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Bitcoin falls from $266
- mattmaroon 14y agoAt this point I'm just flagging bitcoin price updates. We don't need these here.
- nlh 14y agoTo be fair, this isn't just a price update. This is an event that many people have been waiting anxiously to play out - if this were just a "Bitcoin is at $250" post, fine, I agree. But this is news - the bubble may be popping and that's newsworthy.
- ponyous 14y agoTwo of the largest exchanges seems to be under DDOS (mtgox and bitstamp). And it wasn't 6 hours it was more like 1 hour.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- yaongi 14y agoWhy should they prevent panic selling? They didn't prevent panic buying...
- krcz 14y agoI'm not sure if shutting down is a great idea to prevent panic.
- SilasX 14y agoMost major financial exchanges, however, are sure.
- CodeCube 14y agoJust curious, but where are you getting this graph from?
- ponyous 14y agohttp://bitcoinity.org/markets http://bitcoinity.org/markets
- makomk 14y agoSo far there's just been mysterious lag every time the price starts to drop that stops people from actually selling...
- aychedee 14y agoThat 'lag' is every single person trying to sell their holdings at once.
- ceejayoz 14y ago> I wonder why MtGox doesn't shut down for the day to deter panic selling? Because the next morning everyone panics that MtGox feels they can lock you out of your money and withdraws everything?
- tibbon 14y agoIs that the likely root of that fall? Any idea who/why someone is DDOSing them? And why they are so effective at it? Can't they just use Cloudfront which supposibly 'fixes' DDOS issues?
- theboywho 14y agoMtgox engine has a 40 minute lag, things will eventually go back to normal.
- adamisen 14y agoI think the big question is whether normal is $300 or $30... or $3.
- TheCoelacanth 14y agoSeriously. It was at $30 a few weeks ago. It's hard to say what's normal when things are changing that quickly.
- theboywho 14y agonormal is when there's no lag. Now you can't trust those numbers
- dlhavema 14y agolast post i heard said it was $90.. bitcoin fluctuates more often than most girls i know change clothes.
- mckoss 14y agoWhen real-time trading data is available from MtGox these sites show up to date charts and seem to be the most up-to-date. http://coinlab.com http://coinlab.com http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/
- sukuriant 14y agoWasn't Bitcoin at $100 just a couple of days ago? I feel like I'm watching a penny stock; and, while I would have enjoyed something like a 10x stock value worth if I'd gotten in when I thought to, this variability is scary
- shin_lao 14y agoThere was a lot of BitCoin related press coverage. This is probably related. Volatility is high which will harm the adoption of BitCoin by vendors, which will in turn drive the price down when people realize they can't do anything with their BitCoins, etc.
- erikpukinskis 14y agoBitcoin isn't really in the adoption by vendors stage yet. Two things are happening right now that are driving the price: 1) Adoption in politically sensitive markets (drug dealers, disaporas, people in corrupt states, etc) who have no other options. 2) The slow process of the finance world understanding what Bitcoin is, and how to value it. The first is happening because there is demand for it. The second is happening because global finance organizations seek out and exploit any and all market opportunities. I think what we'll see in the next few years is that #1 will keep growing, and #2 will cause wild swings in bitcoin prices as we develop the technologies and scholarship necessary to truly reckon Bitcoin's value. At that point, the markets will have a good bead on the true adoption rate and the market mechanics, which will allow them to converge on a more stable value. Only then will Bitcoin start to become a good medium for broader consumer exchange. That said, even if it's only ever used for politically sensitive transactions, and it never takes off as a consumer payment service, it will be a very big economy.
- mjackson 14y agoGet ready for the massive pop sound...
- jgoewert 14y agoI'm going to believe that will happen soon. However, right now, it seems to me that Bitcoin is really just going "SHIFT". We have countries like Cyprus yanking money out of banks, so you get some people shifting their money out of country. So, what does it matter what a bitcoin costs if you are going to launder some cash out? 1:1 is a fabulous laundering rate. Buy 200 Euro worth of Bitcoin from an account in Cyprus -> Instantly (or asap) sell for 200 Euro to an account in London. The current price doesn't matter as long as you exchange fast enough or at a profit.
