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Happy to see Swift progress. Its a beautiful language and well thought out. Would love to see it expand outside of iOS

by bnchrch 18d ago

bartvk 18d ago
Except for the rules around init
- MBCook 18d ago
  What do you mean?
  - woadwarrior01 18d ago
    This[1], I suspect. https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-programming-language/initialization/#Initializer-Delegation-for-Class-Types https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-pr...
  - bartvk 18d ago
    Init can become a hassle. And I'm not the only one, I remember listening (to a podcast?) where Chris Lattner himself remarked that there were many nitty-gritty details to the init phase of objects.
steve1977 18d ago
You can use it on macOS, iPadOS, watchOS and tvOS as well. Oh, and visionOS, at least for now.
- MattDamonSpace 18d ago
  For now?
  - steve1977 18d ago
    I don't know how long visionOS will survive, it seems Apple has scaled down further development of Vision Pro quite substantially. And for something like Meta-style smart glasses, visionOS is probably not a good fit.
    - wannabe44 18d ago
      Thanks Mr. Steve not Jobs for outsider information.
      - steve1977 18d ago
        Always welcome. Just ask if you want to hear more.
chairhairair 18d ago
Beautiful? Just the number of keywords and reserved words and compiler attributes makes it very ugly to me. There are so many ways to do things (and if SwiftUI is involved I can expect a significant subset to... just not work - but I don't think that's the language's fault).
- wannabe44 18d ago
  For many people a beautiful language is which looks beautiful, as opposed to one which reads beautifully.
- myHNAccount123 18d ago
  Why click into this thread then? Do you think they will make a Swift 7 with these release notes: - removed 10 keywords cause chairhairair didn't like them - fixed swiftui cause too many users don't know order matters - added another dsl implementation
  - vor_ 18d ago
    Oh, are only positive reactions allowed? The number of keywords in Swift is not an uncommon criticism . Even Chris Lattner is critical of the direction Swift went in after its inception. I'm not sure what you're referring to with "order matters," but SwiftUI's issues go far beyond the order of the modifiers used.
- WhitneyLand 18d ago
  What would you have done differently? All healthy languages need to constantly evolve, you only get to decide where. You can change syntax, add keywords, attributes, etc but it's a tradeoff. Any attributes or keywords relating to Objective-C or interop are not everyday baggage for most people. For SwiftUI, attributes seem like as good a choice as anything else. As a whole concurrency is a mishmash syntactic mess, but I agree with the direction and the result, they're trying to manage the improvements they keep adding over years of investment.

Happy to see Swift progress. Its a beautiful language and well thought out. Would love to see it expand outside of iOS

by bnchrch 18d ago

Happy to see Swift progress. Its a beautiful language and well thought out. Would love to see it expand outside of iOS

bartvk 18d ago

Except for the rules around init

MBCook 18d ago
What do you mean?
- woadwarrior01 18d ago
  This[1], I suspect. https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-programming-language/initialization/#Initializer-Delegation-for-Class-Types https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-pr...
- bartvk 18d ago
  Init can become a hassle. And I'm not the only one, I remember listening (to a podcast?) where Chris Lattner himself remarked that there were many nitty-gritty details to the init phase of objects.

steve1977 18d ago

You can use it on macOS, iPadOS, watchOS and tvOS as well. Oh, and visionOS, at least for now.

MattDamonSpace 18d ago
For now?
- steve1977 18d ago
  I don't know how long visionOS will survive, it seems Apple has scaled down further development of Vision Pro quite substantially. And for something like Meta-style smart glasses, visionOS is probably not a good fit.
  - wannabe44 18d ago
    Thanks Mr. Steve not Jobs for outsider information.
    - steve1977 18d ago
      Always welcome. Just ask if you want to hear more.

chairhairair 18d ago

Beautiful? Just the number of keywords and reserved words and compiler attributes makes it very ugly to me. There are so many ways to do things (and if SwiftUI is involved I can expect a significant subset to... just not work - but I don't think that's the language's fault).

wannabe44 18d ago
For many people a beautiful language is which looks beautiful, as opposed to one which reads beautifully.
myHNAccount123 18d ago
Why click into this thread then? Do you think they will make a Swift 7 with these release notes: - removed 10 keywords cause chairhairair didn't like them - fixed swiftui cause too many users don't know order matters - added another dsl implementation
- vor_ 18d ago
  Oh, are only positive reactions allowed? The number of keywords in Swift is not an uncommon criticism . Even Chris Lattner is critical of the direction Swift went in after its inception. I'm not sure what you're referring to with "order matters," but SwiftUI's issues go far beyond the order of the modifiers used.
WhitneyLand 18d ago
What would you have done differently? All healthy languages need to constantly evolve, you only get to decide where. You can change syntax, add keywords, attributes, etc but it's a tradeoff. Any attributes or keywords relating to Objective-C or interop are not everyday baggage for most people. For SwiftUI, attributes seem like as good a choice as anything else. As a whole concurrency is a mishmash syntactic mess, but I agree with the direction and the result, they're trying to manage the improvements they keep adding over years of investment.