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Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a to

by tasoeur 24d ago

Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive :-/

kome 24d ago
some people would rather live in paris than los angels or san francisco (and rightly so, if you ask me)...
- tasoeur 24d ago
  I actually live in Paris and get your point, but at some point you have to face the reality of the market/industry and really try your best to get good folks to join, especially in the current climate where US researchers may be looking for greener pastures.
  - Towaway69 24d ago
    > researchers may be looking for greener pastures. Is that still a thing? Or have those would leave have left, after all, it's been ~6 years of Trump already.
    - clarionbell 24d ago
      Sort of yes. But it's nowhere near as much as some would like to believe. It mostly concerns those who have unclear immigration status, had their funding cut off, or don't care about money. Now, that is quite a lot of people. But not nearly enough to reverse decades of brain drain.
      - Towaway69 23d ago
        > unclear immigration status, had their funding cut off, or don't care about money. Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. I thought this would be more to do with politics. So we’ll end up with ex-US folks starting up those European companies that decouple Europe from US tech! (Thats tongue in cheek.)
- mciancia 24d ago
  But you should be able to hire most of the people you want, not just some that happen to pick Paris. Also, if given a choice of 90k eur in Paris vs let's say 2m usd in US I'm pretty sure suddenly most of the issues people have with US would suddenly disappear ;)
- eloisant 24d ago
  US software companies (Google, Meta, MS, etc) have offices in Paris and they pay way more than that. Especially if you take into account total comp (Mistral is private so any stocks you get are "locked" until IPO or sell out) Yes 90k is more than most French software companies pay, but the salary needs to be competitive with those US companies.
  - jongjong 24d ago
    When I was in Germany a few years ago, I was browsing jobs available in France and most software development jobs were under $55K USD. I don't know how you're supposed to survive on that. You can probably make more money as a waiter. Germany is not so great either in that sense though at least in crypto sector, the pay was reasonable... Though as a job it was total BS. UK was pretty good at some point (though all the really good jobs were gate-kept by IR35 regulations), The Netherlands was pretty good (especially contract roles thanks to big tax discounts for foreigners). But IMO, one of the best countries outside of the US for software work has been Australia. I actually came back to Australia because of it. Though it's not quite as lucrative today but it's certainly still much better paid than France and has potential. That said, if you want to do your own startup and you do not have special business connections or pedigree, then the US is the only real option IMO. I think it comes down to easy money. Easy come, easy go. To be rich enough to invest in startups in France, you need to be born into old money or be a complete freak of nature. These kinds of people don't part with their money easily. They need a guaranteed return and they can't rely on any media channel to bring traffic. If you live outside of the US, all media channels are essentially working against you; you can literally feel that and so everything is riskier. It's like playing the same game with a massive handicap.
    - Bayart 24d ago
      > When I was in Germany a few years ago, I was browsing jobs available in France and most software development jobs were under $55K USD. I don't know how you're supposed to survive on that. You can probably make more money as a waiter. Salaries are calculated differently in France, Germany, US etc. For example working in Germany you're likely to fork a huge amount monthly to your health insurance. It actually makes it difficult to negotiate comp across borders. $55k USD brut in France is around 2.8k EUR / month after taxes in France, which counts as the upper bracket of Middle Class in most of the country outside of Paris. Paltry when you're used to tech comps but decent for the vast majority of people here. On the whole I agree that it's not competitive regionally or globally, and as for myself I'd leave for Switzerland or Australia if I had the opportunity.
kraftman 24d ago
There's more to life than money past a certain point, I'd rather live in the Alps on a lower salary.
- selfawareMammal 24d ago
  You dont even live in the Alps with 90K lmao. And if you expect top performance, you should expect top salary. Or at least something competitive. 90K for a company like Mistral is a bit embarrassing.
  - kraftman 24d ago
    I literally do.
  - qnpnpmqppnp 24d ago
    €90k is in the top 5% salaries in France. Of course you can live in the Alps, or anywhere else in France for that matter.
