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Windows 11's "special" developer edition looks like another marketing misfire
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 28d agoThey could stop hogging so much memory. My work laptop was fine on Win 10 and on Win 11 it began swapping to disk.
- floro 28d agoUnused RAM is wasted RAM. And swap usage is not an issue either unless there's a lot of swap in/out happening.
- fishgoesblub 28d ago> Unused RAM is wasted RAM A terrible phrase constantly used in defense of bloated, wasteful programs using gobs of memory to achieve nothing.
- nothercastle 28d agoIt’s true unused it wasted but unfortunately what it’s used for is decided by corporate flavor of the month so garbage one drive, teams and Gemini builds eat all the ram that would be better used by other applications people actually like
- mc32 28d agoIndeed. They can’t know what other applications you need to run. So they more frugal the OS and application, the more available for other software apps.
- deleted 28d ago[deleted]
- wolpoli 28d agoI was quite surprised that this phrase, which papers over nuances in how operating systems classify and manage memory, was posted by someone who studied CS.
- floro 27d agoPlease educate yourself how this is false https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/
- bena 28d agoIf I’m encoding video or running a database, sure. But the OS should be as lean as possible because the entire reason is to run other programs.
- PorciiVorbesc 28d agoThe windows kernel is smart enough to free RAM for the highest demanding app like rendering or video editing, even if the idle is high. That's why there's no accurate 1:1 comparison between operating systems. Windows, MacOS, and LInux will treat physical memory very differently bot at idle, and during heavy use. Sure, Win 11 has a lot of bloat and poorly coded Web apps that should be removed or rewritten in native, but the kernel is still top notch at managing even limited memory and handling OOM cases.
- skydhash 28d agoThe thing with windows is that there is no idle state, something is always busy with the CPU/hogging ram. With Linux I can have like 98% idle and the system taking 2Gb out of my 8gb of ram, but with windows, the system is more like 30% cpu and more than 4GB of currently being used ram.
- PorciiVorbesc 28d agoIf idle on Win 11 already pre-caches most-used apps like Chrome/FF and not on Linux, how can you accurately measure what true idle is? You have to remember the Win (and MacOS) kernel is tuned to consumer desktop user use cases, while Linux kernel is tuned to server/DC use-cases. That's why ~15 years ago when I was in uni, you'd get audio stutter when playing music/movies of spinning rust on linux while torrenting file on the same HDD, and not on Windows/MacOS, due to different queuing algorithms used thet prioritised audio decoding tasks over everything else, which Linux kernel out of the box didn't, unless you tinkered and changed it.
- skydhash 28d ago> You have to remember the Win (and MacOS) kernel is tuned to consumer desktop user use cases, while Linux kernel is tuned to server/DC use-cases. I don’t mind the kernel doing kernel things. The issue is system services and other software that are either unnecessary or badly coded. You can’t disable them because of “reasons” and they’re just wasting your time and your electricity.
- Dylan16807 28d ago> Unused RAM is wasted RAM This applies to caches, and it applies to time versus memory tradeoffs in expensive algorithms. Win11 wastes a lot of memory on neither.
- asdff 28d agoUntil you open something else
- floro 27d agoThe whole point is to cache frequently used things in RAM so when you open this other thing it loads faster
- theandrewbailey 28d agoThese days, swapping to disk means your SSD wears out and dies faster. That's very much an issue.
- cute_boi 28d agoOr one can simply optimize the memory?
- floro 27d agohttps://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ Please educate yourself on how this is exactly how you optimise RAM usage
- cute_boi 26d agoOver-allocating something you never use just to store it on disk to improve performance is like using the MacroSlop strategy of preloading Excel, lol. I’ve probably written more kernels, fuzzers, and low-level drivers than anyone on Hacker News, so please don’t tell me this strategy is helping these days. This just give excuse to developer to not optimize their app because it just works.
- floro 26d agoYou clearly didn't bother to read the website I linked... Please educate yourself.
- abirch 28d agoI refuse to use windows at home. I'll use it at work, but it's either Xubuntu or MacOS at home. I couldn't be happier.
- yipinwong 28d agoI have no choice but to use Windows at home due to 200+ Steam games I own. Many work only on Windows only. Emulation don't work for most on Linux. I got a separate PC just for linux btw, so no biggie
- MaulingMonkey 28d agoI shelled out for a Steam Machine (SteamOS ≈ Arch Linux.) I do gamedev, and I figured having a test machine was a decent enough excuse for a purchase. It's working suprisingly well for the games I'm actually playing. They're playing better than on my last Windows desktop tower, even, presumably due to a better GPU. Granted, catalogs vary - anti-cheat and DRM may not play nice, and EvE Online wasn't stable until I switched the renderer from D3D12 to D3D11 (and I haven't tried playing with multiple accounts) - but you might revisit Linux gaming if it's been awhile since you last have. The enshittification of Windows has finally driven me to the point where Linux compatability is going to start affecting my Steam purchases.
- mrec 28d agoOut of interest, are you doing any dev on the SM? If so, how is it for that?
