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Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users
- CodesInChaos 1mo agoFor me anonymous use of Aurora never really worked, and with a google account it still works.
- thataccount 1mo ago[flagged]
- grapheneos 1mo agoIt has nothing to do with GrapheneOS. It's a problem with Aurora Store's account default enabled sharing feature. Account sharing is against Google's terms of use and they're ramping up detection and banning for it. They aren't banning Aurora Store as a Play Store client and there's no connection to GrapheneOS which doesn't include Aurora Store in the OS or our app repository.
- erikvanoosten 1mo ago[flagged]
- dxjxjdjsssb 1mo agoPlay store works just fine on GrapheneOS. All of play services run in a sandbox. You can install the Play store from the GrapheneOS App Store. In fact I'm pretty sure the GrapheneOS folks advise against Aurora Store, etc.
- imzadi 1mo agoYeah, was confused. I'm on GrapheneOS and don't even know what Aurora is.
- CodesInChaos 1mo agoIt's an alternative client app for the google store.
- himata4113 1mo agoThe entire point is so you don't have to have a google account. Aurora actually works fine if you do sign in. This is just blocking anon downloads.
- megagpt2 1mo agoMarket price for a Google account is about $1.50, you can also buy a burner SIM to set up the maximum number of accounts Google will let you with the same phone number.
- ta8903 1mo agoYou don't need a sim card to make accounts for a phone in the first place. Not sure how, but on android devices they let you make an account without giving them a phone number. Probably because even Google realizes how bad gating application installs on new phones on having a phone number would look. The problem is that even if you have separate google accounts on each android device, Google can still track you by looking at your contacts.
- iAMkenough 1mo agoAuroraStore uses a pool of burner Google Play Store accounts to facilitate anonymous downloads. This is what happens when those burner accounts get flagged.
- ranger_danger 1mo agoHow does one even create a new google account in $current_year without requiring phone verification or worse?
- megagpt2 1mo agoYou could suck it up and do the phone number verification, it usually costs around $5 for a phone number. Or you could go through the android phone sign-up process which doesn't require one. Buy a cheap android phone and keep resetting it and making a new account each time. Or you could buy an account on the grey web from someone who already did this. Should be under $2. If you are really into this you could become a phone company and own a whole block of phone numbers.
- ranger_danger 1mo agoThe whole point of avoiding the verification in my case is for privacy reasons... I don't want google or anyone else tracking what I do through the use of an account. > Or you could go through the android phone sign-up process which doesn't require one This is worse IMO because now the number is associated with that device forever. And unless I'm willing to risk my account to compromise from a future owner of the same number OR device, I must now keep both... forever. > grey web I don't want to give them my info either, nor have my account associated with sketchy individuals. > you could become a phone company I do own DID blocks but this is unhelpful because google's verification specifically requires SMS over real mobile numbers, and I'm not interested in becoming an MVNO or cellular carrier.
- megagpt2 1mo agoBad news - Google doesn't need an account to track your app downloadsm Perhaps you'd be more interested in creating a website that downloads all the apps from the play store using burner accounts and makes them easily anonymously accessible.
- savwolf 1mo agoGOS recommends play store
- ysnp 1mo agoThey suggest PlayStore if you need to get apps that are only available on the Play Store. They do not recommend it above other options, and have mentioned that they very much disapprove of Play App Signing being mandatory.
- grapheneos 1mo agoFor people using sandboxed Google Play, we strongly recommend using the sandboxed Play Store as the primary way of obtaining apps from the Play Store. We don't recommend using the Play Store as a first choice for obtaining apps.
- bushwart 1mo agoI wasn't aware GOS recommended AuroraStore.
- Cider9986 1mo agoThey don't. It's unreliable but they have fixed security issues.