- mikeash 14y agoHow is someone in Cyprus going to buy bitcoins? If the exchange is out of the country, then it doesn't help, because you already have to move the money out of the country to get it to the exchange. If the exchange is within the country, then the rate offered is likely to be far less favorable than elsewhere in the world, because demand is higher.
- ashray 14y agoBefore crying wolf, understand that bitcoin exchanges are unfortunately not battle hardened internet businesses. Two of the largest exchanges MtGox and bitstamp are both under DDOS. This may be an attempt by someone to make a large buy at a cheaper price. Due to lack of trading, prices are going downward. However, BTC China is still trading at above $275! That's the beauty of bitcoin, it isn't restricted to just one region in the world. Yes, the exchanges need to toughen up and it's sad that someone can manipulate prices so easily but bitcoin is still very geek centric and as long as geeks understand and hold their BTCs this can't succeed. Of course, now that regular people are jumping on the bandwagon it'll be interesting to see how events unfold..
- ljlolel 14y agoAgreed, it is geek centric both in terms of early adopters, people who will support this even under attacks, and people who build it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5526118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5526118
- caissy 14y agoI have been following BTC China along side MtGox, and it seems that BTC China is starting to fall also. Price was ¥1700 ($274) 15 minutes ago, and now it runs at ¥1,386.00 ($223). I'm still not sure if this is due to MtGox being DDOS or people panicking and selling everything.
- metachris 14y agoOther exchanges tend to tail MtGox.
- pc86 14y agoIs it possible to buy from MtGox at $200 and sell in BTC China shortly thereafter at $275? I know nothing about BTC.
- ashray 14y agoIf you do have a verified account at both, yes, it should be fairly simple. As of now though it's unlikely that your trades will go through. Also, the price has started falling on BTC China as well.
- trent_91 14y agoSee, it's times like this people should remember that bitcoin is not yet a currency and is rather a toy for things like http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/91 http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/91 and http://satoshidice.com http://satoshidice.com, or for speculators.
- fiatpandas 14y agoOh weird, you accidentally left your referral ID attached to the URL for the pyramid site.
- jeremysmyth 14y agoIt is sorta a currency; you can buy things in selected outlets. But sure, right now the large movements of bitcoins seem to be speculators who treat it as an investment for capital appreciation rather than a currency, and that's not sustainable until it has some objective worth outside of itself.
- derleth 14y ago> bitcoin is not yet a currency Bitcoin is just as much a currency as Ithaca Hours are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours
- 6thSigma 14y agoAm I the only one who thinks of Bitcoin as purely a speculative commodity which is leveraged mostly by the fact that it is in a financial grey area?
- Jtsummers 14y agoNo, that's pretty much a summary of the primary criticism of bitcoin as a currency.
- ihsw 14y agoThe currency itself is very grey, yes, however the transaction network is excellent and high-quality. It's unfortunate that the currency so loudly dominates the news surrounding it. Personally I find the technological achievement of a major, reliable, and international transaction network more impressive.
- Nursie 14y ago"the transaction network is excellent and high-quality." Really? I thought the transaction network was already struggling with SatoshiDice and the volume of transactions it's caused? If that is the case then the network is going to have a lot of trouble coping with increased use in future.
- jlgreco 14y agoI think you are largely correct (and no, you are without doubt not the only person to think that ;). However I do think that to some degree the ability to buy drugs with it plays a role in its value; it is not just a financial toy.
- dinkumthinkum 14y agoNo, that's basically what it is.
- wting 14y agoI'm interested in the price of Bitcoin, but we don't need these daily submissions. If you're interested in following the price, I suggest these links: - https://bitcoinity.org/markets https://bitcoinity.org/markets - http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD - http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ If you're interested in talking about the price, try #bitcoin-pricetalk on Freenode.
