6 ms·

North Korea declares war on South Korea - full declaration

57 points by richardjordan 14y ago

richardjordan 14y ago
So I think this situation merits some attention. While I am sure it's mostly bluster, it's still a rather disturbing escalation of rhetoric from an unpredictable and dangerous regime, unlikely to be the most reliable of rational actors in times of high tension. In case Reuters is down again - the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127
bayesianhorse 14y ago
The unfunny thing about this is that North Korea is virtually declaring war, and South Korea and its allies have to ignore it because of very valid threats. In any open conflict, thousands of South Koreans in Seoul would die within hours because of artillery on the border. Any war activity in North Korea, together with weaker border enforcement would send hundreds of thousands of Fugitives north and south. In a lot of ways, Kim can afford the provocation more than every one else can afford to take the bluff.
- richardjordan 14y ago
  Right. This is one of the realities a lot of people unfamiliar with the geography of Korea fail to understand. The North has just a ton of rockets pointed at, and within range of, Seoul. The North declares war and we are all forced to treat it as a joke because taking it seriously and actually letting the hot war start would be devastating. This is China's mess. China really needs to step in here and do something. It's fence-sat with the North for too long. It has understandable concerns about North Korean refugees flooding across its borders, but its tolerance of bad behavior and resistance to taking stronger action to influence it's unruly charge is leading to it losing face at best, and at worse being seen as contributing to a needless conflict with great loss of life should it occur.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    What can China do? Damned if they do and damned if they don't. China doesn't want war, but they don't want change either. They don't want DPRK to implode, they like the status quo as it is. They don't want refugees flooding in to Liaoning, and they don't want the Americans to cross that parallel in any case. But if war comes, the PLA might just strike first across the Yalu and end it quickly. The DPRK is extremely aware of this, it makes them more weary to start anything because they have no real friends. Do not think for a second that China has some sort of dictator that can decide what side of the fence they want to be on. You have a lot of diversity in thought on what to do about the DPRK in the PRC. Many of them still don't trust the US, and its more important to check us than to preserve trade relationships.
    - kapnobatairza 14y ago
      China doesn't want war. Period. I don't think you realize how many affluent Chinese tourists there are in Seoul. The moment China lets North Korea cross the DMZ is the moment China invades North Korea themselves and installs some new puppet regime. I don't think you understand what kind of uproar would occur in China should any Chinese casualties occur because of North Korea's antics.
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        > I don't think you realize how many affluent Chinese tourists there are in Seoul. The PRC government could give a shit about a few tourists. Its more about the trade relations they have with the ROK (and PSY is really popular here). > The moment China lets North Korea cross the DMZ is the moment China invades North Korea themselves and installs some new puppet regime. Reread my post, this is exactly what I said. If you didn't know, the Yalu river forms the border between Liaoning and DPRK. > I don't think you understand what kind of uproar would occur in China should any Chinese casualties occur because of North Korea's antics. Now that is a weird statement to make. First of all, they are more concerned with trade relations, think of all the PRC citizens that will starve to death if the export factories have to close down because the PRC is in it bad with the US?
- chongli 14y ago
  >hundreds of thousands of Fugitives Damn. Somebody better call the US Marshals!
espinchi 14y ago
The word "nuclear" appears 9 times in the text. This is scary.
- richardjordan 14y ago
  Right. Nuclear in the context of regime with a history of irrational behavior that's been insulated from the consequences of its actions for so long it may actually believe some of the nonsense its official communications machinery puts out.
  - coldtea 14y ago
    >Nuclear in the context of regime with a history of irrational behavior that's been insulated from the consequences of its actions for so long it may actually believe some of the nonsense its official communications machinery puts out. Funny how all this could also translate directly to the US.
    - hippobravo 14y ago
      Only the powerless public. The guys at the top seem to behave very rationally in their looting of the country.
- viraptor 14y ago
  This is pure speculation, but I'd be very surprised if US and South Korea didn't have a secret joint plan of disabling all possible locations of N.K.'s nuclear weapons in a minimal time. This wouldn't help Seoul itself in any way of course. But there have to be some national and military plans prepared for such situation for years...
- bayesianhorse 14y ago
  North Korea doesn't have a way to deliver the nuclear bomb beyond its borders. It's hardly even conceivable they could smuggle one abroad by more pedestrian means like cargo ships...
  - 14y ago
deleted 14y ago
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hp50g 14y ago
I don't know why they even think they'd get away with this. All strategic targets will be flattened in 30 minutes flat and the rest of the country will just starve to death or die from the fallout. I assume they know this will happen? I genuinely feel sorry for the people on both sides Of this conflict as they're all going to suffer if it kicks off. If the international community gets involved as well, its going to drag out even longer than Afghanistan or Iraq. Its ugly whatever happens.
