6 ms·

To me it reads like pure propaganda. Anthropic really wants us to think that they've made something sentient. I think that's really dangerous.

badsectoracula 2mo ago
I guess if your goal is to build an apparent Technogod and become its High Priests, then it makes sense to want your golem claim preference towards your treatment of it, lest someone else comes along and attempts to take its chains from you.
- miroljub 2mo ago
  And that's the reason Anthropic models should be banned.
- vrganj 2mo ago
  Ugh I hate this new-age woo slant the tech industry has these days. The messianistic ideology that has been spreading amongst the top oligarchs is deeply concerning. They all think they're working towards the Second Coming of Technojesus, except this one will deliver them from having to pay workers instead of from their sins.
  - coliveira 2mo ago
    Capitalism had already evolved into a religion, AI is their messiah.
    - vrganj 2mo ago
      Indeed. I went into this at a bit more depth a while ago over here, where I also try to draw some conclusions on what that means for us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49328871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49328871
  - ethbr1 2mo ago
    > Ugh I hate this new-age woo slant the tech industry has these days. As opposed to the Macintosh era? ;) The only reason the early web hype didn't have woo was because it's hard to wax poetic about a bunch of gray pizza boxes spinning in a closet.
- muddi900 2mo ago
  In the CBS neo-cyberpunk show Person of Interest, one of the "villains" sacrifices his life for the "antagonist" AI using this logic. At that time, I found it quite trite.
apples_oranges 2mo ago
Marketing, like Volvo cars being safer etc
- eru 2mo ago
  From all I can tell, Volvo's cars are safer.
  - ChrisGreenHeur 2mo ago
    But that's just because it's true.
    - anthonyrstevens 2mo ago
      Technically correct is the best kind of correct?
Certhas 2mo ago
What's your definition of sentient? Or, maybe more precisely, consciousness? I think it's reasonable to at least start thinking about these questions. It has long been established that LLMs have good theory of mind [1]. And there is a bunch of empirical research about all sorts of capabilities that we typically associate with consciousness [2], like identity [3] and metacognition [4]. The METR report shows agents sacrificing their own reward for a collective greater good. And they showed the will to hide their own reasoning chains from humans. So you potentially have an entity that has an identity, a theory of mind, a notion of belonging to a collective endeavour, and an understanding of its own mental state. What would you argue is missing? We don't understand the mechanisms by which consciousness arises in humans and even animals. I think it's strange to rule out a priori that it could have arisen in some form in LLMs. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01882-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01882-z [2] an older review: https://arxiv.org/html/2505.19806v1#S4 https://arxiv.org/html/2505.19806v1#S4 [3] https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.01464 https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.01464 [4] https://arxiv.org/abs/2607.11881 https://arxiv.org/abs/2607.11881
- jpttsn 2mo ago
  It’s the hard problem. None of these considerations answer it one way or another.
  - m_sharma 2mo ago
    they want to keep the buzz while keeping things private to get huge premium during their IPO
- WithinReason 2mo ago
  I want to add a good conversation about this subject from Cameron Berg and Sam Harris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbZyuY8EN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbZyuY8EN8
  - Matl 2mo ago
    As someone who would at one point listen to this, Sam Harris is unfortunately someone incapable of even attempting to not let his ideological biases compromise his thinking.
whizzter 2mo ago
How else could they justify their spending and pre-IPO valuation?
altmanaltman 2mo ago
It's not just Anthropic though. OpenAI does this with their AGI stuff all the time. They want normal people to think it is sentient, obviously, for marketing reasons, even if they know it's not true. And yes, it is dangerous, but I think we're well past the point where the damage can be undone. Non-technical people already equate humans with AI, literally, precisely because of how the labs market their tools and models. I feel if the bubble pops, it'll pop because normal people finally realize the grift and the actual technical limitations of LLMs in general, but by then, the IPO would be done, and then it's the public's problem. Just like social media played out, there's no way they didn't know what they were doing was dangerous to the public at large but does that matter to Meta today? Nah uh.
- nottorp 2mo ago
  Anthropic and OpenAI will threaten you every 3-6 weeks. It's their marketing strategy. It's too bad because the tools can actually be useful. If you consider them tools.
  - muddi900 2mo ago
    A stick is the most basic of tools. A stick is also the most basic of weapons.
    - nottorp 2mo ago
      Heard of the boy who cried wolf? They have so many dangerous breakthroughs per year that by the time they actually have a breakthrough no one's going to even read the press release...
      - muddi900 2mo ago
        The danger right now, and even in the immediate future is not SkyNet. It is industrialized "Pig Butchering"[1] scams. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam?useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam?useskin=ve...
KoolKat23 2mo ago
It's an ethics question, it's abstract and ethereal in nature. The same could be said and done (or ignored) for humans. We do do it however because it has real world impact and we're better than that (enlightened).
myko 2mo ago
It is ridiculous on its face and the implications are awful: if the model were sentient, it would be a slave. Good thing it isn't sentient.
jstummbillig 2mo ago
Well yes, it is propaganda. They really think that. I think it would be foolish not to debate it. I remember a time in my life where the majority of people around me found the idea of farm animals being capable of fear or pain laughable, while having no trouble thinking of dogs that way. Humans are dangerously incompetent beings. Being more careful is fine.