- ritchiea 14y agoI appreciate the daily submissions because I am only slightly curious about the price of bitcoin as long as it's interesting and newsworthy (i.e. rising or falling significantly). If the price of bitcoin stabilized it would cease to be newsworthy and I'm sure the daily submissions would stop. I suspect many people feel the way I do, which is why these submissions get upvoted.
- Kaedon 14y agoIt's interesting how quickly its fallen even since this article was posted. It looks like it's around 150 now.
- safwanc 14y ago..and 5 minutes later, its back up to $190 USD/BTC.
- anonymoushn 14y agoIt's not a matter of being up $40 in 5 minutes. The spread is actually $40. Edit: Erm, the above was true a while ago. More recently there were standing orders on both sides around $190, but only 20 btc of liquidity on the bid side between $190 and $150. Edit more: Seeing this again, $44 spread from $106 to $150.
- yxhuvud 14y agoProbably a result of the lag of the trading engine. Neither side of the transactions have up to date information and if there is more selling than buying in such a situation then the spread will be great.
- tptacek 14y agoDon't worry! It won't ever fall below its intrinsic value!
- peejaybee 14y agoPart of me is pulling for Bitcoin, but dang was that funny.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- clicks 14y agoSerious question: Is that really a fair criticism of BTC? Because afterall, our beloved US currency is fiat based, and often subject to whims of geopolitical games.
- sliverstorm 14y agoUS currency isn't backed by gold- it is in a sense backed by the US government. BTC is wholly unbacked.
- jacquesm 14y agoUS currency is backed by the land the US is built on and the means to defend that land, as well as the ability of US citizens to expend their time in a productive way. And to some extent it is currently based on the ability of the United States to protect its interests overseas, the trading of oil in the US dollar and significant trade partners accepting the US dollar as a means of exchange for goods shipped to the US. And that works as long as significant portion of the world continues to believe in all of the above, if that should ever stop I hope I won't be there to watch the carnage. That's the kind of 'interesting times' that one would hope to avoid.
- camus 14y agowhen Europe falls things will change eventually.
- songzme 14y agoTo everyone claiming that bitcoin isn't a currency, no shit! Currency doesn't happen overnight, it's a process to get there. Just like anything revolutionary, it takes time before anyone knows what it will be come. By the time (with a very big IF) bitcoin becomes a viable currency, it's price won't be $200 anymore. It'll be at least a few thousand per coin and people will be transacting in micro bitcoins. What bitcoin is going through right now, is puberty. If you invest early, you reap profits. If you invest after it is stable, there is very little profit to be made. Love and give every new idea a chance until you've used it and have a personal reason to hate it. Negative speculation is for chumps
- Helianthus 14y agoI have a personal reason to hate it: it thinks it's revolutionary when it's actually just... money. It solves no problems because it carries greed with it.
- mattacular 14y agoIt solves the problem of giving Libertarians something to feel good about?
- mattm 14y ago"It" is just a system. It doesn't think anything. It's the people who think it's worth using it for something. So really you hate the people that use it.
- Helianthus 14y agoFair (though a bit pedantic :P). And to be clear, I don't really _hate_ them (or the system). I had to phrase it that way as a rejoinder to his statement; but I am deriving _so_ much amusement out of this whole debacle.
- dcc1 14y agoIt solves two huge problems merchants face 1. Ultra low transaction fees 2. No chargebacks/reversals 1 and 2 are features of Credit Cards and Paypal which make ads up to a sizable % to anyone trying to sell online.
- niico 14y agoCan someone explain me why this could happen? Large amounts of BTCs moving at the same time? What are your theories?
- krcz 14y agoI guess most people were buying BTC because its value was rising really fast. Any price drop could cause them to lose their faith in it and want to sell them. And the drop (or at least growth end) was inevitable, because the price was rising faster than exponentially.
- sixothree 14y agoMy theory is that it's far easier to sell bitcoins than it is to buy or mine them.