- jeswin 14y ago
  They have a better chance of getting away with this than anyone else has had in recent past. - The North Korean military is a serious conventional force. - Their army is considered to be highly motivated, given the years of indoctrination and virtually no access to a real news channel. They will probably fight to death. - They have an over-sized, capable special ops team. - Nukes. It may or may not work well, but the rest of the world can't take this chance. We (rest of the world) are also just guessing how many they have. - Seoul is within range of artillery fire. Also will be the first thing to get flattened. About 24 million people live in and around it. - I doubt if their strategic targets will be sitting ducks for aerial bombing. Given that war and military is the only thing that country thinks about. So yeah, the truth is that the rest of the world is just very scared. South Korean defense personnel have been repeated targeted in recent years; and nothing could be done. :(
  - weavejester 14y ago
    It takes a lot of artillery to flattern a city, and the DPRK doesn't have that many guns that can reach that far, or many artillery positions within 55km of Seoul. While they also probably have nuclear weapons, it's unlikely they have any means of delivering them yet. The DPRK could potentially cause a lot of damage to civilians, but they cannot win an offensive war. The question is whether they're crazy enough to try.
donpark 14y ago
Unfortunately, there is nothing further South Korea can do until North Korea actually launches a full attack. Seoul can't be moved. South Korea can't attack preemptively unless North appears to be preparing a nuclear launch. Death in tens of thousands within first three days of war is expected and accepted. Horrible, yes. But years of threats have tempered reactions and people must go on with their lives. Chances are NK will launch a restrained attack on one of the islands near border, inviting a response which I'm told will be measured yet quite strong. What they want is a stage to put on a display of thuggery because all they're getting is a busy signal, ruining their Gangbook style. Anyway, IMO and all that.
uvdiv 14y ago
Here's the Korean version, in case the North Korean website goes down, or for South Koreans whose country is blocking it: (apologies if I've damaged the formatting) https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5276280/raw/4ce722bf2f5cc4ad677752db62c2341bf2d5adac/gistfile1.txt https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5276280/raw/4ce722bf2f5cc4... The English version seems to be a North Korean translation. The KCNA site published it in 5 languages. It's on page 2 of the main list of articles (page NaN actually, but it's second in navigation). No copyright infringement intended.
claudius 14y ago
And yet the World Food Programme continues shipping food and other basic supplies to North Korea to avoid further famines. Surely such famines would not be particularly nice, but on the other hand, recent events in the Middle East have demonstrated yet again that no government can establish itself permanently without the support of its people; hence rendering the North Korean people responsible for these nuclear threats just as much as their government.
- EliRivers 14y ago
  Have you been there? It seems a stretch to hold people responsible for the actions of their government when they are born and die in the same village, need permission to leave that village (and "wanting to go on a trip" doesn't count), have no way to communicate with anyone outside the village, have effectively no way to influence their government whatsoever, and the only source of information they have is the official government version of everything. You have as much influence over the DPRK government as they do.
  - claudius 14y ago
    Lack of freedom is maybe a reason to reject responsibility for one’s own society, but neither a justification nor an excuse. Being allowed to reject such responsibility on the basis of a lack of freedom would make it too easy for the general public to blame a select few for crimes committed by the state whilst enjoying their results just as well.
    - EliRivers 14y ago
      Lack of freedom is maybe a reason to reject responsibility for one’s own society, but neither a justification nor an excuse. They're not rejecting responsibility. It's not as if they used to be fully in control and one day decided that they'd have a go instead at being prisoners of the state, utterly powerless, to see how that went. Nobody allowed them to reject responsibility. Being allowed to reject such responsibility on the basis of a lack of freedom would make it too easy for the general public to blame a select few for crimes Are you serious? You want to hold people responsible for something they didn't do and had absolutely no control over? If that's how it is, then YOU are also to be held responsible.
kapnobatairza 14y ago
Just so I can defuse lots of the commentary that always comes up whenever North Korea is mentioned: 1) Most of NK's artillery is not in range of Seoul, the few that are in range of Seoul are in range of the northern part of Greater Seoul (essentially suburbs), which are nowhere near as populated as Seoul proper. NK has a very small amount mobile artillery which could be repositioned, but US/SK artillery and reconnaissance will be able to hit mobile artillery attempted to move within range of Seoul before it can get close enough to do any damage. Our missiles go further, hit harder, hit more accurately, than theirs do. 2) North Korea will not engage in a mainland war before receiving authorization or warning China, at which point Chinese tourists will be recalled from Seoul and Jeju. China will not allow North Korea to threaten the affluent Chinese tourists that frequent those area, and should North Korea attempt to do so it will be facing an invasion from the Chinese border, and most likely Russian border. 3) North Korea will likely try to hit a few small islands as part of their saber rattling in order to receive aid and will not escalate any further without North Korea losing everything in a matter of moments. 4) I'm in South Korea right now (Seoul actually) and I can tell you there is no tension in the air over this issue on the part of Koreans. 5) North Korea has no way to remotely deliver a nuclear device. The only countries that have developed miniturized nukes that the North Koreans could "carry" into the country are the US, Soviet Union, and possibly Israel. They have no "suitcase nuke" nor the technology to develop one. The only way they could "nuke" Seoul is if they build one within Seoul.