- grapheneos 1mo agoWe don't recommend the Play Store as a source of apps in general. For obtaining apps from the Play Store, we primarily recommend using our sandboxed Play Store feature. Aurora Store is mainly useful for working around Play Integrity API store listing restrictions. Aurora Store can be used without the shared account feature. The shared account feature was on track to getting blocked for years and we've warned about it. Sharing accounts is against the Google terms of use and they've been ramping up their detection and banning of it. It's somewhat strange they allowed it to go on for so long. Aurora Store does still work as an alternate Play Store frontend since Google hasn't blocked that. Due to Aurora Store bypassing the Play Integrity API store listing restrictions, they may decide to take steps to hinder it. It's a very easily bypassed way of using the Play Integrity API but it harms alternative operating systems.
- JoshStrobl 1mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- g-b-r 1mo agoWith anonymous login?
- grapheneos 1mo agoLinux doesn't mean using glibc and systemd. Unlike the Android Open Source Project, SailfishOS has a largely closed source user interface and application layer.
- Cider9986 1mo agoPlay store works fine on GrapheneOS.
- grapheneos 1mo agoGrapheneOS doesn't recommend Aurora Store for apps obtainable via sandboxed Play Store. We mention it as a workaround for apps setting their Play Store listings as requiring the Play Integrity device and strong integrity levels. Aurora Store works without the default enabled account sharing feature. The account sharing feature is disallowed by Google's terms of use banning account sharing. We've warned about this very likely being banned for years and have recommended people make a purpose-specific Google account for this instead. Google often requires phone number verification for an account for anti-spam but many VoIP services work for it.
- kjander79 1mo agoI feel the title editorializes a bit too much. The thread only confirms the bug, not a specific cause yet. As sibling comments indicate, the effect on GrapheneOS users is undetermined.
- aniviacat 1mo agoFor me, the issue also only occurs sometimes. Usually I can download apps like normal.
- g-b-r 1mo agoEven in the last days? If you use anonymous accounts it seems to affect everyone, when it works it only works for a few downloads
- titularcomment 1mo agoThis is standart, and happens constantly with Invidious (youtube frontend). This happened before on AuroraOSS too. They probably just flagged the accounts and no API change or A/B testing an API change.
- kevincox 1mo agoThis also has nothing to do with GrapheneOS except for some user overlap.
- tentacleuno 1mo ago
- pyrophane 1mo agoGrapheneOS actually recommends against using Aurora and instead just using the Play Store, so this shouldn't really hurt users. For extra privacy, you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else.
- SahAssar 1mo agoHaving to have a account is absolutely a downgrade and privacy-hostile.
- DaSHacka 1mo agoAlthough the nice thing about Aurora Store is it allows you to install apps without a google account linked to your device, keeping Google Play Services signed-out. Somewhere in the FAQ GOS advertises that Play Services can be used without signing in, but they also recommend the official Play Store (which requires signing in) and explicitly don't recommend Aurora (which doesn't). Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how you can functionally use Play Services signed-out when in order to obtain those apps in the first place, you need to sign into a Google Account for Google Play. That's personally what I used Aurora for, plus as an easy way to export APK files.
- aesh2Xa1 1mo agoSome apps offer direct APK downloads from their websites. If Google Play Services is detected, they use it for push notifications. Otherwise, they fall back to an internal background connection. WhatsApp is an example. You still need to supply Play Services: GrapheneOS uses Sandboxed Google Play. LineageOS requires flashing a package like MindTheGapps. There is also microG, an open-source reimplementation of Play Services APIs.
- joekrill 1mo ago> a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else. Isn't that pretty much impossible? You need a phone number for verification, which effectively ties it to that phone number.
- 1mo ago
- kotaKat 1mo agoDidn't Epic get some kind of magic injunction saying that Google had to allow open access to the entire Play Store catalogue or something?
- megagpt2 1mo agoBut not for everyone for free. What it means is Epic, or anyone like Epic, will be able to write to Google, send a nominal amount of money, and get some API key and bare documentation which is only allowed to be used in Epic. It's a B2B commercial transaction under court-ordered terms, not an open API. Same as the Apple browser API. If you want, you can register a company "Kotakat App Store Inc" and get access to the same terms but you'll probably need to sue Google to make them give you access. Apple hasn't approved any browsers, either.
