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> "We also weren't sure if we would be able hire top talent if we chose Go, but we soon found out that we could get top talent because we chose Go." I feel[1]

> "We also weren't sure if we would be able hire top talent if we chose Go, but we soon found out that we could get top talent because we chose Go." I feel[1] that a smart/talented C/C++/anything developer can go from someone who has never seen or heard of golang to a proficient and productive Go developer in a matter of a few weeks, maybe even _days_, if not less. That's how long it takes to go through the following materials (and fav some for later reference) and play with the language a bit. http://golang.org/ref/spec http://golang.org/ref/spec http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytEkHepK08c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytEkHepK08c http://commandcenter.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/less-is-exponentially-more.html http://commandcenter.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/less-is-exponen... http://tour.golang.org/ http://tour.golang.org/ http://golang.org/doc/install http://golang.org/doc/install http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCsL89YtqCs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCsL89YtqCs http://golang.org/doc/code.html http://golang.org/doc/code.html http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html http://golang.org/pkg/ http://golang.org/pkg/ - use as reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6kdp27TYZs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6kdp27TYZs http://talks.golang.org/2012/splash.article http://talks.golang.org/2012/splash.article https://gobyexample.com/ https://gobyexample.com/ http://golang-examples.tumblr.com/ http://golang-examples.tumblr.com/ And a some more similar things that you can mostly get to from golang.org site. The beauty of how concise the language and even its website are, is that you can literally just go through everything there one thing after another. [1] This is my personal opinion based on playing with go the last few weeks/months. I'd love to verify this theory. It's not yet the primary language in which I do things in (I use C++11 atm), but for all my side tasks[2] it proved to be indispensable. And I found it very easy to pick up. I can't wait until I start doing all my work in Go, that will be a true test of its productivity efficiency. [2] https://gist.github.com/shurcooL https://gist.github.com/shurcooL

TillE 14y ago
It's quite strange to me that people would identify as or look for a "[language] programmer". Sure, I happen to write more C++, Python, and C than anything else, but I've dabbled in just about everything and could reach comfortable proficiency in a matter of weeks. Most of programming and all of computer science is universal. Any serious programmer should be a polyglot by default.
- shurcooL 14y ago
  I completely agree. I think to completely explain this phenomena, one would have to make references to people's skill levels, and it's hard to explain it in a few words. So I'll just not say anything at all on this subject beyond that.
- memset 14y ago
  I agree with the premise that, as a professional software engineer, it is my responsibility to be a polyglot. As for myself, when I started writing Python, I mainly wrote C or Java code in Python - in a similar way, perhaps, how early C programs were littered with __asm__() constructs. It took a long time to learn how to write things in (though I hate the term) a "pythonic" way. That is, to learn the common language idioms that are not taught in any tutorial, or are part of pep8, which illustrate common patterns in Python code, the ins-and-outs of PYTHONPATH, etc etc. So while I agree that, in a weekend, a reasonably proficient programmer can pick up reasonable proficiency in a given language, being a "Python Programmer" to me means that one has developed an intuition for the common patterns, libraries, pitfalls, platforms, and clever specific features of a given language and its ecosystem.
  - cpprototypes 14y ago
    I agree, but I think the age of the language and community is another factor. Java, Python, C++, these are all old languages with decades of history and habits. Newer things like Node.js and Go have no history, no baggage to learn or avoid. I think starting in something with such a clean slate is somewhat easier because there is less ecosystem to learn.
    - laumars 14y ago
      This has been my experience learning Go as well.
    - qznc 14y ago
      I once heard a quote like this "programming languages are frozen knowledge about software engineering". (Anybody got a clue who said something like this?) New languages usually improve upon older languages by making certain errors impossible by design. For example, Go allows pointers, but not pointer arithmetic. With C we learned pointer arithmetic is often harmful (though sometimes necessary), so Java removed pointers from the language (not completely, though). Go takes a sensible middle way, because no pointers sometimes is ugly. Such a clean slate is good, because with older languages programmers fight their language deficiencies with habits (e.g. if (5 == x) instead of if (x == 5) to prevent if (x = 5)). On the other hand, we will find the pitfalls and dark corners of Go over time, but currently we do not know them enough. Go will acquire its own conventions, but we do not know all of them yet. This is the risk of a clean slate.
genwin 14y ago
> I feel[1] that a smart/talented C/C++/anything developer can go from someone who has never seen or heard of golang to a proficient and productive Go developer in a matter of a few weeks, maybe even _days_, if not less. Agreed! My career is mostly database development. Very high level. Yet I felt comfortable in Go in a few weeks. In a few months I was handling low-level stuff (to me, anyway) like tweaking Go's web server. Go's official online documentation is excellent, although I wish it had lots more examples. The next best learning resource I have on it is the book Programming in Go (also get the Go Programming Language Phrasebook).
wildmXranat 14y ago
Thanks for the links man.
lifeformed 14y ago
In general I agree, but I think it's important to note that while a lot of language skills are interchangeable, going from an objected oriented language to a functional one is a pretty big step.
danielbarla 14y ago
Re [1]: I think that's a reasonable statement. My issue with it, however, is that after just a few weeks (or even a few months), said developer might still not know about various design pitfalls or best practices in the new language. In short, they might not be writing idiomatic code, and you'll end up maintaining it for a long time. IMHO, becoming basically proficient with a language is very different to being able to create software which will scale well to large teams, while also aging gracefully over time.
yuhong 14y ago
Yea, michaelochurch have talked about that one before.
g3orge 14y ago
wow. these are very good... thanks.
languagefoo 14y ago
It took me 1 week each to go from 0 to being productive in javascript & ruby and it took roughly the same time for some other developers in my team. I think it's more about knowing where to start, knowing various paradigms, etc than the language itself.