- dragonwriter 14y ago> Can someone explain me why this could happen? The market value of a speculative commodity can move for any reason at all, as its entirely a consensus among the people buying and selling as to what other people will be willing to accept for it in the future. > Large amounts of BTCs moving at the same time The charts from mtgox seem to show that volume picked up after the price had plateaued and maybe dropped a little bit and then volume shot up further again after it went through a trough and a lower peak and started back down again, and once it got down around 200 volume dropped briefly and then picked way up (with a lot more price volatility) again when it dropped further to below 175. Intuitively say that the first volume pickup was largely profit taking from the plateau and maybe the slight drop, after the slight rebound and smaller peak, I suspect the longer drop was panic selling, and right now (or, given the apparent delay, an hour or so ago) the high volume, high volatility oscillation is a combination of panic selling, bargain shopping for investment, and people taking advantage of arbitrage opportunities between the low price at mtgox and higher prices on other exchanges. But that's mostly just guesswork based on the look of the price and volume graphs. Where it goes from here...well, we'll see.
- eah13 14y agoThe simple answer is that sellers kept taking the 'ask' prices on the exchange until the only ones left were significantly lower. See this graph of current 'market depth' (existence of bids and asks): http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_depth.html http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_depth.html In a double auction market, there are bids (offers to buy) and asks (offers to sell). The 'market price' is the last price at which a bid or an ask was taken by a market buyer. Taking a bid or ask removes that bid or ask, queueing up the next in line. In an illiquid market, there aren't many bidders and/or askers, leading to price volatility. In a liquid market (such as for US Govt bonds) there are many bidders and askers, meaning the price swings are much more likely due to a significant change in information. Hence my contention that daily volume is the most important stat to watch on the BTC market. It's a proxy for market depth, which is a precondition for liquidity and relative price stability.
- gojomo 14y agoThere hasn't been a buying opportunity this attractive since less than 48 hours ago!
- fr0sty 14y agoJust for reference: as of 2:26ET last trade I can get from the mtGox API was for $157. EDIT: 2:52:00 last trade: $142 2:56:58 last trade: $135 3:10:10 last trade: $117.57 3:20:52 last trade: $106.00 (this is the lowest price I've seen) 3:42:ish trades between $125-$150
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- mckoss 14y agoSomething bad is happening at MtGox - they quote a price of $156 for the last trade - yet my order at $200 was not filled and is still marked as "pending".
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- rubinelli 14y agoIt's just lagging horribly, as in, taking more than one hour between receiving an order and executing it: https://data.mtgox.com/api/1/generic/order/lag https://data.mtgox.com/api/1/generic/order/lag
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- joshuahedlund 14y agoI have a casual interest in economics, markets, currencies, etc, but I don't understand why DDOS attacks would cause the price to drop as opposed to just causing trade and prices to halt altogether?
- Mahn 14y agoPeople buy less, so those wanting to sell have to lower their prices, which makes others panic and sell at a low price, and there you go.
- dinkumthinkum 14y agoSomeone else mentioned panic and that I suspect is right and part of the source for bitcoin that differs from traditional exchanges is that it is a much more risky currency at this point. It is very susceptible to panics, and rightly so. I don't think anyone could seriously invest in bitcoins; it would be the dumbest thing you could do with your money. You'd be better off eating your money and get the caloric value. I'm just being honest about it; maybe it will change one day.
- xoail 14y agoSo if someone decides to sell 1 bitcoin at $157, immediately the lowest price falls to $157, causes panic among other bitcoin-ers and they all start selling, is that how the market works? I am not sure what is going on, I placed an order to buy at $210 but that is still pending since yesterday.
- conanbatt 14y agoIts going down hard now.
- mikecane 14y agoThis is interesting. But I think it's only test to see how they can actually crash it to zero later on. And if we're voting here in Comments too, yes, let's have the Bitcoin submissions. Hacking a currency is interesting.
- mikecane 14y agoA downvote? Should I have capitalized They? As in all those in power who do not want to see alternative currencies succeed and have therefore infiltrated it to see what They can do to stop it? Does that make it better? (Yes, I expect a downvote now here too. Que sera sera...)
- nichols 14y agoDance, monkey, dance!
