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Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight
- ChrisArchitect 1mo agoDiscussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49580369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49580369
- mnewme 1mo agoAwesome
- nolok 1mo agoCongratulation and great news ! For Europe, but also the world, space access is one of those frontiers we can (and I believe will) see truly opened in my lifetime and I find that truly awesome. Interestingly there still seems to be a difference in approach between "few launch, expected to go well" in europe and "many launch as trial and error" in the US, with other countries falling somewhere in between those two limits, it's often seen as a threat here of "if we don't do more more often we won't make any progress" but ignoring the economical side (and I think it's fair, given than even with massive subsidies SpaceX is not financially viable until it feed itself through Starlink) it's been a remarkable series of years for new European vehicules launch success. Also one thing I have to point: > Europe now has sovereign access to space. I understand what is meant here, and of course said company need to push that forward, but French Guyana is full french territory, it's not even a foreign territory. It's part of the EU (known as the outermost region of the European Union), EU law applies, it's citizens are EU citizens, EU citizens from other countries can freely move and work and live there ... It's technicaly more EU than Norway. But less Europe than Norway, sure. Still, on the context of "sovereign access", I would argue both side of that coin have their attributes, and for long term sovereignty I would prefer EU territory instead of "inside-europe-Belarus" for exemple.
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- nolok 1mo agoEh hard disagree there, the way I see it there is no more squabble between France and Poland than there is between Texas and California or between Spain and Romania compared to New york and Virginia. In fact, I would say we have LESS of it. The only thing we need is to actually stop ignoring the forest for the tree and see that the world moved on beyond our petty local borders and we're lucky enough to have found a system where we're stronger together, to the point where we matter in the world and can't be ignored or pushed aside, while also protecting the core of each of our own cultural societies (langugage, history, ...), and only fools would let that go because they're too close minded to see it.
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- frikskit 1mo agoThat was not a useful metaphor, but by all means try again (if you want) and teach us something interesting (and concrete) based on your unique experience.
- embedding-shape 1mo agoMust be incredibly humbling experience to not realize EU is a union of independent countries and the US is a federation of states until you work for one of the delegations, wasn't it? Most of us pick up on that even without professional experience about it.
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- TitaRusell 1mo agoFrench Guyana is in South America and our Burger friends have reinstated the Monroe doctrine.
- nolok 1mo agoYeah but although the crazies in charge have been very negative toward our continent and my country (Frace), they've also steered very clear away from any seizing claim about any of our territory, despite going against anyone from Canada to Denmark to Spain to UK, to ... Deep down, we're an annoyingly arrogant little country with delusions of grandeur salivating at the thought to prove to our EU neighbors how strong we meant it when we said we would accept to oppose the US in case of military attack and I think they knew we may actually mean it and not back down when it start (see also: Denmark leak about how France was essentially willing to provide whatever to help defend Greenland). I'm not saying this in a "we're awesome" way, more like a hard case of the TACO, bullies avoid the ones who punch back. Nothing would be happening in Iran right now if they had not believed in advance Iran would lie down like Venezuela did after losing its leader, though most would say confusing the two situation makes no sense. Ultimately this is so much lost time and resources for nothing of value, it's so utterly disappointing...
- wallst07 1mo agoWho is "(Frace)" and what are you talking about? You all need to watch actions more than what people say.
- bojan 1mo ago> Deep down, we're an annoyingly arrogant little country with delusions of grandeur salivating at the thought to prove to our EU neighbors how strong we meant it when we said we would accept to oppose the US in case of military attack and I think they knew we may actually mean it and not back down when it start (see also: Denmark leak about how France was essentially willing to provide whatever to help defend Greenland). And the rest of Europe loves you for that! But we're also very worried if that'll all remain so if Le Pen or Mélenchon win next year.
