destroy America as all of those examples can be worked around and America can be rebuild. But the people who have to rebuild her are people like the girl here - and without those people there may be a bunch of buildings in the geographical area that was once North America, but it will not be worthy of America.
  - maxmcd 14y ago
    Most of the things mentioned are things that have destroyed large and established civilizations in the past. It seems unwisely dismissive to just say the United States could just "rebuild" from one of those things. Keep in mind he/she doesn't specifically mention that any of those things are currently happening in the United States.

deleted 14y ago

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jongibbins 14y ago

Only in America ....

rooshdi 14y ago
Welcome to the circus my friend.
- solistice 14y ago
  Where we require a constant supply of freaks and side show accidents, of clowns and strongmen to feed the show of 3rd rate tabloids. And remember, any circus can only have one director in his impeccable top hat shouting down to the audience, not more and not less.
pekk 14y ago
Of course, Britain never had anything so outrageous happen in it.

michaelfeathers 14y ago

Is there any organization that advocates for the repeal of zero tolerance policies in schools? This has been going on for a long time and it is ridiculous.

deleted 14y ago

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LatvjuAvs 14y ago

Filter out people who want to experiment and are interested in experience, send them to prison, all you have left is population who excels at repetition. Profit.

primelens 14y ago

The type of bottle in question can be seen in this video: http://www.wtsp.com/news/reporter/article/312878/79/Teen-girl-arrested-for-science-project-gone-bad http://www.wtsp.com/news/reporter/article/312878/79/Teen-gir... Words fail me! The top of that flimsy little bottle would pop off if she filled it with grape juice and shook hard. "Possession of a weapon" indeed!

psutor 14y ago

This EXACT same thing happened to me. I had some liquid Nitrogen for a science experiment at school, put it in a 20oz Coke bottle. Of course that's not something you do without knowing mostly what will happen, as I suspect was also the case with this girl. I took it to the bathroom (somewhere with no objects or people to damage) and it exploded, making a bit of noise. I was expelled and charged with the same sorts of felony charges - constructing a bomb, detonating a bomb at a school, etc. With a small bit of lawyering the charges were reduced to one count of misdemeanor disorderly conduct for making a loud noise. For that I was able to get "diversion" (like a lighter form of probation for juveniles), just some community service and drug testing, and could have my record sealed at 18. I was not, however, able to successfully appeal my expulsion. I hope that this girl will be able to get a similar outcome and not end up as a felon because of this silliness. This was in the middle of my 10th grade year. My next two and a half years doing home schooling and at the only private school in the city that would take me were terrific, I am very glad my life took a turn the way it did.

rossjudson 14y ago
It's great that your parents had money for "lawyering" and "private school"! It would have sucked otherwise, no?
- psutor 14y ago
  Yep, it used up most of what they had set aside for college though, which contributed in large part to my not finishing college, but that is something I am also glad turned out the way it did.
smtddr 14y ago
So... I must ask you... are you, what america would consider, "African american" or of african descent?
- psutor 14y ago
  No, I am not, I am very white and nerdy. I am surprised at how much of the discussion here has focused on race and racism. I don't see that being a factor here; this is simply how public schools in America work. I did not, however, have a perfect disciplinary record; I had been suspended a couple times for "hacking" type activity.

smiddereens 14y ago

If you're making anything but meth in Florida you must be punished.

alan_cx 14y ago

To me, she is almost the perfect kid. She is curious, proactive and resourceful. What more could she be? I really, really hate to conclude this, let alone say so in public, but I think the answer to my question is: "white". If she were my student, I'd have her back after school, under decent supervision, to see what else she want to blow up, or to put it the proper way, experimental with. Hell, use it to kick of the most inspirational after school chemistry club ever. Man, what are these people thinking? So sad, a child's natural curiosity becomes criminal. That should never ever happen. Reminds me of child hackers who end up in the clutches of the law. The whole thing is perverse and absurd.

kabdib 14y ago
Yup. "Sorry, but we're going to have to punish you by having you stay after school. In the lab. While you help us make highly exothermic reactions. Safely. For science." :-)
csense 14y ago
> what are these people thinking? Due to humanity's tribal history, people have a propensity to think of things in an "us vs them" situation. The other, the alien, the enemy. It's why people readily look for someone different to blame: Hitler could blame the Jews (Godwin's law FTW!), Marx could blame the rich, and blacks and whites can continue to blame each other. She's a genius. (A black genius to boot, I'm given to understand.) Not one of us, not something familiar. So it's not hard to view her as both a threat, and not human in the same way that people you know are human. Because most of the people you know don't do things like this. (Where by "you" I mean "a random US person," not "a random HN reader." And by "genius" I mean "the average person's perception of someone who mixes together chemicals and makes them blow up," not "the legitimate inferences that can be made about her cognitive abilities based solely on the fact that she performed this particular science experiment.") Add to that the zero-tolerance policies which may actually say in black and white that she needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law, the racial undercurrents which may mean that too many of those involved view the situation in literally black and white, ... Of course, AFAIK zero-tolerance rules started to become popular after the Columbine high school massacre. So they were intended to protect the community's children from dying in a hail of bullets. For the federal prosecutor, it's just another day, another felony conviction, another varmint pelt on the wall to advance your career. This is what they're thinking.

adventured 14y ago

In response to mob / crowd politics and mentality (heavily driven by the tort problems, fear of lawsuits), America has become a lazy nation that does what's expedient to shut the most people up and 'resolve' a situation. That by default tends to drift toward harsh penalties, since the draconian level of the punishment favors what the squeakiest wheel in the mob wants. If you want to fix the drift toward criminalization of trivial things, get some heavy momentum going on tort reform. Sooner the better.