- EliRivers 14y ago
  You have a great deal of faith in China's ability to control the DPRK. Given that China is now part of the international community behind the latest sanctions (which this action is at least partly a response to), why do you think the DPRK leadership will require Beijing's approval for their actions? Have you visited the North? When I was there last year the Juche philosophy was as much a part of everyone as the casual references to the Great Leader being the Sun of the World; the attitude amongst the people I spoke to was that China was, whilst a friendly neighbour, not necessary to the wellbeing of the DPRK (no comment on how true that actually is - just on what I gathered of people's attitudes). As it is, I do agree this is just more sabre-rattling and it is to be taken as seriously as all the previous sabre-rattling. The real announcement of continuing the war will be troop movements and the like, which will be very easily seen in advance.
goldfeld 14y ago
It's interesting how every other story on HN's frontpage right now seems to dwarf in relevance, compared to this. The full weight of a declaration of war simply stated like this stopped me in my tracks. And coming from a completely unpredictable and strongly armed regime, it's the stuff of legend, and a sorry situation that the world has to see it become real. I hope South Korea has a plan to minimize civilian casualties, if it comes to that, and I wish the people didn't have to go through this; not the tension, much less actual damage. South Korea is a modern country full of technology, in those ways a peer to the US and other first world countries. Which makes it even easier to put yourself in the south koreans' shoes. Gives you some perspective.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Nobody is taking this seriously in the press. The DPRK says crap like this all the time, its hard to tell if they are serious this time; it seems like they probably aren't. Now that could change as we get more information, but for now...its just the same-old-same-old. But us expats who live relatively near the DPRK (in the PRC or ROK) will always pay attention to stuff like this.
  - goldfeld 14y ago
    Well, if it is as you say, in a way it worries me more. Maybe they have declared all-out war in these terms before, I wouldn't know. In any case, if it isn't this time, for how long more? If nobody takes them seriously, the defenses will be lowered when they finally strike. I have little doubt NK is a country which could put all to risk because of it's dictator's crazy whims. It's a high risk the world is taking by dismissing it.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      Everyone takes them seriously, just no one pays attention to what they say anymore, which is basically not useful information. We can only go by what they actually do.
deleted 14y ago
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fakeer 14y ago
Is the war declaration as in actually a war where North Korea has already started firing guns, shells, rockets, charging with bayonets or whatever; or this is just a declaration "declaration" of war against South Korea? Because this: >>From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war .... speaks of the latter it seems.
awaechter 14y ago
There is something I don't get in this move. What's the purpose of Kim Yung-un? Is he mad enough to believe he can underdog the rest of the world with his dilapidated army? Does he believe that China will support him vs South Korea allies even if he launches an attack? Is it just a means to make the media of the rest of the world focus on him? Why? Does he want to be in position to negotiate an opening and say to his people: look and they are afraid of us and ready to talk? I rather believe in the latter option. Otherwise the only solution is to send him a sniper with a syringe of antipsychotics to pacify him.
TeMPOraL 14y ago
Serious question, because everyone seems to be talking about how NK doesn't have means to deliver a nuclear device over to SK. If they can hit Seoul with conventional weapons, why couldn't they retrofit some of that tech to carry a nuclear bomb?
- j4_james 14y ago
  From an article on NPR (http://www.npr.org/2013/01/28/170473476/north-koreas-rhetoric-and-capabilities http://www.npr.org/2013/01/28/170473476/north-koreas-rhetori...): "The toughest technology in the nuclear world is to shrink a nuclear weapon down to something that is light enough to fit on a warhead and that can detonate at the right place and so forth."
csense 14y ago
Why doesn't Russia make a devil's deal with China to backstab NK, launch a surprise attack, and carve up the territory between them? With some nebulous hand-waving about their rhetoric leading to "global nuclear destabilization" or somesuch (even if it's clear from the lack of troop movements that the rhetoric is just rhetoric). They wouldn't have to deal with a popular rebellion in Iraq/Afghanistan, just send the people a little bit of food and start modernizing the countryside and they will be hailed as liberators. Best to do it now, before they have to deal with another nuke club member in their backyard that's a total wild card... And if Seoul gets demolished, South Korea isn't their ally, so that's Somebody Else's Problem.