- sisve 1mo agoDid you just compare Belarus and Norway now? Is Inside-Europe-Norway not better then Belarus? I would consider us (norway) a stable and good partner to the EU. Give us 25 years and we will join EU if it still exists:)
- nolok 1mo agoNo, what you say is quite literally my argument; that the "Europe" is not the argument I value by itself for sovereignty
- yostrovs 1mo agoFrench Guyana is occupied territory. That's pretty clear. And so it should be deoccupied and the locals will decide whether to use their land as "sovereign' launch port by Europeans.
- cdavid 1mo agoThe population rejected more autonomy with a large majority (>70 %) in the last referundum.
- yostrovs 1mo agoIt's not France. The locals like that France gives them goodies so they vote for more goodies and France gives more goodies so they vote accordingly.
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- mpweiher 1mo agoSo you are opposed to self-determination. Glad we cleared that up. Who then gets to decide? You?
- bilbo0s 1mo ago>Who then gets to decide? You? It's a new world. He who has the biggest guns makes the rules. I don't like it, but in the Caribbean [probably throughout the world] these days, you really are dealing with the raw realities of power in a way you didn't have to previously. I doubt the EU has the stomach to confront Trump. And French Guiana is not Africa, there will be no China coming to save them.
- mpweiher 1mo agoI doubt that HN user yostrovs is Trump.
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- ifwinterco 1mo ago[dead]
- teiferer 1mo ago> > Europe now has sovereign access to space. > I understand what is meant here, and of course said company need to push that forward, but French Guyana is full french territory, it's not even a foreign territory. Does French Guyana have a usable space rocket? Cause if not then you are completely missing the point of what "space access" means here. It's not about a spot from where to start the rockets. It's about being able to build them. No matter French Guyana or Norway or central Berlin. And that's obvious to everybody including yourself, so why you opened the French-nationalist angle here with lots of angry messages with all sorts of politics is unclear to everybody watching.
- mpweiher 1mo ago> Does French Guyana have a usable space rocket? Yes: the Ariane rockets. "French Guyana" is part of France, which is part of the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Guiana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Guiana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_(rocket_family) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_(rocket_family)
- teiferer 29d agoOk, then why don't they launch from Norway and why is the article considered news even though the whole European package already exists?
- mpweiher 29d ago1. Who is "they"? Isar Aerospace and Arianespace are distinct entities. 2. Isar Aerospace is the first fully private European company (a startup) to do this. Arianespace and the Ariane rockets have heavy state/ESA involvement. 3. It is the first launch to orbit from geographically European soil. French Guiana is politically part of France, but geographically obviously part of South America. 4. Why would everyone have to launch from the same place, in your esteemed opinion? Why are some US payloads launched from California, some from Florida, and soon some from Texas and Louisiana? 5. Are all launch locations equally suitable for all orbits? Are all orbits equally suitable for all missions? 6. Norway is a lot closer to the rest of Europe than French Guiana is. 7. Why was SpaceX newsworthy, particularly on a startup-centric site, when NASA already exists?
- inemesitaffia 1mo ago>massive subsidies Misinformation
- eblume 1mo agoI was curious, so I checked. I don't know if this is a reputable source: https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/space-exploration-technologies-spacex https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/space-explor... If that's correct, then yeah, I struggle to find much to be upset about with this list. $106M federal loan against what they've built feels, I don't know, about correct for a telecom. Light even. The tax abatement stuff sounds gross but not surprising. (There are other forms of subsidy than this list would show, though! So, yeah, always going to be an argument.)
- inemesitaffia 29d agoThe ~$106 million was an EXIM loan for an Israeli satellite launch. (Export financing) https://www.exim.gov/news/ex-im-bank-approves-1054-million-loan-finance-spacex-launch https://www.exim.gov/news/ex-im-bank-approves-1054-million-l... Unless the solar was also supplied by SpaceX (possible;unlikely) that amount doesn't reflect what SpaceX got i.e SpaceX gets it's cash immediately and the debtor is the Israeli launch company. (Does that constitute a subsidy to SpaceX or the foreign company?) The launch failed and SpaceX was on the hook for the money or a replacement launch as covered here https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/10/26/israels-spacecom-books-launch-with-spacex-using-pre-paid-amos-6-credits/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/10/26/israels-spacecom-books... There was also financing for other launches like this https://spacenews.com/ex-im-bank-finances-spacex-launch-deal/ https://spacenews.com/ex-im-bank-finances-spacex-launch-deal... and I wonder why it wasn't included. I also wonder if Spacecom, the Israeli provider didn't get other EXIM loans for its launches. SpaceX has been trying to get actual federal subsidies for ages but has been failing. (RDOF, BEAD) As for the tax abatement, it's the exact tax abatement other companies have got in the past, not something custom created for SpaceX. SpaceX spent ~$7 million a day before swallowing xAi (monumental error IMO) I don't know what amount is supposed to be massive compared to its size.
