3 ms·

> So we move. We force their hand What do you have in mind?

by nomel 8d ago

PaulCarrack 8d ago
> We need to start the long process of hard forking now or turn to alternatives like Firefox as a new foundation.
- sieabahlpark 8d ago
  [dead]
- luqtas 8d ago
  oh yes sure. just like we can shift the population into installing Debian into their machines so we also deter M$ and Apple abuse /s
  - Rohansi 8d ago
    It's so much easier to switch browsers than platform/OS. Unless you have an iPhone or iPad.
  - olyjohn 7d ago
    We did it before. Thanks to Firefox we broke the IE6 monopoly even on Windows.
    - mitxela 7d ago
      How did that happen, anyway? Tabs? What's the next killer feature after tabs? Maybe sync?
      - NOTanAlagent 7d ago
        [dead]
      - grahamburger 7d ago
        Haven't all the major browsers had sync for ages? I've been using Firefox's built-in sync for so long I don't even remember what it was like without it.
      - epihelix 7d ago
        Adblock, I would have thought. And Google can't compete in this space, by their very nature. This is the message that Firefox needs to push: Hate ads? Use Firefox.
        EbNar 7d ago
        Considering that Firefox by itself doesn't block anything without extensions, that seemingly less than 10% of users use extensions and that tgere5are already quite a few snappier browsers that block ads by default...
        mitxela 7d ago
        Ooh, I think you're right. Even better if it can bypass more annoyances, cookie popups, captchas and (if legal) paywalls. Maybe it should have Libredirect built in. It could be a user agent, instead of a site owner agent.
  - godelski 7d ago
    You act like it hasn't been done before. Also, switching browsers is trivial. I do it on my parents' machines and they don't notice
- deleted 8d ago
  [deleted]
shevy-java 8d ago
Well, it is time to realise that GPL and similar variants, are better in the long term. I like MIT too, but GPL worked so much better for the linux kernel. Google and others abuse the ecosystem of open source contributors here.
- microtonal 8d ago
  You mean the Linux kernel that the GrapheneOS project has to request every update for and then has to wait up to weeks to get a Google Drive link? The GPL is worth nothing if nobody is enforcing it aggressively.
  - dvdkon 8d ago
    The GPL is the only reason they even get that. More enforcement would certainly be good, but it's not like the GPL is worthless without a legal team backing you up.
  - nomel 8d ago
    Could you quote the part of the GPL that they're not adhering to (which you seem to be implying), in this situation?
    - microtonal 7d ago
      There has been a long discussion about this a while ago on HN when these delays came up. The relevant blurb: Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or, Many people argued that 'customarily used for software interchange' is worded-as is to always be relevant to the times when the license is applied and that providing access to a Git repository is customary nowadays. In fact: - The upstream Linux tree is distributed through Git. - The relevant Pixel kernel sources used to be distributed through Git. IANAL, so I am not sure how this part of the license will hold up in court, but the spirit is clear. Providing a Google Drive link is not customarily used for software interchange. Also, I think it is fairly clear that the procedure is put in place to make everyone's life difficult, given that the relevant source used to be distributed through Git.
JumpCrisscross 8d ago
Donate to Ladybird https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/
- jm4 8d ago
  They have their own problems. They may be "open source", but they don't accept contributions. I'm skeptical it will ever become more than a hobby project.
  - tech234a 8d ago
    Commit activity actually increased after they blocked external contributions in June: https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/graphs/commit-ac...
  - ragnese 8d ago
    Is not accepting contributions the only/biggest issue you have with the project? I'm honestly becoming more and more okay with the "cathedral" style of open source. Depending on the project, catering to "the community" can lead a loss of focus, lack of a cohesive "vision" or scope, and just generally trying to be everything to everyone without the resources to maintain a giant beast. With something like a browser (engine), I'm totally okay with someone saying "I'm an expert and I'm trying something with my own vision/priorities. I don't want input from random people that I have to spend time evaluating."
    - seb1204 7d ago
      Yes I can relate to this. Picking good, valuable feedback out of the noise has become a chore.
- takeda 7d ago
  It's on BSD license, Google or someone else can again Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
  - 7d ago
saghm 8d ago
I'm reading your comment on Firefox. You can probably read mine and write a reply on it too!
- godelski 7d ago
  That's crazy! I'm commenting from Firefox! What a crazy world! How is this even possible?!