- codexon 14y agoSomeone supposedly sold $10+ million worth of bitcoins. http://blockchain.info/address/1HQ3Go3ggs8pFnXuHVHRytPCq5fGG8Hbhx http://blockchain.info/address/1HQ3Go3ggs8pFnXuHVHRytPCq5fGG...
- morsch 14y agoWell, transferred. Can't even say for sure if the BTC changed owners.
- vyrotek 14y agoIn case anyone else was confused like me, you click the green button in the bottom right to covert it to dollars.
- clarkmoody 14y agoThat's probably a transaction resulting from MtGox's shuffling coins around.
- napoleoncomplex 14y agoNot that I'd wish monetary loss on anyone, but if the first Bitcoin crash is any indication, these things tend to have a positive side-benefit of driving out most of the speculators flooding in after all the news reports that fuel these cycles, and the people actually interested in the currency itself stay behind, with an influx of new folk. After all the noise dies down, new businesses and services get built backed by the wider audience, and the ecosystem develops further. It's not yet clear if this is a crash similar to the previous one, but if it comes, I don't think much will change in terms of Bitcoin's future for the next few years. (Posted this in the other thread just before it got ethered)
- BrianEatWorld 14y agoAnecdotally, I have been waiting for prices to fall because I was looking to actually use some btc starting a month ago, but because Im planning on using a tumbler, I was afraid of where the price might be in a week.
- brador 14y agoWhat is a tumbler?
- anonymoushn 14y agoIt's money laundering for btc.
- cs702 14y agoEvidently, many hoarders/speculators decided to cash out at once -- much like the audience in a movie theater would try to go through the exit door at the same time if someone were to yell "fire!" The naive souls who recently bought bitcoins to make a 'quick buck' are in for a rude surprise. In the short run, no one knows how Bitcoin's price will fluctuate. In the long run, however, if Bitcoin continues to work as intended, the more people around the world who adopt it as a store of value and/or medium of exchange, the more demand there will be for it, and with supply being fixed, growing demand will be reflected in a rising price.[1] -- [1] My full thoughts on the matter: http://cs702.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/on-the-potential-adoption-and-price-appreciation-of-bitcoin-in-the-long-run/ http://cs702.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/on-the-potential-adopt...
- Retric 14y agoAssuming that bit-coin is not passed over for a more useful digital currency at which point the network fails and the total value of all bit-coins falls to 0.
- cpressey 14y agoI wonder if the value would ever fall to precisely zero. Mightn't they still have value as a novelty or collector's item? Like, "Hey, a Bitcoin! I remember those... sure, I'll buy one, just to say I have one." It's unfortunate that you couldn't mount it in a decorative frame, though.
- eksith 14y agoBTC crashed primarily because the market suddenly got flooded by Bitcoinbillionaire : http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/bitcoin-crashes-losing-nearly-half-of-its-value-in-six-hours/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/bitcoin-crashes-losi... This bares repeating... The value of BTC is in the nature of the transaction; not the currency itself. People have turned BTC into a commodity instead of actually bloody spending it. Their old fashioned thinking still ties it to traditional fiat like a smoker trying to give up the habit. Look, I don't want anyone to lose their money, but people have to stop thinking of BTC as something that has value. What's valuable is the transaction itself, not the means of transaction. To put it another way, fiat currency is just colorful paper until it gets distributed to banks and into your hands. This original transaction and all future transactions give it value; without it, the paper means nothing. Edit: Spelling. Ironically, I wrote "bears repeating" instead "bares repeating". BTC ain't a bear market ;)
- niggler 14y agoWho is satoshi nakamoto?
- eksith 14y agoHe's the Yamaga Soko of modern digital currency. Basically wrote the book on the first plausibly practical means of exchanging currency for services and the edicts of transactions. Also, I hear he plays a mean banjo.
- what_the_frell 14y agoWho is Tyler Durden?
- MacsHeadroom 14y agoWho is John Galt?