- NetMageSCW 1mo agoSpaceX has hadn’t any subsidies in a long time and has had less in subsidies than Ariane or Isra, so what are you criticizing?
- FpUser 1mo ago>"I would prefer EU territory instead of "inside-europe-Belarus" for exemple." Unless Great Orange or his successor/s would start having ideas
- arifitworld 1mo ago[flagged]
- gagan2020 1mo agoThere will be some chain reaction up there in near future, in our lifetime only. Congratulation to the team. These milestones are necessary to advancement of human race as we need new planets to occupy. But, we needed clear path going forward. I am both pro to advancement but with caution kind of guy.
- amelius 1mo agoLet's first be a competitor to Musk's short term commercial plans.
- gagan2020 1mo agoIt's a race but who will bell the cat and be impartial? That should be the question.
- LM358 1mo ago>we need new planets to occupy We absolutely do not
- gagan2020 1mo agoThat's open question for humanity. I respect both sides of it but I am little more pro to residences in other planets as we are on tech breakthrough on limitation of Earth. Now, surviving means occupying other planets. However, these are just my thoughts you can have different.
- jimnotgym 1mo agoCongratulations ISAR Edit: it should be Isar not ISAR This is a huge achievement and every person involved should be very proud. Please oblige me by not writing anything political in reply, let's just celebrate!
- nullderef 1mo agoIt’s Isar, not ISAR. It’s the name of the river that crosses Munich (which I love) :)
- jimnotgym 1mo agoThank you for your correction. That has been a nice addition to my German geography. It looks like the people of Munich really enjoy their river in a way we can't enjoy ours in the UK, due to pollution.
- etienne89 1mo agoThey could make their name an acronym in the future: “International Space Agency for Rockets” ;)
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- tgv 1mo agoThis might even influence today's election in Sachsen. With a bit of luck, it could turn a few voters to a more optimistic world view.
- mgrandl 1mo agoSachsen-Anhalt != Sachsen . And I think voters there are too far gone…
- baxtr 1mo agoAlso, they have roughly 1/2 of Berlin's population in the entire state.
- dgellow 1mo agoBut the impact of an AFD win in that Bundesland would be terrible for the whole country. A bit long (45min) but this video from Simplicissimus goes into it in details: https://youtu.be/N2b1y9GAF48?si=1_L80z1PTXENkXy2 https://youtu.be/N2b1y9GAF48?si=1_L80z1PTXENkXy2
- tgv 1mo agoSorry, I knew the full name, but overlooked the fact that shortening it turned it into another state's name.
- sajithdilshan 1mo agoWhy would it influence the voters in Saxony-Anhalt? The voters are mainly voting AfD because all the other old parties have failed them miserably since the reunification and they don't have any other alternative, because voting for the same parties expecting a different result/future would be insanity.
- ahartmetz 1mo agoThe east has never been economically very strong, it used to be huge feudal-style farms and a bit of high-tech industry (planes, optics, trains, electronics in the 1930s). Not too different from now. Then there was the GDR which made things much worse. It's not really West Germany that caused the weak economy of the East Germany. The handling of reunification did suck, but you can't just will a strong industrial base into existence neither.
- kevinkatzke 1mo agoAmazing achievement!