- g-b-r 1mo agoNominal being 5.000$ a year, if you mean the Play Catalog access program (https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/17117200?hl=en https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...)
- berkes 1mo agoAlso, EU is pushing towards more "open" app-stores through anti-trust. Not that it requires Google to "open up" their play-store, but that they must allow other app-stores to work on the same level. So basically allowing devs and users to move elsewhere.
- zoobab 1mo agoWell, i emailed the DMA team at the European Commission, they don't plan to do anything to Keep Android Open. Apple moved first with making a special 'sideloading' case for apps not under their control, Google is just copying what they did. No more free sideloading.
- megagpt5 1mo agoThey did, but you still have to sign a contract with them to get access.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- v1z 1mo ago[dead]
- troyvit 1mo agoI use Aurora on GOS. I get that they say sandboxed Play is more secure than Aurora, but I prefer it for its lack of toxicity and absence of shitty dark patterns. I think the increased popularity of GOS is going to draw in more users like me who picked it for reasons adjacent to Graphene's original purpose, and I hope it's not too annoying for their community.
- DaSHacka 1mo agoI actually think there's already a lot of us in the 'community' as-is. I personally describe it as 'Valuing Privacy/Freedom over Security'. One pretty clear example of this is how they don't recommend using FireFox Mobile and F-Droid, both of which I use regardless because I'm not willing to put up with worse privacy/usability tradeoffs in the name of (imo 'hyper-')security. I think it's fine the mission of the project isn't directly aligned with some of us, though I can tell we often get on the core contributor's nerves lol
- megagpt5 1mo ago[flagged]
- ysnp 1mo agoI have mentioned F-Droid many times in the official Matrix before they moved to Discord and not been banned. You might be misunderstanding what actually happened or have not asked the moderators why someone was banned.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- grapheneos 1mo agoNo one has been banned from our chat rooms for mentioning F-Droid. That's a completely fabricated claim easily disproven with a search. There are a massive number of discussions about it where people often disagree about it. GrapheneOS has official chat rooms on Matrix and Discord to provide people with multiple options. We also have semi-official Telegram and SimpleX groups.
- skeledrew 1mo agoI've been stuck with unupdated apps because Aurora hasn't been working for me for a while. A few of them have been nagging me to update. I have everything Google disabled or removed, and no I won't reenable any of it. Also I use anon strictly on Aurora, and no I won't login with my Google account; haven't logged in on a phone for over 8 years now and I have no intention of breaking the streak.
- g-b-r 1mo agoFor a while as in more than a few weeks, when the current issues began? Have you looked for help? It sure isn't because of any Google component being disabled
- Markoff 1mo agoI had last successsful update on August 26, which I wouldnt call for a while, tried yesterday, I've got error messages everyone mentions today I bothered to try various anonymous Aurora accounts and found finally the one working (like 5th in row) and updated the apps, I can live with updates once a week, not exactly sure what is OP doing I mean if they are really rate limited just give me waiting time, I don't really care whether I have to wait in queue for an hour if it will update the app later without my intervention btw. I am not using graphene, find it too paranoid for my taste, though I use my phone without google account for like 10+ years and current phone is first where I have (not disabled/have preinstalled) google play services
- g-b-r 1mo agoUnfortunately Google doesn't return a waiting time, and the limits are probably high enough to be irrelevant for normal users (although I've seen articles of it happening on the Play Store, over the years).
- denzen 1mo agoUsing lineageos on an old samsung without any google services, I guess this would impact many "degoogled" users as well
- nosioptar 1mo agoRunning LOS on some kind of oneplus. Aurora hasn't worked right for the most part for a year due to device attestation shit. I'm meh on it. Not being able to install the shit from play store isn't such a bad thing. It is lame as hell that Google is doing their damndest to make apple look user friendly.
