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Dictionary + algorithm + PoD t-shirt printer + meme = rape t-shirts on Amazon
- kevingadd 14y agoThe idea of an algorithm actually automatically generating and submitting shirt designs to Amazon is pretty much ridiculous. Yes, you could do it. But would you really? Who would actually invest that much engineering time into saving yourself the few minutes it would take to cobble that stuff together by hand? The author links to the company's catalog on Amazon and if you scroll through it, there is a lot of variety there - they aren't all just shirts created by a single algorithm playing mad libs. I'm sure lots of automated scripts are involved in a product going up onto Amazon, but to suggest that no humans were ever involved in the creation of those shirts is probably nonsense, unless you have evidence to show that it actually is the case. The most obvious explanation is that a human made them, and it's not particularly difficult to believe that someone out there would make that shirt design. I've met people like that.
- jrockway 14y agoThe most obvious conclusion is that a human made 500,000 shirt designs?
- jiggy2011 14y agoProbably not a single human, you can go on crowd sourcing websites and probably find people who will pump out t shirt designs for a $1 a pop.
- to3m 14y agoSo do you think these people will make $500,000 from their T-shirts to cover their costs?! I don't understand why it's so surprising that somebody might automate this. You know we have thse things called "computers" today... right? :) It's an obvious thing to do. Amazon already sell print-on-demand ebooks, allowing vendors to spam the products list with a torrent of shit at minimal cost so they can find out which bits stick. This is exactly the same principle. (See also, in case you're reading this later and there are a lot of comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5310567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5310567)
- jiggy2011 14y agoYou can probably to a single $1 design and create a number of products from it , as they seem to have. So I imagine the part that is auto generated is colouring etc rather than the design itself.
- Semaphor 14y agoThe "Keep calm and…" is not exactly something someone needs to design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On
- p0ckets 14y agoSomehow I don't think spending $500000 on these t-shirt designs would be a good idea (compared to generating them with an algorithm).
- AdamTReineke 14y agoThe article says there are 500,000 items by that seller on Amazon. If you guess there may be 10 different variants of each search, that's 50,000 unique shirts. The engineering cost is probably pretty low compared to the fact they can stumble upon tons of valuable little niches this way.
- waterlesscloud 14y agoHow much engineering time do you imagine was involved in this?
- itsprofitbaron 14y agoYou can generate the sentences with something like this: <?php $sentence = "Keep Calm And Carry On"; $replacements = array('Carry' => 'Other', 'Dictionary', 'Words', 'On' => 'A Lot', 'Off', 'Them', 'Us'); echo strtr($sentence, $replacements); ?> Once you've done that, simply use a Macro to add it to Amazon.
- stfp 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering
- andrewcooke 14y agowell, i did the same for just a website. http://colorlessgreen.net/ http://colorlessgreen.net/ (twitter - https://twitter.com/ColorlessG https://twitter.com/ColorlessG ). my verb list doesn't contain rape https://github.com/andrewcooke/pn-art-adj-adj-n-v-adv/blob/master/verbs https://github.com/andrewcooke/pn-art-adj-adj-n-v-adv/blob/m... . i'm not sure why - i did check by eye, but i don't remember having to exclude it. however i did filter so similarly-spelt words are rejected. so perhaps it was similar to some other verb. maybe i should make t-shirts. anyway, this is just to say that you've also, now, met someone who makes random sentences with computers. we do exist.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- jiggy2011 14y agoT shirts like this aren't new, neither are rape jokes. Stand up comedians like Jimmy Carr are known for making jokes of this type quite frequently. The joke isn't to "promote rape", the joke is the absurdity of putting a statement like that in a context where it doesn't really fit. In this case the "keep calm" meme.
- arithma 14y agoI don't understand a lot of the oversensitivity in the Western-culture. It's as if the whole thing is a large field of booby-traps. If you make a joke about rape, it does not mean you're promoting rape. It just means you're raising a sensitive subject. Sensitive subjects are not allowed in open-minded societies? Even as jokes? Contrast with the uproar that Islamists have against pictures they feel offensive about their religion.
- unimpressive 14y agoThe reasoning is that it's misogynistic because it normalizes rape. Of course, men are effected too. See: Prison rape jokes.
- netrus 14y agoThe prison rape jokes are especially noteworthy, as many people now seem to assume that getting raped as an inmate is indeed normal.
- jiggy2011 14y agoAs far as I'm aware prison rape is actually pretty rare outside of a handful of mainly US institutions.
- antoko 14y agoYes it is mainly in the US, but I think calling it "pretty rare" isn't helpful. For 2008, for example, the government had previously tallied 935 confirmed instances of sexual abuse. After asking around, and performing some calculations, the Justice Department came up with a new number: 216,000. That’s 216,000 victims, not instances. These victims are often assaulted multiple times over the course of the year. The Justice Department now seems to be saying that prison rape accounted for the majority of all rapes committed in the US in 2008, likely making the United States the first country in the history of the world to count more rapes for men than for women. http://nplusonemag.com/raise-the-crime-rate http://nplusonemag.com/raise-the-crime-rate
- jacalata 14y agoReally, this guys conclusion is that the problem here is people who don't understand automation on the customer side, not (if he's even correct about the system) people creating automated systems without thinking about possible failures in the system? Yea, they're all holding it wrong, its their fault for not being technically literate enough.