- hn9zmdcaou 1mo agoThe restraint here is admirable
- wyrank 1mo ago[dead]
- pyrale 1mo agoTheir press release seems to center on: > Europe now has sovereign access to space. [...] Customers around the world now have a sovereign launch option at their disposal. They apparently try very hard to ignore Arianespace.
- moogly 1mo agoI think the missing word there might be "private", because there's also Esrange (for smaller satellites as of now).
- ph4rsikal 1mo agoArianspace launches from French Guiana while a French commune is not really close to the actual continent of Europe.
- wasfgwp 29d agoFrench Guiana is in the EU though. While Norway is not.
- mrweasel 1mo agoThe media has been struggling on how to word this. Danish media tried labeling it as "the first orbital launch from Europe. Which is wrong, because the Plesetsk Cosmodrome exists. It's also not the first orbital launch from the EU, because Norway isn't in the EU. Using "from western Europe" sound like your trying to hard to make it special. "First commercial space company to successfully deliver satellites into orbit, from the European continent" is probably the most correct title while remaining fairly interesting.
- ButlerianJihad 1mo agoGeographic Qualifiers https://m.xkcd.com/2901/ https://m.xkcd.com/2901/
- ronvara61 1mo agoDoes someone know if they are planning to do a reusable rocket?
- sajithdilshan 1mo agoCongrats to Isar Aerospace. If any nation in Europe that can start a new space frontier, that would be the Germans and I hope Isar would get strong support from the Bavarian state to be a neck-on-neck competitor to SpaceX.
- msdz 1mo agoAgreed, but do you think either of the two federal/state governments would even have enough support material available, whether in the form of capital or otherwise (i.e. contracts), to give to Isar Aerospace that would enable them to compete with (at current valuation) a giant like SpaceX?
- sajithdilshan 1mo agoBavaria is one of the most richest (if not the most) state in Germany. By GDP alone it's the 7th largest economy in Europe (https://www.vbw.com/int/About-us/Facts-about-Bavaria/index.jsp https://www.vbw.com/int/About-us/Facts-about-Bavaria/index.j...). Of course they have money to support Isar and they should do it to diversify their economy and break the heavy dependency on auto manufacturers.
- msdz 1mo ago(As a Bavarian,) I’m acutely aware of the state’s economy – but my point is that SpaceX has an even bigger economy behind it, if the two were to actually be compared or compete. Good point re/ depending on auto makers, though. That also applies to all of Germany…
- ben_w 29d agoBigger economy, yes by about 10x. But despite the spectacle, SpaceX's actual expenses have been around 0.3-0.4% of German GDP in recent years. It's priorities rather than absolute costs that matter here. Germany could absolutely do all of SpaceX as almost a rounding error, but probably has better things for that money to get spent on.
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- OrvalWintermute 1mo ago[flagged]
- NetMageSCW 1mo agoSpaceX is incredibly cheaper than Isar per pound, but if you only need a couple thousand pounds lifted, unless a RideShare or Transporter mission is available and suitable, you won’t by buying a SpaceX launch for $15 million.
- doodlebugging 1mo agoYou seem like the kind of person who probably gets a rise from seeing all those mildly penis orbital vehicles lifting off.
- Vishal_Max 1mo agoI really like seeing new aerospace companies, and i really hope humans go interstellar by 2050
- NetMageSCW 1mo agoLOL
- aeve890 1mo agoLmao even. Interstellar in <30 years? come on.
- Vishal_Max 29d ago[dead]
- doodlebugging 1mo agoI agree. There's a nice list of humans that I would love to see go interstellar.
- 8note 1mo agothis seems a bit ambitious, considering that Voyager just left the solar system a permanent self sufficient colony on antarctica is a bit more like it, but still pretty ambitious
- Vishal_Max 29d agoIt is ambitious, and that’s what makes this so much fun to think about. Even starting a colony on Mars would be so cool.