- einpoklum 1mo agoUnfortunately, it is not uncommon for providers of apps you may want/need only put them on the Google store. Example: ProtonVPN.
- ChrisArchitect 1mo agoTitle is: Aurora Store returns a “&$Server busy, please try again later.” error
- ChocolateGod 1mo agoSo an app that uses an unofficial API broke when that API changed? Not news nor "blocking".
- berkes 1mo agoWhat is an "official API"? Honest question, because AFAIK there's no guarantee or (legal) requirement to support any API. Whether that's fully documented, has SDKs or whether it's something reversed-engineered doesn't matter WRT the support the company owning the API is supposed or required to give. Or am I wrong there?
- g-b-r 1mo agoAn official API is an API described in official documentation and explicitly open to the public, an unofficial one is one not documented publicly and only meant for the company's products.
- g-b-r 1mo agoNo API changed. They just, almost for sure, decreased their rate limits. It affects using Aurora Store "anonymously" because that means using shared accounts, so far higher activity per account. It's possible they're also detecting contemporary usage of the same account. But there's a slight chance that it's just due to someone abusing the accounts outside Aurora Store.
- everyday7732 1mo agoIf it's rate limits, I wonder if Aurora Store could just download and mirror the apk for the top 40 most popular apps (probably >50% of their downloads) and serve that mirror to most Aurora Store users who click the "download" button? Then for less popular apps they can use the old system.
- g-b-r 1mo agoThings along that line could indeed be a way to lessen the problems
- ranger_danger 1mo ago> Aurora uses burner account for anonymous login. looks like their account pool is flagged This seems like it was destined to get banned somehow... and I don't think it means that the store itself is blocked, just the pool of accounts they (ab)use.
- grapheneos 1mo agoGoogle account sharing is disallowed by their terms of use. They're getting better at detecting and banning it. Aurora Store still works as a Play Store client but the approach they've been using to bypassing a need to create an account was destined to get blocked as you've said. We've been warning it would likely be increasingly blocked for years. It took longer than we expected to reach this point.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- _leom 1mo agoThis happened to me but then got fixed the day later
- shevy-java 1mo agoGoogle becomes more and more evil by the second now.
- hluska 1mo agoThat’s quite the conclusion to derive from a Gitlab issue. Do you mind sharing your thought process or was that just a knee jerk reaction without any reasoning behind it?
- lenerdenator 1mo ago[flagged]
- catlikesshrimp 1mo agoAOSP is still open. The problem is nobody wants to bear the (monumental) cost of polishing and convincing brands to allow installing it in THEIR devices. Google was motivated back then for creating an alternative and openness was a good bait.
- lenerdenator 1mo agoThe fact that no one wants to bear the cost to pre-load it on devices, when combined with the fact that it's not nearly as easy to install OSes on mobile devices as it is on most laptop/desktop/server machines, means that it might as well be closed-source. The point of software is to be executed. If I don't have a good way to execute the software for its intended purpose, I have a collection of ones and zeros, and nothing more. The window to have a real open mobile OS is starting to close. If there is to be a meaningful change, it must happen soon.
- grapheneos 1mo agoIt's much easier to install another OS on smartphones supporting it well, not harder. https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web
- lucb1e 1mo agoThis is exactly why I switched to Android. Running any Linux binary with just a small bit of patchwork to get Xorg running (this was before Wayland) felt like magic. So much power in your pocket, I could plug a keyboard and display into the device and use it as a computer! And internet-connected 24/7! Coming from a literal Nokia where I made some web-apps for the javascript-supported browser (that was already a major leap for a mobile phone), it blew my mind. The sole reason Android blew up is the endless possibilities developers saw (starting with the device manufacturers of course). Now the developers are here, the competitors haven't been competing because who cared about Firefox OS or Windows Mobile even back in 2014, and so Google can do whatever
- ssernikk 1mo agoI maintain my grandmothers phone, which comes down mostly to just updating WhatsApp once in a while. Obviously she doesn't have a google account, so I've installed her AuroraStore. It's a shame that there is no official way to install apps on android without a google accout[1], since it's a basic functionality, just like calls or a web browser. [1] For obvious reasons I don't want her to download apks from the internet.