dccoolgai 14y ago

This is insane... anyone have links to petitions or anything like that? I feel like I should do something...

jcampbell1 14y ago

This is sad. In my youth, I bursted hundreds of soda bottles. It is amazing how much noise it makes (similar to a shotgun), but it is harmless. Sometimes I would explode them with toilet bowl cleaner and foil, but my all time favorite was exploding one at the dinner table. I was trying to make seltzer with dry ice and water. My parents were not amused, but thank god I didn't try that at school.

squozzer 14y ago

All children must be broken. Especially the smart and ambitious ones.

asynchronous13 14y ago

Gordon Moore used to mix chemicals and make explosions when he was a boy. He even lost part of hearing due to his "experiments". You might know him better as a founder of Intel, or the guy that "Moore's Law" is named after. If he had grown up in today's society, he'd be a felon and Intel wouldn't exist. I worry about what we might be losing when we don't allow children to experiment.

nlh 14y ago
> I worry what we might be losing when we don't allow children to experiment Totally agreed. I can hear her in my head saying this: "Well that's the last time I experiment with anything new. I learned my lesson." And that makes me sad.

wahsd 14y ago

Wow! Just, wow! I have to agree that there is quite a good likelihood that this is only a felony ... to be tried as an adult ... let that sink in for a second or two ... because she is black. We all know it. And I say that as a very fortunate, white, male that realizes how the world works. It's sad, sad and pathetic, and sadistic; as our society it dominated by sadistic values.

klintcho 14y ago

When i went to 8th grade (in Sweden) we did an experiment in chemistry class where we would put a tiny bit of Sodium into a bowl of water to see it fizzle about (reacting with the water), all students where allowed to carry out this on our own. However a group of student (unaware of the possible consequences) took a chunk of sodium and put it in the water, violent reaction of course which left mark in the ceiling and glass everywhere. Nothing came out of this other than quite a long talk about dangers in chemistry and so on.

01Michael10 14y ago

No priors, no known intent to actually blow something up, and no one was hurt. This can't be handled in school and not require the police and courts? The school to prison pipeline continues...

dccoolgai 14y ago

Can we start a Hacker News Scholarship Fund for her or something? I'm in for a couple hundred $...

snambi 14y ago

This is bad. kids are supposed to experiment. If it goes bad, so what? The law seems to be too dumb here. Her intention is to not kill anyone or damage anything. Intention is to experiment something. Why would she be expelled and put in jail for that?

riveteye 14y ago

I know exactly the kind of mindset it takes to do 'experiments' like this: Clever, mischievous, inquisitive, questioning, maybe even a little defiant but not malicious. Never malicious. Authorities don't understand that knowledge and experience isn't inherently evil. If you want to prevent events like what happened in Boston, you can't do it through the policing and control of knowledge. It's impossible! I'm a girl like this girl, I had a perfect record in high school, but still (to this day!) enjoy learning about how the universe works through explosions and experiments and hands on demonstrations of half-formed understandings, because it's the best way to learn! Doing this kind of thing at school was probably a bad call. But hell, I made dry ice bombs in the football field with my physics club in 2001, and it was seriously the most fun I ever had on school property. I get this fear sometimes, a fear I call 'afraid-to-science', when I'm doing something really interesting but that could be potentially dangerous, I feel it even when I've taken all possible safety precautions, even when I know my rights, because we are all criminals sometimes if portrayed in the wrong light. If the powers-that-be decide to shine the wrong spotlight on you. Just like this girl is getting the full brunt of now...Anyway. I would also be interested in contributing to a defense fund for Kiera Wilmot. Always be learning, girl. Learning is the most worthwhile thing you can do, never stop.

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pasbesoin 14y ago

I'm developing "zero tolerance" for the morons infesting and increasingly apparently driving the decisions of our society.

bproctor 14y ago

I don't think there is enough information in this article to be making judgement calls.

rada 14y ago

In this report from 2008, black students in Florida were two and a half times more likely to be arrested, referred to court, and waived to adult courts: http://www.iamforkids.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Promise-5-Reports.pdf http://www.iamforkids.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Promise... In particular, black Florida youth were almost twice as likely to be referred to adult courts as white youth. I knew about DWB (driving while black) but apparently, LWB (learning while black) is a "thing" too: http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,238611,00.html http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,238611,00.... Quote: A study [...] reports that black students, although they made up just 30% of the population of Miami-Dade County public schools in 2000-01, accounted for half the school arrests in that district.

pvnick 14y ago

When I was in middle school, I had a few science teachers who would actually show us how to make bombs during experiments. We made and set off a few dry ice bombs, and at one point we were mixing chemicals and our teacher said "watch this" and proceeded to mix something with something else which set off an explosion similar to a shotgun blast, shattering the test tube holding the mixture - much to the excitement of us students. What a great way to demonstrate the laws of thermodynamics! I am now in college studying biochemistry, in part because of the lessons I learned early on that science can be fun. The paranoia that is gripping this country is absurd and intellectually stifling. The reaction to this student's behavior should be guided encouragement, not knee-jerk punishment.

sonabinu 14y ago

That is bad justice

cantankerous 14y ago

So much for criminal intent. I mixed all kinds of crap together to see what would happen when I was a kid. Glad I didn't grow up here!

joemaller1 14y ago

Obviously, the solution is to ban science.

oddshocks 14y ago

Seems a bit harsh, eh?

dromidas 14y ago

This sounds like the toiletbowl cleaner + aluminum foil in a sealed 20 oz or 2liter bottle "experiments" I would do as a kid. I blew up a lot of bottles back then lol, it was so much fun. But quite toxic to breathe, so had to exercise more common sense than a rock.

mathattack 14y ago

Give her a college scholarship. If she were on the football team, they'd sweep it under the rug.