> So we move. We force their hand What do you have in mind?

by nomel 8d ago

> So we move. We force their hand What do you have in mind?

PaulCarrack 8d ago

> We need to start the long process of hard forking now or turn to alternatives like Firefox as a new foundation.

sieabahlpark 8d ago
[dead]
luqtas 8d ago
oh yes sure. just like we can shift the population into installing Debian into their machines so we also deter M$ and Apple abuse /s
- Rohansi 8d ago
  It's so much easier to switch browsers than platform/OS. Unless you have an iPhone or iPad.
- olyjohn 7d ago
  We did it before. Thanks to Firefox we broke the IE6 monopoly even on Windows.
  - mitxela 7d ago
    How did that happen, anyway? Tabs? What's the next killer feature after tabs? Maybe sync?
    - NOTanAlagent 7d ago
      [dead]
    - grahamburger 7d ago
      Haven't all the major browsers had sync for ages? I've been using Firefox's built-in sync for so long I don't even remember what it was like without it.
    - epihelix 7d ago
      Adblock, I would have thought. And Google can't compete in this space, by their very nature. This is the message that Firefox needs to push: Hate ads? Use Firefox.
      - EbNar 7d ago
        Considering that Firefox by itself doesn't block anything without extensions, that seemingly less than 10% of users use extensions and that tgere5are already quite a few snappier browsers that block ads by default...
      - mitxela 7d ago
        Ooh, I think you're right. Even better if it can bypass more annoyances, cookie popups, captchas and (if legal) paywalls. Maybe it should have Libredirect built in. It could be a user agent, instead of a site owner agent.
- godelski 7d ago
  You act like it hasn't been done before. Also, switching browsers is trivial. I do it on my parents' machines and they don't notice
deleted 8d ago
[deleted]

shevy-java 8d ago

Well, it is time to realise that GPL and similar variants, are better in the long term. I like MIT too, but GPL worked so much better for the linux kernel. Google and others abuse the ecosystem of open source contributors here.

microtonal 8d ago
You mean the Linux kernel that the GrapheneOS project has to request every update for and then has to wait up to weeks to get a Google Drive link? The GPL is worth nothing if nobody is enforcing it aggressively.
- dvdkon 8d ago
  The GPL is the only reason they even get that. More enforcement would certainly be good, but it's not like the GPL is worthless without a legal team backing you up.
- nomel 8d ago
  Could you quote the part of the GPL that they're not adhering to (which you seem to be implying), in this situation?
  - microtonal 7d ago
    There has been a long discussion about this a while ago on HN when these delays came up. The relevant blurb: Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or, Many people argued that 'customarily used for software interchange' is worded-as is to always be relevant to the times when the license is applied and that providing access to a Git repository is customary nowadays. In fact: - The upstream Linux tree is distributed through Git. - The relevant Pixel kernel sources used to be distributed through Git. IANAL, so I am not sure how this part of the license will hold up in court, but the spirit is clear. Providing a Google Drive link is not customarily used for software interchange. Also, I think it is fairly clear that the procedure is put in place to make everyone's life difficult, given that the relevant source used to be distributed through Git.

JumpCrisscross 8d ago

Donate to Ladybird https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/

jm4 8d ago
They have their own problems. They may be "open source", but they don't accept contributions. I'm skeptical it will ever become more than a hobby project.
- tech234a 8d ago
  Commit activity actually increased after they blocked external contributions in June: https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/graphs/commit-ac...
- ragnese 8d ago
  Is not accepting contributions the only/biggest issue you have with the project? I'm honestly becoming more and more okay with the "cathedral" style of open source. Depending on the project, catering to "the community" can lead a loss of focus, lack of a cohesive "vision" or scope, and just generally trying to be everything to everyone without the resources to maintain a giant beast. With something like a browser (engine), I'm totally okay with someone saying "I'm an expert and I'm trying something with my own vision/priorities. I don't want input from random people that I have to spend time evaluating."
  - seb1204 7d ago
    Yes I can relate to this. Picking good, valuable feedback out of the noise has become a chore.
takeda 7d ago
It's on BSD license, Google or someone else can again Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
- 7d ago

saghm 8d ago

I'm reading your comment on Firefox. You can probably read mine and write a reply on it too!

godelski 7d ago
That's crazy! I'm commenting from Firefox! What a crazy world! How is this even possible?!