- catlikesshrimp 1mo agoI am in the same boat. Keep in mind that you are trusting both google and meta. At least you can update whatsapp once every three months (for now)
- alt227 1mo agoIs it not possible to just download the updated whatsapp apk from some online source? That is the benefit of android after all, side loading is still possible relatively easily.
- iAMkenough 1mo agoI'll be your random online source if you want. Just give me a few days to work on an APK for you to download and install.
- crtasm 1mo agoHow do you plan to get Meta's private signing key so Android will allow it as an update?
- iAMkenough 1mo agoI’ll take the same approach Smarsh/TeleMessage uses to load modified WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram APKs on U.S. federal agency devices. Grandma doesn’t care if it looks like an update or not.
- 1mo ago
- erikvanoosten 1mo ago[flagged]
- tentacleuno 1mo ago[flagged]
- g-b-r 1mo ago[flagged]
- tentacleuno 1mo ago[flagged]
- g-b-r 1mo ago[flagged]
- ysnp 1mo agoThey (GrapheneOS development team) live and breathe the principled stance you seem to be describing. They are staunchly against authoritarianism and mechanisms that are vulnerable to government coercion which is why they promote Android IAR and criticise Play App Signing for being mandatory. I have understood their position to be that software is not automatically secure because it is open source, but being open source is one of the best ways to ensure to maximise attack resiliency (they believe in kerchoff's principle, shallow bugs, collaboration as a pragmatic help to get there not taken for granted or a guarantee). You'd probably be interested to know the founder once proclaimed publicly that they would never work on proprietary software. Don't pay too much heed to how community members frame things, they are human and get things wrong in service of trying to reduce conversation to specific facts and technical assurances instead of discussing the bigger picture.
- grapheneos 1mo ago
- krunck 1mo agoYep broken on my /e/OS device too.
- thataccount 1mo ago[flagged]
- zoobab 1mo agoFrom bad to worse.
- okokwhatever 1mo agoSadly I'm gonna have to migrate again to an ios device...
- gruez 1mo ago/s?
- grapheneos 1mo agoAurora Store still works fine without the default enabled account sharing feature. Google hasn't blocked using Aurora Store as an alternate Play Store client but rather account sharing. By default, Aurora Store violates the Play Store terms of use by sharing accounts. That's what's being detected and blocked. Aurora Store isn't one of the main recommendations from GrapheneOS for obtaining apps. It's mainly useful as a workaround for installing Play Store apps requiring the device or strong integrity level for their Play Store listing. It would be better to find another way to deal with this.
- westurner 1mo ago[flagged]
- Ajedi32 1mo agoOn F-Droid that's just the entire store.
- theandrewbailey 1mo agoLooks like I might start using Aptoide again. I was using it back when I was running de-Googled LineageOS. What's the consensus on it vs. Play Store or F-droid? https://en.aptoide.com/ https://en.aptoide.com/
- functionmouse 1mo agoPlay Store and F-Droid are both official software repositories. I'm not confident the same can be said for Aptiode.
- tentacleuno 1mo agoI'm sure I got malware from there, once - it seems rife with illegitimate apps.
- cf100clunk 1mo agoFor F-Droid apps I don't use their app. I use Neo Store with the Guardian and IzzyOnDroid repos.
- welwala 1mo agoAnnoying but this kinda thing happens every 6 months or so. Sometimes Google starts throttling, other times doing some API checks. Every time the Aurora guys figure out a way around it. They're our heroes <3 Even this particular error ("Server busy, try again later"). I've been seeing over the past weeks but then a few days later it worked again. I'm not too worried. It also happens or me right now indeed.