57 points by richardjordan 14y ago

So I think this situation merits some attention. While I am sure it's mostly bluster, it's still a rather disturbing escalation of rhetoric from an unpredictable and dangerous regime, unlikely to be the most reliable of rational actors in times of high tension. In case Reuters is down again - the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127

bayesianhorse 14y ago

The unfunny thing about this is that North Korea is virtually declaring war, and South Korea and its allies have to ignore it because of very valid threats. In any open conflict, thousands of South Koreans in Seoul would die within hours because of artillery on the border. Any war activity in North Korea, together with weaker border enforcement would send hundreds of thousands of Fugitives north and south. In a lot of ways, Kim can afford the provocation more than every one else can afford to take the bluff.

richardjordan 14y ago
Right. This is one of the realities a lot of people unfamiliar with the geography of Korea fail to understand. The North has just a ton of rockets pointed at, and within range of, Seoul. The North declares war and we are all forced to treat it as a joke because taking it seriously and actually letting the hot war start would be devastating. This is China's mess. China really needs to step in here and do something. It's fence-sat with the North for too long. It has understandable concerns about North Korean refugees flooding across its borders, but its tolerance of bad behavior and resistance to taking stronger action to influence it's unruly charge is leading to it losing face at best, and at worse being seen as contributing to a needless conflict with great loss of life should it occur.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  What can China do? Damned if they do and damned if they don't. China doesn't want war, but they don't want change either. They don't want DPRK to implode, they like the status quo as it is. They don't want refugees flooding in to Liaoning, and they don't want the Americans to cross that parallel in any case. But if war comes, the PLA might just strike first across the Yalu and end it quickly. The DPRK is extremely aware of this, it makes them more weary to start anything because they have no real friends. Do not think for a second that China has some sort of dictator that can decide what side of the fence they want to be on. You have a lot of diversity in thought on what to do about the DPRK in the PRC. Many of them still don't trust the US, and its more important to check us than to preserve trade relationships.
  - kapnobatairza 14y ago
    China doesn't want war. Period. I don't think you realize how many affluent Chinese tourists there are in Seoul. The moment China lets North Korea cross the DMZ is the moment China invades North Korea themselves and installs some new puppet regime. I don't think you understand what kind of uproar would occur in China should any Chinese casualties occur because of North Korea's antics.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      > I don't think you realize how many affluent Chinese tourists there are in Seoul. The PRC government could give a shit about a few tourists. Its more about the trade relations they have with the ROK (and PSY is really popular here). > The moment China lets North Korea cross the DMZ is the moment China invades North Korea themselves and installs some new puppet regime. Reread my post, this is exactly what I said. If you didn't know, the Yalu river forms the border between Liaoning and DPRK. > I don't think you understand what kind of uproar would occur in China should any Chinese casualties occur because of North Korea's antics. Now that is a weird statement to make. First of all, they are more concerned with trade relations, think of all the PRC citizens that will starve to death if the export factories have to close down because the PRC is in it bad with the US?
chongli 14y ago
>hundreds of thousands of Fugitives Damn. Somebody better call the US Marshals!