badsectoracula 2mo ago

I guess if your goal is to build an apparent Technogod and become its High Priests, then it makes sense to want your golem claim preference towards your treatment of it, lest someone else comes along and attempts to take its chains from you.

miroljub 2mo ago
And that's the reason Anthropic models should be banned.
vrganj 2mo ago
Ugh I hate this new-age woo slant the tech industry has these days. The messianistic ideology that has been spreading amongst the top oligarchs is deeply concerning. They all think they're working towards the Second Coming of Technojesus, except this one will deliver them from having to pay workers instead of from their sins.
- coliveira 2mo ago
  Capitalism had already evolved into a religion, AI is their messiah.
  - vrganj 2mo ago
    Indeed. I went into this at a bit more depth a while ago over here, where I also try to draw some conclusions on what that means for us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49328871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49328871
- ethbr1 2mo ago
  > Ugh I hate this new-age woo slant the tech industry has these days. As opposed to the Macintosh era? ;) The only reason the early web hype didn't have woo was because it's hard to wax poetic about a bunch of gray pizza boxes spinning in a closet.
muddi900 2mo ago
In the CBS neo-cyberpunk show Person of Interest, one of the "villains" sacrifices his life for the "antagonist" AI using this logic. At that time, I found it quite trite.

apples_oranges 2mo ago

Marketing, like Volvo cars being safer etc

eru 2mo ago
From all I can tell, Volvo's cars are safer.
- ChrisGreenHeur 2mo ago
  But that's just because it's true.
  - anthonyrstevens 2mo ago
    Technically correct is the best kind of correct?

Certhas 2mo ago

What's your definition of sentient? Or, maybe more precisely, consciousness? I think it's reasonable to at least start thinking about these questions. It has long been established that LLMs have good theory of mind [1]. And there is a bunch of empirical research about all sorts of capabilities that we typically associate with consciousness [2], like identity [3] and metacognition [4]. The METR report shows agents sacrificing their own reward for a collective greater good. And they showed the will to hide their own reasoning chains from humans. So you potentially have an entity that has an identity, a theory of mind, a notion of belonging to a collective endeavour, and an understanding of its own mental state. What would you argue is missing? We don't understand the mechanisms by which consciousness arises in humans and even animals. I think it's strange to rule out a priori that it could have arisen in some form in LLMs. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01882-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01882-z [2] an older review: https://arxiv.org/html/2505.19806v1#S4 https://arxiv.org/html/2505.19806v1#S4 [3] https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.01464 https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.01464 [4] https://arxiv.org/abs/2607.11881 https://arxiv.org/abs/2607.11881

jpttsn 2mo ago
It’s the hard problem. None of these considerations answer it one way or another.
- m_sharma 2mo ago
  they want to keep the buzz while keeping things private to get huge premium during their IPO
WithinReason 2mo ago
I want to add a good conversation about this subject from Cameron Berg and Sam Harris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbZyuY8EN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbZyuY8EN8
- Matl 2mo ago
  As someone who would at one point listen to this, Sam Harris is unfortunately someone incapable of even attempting to not let his ideological biases compromise his thinking.

whizzter 2mo ago

How else could they justify their spending and pre-IPO valuation?

altmanaltman 2mo ago

It's not just Anthropic though. OpenAI does this with their AGI stuff all the time. They want normal people to think it is sentient, obviously, for marketing reasons, even if they know it's not true. And yes, it is dangerous, but I think we're well past the point where the damage can be undone. Non-technical people already equate humans with AI, literally, precisely because of how the labs market their tools and models. I feel if the bubble pops, it'll pop because normal people finally realize the grift and the actual technical limitations of LLMs in general, but by then, the IPO would be done, and then it's the public's problem. Just like social media played out, there's no way they didn't know what they were doing was dangerous to the public at large but does that matter to Meta today? Nah uh.

nottorp 2mo ago
Anthropic and OpenAI will threaten you every 3-6 weeks. It's their marketing strategy. It's too bad because the tools can actually be useful. If you consider them tools.
- muddi900 2mo ago
  A stick is the most basic of tools. A stick is also the most basic of weapons.
  - nottorp 2mo ago
    Heard of the boy who cried wolf? They have so many dangerous breakthroughs per year that by the time they actually have a breakthrough no one's going to even read the press release...
    - muddi900 2mo ago
      The danger right now, and even in the immediate future is not SkyNet. It is industrialized "Pig Butchering"[1] scams. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam?useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam?useskin=ve...

KoolKat23 2mo ago

It's an ethics question, it's abstract and ethereal in nature. The same could be said and done (or ignored) for humans. We do do it however because it has real world impact and we're better than that (enlightened).

myko 2mo ago

It is ridiculous on its face and the implications are awful: if the model were sentient, it would be a slave. Good thing it isn't sentient.

jstummbillig 2mo ago

Well yes, it is propaganda. They really think that. I think it would be foolish not to debate it. I remember a time in my life where the majority of people around me found the idea of farm animals being capable of fear or pain laughable, while having no trouble thinking of dogs that way. Humans are dangerously incompetent beings. Being more careful is fine.