  - kome 24d ago
    > You dont even live in the Alps with 90K lmao. this comment is insane...
    - alansaber 24d ago
      To be fair, Switzerland is really expensive.
      - kome 23d ago
        ok, but besides the fact 90k is absolutely fine for CH as well, and incredibly good for italy, france or austria.
      - desterothx 23d ago
        The alps are shared between Switzerland, Italy and France. You can live in the French alps a lot cheaper than in Switzerland
pkos98 24d ago
In Germany AFAIK their Senior base salary ceiling is ~ 180k EUR - approx 210k USD for an Engineering role. Thats quite competitive for a base salary, as high as max ICT5 Staff base at Apple Munich.
- pimeys 24d ago
  And 180k in Germany, even in Berlin is pretty good. You are living a very good life with that salary.
  - tecleandor 24d ago
    That's like top 1% salary for Germany. Maybe 3% if you count family units, or 0.5% for individual taxpayers. I'd say that's pretty good.
    - pimeys 23d ago
      Yeah, and buying a house is still kind of out of reach with this income if you don't start paying your mortgage whey you're 20something...
      - tecleandor 23d ago
        Yep, at least in my case (Spain), given the price of the houses and that banks are giving mortgages for 70-80% of the value, tops, you better have 100K in the bank for the down payment if you want to live in a relatively big city. So even with a good salary, is difficult to buy a house.
- cmrdporcupine 23d ago
  Beats 90% of Canadian software engineer salaries. If I wasn't tied down with 2 border collies, a chicken, a cat, and, uh, wife and kids, I'd jump to that in an instant. German quality of life is still pretty good despite all their complaining.
- 3748488448 23d ago
  no one makes this in Germany
swiftcoder 24d ago
> Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive :-/ Does the US position come with 5 weeks paid vacation? When the US position gets hit with layoffs, do you still have comprehensive healthcare and unemployment coverage? Yes, EU software Eng salaries are a lot lower than their US equivalents, but quite a lot of folks are happy having a top 5% salary in their own county, without all the stresses and risks of working in the US. As a concrete example, a few years back it leaked that Dan Abramov's (very decent) London salary was half what his US peers earned. Didn't seem to bother the man much at all...
- chrocni380 24d ago
  > Does the US position come with 5 weeks paid vacation? When the US position gets hit with layoffs, do you still have comprehensive healthcare and unemployment coverage? Work a US job for 4 months, quit, take the next 8 months for holiday/vacation, and you still save more money than a European SWE. Hey, the 2010s are calling, they want the trope “BuT eUrOpE hAs pAiD lEaVe” back. Europe in 2026 (France, Germany, UK, Estonia, etc). What a joke. Nobody in the world respects them. At least the US has jobs and a military. Not as good as before, but better than Europe.
  - tecleandor 24d ago
    Ah yeah, let me know about your healthcare too, specially after you quit that job. And unemployment. And public services. And scientific entities. And general cost of living. Good you have the military to spend a trillion a year in contractors.
    - woah 23d ago
      You would pay $0 for your healthcare premiums since you would qualify for Medi-Cal
  - swiftcoder 23d ago
    > Work a US job for 4 months, quit, take the next 8 months for holiday/vacation, and you still save more money than a European SWE. Let's assume for the sake of argument that you have a decent software job in the Bay Area, so you earn somewhere in the region of $350k. That little 4 month stint earns you just $116k (since quitting after 4 months means you'll have to return any signing bonus). Now in the Bay Area your median mortgage is around $3,500/month, so with modest living expenses we're talking a burn of about $5,500/month, meaning you need to spend about $66,000 to cover the year. Plus $17,000 in state and federal taxes, you're now down to a cushion of 33k/year. That's assuming, of course, that you are happy sending your kids to public school in a dodgy district (private school fees alone would wipe you out, as would the mortgages in a good public school district). The math doesn't math here chief
benhurmarcel 24d ago
That's pretty high for engineering in France though. Most engineers by far are way below that there, this is top management level.
scotty79 24d ago
> Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive. It probably means they don't, they just do their own thing how they see fit.
santiagobasulto 23d ago
I was going to reply with "shit americans say" until I realize you're based in Paris. Isn't 90k a very good salary even for an expensive city like Paris? If it's not, MAN i'm out of touch with reality. In Italy 90K is great even in Milan.
- dzogchen 23d ago
  Yes it is...
tensor 23d ago
I'd say "not being in the US" is a pretty massive selling point.
rcarmo 23d ago
Also, no remote postings in Europe is just stupid.