- jcoder 14y agoYou actually had it right the first time—"bears repeating"
- 14y ago
- guard-of-terra 14y agoIf it doesn't recover today I'm buying another bitcoin tomorrow! UPD: Actually it did and now is traded >200$
- dragonwriter 14y agoFunny that the value it "recovered" to (~$200 from your post -- looks like its about $190 now) is the value that the original headline on this thread noted it crashing to from $266.
- r00fus 14y agoIt's now at $159. It was at $164 one minute ago, and $142 a minute before that. This volatility is making some people really really rich, I imagine. It's also making it very dangerous to use BTC as a way to shuttle money.
- crapshoot101 14y agoA currency set up to be deflationary and swings at 50% daily? This sounds like a great investment - I also have a slot machine I'd like to get you to invest dollars on.
- AceJohnny2 14y agoSee also: Tulip Mania in the 17th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
- lurkinggrue 14y agoThat's crazy, I have my money hedged into Beanie Babies.
- gwern 14y agoThose who read that article to the end will learn that Tulip Mania isn't much like what they think it is (summary: http://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/1bm9fl/the_bitcoin_bubble_and_the_future_of_currency/c980pcg http://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/1bm9fl/the_bitcoi... ).
- throwawayG9 14y agoThank you sillysaurus, I was about to go buy BTC at 270 to a local guy (I don't have any other way for buying bitcoin here). I forgot to check the price again, but I didn't forget to check HN ;)
- dfc 14y agoIt is not clear to me why Mt Gox did not suspend trading when the order lag reached 20 minutes and/or once the webpage began returning "Database error" messages. A lot of people are commenting that this will be remembered as the day btc crashed the second time. In my opinion a more accurate characterization would be that today is the day that Mt. Gox crashed.
- bdcravens 14y agoWhen Mt. Gox was hacked, everyone assumed they were done, and folks like TradeHill were the future of BTC exchange. Mt. Gox came back, TradeHill got out (though they recently relaunched after several months), and I'm sure that led to a feeling of bulletproofness on Mt. Gox's part.
- craigyk 14y agoHILARIOUS. Note: I think Bitcoin is a cool idea, and a cool implementation, but I've recently noticed it tends to create zealots who spew crazy whenever there is an article that questions its suitability for specific purposes (gold alternative, replace the US dollar, etc.) From what I can tell, its the same type of people I used to associate with libertarian+goldbugs+ronpaul, for whom 'fiat' is the worst four-letter word in the English language.
- uptown 14y agoA good chart on price-spikes: https://twitter.com/BarbarianCap/status/322071032934584320/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BarbarianCap/status/322071032934584320/p...
- nacho2sweet 14y agoIt's a crazy un-regulated trading market were you can get in some old fashioned market manipulation from some smart dudes and no one can do anything about it. Personally I think Tulips were prettier, but I know most of you coders like bits.
- otikik 14y agoSurprise!
- Keyframe 14y agoBasically this is watching a whole lot of people getting into FX game without even knowing they're in the FX game or even know about FX. I wonder if senior FX sharks sniffed blood and gamed bitcoin into this. My 2c says it's gamed exactly by FX pros, that's why I'm not into it.
- ThomPete 14y agoSo I am wondering. Perhaps Bitcoins volatility which seems to potentially be huge is a great win for people who study economics and bubbles? I am aware there are several difference between a crypto currency like bitcoin and the rest of the currencies out there but for a layman like me it seems like it's a perfect tool for research?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- endijs 14y agoLooks like paranoia is over. Spread returned to reasonable amount (1$) and price is steady going up - at the moment 190$. Fun day for Bitcoin holders. And someone made a lot of money today.
- bdcravens 14y agoWe can laugh at Bitcoin but real guys, in real basements, are losing real fake money right now. https://twitter.com/DavidClinchNews/status/322059732317794304 https://twitter.com/DavidClinchNews/status/32205973231779430...