TillE 14y ago

It's quite strange to me that people would identify as or look for a "[language] programmer". Sure, I happen to write more C++, Python, and C than anything else, but I've dabbled in just about everything and could reach comfortable proficiency in a matter of weeks. Most of programming and all of computer science is universal. Any serious programmer should be a polyglot by default.

shurcooL 14y ago
I completely agree. I think to completely explain this phenomena, one would have to make references to people's skill levels, and it's hard to explain it in a few words. So I'll just not say anything at all on this subject beyond that.
memset 14y ago
I agree with the premise that, as a professional software engineer, it is my responsibility to be a polyglot. As for myself, when I started writing Python, I mainly wrote C or Java code in Python - in a similar way, perhaps, how early C programs were littered with __asm__() constructs. It took a long time to learn how to write things in (though I hate the term) a "pythonic" way. That is, to learn the common language idioms that are not taught in any tutorial, or are part of pep8, which illustrate common patterns in Python code, the ins-and-outs of PYTHONPATH, etc etc. So while I agree that, in a weekend, a reasonably proficient programmer can pick up reasonable proficiency in a given language, being a "Python Programmer" to me means that one has developed an intuition for the common patterns, libraries, pitfalls, platforms, and clever specific features of a given language and its ecosystem.
- cpprototypes 14y ago
  I agree, but I think the age of the language and community is another factor. Java, Python, C++, these are all old languages with decades of history and habits. Newer things like Node.js and Go have no history, no baggage to learn or avoid. I think starting in something with such a clean slate is somewhat easier because there is less ecosystem to learn.
  - laumars 14y ago
    This has been my experience learning Go as well.
  - qznc 14y ago
    I once heard a quote like this "programming languages are frozen knowledge about software engineering". (Anybody got a clue who said something like this?) New languages usually improve upon older languages by making certain errors impossible by design. For example, Go allows pointers, but not pointer arithmetic. With C we learned pointer arithmetic is often harmful (though sometimes necessary), so Java removed pointers from the language (not completely, though). Go takes a sensible middle way, because no pointers sometimes is ugly. Such a clean slate is good, because with older languages programmers fight their language deficiencies with habits (e.g. if (5 == x) instead of if (x == 5) to prevent if (x = 5)). On the other hand, we will find the pitfalls and dark corners of Go over time, but currently we do not know them enough. Go will acquire its own conventions, but we do not know all of them yet. This is the risk of a clean slate.

genwin 14y ago

> I feel[1] that a smart/talented C/C++/anything developer can go from someone who has never seen or heard of golang to a proficient and productive Go developer in a matter of a few weeks, maybe even _days_, if not less. Agreed! My career is mostly database development. Very high level. Yet I felt comfortable in Go in a few weeks. In a few months I was handling low-level stuff (to me, anyway) like tweaking Go's web server. Go's official online documentation is excellent, although I wish it had lots more examples. The next best learning resource I have on it is the book Programming in Go (also get the Go Programming Language Phrasebook).

wildmXranat 14y ago

Thanks for the links man.

lifeformed 14y ago

In general I agree, but I think it's important to note that while a lot of language skills are interchangeable, going from an objected oriented language to a functional one is a pretty big step.

danielbarla 14y ago

Re [1]: I think that's a reasonable statement. My issue with it, however, is that after just a few weeks (or even a few months), said developer might still not know about various design pitfalls or best practices in the new language. In short, they might not be writing idiomatic code, and you'll end up maintaining it for a long time. IMHO, becoming basically proficient with a language is very different to being able to create software which will scale well to large teams, while also aging gracefully over time.

yuhong 14y ago

Yea, michaelochurch have talked about that one before.

g3orge 14y ago

wow. these are very good... thanks.

languagefoo 14y ago

It took me 1 week each to go from 0 to being productive in javascript & ruby and it took roughly the same time for some other developers in my team. I think it's more about knowing where to start, knowing various paradigms, etc than the language itself.