- throwaway125 14y agoThat's not how I read it. I see him saying they should have checked their verb list (thought about possible failures, as you said.) He also says that if people are more aware of the algorithmic nature of these things that they are less likely to get offended. Quite honestly, I think he's right. If people were informed about amazon not being the ones who are selling the t-shirts and the algorithmic nature of the t-shirt generation then people would probably react completely different to encountering that t-shirt.
- arrrg 14y agoNo, the content is the same disgusting shit. Algorithms are not some sort of magic excuse that frees you from responsibility. Ok, so there was no bad intent. That’s alright. But the bottom line still is that Amazon is selling disgusting crap and nothing can change that. People criticizing that led to the removal of said disgusting crap. This played out quite nicely, actually.
- mpyne 14y agoWell, it depends on what people are offended about. If they're offended that a shirt exists somewhere, anywhere, saying to rape someone then sure, there's probably no difference here. If they're offended that some asshole went out of their way to make a shirt talking about raping people then it's a bit different. There never was anyone who went out of their way to make a shirt. This is the near-equivalent of running "rm -rf * /" to remove only sub-directories and accidentally inserting the extra space. So should they have checked their verb list better, or thought more about the possibility of what their algorithm would generate? Absolutely! But their sin was not nearly as bad as actually thinking that such a shirt would be acceptable to make.
- hkmurakami 14y agoReminds me of this story: "Programmer creates 800,000 books algorithmically and starts selling them on Amazon" http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/143382-programmer-creates-800000-books-algorithmically-starts-selling-them-on-amazon http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/143382-programmer-creates...
- jerrya 14y agohttp://uk.news.yahoo.com/keep-calm-rape-t-shirts-mistake-041926992.html http://uk.news.yahoo.com/keep-calm-rape-t-shirts-mistake-041... When Solid Gold Bomb withdrew the 'rape' garment it also posted a statement on its website which said: "We have been informed of the fact that we were selling an offensive T-shirt primarily in the UK. "This has been immediately deleted as it was and had been automatically generated using a scripted computer process running against 100s of thousands of dictionary words." Not on sale: computer generated t shirt advocating rape. Still on sale: human authored book advocating throwing rocks at boys. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Stupid-Throw-Rocks-Them/dp/0761135936 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Stupid-Throw-Rocks-Them/dp/0761... human authored 2013 calendar, boys are stupid: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Are-Stupid-2013-Calendar/dp/1847573932/ref=pd_cp_b_0 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Are-Stupid-2013-Calendar/dp/184... Also on sale: bunny suicides: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bunny-Suicides-Grid-Calendar-teNeues/dp/3832757368/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bunny-Suicides-Grid-Calendar-teNeues... And Nuns having fun: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nuns-Having-Calendar-2013-Wall/dp/0761167013/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_6 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nuns-Having-Calendar-2013-Wall/dp/07...
- Claudus 14y agoThe irony here, is that the outrage over these generated t-shirts is increasing their visibility and promoting something that no one had ever heard of or cared about before. The sadness here is that disparaging boys is much more acceptable, and people immediately assume that these shirts are referring to raping women, completely overlooking the fact that men can be victims of rape as well.
- ceol 14y ago> and people immediately assume that these shirts are referring to raping women It seems the only people making that assumption are you and the grandparent.
- Claudus 14y agoAnyone who is informed is making that assumption, hopefully that now includes you. http://www.missrepresentation.org/not-buying-it/ http://www.missrepresentation.org/not-buying-it/ People worldwide are using hashtag #NotBuyingIt to call-out sexism in the media. Let the media know: sexism won’t sell. Use #NotBuyingIt on Twitter to challenge the misrepresentation of women and girls.
- vy8vWJlco 14y agoI think it's socially pathological to appeal to Amazon (the tweets shown) to remove something offensive or distateful. Demanding intervention by random intermediaries simply sets the precedent that Amazon's role is to censor, which everyone hates the rest of the year. I think it's more responsible and effective to financially boycott something like this, assuming of course that you don't find this ironic, if dark (the original "keep calm and carry on" could be seen as promoting sheepish obedience, which I personally find genuinely offensive rather than merely distasteful...).
- arrrg 14y agoWha…? Sorry, if Amazon does disgusting shit like sell this (and it is disgusting shit, no matter how it was created) Amazon deserves to be scolded for it. Nothing to do with censorship. Boycotts are ineffective and most certainly wouldn’t work here. What’s wrong with making clear that something someone does is disgusting and they should stop it? That’s quite simple.
- andrewguenther 14y agoExcept it has everything to do with censorship. Amazon cannot hand check every item that is put up for sale, it is infeasible and a waste of time. But if Amazon were to respond to customer concerns by censoring offensive content, that makes much more sense.
- powertower 14y ago> Sorry, if Amazon does disgusting shit like sell this (and it is disgusting shit, no matter how it was created) Amazon deserves to be scolded for it. Nothing to do with censorship. There is a Mark Twain book with the word ni-ger printed in it. You better do something about it quick. It's offensive.