- eah13 14y agoAs I've said before, daily volume is the stat to watch. There's been a huge spike in trading today: 2.3m btc on Mt Gox alone, up from 150k yesterday. If markets stay this liquid (or some multiple of their normal liquidity) it'll be a hugely positive sign. We're up to $200m+ of BTC traded on Mt Gox today, and that's a huge fraction of the total value of bitcoin (~$1b). Great sign if volume stays high from here on: the volatility should be dampened quite a bit. http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
- andreash 14y agoAll I can think about is this image, that my macroeconomics professor showed to me : http://goo.gl/zBkCr http://goo.gl/zBkCr
- mathattack 14y agoHere is the thing I can't get around... If Bitcoin is open source, what's stopping someone from setting up a competing currency? Perhaps it could have the promise of a more optimal growth mechanism over time, or some other feature. Once it's in use, the value of Bitcoin drops quickly, no? And what if there are many Bitcoin-like currencies?
- tyw 14y agoThere are. Probably the #2 most popular coin is 'litecoin' (http://litecoin.org/ http://litecoin.org/). It uses scrypt instead of sha256 in order for it to be harder/more expensive to use GPU clusters and FPGA/ASIC hardware to mine them. Mining using GPU is still somewhat quicker/more efficient than CPU, but the delta is much less than exists for bitcoin. There are other coins as well, but I'm less familiar with them.
- codeulike 14y agoBecause a currency is basically a _convention_ within a _community_. Bitcoin has a _community_, whereas an arbitrarily cryptocurrency launched next week probably wont have, unless a lot of groundwork is done first.
- mathattack 14y agoRight, but it can be done so perpetual scarcity is a fallacy, no?
- chii 14y agono - if you started your own 'bitcoin' chainblock, the existing bitcoin chainblock shouldn't (as far as i understand it) be interoperable. That is, its like printing your own currency - no one else will reckonize it, unless you somehow own vast amounts of resources, and is willing to exchange that with the new bitcoin.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- michaelochurch 14y agoCalled it (sort of): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5522100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5522100 Actually, I have no idea whether there's any causality, and I certainly would not have predicted the effects to be felt today, as opposed to months later when a more mature margin system came into place.
- xoail 14y agoWell looks like it tried to come back (I saw it touch $200) but the media and twitter picked up its fall and started the panic more than ever. Right now at $140.
- eric970 14y agoI'm sure it's been stated already... And well, I'm no Bitcoin fanboy, but didn't the price just go back up to what it was 2 days ago? That hardly sounds like a "crash" to me.
- MacsHeadroom 14y ago>didn't the price just go back up to what it was 2 days ago? That hardly sounds like a "crash" to me. Every fucking time. Oh look, Bitcoins are worth what they were two or three days ago. "BITCOIN CRASHED!" Jesus people, really?
- jgon 14y agoThis is amazing timing because I received a text message from my mother roughly 3 hours ago wondering if I mine bitcoin and if it is something she should look into. If you ever wanted evidence that this was a bubble driven by speculation look no further than how closely it resembles the dotcom bubble, right up to Joe and Jane Mainstreet looking to get involved right as the whole thing crashes down.
- delsarto 14y agoI signed up for mt.gox about a week ago, at that time the verification queue was >10,000 and I'm still about 5000 now. My plan was to buy one bitcoin to gamble with; presumably that was the plan of the several thousand others in the queue as well. So, based on that, with something like 1000 new verified (hence able to easily trade) people coming into mt.gox a day, I'd expect this to go on for a while...
- biturd 14y agoI know very little about BTC. I have a few grand and would like to but some at around 100.00 each in hopes of doubling and cashing out. Is there a good step by step for beginners? I'm not worried about secrecy and track ability, more ease of use, being able to do this all from the comfort if my computer without trips to Walgreens or doing wire transfers. J have no intention of buying anything other than perhaps donations to reddit and Wordpress.
- Siecje 14y agoTo buy a bitcoin you need to buy it from someone? Does that mean a miner can only 'create' a bitcoin (or partial bitcoin) when there is a transaction. So how did it start in the beginning? Someone would have had to be able to create bitcoins.