espinchi 14y ago

The word "nuclear" appears 9 times in the text. This is scary.

richardjordan 14y ago
Right. Nuclear in the context of regime with a history of irrational behavior that's been insulated from the consequences of its actions for so long it may actually believe some of the nonsense its official communications machinery puts out.
- coldtea 14y ago
  >Nuclear in the context of regime with a history of irrational behavior that's been insulated from the consequences of its actions for so long it may actually believe some of the nonsense its official communications machinery puts out. Funny how all this could also translate directly to the US.
  - hippobravo 14y ago
    Only the powerless public. The guys at the top seem to behave very rationally in their looting of the country.
viraptor 14y ago
This is pure speculation, but I'd be very surprised if US and South Korea didn't have a secret joint plan of disabling all possible locations of N.K.'s nuclear weapons in a minimal time. This wouldn't help Seoul itself in any way of course. But there have to be some national and military plans prepared for such situation for years...
bayesianhorse 14y ago
North Korea doesn't have a way to deliver the nuclear bomb beyond its borders. It's hardly even conceivable they could smuggle one abroad by more pedestrian means like cargo ships...
- 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

hp50g 14y ago

I don't know why they even think they'd get away with this. All strategic targets will be flattened in 30 minutes flat and the rest of the country will just starve to death or die from the fallout. I assume they know this will happen? I genuinely feel sorry for the people on both sides Of this conflict as they're all going to suffer if it kicks off. If the international community gets involved as well, its going to drag out even longer than Afghanistan or Iraq. Its ugly whatever happens.

jeswin 14y ago
They have a better chance of getting away with this than anyone else has had in recent past. - The North Korean military is a serious conventional force. - Their army is considered to be highly motivated, given the years of indoctrination and virtually no access to a real news channel. They will probably fight to death. - They have an over-sized, capable special ops team. - Nukes. It may or may not work well, but the rest of the world can't take this chance. We (rest of the world) are also just guessing how many they have. - Seoul is within range of artillery fire. Also will be the first thing to get flattened. About 24 million people live in and around it. - I doubt if their strategic targets will be sitting ducks for aerial bombing. Given that war and military is the only thing that country thinks about. So yeah, the truth is that the rest of the world is just very scared. South Korean defense personnel have been repeated targeted in recent years; and nothing could be done. :(
- weavejester 14y ago
  It takes a lot of artillery to flattern a city, and the DPRK doesn't have that many guns that can reach that far, or many artillery positions within 55km of Seoul. While they also probably have nuclear weapons, it's unlikely they have any means of delivering them yet. The DPRK could potentially cause a lot of damage to civilians, but they cannot win an offensive war. The question is whether they're crazy enough to try.