by tasoeur 24d ago

kome 24d ago

some people would rather live in paris than los angels or san francisco (and rightly so, if you ask me)...

tasoeur 24d ago
I actually live in Paris and get your point, but at some point you have to face the reality of the market/industry and really try your best to get good folks to join, especially in the current climate where US researchers may be looking for greener pastures.
- Towaway69 24d ago
  > researchers may be looking for greener pastures. Is that still a thing? Or have those would leave have left, after all, it's been ~6 years of Trump already.
  - clarionbell 24d ago
    Sort of yes. But it's nowhere near as much as some would like to believe. It mostly concerns those who have unclear immigration status, had their funding cut off, or don't care about money. Now, that is quite a lot of people. But not nearly enough to reverse decades of brain drain.
    - Towaway69 23d ago
      > unclear immigration status, had their funding cut off, or don't care about money. Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. I thought this would be more to do with politics. So we’ll end up with ex-US folks starting up those European companies that decouple Europe from US tech! (Thats tongue in cheek.)
mciancia 24d ago
But you should be able to hire most of the people you want, not just some that happen to pick Paris. Also, if given a choice of 90k eur in Paris vs let's say 2m usd in US I'm pretty sure suddenly most of the issues people have with US would suddenly disappear ;)
eloisant 24d ago
US software companies (Google, Meta, MS, etc) have offices in Paris and they pay way more than that. Especially if you take into account total comp (Mistral is private so any stocks you get are "locked" until IPO or sell out) Yes 90k is more than most French software companies pay, but the salary needs to be competitive with those US companies.
- jongjong 24d ago
  When I was in Germany a few years ago, I was browsing jobs available in France and most software development jobs were under $55K USD. I don't know how you're supposed to survive on that. You can probably make more money as a waiter. Germany is not so great either in that sense though at least in crypto sector, the pay was reasonable... Though as a job it was total BS. UK was pretty good at some point (though all the really good jobs were gate-kept by IR35 regulations), The Netherlands was pretty good (especially contract roles thanks to big tax discounts for foreigners). But IMO, one of the best countries outside of the US for software work has been Australia. I actually came back to Australia because of it. Though it's not quite as lucrative today but it's certainly still much better paid than France and has potential. That said, if you want to do your own startup and you do not have special business connections or pedigree, then the US is the only real option IMO. I think it comes down to easy money. Easy come, easy go. To be rich enough to invest in startups in France, you need to be born into old money or be a complete freak of nature. These kinds of people don't part with their money easily. They need a guaranteed return and they can't rely on any media channel to bring traffic. If you live outside of the US, all media channels are essentially working against you; you can literally feel that and so everything is riskier. It's like playing the same game with a massive handicap.
  - Bayart 24d ago
    > When I was in Germany a few years ago, I was browsing jobs available in France and most software development jobs were under $55K USD. I don't know how you're supposed to survive on that. You can probably make more money as a waiter. Salaries are calculated differently in France, Germany, US etc. For example working in Germany you're likely to fork a huge amount monthly to your health insurance. It actually makes it difficult to negotiate comp across borders. $55k USD brut in France is around 2.8k EUR / month after taxes in France, which counts as the upper bracket of Middle Class in most of the country outside of Paris. Paltry when you're used to tech comps but decent for the vast majority of people here. On the whole I agree that it's not competitive regionally or globally, and as for myself I'd leave for Switzerland or Australia if I had the opportunity.

kraftman 24d ago

There's more to life than money past a certain point, I'd rather live in the Alps on a lower salary.

selfawareMammal 24d ago
You dont even live in the Alps with 90K lmao. And if you expect top performance, you should expect top salary. Or at least something competitive. 90K for a company like Mistral is a bit embarrassing.
- kraftman 24d ago
  I literally do.
- qnpnpmqppnp 24d ago
  €90k is in the top 5% salaries in France. Of course you can live in the Alps, or anywhere else in France for that matter.
- kome 24d ago
  > You dont even live in the Alps with 90K lmao. this comment is insane...
  - alansaber 24d ago
    To be fair, Switzerland is really expensive.
    - kome 23d ago
      ok, but besides the fact 90k is absolutely fine for CH as well, and incredibly good for italy, france or austria.
    - desterothx 23d ago
      The alps are shared between Switzerland, Italy and France. You can live in the French alps a lot cheaper than in Switzerland

pkos98 24d ago

In Germany AFAIK their Senior base salary ceiling is ~ 180k EUR - approx 210k USD for an Engineering role. Thats quite competitive for a base salary, as high as max ICT5 Staff base at Apple Munich.

