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Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)
- thataccount 2mo ago[flagged]
- yubblegum 2mo agoCradle of civilization is not an odd culture. Babylon, meaning Gate of God, is one of the more profoundly influential urban civilizational clusters in human history.
- thataccount 2mo ago[flagged]
- ahazred8ta 2mo agoTo an archeologist, 'civilization' refers to builders of walled cities inhabited by non-farmers with complex social sructure, division of labor, and usually some form of taxation. Highly moral hunter gatherers living in mud huts are not a 'civilization' in this context. Now you know.
- thataccount 2mo ago[flagged]
- krapp 2mo agoThe vast majority of Africans aren't hunter-gatherers living in mud huts. They have actual cities with highways and skyscrapers and everything.
- thataccount 2mo agoI'm not arguing for what is a majority. I'm talking about the large portions of Africa that still live in a hunter-gatherer situations in mud huts.
- krapp 2mo agoAfrica comprises an entire continent. There are not large portions of it (or "large swaths") where people still live as hunter-gatherers living in mud huts, for any reasonable definition of "large portion."
- thataccount 2mo ago> for any reasonable definition of "large portion." I'm sure those relatively voiceless cultures will appreciate your minimization of their contribution to the peoples of Africa.
- krapp 2mo agoYou're the one who was claiming most Africans were hut-dwelling hunter-gatherers earlier. I'm not the one minimizing anything or anyone, just stop it.
- thataccount 2mo agoUh, what? I'm not sure where you are pulling that accusation from. I said very succinctly that I was not talking about what was the majority in Africa. I think you are confused.
- jfjdkdkdkd 2mo agoits sad that your ideology allows you to tell lies without an oz of shame.
- rsynnott 2mo ago
- BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago[dead]
- tom_ 2mo agoCurious indeed that the Yale Babylonian Collection should, out of all the possible options, choose the cooking of Ancient Babylon. I wonder what we should read into this. I have some theories, but it might be dangerous for me even to mention that I have them.
- dvh 2mo agoApparently their beets looked the same as ours: > The kind of beets used in such an ancient recipe should not be different from the beets we use today, even in name. We read in Dictionary of Assyrian Botany (by Campbell Thompson, 1948) that in the ancient Mesopotamian region it was called ‘shumundar,’ it was as red as blood, and has a spinning-top shape (pp. 49, 51).
- alephnerd 2mo agoThe recipe is also similar to Hamedh [0], a delicacy in Iraqi and Baghdadi Jewish households. The only major difference is the addition of tomatoes thanks to the Columbian Exchange, and rice - which would have not been cultivated or traded in West Asia yet. On that note, in Arabic, Farsi, and Hindustani the word for Tomato is essentially shared (tumatar/tamatimu) with the English word "tomato". But anyhow, a lot of home cooking and traditional meals actually have a pretty long history. [0] - https://www.splendidtable.org/story/2000/12/12/hamad-iraqi-braised-lamb-with-beets-and-tomatoes https://www.splendidtable.org/story/2000/12/12/hamad-iraqi-b...
- amir_karbasi 2mo agoActually, in Persian, tomato is literally translated as “western plum”. This is common in our language as we usually say “western” or “foreign” as a prefix to many things that were introduced to Iran (strawberries, sit-style toilets, etc)
- alephnerd 2mo agoAppreciate the clarification!
- amir_karbasi 2mo agoMy pleasure! I also find languages very interesting and have had the opportunity to grow up in a bilingual home and learn French and German. One more fun fact is that potato is a direct translation of the French “Pomme de terre” (“sib zamani” or “ground apple”). Back to the actual topic, this is a recipe that’s definitely worth trying. Persian shallots are actually more garlicky than oniony. A great addition to lamb dishes and yogurt.
- comrade1234 2mo agoHow's the presentation? Just imagining it, it would seem that the meet would have a weird color.
- debo_ 2mo agoIt looks great. When I first saw it, I thought "this color can't be beet"
- _continuation 2mo agogood one
- LastTrain 2mo agoOMG perfect :-)
- eikenberry 2mo agoClose to a recipe on Tasting History... https://www.tastinghistory.com/recipes/babylonianlambstew https://www.tastinghistory.com/recipes/babylonianlambstew Our current favorite dinner watching along with Alton Brown.