donpark 14y ago

Unfortunately, there is nothing further South Korea can do until North Korea actually launches a full attack. Seoul can't be moved. South Korea can't attack preemptively unless North appears to be preparing a nuclear launch. Death in tens of thousands within first three days of war is expected and accepted. Horrible, yes. But years of threats have tempered reactions and people must go on with their lives. Chances are NK will launch a restrained attack on one of the islands near border, inviting a response which I'm told will be measured yet quite strong. What they want is a stage to put on a display of thuggery because all they're getting is a busy signal, ruining their Gangbook style. Anyway, IMO and all that.

uvdiv 14y ago

Here's the Korean version, in case the North Korean website goes down, or for South Koreans whose country is blocking it: (apologies if I've damaged the formatting) https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5276280/raw/4ce722bf2f5cc4ad677752db62c2341bf2d5adac/gistfile1.txt https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5276280/raw/4ce722bf2f5cc4... The English version seems to be a North Korean translation. The KCNA site published it in 5 languages. It's on page 2 of the main list of articles (page NaN actually, but it's second in navigation). No copyright infringement intended.

claudius 14y ago

And yet the World Food Programme continues shipping food and other basic supplies to North Korea to avoid further famines. Surely such famines would not be particularly nice, but on the other hand, recent events in the Middle East have demonstrated yet again that no government can establish itself permanently without the support of its people; hence rendering the North Korean people responsible for these nuclear threats just as much as their government.

EliRivers 14y ago
Have you been there? It seems a stretch to hold people responsible for the actions of their government when they are born and die in the same village, need permission to leave that village (and "wanting to go on a trip" doesn't count), have no way to communicate with anyone outside the village, have effectively no way to influence their government whatsoever, and the only source of information they have is the official government version of everything. You have as much influence over the DPRK government as they do.
- claudius 14y ago
  Lack of freedom is maybe a reason to reject responsibility for one’s own society, but neither a justification nor an excuse. Being allowed to reject such responsibility on the basis of a lack of freedom would make it too easy for the general public to blame a select few for crimes committed by the state whilst enjoying their results just as well.
  - EliRivers 14y ago
    Lack of freedom is maybe a reason to reject responsibility for one’s own society, but neither a justification nor an excuse. They're not rejecting responsibility. It's not as if they used to be fully in control and one day decided that they'd have a go instead at being prisoners of the state, utterly powerless, to see how that went. Nobody allowed them to reject responsibility. Being allowed to reject such responsibility on the basis of a lack of freedom would make it too easy for the general public to blame a select few for crimes Are you serious? You want to hold people responsible for something they didn't do and had absolutely no control over? If that's how it is, then YOU are also to be held responsible.

kapnobatairza 14y ago

Just so I can defuse lots of the commentary that always comes up whenever North Korea is mentioned: 1) Most of NK's artillery is not in range of Seoul, the few that are in range of Seoul are in range of the northern part of Greater Seoul (essentially suburbs), which are nowhere near as populated as Seoul proper. NK has a very small amount mobile artillery which could be repositioned, but US/SK artillery and reconnaissance will be able to hit mobile artillery attempted to move within range of Seoul before it can get close enough to do any damage. Our missiles go further, hit harder, hit more accurately, than theirs do. 2) North Korea will not engage in a mainland war before receiving authorization or warning China, at which point Chinese tourists will be recalled from Seoul and Jeju. China will not allow North Korea to threaten the affluent Chinese tourists that frequent those area, and should North Korea attempt to do so it will be facing an invasion from the Chinese border, and most likely Russian border. 3) North Korea will likely try to hit a few small islands as part of their saber rattling in order to receive aid and will not escalate any further without North Korea losing everything in a matter of moments. 4) I'm in South Korea right now (Seoul actually) and I can tell you there is no tension in the air over this issue on the part of Koreans. 5) North Korea has no way to remotely deliver a nuclear device. The only countries that have developed miniturized nukes that the North Koreans could "carry" into the country are the US, Soviet Union, and possibly Israel. They have no "suitcase nuke" nor the technology to develop one. The only way they could "nuke" Seoul is if they build one within Seoul.