- Markoff 1mo agoyeah, nothing new really, last update I had on august 26 without issues, tried yesterday, had issues, so today switched couple of accounts until it worked, been using aurorastore for many years and in the end I don't really care whether my apps won't get updated anyway, only app which will start bitching about being outdated is whatsapp, which can be for now downloaded directly from whatsapp without playstore (I have also telegram as backup which also allows direct APK download) so not too worried even if Aurora was down for couple of months, I don't use any banking/payment apps in my phone for a reason
- hoshi73 1mo agoInstalling apps from Aurora Store still does seem to work, although only occasionally. It is more likely that Google is deploying a new API schema on its Play API endpoint that the app doesn't know how to parse correctly yet.
- g-b-r 1mo agoThey'd cripple older versions of the Play Store if they did that, very unlikely
- meehow 1mo ago[dead]
- nfriedly 1mo agoAuroraStore is/was really nice for running purchased games on Android-based game consoles (Retroid Pocket, Ayn Odin, etc.) because a lot of games seem to be incorrectly marked as incompatible with those devices. Play Store won't let me install them, but AuroraStore will, and most of the time they work fine after that. For example, I have Balatro running on my Ayn Thor this way.
- heliskyr2 1mo ago[flagged]
- t1234s 1mo agoAnyone have issues getting Waymo app to work on Graphine OS?
- tsoukase 1mo agoPlease add to the title "... and all other degoogled devices", which are many orders of magnitude more than GOS: almost all Huawei devices (degoogled out of the box), custom Roms, rooted and all non-logged in. I am a non-GOS hurt victim.
- rpaddock 1mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- grapheneos 1mo agoThe title is incorrect as a whole. Aurora Store wasn't blocked and GrapheneOS has no specific dependence on it for installing Play Store apps. Shared accounts are being banned and Aurora Store uses those by default but it still works. Sandboxed Play Store and Aurora Store are both still available as options for installing Play Store apps on GrapheneOS.
- grapheneos 1mo agoAurora Store still works fine without the default enabled account sharing feature by creating an account for this purpose. Google hasn't blocked using Aurora Store as an alternate Play Store client. What's happening is that they're getting better at detecting and banning shared accounts. Account sharing was disallowed long before Aurora Store started using it as a way to bypass the need to make a Google account for the Play Store. Enforcement against account sharing has been increasing over time and we've been warning people they shouldn't rely on this continuing to work for years. It took longer than we thought it would to reach this point so our warnings were quite early. GrapheneOS supports installing the standard Play Store app as a regular sandboxed app without special access. For people using sandboxed Google Play, we recommend the sandboxed Play Store for obtaining apps only published on the Play Store. That doesn't mean we recommend obtaining apps from the Play Store as the best option. We prefer people getting developer signed builds of apps, ideally through an app store with enforcement of standards such as a minimum API level and better enforced policies against abuse than the Play Store. Accrescent is very promising. There will hopefully be more serious Play Store alternatives to replace what it used to provide prior to them phasing out developer signed builds and beginning to gate access to apps. On GrapheneOS, Aurora Store is mainly useful as a way to work around the Play Store having a way for developers to restrict their Play Store listing from devices not passing the Play Integrity device and strong integrity level.
- gpvos 27d agoWhat currently works for me: settings (top right) -> accounts (icon to the right of the user name (likely "Anonymous")) -> triple dot menu (top right) -> Refresh all accounts. You may need to refresh a few times, or refresh again after a few updates.
- guilhas 22d agoGot this at the airport Just after paying for a ticket in the Ryanair website "we are going paperless so if you want the boarding pass, you need the app" what about PDFs you might ask? That is not good enough apparently I got no Play store, and Aurora was not working, luckily Apkmirror/f-droid/Universal installer saved the day In the end I could also claim the app was not working and get a paper at the desk But the present is here "everything is easy!" You just need a google/apple, with 100 apps, 200% battery, and loose internet for a minute you are not a valid citizen anymore