- Rendello 2mo agoI've made this Roman recipe probably a dozen times and everyone who's tried it really likes it [1]. The strange ingredients are garum [2] and asafoetida [3]. The former is just a fish sauce, so that's not hard to substitute, but you have to find asafoetida on the Internet or at an Indian food store. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LynenQ5h2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LynenQ5h2Y 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garum 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida
- jamal-kumar 2mo agoI can usually find hing (asafoetida) in grocery stores in certain more populous parts of Canada in the spice section, it's quite a good garlic substitute for those who can't do garlic
- Rendello 2mo agoIt's used by Janes as eating root vegetables like onions or garlic is discouraged or forbidden in that religion [1]. (Un)related: onions and garlic are pretty close to each other. Chicago is named after šikaakwa, [2] the native word for the local Allium that's alternately called "wild onion" or "wild garlic" in English [3]. You can hear a similar word for onion in a different Algonquin language, Ojibwe [4]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism#Ahimsa_in_practice:_Jain_diet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism#Ahimsa_in_practice:_Ja... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Etymology_and_nicknames https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Etymology_and_nickname... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium_tricoccum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium_tricoccum 4. https://ojibwe.lib.umn.edu/main-entry/zhigaagawanzh-na https://ojibwe.lib.umn.edu/main-entry/zhigaagawanzh-na
- analog8374 2mo agoI dislike lamb but the rest sounds great. Maybe I could sub beef.
- bornfreddy 2mo agoI think the taste of their beer would have been much different from what we drink today?
- applicative 2mo agoThey certainly didn't use hops!
- 0xbadcafebee 2mo agoNutty, aromatic, yeasty, slightly sour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK4DMt8ARyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK4DMt8ARyU
- yubblegum 2mo agoI'm reading Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones' Babylon - The Biography of a Metropolis which just recently came out, and that's how I ended up hearing about Yale's culinary adventures. The book, btw, is kind of breezy in style and 'he of many LLs in his name' (Lālu-mullālu in Akkadian as suggested by my friendly AI) uses a lot of contemporary pop (nerdy) references to carry the narrative, yet very engaging and am learning a lot about this fabled city (and civilization). It sets certain records straight ...
- cantalopes 2mo agoGonna be quite challenging to get "1/2 cup of rendered sheep fat"
- jp0d 2mo agoLamb is quite popular down here in Australia. I usually keep some rendered fat from my roasts etc. Sometimes I cook other meats with it and it adds heaps of flavour. I do that with pork fat as well.
- s0rce 2mo agoif you have a good butcher they might be able to get you some that you can render, but its a hassle. I've done this for beef fat to make some british pie things.
- strken 2mo agoIn Australia where lamb is more common than in the US, it'd be pretty easy to keep the fat after roasting a lamb shoulder, or to freeze the fatty offcuts from forequarter chops and render them after I had enough.
- mermadicsolutio 2mo agoI was able to get some tail fat from a halal butcher. But never seen lamb fat anywhere else
- dyauspitr 2mo agoLamb is usually the red meat of choice, other than pork, almost everywhere besides the US.
- PeterHolzwarth 2mo agoWhat's enlightening is how astonishingly little salt is used, by our standards.
- peri-cl 2mo agoThe ingredient ratios are the Yale researchers' interpretation—they're not from the source text, https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/ancient-mesopotamian-tablet-cookbook https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/ancient-mesopota... > "Like most premodern cooking manuals, the Babylonian recipes rarely list the quantities of each ingredient, and so basic experimentation is needed to determine viable proportions for the assembly of a dough or the salting of a stew. The “experimental” approach likewise offers answers to questions that can only be addressed through trial and error. For example, many of the identifications of herbs proposed by modern scholars are based mainly on medical compendia, and some of the plants thus identified can produce an extremely bitter or perhaps pungent taste when used in food." Here's the recipes as literally translated (I used tesseract to OCR): > "Unwinding. Meat is not used. You prepare water. You add fat. (You add) kurrat, cilantro, salt as desired, leek, garlic. You pound up dried sourdough, you sift (it) and you scatter (it) over the pot before removing it." > "Stew of lamb. Meat is used. You prepare water. You add fat. You add fine-grained salt, dried barley cakes, onion, Persian shallot, and milk. [You crush] (and add) leek and garlic." > "Elamite broth. Meat is not used. You prepare water. You add fat. Dill, kurrat, cilantro, leek, and garlic bound with blood, a corresponding amount of sour milk, and (more) garlic. The (original) name (of this dish) is Zukanda." > "Tuh’u. Leg meat is used. You prepare water. You add fat. You sear. You fold in salt, beer, onion, arugula, cilantro, Persian shallot, cumin, and red’ beet, and [you crush] leek and garlic. You sprinkle coriander on top. [You add] kurrat and fresh cilantro."