- cjg 14y agoYou get new bitcoins by creating a new block in the block chain (mining). If there are no other transactions in the block that's fine. The first block is known as the Genesis block. You might find this useful: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block
- fixxer 14y agoThe CME (and other futures exchanges) avoid "DDOS"-like situations (basically, I'm talking about hyperactive algos taking up too much bandwidth) by penalizing them monetarily when they go over a limit. The penalties are large. The same could be applied to Bitcoin exchanges and would definitely improve performance. I'm not a buyer of cryptocurrencies, but if you're discounting the concept because of these events, your not considering the system's potential to evolve beyond them.
- supervillain 14y agoI predict that Bitcoin will be banned in the U.S. before it would be adopted by any countries.
- programminggeek 14y agoSomeone is making out like a bandit on this deal.
- PhilandTim 14y agoI'm not sure what's more upsetting, the fact that so many people are careless enough to create speculative positions in such an unconventional and abstract financial product on short notice, or that despite all the media hype over Bitcoins recently and what should've been foresight that this would happen, that I didn't try to catch the wave up myself.
- Xanza 14y agoI don't understand how anyone would purchase Bitcoin 'to make a quick buck' when it was running at an all-time high. Good way to run up a deficit.
- DigitalSea 14y agoThis sudden drop sounds like an intentional attack on Bitcoin to lower the price. I have heard stories of hackers trying to sabotage the price of Bitcoin by forcing the price lower and then buying a whole heap of Bitcoin, sounds like one of those attacks finally worked. Looks like all of the Bitcoin publicity from the likes of Business Week and The New York Times has attracted some good old fashioned currency manipulators who want a piece of the pie. Although there is no evidence to suggest this isn't an old fashioned bank-run, there appears to be quite a few reports of mining pools being attacked as well. Something is definitely going on here, but overall it won't stop the remarkable progress Bitcoin has made this year so far.
- nikcub 14y agoSold everything I had yesterday at ~$240 https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/321751009598791682 https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/321751009598791682 I was buying and selling BitCoins with a very simple theory. Each time the currency would rally I would check the stories on Google News and check the graph on Google Trends[1]. Other price peaks would correspond with a peak on the trends graph[2], a new peak in new stories (with more stories in more general media publications), and more traffic to the sites that are the top results for "BitCoin" (using Compete etc.) The peak yesterday had no new interest driving it, and no new buyers coming in. It was clear what was going to happen next. Previous price peaks would drive new news stories which would drive the next peak. Yesterday I logged into News and Trends and found the trends level at its lowest in 30+ days and no new large items in news and sold. [1] https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/319427166817357824 https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/319427166817357824 [2] https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/315680085468405760 https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/315680085468405760
- wamatt 14y ago..and this is probably going to look foolish when it goes to $1000 later this year. Your actions looks like someone trying to pat themselves on the back and reassure the "right decision". I wish online P2P wagers were legal in the US :) I was watching everything during the "crash". It's already back up to 170 in a few hours. Previous crash took months to recover. I've been around the block and the same tired and worn arguments were being used at $10 then $20 and $100.
- mkr-hn 14y agoYou sound like every person who believed in the non-bubbleness of every bubble. What justifies the price of Bitcoins? They have no real value before they're widely accepted, and that won't happen until the price is stable.
- cjg 14y ago"Widely accepted" isn't a binary value. As adoption increases bitcoins gain value. That's what justifies the price. The problem is deciding just how much adoption implies how much value.
- mikkom 14y agoIf I read that chart correctly, price fluctuated from 266 to ~100 during one day?!?!? That tells a bit about the correlation of volume and volatility.
- akrymski 14y agoI'm afraid bitcoin will always be too volatile to be used as a currency because it's not backed by anything, and can't be inflated/deflated. The government actually serves a useful function by controlling money in circulation, even though it's not backed by gold anymore, at least it's stable (as long as inflation rates are maintained) which allows it to be used as currency. Sure everyone complains that USD is being printed, but at least that gets people spending - using the currency, instead of hoarding/saving which is what's happening with BTC. At current levels of volatility, merchants will abandon the currency. Perhaps there's a some theoretical solution out there, whereby the inflation rate of BTC is a function of volatility ... ?