- MaulingMonkey 28d agoOnly a token test amount so far. The root filesystem is read-only by default, but without the whole Nix ecosystem, which is a little awkward (can't install packages even as root without changing that.) On the other hand, it comes with `distrobox` preinstalled, so it's easy enough to spin up a container and use that (including package installation.) My raw notes are here: https://github.com/MaulingMonkey/notes/blob/master/programming/platforms/steam%20machine.md#developer https://github.com/MaulingMonkey/notes/blob/master/programmi...
- martheen 28d agoWhen I read the headline of the announcement article, I thought it would be in the spirit of https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-drive/ https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-drive/, instead it's just advertising a series of device that most devs won't ever buy. Devs might be bad at marketing to general public, but if the target market are devs, run the ads through them first. Even if they're in a building with no dev at all, surely one can be reached through an internal email.
- ryandrake 28d agoIt's just cover to justify the future claim: "See? Nobody wants a distraction-free, decrappified Windows. Nobody bought it..."
- kwertyoowiyop 27d agoWindows Reduced Distraction Edition
- lightbendover 28d ago[dead]
- tempodox 28d ago> If Project Zenith is a "distraction-free Windows experience," does that imply that everyone else is using nerfed experiences with needless distractions? Yes.
- majormajor 28d agoWell, I mean, no. It could mean that regular Windows has things that could be distracting for developer workflows but might have other legitimate purposes. Like when a Porsche 911 trim strips out the AC and stereo to provide a "distraction free driver experience" that doesn't mean that those things are "needless" to everyone else. (Though in truth Windows 11 is full of dumb crap, but that doesn't mean we have to try---and fail!---to play clever lawyerball word games to make the point.) (And honestly, I don't think MS's idea of a good developer experience is going to be the same as mine or most of HN's. There are entire other worlds of 'development' out there.)
- ahartmetz 28d agoThe funny thing is: They have plenty of more-or-less standard issue developers at MSFT, they'd just need to ask them.
- Banditoz 28d agoDon't they just use Macs at Microsoft?
- Grimblewald 27d agomy gripe is, isnt this filling the role pro was supposed to fill?
- 7bit 27d agoBad example. AC and radio don't turn themselves on every time yu start the car. The typically need to be turned on. Distractions in Windows are turned ON BY DEFAULT, like MS store suggestions or MS edge forcing you through the first run wizard, etc etc
- deleted 28d ago[deleted]
- ptrl600 28d agoDo they mean like, a version of Windows where I don't have to go into folder options and click "show file extensions"?
- gerdesj 28d agoWindows does care about file extensions but is mildly embarrassed about it, hence the "show" default that has existed from Win 8 (?) onwards. Linux and co generally work with magic bytes which is just another way of doing file formats. Is it better to signify your file format with a .ext or otherwise? I find myself turning on file extensions if I have to use Windows and on Linux, I don't care and it just works. I think the UIs for Linux are better. I think that MS are hung up on trying to suggest their stuff so it gets in the way a bit. On Linux, you just get the best option based on what is installed.
- sph 27d agoI have gone and ticked the “stop hiding file extensions” since they were introduced in ~98 (or was it Windows 95?) When antivirus weren’t widespread, having a person click on a virus was just so easy: create a program with the icon of an image file. God forbid people learn that .exe means executable program. Learning new stuff is scary!
- zzo38computer 27d ago> I have gone and ticked the “stop hiding file extensions” since they were introduced in ~98 (or was it Windows 95?) I think Windows 95, although even selecting that option still hides some file name extensions (such as ".lnk"). However, I have found that it is possible to use the registry editor to force all file name extensions to be displayed.
- customguy 27d agoBut even on system where they aren't needed they're useful IMO, for me as a user. Magic bytes mean you have to seek into each file, and if you care about file types, it means anything that lists files has to do that.
- internet2000 28d agoSo what is it, concretely? Default settings and bundled software? Like Lenovo bloatware but from Microsoft?
- amlib 28d agoMaybe the main feature they are not telling anyone is that it slurps your valuable code bases faster in order to feed their AI? I guess usurping github ain't enough.
- conorcleary 28d agoThey should go do version 9 like a fork with hindsight
- quantivaia 28d ago[flagged]
- throwuxiytayq 28d agoDevelopers, developers, developers. Your dream developer experience is already here; since I've switched to Linux, I feel like I'm experiencing Linux psychosis. It's such a breath of fresh air. I've reconfigured my entire workflow around terminal programs and every action feels instant, even with maxed out power saving settings. There's an upfront time investment, sure - a weekend or two to set things up and figure out how you want the basics configured - but I've found myself immediately productive, and after that it's all compound interest, baby. Over the next few months, I've pushed my muscle memory to a point that's completely unachievable on Windows. Another big advantage of the platform is that some Linux distributions will come bundled absolutely no software, saving you from having to uninstall and disable annoying bloat you have no use for. Additionally, you don't even need to install WSL, because you've already got the L.
- sznio 27d agoIf I can install Linux on these unified-memory PCs, then it sounds quite cool. I wouldn't wish any developer to be forced to use W11 though. I'm already miserable enough at work, I just use a VM with Fedora and W11 is just a bootloader.
- vazark 27d agoHave they considered providing unconditional support to WINE and releasing a Linux distro?