- PeterHolzwarth 2mo agoThat's a great point, thanks - I didn't think about that angle.
- adrian_b 2mo agoThe original text linked by another poster says "salt as desired". So the quantity of salt is not specified in the original recipe, therefore it could be the same as any present cook would choose.
- harel 2mo agoCoincidentally this book which has been a labour of love of his creator is going into print this week: https://www.tableofgods.com https://www.tableofgods.com It's quite expensive though, but it does look amazing.
- ragazzina 2mo agoThe fact that they promote the preorder of a 200$ book without showing even a single page is crazy.
- harel 2mo agoThey were sending pages to the people on the kickstarter list, effectively crowd sourcing recipe testing. That was quite clever I thought. And their socials keep showing videos of the actual recipies etc. This is a legit book. It's just a shame that it carries that price tag. I could do with a less "beautiful" version if it was reasonably priced. Maybe a future edition.
- ragazzina 2mo agoI know I could do without Euphrates clay in my cookbook cover, that's for sure.
- mermadicsolutio 2mo agoHonestly the recipe sounds like adding beets to a regular lamb stew recipe. If I havent watch this video and saw the dish, I would think some fancy restaurant is trying to be "innovative"
- lettergram 2mo agoIf you like this, you may like the "Tasting History" YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/@TastingHistory https://www.youtube.com/@TastingHistory He basically covers a different historic dish every week ranging from the oldest recorded dishes to cafeteria food from 1990; or what they served on the Titanic, etc. It's a great channel, and covers history well.
- peri-cl 2mo agoThe source texts are available here, if anyone wants to read the literal translations: https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/ancient-mesopotamian-tablet-cookbook https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/ancient-mesopota...
- dyauspitr 2mo agoI mean, this had to be a dish for royalty or something right? How on earth that they have all of those fresh and dried ingredients on hand 4000 years ago.
- sophacles 2mo agoMost of them seem like a pretty common kitchen garden to me. And all of the plants are native to that area, or close enough that people who had been farming for a few thousand years at that point would have brought them from neighboring lands to use.
- tensor 2mo agoNo, it's common. People today have no idea how truly poor they eat. Modern fast food is essentially fake food paste.
- globular-toast 2mo agoWhich is a shame because you can eat so well today you can easily skip the dead animal carcass. They couldn't really do that back then in many places with short growing seasons.
- dyauspitr 2mo agoWhy would you skip the dead animal? That is by far the best part of every meal. PS don’t jump into the whole animal cruelty spiel. I’m aware and I agree, it’s just that I don’t care. Vegetarian food, aside from maybe the narrow slice with how the Indians prepare it, is completely unsatisfying and I’m OK with animals suffering as long as I can continue to have meat because it’s just so delicious. That being said, I would eagerly switch to lab grown meat if they can do it correctly. Vegan food on the other hand is brain dead food. I mean that literally and metaphorically. Anecdotally every vegan I’ve met seems nutritionally deficient and slow. They also go out of their way to eat food aping meat and that stuff turns out to be the most chemically processed and unhealthy stuff you could possibly imagine.
- lorenzohess 2mo agoBears,Beets
- culi 2mo agoBabylon Galactica
- johnohara 2mo agoThe Babylonian Collection was left to Yale by J.P. Morgan in 1913. His estate at the time was estimated to be worth about $68.3M ($1.59B in 2024 dollars). When I read that on his wikipedia page I thought "is that all?" I know I'm probably missing a bunch of other considerations, but geez, the 500th spot on the 2024 Forbes World's Billionaires list was shared by multiple individuals worth approximately $5.8B.
- alex-moon 2mo ago"Rocket, coriander, cumin? Somehow I doubt the Babylonians had Mexican herbs and spices." Turns out I was wrong about where these come from! All three are native to the Mediterranean/Middle East and would certainly have been used in this recipe at the time.
- lgcmo 2mo agoYou may be interested in tableofgods.com (also cool yt shorts)