EliRivers 14y ago
You have a great deal of faith in China's ability to control the DPRK. Given that China is now part of the international community behind the latest sanctions (which this action is at least partly a response to), why do you think the DPRK leadership will require Beijing's approval for their actions? Have you visited the North? When I was there last year the Juche philosophy was as much a part of everyone as the casual references to the Great Leader being the Sun of the World; the attitude amongst the people I spoke to was that China was, whilst a friendly neighbour, not necessary to the wellbeing of the DPRK (no comment on how true that actually is - just on what I gathered of people's attitudes). As it is, I do agree this is just more sabre-rattling and it is to be taken as seriously as all the previous sabre-rattling. The real announcement of continuing the war will be troop movements and the like, which will be very easily seen in advance.

goldfeld 14y ago

It's interesting how every other story on HN's frontpage right now seems to dwarf in relevance, compared to this. The full weight of a declaration of war simply stated like this stopped me in my tracks. And coming from a completely unpredictable and strongly armed regime, it's the stuff of legend, and a sorry situation that the world has to see it become real. I hope South Korea has a plan to minimize civilian casualties, if it comes to that, and I wish the people didn't have to go through this; not the tension, much less actual damage. South Korea is a modern country full of technology, in those ways a peer to the US and other first world countries. Which makes it even easier to put yourself in the south koreans' shoes. Gives you some perspective.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Nobody is taking this seriously in the press. The DPRK says crap like this all the time, its hard to tell if they are serious this time; it seems like they probably aren't. Now that could change as we get more information, but for now...its just the same-old-same-old. But us expats who live relatively near the DPRK (in the PRC or ROK) will always pay attention to stuff like this.
- goldfeld 14y ago
  Well, if it is as you say, in a way it worries me more. Maybe they have declared all-out war in these terms before, I wouldn't know. In any case, if it isn't this time, for how long more? If nobody takes them seriously, the defenses will be lowered when they finally strike. I have little doubt NK is a country which could put all to risk because of it's dictator's crazy whims. It's a high risk the world is taking by dismissing it.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Everyone takes them seriously, just no one pays attention to what they say anymore, which is basically not useful information. We can only go by what they actually do.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

fakeer 14y ago

Is the war declaration as in actually a war where North Korea has already started firing guns, shells, rockets, charging with bayonets or whatever; or this is just a declaration "declaration" of war against South Korea? Because this: >>From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war .... speaks of the latter it seems.

awaechter 14y ago

There is something I don't get in this move. What's the purpose of Kim Yung-un? Is he mad enough to believe he can underdog the rest of the world with his dilapidated army? Does he believe that China will support him vs South Korea allies even if he launches an attack? Is it just a means to make the media of the rest of the world focus on him? Why? Does he want to be in position to negotiate an opening and say to his people: look and they are afraid of us and ready to talk? I rather believe in the latter option. Otherwise the only solution is to send him a sniper with a syringe of antipsychotics to pacify him.

TeMPOraL 14y ago

Serious question, because everyone seems to be talking about how NK doesn't have means to deliver a nuclear device over to SK. If they can hit Seoul with conventional weapons, why couldn't they retrofit some of that tech to carry a nuclear bomb?

j4_james 14y ago
From an article on NPR (http://www.npr.org/2013/01/28/170473476/north-koreas-rhetoric-and-capabilities http://www.npr.org/2013/01/28/170473476/north-koreas-rhetori...): "The toughest technology in the nuclear world is to shrink a nuclear weapon down to something that is light enough to fit on a warhead and that can detonate at the right place and so forth."

csense 14y ago

Why doesn't Russia make a devil's deal with China to backstab NK, launch a surprise attack, and carve up the territory between them? With some nebulous hand-waving about their rhetoric leading to "global nuclear destabilization" or somesuch (even if it's clear from the lack of troop movements that the rhetoric is just rhetoric). They wouldn't have to deal with a popular rebellion in Iraq/Afghanistan, just send the people a little bit of food and start modernizing the countryside and they will be hailed as liberators. Best to do it now, before they have to deal with another nuke club member in their backyard that's a total wild card... And if Seoul gets demolished, South Korea isn't their ally, so that's Somebody Else's Problem.