- consumer451 1mo agoIt might interest folks to learn: > Incidentally, the early investment for Isar came from Bülent Altan, the Turkish ex-SpaceX guy who was in charge of the guidance system for Falcon-1, Falcon-9 and Dragon. [0] It turns out that Altan was an angel investor in Isar, and then co-founded VC firm Alpine Space Ventures [1] and continued to invest in Isar, among other space ventures in Europe. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49583528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49583528 [1] https://alpinespace.vc/ https://alpinespace.vc/
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- consumer451 1mo agoThat was not my point. I was thinking more along the lines of SpaceX alumni are creating a lot of really cool stuff. Tesla alumni as well. That might actually be Musk's greatest contribution, frfr. I would love to see some real data on this.
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- tomasphan 1mo agoThe enterprising Germans all left for the US to make bread
- Geof25 1mo agoSeems like they all failed miserably, when all what you can get in USA is a white rubber loaf which never goes moldy.
- ben_w 1mo agoI like variety of bread in Germany, but one of the problems is how quickly it goes mouldy. Even the cheap stuff I had as a student in Aberystwyth (coastal) from Lidl (German chain) didn't go off quite so fast so often.
- morkalork 1mo agoWhat the fuck is wrong with Americans? There's so many ignorant, racist, and all around shit takes in this thread.
- Danox 1mo agoMany Americans are in the middle of the death throes of empire the world is moving on and as an American. That’s fine with me Lake Ontario forever ha.ha.ha…
- computerdork 1mo agoAs an American, would say more than half our country actually agrees with you. Trumps approval rating has fallen to 39% while 58% disapprove. Yeah, a lot of us in the US are in just as much amazement as the rest of the world at the crazy and petty actions he takes. So we’re just bidding our time, waiting until the midterm elections to weaken the right, and then afterwards, we’ll just be counting the days until he’s out of office. Hopefully he’ll be replaced with someone who is at least halfway competent - it amazes us how almost everything the touches gets completely screwed up
- goobatrooba 1mo agoAnd i as an average European just want to say - we feel with you and all the others that are suffering through this. I don't know either what I could or would do if my own government went this route. I hope your institutions and the people's resilience will overcome this dark chapter of American history and build a better foundation on top.
- doodlebugging 1mo ago>I hope your institutions and the people's resilience will overcome this dark chapter of American history and build a better foundation on top. I hope we can scrape it all back to the bedrock foundations of our country before we rebuild anything. I don't want any foundation built on top of this festering layer of bullshit. I'm afraid we will still have foundation problems in the future if we don't examine the reasons why it failed this time and set the rebuilt country up with one less failure mode. Let's do this once. As they say where I'm from "There's only two ways to do anything - do it right or do it over."
- dzonga 1mo agocongrats - this is massive. created in 2018 and already delivering payloads to space in 2026 - less than 10 years.
- psadri 1mo agoFor anyone interested in private space flight: Wild Wild Space documentary. Also a commentary about startups in general. Separately, I've been wondering how uneven human progress is. I think we have come a long way in electronics (relays to vacuum tubes to transistor to … to an M5 chip) but in some other domains, like moving objects through space, we are basically mostly reliant on thrust generated by burning fuel (EV's are a genuine advance, but mostly due to battery tech).
- NetMageSCW 1mo agoIon thrusters say “hi!”
- amai 1mo agoThat is bad. How can they collect important data if the rocket doesn't explode at launch? Space-X does it better.
- doodlebugging 1mo agoCongratulations to those who have worked so hard to make this happen. I wish you continued success. It is great that they have realized both mission targets on their second flight attempt. I think the more options there are for access to space, the more likely we are as a species to launch useful payloads that will help us understand how we fit in and how we can better manage our own situation. It is disconcerting to see the night sky fill with constellations of satellites but there is hope that they will be used for productive purposes.
- hn_submit 1mo agoGermany having its own sovereign launch capability will eventually sink ESA.
- protocolture 1mo agoElon on the phone to Donald this morning demanding more protection.
- samtherocket 28d agoMany congratulations on the second flight. Hope that would open up a lot of opportunities for even fresh aerospace engineers too.
- samtherocket 28d agoI want to ask whether Isar’s success will create more experimental propulsion and launch-system jobs in Europe.