- vy8vWJlco 14y agoAmazon is a retail interface for the original seller. If we pull Amazon's levers, causing them to filter (as opposed to directing criticism at the origin), Amazon, a vast-reaching intermediary, becomes an explicit and expected tool for anyone who has the influence (social, monetary, etc) to manipulate it, and it can quickly become the norm in the same way that ISPs are quick to become copyright/content police in the absence of effective safe-harbor rights. In not liking something, it's OK to be loud about it, but Amazon is the wrong target IMHO, and by directly targeting/shaming Amazon, the long-term result is, in addition to the immediate effect of cutting off the originator, a warping of accountability in ways that seem to me to increase the probability of censorship (and anti-competition, etc). For example, a likely next step for Amazon would be to implement pre-screening, by a human, of all products before listing. Net neutrality, and good government, and fair markets, all depend on the most direct forms of accountability available, IMHO. Again, I can certainly understand how the shirt could be offensive.
- rcavezza 14y agoThe key takeaway for me is that when marketing products to non programmers, you can still create a very believable personal touch with emails and all correspondence. Using first names, sending emails at non scheduled times, and even potentially adding "Sent From my iPhone" at the bottom can turn marketing emails into unbelievable personal notes to the eyes of a "typical user".
- will_brown 14y agoPeople are offended because an Amazon user is selling "rape t-shirt" on Amazon's website. People are so offended they will boycott Amazon? Would it be hypocritical for the offended to not also boycott: Twitter because they permit their users to Tweet rape jokes (I have seen them); YouTube because their users can upload videos that recorded people telling rape jokes; for a long period of time Facebook allowed "pro-rape" pages; and finally do not forget to boycott Google because they have indexed every rape joke on the web, they even indexed the "rape t-shirt" permitting such things to be searched in an instant, plus Google makes money when you search for rape jokes.
- bjourne 14y agoThe difference, of course, is that Amazon takes a cut when any of these "Keep calm and rape her" t-shirts gets sold. Twitter doesn't.
- jiggy2011 14y agoI don't know what twitter's business model is anymore, but I assure they have a way to connect "people tweeting stuff and reading tweets" with "profit".
- will_brown 14y agoHow does Twitter make money? Ads and "sponsored" tweets; therefore, it is entirely concivable if someone is reading tweets that include rape jokes Twitter is profiting because ads or sponsored Tweets appear on the same page. This would be similar to Google search, YouTube and Facebook - I am not making the arguement, but I could see people take the position the ad companies are even more culpable than Amazon because they are using advertiser dollars to include ads with content about rape - how happy would you be as an advertiser to place ads for keywords like "jokes" or "comedy" and come to find out you website/product ads appear next to searches for "rape jokes"?
- adventured 14y agoIt's convenient outrage. Or call it bumper sticker outrage. It's shallow because it demonstrates the absolute bare minimum of response and investigation. And yes it's hypocritical.
- jballanc 14y agoI like the author's conclusion. It brings to mind Clarke's Third Law. Applied to independent individuals, though, there is a somewhat disturbing conclusion: if you allow technology to progress without correspondingly advancing your own knowledge, you will increasingly find yourself living in a magical realm.
- paol 14y agoThis is already true for most people in the modern world.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- Bryan22 14y agoKeep calm and don't buy their merchandise if you're offended. Telling the world about this company and trying to crucify them for it is the wrong way of going after them. The shit storm that followed the 2 minutes the shirt was for sale is probably the best publicity the company could have ever asked for. I for one am glad amazon is not in the business of censoring what's for sale or not. Their company provides an online market place to sell goods, period. Blaming amazon for something that 1) offended you and 2) was a mistake is incredibly short sighted. Ever make a mistake in your life? They did, it happened, they apologized.
- pgroves 14y agoFascinating to see Automated Design (optimization software applied to product development) in the wild. Some of the more interesting applications deal with situations where the definition of 'optimal' is based on a changing data set, like trending topics on Twitter. Obviously, this went horribly wrong in this case, which brings us to the lesson: Optimization technology can generate lots of designs that score well against some set of metrics. You still need someone with decent 'taste' to select which solutions you'll put into production. It doesn't matter if you're optimizing stock trading strategies, jet engines, or t-shirts. Creating a decent UI for selecting good designs from a giant batch of autogenerated designs is a hard and interesting problem, and almost always needs to be custom built for the domain. Picking the best jet engine needs a totally different UI than picking the best stock trading strategy.
- milfot 14y agoMore to the point, algorithms aren't buying these shirts.. what kind of sick fuck is?
- rkuykendall-com 14y agoRead the article. You are making an incorrect assumption that anybody has purchased these shirts, or that they even exist.
- milfot 14y agoCool, thanks.. faith in humanity restored. I am in the bad habit of reading HN on my old phone (CM7). The comments load much quicker than the articles, and sometimes they lead me astray.
- rkuykendall-com 14y agoI understand. I am guilty of only reading the comments when I feel an article is meant to address a single very interesting question, and then fails to go anywhere near it in the first two paragraphs.