pimeys 24d ago
And 180k in Germany, even in Berlin is pretty good. You are living a very good life with that salary.
- tecleandor 24d ago
  That's like top 1% salary for Germany. Maybe 3% if you count family units, or 0.5% for individual taxpayers. I'd say that's pretty good.
  - pimeys 23d ago
    Yeah, and buying a house is still kind of out of reach with this income if you don't start paying your mortgage whey you're 20something...
    - tecleandor 23d ago
      Yep, at least in my case (Spain), given the price of the houses and that banks are giving mortgages for 70-80% of the value, tops, you better have 100K in the bank for the down payment if you want to live in a relatively big city. So even with a good salary, is difficult to buy a house.
cmrdporcupine 23d ago
Beats 90% of Canadian software engineer salaries. If I wasn't tied down with 2 border collies, a chicken, a cat, and, uh, wife and kids, I'd jump to that in an instant. German quality of life is still pretty good despite all their complaining.
3748488448 23d ago
no one makes this in Germany

swiftcoder 24d ago

> Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive :-/ Does the US position come with 5 weeks paid vacation? When the US position gets hit with layoffs, do you still have comprehensive healthcare and unemployment coverage? Yes, EU software Eng salaries are a lot lower than their US equivalents, but quite a lot of folks are happy having a top 5% salary in their own county, without all the stresses and risks of working in the US. As a concrete example, a few years back it leaked that Dan Abramov's (very decent) London salary was half what his US peers earned. Didn't seem to bother the man much at all...

chrocni380 24d ago
> Does the US position come with 5 weeks paid vacation? When the US position gets hit with layoffs, do you still have comprehensive healthcare and unemployment coverage? Work a US job for 4 months, quit, take the next 8 months for holiday/vacation, and you still save more money than a European SWE. Hey, the 2010s are calling, they want the trope “BuT eUrOpE hAs pAiD lEaVe” back. Europe in 2026 (France, Germany, UK, Estonia, etc). What a joke. Nobody in the world respects them. At least the US has jobs and a military. Not as good as before, but better than Europe.
- tecleandor 24d ago
  Ah yeah, let me know about your healthcare too, specially after you quit that job. And unemployment. And public services. And scientific entities. And general cost of living. Good you have the military to spend a trillion a year in contractors.
  - woah 23d ago
    You would pay $0 for your healthcare premiums since you would qualify for Medi-Cal
- swiftcoder 23d ago
  > Work a US job for 4 months, quit, take the next 8 months for holiday/vacation, and you still save more money than a European SWE. Let's assume for the sake of argument that you have a decent software job in the Bay Area, so you earn somewhere in the region of $350k. That little 4 month stint earns you just $116k (since quitting after 4 months means you'll have to return any signing bonus). Now in the Bay Area your median mortgage is around $3,500/month, so with modest living expenses we're talking a burn of about $5,500/month, meaning you need to spend about $66,000 to cover the year. Plus $17,000 in state and federal taxes, you're now down to a cushion of 33k/year. That's assuming, of course, that you are happy sending your kids to public school in a dodgy district (private school fees alone would wipe you out, as would the mortgages in a good public school district). The math doesn't math here chief

benhurmarcel 24d ago

That's pretty high for engineering in France though. Most engineers by far are way below that there, this is top management level.

scotty79 24d ago

> Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive. It probably means they don't, they just do their own thing how they see fit.

santiagobasulto 23d ago

I was going to reply with "shit americans say" until I realize you're based in Paris. Isn't 90k a very good salary even for an expensive city like Paris? If it's not, MAN i'm out of touch with reality. In Italy 90K is great even in Milan.

dzogchen 23d ago
Yes it is...

tensor 23d ago

I'd say "not being in the US" is a pretty massive selling point.

rcarmo 23d ago

Also, no remote postings in Europe is just stupid.